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No. 219421
Every time someone talks about the female gaze, i remember this quote:
"Male fantasies, male fantasies, is everything run by male fantasies? Up on a pedestal or down on your knees, it's all a male fantasy: that you're strong enough to take what they dish out, or else too weak to do anything about it. Even pretending you aren't catering to male fantasies is a male fantasy: pretending you're unseen, pretending you have a life of your own, that you can wash your feet and comb your hair unconscious of the ever-present watcher peering through the keyhole, peering through the keyhole in your own head, if nowhere else. You are a woman with a man inside watching a woman. You are your own voyeur"
So an hypothetical female gaze inevitably includes the male gaze. however, saying that female gaze is just like the male gaze with reversed roles is not enough.
I don't think it can exist in a big scale, we aren't getting a female gaze Michael Bay any time soon. But i think all female-oriented media need a bit of female gaze to work? From kpop boygroups to otomes to vlogging, i think is the female gaze that separates the successful from the non-succesful. If you want to cater media for woman, is not enough to think about us, you have to think with us. Even if that means to stop fapping from a while because "thinking with women about women" is also a fetish for scrotum bearings and this site is living proof of that kek.
I don't think that "media made for women" is enough to evoke the female gaze. Or, to say it better, to evoke the female gaze for woman. Oh yeah, there is such thing as "female gaze for men" as ridiculous as it sounds. I think american psycho is a good example for this because you can tell the gaze from the director(a woman) but is not necessarily directed at other woman, the presence is there but that is not enough. Again, male fantasies.
To end this rambling, for me the female gaze is a two-way experience. It need an space that allows women to see, and women who want to do it. Unlike the male gaze, who is omnipresent and it even denotes itself when the men doesn't "want" (it's a lie, they always want) to show it (hence why is so easy to spot male anons, unless you're on those /ot/ threads who play dumb on purpose) if you don't want to exercise your female gaze you never will, and of you have enough willpower you can apply it in places that technically don't ask for it (i think about Love Live, for example. At frist it was mostly consumed by males. Them the male-female ratio start to increase until it became almost 50-50, and then there it was more woman than men) female gaze is an inner experience and it's kinda hard to work with it, that is why mass media isn't working with it anymore. That is why we see so much NLOG pandering, being a NLOG males you an easier coomsomer on this day and age. The female gaze is not an universal experience, and what it appeals some woman wouldnt be the same for others. So i wouldnt be surprised if in this thread there are many different answers.
So i wouldnt say "what is your favorite female gaze media" instead i would say "what is your favorite media to apply your female gaze", in my case is a particular kpop bg but i don't want to be banned for kpopposting. Sorry, nonnies.
No. 219453
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Griffith. I don't care what you say. He is female gazey because he is handsome and a tragic figure that gets sexily tortured for a year and comes out a delicious little mummy worm. He even becomes a sexy monster. His weird complex with Guts is also hot.
No. 219632
>>219604Ugly? No. Rapist? Yes.
>created by a manSo was Howl
No. 219640
File: 1657122109335.jpg (166.05 KB, 744x1024, 1621959829516.jpg)
i think whump is inherently female gaze-y. ive never met a man who wasnt baffled by women enjoying whump and its a much more common turn on for women then we're allowed to believe
No. 219687
>>219636I am female and I am gazing at him.
>>219640Agree
No. 219745
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>>219453I understand why some anons will take issue with Berserk being mentioned, but I think Miura was pretty based for designing Serpico to be female gazey.
>Serpico is those female readers' "dream". My intuition was that he's the kind of man they would want to have around. To be frank, he's André from The Rose of Versailles. For a woman exhausted by society, he sees to her needs and considers her before all else. I thought this might be a woman's everlasting dream. No. 219748
>>219483Wait, I'm confused. Do you want a lesbian hentai focused on a male character?
>>219478To be fair, the positions that men do when having sex isn't really as versatile as the ones that women do. I wonder if it's really possible to draw a straight hentai entirely focused on the male. Regardless of the genre, porn always focuses on the bottom instead of the top. What do you guys think?
No. 219899
>>219171I resent that you chose a shot of a man for this thread but I'll get over it.
>>219374I think we get bogged down by the idea of cinematic technique inherently being male etc etc. Truth is, women also worked in those productions but were simply not credited for any of their suggestions on anything, had their labor stolen. I know that because it still happens and we credit singular auteurs when cinema is a collaborative medium.
The thing to focus a lot more on is prioritizing women-only crews, or at the very least creative teams. Sure, some technique may be originally utilized by a scrote but I've seen the stuff women come up with in environments where no man is there to edit them down, it's still unique. We need to focus on elevating the female creators who are making things
for us, fellow women. The form will mature and develop as long as we cultivate it.
Also seeing female gaze merely in a husbando/porn light isn't that helpful. The reason male gaze is so sexual is that men are simpleminded. Female gaze definitely can include sensuality but it's not limited to that. Kind of the main condition of the male gaze is that it can't divorce itself from the pathetic XY hangups of always identifying oneself from a sexual context. We lose when we only try to subvert because the originating ideas of men are suspect.
No. 219979
File: 1657228531702.png (Spoiler Image,388.67 KB, 671x577, Screenshot (104).png)
the female gaze does not exist in my opinion. i'd claim that women have internalized the male gaze so intensely, that they actually do not know how to look at a man in a sexual way. that's why every time a man gets sexualized, it seems gay. fujoshis put their own twist on it, but what they're doing is showing off their object of desire, the man, in the same way men look at women. picrel shows a fit man in a traditionally feminine pose. so, do women actually like femininity or did our patriarchal society just tell us that femininity is sexually desirable?
No. 220031
>>219979when i look at this i see an image that caters to gays, not women, because it is emphasizing feminine attributes. the man looks submissive, which is not typically what a straight woman is looking for in a straight man. i think pic rel
>>219640 is closer to what the female gaze is trying to get at, the mans body looks strong and he is objectified (hot bod, no face) but nothing about him seems feminine. have a lot of women internalized the male gaze? absolutely, but i think the female gaze still exists
No. 220033
>>219979>picrel shows a fit man in a traditionally feminine poseKek you are wild
nonnie. For you to believe simply spreading one's legs is a feminine pose says a whole lot more about your own internalized misogyny than it does about me being attracted to the male anatomy. This is the same thing homophobic men spout, they're terrified of the most mundane actions being seen as girly. I would argue that women being attracted to what you call "feminine" positions is more subversive and female gazey than only liking "masculine" poses because stereotypical masculinity is what 99% of women are groomed and trained into being aroused by from childhood.
