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File: 1656822607168.jpg (128.16 KB, 700x700, hey girl were your parents ter…)

No. 273185

Can we have a butch thread? I like all the women on this site, but there are many conversations and threads about things that just aren't in your life or brain at all if you are butch and I thought maybe we could all talk about our stuff instead of nodding politely at the posts about stuff girls "have" to do?
also, i want a place to show off my new cufflinks and collar stays and such

No. 273186

Sounds cool to me. Show your stuff off and let's see if we can get this thread going.

No. 273189

File: 1656824025629.jpg (445.33 KB, 1280x1280, Tumblr_l_870250744904638.jpg)

Bless our cowgirls.

No. 273190

nta but what are some off-the-rack stores with small sizes in the west? i'm a 14 shirt in north america and some menswear stores on the big shopping street in my city (canada) still have mall-type sizing.
uniqlo and muji are in canada now. they have good small stuff. [/spoiler]i'm 177cm and 57kg[/spoiler]

No. 273192

I usually just thrift but H&M, the brands you listed, random Asian brands (Shein) and XXL or XL little boys or large/xl boy juniors will fit decently. Only thing with little boy clothes is that the neck holes are a bit small for Tshirts.

It depends on your breast size of course but if you're flat, this could work.

No. 273233

Can a straight women be a butch or a bisexual woman or not. Also what is the difference between butch and tomboy. Also do any of you change yourselves for others. Thank you for answering my questions

No. 273246

oh you buy shein? i have too many problems (paranoia?) about fast online retailers. something bad is happening if you look at shein's prices. they must be sourcing from very badly treated workers.
i've never even thought of looking at children's clothing but I guess here the children's stuff would be tall enough for an adult kek

No. 273260

- straight women can't be butch they're just gnc or tomboyish or they're just women. Being a butch hinges on your relationship with other women and the nuances that your interactions take on in contrast with her as well as your presentation. You can't be butch in a relationship with a man.

Bisexual women can be but imo it's only butch in the context of relationships with other women.

Butch is not just a style or look, though that's part of it. Traditionally it's a role, a feeling about yourself, and a lifestyle no matter what 'type' of butch you are.

- tomboy is a boyish or gnc /non 'traditionally' feminine woman. A butch is a lesbian who takes on a certain role, has a certain style, and engages in a certain lifestyle / view of herself as butch. What that means to her varies but nonetheless it is butch. There are some stereotypes but it's up to the woman.

- Depends on the person. Not personally.

- You're welcome.

I do at times yea. I've had this same thought and while I'm sure they're hiding something, I've done some research on what is available on Shein and they pay their workers pretty well/conditions (as reported currently) are much better than other fast fashion sites due to the way they handle production.

That said, I don't cape for shein and I order for them more for ease and cost than anything. I'm still contributing to the problem and don't deny that one bit. One day I won't order from them anymore and don't blame you if you don't. In fact, I commend it.

You'll find some surprisingly nice things in the boys/teen boys section and it's very comfortable.

No. 273324

yes their stateside workers/sales people are paid the wage for the country they live in, but i meant the textile workers. if you buy a crochet item like girls to for bikinis or those crop top things, remember crochet can only be done by hand. if ther is a $3 crochet item, it was made by a child for pennies instead of a living wage. h&m may pay its store staff properly, but i am concerned with the textile and garment workers

No. 273327

Same anon and I agree with you. I unfortunately don't remember where the article I read was for interests sake but that is true. Even if the textile workers were being paid fairly (if I recall it claimed so) that's still incredibly grueling work and likely not work that one can do by choice. If they're paid fairly it's work that one would stay in for that sake which limits options and if not, it's more slave labor for the sake of fast fashion so it's lose lose in that regard.

Supporting is supporting so I'll be sticking to my usual methods (thrifting) instead. I appreciate your civility.

No. 273334

I hope this thread doesn't die!! Maybe this is not the place for it, but recently I started dating a male and all other confusion related to that aside, I feel guilty still considering myself to be a butch for the reasons you state. I don't even want to say the word bisexual now that I'm straight-passing. It's nice that this man doesn't get upset when people think we're both men, but now I'm sitting on my computer having one of those "I don't even know who I am" crises like one of those zoomers I've heard so much about.

