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Even as a small girl I had zero interest in activities involving dolls, nursing, caring for others etc. and I knew I didn't want to have children of my own, but later on I just constantly saw examples of parents being neglectful, or abusive, or just failing at raising children to be independent adults who are able to create healthy relationships with others. So I'm definitely very biased now. I literally don't know any good parents. My good friend said once that basically all his friends have shitty parents. But they still want to have kids of their own because they believe they will be better at parenting. My mother was sure she will be better than her mother, and she was a terrible, abusive parent. My aunt has two adult children (32 and 38) but she still has to support them financially and she's constantly stressed out because of it. Their relationships fail constantly. My cousin has a 7 year old daughter who already has to go to therapy because she's traumatized by the behavior of her father. My other aunt was actually a pretty ok mom I think, just overworked, and yet her son still brings her nothing but problems, he was a gambler, she's been paying off his debts for years and she's fucking 65 years old now. She tells me I'm right about not wanting kids and 5 minutes later she tells me how much she loves her son and she has to "carry her burden". Men acting like caring partners and then doing basically nothing after the child is born. Men leaving when the child turns out to be sick. I've seen it all. And then I read all the horror stories on r/BreakingMom or just stories of people who regret having children but are too ashamed to admit it irl. The regret about having children is still a taboo in every culture. I never had any fear to overcome because I never wanted kids in the first place, but all of this made me even less interested. My only fear is that I will never find a partner who will want to stay childfree. I read about men who were ok with it at first and then they left or cheated anyway because they decided they want kids. How can you be 100% sure he won't change his mind?
>>156637>I read about men who were ok with it at first and then they left or cheated anyway because they decided they want kids. How can you be 100% sure he won't change his mind?
You can't! And you should learn to be fine with that. Look into the concept of "radical acceptance." I have a partner who is currently happy with being childfree. If he changes his mind one day, I will be okay. We could just as easily break up over a hundred different reasons, or (knock on wood) one of us might get into a terrible car accident tomorrow and we'd never be together again anyway. As much as I love my boyfriend, it's not like there are a deficit of men craving companionship if I wanted another partner. And who knows if I'd even care for one at that point; I'm quite happy being alone too. You can only control yourself in life. Worrying about what other people will or won't do is a waste of time.
Of course, take precautions and vet potential partners as best you can. Be upfront on the very first date about your stance on children. If you use apps, mention it in your profile. I got myself medically sterilized so that went a long way towards expressing how serious I was to potential partners, but in any case, have that conversation and see how the guy reacts. Ask about his long-term goals and why he wants to be child-free if he feels the same. Ask if his family is aware of his stance and what they think (sadly/stupidly enough, many people make life-changing decisions based on familial pressure alone). Don't be shy about the topic. Better to get through a potentially awkward conversation early than discover someone is a fencesitter several years into the relationship.
this is my train of thought too. this world is a fucking shitshow, I couldn't bring a child into it. the climate breakdown is the biggest reason I'm abstaining. it's not fair for future generations to inherit a dying planet.
if things got drastically better in the next ten years (serious action to combat the climate change issue. scientists confirming that we're achieving the goal of putting a stopper in it. is that even possible at this point?) then I would like a kid but I don't see that happening
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how many people do you think have kids simply because they want someone to look after them once they're old?
One of the most ridiculous reasons to breed. The people taking care of your (the general "your") geriatric ass as a parent are generally going to be the same people taking care of those without children: professional caregivers and medical workers. For every supportive family as in >>156673
example there are 20 more where the child sticks their parent in a home and maybe visits during a holiday now and then. The majority of people are not willing nor qualified to provide fulltime care to an elderly parent when they end up requiring that level of assistance. And they shouldn't have to. What if they end up estranged from you? What if they've settled down overseas? What if they just don't want to?
It's beyond selfish to have a child and then expect them to drop everything and stop living their lives to perform the physically and mentally intense labor required to care for someone in the latter stages of their life. This isn't the middle ages where 3 generations of families live together forever. If you have a kid they are free to do as they please once they're adults, which likely doesn't involve wiping down dear old mom or dad's ass when they're too frail to do it anymore. >>156676
Again, having kids is far from a guarantee of safety and security in your later years. You are generous to be that point of stability for your mother, but even if you "raised them right," there's no way to be sure a child would do the same for you. Take responsibility for yourself. Start saving for retirement so you'll have a stable source of income when you're old and can afford a quality assisted living facility.
As far as I remember I always knew I never wanted children, it was never part of my life goals, even in kindergarten when they ask you to draw yourself as a grown-up (just like marriage kek). I think I have a phobia of pregnancy as well, seeing those bloated bellies on perfectly normal bodies disturbs me so much, and I'm disgusted by all the things that come with childcare (like diapers and cleaning vomit). Don't even get me started on the short and long term effects pregnancy has on women's bodies.
I give zero fuck if people give me shit for it, my parents support my decision and it's the only thing that matters. What kinda annoys me is when people assume I hate children because I want to remain child free, which is not true. I don't mind them, I even find them cute, I just don't want to have them in my life.
Like other anons said, I would also be terrified of giving birth to a child with an incurable disease, especially if it cannot be detected in utero. Like at work the other, a customer came with his son, who yelled loudly at some point (which didn't annoy even me, I was just surprised at how loud he was), and the dad said sorry and explained that he was autistic and had no awareness of his surroundings. I felt so bad for him, not only will it be difficult to take care of him the older he gets, but also he must have gotten shit from other people if he said sorry for just a yell.
Honestly you just have to plan in advance, seek out advocacy, lawyers and assistance programs while you're still young enough. More and more people are choosing to be CF these days, there will be increasing demand for services for the elderly and specifically designed for our circumstances.
The irony is that if you have kids just to make sure you're not alone when you're old, they might feel the same and have kids too. Then they're too busy with their own family to look after their parents anyway. Being CF means I'm gonna easily be able to look after my parents as they age.
It was always weird for me that some of my friends growing up wanted to be mothers ever since we were like 10 or so. I never had grand plans, so much that at 20 I had a breakdown because my life plan basically never went past starting college. I was just like 1. survive school 2. get into a college 3. ???????. Family life was absolutely not something I wanted.
And even now that I try to imagine myself in 10 years, I really can't see myself as a mother. And my picture of a "mother" is also pretty negatively colored, there's really no "real" respect in patting women on the back sometimes for doing this sacrifice for humanity's continued existence with some roses, but still laughing at them and their misery.
I can believe that motherhood can be incredibly magical (all the hormones, a special relationship with another person), and I usually avoid "childfree" spaces just because of this misguided smugness, like they're saving the planet, even though they're still spending on useless crap like crazy and make zero ecological decisions, so it's obviously not a viewpont in their life. But I understand the general sentiment, because I also don't want to live the shitty life of a young-middle aged-old mother just because that is what I'm biologically built for, and in this age, I have a choice.
>>156800 >my friends growing up wanted to be mothers ever since we were like 10 or so
They might've just had those experiences where adults see them playing with a toy and claim that they're absolutely destined to be a great mom based on the fact that someone bought them a doll and they carried the doll gently. We imprint alot of mature expectations on little girls when they really have no business thinking about those things so young.
I remember hating both fashion dolls and baby dolls as a kid. But I liked teddy bears and a couple of my aunts would constantly comment about me having babies one day because I carried a bear around and that was 'my instinct to have kids showing' (while I'm a kid myself) I hate that shit. 30's now, childless with plans to remain that way. I still collect some plush and theres no deep meaning or great mothering instinct behind it lol
I just don't want the pain, being pregnant terrifies and disgusts me, and I just hate the responsibility of it. Shit like climate change plays no part in my decision and honestly I find it a stupid reason.>>156672
My parents are amazing people but they can't take care of their relatives bc we live in a different country. It's never a guarantee, and why would you subject you child to that misery anyway
I live in a neighborhood full of toddlers, teens and schoolkids and they're fucking obnoxious. They scream all the time, destroy other people's property, throw tantrums for no reason, my tween neighbor yells whenever he loses at Fortnite and whenever you tell them to pipe down their mother hens come at you because "he's so little, he doesn't know better~". I don't care, I'm working and it's your job to teach him better.
They're just awful little things, and I feel like parents of today are too lenient with their kids because they don't want to be labelled as abusive
If I had kids they'd annoy me a lot and I'd resent them for not allowing me to live how I want, and that's not something I'd want for my child. The only reason people think I'd make a good mom is because I know how to take responsibility and just do what needs to be done. I'm the oldest of my family so I had to babysit my little nieces in my late teens for long periods of time, and even though they were overall nice girls and loved me a lot, I still don't want to deal with all the bullshit, can't even imagine how much harder sons would be to raise.
I hate everything about the thought of pregnancy and caring for a young child. Swelling up for nearly a year until I'm a whale, spending hours in labor and possibly ripping my vagina and asshole open, being incontinent or developing autoimmune diseases afterwards (happened to my mom). Then having a child suckling at your tit constantly, cleaning up vomit, shit and piss, enduring shrieking and crying, having to bathe, clothe, feed and do everything for this worm-like creature. Thousands of dollars down the drain. Struggling to find any time for myself. Then even with dedicated attention and care, knowing your child might turn out to be an asshole and resent all the time you spent with them, develop a mental illness, stop communicating with you. All that freedom given up and time wasted when you could've spent it on yourself, for what?
The only thing I think sounds remotely good about being a parent is when the kid becomes an adult, thinking they might turn out relatively functional and have appealing interests. Then I realize that's just a friend and I can get those without having to shove them out of my vag.
And people, often men, still have the audacity to say I'd make a good mom even after going on blistering, hate-filled rants like this. Likely because they know they wouldn't be the ones doing any of the work (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/parenting/wp/2015/05/07/once-the-baby-comes-moms-do-more-dads-do-less-around-the-house
). Fuck off.
>>156637>My good friend said once that basically all his friends have shitty parents. But they still want to have kids of their own because they believe they will be better at parenting. My mother was sure she will be better than her mother, and she was a terrible, abusive parent.
I just finished reading 'The Drama of the Gifted Child' and Alice Miller says that her patients who are insistent on having kids when there is clearly still so much to work on with themselves usually do so for a few reasons:
-They want to have a child to substitute for the unconditional love they did not receive as children
-They want to 'redo' their childhood through their own children (e.g. my parents were abusive
, so I won't be) and finally feel 'complete'
-Subconscious compulsion to relive their own trauma
People pretty much never choose to have a child selflessly.
>>156678>It's beyond selfish to have a child and then expect them to drop everything and stop living their lives to perform the physically and mentally intense labor required to care for someone in the latter stages of their life.
Yeah I'm pretty sure if you have a child, you're committing to pouring your resources into them. Not the other way around.
My boyfriend's mother does this with him and he gets anxiety attacks about how she will probably invite herself to live with him one day with the expectation that he should take care of her. She's already taken from him financially, I had to teach him to draw serious boundaries with her starting now.
This is just straight up sacrificing your body for a couple years to create a blood-source to leech off of for the rest of your life. It really fucks with him psychologically. So basically- don't have kids with the intention that they'll be your caretaker one day.
Wow, those reasons point-by-point were the exact shitty explanations my boyfriend gave for wanting kids (he used to be a fencesitter).
* He wanted more love in his life (he has me + plenty of friends and a large extended family… why does he need a biological child's love specifically?)
* His father was abusive
and he literally said, "I want to have the opportunity to do better than he did, I think it would give me a sense of fulfillment." Kek to that, because >>156850
is 100% correct. I have seen him repeat the exact same abusive
behaviors his father subjected him to. I don't put up with it and draw boundaries, but a kid does not have the presence of mind to know/communicate how their father's behaviors are harmful. He would absolutely make similar mistakes and hasn't even gone to therapy to address his lingering issues.
* Reliving his own trauma, this is again something I've seen him repeat in our relationship and he doesn't even have the self awareness to recognize it.
It really is scary how oblivious people are to their own problems, and his reasons were completely selfish. Not once did he talk about how he wanted to give his time/attention/money/health for the sake of a child, it was all about what he would receive from it. I, the staunchly childfree one, have had more interaction with kids through volunteering and work and yet he was so excited by the concept thanks to his rose-colored glasses. It's no wonder a higher percentage of men want kids than women, they're delusional and don't need to consider the huge amount of repercussions like us.
>>156963>It's no wonder a higher percentage of men want kids than women, they're delusional and don't need to consider the huge amount of repercussions like us.
Men aren't just delusional, they're CLUELESS. My bf didn't know:
-Babies cry most times you put them down for the first couple years
-Babies randomly throw up all the time
-What the terrible 2's are
-That some children use diapers until they are 3 and beyond
Every time we are around my nieces and nephews, he will think my siblings are just bad parents. I'm like, "No this is actually this is very normal for their development. Kids take until about 5 to even comprehend the link between behavior and consequences."
I think girls are expected early on to look after younger kids while the boys get to go out and play, so it's all just mysterious to them. They rarely have to babysit or anything like that.
Right now he thinks he's "just not ready for it yet." I'm like, mhmm, you're 30. So tell me, when are you going to be ready for screaming, crying and years of sleep deprivation? 35? 40?
inb4 he leaves me in a decade for a clueless 23 year old.
I totally relate, my dude kept saying that parenting gets so much easier after the first year or so when kids start to walk. Based on what experience of yours bro? You mean when they're able to remove themselves from the safety of a crib and you have to worry about them running into table edges, falling down stairs and pulling pots of boiling water onto themselves? Yeah, so much easier!
He barely has the patience to deal with our cats most of the time. CATS. The worst things they do is puke up a hairball now and then, play-fight around the house and meow like maniacs when they're hungry. And you want a fucking human child when you can barely handle that? The level of self deception was insane.
I genuinely don't care if he leaves me in a couple years, lmao. It would suck initially, it's been fun and pleasant in a lot of respects but I know I can find happiness on my own now. I pity the woman who would have to not only endure all his current issues but also have a child thrown into the mix. I cannot remotely imagine. If that ends up being what he wants again later on he is totally free to leave and find it without me, because being a parent would make me resentful and miserable and destroy the relationship we have.
