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No. 409357
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Make up should have never become an ordinary part of women’s daily routines. It ruined people’s perception of beauty. I don’t know much about Pokimane so forgive me if she sucks as a person but remember when everyone was calling her ugly based on these pics? She literally looks so cute here I don’t understand
No. 409379
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>>409357Bitter moids love to post comparison pictures of attractive women with and without make up. "Ha, see womens beauty is only fake!" They are so jealous of the most attractive young women, who also need to put a lot of effort to their looks, because they can make "easy money" by being influencers or doing only fans. While they dont get that as regular/ugly men they can just exist, while regular women are still expected to put in that effort without getting any extra benefits, just to be considered "normal".
No. 409390
i'm too lazy to fall for this psyop kek. even in my most insecure school years all i could do was just eyelash curler, mascara and eyebrows. there was also a terrible eyeliner phase but i don't want to talk about it
>>409353very well said. there's nothing artistic about waking up 2 hours earlier to painstakingly cover up every little "imperfection" before you can even step foot outside
No. 409395
File: 1719409136458.jpeg (1.4 MB, 3464x3464, FABC356D-F40F-4C21-A47D-C388B2…)
You have to be retarded to think the left picture is an improvement. They’re really trying to make us believe that a face covered in sweat (highlighter)and a massive rash on the cheeks (blush) is more attractive than our bare face. Don’t fall for it nonnas. Her phone must be covered in a slight film of oil every day
No. 409413
>>409395I’ll never understand the psy op that women look better painted. People genuinely look at this and think this alien looks
prettier? And then women get treatments to reverse the effects of daily chemicals on the skin kek. It deeply depresses me that every woman I know sinks so much money and time into something like this. Every day? Even my good friend who never wore makeup and identified as radfem started wearing it recently… fuck. How can you be “feminist” and delude yourself on this matter. I really don’t respect women who conform to shit like this and act like they would actually be doing it if the world was normal.
No. 409424
>>409395>>409413agreed.
i'm unmovable in the opinion that every woman on the planet looks better without makeup, however i wear foundation because of my severe acne. i'm a little hypocritical because i still think other women with acne look better barefaced, at most i would say acne and visible acne under foundation look equally gross.
No. 409452
File: 1719426901784.jpg (251.33 KB, 1064x1600, 1000009845.jpg)
I'm kinda split on how I feel about makeup overall. I hate the idea that women need to wear makeup all the time to cover up "flaws", as well as the consoomerism rampant in beauty communities. But at the same time I like seeing the more unconventional makeup some women do where they'll draw full landscapes on their faces or experiment with colours like pic rel.
No. 409455
tbh almost everyone I know who does full drag makeup every time they leave the house is terminally online and extremely insecure. They're the ones that tend to have attitudes like
>>409449 too. but in my daily life, most women I know don't wear makeup or do a minimal mascara/lip tint look. I swear makeup consooming is partially an internet poisoning issue
No. 409462
>>409424If acne is super textured it looks revolting under foundation, it
triggers my trypophobia. But if acne is not textured it just looks reddish so it's not that noticeable without foundation. But honeslty you're at least targeting a legitimate "flaw" that shouldn't be on your face. Women with nice skin putting on clown paint every time they leave the house are just participating in a humiliation ritual
No. 409509
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>>409395I agree but that isn't the best example because not everybody looks as perfect as the right pic barefaced. In my case I have severe dark circles, but I despise wearing makeup. Concealer just looks retarded on me, too. And I have a giant stupid clown nose. So I'm just cursed with being ugly forever.
In my case, I've just sort of learned to cope with being ugly instead of buying products to try and fight it. Beauty is ephemeral, anyway. Everyone made a fuss about Pam Anderson in the 90s, and now she looks like she's made of beef jerky because tanning destroyed her skin. All of the women people gas up for being beautiful will some day look just as mediocre as everyone else, so why even care? Every generation has beauty trends that end up destroying peoples' appearances long term (fillers, tanning, overtweezing eyebrows, etc.)
It makes me so angry that human beings put so much value into appearance. I hate that this culture has made me impulsively dislike women more attractive than me, even though they've done nothing wrong and it's the competitive, beauty-obsessed culture I was socialized in fueling that mistrust. Why the hell are certain things even considered attractive anyway? Like why are noses apparently considered so hideous that everyone edits or modifies them to be as small as possible? Why are giant fish lips considered sexy? It's so mystifying. I genuinely wish that everyone looked exactly the same except for our clothes, and that humans identified each other by scent or voice instead of faces.
No. 409537
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>>409517She looks amazing without makeup, idc what anybody says.
No. 409556
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Great thread. I could go on for hours about how much I hate how women are expected to look flawless at all times. One of my biggest pet peeves are the "realistic" posts from women showing "What makeup really looks like without filters!" How is picrel better than just bare skin? Is cakey theatre-level makeup really more polished than the same bare face a man can walk around in without criticism?
I also have a seething hatred of the Truly brand I stumbled across in Ulta once. They had an entire shelf filled with butt and boob lotions and serums. I can't just use regular lotion on my tits and arse? Or nothing at all? No, here's another thing you need to hate about yourself, that'll be $30+ for the butt cream and another $30+ for the boob cream. Everything about you is ugly and lumpy and you're going to look like shit at the beach unless you buy our special expensive creams. It makes me want to be uglier and lumpier out of spite.
No. 409588
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Makeup sucks because the people trying to sell it have no clue how colors on a human face work.
No. 409689
>>409683Nonny, I don’t mean to sound rude but it makes me a little sad youve been brainwashed into thinking these are necessities. Now, I don’t think you’re a crazy consoomer for owning these products but they shouldn’t be considered a basic routine.
>cleanserYour usual bar of soap that you use for your hands will do. Just pick one that is gentle enough. You don’t need to wash specific areas with different cleansers. It’s all marketing.
>exfoliator Biggest scam because the skin is self exfoliating. They claim exfoliators “help” with shedding dead skin cells faster but I really don’t see the reason as to why that process needs to be sped up in any way. Your skin knows best what speed to shed your dead skin cells in. If you insist on it anyway then using a washing cloth is actually recommended over consoomable products like peelings etc.
>sunscreen It can be a necessity but that’s not always the case. It depends on how much time you spend outside and what the uv index in your country is.
No. 409745
>>409517Her "animal rights activism" is being a figurehead for Peta, which kidnapped and euthanized a little girl's dog (among many, many other shitty things). She also defended known rapist Hugh Hefner, so apparently she's only anti-porn when it's convenient for her.
Infuriating that you completely ignored the point about how beauty trends like tanning are harmful in favor of defending a rich celebrity who capes for rapists.
No. 409758
>>409689>your usual bar of soap imagine having normal skin with 0 issues and thinking everyone is the same lol if I don't exfoliate and moisturize religiously with the correct products my skin breaks out in painful pustules. inb4 "eat better" surely you know more than a dermatologist right
nonny?
No. 409778
>>409745This. I understood anon's point, she wasn't trying to bring Anderson down, she was just trying to prove her point that "beauty" as we know it (young, fit, flawless skin, sex symbol, etc.) is temporary.
I also think it's insane how we have to compare ourselves to celebrities all of the time. Like, goddamit, it's their job to look pretty, but it's not ours. Not only women have to be good at their job, they also have to be good at being pretty, when that's not a skill that should be needed! Or are we expecting plumbers to look like motherfucking Zac Efron?? I wish!
No. 409870
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>>409758Honestly I thought the dietary thing was a meme until I cut out dairy (for medical reasons unrelated to my skin) and it hugely reduced my breakouts. I'm pretty sure it's because dairy cows in Burgerland are treated with hormones, which some people are more sensitive to. I doubt it applies in countries where cows aren't treated with hormones, but it's interesting nonetheless.