No. 273336

ayrt - i seriously bought a $200 running shirt because it was ceritifed/clearly shown to be ethically produced. I have $25 pairs of underwear as well, that i buy from a woman who makes them in the market where i live. my friends give me shit about it and call me "bougie" or whatever the fuck but at least i do what i, as one person right this minute, am able to.at least i didn't buy my family $25 worth of clothes from walmart workers who can't even feed theri families.

No. 273342

Well if you can afford it you do you, but those Walmart workers have to be able to buy clothes too.

No. 273343

I understand what you're saying. I stand by what I said, but case by case basis always get more sympathy from me.. you're still a same sex attracted woman, you're still butch when you interact with women, and so on.

I'm sure it would rub some people wrong but just do you and don't have a zoomer style crisis. It's not worth it to give yourself a complex. Hope your relationship is going well and best of luck w/ everything bi butch nona.

You're not bougie for it and that's admirable but remember that not everyone can do that. Don't get on a high horse.


No. 273344

Oh and, I'm just someone on an image board. Do your thing, you know? I believe in protecting things like being butch because it's important and so many things are watered down to nothing these days but don't let me or anyone else online shake your confidence if you feel butch.

No. 273491

God bless OP, I've been waiting for this thread for all my life.

So anyway, how do you deal with only being able to attract bicurious women treating you like a confident diet man who's going to teach them find their inner sex goddess while they starfish and get ready to dump you for a man once they've gained enough confidence? I'm one clingy pillow princess away from moving away to a monastery for the rest of my life because I have shit luck trying to attract other regular women, all of the ones I come across are already taken, more attracted to femmes, honest heterosexuals or just plain not my type. Please someone tell me I'm not alone with this.

No. 273601

Butch is basically a lesbian gender. It's not the only one we have but it's one of the most recognizable ones. I actually disagree with the other anon on bi butches, it's a lesbian exclusive concept imo.

No. 273642

I'm that anon and having thought about it I don't think I disagree with you. Bisexual women and lesbians have same sex attraction in common some of the time but there is a distinctness to lesbianism and the (to use your wording) 'genders' within it. They can be masculine presenting but being Butch/Stud is about more than that.

Using "gender" here is an interesting way to put it btw, yet very succinct.

No. 273646

DA but yeah my understanding of butch has always been "presenting against men" (as opposed to femme presenting for women) so it always strikes me as a bit weird when bi women call themselves that

No. 273660

I think if they're in samesex relationships it's maybe okay I guess? There's historical precedent of bi women calling themselves butches and being called butches, before the term "bisexual" got popular. Since in working class bar culture people just identified themselves as either butch or femme (instead of lesbian), which according to 'Boots of leather, slippers of gold', included the odd bi woman. So I think there could be specific instances where someone could be included despite not being a lesbian

No. 273709

I don't want to sound like a creep and derrail too much this thread but do you have recommendations on media with butches or just butch art? so i can gush at while i wish for a butch gf

No. 274751

File: 1657587401292.jpg (34.89 KB, 590x606, pigpen1-590x606.jpg)

seconding this! I would love to see more butch media/art. I know Catherine Opie does some decent work and is known for her work in the 90s scene. I prefer her self portraits.

No. 274757

File: 1657588391855.jpg (46.96 KB, 703x850, Capture89.JPG)

do you know the name the woman in the photo? i think shes so hot, i have this photo of her in my gallery, i think its from the same shoot.

No. 274758

File: 1657588660562.png (Spoiler Image,1.14 MB, 1047x820, 119b27184b28b213fc5d8a82158c18…)

what are your thoughts on JD Samson?

No. 274761

What a sad butch thread. Bi nonnie trying to make excuses where it's ok to call herself or others bi-butches and someone posting nonbinary genderspecials as butch women. This breaks my heart.

No. 274762

Please nonnie accidentally post a tim that you confused as a women because they're androgenous.

No. 274763

Wtf are you talking about

No. 274803

Then contribute instead of complaining.

No. 274814

File: 1657623564485.jpeg (33.89 KB, 400x451, 35279BED-658C-4BF1-BD56-C4B36B…)

Tomboy to me feels very childish/teenage i’ve never heard older woman getting called that but butch feels like what young and old women/lesbians get called.
There doesn’t seem to be a specific look for tomboys, usually they’re sporty and “with the guys” but I think overtime androgyny started getting more popularized. Butch always had a specific look that can get them easily mistaken for men

No. 274821

thanks for the blog, retard!