Me! Tbh anon I was the same and after reading so many horror stories from those subs I was prepared to have to present an entire folder full of studies and research papers in order to get approved for sterilization. In fact, I picked a gynecologist from a list covered by my insurance, asked for sterilization and he (yep, a male doc even) granted approval the same day. Couldn't have been easier. I'm not saying a more difficult situation won't arise, but don't psych yourself out before anything happens. I am older than you (29) and I know a lot of doctors are cautioned against sterilizing younger patients because they don't want people coming after them due to regrets, but there are plenty of younger women who have made it happen as well. If you encounter issues with one doctor, just move on to the next and don't let it defeat you. In the end they're all just providers offering you, a paying customer, a service.
You may want to request a bilateral salpingectomy rather than a tubal ligation. I thought I wanted a tubal at first as well, but a bisalp is more efficient because it entirely removes the fallopian tubes rather than just cauterizing them. There's literally no chance you will ever get pregnant this way. The issue with tubals is not so much that burned tissue can grow back, but improper technique where a doctor might think they've completely sealed off the tubes but in fact some portion gets left open. This increases the risk of ectopic pregnancies where an egg implants in the tube rather than the uterus and can be life threatening. I didn't want to deal with even the smallest danger of that.
Removal of the fallopian tubes also provides a significant decrease in the risk of ovarian cancer (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3671016
) and so if you're not going to use them anyway, why not take the opportunity to prevent a deadly disease in the process? The procedure takes maybe 10 minutes longer than a tubal with one extra incision; it was worth it to me.
I'm a nanny and while I love my job it has completely reinforced my decision to not have kids - and the children I work with are extremely smart and well behaved so that's saying something. I work two 12 hour days a week and I can't imagine doing that every single day. Want to sleep in? Sorry, kids are waking up at 6 A.M. and that's that. Alone time? But Mommy, I want to play cars! Quiet? Your kid now has 50 questions about the nature of poop. Maybe you can just sit…Nope, kids need help putting on clothes, getting their homework done, and meals have to be made. I really cannot imagine living with barely any time for myself, my hobbies, my partner, to travel or do spur of the moment activities, for my whole identity to become that of "mom." The parents I work for are doctors and I have no clue how they do the amount of work they do then come home and do even more.
Then of course you've got the financial aspect, the general state of the world, the physical and mental symptoms that come with pregnancy and giving birth, the potential of giving birth to a child with some sort of illness or disorder (I personally have mental health issues I don't want to pass down), oh and the fact that if you have children with a man, even if he's the most feminist dude on Earth, you will guaranteed be doing the majority of the child rearing.
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even though I like the idea of just getting rid of my uterus and never having a period again, I'm afraid it'll fuck up my healthhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6511081/
Yeah don't do that anon, unless you have a (non-sterilization related) medical reason. That's why the other methods mentioned above are superior. The paths to the ovaries are blocked/gone, but you still have your hormones and regular periods.
Believe me, I relate and would've loved to stop my periods well before menopause… if the side effects weren't so horrible.
It's pretty obvious that removing organs should be a last case scenario, and only if it's a malfunctioning organ anyway. But iirc tubal ligation doesn't mess with their hormone output, but it can - in some cases - fix itself, which sounds like a bad time.
I was thinking about sterilization, but in my country you're not eligible for it unless you're over 40 or already had 3 kids, and going abroad to get it done costs a whole lot of money that's unrealistic for our third world salaries. If they could get away with it, I'm sure they'd even make abortion illegal, but after seeing what's going on within our friend Poland, I'm sure they're a bit more cautious. So I just chose the oldest preventive method: abstinence. Because apparently that's the only thing they allow for now, until Orban starts assigning us as personal prostitutes for the Nation.
My older sister does it to me.
She's finally settling somewhat into motherhood, but the process has been really depressing to be honest. She had to kill off a lot of dreams once she realized she would have absolutely no time for herself. Which was really difficult for her. She kept saying, "I know this was my choice, though, I know this was my choice."
Yesterday her husband said, "Maybe I can take the kids in a stroller, and we can take a walk together when you go to vote." I saw her get visibly panicked. She said, "NO! Do you know how long I've been looking forward to this?"
I mean sis has been dreaming about doing the most mundane thing- voting- so she can just do something totally by herself for 30 minutes.
In the face of all that she'll tell me, "Oh but you're totally going to have kids- I know I make it look hard but it's SOOOO worth it." I've been insistent that I'm happy for her, but it isn't the life for me. Still she straight up tried giving me baby books the other day. I'm like… do you require me to have children to help fulfill your obvious state of denial?
Never, really, because I just simply don't disclose my stance on kids, not even to my parents, because I know it would be a shitshow, and they wouldn't believe me.
I'll mention how I don't like little kids sometimes when it comes up. My mom tried to get me to take over watching a little toddler boy she was looking after in the afternoons, because she found a full-time job. We were arguing for hours, because she didn't believe that I don't like spending hours playing peek-a-boo, wouldn't know what to do in a crisis situation, and kids just generally don't like me. Of course it always ends in "WELL WHAT ABOUT YOUR FUTURE KIDS? WILL YOU NOT PLAY WITH THEM?" and I just gave some evasive answer as always.
People (especially other women) like to say something to the lines of "I feel bad for your future kids" in a joking manner, or just talk about you having kids as if it's a given fact. I feel like it's easier to just stay silent.
I've been good at avoiding this. I have a look that screams lesbian so my older gossipy coworkers are probably reluctant to mention babies to me based on that alone. We're in a slightly homophobic country so I guess they don't want to corner me about my private life (ain't even gay, just look it lol) It's my free ticket to never having to discuss babies
Never had pressure from my parents because I lost my mom as a teen and tbh my dad almost seems like he regrets parenthood or realises he wasn't quite up to the job himself… Neither me or my sibling ever want kids and my dad doesn't appear to give a fuck. He's not a kid person and I feel like he only had us because that's what a 'normal mapped out life' looked like to him.
>>157069>her adult daughter (30ish years old) had committed suicide
Christ. I snorted at this twist, sad it would’ve been too brutal to remind her of that little factoid.
>Life would be so lonely if people never had children!
My ex played the “but you’ll be so lonely” card. We broke up for other reasons but in the process when I reminded him about my stance and said I might just stay alone (because I was exhausted from the relationship drama) he was all, “Oh nooo, that’s so sad, I can’t imagine you being all alone, please tell me you’ll find someone and have a family!” I looked at him like he’d grown three heads. Me being able to feel comfortable alone was a huge
development due to a bad case of codependency I’d finally gotten over. It took so much therapy, mental struggle and time to see myself as a whole and complete person as I am. He knew this. I was (and am) super proud of the fact that I’d feel happy simply being in my own company, yet the misogynistic asshole could only conceive of my being fulfilled by finding another partner and breeding.
It was shockingly hilarious in a way, to know he believed I needed someone to be happy yet he himself had put me through such hell. I believe he likely intended to try and diminish my efforts in that moment, but I just shook my head and said I’d be fine on my own terms, thanks for the “concern.” Funny resolution: I did end up with another (child-free) partner now who treats me 100x better while he is still fat, alone (both childless and partnerless) living with family and at 10 years older than me, so all that’s unlikely to change.
Had this from a lot of people, but one of the most annoying and weird is when my mom says I should give her some grandkids so she can raise them. “Literally you can just have them then give them to me, teehee!” I know she’s (kind of) joking but I don’t find it funny in the least. One of the major reasons she wants me to have kids is indeed so she can play and interact with them, even though I’ve repeatedly told her how much I hate the thought. Which is when she hits me with the typical, “You may think that now but everything changes when you have that baby in your arms.” Kay mom, then please explain all the regretful and flat out abusive
parents that experience this miracle of birth then do everything they can to get rid of their spawn. Pretty big gamble to assume everything changes at that moment when you can’t return the kid or anything if it doesn’t come. Talk like that is why so many people who shouldn’t be parents make stupid decisions. It’s exhausting and I try to avoid the topic with her at all costs.
I've never been too bothered, like I mentioned earlier that my parents didn't care and they never shamed me for this. I've had some random people disagreeing with me, especially during my younger years (as in "you'll change your mind when you grow up"), way less now that I'm 27.
I remember in high school a teacher said I was selfish because my non children would not be paying taxes (?????) and recently a co-worker, mother of two, said it was sad that I would never have some. I talked with other co-workers in the same age bracket as mine (late millennials) and none of us, men and women, want any children.
Sometimes I get customers saying things like "you'll see when you'll have kids" and I don't bother correcting them, they don't mean harm when saying it.
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Damn, today I found out they made 4chan clone for coping roasties. It feels surreal and stinks of reddit. Enjoy your decades of loneliness, cats and wine. Thats about all I wanted to say, bann me now(USER HAS BEEN PUT OUT TO PASTURE)
Similar experience here. Not to humblebrag but most of this thread isn't relatable to me. Strangers and exes have made more comments about my theoretical children than my actual family has.
I can tell my own mother really regretted having me, but the one good outcome from that is that she never pushed me to have children and told me she'd be okay if I didn't.
Considering how she forced me to get an abortion as a teen (a good call in hindsight) I think it's safe to say she doesn't care. We don't talk anymore for other reasons, but I'm glad she never pressured me in that way. In fact I want to say she likely didn't want me having children because she never wanted to experience a baby again even as a grandma, in the way she fell back on her parents for help.
The only time children ever came up from her was as a threatening reprimand like, "JUST WAIT UNTIL YOU HAVE KIDS SO YOU CAN APPRECIATE ME MORE!!!" I dunno, I don't feel particularly maternal, likely due to my own damaged bond with my mom.
Do I really wanna roll those dice and potentially continue the disenfranchised cycle? Anyway, my mom revealed through bits and quips that she expected me to take care of her in old age hahahaha.
Joke's on my mom cause I refuse to have a relationship with her now, so she better hope my vulture cousins can be bribed into taking care of her poopy ass if she promises them something in the will.
That really sucks anon. I can't stand parents who only had kids as a retirement plan.
What grinds my gears about my mom is that she always went half-assed on my care as a child and did the bare minimum for cheap when she could get away with it. If I ever protested how she treated me she pummeled me with tirades that made me feel extreme guilt and shame. If she expects me to take care of her in any capacity then she better be grateful for my half-baked effort and feel ashamed when I yell at her for not being appreciative enough, like how she did me when I was a child. She best not complain, but I'm kinda hoping she just dies suddenly so I won't have to act as hospice for years for the chain-smoking old crow.
Ireland. Had three just this week and that's pretty fuckin unheard of here.
A woman and her 7 month old baby. A man and his two adult sons (murder suicide where the wife ran for help and is alive) and now a woman and her 6 and 11 year old have been found all very violently killed.
A lot of scrote husbands are fucking losing it.
Some are resentful that they have to be home all day around their partners who they despise and consider nags, and are pressured to actually care after their own kids who they find extremely needy and annoying.
Worse yet some are unemployed or had drastic pay cuts, so they can't even soothe themselves by pretending like they contribute anything meaningful and so they shouldn't have to help out domestically.
Reading r/breakingmom has really opened my eyes. Their boyfriends and husbands are unhinged and dangerous. They chimpout when the wives attempt to roust them from their animes and video games.
i know this is morbid but men usually die earlier than women so counting on a male partner is not so realistic.
friends is always good but some of them will also die.
old people will almost always need help from the younger generation. well, you can always make younger friends.
>>157137>men usually die earlier than women so counting on a male partner is not so realistic.
Indeed. Slightly related, my plan for when I'm a pensioner and my partner dies is to spend time playing bridge with other widows in one of the bridge clubs. It's a very popular pastime for old widowed women here, you get nice company and you get to flex your aging brain to ward off dementia.
I found a good school for bridge and was about to start learning when corona hit. Will be going as soon as we get back to normal.
Kek anon it's cute that you're taking up bridge in preparation for being a social old lady, you'll have like 50 years to get good.
Though it may have lost popularity by then, I assume old people in the future will still be playing video games.
Oh, I'm much much closer to being a pensioner than to being young. There's no time left to plan old age if I don't do it now.
I do play online games, but they're no real substitute for f2f contact, and most of the women in my generation don't.
This is what my grandmother did. She ended up remarrying a widower in her mid-70's, which I can't say I would do the same. He quickly got Alzheimer's. Now she's taking care of a man she barely knew.
They are moving to a planned retirement for community, so I think that it should be helpful to her.
She recently turned 80, though, and this is the first time I'm really seeing a sharp decline in her lifestyle. The virus has aged her. If it was me, I'd be out tripping mushrooms in the forest then elect for euthanization while things are relatively good…
That said she has 4 children, 13 grandchildren. We only see her when she's throwing a party because she's actually too busy for all of us. Seriously.
I'm childfree myself, but I never desired kids, so it's not a hard decision for me.
Honestly, it seems a bit silly, unless it's a huge obstacle, like you already know you have some kind of serious degenerative disease or really hard life circumstances. Don't let people to scare you into not having kids with some kind of social activist/enviromentalist/religious slogan or because they might have made all the wrong decisions in having/raising their kids. Of course the same goes for people trying to force into having kids.
They won't be there when you might feel regret at 45+ years old, and they won't be accountable. It's your choice, so think hard.
I think the other anon is right and that you should really, deeply consider if you actually want to be childfree. Obviously I don't know your specific issues, but if even dumb, accidental parents can end up raising somewhat well-adjusted adults, you may not be as bad off as you think. If it's a biological problem, then consider adopting. There are many at-risk or outright abused children that could really use a loving and stabilizing person in their lives who actually wants them.
I have personally always been childfree, but I do have a friend that ended up changing her mind after years of thinking she wanted kids. She just came to realize there wasn't really any allure in the thought of children, she just wanted them because women are "supposed" to want them. After doing more research and talking to people who are perfectly content without kids she realized that giving up her personal life and leisure time for the next 20 years to care for a small, unpredictable person wasn't really what she wanted after all.
But again, that was her realizing she didn't actually feel that way. Different from, "I do want them but won't because…"
Yes. I always wanted to be a mother and dreamt of it coming true, especially around in my early 20s. I knew I wanted to wait to have them til late 20s to early 30s, I was married, and financially stable, but I knew
I wanted to be a mother, wanted to be pregnant and bear children, all of that. I changed my mind when my mental health went to shit. I've struggled with it since childhood, but having children was still something to look forward to and something that I had faith that I'd be able to do.