No. 409911
>>409882I have the same exact issues. I was fixated on them for so long. I remember when some moid said I looked like an alien kek. That stuck with me so long and made me so mad.
the foundations turn orange on my skin and its difficult to find an actual match for my face and lightning-like eyelid veins. I used to have to mix different shades together it was ridiculous. After many years of trying to find something that worked I have just given up.
The prominent veins are all over my body too, so what am I supposed to do? Slather
toxic paint all over my body each day? Ruin all of my clothes and bedsheets because I feel like the human equivalent of a GBA with a clear shell? I have stopped giving a fuck if people can see the little rivers in my face and whenever I am easily flushed. If someone were to put me down for those features they would not be worthy to be in my presence anyway. I feel so free, even with all my weird crazy blue veins everywhere.
No. 410024
I bought into the makeup and skincare (despite having a 2-3 step routine for fucking years) consoomerism cause I was depressed and just wanna say that your face never needs that much shit and keeping it simple is the best thing you can do.
Still struggling with impulse makeup purchases because I'm mostly makeup free (save for mascara and lip gloss/tint sometimes) but yeah, save your money girls.
>>409579same, I don't have the energy to do a full face every single day,it just seems fucking crazy to me
I remember a girl in uni who for all 3 years I have not seen ONCE without makeup
>>409395this reminded me of when an older moid shooped my pic to be more attractive, and what he did was give me the porn star makeup (black smokey eyes, tanned face with foundation and a dark shade lipstick), I was 20 and was quite pretty, that shit legitimately made me realize how deranged men are when it comes to makeup
>>409689>exfoliatoragreed especially since I fucked up my skin up so badly with glycolic acid it took me ONE WHOLE FUCKING YEAR to recover, NEVER AGAIN
No. 410041
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>>409911I think visible veins are beautiful.
Well, maybe not ONE dead veiny tit like in Shayna's case But overall they look really cool! It's interesting how just around a hundred years ago visible veins used to be a symbol of beauty and nobility. For centuries ladies used to paint their veins to be more visible. Nowadays, women paint themselves to have them hidden at all costs, and obsess over them. How times change! And with times, the perception of beauty does. Only shows how artificial it all is.
No. 410543
>>410541Ot but why are Korean feminist women built so different damn. They’re like the only group of women that actually
do something these days and their moids are some of the worst.
No. 410554
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I wanted to quit make up but I didn’t want to throw my collection away. Donating didn’t seem right either because it feels like I‘d be encouraging other women to use it. So I started incorporating it into my art. It‘s honestly lots of fun. You can use red and pink lipsticks to draw roses, blue eyeshadow to create ocean waves etc. At the end of the day it’s nothing but paint kek. So why not use it as such?
No. 410563
I've never ever worn make-up because my mother hated it (she hated the way it felt on her face and she didn't want to waste time doing it) so I never developed the habit and couldn't even try things out because make-up simply wasn't around in my house. I was bullied very hard during my school years, in my school I was the only one never wearing any make-up and it was beyond humiliating for me because people (both men and women) treat you like a freak if you're a woman who dares to not be attractive. So for years I had this desire to get into make-up and drank up all the beauty guru bullshit so I could be beautiful too (I'm pretty fucking ugly kek) but again I knew nothing about it and my family was against it.
When I grew past 20 and stopped being around a bunch of pickmes and homoromantic fuckboys I started wondering why I even wanted to wear make-up and if it was truly my desire to. I don't particularly like the look of make-up on women, I hate the usual trends that appeal to moids (big lips, flushed cheeks, big dark eyes with fake lashes, highlighter, bronzer, cakey colors), I like being able to wash my face multiple times a day to feel fresh (something I realized only when I was in highschool, I could just wash my face in the bathrooms while my female classmates had to endure 6+ hours of feeling sweaty and oily), and I don't like attracting moids in any way so… why should I wear make-up? And I realized that I don't really want to. I almost always prefer it when I see women without make-up. The only instance I could tolerate it is if I were doing some sort of very artistic look as an art piece or performance, but other than that I don't see the use of make-up for myself. I just get up in the morning, wash my face and get out. I can start doing physical work whenever and I won't feel make-up clogging my skin and getting oily.
No. 410567
>>410560The only thing that completely cured my acne is benzoyl peroxide. I swear there's an acne psyop where you get recommended the most outlandish products, supplements and routines instead of simple stuff that works. At night I wash my face, then I put some BP on my wet skin, leave for three minutes, wash, and then apply a simple moisturizer.
Acne went completely away after a month and it never comes back as long as I keep using it. I don't even wash my face in the morning that's how useless skwincawre actually is.
No. 410842
>>410250yeah I agree with
>>410257 and it's good your friend didn't wear any
I don't get girls who have 0 skin issues but wear foundation, especially the matte cakey type, it looks awful, especially if they're young
>>410588probably wears it for social media and maybe because it might have some spf in it?
I for one always found make-up wearing when going to the gym retarded, unless you just got off work
I might sound like a hater, but you're there (the gym) to swear and workout, not to look pretty
No. 412012
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“Look younger with makeup” tutorials where they use before pictures with no makeup and afters with makeup fascinate me because the women always look more youthful barefaced. Sometimes makeup outright makes them older. There are a few examples (last one in picrel) where they only spot concealed and maybe added some blusher and while it doesn’t make them actually look younger, it doesn’t make them look older either. I’ve spent more time that I really should looking at images like this and it really made me hate foundation, lipstick, and eyeliner specifically. I hate that women are being told that in order to look more desirable, they have to look younger and they have to use makeup to do it when that just isn’t true.
No. 412321
I'm a "tomboy" in the sense that I don't really care for my appearance beyond basic hygiene and the odd leave in conditioner type deal to deal with my curly hair; regardless, it's been an issue since childhood because of my complete lack of interest of all things traditionally feminine, especially makeup.
My older sister and mother have expressed shame several times about it, how they wished I was girlier and shit and it's all so stupid to me. Like I'm some sort of anomaly? To me, beauty has always been the character of the person. Or in terms of physicality, it's the meaning behind its attainment; I find muscles attractive exclusively because they tell of a person's discipline. Strong ethnic features charm me because of the genetic history and implications of its appearance and shape. Things like that. And I like those things about me. Everyone is beautiful, if their character is. Why is makeup a key factor in a woman's beauty? How come that has become the agreed perception? It's so stupid. What caricature does a woman have to be to be perceived as desirable, furthermore, is that sense of "attraction" and "beauty" worth a man's lust or approval? Or a woman's admiration? Why does my mother insist it embarrasses her I'm not as inclined to these things as my cousins are, when my cousin's characters aren't even good? And why is there a shame to not caring what others think? It's all cute and quirky until you actually don't give a shit. It just frusturates me to no end. Also my mom pressuring me to get surgery under my EYES because I have hyperpigmented skin around it, so I look eternally sleep deprived and it's something "I should learn to cover up at least!" Like. I think they're hot. I think my premature under eye lines and laugh lines are hot too. Is that a crime? What if men won't find me attractive? I probably wouldn't have found him attractive either.
Anyway. Sorry for the blogpost, it's been getting super annoying lately. You're hot as you are nonnies, don't let anyone take that breath of life away from you.
No. 413221
>>410546Try using muslin cloth instead.
I still like a nice face-mask with all the oils and acids every now and then, because it does make my skin look nice and give it a healthy glow. It can heal faster too.
I never had a big skincare or makeup routine and I've been cutting on both in different periods and recently again.
Makeup creeped into my life sometime in my early teens and has done some damage regarding my self-esteem and perception. At some point it was the idea of creating some sort of identity by painting the mask on everyday, especially when I was in high school. And I like all the colourful eyeliners and all that but it got to the point where I just skipped school when I didn't have strength to get up early enough to cake my face and go. I would sort of neglect myself for days when I didn't wear makeup, because it was somehow ingrained in my psyche that if I don't perform this entire routine, I wasn't good enough for anything and should just stay home. I am still fighting with this.
