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No. 110770

I am a "manly" female. I was a tomboy growing up. When I was a child I hated wearing dresses, I always felt stupid or that I would be ridiculed for wearing them. In elementary school I insisted on wearing "boys" clothes, even boxer shorts, and my parents went along with it. In middle and high school I wore pretty "gender neutral" clothing, but I was heavily into the punk scene so it was still strange clothing by average standards.
Now I'm an adult and I've tried to ignore my past and embrace femininity.
I dress pretty basic, just jeans and shirts.
I am struggling as an adult female though. I have no female friends and I don't know how to make any. I have not had any since I was a child, and back then it was forced friendship and not genuine. I have not even had a single friend for many years. The only "friends" I make that I can be myself around, are men who either want to be in a relationship with me (but I refuse, so the friendship dissolves), or men who I enter a relationship with (but I am never happy in).
I feel like I can only relate to men, but I cannot be friends with men, because men only want to fuck women.
I feel like friendships between women are not and will never be as deep or meaningful as friendships between men. I understand that this is something I will never experience, and it fucking hurts me so much.
I feel I am experiencing gender dysphoria, however I will absolutely never transition or put it out in the open.
I just don't understand what is happening in my mind, but I feel like there may be some kind of childhood trauma that I cannot trace.
Can anyone offer any help as to why I feel this way, or should I go straight to a psychiatrist? I am now 28, and I am in so much emotional pain. I feel my biological clock ticking away and I don't know where to even start with my problems.

No. 110771

How can you judge the quality of female friendships when you admit to never having had a deep one yourself? It doesn't sound like you're dysphoric over your body either, just unable to form friendships or unhappy with gender roles/expectations.

I honestly think you should just go to a psychiatrist. We can't diagnose you over the internet without more context.

No. 110772

Does your internalized misogyny really deserve a whole thread? We have vent threads, confession threads, advice threads, dumb question threads, even the gender crit thread would be better for this shit.

No. 110773

I actually tried to delete it to ask an advice thread but it's been over 30 minutes.

No. 110775

25 year old Tomboy
I don't wear girl clothes at all,have relatively short hair and I haven't wore make-up even once
This had been kind of a road block in attracting guys. often times thinking I'm gay.
even now my brother and sister in-law often "joke" that my husband is gay because I look like a man
have about 4 friends total(3 girls and 1 guy)

No. 110776

maybe a mod can move it

No. 110798

Male friendships are superficial af anon. They mostly revolve around playing games and bitching about something/someone. Males don't share their deep dark feelings and struggles with their friends, they use reddit or greentext as cope. It's part their socialization, but also part their incapacity to altruistically empathize. Male camaraderie is strongest when they collectively hate on something, that should speak volume about their relationship habbits.
I have literal trauma from being surrounded by narc women and I can still recognize how amazing sisterhood can be just from interacting with this catty ass board alone. Don't have weird expectation/apprehension, women can pick up on that. Like anons said, get some therapy fam.

No. 110800

I can kinda relate to you, anon. However, I have come to realize that the issues I experience with making female friends are an issue within myself, not inherently because of other people.

I grew up with a very narcissistic BPD mother and eventually had an even more narcissistic stepmother. In my life, women have been sources of instability, chaos, and danger. Because of that, it is very hard for me to trust and become emotionally attached to other women.

Like other anons mentioned, it is probably best that you seek therapy so you can better understand these feelings, which probably do route back to your childhood.

No. 110801

Friendship is absolutely beyond sex. But true friends are difficult to find. Pointless if you are male or female.
I have female friends and I love to have deep talks with them about live, it odds, its funny moments, people they meet. I do talk about politics with them, but this talks are less common than the talks I have with male friends. Males use to talk about things that they would change if they were in the position to do so - and it seams they imagine it while talking. The imagined progress makes them happy.
Its way less about people they meet. Actually never about other males. And even with the nicest guys, they get superficial talking about girls with other men.
But I don't find a big difference in males and females if you get to know them in person.
Of course, there are people so bond to stereotypes, there own personality becomes just a shadow. But this is true for males and females.
The one thing I hardly find in females is this "I would die fighting with you!", which somehow is an unspoken but present promise in a male relationship.
Thuogh males clearly appriciate sex in realtionships with females, if they are smart enough to see the person behind the body they may still be interested in beeing with you - but at this point it is an reduction and still: If they can have both, they will allmost allways go for it.
This could be one reason why you alre lonely: All male friends you stick to have girlfriends - and girlfriends do not tend to like to see their men with another girl - no mater if you are a tomboy or not.
But this are just my experiences.
I am german, so I live in a open society. The city I am from has over a million people. I live in a shared flat with changing roommates since … SOME years, people from all over the world. I am a OR-7 (3 deployments - easy ones, please no chears), a medic and a scientist.
I have a wide angel - but surely no full view.
AND I tend to see the best in other persons.

No. 110821

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I understand the problem. Also a very ''masculine'' woman and I have given up on trying to pretend to be girly. Though I don't feel like it really takes away from my femininity, it is more like a different brand of femininity.

I have to say that the closest friendships I have ever had with women was with butch lesbians. I wish more of them were out there, because they are absolutely great to hangout with. Sure they might still be sexually interested, but at least they are a lot more respectful than men and don't treat you like a piece of meat (as frequently as men do). Problem is though that despite me being straight, their girlfriends often worry that I'm a threat.

Being platonic friends with straight men is just impossible, they will always try to poke and prod to get you to sleep with them, even if they aren't particularly interested in you. They will just take whatever they can get. They will ruin the relationship by eventually getting frustrated that you don't want their penis and they will bitch about being friendzoned almost universally. Gay non-flamboyant men who aren't mysoginists can be good friends, but those are difficult to find.