No. 274823

God damn, being any level of gay as a woman must be insufferable because I see shit like this every single day on here. Why is everyone so fucking obsessed with labels

No. 274835

>mfw i accidentally caused infighting again and then left the scene

No. 274837

Can we just call this a masc woman general and stop infighting? There's already a lesbian general for lesbian specific discussion. This thread is a magnet for rage bait and trolling and you're all too retarded to just not reply to the rage bait so it's going to be a dumpster fire. inb4 hurr shut up bihet I'm a lesbian and I'm saying this because I'd love to have a thread to talk about female masculinity without 1200 replies of >>274761 style retardation and nitpicking.

No. 274842

Well then why wasn't it called the Masc women thread? Bibutch-larper apologist. It's not retardation or nitpicking your blase attitude on certain words lesbian hold dear being used by women that center men is retarded.

You sad you're getting some pushback on using lesbian terms that don't apply to you? boo hoo.

And help you guys larp better? No thanks.

No. 274855

> You sad you're getting some pushback on using lesbian terms that don't apply to you? boo hoo.

Ayrt, and no, you silly goose! I posted
> Can a straight women be a butch or a bisexual woman or not. Also what is the difference between butch and tomboy. Also do any of you change yourselves for others. Thank you for answering my questions

I think me asking this question in the first place caused a lot of infighting kek
I myself am a homosexual female who dresses idk kind of swag? And didn’t exactly know how people used ‘butch’. I don’t care for labels, I’m curious though. I just feel like the rage is a bit unnecessary fam
I agree, masc woman thread fits way better, and I would love to see it.

No. 274891

do you even get your pussy eaten

No. 275099

She no longer identifies as nb. Last time I checked her twitter she was complaining about butch women getting their breasts removed.

No. 287507

File: 1662997320952.jpg (59.61 KB, 564x1001, d948d8be767c9f28fc66a35aec3f71…)

Thoughts on suspenders? I've been really liking them, feels pretty comfortable.

No. 303817

File: 1670936296801.gif (954.54 KB, 498x303, crumb-simp.gif)

>I'm one clingy pillow princess away from moving away to a monastery for the rest of my life because I have shit luck trying to attract other regular women, all of the ones I come across are already taken, more attracted to femmes, honest heterosexuals or just plain not my type. Please someone tell me I'm not alone with this.
At this point I'm almost starting to miss the clingy pillow princesses or bicurious women treating me like scrote-lite, because this drought is making me go insane. Realistically speaking it wouldn't make me any happier and only fuck me up further, but I just hate feeling like such an incel. I've mainly been attracting self identified asexuals the last few years and that's something I won't get into, I don't want to be shamed for being sexually attracted while being in a relationship. At this point I might as well join a monastery. I get that butch is not attractive to most and I'm not exactly the most attractive butch either and I am a fucking weirdo, the desperation I try to hide isn't exactly attractive either, but come on. I'm legit considering travelling or moving to a different country just to eat pussy.

No. 305508

File: 1672328039359.jpeg (758.74 KB, 2048x2048, FjoPiLtWQAMVZzt.jpeg)

don't mean to vent but im a dysphoric butch who's been on T since 16 after thinking i was a tif and it sucks. i do genuinely have dysphoria and T has alleviated a lot of it but ive been in a really bad state lately (hospitalization, moving) and the two times ive tried to go off T i almost 41'ed. i was extremely masc/butch growing up, cut my hair off after my parents told me no when i was 12, never looked back. the isolation from other women was already hard as a butch lesbian but now i just get read as a somewhat effeminate man/androgynous person and it should make my dysphoria better but it just doesn't. i really do want to be a woman again. any other detrans butches out there?

No. 305527

Not a detrans butch but I spoke with women who had similar experiences on the detrans subreddit's discord. Good luck.

No. 305535

Im not butch by any means, but i wear suspenders at work because the smallest scrub size they have on hand is xs. Thats too big and the bottom of the pockets hit my knee and the bottoms of the legs drag on the floor. At first i was pulling them ALL the way up above my belly button and tying it. But i would get such a tummy ache by the end of the day. So i caved and got suspenders. I wasnt worried how it would make me look or anything. I was mostly worried about having my shirt tucked in and my ass just on show like that in front of a bunch of men. But i sucked it up, dealt with the two weeks of teasing from my coworkers. And i could NOT be happier! My boss even got me these cute suspenders with bones on them! It was around halloween, hence the bones kek. Sorry for the great big blog post of no one curr… im just trying to feel better.