I would like your image if it wasn't drawn in such an offputting style, but also consider that most women don't have use for ass access because we can't stick our vagina on ass. I like pegging and fingering guys but I certainly wouldn't think a woman was less into men for not wanting to do something that doesn't bring her direct physical pleasure. If he was drawn on his back just holding his dick and looking longingly at the viewer, that would be sexualized but less "gay" because it's a more common pose for a man to assume when he's about to get ridden. Most straight women would find that appealing.
No. 220071
>>219979It exist. Our own gaze exist as we look at the world. Many female artist go for a male perspective while creating art though - either because it's the default or because they feel uncomfortable self-inserting and gazing directly.
Your pic looks like gay male POV judging by the amount of sperm in it, which turns me off personally as I want to self-insert.
I would enjoy a submissive het POV pic like the one
>>220033 describes,
No. 220225
File: 1657310474105.jpg (66.98 KB, 540x644, EMwYKiMXYAAHduK.jpg)
Can you guys post examples of good female gaze?
I recall someone said this photoshoot of Hayden Christiensen felt female gazey in /g/, though I believe the photographer is a gay man
No. 220270
>>219979But why is the go-to ~feminine female-gazey pose~ in the image a fucking man on his back with his asshole spread covered with semen. Doesn't help he's lying on the floor of a public shower. Not to mention the tally marks on his ass. Where does the woman fit in with this image? I'm not the one who produced the semen am I? Not saying what you like makes you a scrote, but when I think female-gaze pose for a man I think I'd rather see art of a beautiful man on his knees looking ready to offer up his face for me to sit on. Or something.
Also this fucking "art" has this man nipple pierced ugh, what is going on with your head
nonny?
No. 220311
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>>220280if you hate faggots so much then stop lusting over most faggoty men ever. leave them to us pornsick faggoty anime boy lovers and go fuck a real man. you said it yourself: imagining yourself getting fucked by a cartoon twink day in and day out is for the mentally ill, such as trannies. try explaining that to someone IRL.
No. 220350
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I think a start to understanding the female gaze would be looking at media made for women by women eg. shojo/josei/yaoi manga or romance and erotica novels written by women which have existed for decades and have developed their own language and expression.
>>219774>are incest fantasies part of the female gaze?I would say that it absolutely is fantasy for some, it's pretty prevalent in shojo and romance novels. on a sidenote I think we shouldn’t completely discard "taboo" subjects from being a part of the female gaze like for example in the previous thread there was a discussion on
abusive love interests in otome games but anons immediately discarded it, in my opinion there is a prevalent fantasy of obsessive
abusive love in a lot of media made by woman and to deny it because it’s “
problematic” or doesn’t fit in a clean image of what the female gaze should be is wrong.
No. 220387
File: 1657388711262.jpg (219.66 KB, 1000x523, Uroš Predić.jpg)
I don't know how I can describe my specific type of "female gaze" but I just like seeing good looking men simply existing, I appreciate the male body and the aesthetic as it is, Ideally men wouldn't have autonomy and wouldn't even speak either, rather just sit motionless for my sake so I could stare at them, I could touch them and kiss them but I don't want them to move in the slightest
No. 220428
>>220397But here's the thing, I can see a beautiful man and appreciate looking at him in many situations, even sexual ones. That doesn't automatically mean that I imagine myself having sex with the beautiful man. I can stare at a character looking pretty and I can also see two of them in a relationship and enjoy the dynamic. I don't see how this thing is so hard to understand for some people, wanting to look at someone fucking among other things doesn't mean I want to be there with them. Self-inserting isn't bound to happen at all.
Yaoi was also created so that women could explore the concept of sexuality without having to see themselves sexualized and shamed in a relationship with a man. That's not really self-inserting, it's not like a yume that ships herself with the husbando. It was also a safe space for women to make and appreciate stories about pretty men when the medium was dominated by gross rapey hentais.
No. 220432
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Obligatory post
No. 220441
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>>220428Nayrt but I think anons issue was with calling women who self insert mentally ill, when there is nothing technically wrong with either observing or self inserting. I know it's annoying to hear people unfamiliar with yaoi assume that the only way to enjoy it is by self inserting but there is no need to make assumptions about the women who do. Mostly since there are several ways one can enjoy a piece of media.
No. 220443
>>220428When I say "self-inserting" I don't mean like a yume who literally draws/imagines herself with her husbando (herself, not someone else, or simply wondering what it'd be like to be there).
Why do you even want to look at yaoi anyway? Why is is interesting to you? Everything in fiction requires some degree of self-inserting, even if you're not aware of it which I've already said but you completely ignored; this is especially true because most if not all fiction is just escapism. Even normal stories need to be relatable to be good. And when you relate, you can more easily imagine what it'd be like to be in the characters' place. You think what you'd do in the situations the characters find themselves in. That's what I mean by "self-inserting" here. And that's what fujoshi do, whether they realize it or not, they want to be in the uke's place, or the seme's, or even just a spectator. They think about how good it must feel, they wish they could experience that, or wish they could do that to someone else. This is what "exploring your sexuality" is all about, isn't it? It's literally what you said and what I said before. Self-inserting from a safe distance, without having to think about your own femaleness. Even the lesbian fujoshi have to relate and long for what they're reading (just not necessarily with a man, of course) to some degree to be able to enjoy yaoi. Deep down you look at yaoi because you're attracted to the characters and/or the idea of their relationship/sex, because you relate or wish to relate, and it has nothing to do with mental illness, it's just something that humans naturally do. You're just not aware of it while you're reading or looking at it.
No. 220444
>>220441>I know it's annoying to hear people unfamiliar with yaoi assume that the only way to enjoy it is by self insertingDoubleposting to say that I'm not unfamiliar with yaoi. I'm very familiar with it and fujos as I used to be one myself, like many others here. And I'm talking about what I know and have observed from other fujos. I don't know why the fujos on lolcow are so in denial about certain things that most fujos outside have no problem admitting.