But then the bipolar really kicked in around 20/21. I was unmedicated, had never been to therapy, and was actively suicidal. I cried all the time, couldn't eat, and started having violent hallucinations, including drowning, smothering, and beating my infant. Killing myself violently and hearing a baby cry. Just plain killing myself, which still isn't good because it would leave my child traumatized. I don't have those hallucinations anymore, but I still remember them, and I'm too terrified of my mental health ever getting so bad around a child and harming them physically or emotionally. It's not fair. I'd be an unfit mother, so I can't do it.
Not to mention all the other shit going on in the world. Thinking about those things helps me come to terms with it, but in my heart, that's the real reason I can't bring myself to have kids.
There's absolutely no logic to it. You physically cannot be selfish towards a child that doesn't exist, and motivations for having children are inherently selfish by nature.
What they really mean by 'selfish' is that childless people can focus on themselves rather than kids, and they resent the very idea that someone might be able to live without making the same sacrifices they do. It's absolutely true that I'm CF because I want to prioritize myself over anyone else and if I had a child that might manifest in selfishness, but since I choose not to have kids it's a moot point.
>>157703>Being a parent is not some sort of side project.
Step 1: find a good man
Step 2: easy
Step 3: have a fulfilling life and not be the depression riddled wine aunt who wasted her life chasing dick and travel photos for likes on her social media(USER HAS BEEN PUT OUT TO PASTURE)
It's a matter of perspective. People that think life is saint and always thought about kids as a goal will see creating life as a goal, and it's not like you'd tell them that they're wrong in their perception (or at least, it'd make you a hypocrite). If someone thinks life's meaning and imperative is to pass on life and create good people to replace us, then it is selfish.
I can understand people that think like this, but I also don't see myself as a "corridor" for other people to be born into the world (especially since motherhood is a thousand times worse than fatherhood), but as my own person that's here to fuck around.
I have always been a fence sitter. I don’t agree with >>157701
that an old woman without children is sad in general, but I do fear that I will be sad some day. I enjoy the life I am living, but I don’t see myself doing the same things in 10, 20 or 30 years. The love and integrity happy families seem to experience is something I really long for (and I know that not all families work like that). Procreating and seeing a little human growing up, teaching them things and giving + receiving unconditional love in the best case sounds great. Many of the things mentioned here don’t bother me – I know that kids are loud, but I think if it is your own child that you love, you will be able to cope. And while there definitely are health risks, "lasagne looking vag" (kek) is not really my concern.
Still, I am not 100% convinced. I am scared of pregnancy, but I also don‘t know if I want to adopt. I have mental health issues and don’t want to experience PPD or worse. I am sceptical of how my relationship with my partner of 10+ years will change (some say it gets even better, some feel jealousy and/or can’t handle the stress). I also don’t trust the (health) system because I often hear stories of women experiencing violence by medical personnel when giving birth, thus developing PTSD. And those women don’t get enough support because suddenly the only thing you are is a mother and people expect you to give up everything else because of that. If I have children, I want to continue being myself, a human being, and not a vessel that everyone can judge as they like.
And then again, I often see parents around my age who seem happy, share all the work, give each other space & (alone) time. I can see that with my partner, but the fear is still there.
Nothing sadder than a woman who thinks that other women's only purpose in life is to be a baby incubator with no choice on the matter or reign over her own life.
That is, if you're a woman. This thread reeks of scrotes who're scared of women who're independent from men and who won't serve them babies and dedicate their lives to mommying both the kids and the father.
If a woman decides to have children out of her own free will, that's great. If a woman decides not to have children out of her own free will, that's also great.
As girls and women we shouldn't fight or shame each other over our decision to have children or not. Instead we should stand together to continue to fight and protect our freedom of choice. There's nothing more important than our freedom of choice regardless of what that choice is.
Well said, anon. I agree that women should be supportive towards each other, whether they want to have children or not. The classical doubting ("Oh, you don’t want to have children? You will change your mind honey, just wait!") and belittling childfree women is not okay at all. Hopefully society will realize that one day.
However, I think "both sides" in this discourse should be more considerate of other perspectives and goals in life. As someone who is on the fence, I often encounter childfree women who somehow sound incredibly bitter and resentful, ITT as well (spreading fear, making fun of ideas that favor having children, bodyshaming, using words like "baby incubator" or "deflated balloon tits" to hurt women that consider having children). I don’t have children, highly doubt having them and still, my childfree friends constantly feel the need to point out that I am boring, conservative and will ruin my life just because I am sometimes considering having children. I am used to scrotes, tradwife types and older people judging me and deciding on what I should to with my life, but I hate that other women who face the same issues perpetuate it, too.
Very true, I wish we would respect each other more. Unfortunately I feel we have a long way ahead of us, seeing women still shame each other for using pads vs tampons in 2020. As if having periods wasn't shitty enough.>>157731
NTA from above but thank you for this, sometimes I need a nudge towards self reflection as well. My own bitterness stems from what has been said a hundred times in this thread, but that's not an excuse for nasty behaviour towards children-positive people which just creates a cycle of resentfulness between the two sides. My money is on your friends being scared of losing you if you have kids/family but shaming you isn't a way to win you over.
I really really really wish some women wouldn't do that "I was 100% sure I never wanted kids just like you, then I had an oopsie and kept the baby, now I love being a mom and I have another kid on the way. Just you wait, the same will happen to you!" shtick. I know they mean well because it's their very impactful very personal experience, but I highly doubt they were ever truly childfree or if they ever gave their future life a good long thought. Please, don't say you're childfree unless you mean it, you're ruining it for all of us who have to beg our doctors to tie our tubes because yes we are absolutely sure we want this. Speaking of which, a question I saw somewhere in the thread:>How can you be sure your husband won't change his mind and eventually leave you for someone who will have his babies?
No other way around it but a good long discussion about his openness to sterilization - yours, his, or both.
I read that childless women were four times more likely to die early from circulatory disease, cancers, and accidents than those with children, and men were about twice as likely. The conclusion was that being childless reduces your fight for life.
There's also this studyhttps://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24937580/
It's sad that people can't find a strong drive for life as long as they don't have kids at their home. It was never that important to me but the importance society puts on it also puts pressure on me. People (like doctors) will literally care LESS about you if you don't have kids. When you're young, yeah, they will care, but it's only because there's still a potential for you to have children. I had doctors telling me many times that we have to be careful with this and that because "one day I will have children". But once you hit your late 30s and you're still childless, people will care less and less. In case of cancer, doctors obviously don't care about older people as much as they care about the young, but I think it's even more apparent if that person is childless.
What's more likely?>they don't want to get sued (Denmark's laws do protect the doctors from blame 100%, but I don't know about other places)>they're wary of taking away a young person's fertility out of actual human concern >they think every woman should have at least one child
You really think they're so zealous about filling every womb?
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I shudder at the convos I had with my ex fiancé about us having kids. Because I was worried about my inability to care for them properly because I lack patience and sympathy and generally dislike children (your child is fugly sorry Rebecca), suddenly I’m going to make a good mother becauseI’m seriously thinking about why I would not be a good mother. No motherfucker, I obviously have anxiety about rearing children and every time I discuss with you I’m child free and can’t handle the stress you would say “oh that’s in the future things can change.” Dude even said he’s glad he’s having kids in his 40s because if he doesn’t feel like playing with them anymore he can just say daddy is old and too tired to play. I would have been stuck with everything which is my nightmare. He never told me why he was dumping me, but I’m pretty sure him being an old scrote and me not willing to have a child right away influenced his decision. True irritation is telling the person you’re dating you don’t want kids, they say ok then a few years later try to indoctrinate you.
Be careful with your sources anon. I looked up that "childless more likely to die from diseases" one and the study population solely consisted of women seeking IVF treatment, meaning they were taking intensive, expensive measures to have a child but ended up unable to have one. They were not "childfree" but "childless," which no doubt caused them stress. Also, only 96 women died (220 men) out of 21,000 couples. So that's ~.002%. That is a minuscule percentage, more scrotes were kicking the bucket, and I doubt this would've been much different in a random sample of people dying over the course of 11 years. Their diseases were likely pre-existing and accidents are accidents.
A consulting psychologist said, "This is a very specific situation of people who are trying to have children - the study's findings cannot be used to generalise across the whole general population." Anyway, there are are also studies that say many mothers are dealing with worse mental health and committing suicide at higher rates during COVID since they are stuck at home caring for a child (and sometime baby daddy) full-time now. It's well known postpartum depression is a thing. Another study says that childfree and child-having individuals are equally happy at the later stages of life. Don't let inconclusive evidence cause unnecessary stress.
>>157762> suddenly I’m going to make a good mother because I’m seriously thinking about why I would not be a good mother
Eeew this gives me flashbacks to things my ex would say! After I'd go on a rambling explanation about all the reasons I didn't want to be a mother and how tiring, thankless and horrid it sounded, he'd say, "See baby, the fact you think about all those things and wouldn't go into it unprepared is exactly why
you'd made a good mother!" Wtf you absolute retard, no. Being able to think critically about a theoretical scenario does not mean one has the desire or capacity to face it. My reasons for not doing so were clearly expressed in the actual content of what I said, but of course he didn't pay attention to that. Instead he was dazzled by my overall capacity for forethought (which I suppose is
an exceedingly rare ability within the scrote community).
Glad you're not with that dumbass anymore.
>>157766>comparing broken bones to tubal ligation
I don't even know how you managed to do that, but I guess I'll level with you for a moment. Doing things that fix your health or hell, a trauma to the body are different from tying your tubes, and are often a "do or die" situation. While vaccines can be argued on (I'm not anti-vaxx, but it is true that sometimes they cause complications, and they don't know enough about why and how to avoid that), they don't really have an alternative approaches. While you still have a bunch of non-invasive contraceptive options.
You could've at least talked about plastic surgeons for comparison, but those don't really touch your innards, except for the new wave of sexual organ reassignment, which is really really questionable for normal people anyway. I guess you should just become a boy while it lasts.
What the fuck?
No, I see them as people carrying a child you weirdo. I may not want kids myself but I don't look down on people who do, as long as they're fit to be a parent and not some teenage crackhead that got knocked up by accident.
weird! im already the asperger's riddled beer aunt that enjoys her life, doesn't chase dick cause i dont want that and i would absolutely LOVE to have some MORE travel photos which would mean that i was able to take such photos by doing what i like most in life which is, you guessed it! spend my hard earned money on travelling. i dont hate people that want to have kids, i just despise the way most of you talk down to people that simply dont want to. hope you get better. maybe you are stressed out by all the things that you would want to do and cant cause of the kids you have to take care of?
also >find a good man
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The whole discussion ITT and some of the main arguments (can’t travel/have fun/have time for myself) show how deeply engraved traditional gender roles are even among seemingly progressive women and in an "anti scrote environment". If I had children, I would make sure that my partner does at least 50% of the work and that both of us can have their personal space and free time. Of course it differs from a childfree life, but if I imagine myself as a mother, I don’t see a woman that gives up herself for her child. It is a matter of mutual respect and a choice that both parents make. Most people here seem to think that in a parent relationship, the woman will always be at a lazy scrote's mercy without any autonomy. Of course those relationships exist, but it shouldn’t be the standard we apply to our own lives. I am sure that I can judge whether my partner respects me and whether he would support me as a father.
I also think the whole "heheee! I can go on holiday and YOU CAN’T!" argument is incredibly dumb. It is possible to go on holiday with or without (your) children. And yes, children cost money, but if possible, you should only choose to have them if you can afford that, anyway. I think there are way more serious and real arguments against pregnancy/childbirth/being a parent than this holiday "argument". >>157812
I think it really is better for you to not reproduce, anon.
>>157845>The whole discussion ITT and some of the main arguments (can’t travel/have fun/have time for myself) show how deeply engraved traditional gender roles are even among seemingly progressive women and in an "anti scrote environment". If I had children, I would make sure that my partner does at least 50% of the work and that both of us can have their personal space and free time.
If you had a child…that very likely wouldn't be the case either, you're too optimistic. Many young women have great faith in their partner ("He's sooo caring and he loooves kids!") but in the end it's always the same, the woman ends up doing everything.
And if you had a tiny bit more freedom than your average mom then you can bet that people around you will shittalk you behind your back ("Who does she think she is?! So egoistic!"). I witness this all the time, other people and especially women being super bitter about the rare mother who doesn't place herself at the very back.
Maybe you're lucky and become an excpetion but your chances are very, very slim.>I am sure that I can judge whether my partner respects me and whether he would support me as a father.
Being this naive and being so uppity about it is the real cringe.
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>>157845>I am sure that I can judge whether my partner respects me and whether he would support me as a father.
Yeah, I'm sure every woman that was stuck with a partner that distanced themselves from childcare after the kid was born or left the woman was just a retard that had it coming, and had zero individuality or self-respect. You'll be fine, you're so smart, babe!
It might be naive, but I really hope that society will make progress here. Just like you have seen many cases where the mother had to do everything and the scrote was a disappointment, I have seen the opposite around me. However, it is true that the mothers who are open about it (taking time for themselves, going out without baby & dad, going back to work and having the father do the paternal leave) get a lot of shit. It is depressing. I am glad so see many mothers speaking up on this issue though, trying to fight for acceptance and a different view on parenthood. And I am "uppity" about it because I was trying to bring a more positive and supportive perspective into the discussion instead of constantly fighting about stereotypes and the general hostility from both sides. >>157854
I was not trying to say that I am better than others or that the women who suffer as parents are at fault, but that the negative examples ITT are not the only possibility.