I went through a phase with natural eco-friendly makeup too. But I noticed in the last years all these brands just try to recreate the conventional makeup look with their products instead of opting for a no-makeup, almost barefaced look like it was in the beginning. I noticed the mineral foundations aren't any good either. They're just as cakey. Nevermind finding your shade match…
There are so many creators now testing all the foundations available for the fair girls but gosh, there is never the right match. It will either make you look yellow/orange or pull a casper the ghost…
Most of the time I don't wear makeup but I spend most of the time inside. Then when I have to show up somewhere I still feel the pressure to cake my face and I would do it. Though lately I stopped wearing foundation and tried using less of other products. And try to not alter my features with makeup. So I still wear it but minimally.
After a lifetime using it, it really is hard to separate your identity from it and it kinda hurts me when radfems shun you for using makeup. - We were all literally brainwashed and forced to wear it and make it a part of our routine.
I still think it's okay to fill in your eyebrows a bit and put on some mascara. Nothing excessive but it does make me feel more put together. It's just when I try to do the full beat I get some type of dysmorphia and I get it why it is hated.
It does make people look like clowns kinda. The less colourful makeup I wear the more I see it on other women. People seem to be so used to women painting on a clown face though. Like, minimal is nice, a red lip for special occasion - it has cultural significance. But all these makeup trends of the last years, they look weird. They look weird in person.
Speaking of cultural significance of makeup, I was always fascinated by geisha makeup for example, and I tried seeking some interpretations of makeup in the western culture that is anthropological. At the end I came to conclusion that if it is as some say, that makeup mostly came from prostitutes as they were enhancing the features that would encourage arousal, regular women started using it to get attention etc. So I think it isn't surprising that within patriarchal society, men pay less attention to women who don't wear makeup for everyday.
I still think it can be an art form and I mean the people who post their astonishing works not the muas… Film makeup is artwork, theatre makeup is artwork, geisha makeup is artwork. Like, makeup historically was just for a special occasion, special setups, it was meant to evoke specific things. It only had to be normalised because of capitalism as it makes everything special ordinary and disposable.
No. 413226
>>413221>it was somehow ingrained in my psyche that if I don't perform this entire routine, I wasn't good enough for anything and should just stay home.I think a lot of girls/women struggle with this and I think it's one of the most damaging things about makeup/beauty culture. I still have this memory of some girl in middle school who wore a ton of makeup every day showing up one day without it because she slept in and by around lunchtime (her locker was next to mine) she was crying at the locker talking about how all everyone said to her all day was that she looks completely different, tired, sick, is she OK etc and that she regrets coming to school at all. She looked fine. The fact that 13-15 year old girls are already tying their entire identity to their 'makeup' face is pretty disturbing, men don't do this, they will go out and socialize and do their tasks regardless of how shitty they look and no one will say anything to them.
Even though I mostly agree with radfem views about makeup I do still sometimes wear it myself, mainly coverup if I have the odd zit/scab on my face (I know it's still visible but it's less obvious at least) and lip gloss/stain because I have a really bad chapstick addiction/lip picking problem anyway so may as well put on something with a color and be less likely to lick/bite/rub it off, but I'm really glad I never became used to anything more than that because it seems like such a massive waste of time, money, and energy. I would hate to feel like literally crying and staying home if I woke up too late to do my makeup, what a waste of life, talent, etc.
I was thinking about this because of the 'eyebrow blindness' trend lmao and I had the thought that I never went through an 'eyebrow blindness' phase because I stopped plucking my eyebrows as soon as my mom allowed me to (she was the one that started forcing me to pluck them) in freshman year of high school. So I know what my 'real' eyebrows look like and always just assumed that's what they're supposed to look like. The 'eyebrow blindness' problem comes when women are so used to like plucking/shaving off their brows and painting them back on that they forget what their natural features even look like or are supposed to look like. It never occurred to me to 'decide' what shape and color my eyebrows will be, and it's the same with nose contour, overlining/filler, etc… since I just got used to my actual features they look 'correct' to me. The fact that entire facial features go through 'trends' now is so disturbing, like 5% of all women will have the 'correctly' shaped nose for the trend and the rest are encouraged to use illusions to make it look like that's the nose they have. Wtf.
No. 413231
>>413226I don't understand why people are still so compelled to comment on girls and women when they don't wear makeup.
When I decided to stop wearing it or wear it less and one time I went to lectures without painting my lashes and eyebrows, I had a guy point it out to me that I am not wearing a full face of makeup like he was upset about it. And he was gay! Like wtf… And I still had foundation on kek. Also cut my hair super short at the time too so it had an effect I guess. But people will pick on you when they see changes like that. And I'm a conventionally attractive person and even with this people will pick on me when I don't perform femininity or try to break from it what I've been doing the last couple years. It is like they demand the performance. Once you don't they feel comfortable criticising you or overall projecting. When you do, men will take it as an invitation to put their hands on you. There is no fucking escape.
Eyebrow blindness… I saw that trend too. I remember when the 2016 eyebrows were in though I never did the exact routine. The obsession with eyebrows being perfect is insane. Men seldom even pluck them. Some will walk around with a fucking unibrow and women are expected to shave them and paint them back on.
All I do is wax them so the unibrow doesn't grow and some bits that make them too asymmetrical. There's no need to paint on super perfect eyebrows. It looks cartoonish.
No. 413234
>>413231Moids get so weird and possessive of women's bodies whenever women don't do a thing that women are usually expected to do. I was in a college summer math class at a college I didn't normally attend, and befriended some dude who was good at the class to try to do assignments together, but I had to stop talking to him/start avoiding him because he could not shut up about how I should get my ears pierced. Like I guy I would obviously never meet again after 2 months. Like, moid, I met you one week ago and every single time you talk to me you have to ask me why I won't get my ears pierced at least twice and say it doesn't even hurt and tell me what kind of earrings would look good on me and tell me 'most women have pierced ears'. It's weird because pierced ears aren't even something I associate with moid-pandering but it's like it personally offends moids that you won't do any 'beautification' ritual that's considered normal, no matter what it is, even if there's no chance you will ever date them and even if they're gay. They just feel entitled to women being as ornamental as possible, period.
With makeup I think if you always didn't wear it people won't usually comment, but if you start not wearing it after wearing it previously everyone will comment. It's like they noticed the power of the psyop is slipping and they need to keep you in line before you can liberate yourself further from stupid standards.
I don't even deal with the 'between eyebrows' hairs or shape them, I leave them 100% alone. When I first did it people made rude comments but I haven't heard a rude comment on my eyebrows from anyone except my mother in over a decade. It's like the more you do the more people will comment on it, and the less you do the less people care as long as you didn't obviously stop doing something while they knew you. I just don't even think about my eyebrows being uneven or having a stray hair anymore, it literally doesn't matter and ironically people who overthink it end up with really bizarre looks.
No. 413236
>>410541Same nona. This is my main issue with make up. It's expensive and expires too quickly for those of us who don't wear it very often. It's just a waste of money. It's better to invest in skincare or a bb cream tbh
>>410554That's really cool nona
No. 413237
>>413236I don't actually think the skincare industry or bb cream are better. I think it's pretty much the same thing. If you have really
problematic acne that is painful and embarrassing it's probably a good idea to see a dermatologist if it's not hormonal/diet related and see if you can get some like 'medical' product that will help with the acne but otherwise the skincare grift is similar to the makeup grift and perpetuated by the same companies.
I know so many examples of young girls who had fine skin, but started doing 'skincare' because they felt they should, then messed up their skin's barrier/moisture balance with products, which caused acne, dryness, etc. Then they buy more and more and increasingly expensive products to 'fix' the problem that skincare products started, and it becomes a huge time and money sink. BB cream and foundation are probably the absolute worst makeup products imo, at least stuff like lipstick or mascara doesn't cover your whole face in weird chemical goop and damage your skin, and at least it's just an obvious 'look' that you can put on or take off for effect. The 'look' of constantly covering all the skin on your face with a foundation/bb cream is just to make you not used to seeing your natural skin/face at all, and imo is more damaging.