>>220443I also want to clarify that here I'm mostly talking about NSFW.
And maybe one could call this kind of self-inserting "indirect self-inserting"? I think that gets my point across better.
No. 220445
>>220362Wait, reading this again while browsing the thread, the man's hands is really significant. I feel like being into a man's hands, or say calves, is very female-gazey. I don't see the whole calf thing but it's been a pattern since the 18th century as far as I know. Those are definitely body parts that are mostly female-gazey.
A man wouldn't really have a reason to become fixated on hands, but women liking hands makes sense because of the sexual component and the sense of being with someone stronger or protective/a guardian. Also hands doing labor is sexy. Strong hands, lean hands, pale hands, calloused hands, women even have different tastes in what man hands are found attractive. It isn't even autistically fetishy like what male sexuality has with their fetishes, ex. foot fetish.
>>220434Agree
Idk I feel like a lot of people itt are confused on what counts but I'm seeing some really good, strong examples here
No. 220447
>>220443>Everything in fiction requires some degree of self-insertingIf this is true why even bother pointing it out for fujos? There's always this implication that fujos are too self hating and insecure and misogynistic to do what they really desire deep down, and that they only like gay ships because they can't emotionally cope with superior het ships.
If there's any element of self insertion for me, it's so minor it's not worth acknowledging. I like the two male characters I ship. I want to read about both of their personalities and their relationship dynamics, I want to look at their designs. I don't involve myself, and it's not because I find myself unworthy of having sex or romance. I'm not interested in or attracted to myself the way I am to the characters, and I can have that stuff irl.
No. 220484
>>220447First of all, stop assuming everyone who doesn't agree with you or isn't a fujo is one of the anti-fujo autists. I'm not implying any of that shit you're saying, and I don't think there's anything wrong with you self-inserting a little bit in a subconscious way, I think it's normal. I believe male or female gaze inherently involves an element of self-inserting, as in, the thing that you're looking at is made for you, with you in mind, the characters are "performing" as if you were present there, and that's how male/female gaze works, in my opinion.
Second, I only brought it up because someone said self-inserting in yaoi is something that only mentally ill FtMs do, which is obviously bullshit but somehow two people ITT think so. Things aren't so black-and-white.
No. 220495
File: 1657436502976.gif (2.86 MB, 330x314, modern-family-spray.gif)
>>220467Take your meds, Paki-chan.
No. 220513
File: 1657438548693.gif (3.23 MB, 410x498, 1652286109911.gif)
>>220467>pseudo-female underaged boysHuh?
No. 220544
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>>220467You should probably look into the history of BL if you are confused about it. The women that created it did so for a reason, maybe you just can't relate to it because your life was different.
I personally like it because I don't have to be involved. There are no women in the sexual act, so I don't involuntarily identify with it, I don't have to imagine myself in the sexual situation. It's also 2D so I don't even think of them as real people. This is important to me because of the negative experiences I had with sex and men in the past. It lets me enjoy sex from a safe place.
This is why I think female gaze should just be anything that a majority of women like. We're all different, so what counts and what doesn't will changed a bit based on cultures and experiences. As long as it's made by women for women I think it's ok.
No. 220549
>>220443I relate to one or both of the characters, sure. That's not really was self-inserting means though. Self-inserting from a "safe distance" doesn't really exist imo, you either self-insert in the yume (or aiden, if you're unhinged) way or you just relate to the characters because of looks, experiences, personality and other stuff. That's what people generally do with media they enjoy, they relate to it because of various factors (interesting story and themes, or maybe they find the characters hot). Again, relating and self-inserting are very different things. Both are fine but I honestly think self-inserting can be a slippery slope, there are literally people kinning or getting mad at seeing "their" husbando in situations they don't like seeing. Self-inserting is kinda what moids do when they obsess over waifus they think are really theirs.
>>220467Nobody cares about what you think Paki-chan. I also think that wanting to fuck a deranged man is a form of severe mental illness, but here you are simping for Varg.
No. 220550
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I always found the way men were styled in old school vkei to be female gazey even though the men in questions are huge misogynists lol
No. 220559
>>220555You clearly don't know what sexualized and romanticized mean. If you refer to the fact that the drawings are beautiful and the sex scenes (which are not explicit btw) are drawn symbolically or with pretty elements around them, that's a thing that people often do to take something that's traumatic or gross and make it into something beautiful in order to analyze and explore it in a better, gentler way. Not to mention that it was the style that was very popular at the time.
You can see what I mean in the authors' interviews and the opinions of the girls (young ones too, after all the genre was shoujo) reading the works and using them to explore the concept of sex and abuse by relating to characters that thought like them and were in their positions. Those stories were no different from the thousands of romance works, except that maybe they actually talked about sex instead of just alluding to it (because girls have to be pure!!!) and using boys (gasp) to do it. You won't find people going "This child character is so hot, I want to fuck him and actually rape isn't bad, children can consent!!" shit that you see all the time in works (male-made) where rape and children are actually sexualized.
No. 220561
>>220559I really cannot believe you are fucking doing this, I'm sorry but you are a fucked up person if you think that using children(regardless of sex) for some dumb yaoi brain rot fetish, I hate when fujos do this
>If you refer to the fact that the drawings are beautiful and the sex scenes (which are not explicit btw) are drawn symbolically or with pretty elements around them, that's a thing that people often do to take something that's traumatic or gross and make it into something beautiful in order to analyze and explore it in a better, gentler wayI really can't even fucking answer that, you admit they were stylized sex scenes of a child character being raped, I am sorry but you are suffering from some terminal yaoi brain rot to even defend this
I am not paki-chan or a fujo hater either, but you don't have to defend every fucked BL content
No. 220577
>>220555And? The intent here is not to sexualize kids to get the viewer off. You can read the Kaze Ki page on wikipedia if you want a more detailed explanation. This was not about a having a m/m fetish, there is a reason why they were male and why this was portrayed, specially at the time it was published. You are oversimplifying the message because it makes you uncomfortable.