Ideally, parenthood is a situation with mutual respect and task sharing. Of course "ideally" unfortunately is not the norm.
i'm the anon you responded to. You must be very young so i wont be a giant bitch and ruin your wishful thinking. i 100% agree with you in this statement: > it shouldn’t be the standard we apply to our own lives
but sadly that's all wishful thinking and not a reality. even if you find a "good partner and father" chances are you are still gonna do the majority of te parenting. and even worse, the scrote will be praised for "helping" you with his own children. and dont even THINK about breaking up or divorcing him cause that's where you'll be fucked up for good. he will be the fun weekend parent (if you are lucky enough that he actually sticks around) and you'll be the one doing all the real work. im an oldfag and i've witnessed time and time again this kinds of situations, especially with the seamingly "good fathers until momma doesnt want to put out anymore"
You seem to have missed this link upthread, so I’ll spoon-feed it to you just like all the wonderful babies you plan to raise (with minimal help from dad): https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/parenting/wp/2015/05/07/once-the-baby-comes-moms-do-more-dads-do-less-around-the-house>More than 95 percent of the nearly 200 couples… proclaimed to want egalitarian marriages.>both the men and women worked about 40 hours a week and spent 15 hours doing housework>Then they had a baby. Women continued to do 15 hours a week of housework [and] added 22 hours a week of child care. Men picked up 14 hours of child care [but] did 5 fewer hours of housework. >Plus, the study found that men were doing more of the fun child care – like playing peek a boo and reading, while the women were doing more of the diaper changing and schlepping to child care
You can have the greatest, most equal marriage in the world. And that will all change once you pop out a kid. Go for it, but don’t think even a “good” man is going to put in an equal amount of work.
>>157845 >If I had children, I would make sure that my partner
Why are you coming into the 'childfree' thread and boring us all with tales of your hypothetical children and plans for them? That's the last thing this thread is here for.
>I think it really is better for you to not reproduce, anon.
Again, read the thread title genius
He does work so I'll reluctantly give him some credit, but I'm constantly blown away a friend's dad who had 4 kids and left his wife to care for them alone while he went out swanning around with a new, younger girlfriend several states away. He paid child support but it was definitely not enough for a single mother to comfortably survive while caring for four
children, even though she also worked full-time. I don't know when she ever slept and how she's not a shell of her former self today. Beyond that three of the kids were boys and all of them absolutely idolized their father for being this cool, adventurous wanderin' man while ignoring their iron-willed mother who actually kept them alive and gave them a relatively normal childhood with attention, schooling, sports and all that while having no time to herself. They were poor as shit but never knew it thanks to her. It enrages me. Thankfully now that they're older the brothers have gained a more realistic perspective of their father and appreciate what their mom did, but I cannot remotely imagine being in her position and just staying quiet while they raved about how awesome that piece of shit was. He barely changed a diaper and now he still gets to have fun family dinners and feel the "glory of fatherhood" as another anon described. She literally never said a word against the father despite what he did. Unbelievable.
Spend some more time with women who have had children, anon.
The ones I know have very helpful husbands, but all of them have decided to leave work and become stay-at-home moms because someone has to. It's too challenging otherwise.
Because of this, the childcare isn't split 50%. They will be set back in their careers. In some cases, they may never reach their careers at all.
I know one stay-at-home father and it's only because he was a photographer who couldn't support a family on his salary.
I became pretty sure I don't want children after reaching adulthood. There are many reasons for it. I come from a fucked up family and I'm always scared that I'd get the "parenting skills" from my mother regardless of how hard I tried not to, and my family past is mostly the biggest reason. My grandma, my mother and me had suicide attempts in teenagehood, and I was also terrified of the thought of giving birth to a daughter that would have the same issues. Also me and my partner both struggled with being depressed, and it's widely known that depression can be hereditary. Other reasons as to are my past struggles with ED, which would probably hit me with an enormous force since I am a person that tends to gain weight faster, I have terrible back problems already, and I am also very career focused, to the point of really wanting to achieve something big in that path.
I was never much of a family person, and seeing my mother with her 3 small kids made me realize how fucking draining that is. Basically you have 0 time (even with one kid) for yourself until they reach primary school, and I value time for myself a lot. I don't hold any disdain for people with children, but seeing some moms being so preoccupied with their kids to the point that they see them as god's gift to earth and can't shut the fuck up about them is really annoying, and I would rather drown in a cesspool than become a person like that, completely devoid any other interests than their children.
Fortunately my partner fully supports and even agrees with my decision, but his mother is really trying to pry her way into this topic with her usual bullshit like 'children r da best!!! nothing is better that chirren!! how come you have other hobbies and interests???' and also saying stupid shit about christian weddings and baptism when we are both strong atheists.
Fuck people who borderline demonize the concept of being childless and try to indoctrinate you on how to live. If you don't want kids, don't try to change it just because someone can't understand it. Have a nice day girls.
iirc my parents raised me 50/50 since their work hours are lesser than average and they still didn't have time to do shit, a kid is way more work than you imagine, they demand ALOT of time, I had to be picked up from school, dropped at extracurriculars, needed time for help my homework, make me food, clean my room, toys and clothes when I was too young to do chores, and all of that was basic shit, my parents were lucky if they had a free weekend and could go to a child-appropiate location with me like a park.
This. Tbh, it was spending time with women who have children that made me pretty sure I don't want any.
I have a big family and a decent sized friend group of women around my age. They'll frequently brag about how great their husband is because he watched the kids while she made dinner, or because he took them to the park so she can get 2 hours alone (while she cleans). I used to mind my cousin's kids a lot and it's bizarre going over to their house. He's always sitting down playing on his phone while the kids run around and she's cooking/cleaning, yet she's always talking about how wonderful and amazing he is.
And yes, I know, "you can't know their relationship, you're not seeing the whole picture, anon," that's true, it's not my place, but it's kinda hard to not notice it.
I don't think all these men are necessarily bad people, but the bar is ridiculously low for fathers. I don't hear any of these guys bragging about how great their wife is because she does 90% of the housework, but be damn sure they'll complain as soon as she slips up and forgets something. Motherhood isn't praised or rewarded, it's expected. Men are all basically Father of the Year if they don't run away, change their name, and move to a remote tropical island to avoid child support.
>>157988>they demand ALOT of time, I had to be picked up from school, dropped at extracurriculars, needed time for help my homework, make me food, clean my room, toys and clothes when I was too young to do chores
Omg, this. I had amazing parents but they were TOO good to me tbh, it was to their own detriment. My memories of childhood are one of the biggest reasons I don't want kids because imagine if I got a kid like me?
It's crazy how much time my parents spent chauffeuring me around to (and forking out a tonne of money for) a variety of sports, music lessons, birthday parties, and dance concerts, and I would get bored and quit most extra curriculars I tried/bitch if I was forced to go. They were always helping me with my school work, from building dioramas for projects as a kid to frantically finishing my final art project at the last minute, all the random costumes and food and presentations I needed to bring in for school. And then obviously the normal housework and cooking on top of that. I was always stressed out of my mind as a kid but imagine being the parent who has to facilitate all that shit AND deal with their grumpy ass child? I distinctly remember my mum being overwhelmed and frustrated most of the time because of it. The worst part is I was sooo ungrateful, never helped around the house, always wanted them to buy me things, etc, it took me until adulthood to realise how awful it must have been for them. Even now as an adult I constantly need their help and advice, thank fuck they love me lmao. And I assume that is why they have never ever encouraged me to have kids, because they know a spoiled brat like me wouldn't cope like they did and they want me to be happy.
My memory of childhood is quite the opposite of this but equally has put me off having kids. Neither of my parents drove. I walked to and from school alone. When I started secondary school that school was really far away and I spent a stupid amount of time by myself getting to and from the school every day. I never joined any sports or extra classes because I had no way of getting there and my parents wouldn't pay for any activities. Homework was done alone. My parents weren't divorced and my mom was a stay at home mom so I don't know why I spent so much time alone. My dad wanted everyone to leave him alone on his days off.
I don't want to repeat that style of parenting but seeing as I've had therapy for 'childhood neglect' (their words, not mine) I'm aware that neglected kids grow up to be a little lacking in areas. I already hate that I can't display love normally in romantic relationships.
I think for some there is a small amount of desire there so that's why the reasons are important to those women. I always knew I wouldn't have kids. It simply came down to having no strong desire to be selfless or in a carer role. As I got older though I do have to admit that the desire is there every once in a blue moon but it's a fleeting thought of 'what if'
So now that I have those fleeting moments I find that my list of reasons is important to me. I didn't need that list til I was already in my thirties and settled in as a homeowner etc. I have a similar list of reasons why getting a dog wouldn't realistically suit me lol. Just in case I get tempted to on impulse get a pet.
For sure, I just don't want them and never have. My reason for reasons is because people have demanded them of me all my life stating that simply not wanting kids wasn't enough, so I had to find ways to explain the innate disgust I felt at the thought of becoming a mother. >>158110
I always thought this was creepy in hindsight. Like, it's considered normal for a child that is not yet capable of reproducing to want offspring, when they have an extremely limited concept of what that actually entails, and no insight as to how one reaches that state of being. At first it seems harmless, like how someone might dream of being an astronaut, yet when they realize how much studying, expense and outright luck it requires they move on. But for many women, it seems their outlook never expands past that original concept (except for knowing they need a scrote). I've read so many stories of regretful parents saying, "Yeah, I just thought it was normal for girls to want kids so I always felt that way too and didn't realize you could opt out."
That kind of indoctrination at such a young age, and beyond that, the way society reinforces the rose-colored view of parenthood for so long afterwards, is pretty terrifying to me.
abortion is a thing anon. whether legal or not in your country, it's always an option if you do your research> Nothing more disgusting than having an alien planting itself inside you and stealing everything you like in your life.
based, whenever i said babies are just human parasites i get the weirdests looks… im not saying it to be edgy, it's just the objective truth: a separate organism growing and feeding off of another living thing. how is that not a parasite?
technicalities!!! scrotes are a different species and an outside source (you need their dna to make the baby). they are harmful cause they wreck your life and stay on your life forever (granted not inside
but around) it's a joke, dont shoot me, kek
>>158316 > come from an outside source
I know we're getting nitpicky but I count sperm entering my body as an outside source.
I went through years of having UTIs and general irritation whenever I was sexually active. When I'm single I can masturbate as much as I like without any issues and I've had relationships with women where again the issue didn't arise. I have some weird sensitivity to sperm/the mixng of fluids that happens during straight sex so that might be why I personally see it as so foreign and unwelcome lol
Not thaat much, parasites literally drain their host's health and life>>158325
Lmao I see it tho
Anyways, anyone can hate babies and call them parasites or whatever, just know that scientifically, they aren't
biology major fun fact: sperm is actually considered as a threat by the body and is "killed" by white blood cells
impregnation fetishists getting btfo'd
My fave artist used to make really dark art about parasites, insect-like things and all sorts of deformities. I had no idea why I was so drawn to it because sex and gross shit isn't my usual thing… When I bought a book on him it explained that his feelings around wanting women sexually but the fear of getting a woman pregnant was what was behind an awful lot of the art.
He spent decades producing pieces that were both sexual and grotesque and I think it's interesting to see a man was tapping into that same place of fear. On the surface it looks like it's being gross or sexual just for the hell of it but I get why it resonated with me now. Very parasite heavy imagery.
He died a few years ago, old and while he had a long term partner and the means to have kids, he was of course childless.
Nta but where I live (firstworld eur) you can't get it done as a woman…if you don't already have 2/3 kids. They will not perform it on a childess woman full stop. Even if you have kids they usually want you to be 35 aswell first.
Meanwhile my ex paid 200 quid and got himself a vasectomy with the same ease that you'd book in for a tooth flling. No questions asked. He has one previous kid, not that they even wanted to know that.
I've heard as much, it's been horrible seeing that Polish women are still unable to receive even the most basic rights over their bodies. I can't imagine having that fear in the back of my mind and I'm sorry you're having to deal with it directly anon. >>158374
I have heard of restrictions like this where it's "xx age or y kids" as if all women should be required to fulfill a societal duty to reproduce and continue the species regardless of our wants and genetics in an already overpopulated world. It's ridiculous.
In any case, my intent wasn't to minimize the difficulties some anons might face. I have just heard from quite a few women in places like the US, UK, Australia, Canada and so on worrying about being turned down when the opportunity is still legally there, and it's not worth wasting time feeling nervous when you could be looking for a good doc instead. Hell in Mexico tubals are legal and cheap so if someone is running into issues in NA and really wants one they might even consider a sterilization vacation.
not that anon, but there have been many warnings in the polish feminist circles about pro-life people hiding behind phone numbers that were advertised for women who needed abortions, also there were some rumours about government planning to hunt women who had an abortion
still doctors here usually don't give a single shit about anything, so realistically I doubt that even with the current political climate they would've tried to persecute women after the procedure
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Are you talking about H.R Giger? If so yeah, a ton of his work is very phallic and had a lot of bizarre sexual themes and not in a glorifying way
Beyond doing the design for the alien it seems he presented pregnancy it a very body-horror way, even as a man. I rewatched Alien recently and the whole movie can be taken as an allegory for unwanted pregnancy.
I had to get married so I could stay with my ex in his country (visa marriage). As soon as we did it it's like a switch flipped in his head and he decided he could now stop trying and let himself go. I had to be with that clown for five years. Never fucking doing it again, it's not worth it.
I do have a boyfriend right now but it's not something I plan to maintain in the long run, just until I get bored of him.
I'm not explicitly against marriage, I just don't really see the point of it. If I find someone I want to say with long term I'd probably opt for registered partnership instead, but I'd have to research it more to be sure.>>158671> I just don't want to live with a guy.
This. My mom is basically my father's maid (she'll even call herself his slave in heated arguments) and I don't want that for myself. I don't want to be some guy's live-in maid or mommy. Now I didn't grow up in healthy household, so this situation is undoubtly not comparable to anyone in a healthy relationship with a guy with good mental health and a good background, but still. I even see it when I'm around my married nieces or female friends. When we're over with a group of friends or familymembers it's always the women doing all the work (cooking, cleaning up, serving coffee etc.) while the men sit on their asses drinking a beer, even though all of them work full-time. I'm not from some conservative country and culture where women are expected to be in the kitchen and nothing else, so you'd think the divide of work at home would be more equal, but it doesn't seem to be like that at all. I don't know if it's out of sheer laziness from men/the don't care or if women simply have higher standards but I just don't want that for myself.