No. 110855

butchy femme and soft butch should be switch imo. tight leggings are more femme to me

No. 110978

>I feel like I can only relate to men, but I cannot be friends with men, because men only want to fuck women.

>Being platonic friends with straight men is just impossible, they will always try to poke and prod to get you to sleep with them, even if they aren't particularly interested in you.

I'm friends with men and they don't want to fuck me, should I be worried?

No. 110979

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i relate to this very hard except i present a lot more femme nowadays. I remember buying my first bikini or pair of heels being very embarrassing and "not like me" since I was labelled a tomboy my whole life.

I also struggle with female friendships.. I have a few online and I love having sweet caring and relatable people to talk to but guys are a majority in my life, esp irl. It sucks because a lot of them that I become close to develop feelings for me and idek why because I don't lead them on and I used to have a relationship of several years.

Sometimes I wish I was just born with a dick so I could fully be friends with people who share the same hobbies, humour, etc. I don't think I experience dysphoria but ever since I was a child I thought.. maybe something went wrong in the womb. It didn't help that as soon as puberty hit guys could never see me as one of them. It doesn't help now that I like to take care of my appearance and try to buy more "womanly" clothing (I haven't known how to dress myself for 20 years) so I kind of resemble a normie but have the social autism of an incel.

No. 110985

Can you read minds? Even if they haven't explicitly told you, if you don't look like a mountain troll, they have imagined having sex with you. If you gave them a shot, they would take it.

No. 110986

NTA but I'm also friends with quite a few males. Some of them are gay but I don't think that even the straight ones are into me. A lot of my straight male friends are actually model-hot (hell, two of them are even actual models) and their taste in girls differs from what I look like. I'm average looking, can look like a solid 7,5 if I put myself together but even then, I'm such a non-flirtacious, always dressed in baggy clothes woman and like…my friends have the option to fuck 9/10 and 10/10 cuties so…

No. 110988

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They won't date you, but men think differently from women. If they can fuck you once, they will do so, you don't need to be a 9/10 or 10/10 for that even if they are very attractive themselves.
Ever wondered why men in a relationship with attractive women will cheat with an uglier woman? She was simply available, that's all. Men don't work like women. They will take what they can get.

No. 110997

nta and slight derail, but I wonder if men had the same pressures to stay chaste/monogamous they would? I personally am attracted to most people and would fuck around if I didn't have self-control/wasn't saving myself for a relationship. I can't necessarily hate men for being like this if they also get rewarded by society for fucking.

Honestly I'm kind of jealous.

(Also anecdotal but I have two males friends who are confirmed not attracted to me. Another almost definitely is and another is just openly horny always so I'd say he would also lmao. It's not absolute in my experience.)

No. 111007

Wouldn't I'd say. There's pressure to not fuck children but they do so.

No. 111012

If the past couple thousand years of the Bible with its fire and brimstone couldn't overcome the power of testosterone I don't really think that slut-shaming has a chance.

That said I've met plenty of men who aren't the sex-crazed lunatics that the bitter legbeards ITT describe. If they'd judge people by their character and not by their category they wouldn't find themselves surrounded by shitty people.

No. 111061

My first word of advice is to not actively seek friends based on their sex or gender. You still see "tomboys" as separate from being female in some way, but a woman's genetic makeup and personality is as numerous and varied as there are plant species or stars in the sky. Don't put yourself in a box, avoid labeling yourself. You are conditioning yourself to believe you can only relate to males because you have a "masculine" personality that deviates from femaleness. Being a tomboy is not unique, masculinity and femininity are a spectrum and are not limited to your biological sex. Almost all females have a tomboyish side. You may be more in tune with your masculine side, but that doesn't mean you can't relate to other women, or learn from each other's different perspectives.

What you're describing, about attracting men that only want sex with you, sounds like you are a codependent and attract narcissists. Low self-esteem, thinking you are an outcast to women, means tolerating bottom of the barrel men for temporary relief of loneliness. I've been in your shoes, t. ex-self identified tomboy.

Sorry about the "bee yourself" meme, but it applies here. Go to college, take a few classes in what interests you, join a club, get a hobby, etc. When you have questions about a subject or are just feeling passionate, share it with the people around you. You're bound to make good friends that way, male and female, because you have a common interest. Always try to find common ground, but respect the differences as long as it doesn't cross serious boundaries. When you have learned helplessness, you tend to engage in defeating behavior others can detect, and in your case, other women not being your friend. If you feel you can't get close, it's often your inability to detect the relationship was not going to go anywhere early on, OR you've distanced yourself without realizing it.

Therapy is a smart choice though, as you can work out these issues on a deeper level and have more lasting results.

No. 111062

>Now I'm an adult and I've tried to ignore my past and embrace femininity.
Who cares? Why does it matter whether the way you choose to dress conforms to gender roles or not? Dressing like a "tomboy" doesn't have any influence on your relationships with other women. I don't dress traditionally feminine but have almost all female friends and tend to only respect women and sometimes gay men as people. My casual straight men friends always say or do something misogynistic that makes me quickly lose any esteem for them.

No. 111103

>started reading stories online about how all your male friends would develop crushes on you
at that time I had never had a boyfriend and none of my male friends had shown any interest in me
started wondering if their was something wrong with me

No. 111105

Ok I'm really struggling with my female friends right now because I think they're annoyed I'm changing my appearance to become more "presentable/ attractive". They keep making snide remarks and idk if I should cut them lose or ignore them?

No. 111368

This is entirely up to you. Sometimes we like to project our negative thoughts about ourselves, unto others, back to us. What I mean, is we may take a comment personally that wasn't meant to be, or add a whole new layer of meaning due to insecurity. That being said, if you feel like a boundary is being crossed (they are making very clear comments about you, not just misconstrued glances), you should cut off those "friends;" they're not really your friends. Girls who are insecure in themselves will project it unto you in order to deter you from your progress. Personally, if I were close to them, I'd try to be honest with them, that what they said bothered me, and try to get to the meaning of why shitty remarks were made. Typically, there's a resolution, either apology and understanding, or they continue with their shitty behavior, in which case, cut them.