From an interview the KazeKi author did:
>Keiko Takemiya is not apologetic about including troubling portrayals of sexual violence involving children.>"Such things do happen in real life. Hiding it will not make it go away. And I tried to portray the resilience of these boys, how they managed to survive and regain their lives after experiencing violence." This was the late 1970s when such things were not talked about in mainstream media, let alone girls' manga. Ms Takemiya recalls receiving a letter from one of her readers who said she had been raped by her father. "She never thought something like that happened to other people, but reading my manga told her that she wasn't alone and that saved her," she recalls. No. 220595
>>220590>You sound that like one radblr radfem…Nta but why willingly show your ass like this kek letting the whole thread know that you're also a tumblroid getting in fights over your retarded takes on the daily.
>>220586Clavicles/collarbones too
No. 220600
File: 1657469450993.png (177.01 KB, 455x522, based.png)
>>220595>>220586>>220362Actually, I think Kaneoya described it perfectly.
No. 220606
>>220592Yes, definitely
>>220595Yes
>>220600Sure, I can see it.
No. 220608
>>220445I've noticed that a lot of women fangirl about male celebrities hands, it's never man that do it.
I even remember when I watched The Power of The Dog and discovering it was directed by a woman, suddendly all the hand shoots make sense kek
I think it's a matter of sensuality, women like to fantasize, moids like to have everything displayed in the most degenerate way possible to the point it stops being sexy.
No. 220614
>>220600Damn I agree, never noticed that I actually liked this.
Is nail polish also female gaze or is this too troony? Imo not all men can pull it off, but when they can it looks really good. Only black or dark colors tho.
No. 220624
File: 1657476333648.png (18.95 KB, 522x251, FUjJG3caIAIJHX4.png)
I'm not even going to state my opinion on anything here, I just want to say that arguing over whether fujoshi are morally good or not is getting very repetitive because it's always the exact same arguments and examples that come up in several threads in both /ot/ and /m/ for years. It's not interesting anymore, please move on or bring up new information or opinions. There's a reason why anons are joking that one of you is paki-chan, it's because you all say the same things the same ways. Pic slightly related I guess.
No. 220625
File: 1657477526560.jpg (55.33 KB, 640x640, 1657382662073.jpg)
rape can be genuinely hot when it's happening to a man. don't care if it's "scrotey" to admit. I primarily only find depictions of female rape questionable. men in pain and male desperation, suffering, death, sickness, and illness in general are all femgaze friendly themes. many women love to see it deep down, be it subconsciously or not. m-muh morality won't change that. fiction is fiction, and women are under no obligation to limit themselves to enjoying only the most morally pure radfem approved subject matter so that we can all circlejerk over how much better we are than men. we aren't the ones actually raping, murdering, torturing, or otherwise abusing men, nor are we funding their abuse. not even in the fiction. the same cannot be said in reverse. that's all that matters.
No. 220627
File: 1657477685201.gif (1.89 MB, 500x281, I4IH.gif)
All of Jamie and Claire's wedding night scenes from Season 1, Episode 7 of Outlander. We actually discussed this when it aired in one of my women's lit courses in university as being a good example of the female gaze. It's an older, previously married woman with a younger (virgin) man getting it on without any weird porny tropes. The camera focuses on Jamie's body just as much as Claire's and there are lots of shots of his face while they're having sex. The entire episode is very sweet imo.
No. 220635
>>220625This is actually true, especially the suffering/sickness/pain part. I agree with the rape too, personally.
>>220633Nobody fucking mentioned ABO, schizo
No. 220638
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>>220633Dumb comment. If the man is being assaulted by a female character, is he still a "psuedo-female"?
>>220625This makes me think of whump, like
>>219640 brought up. Being injured etc makes a man vulnerable and I think male vulnerability is a big female gaze thing.
No. 220641
>>220624No, they don't joke about Paki-chan because they sound similar but because one of the anti-fujo spergs was revealed to be her.
>>220627>there are lots of shots of his face while they're having sexTbh this is so uncommon and I'm so not used to seeing it, that it becomes too much for me (in a good way; I blush and have to cover my eyes because I get embarrassed at how sexy it is)
>>220633I wish we could discuss these things seriously and from a neutral perspective without accusing fujos of being morally evil, pornsick coomer pedophiles, because some of these things are true (for example the fact that yaoi boys very clearly act more feminine than real men and in some cases are basically female in terms of behavior and external looks, not to mention the uke-seme dynamic often reflecting traditional female-male relationships), but the more your retarded ass attacks fujos using these analyses the less we'll be able to discuss them in a nuanced way because fujos will get defensive and deny all of these things as well and the whole discussion becomes a fucking incomprehensible mess.
No. 220643
>>220641>basically female in terms of behavior and external looksBut where? Why is their behavior basically female? Is it not female-gaze to be into men that aren't hyper-masculine? Do a lot of women really want a man who is like "GET OUT OF THE WAY, THE GAME IS ON. GET ME A BEER." or like "IM GOING OUT WITH MY BUDDIES AT THE BAR TO DRINK." or like "LEAVE ME ALONE IM GAMING IN MY MAN CAVE
BRAP"
I dunno I feel like most yaoi shit the men aren't 'basically females' but are just emotionally intelligent and handsome.
No. 220650
>>220641I think that's just you equating acting like a real human bean with acting feminine. in fiction a man can act like a human with complex thoughts and emotions and still be a man. emotional retardation isn't an essential part of being a male though it is a common one IRL. it's unattractive so of course it doesn't make it into fantasies. it applies to het romance written by women as well. their love interests don't act any more like real men than the BL ones do.
>>220643this
No. 220661
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>>219979That pic is the complete oposite of the female gaze, it's actualy the male gaze applied to another male. The female gaze should be sensual and soulful. Female gaze erotization cannot exist without humanizing the subject being watched.
No. 220664
>>220649Holy fucking shit, it's impossible to have a serious conversation about this with someone who lacks so much reading comprehension. When did I say any of that? Stop putting words in my mouth. Also there it is again, you keep getting defensive, this time I didn't even say that fujos self-insert (as if that were a bad thing at all).