No. 305536

I worry for you nona. I dont know your situation. Please be safe. You are a valuable person and resource and society has misled you. Dont punish yourself or your loved ones for that. I hope you can find peace and maybe get a good therapist.

No. 305540

File: 1672337436721.gif (995.14 KB, 364x217, 872a3784-2b3b-454d-887a-bf3e6b…)

thank you nonny. im genuinely doing a lot better than i used to mental health wise, but my health is turning to shit and im kind of worried it's from the T. i'll get through this and i'm trying to love myself again, it's just very lonely. i don't know what to think of myself after being so passionate about my transition for years, especially as a child, surrounded by other children desperately wanting to transition. i'm just trying to get my feet back on the ground.

No. 325025

File: 1683050268478.jpg (47.74 KB, 736x736, ce6c62e9801e8696f7da0afb0a2d8a…)

dysphoria butch here again. thank you to the nonnas that gave words of support, im officially completely off T as of 2mo ago and im never ever looking back. my dysphoria was misogynistic & deep rooted self hatred and im so much happier, i have a femme girlfriend and im going to college again and all that. sorry to spam the butch thread with this stuff but ive gotten my life back on track and i'm excited about it. im so happy im not a TIF anymore, i don't care about the "deep" voice (i already spoke in a low register so i avoided developing frog voice) or the spotty facial hair. no one will take my lesbianism from me again. much love to all the butch anons on here, it's hard especially when people try to pressure you into thinking you're trans, but you're not alone!
PS, corduroy pants are fucking amazing for a versatile and relatively masculine clothing choice. i have a brown and a black pair and they work so well with my belts and suspenders, plus if you're a short nonny like me the boy's selection is astronomically cheaper than any women's pants of the same type. i got mine from levis. american giant also sells women's hoodies/jackets that are slim fit but very sturdy, with big pockets and solid construction. mine has lasted me like 6 years with some cuff fraying and the build looks identical to my dad's male version.

No. 325027

picrel ^

No. 325030

I’m so happy for you nona!

No. 325036

congratulation nonna! You are so strong

No. 327069

How do I peak my butch gf? She currently believes in all the trans bs and supports them. I admitted to her a while ago that I agree with a lot of radfem ideas (anti-porn/sex work, gender critical..) I’m kind of worried it’s strained our relationship a little and I don’t want her to troon out herself…she’s friends with lots of those people and previously dated a Tim, from what she tells me and what her family has said, he was abusive but she refuses to admit it, probably because he’s trans. It seems like she’s met lots of shitty, gross trans women in her life and knows they’re gross but thinks trans people as a whole are still innocent (most of her friends are tifs). How do I peak a butch? What topics should I really bring up that would get her thinking? She’s more well educated than I am and I feel like I don’t have the right sources or information to back things up

No. 327070

Hell yeah this is great news. Much love to you anon, glad to have you on your healing journey.

Bisexuals can't be butch so your gf is masc since she was willingly with a man before.

No. 327100

I’ve asked her if she’s attracted to men/men’s bodies and she says no she’s disgusted by them and penises. I think when she dated him she was deep in her tumblr handmaiden phase (some guilt tripping on his part too by what she told me) , she doesn’t go to collage anymore or hang around those old friends just follows them through social media. She also told me that in her previous relationship with said male that they rarely had sex/it was really bad… I genuinely believe it traumatized her, he would force himself on her and she refuses to call it rape. She used to take testosterone because the Tim ex talked her into it, she said she regretted it and has stopped taking it since she started dating me
Bi or butch or whatever, I wish there was a way for me to convince her just disconnect from it all

No. 327103

You need to show that you don't hate gender-non-conforming people. I would focus on gender ideology itself. If most of her friends are TiFs she can obviously see they are female and not male.

No. 327125

File: 1683690222217.jpeg (65.6 KB, 750x1094, 7853CCCA-EA36-4FA8-8022-4AC667…)

i don't have specific advice but wish you luck and suggest checking out this collection of women talking about being abused by TIMs.