No. 111373

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Anon, it’s perfectly ok to be low key, or prefer a masculine style of dressing regardless of your sexuality. Maybe you’re meant to be a butch lesbian, and maybe you’re just a tomboyish woman. Nothing wrong with that.

Your inability to get close to people romantically or friendship wise is less with your looks and more with maybe some trauma or fear or poor socialization? I don’t know but there’s really no shame in seeing a therapist. Nobody has to know if you’re embarrassed by it and they might be able to give you better advice than here.

Good luck anon, I wish you the best.

No. 111392

Been there. (blogpost coming)
I used to be very tomboyish personalitywise and a mess of a person (poor hygiene sense, dressing with first hoodie and pants I'd found, not even combing my hair and such). The time I was beginning to "blossom" my friends would pick up any occasion to do sneaky comments about me. They told my boobs were made out of fat and the such, retrospectively I now see how they were afraid of me becoming prettier than them. That may sound arrogant, but I used to be the ugly one in the group, but when adulthood hitted, cards switched.

Aside from that, be sure it is just not poor, toxic competition and speak up to yourself. Don't let them disrespect you and talk to them. If they go on, just ditch them, you don't need them. Focus on being a strong woman you can be proud of.

No. 111394

I've been a tomboy my entire life, I still like wearing dresses and stuff, but only when it's REALLY hot out. I rarely ever wear makeup and I feel like that's mostly because I hate the oily or powdery feeling it leaves behind. Also my skin is prone to acne.

I don't think it's internalized misogyny, my best friends all throughout school were more women than men. I just think a lot of us had more stereotypical masculine hobbies, like vidya and card games. Actually, my two best friends in elementary school were the popular pretty girls everyone admired in class and they came to me whenever they wanted to talk about Dragon Ball Z and Pokemon.

I always had an equal amount of male and female friends and we all got along pretty well, maybe I rarely ever had any issues with my male friends because I'm not conventionally attractive, mostly due to having PCOS. I've had at least one male friend recently assume I was a tranny at first until I posted a video of myself talking.

The only time I ever felt I wasn't "woman enough" was in the past couple years during the troon uprising (kek). Gender stereotypes suddenly started getting pushed as truth. I didn't feel like a "real" woman because I didn't make an effort with my femininity. I felt forced to try on makeup that covered up my acne scars. That wasn't me since puberty, but suddenly I felt pressured to. I have noticed now I tend to have more female friends who don't consider themselves "cis". I hate how normalized this is becoming.

No. 111538

calm down femcel

No. 111548

There's nothing wrong with being a tomboy, I'm so scared about what this current TRA stuffis doing to girls like yourself. I think it's also really important to know people of all different types, so that you don't think that there's something wrong with yourself for being a certain way.

I know a woman who is overall quite chunky but strong, her hair is always just messily shoved into a ponytail, she never wears makeup. But she has such a confident and outgoing personality so it's obvious that she just doesn't care about her appearance, she is always talking about work or hikes or something cool she experienced. When I met her I just expected from all this that she was gay or some kind of solitary woman going her own way. I felt like a jerk when I found out that she has a sweet husband and a girly daughter that she carefully braids the hair of. I had never met a woman like that before and so I had just put my basic expectations onto her.

No. 111550

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>I don't think it's internalized misogyny, my best friends all throughout school were more women than men.
It isn't internalized misogyny to simply like what you gravitate towards, it would different if you avoided "femininity" purely out of its association with women though.
Neither makes you any more or less a women. It denies the ontological nature of a woman if you have to try to be that thing.

No. 111582

nothing she said was false tho

No. 118183

Yeah that was definitely a comment worth bumping the thread for.
Fuck off, scrot.

No. 118184

Just go see a psychiatrist anon, get the help you need. (And if it turns out you don't need any psychiatric help, then that's great)

No. 118188

Can I just say that you are not alone? I am incredibly relived to hear that someone is going through the same thing. For me I have already started psychiatric therapy and I absolutely recommend it. It will allow you to understand that the way you feel is right and how to explore yourself as a person whilst being mindful of the pressures and boundaries fucked into us by society.
For me it is this overwhelming anxiety-inducing feeling of being a complete alien in society. Like you are not trans or female but this weird hybrid of both? Its like you identify with the 'traditional' male interests and mindset but you have the literal physical body of a woman and feel 'right' in your own body.
All I can really say is that there is nothing wrong with you and you will get over this and you will one day become comfortable with who you are and where your life has put you.
There is nothing wrong with asking for help and even one session with a professional can help re-firm and explain the feelings you are having, I wish you best of luck.

No. 118517

Man, I'm in the exact same boat. I was even diagnosed with gender dysphoria and lived as a trans man for about a year. I feel you, it's lonely. But I'm happy being a woman, I'm just struggling with being this kind of woman.

No. 118543

> that the bitter legbeards ITT

Oh did you hear that anons? We're bitter legbeards apparently.

+1 NLOG points to you, hope you cash them out one day.

No. 124682

dudes dont only wanna fuck.
look deep inside yourself. be truly introspective. there is no way you didnt know they were into you given how much you claim to understand men.

Post more on lolcows girl boards. Ask for advice. It isn't that deep.

No. 124697

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Good god, the amount of snowflakes in this thread is simply astounding.

Stop trying to create identies out of what you fucking buy and wear.
You're going to center your self image around fucking fabrics and what retarded consumerist children's hobbies you engage in?