>What about women who feel attracted to the uke?It's not impossible to find the character you relate to attractive, and it's not impossible for women to relate more strongly to or self-insert as the seme either (probably an indication of being GNC, if anything). None of this contradicts what I said.
>>220650Nowhere in my post did I mention emotional intelligence. That's a good thing that obviously women are going to want in their partners and it (shouldn't) have anything to do with one's sex (meaning that it shouldn't be seen as an exclusively female thing, but alas, most moids irl are deficient in it).
What I'm talking about is the uke's looks (small, pale, younger, big eyes, soft and youthful features, long eyelashes, sometimes indistinguishable from the way the artist draws young women), and his role (being the submissive one in bed is part of it but not everything; he's the one being pursued or even raped by the more masculine one, sometimes he even acts as a housewife who cooks and cleans for the other or has some other stereotypically female role, like a prostitute)
Meanwhile the seme both looks noticeably more masculine (the opposite of the uke) and often has some traditionally masculine role/profession, such as being a CEO or having some other position of power.
But none of this means that the classic uke is literally female, you can still see him as male (in f you can
choose to focus completely on his masculinity and ignore the rest) but in essence he fits a traditional female role as seen by society. Is that so hard to accept?
And again, I'm mostly talking about pre-2010 media. Subversions of this dynamic (where the bigger and more masculine guy is the sexually submissive one, or they're both roughly the same in terms of masculinity/femininity) are more common now.
You have to be literally blind (or just strongly in denial) if you don't see it or find it impossible to believe that BL uke and seme reflected gender roles for women and men respectively for a long time before it started to be widely seen as cliche. It was also very common in yaoi ships to "twinkify" (make even more delicate/feminine) the character that the fandom decided was the submissive one, while the "masculine" qualities of the seme were amplified. Countless jokes about the uke being basically a girl and the seme being ridiculously "masculine" (yaoi hands, rape, etc.) were made by fujos back in the day.
Also I never even implied that yaoi is not female gaze or that I don't like it. If you'd actually read my posts you'd realize that. Not every analysis of this kind is meant to condemn or attack.
No. 220666
File: 1657483020361.jpg (229.67 KB, 736x817, Jljhfe_899.jpg)
>>220661Just to give a few examples. The male gaze cut the subject into pieces that can be eroticized even as dismembered parts, you see it especilly in movies when the camera pans over a woman's body, sometimes decapitating her. It's not about her as a person, her humanity is secondary. The female gaze is not just switching things around by watching a man as a sexually attractive object just like men do to us.
No. 220667
>>220662>The female gaze should be sensual and soulful. It shouldn't be anything. It's about how women percieve the world and how we portray it in media. Our gaze doesn't have to follow a certain rule.
I agree that women tend to look at people as actual people though, not things, unlike scrotes.
No. 220678
File: 1657485469488.jpg (38.65 KB, 638x444, download (13).jpg)
In general, I find that male musicians tend to appeal to the female gaze quite often. Like the visual kei example that anon pointed out earlier. Or in the 80s, lots of musicians like pic related styled themselves in a way that I think is much more appealing to women than to men. I've seen it present from the 90s (Trent Reznor and Kurt Cobain maybe?) to the 2000s when My Chemical Romance had a majority female fanbase. Historically, male musicians (not just boy bands that are manufactured for women) have always been very popular with women and inspire a type of fanaticism that actors or athletes don't and I always wonder why that is. I think there is something in the way male musicians (not all, but at least quite a few) are presented that can really attract the female gaze and I wish more men would take the hint and stop trying to look like stereotypical, boring chads.
No. 220754
>>220728>something about the whole plot of the movie being about men who view themselves as firmly above nature being humbled by it and suffering until their arrogance is gone appeals to mebased
>>220736This thread is all about the female gaze though? Whether you like it or not, a lot of women like seeing men suffer in fiction, no matter if they're fujos or femdomfags, while it makes males uncomfortable. Like another anon said earlier in the thread, we shouldn't avoid talking about controversial, taboo or morally questionable examples of the female gaze.
No. 220764
>>220758If I ask you, you'd answer that you'd like to be pleasured by Varg instead, and that's way worse than whatever fujos are into.
>>220763Every woman who isn't a perfect virgin tradwife simping for the big violent man is a "porn addict", I guess
No. 220780
>>220774Yeah me too, he needs nipples. Where are the nipples that should be poking through his outfit all sexily?
>>220758>If you ask average person if they'd like two handsome males to pleasure them, they'd almost always say yesThat sounds like pornaddiction too, normal sex should just be between a Varg and his 12-year old girlfriend right
No. 220782
File: 1657536797664.jpeg (167.45 KB, 684x1000, A54BD20F-9D6A-47CB-8013-33ECDD…)
>>220772
I hope they dont mean the actor…?
No. 220791
File: 1657539783862.jpg (163.5 KB, 1200x627, bridgerton-netflix-serie.jpg)
Does Bridgetorn fit the female gaze?
No. 220816
>>220814I'm not whatever boogeyman you made up, I came here from CC because it's more active and I knew it was cancerous but it turns out even if you can escape coomer moids you stil have to put up with
toxic BPD white beckys pushing their white feminist views onto everyone as if it applies to all women who weren't born into privilege or have the same experience as white women.
No. 220823
>>220822It's a common belief that white women age like milk. It means they age very badly and quickly. Like how people say Asian women age really well or something.
Racist Beckys ITT larping as feminists (as lots of white women are known to do) referring to someone as "paki-chan" just because they're mad that she is "attacking" the moid obsession or something. Typical white feminist bs.