Both of my grandmothers had a handful of live births and a handful of still births. They have no real idea why those babies didn't survive but it was common enough not that long ago to go through pregnancy and childbirth and have a stillborn baby at the end of it with no answers.. that horrifies me.
Even when I was in college a few years ago a girl I wasn't too close to had an unexpected pregnancy but she was excited about the baby anyway and planning to make it work. Her bf was supportive. She had just lost her mother so she thought the timing of the pregnancy was significant. I wasn't close enough to her to know all the details but she was very heavily pregnant when she lost the baby and had to give birth to it. Her first time giving birth… Men can fuck off thinking the decision not to carry child is about vanity. It's always a risk. It can pay off and have a beautiful result.. but we're taking a gamble each time.
It did cross my mind that this girl I knew had a post pregnancy body and no baby and I don't think that's vain, I just tried to imagine what it feels like to have that reminder of what you lost. People say that as soon as you hold the baby you forget all the pain of childbirth instantly. But what about those not-so-lucky mothers. Where's their consolation for going through that?
I’ve never had the desire to have kids but always trying to look for reasons to have them- I’m not really sure why, maybe because having kids is the norm.
Except I am constantly just finding more reasons NOT to have them. I honestly can’t think of a single good reason to get pregnant.
Idk if I'm 'marriage-free.'
I don't really see the point to getting married, so I'm not pushing for it to happen one way or the other. My boyfriend really seems to want us to get married one day.
He's serious boyfriend #3 after many non-serious boyfriends. So I'll have to see if I can make it past the 3 year mark first. I do love him, but I don't have any fairy tale ideas about what a marriage would be like. To me it's just a way of saying, "Okay we are choosing to be each other's family now."
Also none of that wedding bullshit. He loves talking about who his groomsmen would be and I'm like, "This is kinda silly like choosing who will be in your homecoming group. I've literally never even met any of these people in the 1+ year we've been dating because you don't hang out with them. And we're almost 30."
Like he's lived with girlfriends before. My grandparents still just call every bf they meet by the first bf of mine they ever met lmfao. We're experienced adults who have been independent for some time, this isn't some weird coming of age thing where we leave our families, start a family, etc.
I understand their function when girls were literally taken from their families and it was probably the last time they would see them- that's just (luckily) not the case in our culture.
>>159774>Are you not lonely in that house all by yourself
kek yeah I often see people say shit like >omg but can you imagine… going home to an empty apartment at night? So depressing, so lonely!!
to scare people into getting married/having kids and I'm just like lmao that's the fucking dream though? Getting back to an empty place is the best feeling. Time to chill and eat with nobody to answer to.
>>159774>Are you not lonely in that house all by yourself
Finally I will be able to exist without being poked at, bothered, and judged 24/7. The horror! Kek.
I can't wait until I have a safe place only for myself, not having to clean or care after others bc it's expected, not having to put on clothes or keep in mind other people when I decorate or cook or buy shit.
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I plan on staying child free and marriage free. No pets either, I like being alone without responsibility aside from the basics. I do however plan on nurturing myself, I had an abnormal childhood. I want to relive it as an adult and find myself. There is no room for anybody else, but me. My time, my heart, and body belongs to me only. I deserve to be one who makes me happy.
Heard a lot of stories about women in their 30s suddenly getting a strong biological urge to have children and I'm really scared that the same thing will happen to me.
Also, aside from >>156678
, have any of you told your parents of your wish to remain childless? How did they react?
>>175424>The urge to have children does not exist since all other animals lack the ability to envision and plan the future
1. Squirrels gather acorns to prepare for hibernation
2. Even if you pretend that your statement is true, you literally pointed out a trait where humans are unique from animals. Humans demonstrably can plan for the future.
Brainlet post of the day.
1. That's simple collecting, and does not contain any cause-effect higher processing like planning children would (cause sex -> effect kids) of which animals are incapable
2) Planning is not instinct, I'm saying the instinct doesn't exist, we do plan, that was the whole point I was making
Might not be a direct answer to your question but your post reminded me of this article. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24393178
tl;dr in the wake of covid, employees with children are given extra time off for parenting while the childless employees are asked to pick up the slack
The comments really made my blood boil. They've somehow convinced themselves that by having kids they've made a noble sacrifice for the greater good of human civilization and us childless plebeians ought to be grateful for their selfless contributions.
I told my parents. Well, only one is still alive but I got the usual responses of you'll change your mind etc.. but they not to argue with me so there's that.
I just wish people my age would stop looking at me like I have 3 heads when I say I don't want kids.
I'm closer to 30 than 20, and while it's nothing like the overexaggerated baby-fever in tales and movies (like wanting to sniff stranger's babies), I'm way more chill on being childfree than I was in my early twenties. Back then I was rejecting the absolute idea of being a mother, looking down on mothers and looking for justifications and like-minded people way harder, now there are days when I can visualize an alternative-reality me with a child and nice husband, but I'm not feeling the urge to have them this moment, year or even in my 5-year plan. Younger childfree people or ones that think it's the core of their identity will try to fight everyone who are "pro-child" instead of just laughing it off or just saying that we might be abnormal, and that's ok.
I never told my parents though. They'd flip their shit and tell me I'm naive and stupid because they really want grandchildren and I'm an only child. They'll casually talk about how the apartment I'm buying (single bedroom) will be unsuitable after my kid becomes school age, even though I never in my life once said anything about starting a family (or had serious relationships with men), but since it's the "norm", I will have one, there's no doubt in their mind. And I don't want to get into a screaming match about it.
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I think it may be happening to me right now and I'm almost 26. I was never interested in anything children-related. I wasn't even interested in dating men until I was 25, so maybe I was just behind others in emotional development because of my autism, idk (of course I'm not saying not wanting children = emotional immaturity, there's a lot of emotionally immature parents who shouldn't have had chidlren, and emotionally mature people who just aren't interested in kids etc., it's just in my case I'm realizing things about myself later than most people, I thought I'm asexual or a lesbian because I wasn't interested in pursuing sexual relationships with men until now etc.). I still find very little children gross or just funny, but I know that eventually they move on from their ugly phase and they turn into people you're actually able to communicate with. They don't stay like this forever, thank god. And I don't feel desperate or anything, I just had this thought that if I could actually find a reliable, stable and emotionally mature man who makes me feel safe and accepted, I wouldn't mind having a family. My main fear is that men are shit and that observation of mine hasn't changed. There's literally one man I know of I could call a good husband and father and when I think about him, it activates this "need" in me. I feel "I want this", it makes me feel warm inside. But then I think about all the other fathers/husbands who are shit and that "need" disappears. I don't know how lucky you must be to find a guy who's not only attractive in your eyes but also worth having a family with.
There's also the fear that because I'm an autismo I wouldn't be able to show enough emotions to a baby. I don't think I'm expressive enought and I know that seeing an emotionless face of a primary caregiver can cause distress to a little child. It doesn't help I was neglected as a kid and I didn't have any reliable adults in my life. So yeah, even though I'm not completely against having children anymore, my fear of shitty men and my inability to be a good parent is what's stopping me. Though I think that if I met the right person I could learn to be more emotionally responsive and open. So it all comes down to the fear of shitty men. I never dated men, only women, so I wouldn't even know where and how to start. If men can screw experienced women over, what chances do I have?
I never experienced baby fever, but similar experiences to >>175443
. Now that I am 30, having a child is a lot more conceivable to me. It is nothing I really wish for, but I am pretty sure I would be capable of giving birth and raising a child. I feel less panic and repulsion by the thought of it. I think it is because I feel more like an actual adult now and people around me are starting their families whereas before most of my input were childfree forums or unrealistic (romantic) portrayals of parenthood in the media.
This is a good way of putting what I've been feeling into words myself. I recently turned thirty and I don't want my life to change so I'm not dying to have a baby by next week but I'm aware that it of
it happened then I would be okay. I don't even have a financial security I just have my shit together enough to know I would handle it. It's a small change but also a big one.
>>175495>I wish I wasn't born so I couldn't possibly imagine doing the same thing to a hypothetical child.
This is exactly, exactly
how I feel aswell, unfortunately you can't tell people that's your reasoning for remaining child-free.
Diff anon but that last part. I had a childhood where social services had to get involved and I nearly was taken away, my dad kept that all very hush hush. Spent half my teens being monitored by social workers still and then spent my twenties privately getting counselling for childhood neglect. Got sectioned at 25 and finally broke down and spoke about the sexual abuse that social workers had tried to get me to admit to for over a decade prior. Seeing as everything was kept so hushed up though..nobody gets why I would choose to not have children today. Or just why I'm mentally not always doing the greatest. If I were frank about it with extended family I feel I just wouldn't be believed because from the outside everything looked ok and passed as normal back then. I hate that you can't be honest about things like that. The secrets carry on forever because you don't want to make people uncomfortable either, It's such a heavy topic. You have to pacify people with vague answers instead.
All the secrecy and shame, the hidden skeletons in my family.. it doesn't inspire me to try my hand at raising a well adjusted child. Some feel differently about this part..but I personally see if forever affecting my own interpersonal relationships, a parent/child relationship being the top one where I'd really have no clue on how to navigate it. If you neglect a child in their first 4 years the damage is so insanely hard to mitigate later on in life. Almost impossible. I don't want generations of that to unwittingly repeat.
Generational trauma is an extremely valid
reason not to have children. As is any other reason, of course.
I digress, it's so weird how people think it's okay to even ask people about their family planning unprompted imo. I don't wanna tell someone what my goals for my uterus are. What the fuck kinda archaic prying is this?! I also find it weird to hear that people are "trying for a baby" when I never asked. You're gonna tell me you're having unprotected sex? But why.
Hate to be that person but this degeneracy comes from Anglos, who preach progressiveness but are obsessed with patriarchal Christian views of the 50s nuclear family and barefoot stay at home mommy wives.
I grew up in a Muslim Slav third world country that I can't believe I'm defending, but here asking a person about their family plans and telling someone you're fucking without a condom now is extremely taboo. Nobody asked, and nobody cares. How many kids you want and when you're having them is likewise a conversation to be had between two married people. Keep it to yourself.
I think it's simply because in most people's minds it goes without saying that a couple is going to have kids.
To be honest, as much as I wish to remain childfree myself, I don't think it's that weird when people tell others they're trying for a baby. Like reproducing is a pretty normal, natural and common part of a human life and having kids is a big change in one's life. Is it that weird to tell people around you that that big change in your life is most likely coming soon? I personally don't think so.
On one hand you say you find it weird that people ask about someone else's family planning unprompted but at the same time you also say you find it weird that people ask about trying for a baby unprompted. If you can't ask about it unprompted and you can't talk about it unprompted, that would make talking about family planning and kids impossible.
I realize this is going to be an unpopular opinion in this thread, but yeah I don't think it's that weird to talk about something so completely normal in a human life.
I'm in my late 20's and I think I'm finally coming to the realization that I don't want/shouldn't have kids.
I never even thought about having kids, until I got sucked in to jordan peterson in 2016. I started listening to his lectures, which I really enjoyed. I was always really into joseph campbell so when I discovered jordan I ate it up. he says all of this stuff about how having kids gives your life purpose and whatnot, and how most women want kids, and regret focusing on their career instead. he also says that women who don't know if they want kids or not by the time they're in their mid 20's aren't "properly oriented" (k).
I convinced myself that I was somehow being selfish for never thinking of having kids, and that I should plan to have them someday.
however, the question isn't "do I want kids" but more "should I have kids" and the answer is almost definitely no. neither of my parents should have ever had children, especially not my mom. she is a hoarder who can't even take care of herself- as in do basic cleaning and hygiene- let alone raise multiple children. I grew up being neglected and as a result have a ton of mental health issues.
I'm cluster A and I have some other mental health problems, it just would not feel ethical knowing there's a high chance of passing that on to my kid(s). I can't even maintain friendships let alone raise a mentally healthy child. I have other issues too like how predisposed to obesity I am.
the biggest things I want to do in life are travel and study my subjects of interest and honestly I feel pretty guilty about that, which is fucking sad because I know a man wouldn't feel guilty about that at all. I want to travel to europe more than pretty much anything, even live there for a while ideally. however, I'm already in my late 20s and if I spent years living there then I would be in my mid/late 30's by the time I would want to settle down and have kids, which could technically still happen but would be harder to manage. and honestly travelling sounds so much more appealing then sacrificing 18 years of my life to raise another human being. also, I pretty much have 0 maternal instincts.
I just can't shake this feeling that I'm somehow being selfish though? and part of me kind of does want kids, I think. it's really hard to tell though because I'm so easily influenced, and I almost think that wanting kids is some kind of fomo for me, mostly because I am afraid I will get to be 40+ and regret not having kids but not be able to have them at that point (not that women over 40 can't get pregnant but it's harder).
My mom was a piece of shit too who never should have had kids, so I know that feeling, anon. I don't plan to have kids because of a worse reason than that, but her shitty "parenting" was also a big part of it.
I like Jordan and all but it baffles me as to why these kinds of people (folks like Jordan Peterson and other speakers) seem to think women have no rich, rewarding life if children aren't involved. I'm really into history, and I've come across so many women who had fucking amazing lives, and had no kids. But I have a feeling Jordan Peterson isn't familiar with them. Idk, I feel like the only selfish people nowadays are the ones who DON'T read history. Otherwise they'd realize there's more to life than just THEIR view of it. And thinking that everyone should conform to their view is selfish.
Agreed. Being a mother is just one of the many choices and perhaps an extension of womanhood, but not its definition. You can have a happy, fulfilled life without children for sure. >>189833
I personally would rather regret not having children than regret having them. And I also think that the possibility of regretting a childfree life one day is not a good reason to have them. As a woman that has been leaning childfree lately, I don’t want to put too much emphasis on the regret thought. There will probably be moments of FOMO once the people around me increasingly become parents and perhaps even moments of regret in certain situations, but I will simply allow these feelings and see them as what they are: Fleeting thoughts that won’t bother me for long because I know that a childfree life is better for me in general. Also Anon, I don’t think you are selfish because you have mentioned several reasons to not have children that are focused on the child and not on you. And even if you were selfish, who cares? It doesn’t matter if you don’t want to have children because you don’t want to pass on a certain illness or because you simply want to spend all your money on yourself. In the end, it is your body and your decision and it honestly is fine to be selfish in that regard.