There are literally millions of women out there who are deeply intelligent and are completely captivating to be friends with. If you are unable to find them, it's probably a you problem.

No. 124700

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While intelligence could be equal. You cannot deny that it is somewhat useful to have things in common with your friends, so you have something to talk about. I don't know about you, but I don't think most people have deep philosophical discussions everyday with their friends, instead of hanging out and doing activities you both like doing.
Nevermind that a lot of women are extremely critical of other women, and would write off adult tomboys anyway. I don't agree with OP that women have shallow relationships, I'd rather say it's the opposite case.
Though I hope you can sympathize with the adult tomboys who have been thrown under the bus by all the trans activist shenanigans. Women who are made to feel like they aren't real women, because they aren't feminine. Who feel like they are excluded. Who feel like they don't belong anywhere. Nevermind if you are a tomboy and straight, so you cannot fit in a rad fem lesbian community. I don't think these people want to be special snowflakes, but the trannies have muddied the water and now everyone is confused. That is how you get 'not like other girls phenomenon', because now the binary is even more emphasized. Though instead of this being a case of pick-me cool girl, this is a straight tomboy problem. It is that dread of feeling like you are failing as a woman, because society tells us that if you aren't the epitome of femininity, you're not a real woman anymore.

No. 124704

i think you're kind of boxing lesbians in here. plenty of lesbians have straight girl friends. you just sound really closed-minded.

No. 124709

What a healthy person should base their image on? I find it very hard to define myself.

No. 124719

>I feel like friendships between women are not and will never be as deep or meaningful as friendships between men.
LOL nice try scrot now gtfo.

No. 124727

yeah as someone that's had a lot of male and female friends throughout my life, male relationships/friendships are definitely a lot more surface level than that of women. they're too scared to be vulnerable with each other.

No. 124731

This. All my male friend have come to me with their issues, beause they feel like they can talk to me on a deeper level than with their male friends. That women understand them better than their fellow guy friends. Male friendships are definitively more activity based(doing shit together), while women connect on a more personal level

No. 124742

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No. 124744

thanks for nothing tbh

No. 124746

I think you completely missed my point. I am trying to explain why an adult straight tomboy might feel like an outcast. I don't think they want to be special snowflakes, but are very confused by trans ideology. It is somewhat looked down upon for a straight woman to be very masculine and you regularly get "why won't you transition" comments.
You cannot deny that trying to enter radfem spaces as a straight woman who wishes to be sexually active with men, can lead to exclusion. Libfem lesbian spaces are out of the question, because who wants to constantly hear they would make a great man?
It is a lonely existence and you barely ever come across people who are in the same situation. It's difficult to be okay with yourself. So some troon out to get a community and friends.
Personally for me it all stems from autism, so I am screwed no matter what in the friends/romance department. But I can empathize with feeling like you failed at being a woman and not feeling like you belong anywhere. So please do not attack the anons for talking about potentially trooning out or seeing themselves as NB. They don't want to be snowflakes, but trans ideology made the definition of woman being a pretty pink princess, and I hope you can understand the struggle.

No. 124779

i guess i just don't see these radfem/transbian groups out and about irl like they are on the internet. i live in a pretty diverse, large city and i don't feel like adult groups are as cliquish as you're making it seem. 90% of people that see an androgynous woman or man are not going to immediately jump to the conclusion of them needing to transition unless you're hanging out with a bunch of 4chan teenagers irl.
your autism definitely seems like it's a hindrance in the way you think other people are perceiving you. it's really not all that deep and many friendships can be cultivated without sex,etc. ever being a topic of discussion.

No. 131030

I hate wearing makeup, I honestly feel like a failure of a woman sometimes

No. 131055

why would you feel like a failure for that? would you expect most people to enjoy the feeling of heavy silicone lotion all over their faces? probably not. no one likes that shit. all that crap is in makeup, plus mica for pigment, and it feels horrible. drying, oily, and heavy all at the same time. a literal nightmare. has nothing to do with womanhood. it's a sensory nightmare.

No. 131470

That's a good point, I never really thought of that. It's just that I feel societal pressure to wear makeup now more than ever because I can't get on the internet without being bombarded nonstop with makeup ads and videos. My ex also wanted me to wear makeup. I almost start to feel bad for not being more traditionally feminine and then I'm like wait, why? I shouldn't care.

No. 131632

I'm in my thirties and have never worn it, I'm glad that I never invested my time (or my money) on it. I don't see the payoff

No. 131633

It is very uncomfortable. Even a thin layer of foundation bothers me.

No. 131686

Anon, don't worry. I never wear make-up and I'm proud of it. The most I'll do is mascara and eyeliner on my top lid when I'm going out. I don't even care about putting it on for after work dates anymore.
I honestly have no clue how to do makeup, but I don't have interest in learning. It's bad for your skin, time consuming, and super expensive. I don't run the risk of people asking "Are you tired?" if I don't wear it, and when I do wear even the little amount I do it I look fucking awesome.

No. 132898

does anyone else ever wish they weren't so tomboyish? I feel like my masculine disposition makes life difficult for me. for example I'm straight but I don't cherish the "feminine" role in a relationship which makes relationship dynamics hard to manage. it also has to do with the way I see myself. and all of my masculine interests makes it hard to socialize with other women because I tend to have more in common with men but I crave female friendship. I just feel like my life would be easier if I was a femme. I might sound like I'm being overly dramatic but this is something I think about a lot lol.

No. 132902

>would you expect most people to enjoy the feeling of heavy silicone lotion all over their faces?

This is such an exaggeration. You don't feel the make-up on your skin. (Unless you have an unusually sensitive skin or cake various primers and layers of foundation and other complexion products on your face like nikkitutorials maybe)

No. 132927

nta but some people (me) can feel it, like I can feel chapstick/lipstick on my lips and it feels weird. plus even if you can't feel it you still know products are suffocating your skin.