No. 413252
>>409345>>413237It's a never-ending cycle with the skincare and makeup. And no matter how good and helpful some of these products might be the entire skincare regimens are literally a psyop. It started in Korea with the so called soft-power. Korea wanted to have more economic influence and instead of aggressive tactics, they used capitalism and consumerism. They first create trends at home and then influence everyone else. This whole skincare thing started with Korean skincare. Now Americans are simply competing in the market. It has nothing to do with healthy skin. Men use bar soap and they're good to go. You can too.
And yes I know some people have sensitive skin - I'm one of them. Just get the dove bar and some lotion for atopic skin, like a pharmacy one. It's working for me anyway. Up until secondary school I would use dove bar or other soap bars exclusively. It was so simple. Sure, all these cosmetics smell beautiful and that's a part of the everything showers that is so appealing, but you really don't need 10 bottles of soap for each body part. One is good as long as it doesn't disrupt the skin pH. Most of this crap, just like skincare, is just the same substances in different concentrations. They make you buy 10 skincare steps, they all have the same ingredients or different ingredients that do the same thing.
You will buy a thousand of different serums and exfoliators and then your makeup doesn't stick to your face and is clotting like cheese. You can never win. Oh, and makeup foundations and the foundation base hype… I still have some bases I used. The makeup just didn't work without a layer of silicone on your skin. You get a high end base and all - it still ends up caking. There's no winning with this shit. I'm sure capitalism has even more to do with how many makeup products we're urged to buy than the societal norms today.
You lose so much time shopping too. Trying to find the right shade of everything and then companies change the pallets every season… It's insane.
No. 413274
>>413252Yeah I agree with you nonna, I think the 'skincare' thing is largely a racket (I agree with you the multistep skin thing mostly originated in kbeauty, but it was just the excuse other countries' industries needed to push more intense skincare routines) which is just dependent on this 'more is better' idea that isn't even true.
I actually don't use bar soap on my face, I literally just use water to cleanse, and if my skin is really peeling I'll use a soft washcloth to peel it off. I do need some moisturizing/hydrating/occlusive products in the winter because of the harsh winters here, but in the summer I can get away with rinsing with water and possibly olive oil or lanolin if my skin gets a little dry. My skin used to be very 'problem skin' and I fixed most of the issues by almost completely ceasing to buy skincare, I also helped at least 10-15 women I knew with their skin problems just by advising them to go cold turkey off skincare products for a few weeks and see if it helped, most of them said it dramatically improved their skin. I know some people have skin issues that can't be helped that way (I myself needed accutane as a teen because I had horribly cystic acne on my back and torso, so I get it) but I truly believe that at least 50% of most women's skincare concerns are caused by their skincare, not the other way around.
Even for women who like 'dramatic makeup looks' I would suggest just cutting out foundations, concealers, and any complexion product first. Get used to just the real surface of your face. If you like the 'artistry' of makeup sure, do some crazy eye look or lipstick or whatever but why does it need to be on a 'flawless' canvas? It's your face. If you want a 'flawless' canvas for art, paint something on white paper. There, problem solved.
No. 413363
>>411988Well, that resulted from a few factors. Nobles obviously didn't have to work for days on end in the sun, tending to fields and such, so their paleness signified their class. Visible veins meant that you didn't need to lift a finger to provide for yourself. Tanned skin was for peasants, so noble ladies wore masks or parasols when stepping out in the sun. And the paler the skin, the more visible veins became.
But there was also the popular belief back then that nobility had blue blood. Visible veins have a blueish/purplish color. Nobles wanted everyone to believe that their blue blood was heavenly. So, ladies painted their veins more visible, posed in a way that you could see their wrists and veins at all times, had themselves painted in portraits with veins a little more prominent than in reality…It was all the beauty standard of the times
No. 413427
File: 1720644042539.mp4 (638.11 KB, 360x640, 344234324.mp4)
Kinda related since its still related to beauty and makeup, but I hate how normal filters are now. They warp the idea of a normal body type in people's mind. There are people that geniunely would believe that vidrel's waistline is real because it is a video. The worst part is that they would claim you're 'bodyshaming' afterwards.
No. 413431
>>413427My favourite comment about these filters by far is the
> It's not fake because I have the same body type!!brand of coping kek. Like honestly what in the delusion
No. 413540
File: 1720676334113.jpeg (46.42 KB, 375x375, coastal kiss.jpeg)
I remember being a kid back in the early 2010s and beauty youtube really booming and becoming soo obsessed with learning how to do makeup, making myself look like a model, mimicking tricks from ladies like Michelle Phan or Elle Fowler. Begging my mom to buy me a huge Coastal Scents palete for my 12th birthday kek. I didn't stop wearing makeup until I was 17, I just realized it wasn't necessary and was something I could live without. I hadnt really spent a lot of time thinking about how it effected my self image growing up until recently and now I understand better just how sad and innapropriate it is for a young child to want to look sexy or like a grown adult woman. When you're a kid you should be riding a bicyle or reading Anne of greene gables. Not doing a 25 step drunk elephant skincare routine to make sure you look 13 forever and then YASSifying your face with a pancake mix box worth of makeup
No. 413545
>>413274>but I truly believe that at least 50% of most women's skincare concerns are caused by their skincare, not the other way around. I remember a decade ago companies and beauty gurus would tell women to keep using products that gave them breakouts and rashes, because that was just "impurities coming to the surface" of their skin. That's when I just gave up on the whole concept of skincare. No company that says stupid shit like that is selling a quality product.
>>413252>There's no winning with this shit.IAWTC. You research and buy what should be the right product, it doesn't work. You buy another product, then it doesn't work, and you find out you need some other product to pair with it. Then you buy that and it still doesn't work. It's just round and round in circles, and if you do find something that works, it will get discontinued next year.
No. 413552
>>413545>keep using products that gave them breakouts and rashes, because that was just "impurities coming to the surface" The only time that's true is with certain oral medications like accutane, where I think most people do have a 'purge' for a couple weeks because they're taking the medication internally. If I put some kind of cream on my face that's supposed to be 'soothing' or help 'repair' my barrier and it immediately makes me itch and get a rash there's no way you could get me to put that shit on my face again. One of the reasons women struggle so hard with this concept is because young preteen/teen girls with the first signs of acne are often acclimated to very harsh products like salicylic acid and benzoyl peroxide from a very young age and told it's actually helping prevent more acne when it gives them skin issues. Then as they age they just purchase more and more products to fix the issues the products they're already using cause. It's like the obsession with skin exfoliation - your skin naturally exfoliates itself, but if your skin is constantly peeling chunks for a reason other than eczema or a sunburn, it's probably because you're using too many other products on it. You don't need to scrub it off and use acids to make it peel even more to chase the dream of it eventually, finally being smooth at some point down the line. The most insane shit I went through is realizing I'm allergic to most makeup on/around my eyes (I wore it so rarely it took me a few years to notice the pattern), and having people tell me that I should just use corticosteroid cream on my eyelids to treat the eczema that eye makeup causes rather than just… not wear eye makeup. Like you're seriously telling me to induce an allergic rash on my eye area and then treat it with steroids just so I can put on mascara?
I know this is the cosmetics critical thread but if women absolutely must try out skin products to treat some issue on their faces they should at least A/B test them on half their face for like a few days to a week first and see if there is any improvement. You're not going to get much info about what 'helps' you if you buy 12 products and start slathering them on the entire surface of your skin right away.