I think I'm just emotionally retarded or something, because having kids is so illogical to me. It has never made any sense to me ever, and the only time I thought I wanted kids I was actually just extremely horny.
It's almost shocking to me that anyone really wants kids at all.
There don't seem to be any positives aside from they take up more of your time, and it's nice to have a project that's bigger than yourself.
>I just can't shake this feeling that I'm somehow being selfish though?
The selfless reasons for having children are creating workers. People to create and move capital. People to sustain the system. If you believe in the system, there is your selfless reason to have children. Go for it.
The selfish reasons for having children are because you want the intimacy, the closeness, the satisfaction of knowing someone is permanently connected to you and that they exist because of you.
That is why most people have children. In turn, parenthood often demands them to be really selfless people. Unfortunately not selfless enough to care about the world at large, only selfless enough to think about a body other than their own to share their DNA.
I don't mean to sound so cynical about child-parent relationships. I think parenthood probably is really enjoyable to some people. I've seen super stable and happy family structures built on that basis!
NTA It probably depends on childhood socialization and general family values. Like it's somewhat tinfoily, but I think the push to have less "gendered" childhoods and not to push baby dolls for nursing on little girls makes it less likely you'll be obsessed with motherhood, but it's obviously not that simple.
Reminds me a talk I had with my friend about the vaccine and she told me she's scared of taking it, and I told her I didn't have any bad reactions to it, she told me she's scared that she could become infertile. Which I don't believe would happen, but it was also never a factor for me even when I heard those scare tactics. I was like 20 when I first said my then-boyfriend that it'd be kind of a relief to find out I'm infertile by nature, and he looked at me as if I had two heads, so I never talk about childlesness to anyone anymore kek.
>>189973>it'd be kind of a relief to find out I'm infertile by nature
I have had similar thoughts, but I also refrain from telling anyone about it because it seems a bit unhinged and there is also so much suffering around infertility for many women that I feel kind of bad about it. There was a time where I brainwashed myself into wanting to have children because of societal pressure and the people around me starting to push me. I resonate with >>189953
because it just doesn’t make sense to me and I felt emotionally retarded when I saw other women talk about their deep desire to have children and how it is so important for our lives. I sat down for weeks, watching baby videos on YouTube every day with titles like "Watching this will give you baby fever!" and I tried to accept the idea of being a mother. I do find toddlers cute, so there were some Kodak moments with them I could imagine and I thought I had developed the wish for a child. But at the same time I started having really disturbing dreams around the issue (especially about breastfeeding and losing autonomy of my body) and secretly started hoping that I am infertile or even have an accident that does that to me. It showed me that I really don’t want to be a mother no matter what anyone says. You can really brainwash yourself into it, but my secret thoughts around the issue were so obvious. Now that I have come to terms with my decision and also have talked about being childfree to others, I don’t hope for infertility anymore though because I can finally be open about my desires without hoping for a secret cure.
Really late, but this is extremely common. Having someone to be your butler when you get old is like 40% of why people have kids. Fucking absurd, it's basically believing that your kids owe you indentured servitude because they were born.
My brother got married and moved across the country recently and my mom is furious about it. She feels like being around his future children and being taken care of is the "reward" she deserves for raising him and putting him through college. Whenever she bitches about all the things she's had to do for us, my response is always, "you didn't have to have kids, you know." People who only do kind things because they expect to be rewarded shouldn't be parents, frankly.
I had baby dolls. I really liked babies as a teenager. I liked playing with them and holding them. Even today I really want to volunteer at the hospital to hold babies.
But for as long as I can remember, I never wanted a child of my own. When my friends in high school talked about how they wanted to get pregnant and have a baby so badly, I thought they were psychotic.
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I know for most it's just an assimilationist cope, but seriously why is it so difficult to find a childfree ssa partner?
So many want children in the next five years or have children from a previous marriage and I risk becoming some sort of stepdad figure. I feel flattered that any of these women were interested in me in the first place, but this shit really makes me panic. I wonder if I'm just avoidant and immature or internally misogynistic.
Other than that, my life is a lot easier than that of my friend; she has turned into one of those step-dad-like figures. She regularly has to deal with her gf's scrote ex and her free time is non existent.
I’m low fertility i.e. I would require doctor assistance to get pregnant.
My experience with men is that they are still worried about the chances of getting me pregnant and want to be safe anyway. I hang in progressive crowds. Most of these men are anti-natalist in varying degrees.
It is much harder to get a man who doesn’t want children to talk about commitment though. They will act like they are part of a married couple for years then freak out when you ask to make it official. I’m getting to the point where I’m not sure I want to be legally chained to a guy either, though.
Me too, nonnie
, I see too many women being happy with their quirky children and I can only think that I want one too.
The things that are keeping me away from getting one is 1. Not having a boyfriend or husband and 2. Knowing that my relatives’ kids are annoying as fuck.
I would consider suicide if I did everything on this earth to make sure my kid can turn into a decent person just to see them going full retard becauseof/on the internet and/or acting like absolute pieces of shit just because.
I just hate this game of probabilities.
On top of that childhood is so temporary. You will likely know your kid as an adult longer than you will know them as a child.
Think of how many people resent their parents sheerly due to generational differences in values.
My mom also said that even if it’s more work to take care of young kids, it doesn’t hold a candle to the anxiety of having teen/adult children who now have to fend for themselves in the world.
Long rant incoming:
I work in a place that sells sweets toys and ice cream, so I’ve witnessed the best and worst behaviour a little humanlet can display third hand many times. Some kids are so annoying and pathetic. Like, say their parents take them to get ice cream. They can’t just be content with that. They have to have EVERYTHING.
“Mummy I want the xxxl cone with chocolate and sprinkles and stwawberry sauce! Mummy daddy I don’t want a small chocolate bar, I want a fullsize xxxl chocolate bar the size of my stomach! Pleeeaaaase!” Then when they are denied they get that hurt puppy look on their face and whiiiiiine with a quivering lip, “but I waaaaaant it mummy waaaaah!” Then they stamp their feet and pout, cry, sulk like they’ve been wronged, they ruin the fucking day for everyone. Sometimes even when they’re as old as like 9 or ten they will throw themselves around and scream. They will refuse to touch the perfectly adequate treat they’ve been gifted. REFUSE it. Just one scoop of ice cream is NOT GOOD ENOUGH! Or they will see some 80.00 toy they’ll get bored of in a week, and their mother tells them to wait for their birthday and they go AAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!! All around the store. Like they couldn’t sound more distressed even if they where being brutally tortured. Why are some kids like this, whereas others, while pushing their luck a bit asking for more, just aren’t? I’ve seen like 3 year olds better behaved than ten year olds. When I see these kids get owned by their parents it’s so fucking satisfying, like a father stopped me once halfway through making his son an ice cream, said “we won’t be needing that anymore” then dragged the screaming little cunt out of there with no ice cream because he was so insistent he should have three large scoops with all the toppings, instead of one scoop and one topping in a medium cone which is a perfectly fucking adequate and delicious frozen treat. And he goes “NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO” like some sort of dramatic drama movie. Is it just first world kids like this? The worst behaved ones are usually white. I say this as a white girl who’s parents had no qualms of smacking their kids.
Why are some kids so nice, and some are so horrible? Why do I see 5 year old brothers giving their ice cream to their crying little sister because she dropped hers? Without missing a beat, like it’s second nature for them. Why does a toddler that hardly speaks clearly decide to tell me unprompted “you’re the besttest ice cream maker in the whole world” ? It makes me ACHE for a child of my own yet when I see spoiled little bastards i literally just want to smack them? People ITT are right about generational trauma and passing on the same mistakes. I used to resent my parents for being smack happy, but that’s literally my first instinct with a kid.
Kids cannot really express their emotions and problems, so perhaps tantrums over superficial treats is just a way of expressing extraneous issues in their life that they can’t talk to their parents about? Like they have a horrible abusive
teacher who calls them stupid and screams in their face, they get picked up by dad or mum and taken for ice cream so they vent their rage in a way that is safe and harbours little consequence? If I had kids I would make a habit of saying “is this REALLY what you’re upset about? Is there anything you want to talk to mummy about?” But really, I will just secretly want to smack them until they’re pink as cured ham?
Anyways, I’m approaching late 20s and defo not mentally ready for a kid KEK.
The parents with good kids are good parents. There are some exceptions to this- mental illness or learning disability.
Kids are basically born narcissists. They like to push boundaries, see what works to get their way, etc. The behaviors you see with kids at your store are the ones their parents have permitted or given into.
I think a lot of parents are inconsistent. I guarantee the kid whose dad pulled him out while you were making ice cream has gotten his way before. A number of times. If not with his dad, then with his mom.
>>190919>They like to push boundaries, see what works to get their way, etc.
Exactly. Not to speak ill of kids, but they are somewhat like puppies. They don't know the "pack order", so it's up to you to establish that hierarchy. You do that by setting up boundaries, like "bed by 8 pm on school days". Kids need stability and structure in their life, much like dogs.
I used to work at a summer camp as a junior counselor, and at the beginning of the season, everyone was a little unsure. But by the end, you'd see even the shy kids coming out of their shell and making friends. They knew all the songs, how to make the perfect mudball, etc.
Honestly same though. I didn't have a nuclear family growing up and basically had to act like a parent for my younger sister when she was born since my mother was a lazy piece of shit. I highly doubt I would be a good parent for the simple fact that I'm already fucked up.
That and vaginal tearing. Don't want that shit either.
She's kinda right tho, kids are humans
they're very different to dogs or any other animal for the matter that's just how it is, anons trying to rationalize them as puppies sound inexperienced and immature.
i mean, i agree that saying "training" in regards to kids is fucked up. but not all CF women are toxic
my 26 year old brother remembers watching a movie with my mom and grandma (long story but she is abusive
to my mom, not a good woman) and being quiet and our grandma saying "he is well trained." people remember these things. it's dehumanizing to be referred to that way. potty training is one term, calling teaching or disciplining a kid "training" is like referring them to an animal. jeez people, i thought i hated kids. at least i dont treat them like they arent stupid fucking little humans.
Even if you don't want kids I'd be mindful of the fact that being raised in a 'it's normal to hate your spouse haha' kind of family can still fuck him up in ways you may not see til you're already pretty commited to him.
Few people come from dynamics like that without (totally unconsciously) recreating it to an extent in their own relationships.
You literally have to teach kids how to be nice people that fit in socially.
Obviously you don't use the same methods you would training a dog, but conceptually it's really not that different.
Children don't even develop empathy until they're closer to 10. Everything up to that point it just pure mirroring.
Working with kids this past year has really put and end to any doubts I might’ve had about being cf. Some of the kids are sweethearts, but a few of them are just…For context, I work with kids from 3 years to 10.
There’s this one kid who couldn’t be more spoiled and always gets away with bad behavior because he’s very cherub-looking. He’s four, but just unmanageable. Anytime you tell him off he makes the dumbest surprised face because it works with other adults, he never listens, is always messing around doing gross shit like spitting into paper towels. I talked to his mother today when he came to pick him up, told her he behaved very bad and she was like
>Yeah, he’s very rebellious lately., he probably just wants the school to end and is stressed. He’s started calling me whore lately and everything.
How the fuck do you react to this lmao this kid is FOUR and he’s already manipulating the shit out of his mother, who just can’t put any boundaries. I cannot even imagine what he’s going to be like when he’s a teenager. I would feel bad for the mother if she wasn’t a complete retard, but reap what you sow, I guess.
If I ever had a kid and he was any similar to some of the kids I work with, I’d just end up becoming a deadbeat mother kek
My bf was like this at the beginning of our relationship. I started bringing him around to help babysit my nieces and nephews, and he quickly changed his mind.
I think men especially are susceptible to believing this mythology around having children because they're so inexperienced with kids. They aren't expected to babysit or help with child-rearing for their family. They're used to women taking care of everything.
In their heads it's like… a little person to admire them and a box to tick off in the "winning at life" list.
I get that CF can be 'toxic
' at times but I don't get why people need to go into CF spaces and be obnoxious.
People seem to take it really personally when someone else doesn't want or like kids.
Ntayrt but this is what did it for me. I love children till they hit a certain age. Once they start being more influenced by their peers than their parents they become total fucking dickheads and ime they undervalue their mother's labor, even making sexual/degrading jokes about her. This doesn't apply to girls so much but as a former girl I know that I was a little brat to my parents as well although my family was extremely toxic
. I could not put myself through the sacrifice that kids bring and then be talked down to like a servant or like I'm the worst mom ever when they get mad. My mom abandoned me after a certain age and it kills me to see so many people giving their moms a hard time over menial things. Or even the other people who claim their parents are narcissists yet their parents are still taking care of their fully grown asses living and receiving no benefit from it. I think I see it happening in the younger generation where people are alienating themselves from family members at the slightest bit of ideological disagreement, see this video here. I'm left-leaning but GC and I couldn't even imagine having a kid with the genderspecial doctrine going around.
And btw just remember how many people get thrown into nursing homes by their own children. Their own children hardly ever visit them according to people who work in nursing homes. Kind of makes sense in the US at least because I know a lot of people don't earn enough and don't have enough time off of work to take care of their elderly relatives. It's just safer not to bother with it if you're not set on having children. Don't let a scrote talk you into it, tell him to donate money to womb transplants so he can carry the baby himself kek.
Yeah, I discovered this when I was dating my previous ex. He insisted on having kids and would talk up motherhood, how fulfilling being a parent was, and so on. He wanted at least 2 kids, I said I didn't know if I wanted any. To him, that apparently meant "convince me". Whenever we walked past parents with their toddlers, he'd comment on how precious the kids were, when I saw some boys outside playing ball I said they were cute and he asked if I was "getting that baby fever yet?". He swore up and down he would cook and clean because his family isn't like my shit family.