No. 220827
File: 1657547373259.jpg (52.76 KB, 650x638, 1656233547520.jpg)
>>220809>>220815This is not me,(you know the country name in south asia, I am not saying it cause I shall be accused of being a namefag) also please stop trolling, I do not condemn ever all white women
>>220819honestly fine with the term, though I'd rather be known as pothwar-chan, I hate pakistna and would rather be reffered to as my tribal group
>>220820lesbian romanticism is also feithsization moron, also she's in the UK(filled with pakistani's who wish to murder me) and I plan to go to America, how would that hook up make sense
(USER HAS BEEN PUT OUT TO PASTURE) No. 220831
>>220829it's not one of the namefags idiota it's some moid from CC
now stop replying to him until th mods wake up
No. 220834
File: 1657547973787.jpg (192.47 KB, 600x960, 20220613_185132.jpg)
lesson of the day is disregard everything an antifujo anon has to say because they're either schizophrenics coping with their own mentall illness by projecting more mentall illnesses onto normal people or straight up scrotes
No. 220836
File: 1657548004320.jpg (58.02 KB, 523x680, 20220613_185121.jpg)
No. 220838
File: 1657548125031.jpg (179.24 KB, 1024x725, 20220613_185123.jpg)
mooooooooooooooods
No. 220839
>>220829>here, we act like incel, racist moids all the time>it's okay because no one says anythingSis, your dignity? Assuming you ever had any…
>>220831>t. seething troon or moid>>220834>>220836>>220838>aging like milk at the speed of light>also a pedophileYou really might as well be a moid at this point.
No. 220840
>>220823paki-chan here and I hope your shut the hell up, I strongly condone racism against every race(except arab men, hate anything to do with the culture created by Satan himself)
>>220834>>220836stop your porn addiction and leave this thread, for the love of God
this was supposed to fun and interesting thread, but you)1) male trollers (2)porn addicted fujos (3)generals trolls ruined it, why can't you post actual attractive men pleasuring women, what is wrong or complex with that
(USER HAS BEEN PUT OUT TO PASTURE) No. 220844
File: 1657548445136.jpg (87.27 KB, 600x800, 20220613_185137.jpg)
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODS
No. 220847
File: 1657548620547.jpg (913.96 KB, 2506x2287, 20211227_111116.jpg)
mooooods, gibe nonnie miwkies
No. 220849
>>220845yaoi is not female gaze, and fujoshi are probably one of the most cancerous and misogynist part of any fanbase. White women and troons seem to try and monopolize or take over any fanbase they enter and most yaoi fans tend to be white women in the West. It's more about the behavior and the fans than the thing itself. I think yaoi can be female gazey but it very rarely ever is. And the talking points I've seen spewed in this thread do reek of white feminism and are a disaster.
I'm glad to see it's been shit on numerous times in this thread seeing as the fujoshits already have several boogeymans. Fujoshi will continue to be ostracized and critized, as they should be. Beckys can keep seething, they can't do anything about it.
No. 220851
File: 1657548988196.jpg (100.93 KB, 1024x768, 20220613_185138.jpg)
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODS
No. 220853
>>220845>>220848its not a white woman phenomenon, its more of a pick me cuck queen attitude, it started and is most popular with Japanese women, who are turbo pick me's
>>220847being a porn addict is not funny, why not post actual attractive men instead of sexulized boys kissing each other(I know you cannot comprehend female pleasure)
No. 220854
>>220847>mooooods, gibe nonnie miwkiesI honestly think this is a troon. I've never met an actual female that types like this.
Wouldn't surprise me in the least if most of the so-called "fujos" in these threads were actually just racist pedo troon/moids. Imagine allying yourself with that. Can't be me.
No. 220862
File: 1657549798371.gif (Spoiler Image,192.83 KB, 300x250, 91244568-24.gif)
ONLY MTFS AND PICKMES DON'T LIKE YAOI
FUCK YOU AND YOUR STINKY DISCORD GROOMER BFS
YOU WILL NEVER BE TRAD AND YOUR BABY WILL HAVE AUTSIM JUST LIKE YOU
No. 220863
>>220859Who is you? You're replying to me but I'm not the sperg posting pics, and I'm not the sperg spamming the word fujopedo either.
>>220858Anime cons are full of the people you see posting online so it counts. The only real difference is that irl you can physically see that many of the fujoshi buying BL manga aren't white. That's why I brought that up. You really think online fans of anything are complete shut ins?
No. 220865
Please mods end this madness, you have one stupid LARPing moid and porn addict fujo who will come out as a transman by years end, END THIS PLEASE
>>220863yes many are asian, still porn addiced women who require help
No. 220868
File: 1657550234930.jpg (62.4 KB, 564x564, get in bitches.jpg)
We really can't have nice threads without the ever-old and ever-boring infighting about gay sexual relations in fucking comics and/or in animation. Well, it was a fun thread while it lasted
…oh and also men's eyes are wonderful and I wish they would be portrayed in a nicer way. The 'hunter eyes' are boring.
No. 220869
>>220865is yuri then female gazey or do you just think all women who like objectifying moids, are on the same lvl as weirdo transbians and dude bros who consooome lesbian porn?
also
nonny, do u think every fujo are shota obsessed freakoids? your sample size is neglectful.
No. 220871
>>220870mean to reply to
>>220868Beckys keep seething.
No. 220872
>>220868Mods need to stop fucking and hellban that retard. I refuse to believe they're even smart enough to evade one since they aren't smart enough to sage
or not use the thread like a fucking chatroom. Range ban if you have to, the reeing about fujos is shitting up all of /m/ and /ot/, and all it takes to end it is banning the 2 spergs behind it.
No. 220873
>>220849>yaoi is not female gazeIt is made by and consumed by women, thus it is the female-gaze at least for some (a lot) of women.
>white women and troons take over fanbases>white women in the west like yaoi the most>muh white feminismgr8 b8 m8
Also, post your fucking examples of female-gaze you retard, you still haven't, have you?
No. 220877
>>220872>t. seeething fujoshit mad her shitty fetish will never be accepted anywherelol even in Japan they ostracize them, as they should.
>>220873>t. seething racist moidYou will never pass.
No. 220885
>>220884learn to sage your shit spergchan
hating women wont make moids want to make you their wifey
No. 220894
File: 1657554143131.png (1.38 MB, 1244x1331, bpdmanlet.png)
Personally, I think one of the core elements of the (hetero/bi) female gaze such as Howl's Moving Castle and such is how the moids are not portrayed disgusting rape apes even if rape/violence does occur. You can always see a difference between how women and men portray sexual violence (unless the woman is a turbo pick me I guess), women will focus mostly on the mental side of it and its consequences almost as if trying to disconnect from it as a cope. Furthermore, the male perpetrator is often portrayed as a tragic figure and there can be just as much focus on his emotions and 'pain' regarding what happened which once again seems like some sort of way to cope by romanticizing the abuser and making them seem less monstrous. A beauty and the beast kind of deal (which in itself is a very female gazey piece of literature too, especially compared to fairytales written by men)
No. 220897
File: 1657554566832.jpeg (1.83 MB, 2400x3300, 63E80B3E-9E8C-4D92-AFB2-C8512C…)
>>220895What’s the opinion on the obsessions with romanticizing fictional serial killer monsters?