>and if you do find something that works, it will get discontinued next year.This is why I try to stick to products I can find anywhere like olive oil or pure lanolin for mastitis, these things never get discontinued and they do work as moisturizers, but someone will call me a grandma for saying this. I'm sure there are moisturizers from skincare brands you could get that would probably work for you but like you said the cycle of always trying new things and testing them out and then them getting immediately discontinued or reformulated is exhausting and I think cosmetics companies do this on purpose to keep people buying more unnecessary shit. If their products were so good to begin with they wouldn't keep needing to reformulate them and put out new products and discontinue old ones. My mom and grandma have always used the nivea blue tin cream as a hand moisturizer and it's been the same formula since before I was born and costs like 10 dollars, we had moisturizers that worked decades ago so what is the issue.
No. 413933
>>413920I don't know what sort of care those people had, but I had to go back to the dermatologist regularly and he absolutely checked up on my mental state. One time I cried (purely because I was embarrassed about my skin) and he decided I was 'emotionally labile' over it. I think anyone with concerns or pre-existing mental health issues/anything that runs in the family should be able to discuss it with a derm and be monitored closely throughout treatment.
The truth is for me, my acne made me sincerely depressed and accutane was the only cure for it.
No. 413943
>>413933I’m glad it helped you!
Based on their families, I think both had decent care, but for both of them I think it came out of nowhere. The guy that it happened to was a student at my high school that I was acquaintances with. He was literally pulled out of school overnight for a month after a suicide attempt that “voices” told him to do and came back a zombie. Then a few months later, he got off antipsychotics and was basically the same person again. The girl had a similar story but she said she didn’t remember it well but over the course of like a week or two she started physically threatening her little sister and barricaded her room at night because her family was trying to kill her. So idk it seems like both were on it for some time with no issues then they both started going into psychosis out of nowhere
No. 413948
>>413932Interesting, anon. I know the original suicide black box warning on Accutane was based off I think only one reported case, and when I looked into how it might affect the brain I couldn't find much research on it so I assumed it might have been a coincidence. However if you know multiple people who went crazy on it there probably is some way that it might be affecting people's brains and mood. A lot of brain changes and mental health actually are controlled by the gut so it's always possible that any medication you take orally will affect your brain or mood, even if it's not supposed to be a psychotropic drug, but I'd be very curious what it is that makes some people react so horribly to Accutane mentally while most don't (I knew a few people who took it and none had any mood changes). For me it was a huge improvement in mental health actually because I was so much less insecure and upset all the time when my skin issues improved. It's kind of embarrassing looking back but I was so depressed over my skin that I missed many opportunities to socialize, go out, exercise, etc. and would spend hours every day obsessing over my skin which it freed me from. I've occasionally gotten milder surface acne on my face since but nothing like the acne I had back then, and it's much easier to deal with mentally.
>>413933Same here anon, when I took Accutane I was monitored monthly by my dermatologist (monthly blood tests for liver markers as well as mental health checkups). They would have pulled me off it immediately if there was anything concerning.
No. 413949
File: 1720767455457.png (297.96 KB, 548x251, Untitled.png)
used to cake my face in foundation and concealer and put eyeliner on, inside the waterline every single day. i feel so much freer now that i just let my "flaws" aka pores and the occasional pimple be shown without a care. the only time i put on makeup is if i feel like it when i go out, and i do minimal makeup, just liner on the top lid, mascara and possibly some eyeshadow. i've been inspired by the way mia goth does her eyes, it's easy and cute.
No. 413951
>>413950now i can hardly stand it, which is why i like the top liner only, but back in the day, i was so used to the feeling i didn't even flinch. my poor nerves were so numb to it i guess. the concealer/foundation was big for me though, and honestly, although covid fucked a lot of things up it also forced me to stop using it so much and after finally just accepting my "imperfect" skin it seemed to naturally become more clear after awhile. i hate the way concealer feels now. i used to put on MULTIPLE layers of it before i went anywhere because i hated having any texture. ugh. so much of my life was spent and wasted on trying to make it look like i didn't have any pores.
and guess fucking what, men don't leave you alone any less anyway, lmao.
thank you, it was a long journey.
No. 413953
>>413951I'm so, so glad I never started using concealer/foundation (except for spot coverup on pimples occasionally) because I feel like once most women start feeling like they 'should' cover the entire surface of their face in a paint layer, and get used to how that looks/feels, they seem to have a really hard time stopping. My friend never wore foundation, had the most flawless skin I've ever seen for the 10-ish years I knew her, and then for some reason decided to start wearing it occasionally to 'look more put together' for work events. Now she wears it even when she works out/goes on a hike or something, and is complaining about getting acne which she never did before, and I'm like not to be rude but… these problems started when you started putting foundation on your flawless skin.
>i hate the way concealer feels now.The few times I had to wear it like for theater or dance shows it felt so horrible to me, itchy and it made me so self conscious because I felt like I had to avoid touching my face at all costs which normally you just do without thinking when you're used to not wearing it. It always made me sad to go to the beach with friends and they would say 'oh no I can't swim because my makeup.'
No. 414218
File: 1720849754006.jpg (77.2 KB, 564x1001, cc035330489a7f10005c728472aa5b…)
I've been in the goth scene for some while and during my first three years I wore makeup, coinciding with the age was allowed to wear makeup. I think I was convincing myself that since it was goth makeup it was counterculture and therefore not participating in 'normie makeup' trends and the makeup industry. Yes, I was trying to make myself look sick and dead, but I was still going to Ulta and fueling the pockets of men. I stopped wearing makeup and haven't worn it since. With the influx of zoomers getting into the scene, there's become a uniform look for makeup that is considered the 'real-deal' (it's a caricature of OG goth makeup), and if you don't wear it you're seen as not as committed to the bit. It's become the case that the costume of modern 'tradgoth' makeup is the only acceptable look to be seen as a true part of the subculture, and they love to argue that they're actually rebelling against beauty standards and are doing it to express their creativity. You can't have it that way when there are mainstream brands now profiting off of colors that they never sold before and goth makeup makes no statement now. I feel that this new 'tradgoth' makeup look is a milquetoast approximation of original goth makeup that Siouxsie and others wore, it's much heavier and has become it's own beauty standard. There is no creativity in it, it is a monochrome version of heavy normie makeup and I'm tired of goths pretending that when they buy a 'funky' color of lipstick from a brand that it somehow doesn't count in the pockets of the CEOs that profit off of insecurity. I would really like to see no-makeup become acceptable in goth circles. Everything has become a clone of picrel or a slight variation. I hate how the over-lined triangle cupid's bow has become a thing. Looks so uncomfortable and is no different to me than a woman over-lining her lips with a more traditional color. megakek that people that wear makeup like picrel accuse eachother of ripping off eachothers' styles I blame tiktok for popularizing that this is the be-all and end-all of real goth.
No. 414223
>>414218>There is no creativity in it, it is a monochrome version of heavy normie makeupThis is what I always think whenever I see 'goth' influencers or 'goth' makeup tutorials come up on one of my feeds lmao. Like it's basically just regular 2016-2020 makeup but more monochrome? And like you said the brands profiting are the same makeup brands, the techniques used are the same techniques.
I sometimes wear kind of goth-y outfits (I'm not part of 'goth' subculture though I just like some of the fashion elements) but with no makeup and my natural hair, and honestly I think it looks fine and more unique. I'm too old to care about participating in subcultures though, maybe that's the difference? Most style/music based 'subcultures' these days are really about conformity one way or the other, so trying to be 'accepted' in them is naturally going to mean flattening your uniqueness. I don't dress to fit in with any group and it's worked well for me, I've relaxed a lot more since realizing my 'image' doesn't have to say anything about or match my personality, 'gender,' what music I listen to or what other people I hang out with. If people are interested in being/looking unique then dressing and styling themselves however they personally like (and however they feel physically comfortable) should ultimately be their goal, not fitting in to a subculture or following a trend.