No. 132934

it's not at all an exaggeration. i can't stand the feeling of makeup on my skin. i can't deal with lotions, oils, concealer/foundation, sunscreen. kind of ridiculous for you to assume everyone doesn't feel an oil, silicone, mica mixture all over their faces when it's literally reality. it's way more absurd and ridiculous for someone to insist it's normal to not feel makeup on their skin when you're literally putting it all over your skin. it's very difficult for me to wear. it's materially there and it feels very obvious for a lot of people.

No. 134021

This is like a way late reply.
>What a healthy person should base their image on?
How about principle, ideals, and virtue for one? Do you ever come in conflict fundamentally with something in life? How do you think about certain events that have happened in your life? It doesn't have to be a political party or a religion, and frankly those are imperfect choices.

If you have nothing to yourself beyond the physical, then obviously your friendships are going to be shallow and unfulfilling, regardless of gender.

No. 134022

This is just me, but I have makeup and dyed hair (incl. theater, halloween, and beauty purposes) heavily associated with bad odor. Not as in BO, but as in chemical and artificial. I can barely scroll through /snow/ and /w/ while eating.
If you think of it this way, if you define feminimity as make-up and fashion, then it's easily appropriated by drag queens and stage performers who also wear make-up and feminine fashion. Or any man that's a make-up artist. Except obviously, they're not any less men than they were before, for having used makeup. It's a consumer product for an industry.

No. 134183

I feel the same way. Sunscreen is good if you can manage it. Biore Watery essence is good and relatively cheap, but it is more of an indoor sunscreen. Hats and covering skin in general can also help to protect you.

No. 134239

Everywhere you go, tomboys get shitted on. Both being and not being GNC give me different kinds of "dysphoria".

No. 134269

Same… I hate how Tumblr snowflakey it might sound but I feel like I just don't fit in anywhere sometimes

No. 134916

I would consider myself pretty femme but I used to be a tomboy in my earlier years. Funny enough the first time I was ever told to wear makeup by was a man who was trying to groom me to look like a proper "lady" kek

No. 146038

I am not talking behalf of men but for me(as straight man) I really don't care if your true self is tomboy but actually I think it's kind combination of cute and real confidence for women, for my experience I found tomboys I met are more honest and straightforward that's make me really comfortable with them I just show my real self and I don't care if I will get accepted or not because girls always kind of test you if you are good futur partner with them with f*ing lot of mental games that I hate for the rest of men they simply lie to get over those tests when I sense there is mental game (I am highly intuitive with psychology "certificat" from internet) I completely withdrawal and I become cold, because really I am as man don't assume I want to sleep with you because simply I talk with you or share a laugh or even flirt little with you, because I like you that doesn't mean I want you or you send me signals you reject me, I don't really want you in first place, returning to tomboy I really like their feminine side sometime float and I really like the idea of being totally honest with them as they do and we can discuss real problems not talking for just sake of talking
My final words if you are comfortable with yourself then love yourself (I know you do lol)
Please don't take any offense from my words because it is just me with some experience.(USER HAS BEEN PUT OUT TO PASTURE)

No. 146041

>I’m a guy btw

No. 146049

I used to be a Tomboy for most of my childhood and teenage years, I found it way more fun to play with the guys than the girls (I still remember at my youth club the boys would play soccer and games while they would get the girls would do makeup and read magazines, I hated when the adults forced me to hang out with the girls).

It wasn't until my boobs and curves started really growing out at 14 that I started struggling to be a tomboy. My boobs would jiggle when running around, guys would stare and I felt slower.It didn't help that my grandma wanted me to wear dresses, have my hair done neatly and dress more feminine. I think I got into my feminine side when I started loving skirts when running around and got into reading a bunch of romance novels at 16.

I feel like if i was flat chested (which sometimes I wish i was) and had less curves i'd still be a tomboy now.

No. 146063

>because I like you that doesn't mean I want you
>I don't really want you in first place
Fuck you.

No. 146067

>(I am highly intuitive with psychology "certificat" from internet)
this is banner worthy

No. 146139

I swear some of you are actually retarded

No. 146151

i was a tomboy growing up but now i love wearing dresses, doing my hair and makeup, and all that and tbh i'm glad about it. i never really judged grown women who are tomboys until my last relationship. this guy's mom would burp and eat sloppily and stuff and that was when it really hit me, that's just not attractive. in fact it's kinda cringey to me. i don't even like it when men do that shit for the record. but something's particularly gross about grown women who try so hard to be like the guys. i guess, it's like, we women are blessed with this natural grace and beauty and you'd rather eschew all that and embrace the grossest parts about being a dude? the factor of doing it for male approval is definitely part of what makes it even cringier for me. at a certain point it's just like grow the fuck up. you're not a kid anymore. you don't have to do that. learn to love your womanhood. maybe i'm just backwards and retarded who knows.

No. 146157

>we women are blessed with this natural grace and beauty
this is slander against the female autists, disgusting

No. 146162

no comment
Is that only for females am I an intruder ?

It is just for "friend-zone" , most of females think every man want her and lust for her thank you sage for the ban

I have a crush on tomboyish girl and I search the internet to discover more about because I don't want to be rude with her or offense her by any mean, I immediately felt a connection in my first met and talk with her that made me wonder since, This is the only reason I wrote here I don't want to be an intruder because I am a guy, I just want to know that's all, please do not interpreter my words incorrectly I don't want anyone to get hurt or offended because I am not intended to do so… especially you @sage
I just have a crush with that person and I want to know how to deal with it correctly(USER HAS BEEN PUT OUT TO PASTURE)

No. 146171

samefag- come to think of it, being a tomboy is the highest form of male pandering.