No. 220904
File: 1657555849415.jpg (145.83 KB, 1834x471, The shape.jpg)
>>220895depends on the monster though, Michael Myers is a canonically supposed to have an angelic and beautiful face behind his mask while Jason is supposed to have a deformed monster face, but I have my own theory of why slasher villains seem to have garnered female audience in the past few years, the thing about slashers (with exceptions like Chucky and Freddy) is that they are often the peak of masculinity but also never explicitly sexual, they are impossibly buff and tall killing machines with no emotion or personality, but they are never rapists(often times they kill rapists) they can't be sexist or racist, they are essentially blank slates and you can apply whatever personality you want for them to suit
No. 220906
File: 1657555986325.png (672.62 KB, 600x892, kca84qrp2hz61.png)
>>220755Just because I was aware of this version as a counter point.
No. 220909
File: 1657556362330.jpeg (259.33 KB, 1242x1047, E16A623D-3DBF-4B65-AC1B-B67B8D…)
>>220897I think it happens because of the suspension bridge effect, then the brain starts creating stories about the bad guys forgiving us, wanting us, falling in love with us, and the cute fanarts just start happening.
The fact that they're fictional also means that we can control them, if we want to, a murderer in a fantasy maybe wasn't a murderer at all, maybe he was just a weird guy wearing a mask and scaring people around like in a Scooby-doo episode and they all got lost but came back later on.
Maybe he's just a guy who always wears a mask, works at a flower shop and helps at a campsite on summer because he likes to make sure everyone is doing okay.
There's so many possibilities, unlike with disgusting 3DPDG moids, which is something that would've been brought up at some point, that murder people just because, they are 100% human, not monsters, they wouldn't have been alienated by society if they would've just gotten a fucking grip and stopped hating innocent people for the shit they did to themselves, which makes the irl serial killer lovers just mentally ill women that seriously need psychiatric help because at that point psychological help isn't enough.
No. 220910
File: 1657556621853.png (41.65 KB, 580x770, square-enix-tones-down-its-too…)
>>220906kek the delusion. Picrel is a male character with revealing clothes and obvious female gaze design elements over which scrotes threw actual screaming crying fits over because they were psychologically disturbed at seeing a single male character that was just as sexualized as the average female character. The mantrum was so intense that square enix changed his outfit to look less revealing
No. 220912
File: 1657556909030.png (1.62 MB, 731x940, antonio lopez.png)
>>220908>>220906The appeal to both men and women in jojo can be explained by the fact that many jojo designs were inspired by the art of Antonio Lopez, a gay fashion illustrator
No. 220915
>>220906Jojo style is influenced by Hokuto no Ken and later mostly by fashion magazines and some fashion artists. It's shonen created by a man (who likes drawing titty btw, it's obvious in Jojolion). It's not the same as women drawing bishiefied fanart of "manly characters" that moids worship. kek whoever made this edit is a retard. As if male nerds didn't blame women
("fujos") of ruining their anime when they have pretty male protagonists. Remember the huge tantrum that /a/ threw when Free! was announced?
No. 220919
File: 1657558355994.gif (976.26 KB, 450x253, haru.gif)
>>220915Free! is such a great example of the female gaze
No. 220929
>>220913>>220917Because it is. The doc and comphet largely just describe bi-cycling. There are women who do experience a sort of comphet if they're from a severely homophobic country and have literally no gay role models in life but almost nobody has anything like comphet in the west, besides severely controlling households. Even then it's not that they had normal, loving experiences with men, it's that they did what their society told them they have to do and felt suicidal/miserable during it.
At any rate it's not comphet if you've willingly been with or wanted a man, ever. It's only bisexuals (who may prefer women still) that can experience positive sexual encounters with the opposite sex. I'm so tired of having to clear this up to confused heteros and bis lol
No. 220957
File: 1657566858846.gif (633.69 KB, 498x175, LqWCZBi.gif)
>>220791bridgerton is very female gazey, though it's based on a different series i think anything jane austen adjacent is female gazey.
not just awooga sexy man but also embracing emotion and femininity instead of treating it as inferior
No. 220973
>>220791it's based off of a romance novel series, so i should hope so. i read the series and it's standard fare for the genre with a healthy sprinkling of fun tropes.
>>220957>jane austen adjacent is female gazeyi find this description funny but it is true austen's work inspired much in the historical romance genre. sometimes these books, like newer romance novels can fall into glorifying BDSM and rough sex inspired by Fifty Shades of Grey (and porn) but much of it is written and read by older women not into that crap.
No. 221024
File: 1657597226653.jpg (521.53 KB, 1920x2198, NMKCM2w.jpg)
>>220915>Remember the huge tantrum that /a/ threw when Free! was announced?Ah what a time to celebrate. Moe girls studio making hot swimming guys an actual anime.
>>220936I didn't really think too much of the chins but I think it would be more female gazey if they have nipples.
No. 221206
File: 1657650477274.jpg (44.33 KB, 400x363, WGS2tbZ.jpg)
I know most of the discourse in this thread is about sexualization but is there such a thing as a platonic female gaze. I don't think Moomin or Studio Ghibli is sexualized but they feel like the female gaze
>>220985i think that anon was just saying their own experiance
No. 221221
File: 1657656011815.jpg (124.17 KB, 853x1200, Cleo_from_5_to_7-937846899-lar…)
In my opinion this is the movie that represents best the female gaze, as it was directed and written by a woman, and features a woman's inner thoughts as well as a woman's POV
No. 221336
File: 1657678798765.jpg (654.48 KB, 1300x758, 82783034_p0.jpg)
>>221228as a men's dress shoe fetishist I can confirm it is
No. 221691
File: 1657792820042.jpg (94.26 KB, 1024x770, 38015_1.8.jpg)
I KNOW I will get shat on for this since it's Machine Gun Kelly after all… But this photo from a movie starring him (Taurus) feels really female-gazey to me. The tragic J-RPG protagonist look, the vulnerability, the hands, the somber mood… I know everything here triggers my gaze.