No. 414854
Currently hating myself because I've never worn any makeup, outside of literally one occasion, and now I have to. I've landed a really good job for someone my age in my country, really got a chance to get somewhere now. But to look "professional" I have to smear paint on my face and force myself into uncomfortable clothes while the men in my workplace come there having done a basic hygiene routine, wearing pretty comfortable clothes (ties aren't that bad and men are babies for complaining about them). I have of course come into work without makeup a couple of times, mostly because I fucked something up too bad, had to wash something off and didn't have time to do it all over again. People would ask me if I was sick, tired, sad or pissed off. I hate that I can't have my hands anywhere close to my face, I have to check on my eyes and the sweaty areas on my face all the time, I can't laugh or smile too hard or I will get creases. It's all so restrictive and I just feel weird and greasy.
No. 414987
>>414868Eastern Europe. Not exactly a misogynistic hellhole but people are kind of oldschool about workplace etiquette. We have a culture of hard work. This is a foreign corporation so I do get to enjoy some work rights and my boss actually has to pay me on time, so that's cool.
They can tell because I have awful dark undereyes no matter what I do, it's just genetic. I also have acne scars and I'm just not a looker in general. I don't do heavy makeup at all. I guess the details just make a huge difference.
No. 415391
>>415326maybe tell them that you have sensitive skin or allergies so you need to be careful with what you put on your skin? or you are too busy to care/put it on lol
or just tell them you are not into make up, who cares? if you still look and act proffesional then you are ok and they are just nosy
it is sad that you need '
valid' excuse to just show your real face in workplace
No. 415537
>>415495This is weird, whenever I'm in Eastern Europe there is no pressure at all to wear makeup and it's really common not to (more common than not for younger women especially), whereas in North America on the other hand I feel like there's intense pressure and a lot of people wear it, even school age children. None of my Eastern European friends when I was younger (like high school to college age) wore makeup regularly, and we didn't even really wear it to nightclubs except maybe mascara. Might just be different EE countries.
>>415513Why are you harassed by strangers for your makeup free face?
No. 415648
>>415537> whenever I'm in Eastern Europe there is no pressure at all to wear makeup and it's really common not to.> whenever I'm in Eastern Europe there is no pressure at all to wear makeup and it's really common not to.Nta, but the pressure starts at the age of 15/16+, until then, most parents don’t allow their girls to get makeup.
Where I live (still EE, but another country), the pressure isn’t as big as it was 10 years ago for example, but it’s still there. Botox and boob implants never got unpopular and so did the silent rule of getting dolled up at all times.
I was a tomboy in my teenage years and I got so much attitude from both people from the old generation and peers my age for not getting dolled up at all times, and not emphasizing on things like my legs with a midi to a short skirt and a bunch of stuff like that. Heck, I was even called unkempt for using only tinted chapstick kek.
I still do my makeup rarely (editorial looks for certain events) but I learned to be at peace with being considered a “failwoman” by my country’s standards and that way I filter vapid people easily.
No. 415672
>>415648AYRT and I was talking about after age 15. I'm not under 15 lmao. Maybe it just depends on the country like what you're saying, because in my EE country I don't currently live in but spent a lot of time there until COVID, I felt that looking 'tomboyish' was much more normalized in my teens/early 20s than it was in North America where I live. I do think wearing like skirts and heels for casual stuff was more normalized in my EE country than the NA country I live in for 'casual' wear, but the amount of hairstyling and makeup was a lot lower. I actually was always relieved to go to my home country because I felt like I could look a lot more casual and tomboyish and be accepted but it might heavily depend on location/city not general region. But when I would go clubbing or to discotheques in my EE country the girls I went with usually at most wore some mascara and lip gloss and frequently flat shoes whereas in my NA city girls all seem to go clubbing in full drag makeup, super done hair and like extremely uncomfortable party dresses and stripper heels. I literally wouldn't even be let in to a night club here in the clothes I went clubbing in when I was in EE.
The other nonna was talking about street harassment being really bad in her EE country and that's also the opposite of my experience but sounds quite unique in general, although if she's talking about groups of teen boys it sounds kind of plausible with what zoomer moids are like today.
No. 415675
>>415650I almost completely agree with your post but I actually think that oil stripping is a bigger problem than overmoisturizing for most women. The skincare/makeup industry heavily encourages daily washing with astringent/drying 'cleansers' and even dermatological products like salicylic acid, benzoyl peroxide etc. are basically stripping and drying, then all the moisturizers are to overcompensate. Moisturizing your face heavily for a while should theoretically work because it restores your skin's barrier so your skin isn't overcompensating for dryness with oil overproduction. I think a lot of women's acne/eczema problems are just caused by constantly disrupting the skin's natural oils/barrier, which paradoxically leads to both dryness and extreme oiliness to overcompensate for the dryness.
>how prevalent and expected it is for all women to be wearing it at all times to look at young and fuckableIt's funny you say this because makeup almost always makes everyone look older. It's not even about looking youthful, I'd say it's the opposite where very young girls are encouraged to look older to basically normalize pedophilia and also make girls really scared and freaked out about aging. It's no coincidence that young zoomer women now are the most freaked out about aging of any generation (at younger ages than ever before) while also being clowned on on social media for having the most insanely 'aging' looking makeup and styling possible. They're literally being memed into pre-emptively aging their looks and then told to freak out because they look old (fillers and botox also contribute to this).
No. 415678
>>415677Honestly even older women (like middle aged) I see I usually think they look younger makeup-free. My mom used to wear makeup in her early 40s and stopped around her mid 40s and literally looks younger in photos from her late 50s than photos from her early 40s. It might depend on the specific makeup and application but I think most people associate clean (without products on it) natural skin, brighter eye areas etc. with youthfulness. Young women and even very young girls are just being memed into making themselves look less youthful and also being acclimated like you said to male gazey sexualized beauty standards way too young.
If you go out a lot without makeup your flaws just aren't noticeable to people who see you frequently anymore, this is why no one freaks out about men having bad skin or looking tired, because people are used to moids looking like that.
No. 415840
File: 1721274982726.jpg (51.6 KB, 850x478, ef753646d56db11ea25b41d44b2a55…)
>>415650the way this is fucking true even in HAIR PRODUCTS. i can't tell you how many times i've met women who swore to me that they have to shampoo their hair every single day in order to prevent the greasiness to occur and then act offended when i tell them to maybe wean off of shampoo so that their scalps can produce less natural oil over time. its how i treated my super dry itchy scalp, too: i just stopped scrubbing harsh shampoos with hot water and just let it heal naturally on its own, maybe with a bit of essential oil to rub in during the night to take care of it.
No. 416240
>>415912my bad
nonny and i'm glad you're getting relief from the accutane. i guess i'm repeating what i've heard from other people who said that they somehow cured their oily scalp issue with just trying not to wash it until it reverses itself, but now i understand it's not that simple for everybody.
>>416216i feel like a dick now kek, especially since i have the opposite issue (dry scalp/hair type) and shouldn't assume these things if i've never even gone through it personally. in a way, its like how women think i'm dumb for not brushing my hair out like they can and its like, well yeah i have curly hair and it comes out looking like shit while yours looks amazing.
>>416229i've met greasy scalped curly haired women before and they told me the same thing that they have to wash almost daily. i think its also because the scalp care can be similar to skin care in that, if it's true that overwashing your face can make it produce more oil to compensate, then the scalp should react the same way. or so i've heard.
in any case, i've learned something new, so thank you nonnies.
No. 416322
>>409588There's something demonic about seeing make up tutorials where (mostly women I guess) have all that detail on their face before makeup and then they paint their face into one colour and then have to put blush on or else they look weird af.
I remember watching a makeup tutorial thinking that she looked better without the makeup but after covering her face with foundation and applying all the "touch up" bs just to look like how she already does?? Like surely that's a waste of time isn't it
No. 416955
File: 1721509789411.jpeg (111.03 KB, 634x1032, IMG_4188.jpeg)
>>416870It’s part of this 'femininity is akshually persecuted!’ Legally Blonde libfem bullshit. They think that if some males don’t like makeup or call it vain then they’re actually doing it to spite them, despite the fact that plenty of moids have no idea how a barefaced woman looks like and they’re salivating over women wearing full face in media. Even if an average male hated makeup, most makeup companies and drugstores are owned by men and advertised by men, so their logic is retarded either way.