No. 327226

Thank you! I really appreciate hearing others thoughts!

No. 327320

File: 1683756396234.gif (48.17 KB, 220x160, 1670199793199837.gif)

detrans butch here, i relate a lot on trying to date a tim but mine was with another dumb high school kid when i was in 10th and i dumped him after 2 weeks lmao. if a woman dates a man and realizes she hates dating men that doesn't mean she's automatically bisexual, even if said man is a tim. if we applied that standard to everyone then we'd lose half the lesbian community in america lmao, plus as you showed tims can be super manipulative. the guilt for not dating a "lesbian trans woman" is unfortunately very real in handmaiden and tif circles.
the book the other anon recced is great, but in general in order to peak someone it doesn't have to specifically be about tims. the second sex, the scum manifesto, and a lot of phyllis cheslers work were essential to me peaking. of course you have to bring in dworkin too if you really want to go all in, but the scum manifesto is probably the easiest/shortest read.
don't try to mind game her into this stuff, just be honest and frank. try to draw her attention away from troonery and just love her for who she is, a lesbian butch woman. solidifying my existence as a gnc person and reminding myself i don't exist to be perceived (funny how internalized misogyny/TIF shit connects in that way) helped me SO much.
also go out to feminist/lesbian/women's events. invite her along to stuff, seek out lesbian bars or women's art spaces if there's any in your area. honestly just try to disconnect from the internet as much as possible, once you're out in the real world enough the troonery nonsense fades real quick. the connection to other women is very important too.
and at the end of the day if this really is putting a strain on your relationship please sit her down and talk with her at length. it doesn't have to be pretty. just talk to her as the woman you love and what you want for her, and why you want it. trooned out butches, especially ones who had radfem partners or friends, think radfems or any desisting woman are just a hivemind recruitment force out for blood. be kind, be honest and be gentle. good luck nonna and we all support you! and always remember you can't "save" everyone and if she's an adult woman she has to be responsible for herself at a certain point.

No. 327324

Beautifully written, thank you so much! You’re right no mind games and to be honest. I can’t thank you enough I feel very positive about this now! Congrats on the detransition btw! Very proud of you!

No. 327808

Anons with goldstar standards are immature and show their lack of dating experience with other women tbh

No. 330922

She dumped me, lost cause .. but just asking for when I’m ready to date, what are some signs I should look for in a butch lesbian that tells me she might be a radfem? I’m a femme lesbian that’s very attracted to butch woman I just can’t have it any other way, I think being radfem/gender critical hurt my past relationships and it’s been very hard

No. 330931

I'm butch and when I started dating my wife I would drop in hints by ranting about males a lot. I always said "males" and not "men" to show that I was acknowledging sex not gender. Like if I saw a news article about male violence I would be like "doesn't this shit make you sick? I say we round up all males and kill 'em hahaha just joking". About as subtle as a brick, but it worked kek. I'd also comment on female beauty standards and how it's unfair on us. Harry Potter mentions are good too, I hear a lot of GC women test the waters by mentioning HP/Rowling. If the woman you're interested in is on social media, I'd recommend doing some digging. FTM friends is a red flag as social contagion is a bitch. As a dysphoric butch I also think the language around that is important. I openly say I won't ever be a male, "treatment" is very dangerous and the root cause is misogyny/homophobia. If she isn't acknowledging these things and saying shit like "it's just not for me" I'd be wary. Four of my GNC friends said that and then went on to troon out. If she packs and/or uses a binder that's red flag behaviour even if she is allegedly GC. There's probably more but that's all I can think of for now. I'm sorry you got dumped, nona. But it was probably for the best. My libfem ex really messed with my head, it was very unhealthy for me to be with her. Best of luck in the future.

No. 332886

Thank you for all the tips! Those are all things my ex did and I would ignore them because I was really interested in being with Someone like her. Thoughts on dating a butch who’s heavily into politics? I think the reason she related to mtf trannies was because of the stone butch blues book and they almost all called themselves communists but obviously weren’t
I just want to avoid the same mistakes I made with her
It’s been a month since we’ve broken up and I’m feeling better about it, it hurt a lot because she was my first lesbian relationship and so many other firsts
I’ll try not to clog up the butch thread so much after this, thank you!

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