No. 146174

>we women are blessed with this natural grace and beauty and you'd rather eschew all that
How do you eschew something you don't have?
You seem to think that femininity is natural (which is true, just not in all women), while being a "tomboy" is a performance. For us it's just our natural state, and pretending to be "womanly" is unnatural. People are different, that's all.

No. 146179

i used to think that till the last relationship i was in. agree to disagree i suppose.

No. 146180

>the factor of doing it for male approval is definitely part of what makes it even cringier for me.
breaking news: pickme loser can't fathom a woman doing something not for male approval. stop projecting lol
>learn to love your womanhood
oh, sorry, didn't know that wearing lipstick and heels and dresses is what womanhood is.
>being a tomboy is the highest form of male pandering.
right, women going against societal norms and refusing to spend their time and money making themselves look like blow up dolls for male consumption is totally male pandering.
>maybe i'm just backwards and retarded
the first intelligent thing you've said

No. 146181

i guess to elaborate there is such a thing as tricking yourself into being something you are not. and i think a lot of tomboys are doing this.

reason is i grew up in a majority male household, so i always viewed masculinity as something that is "cool" and something to look up to because that is what my older brothers were. which extended to outside social situations, i would emulate masculinity because of this perception.

then i went through a phase where i was super obsessed with performing femininity- not just appearance wise, but cooking, cleaning, etc. then i got into an abusive relationship where i realized that's not how it works. masculinity and femininity are not performed. they are inherent.

and i later got into spirituality, a lot of occult stuff that talks about accepting your true self. which is when i realized, there is the self you trick yourself into being for the sake of the acceptance of others. and there is the you who is really you. and because we are born the way we are, we cannot change our inherent womanness.

you may perceive that you lack womanhood but you in fact do not. because it's something that is inherent about having a vagina.

sincerity is very important. why do you think it's cool to pretend you're not inherently womanly? is there some group you're trying to appeal to? if so then why? are they really as cool as you perceive them to be? what is so much better about all this self deception than just coming to terms with you are who you are?

tbf i may be schizo.

No. 146182

u mad?

No. 146183

What makes you think his mom was being a slob for male approval? That's the polar opposite way to go about it, men get viscerally offended when women just talk about bodily functions like you're breaking the kayfabe of not being human too. It's probably the reverse where she stopped pretending she doesn't burp since she's old enough to have an adult son and over trying to appeal to men.

No. 146184

yes, actually, I am! anon is observant

No. 146185

because she stayed with this guy who pretended to be british after he cheated on her multiple times lmao.

No. 146186

Sounds like her cunning masterplan of being a gross slob to appeal to her man wasn't working very well then.

No. 146187

Things like make-up and cooking being for women are social constructs, anon. If you were born 300 years ago in Europe you'd think make-up, high heels, drawing on moles, big wigs and fancily styled long hair were class signifiers rather than a female thing since rich men partook in all that and the average woman couldn't afford those things (thankfully, since in those days make-up contained lead and arsenic that slowly poisoned you kek). And I presume you don't think, say, Gordon Ramsay is feminine because his life revolves around cooking.

No. 146188

I'm tomboyish and probably manlier than my potential partners. My male friend is always taking about romantic media like Dear John and I'm scratching my head like 'why do you watch this crap'? I've never had problem getting love interests. OP is wrong about male friendships being more meaningful because they're not. Men are pitiful, never talk to each other about their problems and are always making fun of serious stuff.

No. 146192

you sure sound like someone who's takes should be taken seriously, first getting ideologies beaten into you and then performing some pretend ritual stuff.

No. 146193

hey i like being crazy lmao.

No. 146195

That's friend-zoning enjoy your own poison

No. 146279

>OP is wrong about male friendships being more meaningful because they're not. Men are pitiful, never talk to each other about their problems and are always making fun of serious stuff.
this, this, this holy shit, thank you anon, I am even not a tomboy myself but someone who worked a lot in male environments but why the fuck do so many women here have male friendships so idealized?? Have you guys ever had significant male friends?? at all??? they are miserable and pathetic all the time, they drag you down, and you end up telling them what and how to more often than not.

I'm gonna get a lot of shit for this but I feel like many tomboys and fakeboys are into that because they idealize masculinity and take men for way more than what they really are (while looking on women and femininity down in the process. I swear they play some weird not like other girls narcissism shit to feel better about themselves). Understand men aren't jackshit and they don't exist to validate your worth as a manly woman, or as a person (and that being a manly woman doesn't make you better or different neither) and you'll become more confident and happier.

No. 147853

I can somewhat relate to this. I also struggle with connecting with other women. I'm somewhat androgynous but for me it's less about being a tomboy and more about not being sexually/romantically submissive. I've realized that this is basically why I feel extremely disconnected from femininity, because femininity is all about submission, it's all about being small, frail, protected, taken care of, put on pedestal as object, looking pretty, being owned and claimed blah blah. I feel like 99% of straight women are submissive and it defines their personality and world view, no matter how loudly they talk about being feminist or whatever. They all want a superior man to feel inferior to, they all are submissive in bed, they all are more into being the sex object rather than treating their man as one, they all view men as authority and are terrified of male disapproval.

I know it's pointless to even talk about this, because women just ridicule me and get angry/defensive. I've literally never in my life met a single woman who agrees or remotely understand what I'm talking about, and I know I never will. I wish I had been born in some fantasy land where gender roles are reversed. Being born as woman is curse no matter how you look at it, and it's million times worse when you are not submissive, there simply is no place for someone like me in this world. I'm not even capable of being some bdsm domme because that shit is STILL all about the traditional gender roles where the woman is the sex object of mommy-nurse or whatever.

But I don't idealize men, in fact I strongly dislike them since they all look down on me anyway and honestly only way I could be attracted to a man beyond physical level is if he was mentally like a woman.