No. 417010
File: 1721522971818.jpg (44.13 KB, 600x360, 360_F_189175031_rzsfQW4UCInXK0…)
>>416918this tbh. also i really hate that because a bunch of men enjoy saying untrue shit like "ohhhh we hate makeup, we actually love natural beauties haha, women who wear makeup are slutty whores to bang and discard, we only marry women who don't need that shit" that basically any woman who can honestly go outside happily without any makeup on is advertising to other women that she's trying to instigate a fight of some sort or to appear like a better option for the moids to get with. it's like if you don't wear makeup, you're secretly saying that you want to get picked by a man… despite the fact that men are always lusting after super made up hyperfeminine onlyfans types and leave their 'plane jane' partners for one if given the opportunity.
No. 417141
What I can't justify about makeup, is the time women use when getting ready on a day-to-day basis. My routine is concealer, eyeliner, mascara and lipgloss. I do my makeup on the train on my way to work kek and it only takes like 5 minutes. I have always had even and clear skin and people usually think I'm wearing foundation when I'm not (KEK sorry if this sounds like a huge brag, but it's the truth), except for the darkness around and under my eyes. When I've dropped the eyeliner and mascara, no one gaf, even though I have stereotypical thin Asian lashes that point downwards. But if I don't use my concealer, people genuinely get worried that I'm sick. So I kinda get why people with acne feel the need to cower it, because I assume that unfortunately other people might point it out, come with unsolicited advice or treat them differently because of it.
No. 420431
File: 1722425950525.webp (434.66 KB, 2000x1125, IMG_7717.webp)
I’m conflicted about make up because it isn’t inherently misogynistic. Historically it has been equally worn by both women and moids since its invention in ancient Egypt. But in this day and age scrotes are free to look as unkempt and ugly as they please while women are almost expected to wear make up. So that changes the dynamics significantly. Our society has turned it into something misogynistic over time I guess.
No. 423559
>>423526NTA but Eastern Europe is pretty bad about this too, at least my country is. If you're not dressed to the nines with a full beat you will simply be treated like crap.
>>423496I highly doubt you'd go around beating up groups of children, this is how I know you don't go outside and live in your own fantasy world in your head. And I wouldn't exactly call someone who doesn't do that a "loser retard", I'd call that normal.
No. 423576
File: 1723404098631.jpg (50.1 KB, 699x524, murders-in-the-zoo-1933-002-ra…)
>>420516They USED to be, that's the thing. Hell I was watching a talk show from the 70's and this one guy said to another, "Why don't you put on a tie? Look at all these people here!" And then they talked about how tacky guys look when they were a lot of gold chains and jewelry and shit.
No. 423591
>>423577I said NTA, learn how to read and stop chimping out. If you're not going to act civil I'll ignore your posts since your mental illness is easy to clock and you're not saying anything worthwhile.
>b-buh i'd just beat up them kids!!!Sure you would sweetie
No. 423595
>>423591I’m not the one getting bullied by children kek, I don’t actually
need to fight anyone. You lowlifes are so bitter. I guess experiencing middle school bullying as an adult does that to you.
No. 425322
>>425312yup, this about successfully convinced me to stop wearing eyeliner and mascara. thanks
nonnie.
No. 432056
>>409745>Peta, which kidnapped and euthanized a little girl's dog It's always that one story repeated over and over. You do realise the meat industry goes hard against Peta, spending millions on PR to discredit them?
Regarding the other common claims against them: they do dumb stunts because they're activists and its a cheap way to get press and attention. They have a high euthanasia rate because that's how they started - the founder worked in shelter and saw animals being mistreated that needed to be put down. Peta takes animals that are suffering that no kill shelters turn away and put them down humanly for free. They're the reason veganism is so popular these days and fur is not worn nearly as much any more.
Stop spreading meat industry PR.
No. 432695
>>426225Eyebrow plucking is another useless beauty double standard imo, very few men pluck their brows unless they have an actual unibrow or something and most eyebrows look perfectly fine as is, I don't think eyebrow grooming is really any different than makeup in terms of being a weird repressive expectation/sexist double standard.
>>425897Your point about the makeup shade names is one I hadn't considered before but you're right, so many of them do revolve around food or sexual double entendres. I guess it's an attempt to make the names memorable but it definitely adds to how degrading the whole ritual seems.
No. 433027
>>433026No, neither your face nor the rest of your skin needs to be 'sanitized' unless it's your hands and you're cooking or delivering a baby or something. The skin on your body naturally has microflora, oils, etc. to keep it healthy and to keep it from letting in
toxic external elements with a barrier. It is absolutely not necessary to use any type of soap on your face unless your face has actual dirt on it, makeup or your sweat is making you itchy or something. I healed 90% of the skin problems I had in my early 20s by just switching to cold water rinsing my face most days instead of using cleansers.
No. 433044
>>433030>>433033I think this is appropriate here because this is the makeup AND cosmetics critical thread but I always find it a bit weird to see women having this sort of radfem-ish critical sentiment toward makeup while simultaneously continuing to buy into the shilling of other cosmetics like skincare. The same company making your daily cleanser for your face and upcharging it compared to comparable soaps, oils, micellar waters that have more general uses is the same company making your depilation products, your foundations and lipsticks, etc. They are part of the same industry and they all operate on the same general priniciple of shame and insecurity and of convincing women that our natural state is never enough, is not proper, is not clean, is not 'neat,' is not professional, is not attractive, etc.
I think there is some genuine evidence for certain skin care products and rituals just like there is for certain basic hygiene rituals but falling for the 'your natural face is always dirty and needs sanitizing' psyop is not dissimilar to falling for the 'your natural face is unprofessional and you need to slap on mascara, foundation and lipstick' psyop. Your face can indeed get or 'feel' dirty and you may want to cleanse it but there is no good evidence that long term skin health is better using conventional cleansers and lotions than using water, or olive oil like the ancient greeks did, or nothing at all. Having good skin and discovering which products help you will be a trial and error process for most people but in order for that process to be effective you first have to start from the assumption that doing absolutely nothing may in fact be fine, and once you've tried doing absolutely nothing for long enough for your skin to adjust then you can slowly start to test products or routines (ideally on half your face at first) and see if there is any improvement. Starting from the assumption that all the products the cosmetic industry has brainwashed the public into considering necessary are in fact necessary will never lead you to a place where you can easily optimize your own skin health or hair health or whatever. I have had dozens of people ask me how my skin is so good (it used to be bad) and give them the advice to quit using ALL products for 3-4 weeks and then see if they need anything, almost all of these people ended up thanking me and telling me their skin improved just from using nothing. Unless you're eating a diet or drinking water or breathing air full of toxins or you have hormonal issues, your skin is supposed to basically keep itself clean and exfoliate itself as long as you get a little bit of sun and rinse your face with water every once in a while. Everything else should be targeted to the individual and their issues - you shouldn't just believe cosmetics companies that you 'need' to do various things to your body to make it functional. Skin is a functional organ, it largely regulates itself.
No. 433049
>>433048Some people are completely fine not washing their hair with products, but the oil buildup in your hair even if (like me) you think your hair is nicer using cleansing products is not a 'sanitation' issue and the reason you clean your hair is not to 'sanitize' it. I have long thick hair so I wash my scalp to get rid of dead skin cells/buildup not because it's unsanitary.
>Your skin everywhere produces oilsYes, which are healthy and protective
>you're supposed to wash it off once a daySays who? The cosmetics industry?