Then we had to take care of my nephew for a weekend. I already had to care for my youngest sister growing up so I was no stranger to raising kids, but this man did nothing. When I straight up told him what to do, he wouldn't do it and would leave all the work for me because "I was better at it anyway". He stood around like an absolute retard all weekend and wanted actual praise for distracting my nephew with toys for a little while. Then he had the absolute balls to tell me "see? that wasn't so bad!" when my sister picked her son up. Never have I dumped a man faster.
My father is the same but he was a shit father to begin with so I don't feel like I owe him anything and neither should you. Him pressuring you to continue the bloodline is already very selfish and abhorrent.
But to make you feel better, you should keep in mind that nothing matters and we're all going to die and so having progeny for the sake of continuing some mythical bloodline is pointless in the grand scheme of things.
I could understand his mentality if you had a family history going back a thousand years, with oral history from every generation of that, but that's probably not the case, and even then it still doesn't matter if you don't want to have kids. Honestly, people's 'bloodlines' die out all the time, there's nothing to say your dad's genes are any more important than anybody else's. The naming/bloodline thing is just symbolic and not respectful of the fact that real people are being created and living for some wack ass idea their family had about being special. (not to be rude, most people aren't special and that's completely fine)
If you really have a personal connection to your ancestors and it's not just another way for your dad to manipulate you, you can write down whatever family history you have. Having children isn't the only way you can honor them, I'm sure you can think of many ways. A legacy of positive change to the people around you will be a much more meaningful legacy than giving a child a name.
Agree with all this, also want to add: I DO come a family that gives a shit about its history and can trace itself back a million years, and yknow, it's really fucking meaningful to me that I have a choice to end my chunk of it. Our genes aren't actually more special, as you say, and beyond that, I know for a fact recent generations were only possible b/c my grandmas had no options. I do. Not to sound pretentious, but I honestly try to really seriously consider how much of a duty I have to really do what I
want when the women who ended up making me didn't. I want to honor my family by learning as much as I can about my foremothers (which is fucking hard, because nobody wrote shit down about them) deeply considering my own life, and doing what I can to make the world even freer for women. And tbh, though I don't want my own kids, I like kids and I want to do what I can to support my friends who do become mothers.
Thanks anons, I appreciate the responses! It's crazy to think that we'll all eventually be totally forgotten as if we never existed. Even notable people like Genghis Khan or Napoleon will be forgotten when the Earth ends.
Ik this is less related to CF stuff but I'm wondering what everyone thinks their purpose in life is? I wanted to do my part and 'maximize' my life's contribution to the Earth. When I was younger I thought this was easily reproducing but now I'm not so sure. At least not in this generation when there's so many problems that exist and will arise as a result of human's negligence towards environmental health and societal unrest. I think words are the best way to be immortalized although there's a big chance no one will care to read your work and you can't overlook that the world will eventually burn. I guess the best course of action is to try and benefit the people who are currently alive atm instead of doing a bunch of shit hoping that something still sticks after you're dead. Please offer your own thoughts though, I'd love to know what other women think in regards to "purpose" and the meaning of life.
nta but you should try to stop thinking about maximizing your contribution since there's no duty to do it. Most of us are average and there's very little that you can do to make a significant change. Work according to your principles, try to make your stay on earth as pleasant as possible. If you care about making a footprint become active in causes you think are personally important but that's difficult because most causes get hijacked by corps the moment they get any sort of traction however I digress.
It's depressing to know that anything we do doesn't matter in the end. Earth doesn't matter. That's why I'm an antinatalist even though that's a touchy subject for some reason because life has no purpose at all and anyone with a bit of sentience can come to this conclusion. So sentient people are burdened with this struggle to carve out an iota of meaning to make this life more bearable while there really isn't one. Dedicating yourself to a subject of passion seems to be the best way to pass your time imo.
>>193696>I wanted to do my part and 'maximize' my life's contribution to the Earth
I try to be as eco-conscious as possible but this doesn't really answer your question. I don't know if it's my purpose in life or not, but being in sync with nature and helping it out makes me happy because it makes me really feel like a part of it, if that makes sense.
I don't need more of a purpose than that, just remembering that I'm a distant relative of all the plants and animals on this planet and treating them like family makes me happy. It would make me sad to see it all go away, so I try to experience as much of it as I can and minimise my impact on the environment.
I think people who are deeply depressed and unhappy in life tend towards the doomer mindset which only makes things worse and turns them into misanthropes. Loving nature and helping it out makes me learn to appreciate people because through volunteering I've met so many kind hearted individuals and amazing friends.
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>tfw spanked as a child but all it did was turn me into a degenerate
Thanks anon, I appreciate your thoughts. I can agree with all of your points made and want to apologize for coming off naive. As detrimental as mindless and hedonistic consumerism is to the planet, I feel like one's own impact to fight against consumerism and its effects are pointless. Furthermore since life is so short and unpredictable, your best option of "how to live your life" is to focus on yourself, not thinking too hard about the world and prioritizing enjoyable experiences and the here and now above all else.
Now if ONLY I could actually abide by this and stop being so in my head all the time. Then again I feel like women who abide by that sort of impulsive pleasure-first life philosophy can get screwed over.>>193942
No I don't think many other people do. I'm just a depressed weirdo.
Regarding my life purpose I just want to be healthy, happy, make other people happy and reduce the harm I produce to other people (directly, obviously, but also indirectly) as much as possible.
I don't take myself too seriously and try to stay away from anything that damages my wellbeing and soul. Of course bad things still happen, and I don't want to live in an ignorant bliss either, so that also translates to the way I approach the stuff that isn't as pleasant.
I also believe in contributing to humanity (I'm studying for a career in public service atm), most people give to their communities in one way or another, even if it's not a rule for them.
I agree that the stuff we do as individuals is quite meaningless in a global perspective, but at the same time, when we do good actions, they'll impact someone, maybe in a small scale or maybe not. That's life, honestly. Not perfect and will never be, there'll be bad. And it's going to be unfair and senseless, but there'll also be good. And the good makes us live
I think we are here to witness and enjoy life, and to help others enjoy life.
In a very literal sense I think my mom and dad had children because they thought it would help them enjoy life more. It clearly has given them a sense of meaning and purpose. Albeit religious obligation was part of that.
My purpose is to bring meaning and joy to the people I meet through human connection.
I don’t believe I need to have children to make this happen.
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I just want to be free and have fun, while I'm living anyways, might as well
Honestly I lucked out in the dad department very much and I genuinely love him but my mom on the other hand…
She's one of the reasons of me opting CF, not only don't I want to risk enabling her parenting I don't want her getting involved into any of her potential grandkids. Other is that I'm physically disabled and autistic so it rules out me taking care of my own blood children. Adopting is nice in theory and I could see myself doing it but it's not something I acutely desire? If that makes sense.
Personal acnedote but I often times felt undeserving of the care/ love I got for my sister and dad and I think my shit mom had to do with It, so I guess it depends on the kid? Still not a gamble worth taking for but puberty only exacerbated my disdain for my mom and I only ever gotten frustrated at my dad for staying with her rather than any real fault on his parenting per-say. I still get a bit frustrated about him staying with her but that's the bed he made so he's going to lay on it. I just wished he didn't have roped us into being traumatized by her winch is why I have a knee jerk reaction when I know parents procreated with someone with known abusive
tendencies in the past??
It's either myopic at best and selfish and enabling at worse. I think in case of my dad is myopic resignation as his quite old and nostalgic towards my mom when she wasn't a megabitch in sheep's clothing.
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>'The Many Phases of Your Post-Baby Body, Explained': www.healthline.com/health/pregnancy/your-after-baby-body-explained
As a bonus, this article literally calls women "birth persons".
This stuff is just more reasons for the con side of my pro-and-cons list for kids. Any one here do something similar, have a mental list of arguments both for but predominantly against having kids?
I'm sort of envious, I've internalised the mantra that I am too young and too traumatised to know, there's also no way anyone will sterlise me for at least another eight years if not more, or ever.
I think what I really want is not to have to choose between wanting children and not wanting them. And by that I don't mean getting accidentally pregnant, but sort of wishing I wasn't alive to have to figure out whether or not it is ethical to put another sentient being on this planet.
>>199269>whether or not it is ethical to put another sentient being on this planet.
I'll just quote Khalil Gibran>Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
You know nothing of the future the children will bring. They might surprise us all.
Samefag, here's the entire poem
because maybe you haven't had it in your school curriculum and it's worth reading:
Your children are not your children.
They are sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you.
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For thir souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the make upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness.
For even as He loves the arrow that flies, so He also loves the bow that is stable.
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I think life is good, but that the world is fucking terrible and I can't even comprehend how we're using up all resources with how numerous we are yet have a system hell bent on making MORE people no matter what
I genuinely believe we were meant to live in small familial groups and that anything else is unsustainable and extremely unhealthy, both for the body and the soul
Women not wanting to have kids and men becoming vain incels is pretty much exactly what happened in that infamous rat utopia experiment, I know rats aren't humans but it seems to be a completely normal reaction to feeling overwhelmed with the sheer amount of people existing around you
I'm like her, and people have a really hard time wrapping their head around it. They're always going "but why".
I just say not having kids is my default. I'd need reasons to have children, but dont need any not to have them since it's my default state. They sometimes understand when I put it that way.
Maybe you're just a retard, anon. As long as we've had writing, people talk about how bad life is.
I was reading Pope Innocent III's writing the other day and he talks about how disgusting people are for being filled with dread, anxiety and depression knowing they're brought into the world to die. Then they procreate anyway to please themselves.
This was in the 12th century.
Hard agree, nonna. Pregnancy can lead to so many other complications, too. Like many women experience "loose-ness" after giving birth even once…and many others. Your body can experience irreversible changes.
However, I wouldn't say it's a 'no biggie' for other women - I think they see it as a phase you have to go through to have a child, and they just suck it up. Sometimes multiple times.
I sometimes think parents are just coping when they tell stories like these as fun adventures, but it is also perfectly possible that they genuinely enjoy this. Good for them, I guess. What annoys me is that he describes his life before as "boring" because he would just go to Subway, eat and leave. I always think it is kind of sad when parents find their own pre-children life or a childfree life in general "boring"; if anything, they
are boring. And he will probably go back to feeling bored once his children have moved out because there won’t be anything to inspire him according to this story. Well, unless there will be grandchildren which he is already sure of. This also rubs me the wrong way; the kids are still super young and he is already planning for grandchildren which is so creepy.
Stories like these reassure me of my CF-leaning stance as well. There really is nothing quirky and funny about it and even if I was a mother and loved my children, I would hate this. I often feel the same when I look at my explore page on Instagram and toddler/baby videos appear. And I am not even talking about toddlers shitting themselves in a Subway, but toddlers having tantrums or destroying things. These usually get so many positive reactions, but I often feel very repelled when watching them.
And yet look at 99.9% of all fathers, they may seem
nurturing and caring but most of them still refer to parenting their kids as baby sitting. It's still the mothers doing the majority of emotional and physical labor when it comes to child rearing. Boys will be boys and men will be boys too. Don't fall for the fairy tale nona.
Plus being a parent is not the only way a person can be caring and nurturing, and in fact most people that think like this scare me because they tend to lack empathy towards anything or anyone they don't see as theirs.
I've never really thought about it like this before, but that's such an interesting and scary concept. Like >>203864
I find the idea of losing autonomy viscerally disturbing. I don't even like it when people I don't know well hug me, so I can't remotely imagine being so passive and comfortable being objectified that pregnancy wouldn't phase me. It's definitely true women are groomed to be like this from an early age which is so disturbing. Not saying women who wanted to be mothers are "objects" but it's the concept of some people essentially loaning out their bodies with such little care and awareness.
I think it never happens for some of us.
I had a girl back in high school, 12th grade, who was so obsessed with babies she ended up getting pregnant like 2 weeks before graduation.
So I think it might be a bit random or maybe it heppens to some after they achieve all other "milestones" in life? Idk
I always chalked my "I hate kids"ness to being too young. The more I age the more I find them cute, but I still don't want them.
>So I think it might be a bit random or maybe it heppens to some after they achieve all other "milestones" in life? Idk
Maybe. I thought I'd want them after I met a good man, but I met my bf who is awesome and I still don't want them. I'm financially well off, have a good man, a stable future, etc, but the desire isn't there.
I'll probably end up freezing eggs just in case, because I'm a "soft childless" if that makes sense. I don't want kids but I know I may in the future, and don't want to completely cut off that ability.
>>205110>I'm younger than you and I started having baby cravings randomly one day during sex. With that being said, I am perfectly healthy with no underlying illnesses, drug free, medication free, never on bc, and yet for the past year, I have not been able to get a positive test once.
Are you trying for a kid?
Despite not wanting kids, I do go mushy at my bf being nice to animals and children lol.
>Also, my mother had me in her mid 40s on the first try. After that, she had another child and hit her menopause in her mid 60s. Zero complications.
Oh wow, lucky woman! I don't know if I'll be that lucky, I was premature and difficult haha.
>After all, would you want to be born knowing your mother didn't really want to have you, but felt pressured?
My mum always loved kids but my parents fully admit that they might not have had me so early if they weren't pushed to by their parents.
I don’t think her kids are brattier than others, they are usually fine if they have something to do. They do get picky with food but I think it’s normal for their age.
My dad is an alcoholic though so I think that makes him a worse person to be around on the days he has off since he drinks. He seemed okay when we were really young but once we were in elementary school and started doing things he doesn’t care about (example: I quit playing softball, he grew up as a baseball player) he lost interest in us. The more I type he’s really starting to sound like a narc, too…
I may need to research this more - but there are really no side effects? And it can be reversed?
Then fucking sign me up lol, though I bet it's not easy to get it done at a young age.
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I've always known that I didn't want to have children, but Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez rid me of all doubt. The chapters about labour really zeroed in on women's unpaid work and the extreme undertaking of adding dependants into your life. Picrel is the passage that officially blew my mind.
I feel like I wouldn't mind that from time to time - but I mean very rarely. Every day sounds like torture. I love the freedom I've worked for (I worked a lot as a young adult to make enough money to finally be financially free), I finally get to enjoy it and I have to now think about abandoning it for a life of a servant?