No. 147858

I don't disagree with you in principle, submissiveness in women feels like they're throwing our gender under the bus and embarrassing us as a whole so I can't really tolerate it as a personality trait. But I can't imagine it would affect your irl interactions with anyone? Unless someone is a painful oversharer who talks about their sex life, or an EXTREMELY close friend I'd have no fucking clue if someone is submissive in bed or not. It just doesn't come up in casual conversation, it's an online thing for the most part. And I don't really see it reflected in anyone's personalities unless they're a particularly pathetic pickme. Maybe I just have normal friends, idk but even the more desperate/slutty ones don't radiate degenerate sub energy.

No. 147867

nta but although i have to agree with you that it's not a huge deal in friendships, conventions of female submissiveness in our culture definitely extend beyond what we do in bed.

the idea that a woman is supposed to be a passive object to be rescued/protected/acquired, etc. does affect how many women perceive their role in life and is often idealized by them too, i mean sure, men might've been the ones who wrote all the fairytales about passive princesses but it seems most women enjoy them too, because they want to be cared for and rescued and fought over, even if it's not exactly their choice to make. this unquestioning acceptance of norms by our friends can be discouraging for fellow tomboys and make us feel kind of alienated.

that said women are still 100x better friends and men ain't shit

No. 147870

You're right, it's just that I never really notice it in regular face to face interactions. It's omnipresent on the internet and in the media, but I never really notice it in anyone I meet or know. Actually I do have some religious relatives who are obviously into it, I'm sure it depends on the crowd.

No. 147887

Omg… someone gets it.
The only difference is that I have no problem getting along with women, unless they're the type who hate their mothers or something.

No. 147921

I love how you managed to express exactly the way I feel.
In fact, it's seeing my mom being so servile (cooking, cleaning and working) while my dad was not expected to do anything aside from doing the same hours my mom did that made me tomboyish and adamant on not pleasing men in any way.
I find that the qualities that societies ascribe to women as being the fairer sex, nurturing, emotional, having empathy, etc. did the most damage. Men and the society count on this for women to sacrifice their work, their free time, their ambitions to put others before them.
I'm struggling because I want to get rid of any trace of femininity that I have and deeply despise yet I don't want to look like a man either.
I hate men but I do wish I could enjoy the inherent position of power that they possess over women.
People are going to argue how men and women of poor social status have more in common with each other than with the people of their sex in the upper strata but I beg to differ. Men on average will always have more value in the society.
I'm also glad you brought up the subject of having difficulties connecting with other women because it's something that I struggle with as well. I can't explain the amount of hatred I feel towards tradthots enforcing submissiveness onto other women because it reminds me that there's no escape. I don't have a group to belong to. Even the feminist circles give more weight to an opinion of a man whether they like to admit it or not. And I see it too often, women backstabbing each other for the approval of men.

I'm glad I'm a lesbian but unfortunately I've only ever met bisexuals. My country isn't really lgbt friendly so I'm trying to keep a low profile.

No. 147922

> I hate men but I do wish I could enjoy the inherent position of power that they possess over women.
sorry, I meant to say the inherent position of power they have in society.

No. 147955

Yeah, it's not just about relationships although straight women do talk about their relationships a lot an that exposes the power dynamics there. But it's also about so many little things, like when I go to gym, I'm almost always the only woman there working with bigger weights (and we're not even talking heavy here) because almost all women hate the idea of looking muscular or even being physically strong, they fetishize weakness and frailty so much. You talk about books with women and they are all reading some litfic written by female author whose tragic self-insert young heroine sleeps with some middle-aged ugly professor. Or women into any fashion or sub culture remove all the "threatening" or "ugly" parts, and turn it into another watered down e-girl aesthetic and the boys get to have all the fun and cool stuff.

It's death by a thousand cuts, all so small that you feel stupid complaining about them so you just have to shut up. But the end result is that I just feel totally disconnected by so many things that are important to other women, made worse by the fact that I also have no interest in marriage or kids.

If you are a lesbian, you are lucky because I've seen lesbians online who share this feeling. Although it might be hard to find them IRL. And as lesbian, you don't have the hellish conflict of being attracted to a gender that only accepts you if you accept your position as inferior submissive bang-maid.

My mother also was the same, although she had superficially independent attitude and complained, she still wasted her life serving her husband. All the women I've known are like this to different degree, they are not full on trad (I live in progressive European country) but their talk and their actions just never fully match. A feminists are only worse than average woman, they are all about how ~empowering~ it is to objectify yourself or whatever, modern feminists are basically new class of tradthots.

No. 147988

I grew up in a conservative family/community and have always been a tomboy. My family has been trying to "fix me" from day one, but I kept fighting back even when I'd get beaten for it. Eventually they gave up. To this day I'm still not welcome to certain relative's homes and whenever I'm around family I still get nasty looks from a lot of them for how I dress and my refusal to behave more feminine. I've seen my mother and other women in my family spend thousands of dollars on my brothers and other males in the family. They excuse all of their bullshit, no matter how shitty they treat them. It pisses me off to this day.

I only had one female friend as a kid. I tried to kiss her after school one day and she punched me in the mouth, lol. After that I only had male friends because none of the girls wanted to be around me. This didn't change until university when I made friends with some straight women, but there always was a lingering sense that I didn't really belong to their group. Like I was a stray dog following them around. This became especially clear when they got boyfriends and eventually got married. Being around them became very awkward until I was totally shoved out from their lives.

Dating for me wasn't too bad, but it's messed up in a way because my girlfriend is the only friend I really have. I don't like being around males and I don't know how to connect with other women outside of a romantic way.

No. 148004

>I feel like 99% of straight women are submissive
>They all want a superior man to feel inferior to
What the fuck. The delusions, jesus christ.