No. 433057
>>433056The dead cell buildup on my scalp is different because I have extremely thick and long hair so it won't just 'fall off' easily without me scrubbing it and rinsing it off once a week or so. The dead cell buildup on my face just falls off naturally due to lack of any physical barriers, like most people's. No I don't use stripping agents to wash my legs, arms, or torso except for regions that get sweat stuck in them (like under boobs or underarms) because there simply is no reason to. Your skin cells will slough off naturally and the oil is there to protect and hydrate your skin.
Think about it this way, if having oils on your skin was so bad then why does everyone say you need 'at least' 2 steps in skincare - a cleanser step that strips the oils and then a moisturizer step that re-adds the stripped oils? A lot of skincare brands' claim to fame for many of their products (like jojoba oil etc) is that the oils and emollients they re-add to your skin in moisturizers are 'formulated to be very similar to your skin's natural oils.' If that was a bad thing to have on your skin why would you pay top dollar to add it back?
A lot of rashes are caused specifically by products or by barrier stripping, it is not very common to get rashes from your own skin oils. The more you strip your skin barrier the more prone you are to various rashes from sensitizing products, as stripping the skin barrier harms your skin's immune response (immune response is the reason for rashes). One of the main reasons these stripping skin cleansers became common for women is because we were convinced to wear makeup products on our faces all day, which actually ARE pore clogging (natural skin oils are generally not), and contain sensitizers, so women were encouraged to wash off all the shit they put on their face at the end of the day and then re-add natural oils by using moisturizers. But if you're not putting a bunch of makeup and skincare on your face with sensitizing, pore clogging or barrier disrupting ingredients, there's no need to strip the natural oils. Some dermatologists even recommend not washing makeup off before you go to sleep because they think it's not worth it, although I'd still argue makeup is the main reason for these stripping cleanser routines for most women.
To take your example of haircare, most women who constantly use a ton of clarifying products on their hair do so because they use a bunch of styling products that cause buildup on the hair shaft and scalp in the first place - if you aren't using many of those you probably need to do much less hair and scalp cleansing overall. A lot of these products exist merely to overcompensate for other products we're convinced we need. When I hear stuff like 'you're supposed to wash the oil off your face' it sounds no different to me than 'you're supposed to shave your legs because leg hair is unfeminine' or 'you're supposed to wear foundation and undereye concealer and mascara otherwise you look unprofessional.' If you say you're 'supposed' to do something at least have a reason why.
No. 433061
File: 1727319718763.png (140.96 KB, 815x748, skinmicroflora.png)
>>433058I also struggled with eczema for a lot of my life and I stopped having hydrocortisone and other eczema things prescribed after I stopped using eye makeup, skin cleansers and moisturizers. I still occasionally get eczema breakouts (mostly from using sunscreen when swimming which is my number one
trigger or the odd time I feel like wearing an eye makeup look) but it usually goes away if I use sheep lanolin for a day or two on the affected area, I only got hydrocortisone prescribed once in the last few years because I fucked up and used a chemical sunscreen at my parents' place. I know this won't be the same for everybody and eczema can be caused by a lot of things since it's considered autoimmune so it could actually just be your skin attacking itself, but I know a lot of people who also got rid of eczema with dietary changes or even by showering using cold/cool instead of hot water.
Eczema and other autoimmune rashes are one of those conditions that often requires more of a 'deep dive' into trying to treat it however, whereas most people without autoimmune skin conditions don't need to work as hard to make their skin at least some baseline of decent. FWIW when I first saw a dermatologist about eczema she did tell me to cleanse and then use an oil free moisturizer, and it only got worse after that. Dermatologists can have really varied opinions about what works and I made my skin worse after taking my first derm's advice.
>I feel like you still get bacteria build up and whatnot on your skin in day to day life that you're supposed to clear offYes and no. Assuming your body and environmental conditions are basically healthy, most of the bacteria on your skin should be symbiotic and mutualistic microflora that actually keeps you healthier and safer (see: why women are no longer recommended to douche or use soap on our vaginas). Certain topical products, pollutants, diets or health conditions can cause 'bad' bacteria to build up (similar case to yeast infections and psoriasis) but usually there is some specific reason for this. See picrel (I'll add a few more sources) for discussion on how the natural bacteria on your skin actually protect you from invading bacteria and other pathogens.
Picrel source:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21697881/Source 2:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18489300/>On the basis of this pH drop, it is estimated that the 'natural' skin surface pH is on average 4.7, i.e. below 5. This is in line with existing literature, where a relatively large number of reports (c. 50%) actually describes pH values below 5.0; this is in contrast to the general assumption, that skin surface pH is on average between 5.0 and 6.0. Not only prior use of cosmetic products, especially soaps, have profound influence on skin surface pH, but the use of plain tap water, in Europe with a pH value generally around 8.0, will increase skin pH up to 6 h after application before returning to its 'natural' value of on average below 5.0. It is demonstrated that skin with pH values below 5.0 is in a better condition than skin with pH values above 5.0, as shown by measuring the biophysical parameters of barrier function, moisturization and scaling. Source 3:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30130782/> Several epidermal barrier functions, like skin barrier regeneration and antimicrobial response, are related to the acidic nature of the skin surface pH (ss-pH). However, the epidermal acidification is known to be fragile and it is commonly accepted that cosmetic products, especially soaps and skin cleansing products, can induce significant changes in ss-pH. As a consequence, epidermal barrier function and skin microflora are affected negatively. ss-pH even increases after a single washing procedure or after rinsing the skin with water alone. The skin pH recovery needs time up to several hours before it can reach the physiological level. For cosmetic-relevant skin conditions, skin disorders and specific consumer groups, maintaining of the acidic ss-pH is beneficial for epidermal physiology and cutaneous microflora. In this context, cleansing and skin care products with a pH level of 4.0-5.0 may be helpful.
>I remember hearing that it takes a month of not showering for oil to stop building up.I wouldn't know about that because I never found my arms, legs or torso skin to be unpleasantly 'oily' when I didn't scrub them with soap. My skin is just normal. Maybe this happens if you are the type of person who scrubs your legs with soap randomly but I never did that unless I got them dirty so this was never an issue for me, and of course it shouldn't be an issue, because we evolved to have a skin surface that naturally maintains itself. Other primates and mammals do 'groom' themselves and each other but this is usually by picking dead skin or insects or whatever out from their fur and licking their buttholes and stuff, not 'sanitizing' all their skin surfaces.
No. 433066
>>433061Samefag, was worried my post wouldn't go through if it got too long but regarding your own skin's oils being comedogenic or 'pore clogging' the closest natural product usually available to human skin surface oils is sheep lanolin, which has the advantage of being semi-occlusive. A lot of the 'natural' oils that are added to makeup and skincare products like coconut oil, vaseline (petrolatum) etc. are fully occlusive, meaning impermeable, which can be useful for 'slugging' if you have serious dryness or barrier damage issues but they fully clog pores. Natural skin oils, lanolin, and some other oils are not fully occlusive and therefore they do or should let your skin 'breathe' and not fully clog pores.
When people talk about pores being 'clogged' it's often just from buildup inside the pores of dust/dead skin/environmental pollutants that isn't getting flushed out for whatever reason but that's really not something you can easily fix with surfactants because your pores go deeper than the outer skin surface.
>>433064Do you have an evidence-based reason for thinking this? I don't think doctors should have licenses revoked for arriving at different scientific conclusions based on the same body of research and personal experience, I think it's good that doctors (like scientists) are technically allowed to disagree on what certain findings mean or how best to go about treating certain conditions. We never would have had any medical progress otherwise. But at any rate this is the cosmetics-critical thread so imo you can skip caring about this whole idea by just not wearing complexion products in the first place.
No. 437481
>>437467Some people find that it helps to wash their pillowcase frequently. This is a consoomer recc but for me
CosRX Blackhead Power Liquid pretty much ended my acne problems, it's not super expensive and lasts a while so it might be worth trying.
No. 437512
>>437476I get enough water, but I can try the acid. Is lotion that contains SA good enough?
>>437479>>437481Thank you! I'll try this and hopefully something works.