My parents had a tough time raising me, and I was not a bad kid. Kids are just tough to raise. I don't want that stress.
I sometimes want kids thinking about Christmas, or holidays together etc, but that's just one day of the year. And I think what would stress me the most is worrying about their safety, whether they'd have disorders etc. Helping out at animal shelters or making friends will suit me better than having kids.
This is exactly how I feel, anon. I broke up with my fiance two years ago, who I was planning on having kids with. I wasn't someone who always knew she didn't want kids–I like kids, don't have a horror of pregnancy, etc. But I didn't really know what sharing a home/life with a man truly meant before living with my ex. On literally the fourth day after it ended, it's like this wave of joy came over me when I realized I could now do whatever I wanted. And then I realized all my buried fears about what things would be like when we had kids had become things I could look in the face, because I was no longer doomed to them. I could admit I was scared, and examine it, and that meant I could truly appreciate what I suddenly had. I want to work to make the world a place where women don't have to give up so much to be mothers, but at the same time, I can't believe how lucky I feel to be able to make this choice.
It's so bizarre to see "lonely crazy catlady spinster" stuff now, because I can't believe how exhilarated I still feel when I think about the fact that my life really is my own, now. I feel so insanely free, so intensely grateful to the women who changed the world so that I can live this, and so excited to do exactly what you described: lose my compulsion for male approval and learn everything I want. I have so much more TIME now. I'm learning to garden! I've gotten really into hiking! I've become such a better cook! I feel so much more CAPABLE, like there really isn't anything I can't learn to do.
What I find most striking is how much older women agree (who 90% of the time have kids and were/are married) with everything I have to say on this. Even ones who are pretty happy with their choices. It's all just made me so much more aware of the fact that tons and tons of women end up locked into choices they can't undo at an early age by having kids, and that there are tons of mothers out there who love their kids, but are also aware of what they lost by having them. I thought I understood why feminists fight for things like abortion rights, education, job equality, and changing things like women's previous inability to have their own bank accounts when I was a teen, but I really didn't. Now I do. And it feels AMAZING.
Because they have different, but sometimes overlapping, goals and feelings. Someone who is scared of pregnancy could still even have kids, just adopted. Childless people’s problem is that they want kids, but the world sucks in some way that they choose the responsible thing to do by not having them. And that’s admirable. Childfree people’s problem is that having kids is compulsory, the default.
The childfree label became a way for people who do not want kids ever
under any circumstance to find other people who feel the way they do and can relate. Labels are not bad. No one is saying childless are less than child free.
In fact, childless people just thinking that child free just means not having kids because they have fertility issues or because they want to be a responsible parent highlights part of the issue:That having kids is something everyone wants and is the default. People can’t even conceive that simply not wanting a child is a thing, and that you don’t have to feel guilty or messed up for it.
Very well said.
Do I wish more people would understand me? Sometimes. All my gay friends understand me. Others have a very hard time understanding deviation from the norm.
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I bought a SEX AID that controls penetration depth for women with pelvic pain (I have flares that can make deep PIV uncomfortable) and get this in my email inbox the other day after months of standard sexual wellness marketing. Breeders will literally do anything to tell the world they got creampied, even hijack the marketing and education email of a glorified cock ring.
Damn. I've heard of the product and I considered getting one but I'm now between partners so in no rush atm. Some women buying that product are doing so because they had cancer. Some forms of cancer (or cancer treatments) can make you infertile.. they know a portion of women buying this are survivors of those types of cancer because I've seen them mention that on product pages and in ads.
They should have a system where you can opt in to certain emails depending on your reason for purchase. That way infertile women (and just uninterested women) arent sent this shite unless they want it.
I just had my fallopian tubes ripped out so there's literally no path from the uterus to the ovaries for an egg to be fertilized. Was an immense
relief, highly recommend for women who 100% know they're childfree. Don't have to fuck about with contraception (with a stable partner) or worry about something going wrong
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If I had a child, I wouldn't leave the house with it until it was fully capable of independent movement, speech, personal hygiene etc. Bring back breeching!!
In all seriousness though, I'll never have children, I can't stand them.
I strongly suspect my sister is, she's tokophobic for sure (but young so idk yet), my uncle is and lives a based life surfing around the world, my dad discouraged me from having kids and says he doesn't want to be a grandad, my mother's never mentioned it. We're not very social and my extended family is tiny so having kids and niblings and grandkids running around never seemed very important or expected of us.
That said it's a different situation to you emotionally, I'm extremely close with my immediate family and that's part of why I don't feel the urge to have kids. There's no void to fill, I don't need a family of my own when I've already got one.
Same situation, very cold dad and doormat anxious abused mom, there was never any family bonding, no talking about feelings or opinions or anything specific to us. All talk was small talk and logistics, or emotional vents from mom. >already worry that my relatiosnhips are unhealthy because bad parenting leaves you with these emotional injuries and it's not a small task to get working on them
Too many ppl just keep the cycle of abuse going by thinking it'll just work out when they have kids.
I don’t have any siblings and just one cousin (all other uncles don’t have children), so my family is definitely on the brink of extinction. Perhaps my partner’s sister will become a mother one day so that at least his family will live on, but she recently mentioned that she is not that interested in children, either. I don’t care about passing on our family genes and name, but it is a bit weird that the family perhaps is done. Just yesterday, I was looking at pictures of my grandma and great grandma, some of them dating back to the 1930s, and I wondered what would happen to all these memories when I, the current keeper of them, am gone. I really want to find a solution for that.
To add another perspective to your question about parents, the personal upbringing and being childfree: I have a very close relationship with my parents and often feel anxious about them being old now. I value our time together so much and try to make great memories with them. The close bond we have made me consider children, but I realized that I really enjoy being the daughter in this relationship and the exact bond and dynamic we have, not being a mother myself.
Honestly, anon, as someone who watched my cousin have to go through the same shit with her sister, your only real option is to tell her next time she gets knocked up, it's abortion or adoption. Or you'll be stuck taking care of her kids forever. If she's this irresponsible, I can almost guarantee this won't be the last kid.
You're a much better woman than me, I wouldn't be helping out in the slightest. Maybe for the first, but no chance after that. Shit like this is why I'm so thankful I don't have siblings to make their awful choices my problem. I feel for you, nonnie
You probably feel a man wiling to care for and nurture a small human would be more sensitive and empathetic of his female partner.
Not true. I have seen plenty men who are decent fathers yet terrible husbands. They might be good providers for the mother which is always a plus. But many times they just see the woman as a utility. They don’t necessarily mistreat her but they just see her as a convenient incubator and care taker for their “legacy”. There are many who cheat on their partners too. They figure they work hard and care for their kids, why shouldn’t they have some fun? If she doesn’t find out, no one gets hurt.
Don’t mistake a good father for a man who sees women as complete human beings.
You're right… god I honestly hate men, why do I have to be attracted to them.
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I've known I didn't want kids since I was 8, and I'm currently 28. It's very satisfying to see all the "you're gonna change your mind!" crowd eat their words. It's even funnier to see my sister, who's a mother of 3, say shit like "So whenever you hang with us you grow even more sure you don't want kids, huh" whenever their kids misbehave or are grumpy and shit. Damn right. I like my nephew and nieces whenever I see them, but I legit could never take care of them 24/7.
I'd honestly sterilize myself if it wasn't such a pain in the ass process.
My mom said she fears that I won't have anyone to take care of me on my old age like I do for her sometimes, but spoiler for edgy I'd rather kill myself when I am older than to have children and be responsible, even if just emotionally, to other human beings for the rest of my life.
My parents say that to me and they moved away to another country so they don't take care of their parents lol.
I'm not so fussed about my kids taking care of me, the second I piss myself or can't get out of bed alone I'm offing myself.
Agree with absolutely everything.
>Though if I am having children it'll definitely be through a C-section because I am not popping anything out of my vagina.
Doesn't C-section ruin your abdominals and leave a huge scar? As in vaginal birth has a chance of going wrong, but C-section always leave a result like something went wrong.
I'm hugely into fitness and don't want a big scar or ruined stomach, but at the same time I don't want incontinence and a ripped vagina.
>>220176>if my future boyfriend/husband wanted children I wouldn't be opposed to it. I just don't care, I don't oppose it and I don't want it
The last guy I dated, his brother had 3 daughters that he was mostly raising. The mom saw them on the weekends (a reversal of the usual divide of child custody between the genders) When I asked it turned out she had been pretty ambivalent when it came to motherhood. She had the kids more so for him. When they ended she was about as commited to parenthood as a you'd usually expect a divorced dad to be, hence the reversal. Her heart wasn't in it. She was giving 20 percent to motherhood. She was better when they were still together but once the split happened it was clear she wasn't going to be the main parent.
Thing is though, the dad signed up for that yet was bitter as fuck about it. That and the mom had some new bf who wanted babies… so she was about to repeat the whole 'well if you want them I guess we can' plan. It was beyond messy. Sad for the kids. My ex and the bro constantly bashed her for not being a full on mommy but she was only on par with the same shit men do every day. Bad decisions all round.
That sucks because I feel kids suffer more if they have a bad mother vs a bad father. idk.
I can't imagine shitting out 3 kids that I'm ambivalent about though. Going through all that body horror for something meh.
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Reminds me of picrel
I watched a doc a while back where a man did this, he told the woman to just give birth and he'd look after the baby for the rest of its life as a solo parent. She was in college destined to get a great job and she hated kids, she also no longer wanted anything to do with this guy. For some reason she agreed and gave birth. The doc was made while the kid was only about 2 years old. It featured the guy admitting he regretted doing it. His elderly parents helped out with the raising.. provided alot of free help. He just acted like a victim
. Talked about how being a single parent is about he most depressing thing on earth. He wants to date but the baby gets in the way? He got exactly what he asked for…exactly what he pressured and forced her into through guilt tripping. Someday that kid will be old enough to know his dad essentially went on camera wishing he'd never been born. He forced him into this world only to wish he didn't have the burden of him taking up his life.
He admitted that deep down he thought the mom who agreed to never meet the kid.. would somehow come around, raise it and maybe even be his partner again?? That wasn't what they agreed to at all. What kind of fucked up manipulation is that. I would say that I'm glad it backfired but then I feel too much for the kid.
Maybe you gotta expose him to a male role model who treats women well, or at least better than this kek
Could be a tv character too.
My sister is pregnant under shitty life circumstances and she's always been broody so she's definitely having this baby.
Obviously her choice but I already pity this kid. She is mentally ill, obese, lives a total hikikomori hermit lifestyle with few social skills, has a shitty job and lives in a tiny apartment with a special needs dog. She will definitely move back to our mother's house for free childcare.
Talking to our mother about this, that I'm worried about her and this future child's quality of life, I got a lecture that "being a mother is her purpose in life" and my mother has been depressed and empty since her kids left home because she thinks it's her only destiny to take care of her kids.
The best part is she did a pretty bad job raising us lmao and resents me for being independent, now I see why. I guess I should be more like my other sister who's an alcoholic always borrowing money, what a good daughter letting our mother express her maternal destiny.
I asked my mother: what about having another purpose? Art? Making people's lives better? She waved that question away.
I'm not saying I have a superior destiny (or any destiny) but fuck, I find joy in music, in my friendships, in doing a good job at work, caring for my pets. All those things fulfill me and make me feel purposeful.
Anyway the point of this rant is, I'm glad I'm child free and don't need to make a whole new person just so I feel like my life isn't pointless.
To add on to this, if I decide to date again I’m gonna be so careful about being up front about not wanting kids. My ex who I broke up with for multiple reasons also wanted kids, and his response to me not wanting them was “you aren’t willing to make that sacrifice for me?” like, what? Of course not. He’s never even changed a diaper or had to look after a child before, he didn’t even start doing his own laundry until recently lol what makes him think he automatically can care for a child.
I feel like everyone should have to take care of one for a year and then they can make the decision to have children. They always say the same things “who’s gonna take care of you when you’re old?” “What about leaving something behind when you’re gone”. If I’m dead then obviously I won’t care, nothing will matter then anyways and there’s no guarantee that your child will look after you when you’re old, look at all the people in retirement homes with kids who don’t even visit. It’s just not worth it unless you 100% want it.
>>224860>because most people do change their mind.
>It's just too soon for you to know what you will want in 10 years.
Then the other way around would be equally true too but again, no one tells a 20's woman "don't have kids yet, you may change your mind when you're 30!"
>>224864https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6659743/>One-quarter of women in the NLSY-79 cohort ever reported an expectation for childlessness but only 14.8 percent of women remain childless.
It's literally the most normal thing in the world to change your mind about. In your 20s you are still busy figuring out your own life, experimenting, going through a lot of maturing and changes. Of course you aren't thinking about having kids. Plus you probably haven't found anyone yet with whom you would want to have kids.
I have no issues with people who chose not to have kids, but saying you know FOR SURE at 22 that you will never have kids is just immature and retarded and older people tell you that you will change your mind because they were just as immature and retarded as you as one point.
What that tells me is that a lot of those women just had unplanned pregnancies. Many people end up going through with having kids just because they happened to get knocked up and say, “well I guess we’ll just be parents now.” They don’t actually put much thought into the decision because they think it’s just something you’re supposed to do as an adult.
For what it’s worth I’m 30 and my opinion on not wanting kids has not wavered in the slightest since I was 22, not even after finding “the right man” (he also doesn’t want kids kek). Some people change their mind, some don’t.
Yeah I mean it's just a fact of life, every childfree person knows someone who insisted they were cf and ended up not being (there is constant complaining about it).
I don't need the majority of people to also be cf for validation and I don't need reassurance that I'll never change my mind, I can only hope that if I do my entire personality also changes by then. My current personality should not have a kid. That said the study shows that the older you get, the more accurately you predict not having kids and I'm 30 so it's probably pretty certain by now.
deleted because i didn't add my age, but probably around the same time i'd realized i'm not interested in things like dating or sex in general, in my teens
to me its another thing most women are pressured to do that i'm not interested in doing, plus the thought of losing autonomy that way is disturbing. i know it's never going to happen/tinfoil but i don't want my uterus harvested for children in any way shape or form, for women or failed men