No. 148051

> you don't have the hellish conflict of being attracted to a gender that only accepts you if you accept your position as inferior submissive bang-maid.

I have to admit that even with all the cons of being a lesbian, most notably the tiny dating pool and the danger of becoming a social pariah if you're out of the closet (in my country anyway), I find it miles better than being a straight woman and being aware of the true nature of men. I'm sincerely sorry because it's going to be a never ending struggle for you.

> I only had one female friend as a kid. I tried to kiss her after school one day and she punched me in the mouth, lol.
That was one of my nightmares in school because there were times when I thought that my friend had feelings for me and that I should make a move but the thought of outing myself and being rejected at the same time was utterly horrifying.

> Dating for me wasn't too bad, but it's messed up in a way because my girlfriend is the only friend I really have.

I'm so envious. While having friends is good I've noticed that a lot of people straight or not, have troubles making friends when they get older.

No. 148352

freudian slipped there gay chan

No. 149698

I feel so shitty right now. If I'm not allowed to dress how I want and look how I want there's no reason for me to be nice or show basic respect to anyone, it goes both ways!

No. 149702

>the state of this thread

You ladies need to treat yourself to a new deck and go dig for worms in the park or something. You're too high-strung.

No. 149714

Shut up, this thread is not for you.

No. 149717

> treat yourself to a new deck
a deck of new cards?
What's that supposed to mean?
> and go dig for worms in the park or something
And what does this mean?
Sorry, I'm ESL anon so I don't understand anything at all…

No. 149718

I don't know if I'll get to see my dad before xmas this year (given covid) but If I do I can see another flowery pink bottle of equally floral smelling perfume in my future.

That disconnect between 'what do women like' and 'what would my daughter like given her tastes' is always funny to me. I love him but.. dad have we met?

No. 149722

I don't get the references either. All that post did was remind me of Earthworm Jim

I loved earthworm jim

No. 149727

Any of you guys consider your brand of aesthetic and presentation as feminine? Personally, I don’t see feminism as one singular look or aesthetic, I think all women are capable of being their own type of feminine if they choose to look at themselves that way. I honestly think women who are not the “standard” have the power to redefine what femininity is and find solidarity again with each other as women.

Honestly I’m just tired of being alienated by other women because I don’t look or act a certain way. I’m not repulsive or gross or nasty in any way, I just dress and act differently. I don’t have a higher pitched voice, I don’t wear makeup, my hair is constantly in a state of an unkept nest.

I just want to be able to have more female friends without them thinking that I’m gross or that I’m some nasty predatory lesbian (I am a lesbian, for the record, just a married one) who’s going to harass them or smth. Why is making female friends as an adult tomboy lesbian so difficult?

No. 149729

>Any of you guys consider your brand of aesthetic and presentation as feminine?
Now that I think about it, the clothes I wear still look slightly feminine, they're just simple? And I rarely wear make-up.
I don't really associate feminine/masculine with men/women, they're just words to describe an aesthetic. For example: feminine - soft, frilly, masculine - edgy, more simplistic. I don't think that not wearing make-up makes you masculine, though. It depends on genetics and how you dress, and even the most "masculine" woman is still more feminine than the most feminine man, that's just nature. Women can only be androgynous at most, if they dress "masculine", because their natural features balance things out. Hope it makes sense.

No. 149735

I concur. Feminism ought to include all sorts of women, that is kind of the point of it. To me, a woman wearing "masculine" clothes does not read as masculine. It's her way of expressing herself and that categorically is feminine. She is expressing her own idea of herself as a female.

No. 149772

I'm not sure if this is what you meant but to me any aeshetic a woman has is feminine by default, it's on a woman after all.

No. 149847

Thanks for understanding, girls. I try to talk about this topic a lot in gnc women spaces but none of them seem to understand what I’m talking about and think I’m attacking their identity and saying they should all slap on a full beat and wear heels. GNC women can be so aggro and defensive on the internet. I just want all us ladies to get along and not see each other as othered because of the way we dress. It’s a false dichotomy.

No. 149854

Butch lesbian here. I wear men's clothes and don't have a feminine body. Not as in 'I'm skinny and don't have curves', but as in 'I have linebacker shoulders etc. and some overly paranoid radfems would try to clock me as male, because they think my bodytype is impossible for females.' I don't dress simple or lazy at all. I wear men's clothes, because they are generally better quality and they actually fit my bodytype. It doesn't matter what I wear, I manage to make it look masculine. Anything actually feminine ends up looking like drag and just wrong. (nothing against radfems btw, I'm one myself, but some are a bit too paranoid with trying to clock troons)

Gender nonconforming femininity exists, but there is also nothing wrong with female masculinity. So you might be a gnc type of feminine, that's cool, but that doesn't mean every gnc woman is just an alternative type of feminine.

Personally I haven't been treated like a predatory lesbian in adulthood. Sure I see irrelevant idiots online pretend like butch lesbians are literally predatory males, from both sides of the gender wars, but that's the internet. I compliment women freely, I smile at them, I haven't gotten any bad comments. More stuff along the lines of: 'Why can't men be more like you?' The more I've worked on letting myself be authentic, embracing who I am (in general, not specifically being a lesbian) and not fighting it, the more everyone around me relaxed too. People can tell when you're harboring anger or other forms of negativity. If someone would still be shitty, that's their lesbophobia problem and not mine. Why would you want people like that to be your friends anyway?

No. 149929

I understand how you feel. I've recently made a really good meet a really good female friend though. She's a programmer but also way into sewing and girly things. With my last set of male friends they wanted to date me too. I had to feminize myself for anyone to take interest in hanging around me. Then when I did people wanted to fuck me. It's a really annoying situation. Now I just hang out with people on discord.

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