I kind of want to watch the film now, tbh.
No. 221709
File: 1657802849683.jpg (120.4 KB, 800x540, cake.jpg)
>>221580Here you go
nonnie No. 221756
File: 1657812534804.gif (2.96 MB, 400x188, f8924f5966483e65dcd885b332dafa…)
i do think that some asian dramas do come close to being female gazey, with the camera panning up and down on well groomed pretty guys and women staring at them (so the opposite of the "sexy chick walks by a group of workers and they all drool"-trope) but then they often ruin it by having the girls look dumb or making a joke out of themselves by being so head over heels
No. 221808
>>220763>all the normie women who were into 50 Shades "porn addicts" toothey're not porn addicts, but 50 shades of grey ushered more porn-induced brainrot and BDSM crap into the romance novel genre and it does suck. women trying to romanticize
abusive dynamics is part of the romance novel's history, but as a trend it was going away and now with the rise of "dark romances" like this it's coming back. I see it more than anything as a sign that sexual shame (where rapist love interest trope started from) is coming back en masse due to internalized misogyny and failure of sex positivity movement.
No. 221813
>>221756Whoa that belly.
Anon please tell me what this is from.
No. 221838
File: 1657822265330.jpg (129.72 KB, 702x800, T8ZxiKl.jpg)
>>220387this painting reminds me of old romance covers. what are nonnies thoughts on those?
>>22180850 shades was just a mainstream version of the brainrot found in fanfiction for decades. 50 shades was originally a fanfic after all. but to be honest i think gothic writers like anne rice put the groundwork for 50 shades.
anne rice's erotica is freakier than anything the twilight smut writers could come up with.
No. 221888
>>221756As someone who has watched a lot of Asian dramas (and from different countries) I agree. Of course I think a big part of it is that women are the intended audience so it seems obvious that they would include stuff like that, but then again I don't think I've seen anything like that in American stuff so maybe it's not that obvious. I wish there was stuff like this in American media, that would be so based
and I'd love to see the seething from men kek>>221808>but 50 shades of grey ushered more porn-induced brainrot and BDSM crap into the romance novel genre and it does suckYeah I really hate that (as someone who's into romance novels). I'd say that stuff is the minority of what's coming out, but it's still really irritating, especially if you happen to start reading a book and you find out that it's a BDSM book and you didn't know about it beforehand. Like not too long ago I checked out a book that I saw had a lot of hype and it was Greek Mythology inspired (which is what drew me to it in the first place since I love that shit), but after I started reading I found out that it was BDSM and I immediately dropped it. But as for dark romances, it
is a bit concerning how much they're growing in popularity, especially with the amount of teen girls on Tiktok for instance who shill it, I mean I assume that anyone reading dark romances knows that it's just fiction and not something to aspire to, but idk.
>I see it more than anything as a sign that sexual shame is coming back en masse due to internalized misogyny and failure of sex positivity movementhuh that's an interesting theory, honestly you may be right, considering how dark romance tends to be more popular with younger women and teen girls (who are the ones being failed by the sex positivity movement) from what I've seen.
>>221838Old romance covers are so beautiful, it's sad that those illustrated book covers aren't a thing anymore. I would argue that they are female gaze, as well as romance books in general since they're by women for women.
No. 221905
File: 1657831735149.jpeg (72.36 KB, 531x748, 5513FD79-B6E8-4F87-90C6-454C00…)
>>221838Old painted romance covers are lovely, it's a shame current historical covers are often awkward photos. Current trend of illustrated covers like picrel are cute but the lush paintings are missed! And I'm not as familiar with Rice's body of work and influence, and have been avoiding because some of the descriptions of her book plots sound heinous and romanticizing terrible situations.
No. 221906
File: 1657831909063.gif (2.54 MB, 500x326, ezgif-3-22384e6318.gif)
>>221813it's called go princess go
the same actor has another fun drama in which he's a pretty dancing prince while his wife is a general
>>221857i don't quite understand why that would help?
No. 221908
File: 1657832040738.jpeg (394.15 KB, 750x533, 302A90C2-CE28-436C-8414-96B5A3…)
>>221888Many books fall between the lines of clearly BDSM and not-BDSM books, into this murky category that spawned the term "dark romance" and seeing those types of scenes pop up is annoying. I am a completionist at heart and still end up finishing kek.
>I assume that anyone reading dark romances knows that it's just fiction and not something to aspire toThere is the real effect of girls and women romanticizing
abusive relationships and BDSM because of this content, but I think the main effect is on how reinforce their view of themselves as passive, self-objectifying, and dissociating during sex.
>dark romance tends to be more popular with younger women and teen girls (who are the ones being failed by the sex positivity movement) from what I've seenI think plenty of older women read and write this content too, they just talk about it less or in different spaces. At least being older should be able to tell reality and fiction apart better and men will be less porn-brained than younger generations. There are a few nonfiction books on romance novel history, Beyond Heaving Bosoms includes discussion on the topic of rapist heroes. I like to read historical romance and there's still plenty of them, so sexual shame looks to be a constant amongst old and younger generations unfortunately.
No. 222053
>>221970I haven't read it, but in general femdom exists as a novelty in the wider realm of BDSM and even female-oriented sexual content. It being viewed by men (and women) as special or different, only reifies women being submissive and men being in power as the norm (I hope that makes sense). Not to mention that it is (near) impossible to escape male gaze, in which femdom is the fetishization and dismissal of women's anger towards men. Femdom is still women being invested in the sexualizing of power dynamics and violence which is at heart of BDSM. I don't have extreme criticism towards women enjoying it, and like following the femdom thread here myself. Sadistic Beauty sounds like a type of revenge type of story, which is a trope in romance content I like too. I didn't know it was done, I'll check it out in the future.
> I see it as the opposite of this dark romance you're talking about, although it still has a lot of BDSM shit in it.I can see why, dark romance involves the man grovelling (to some degree) and redeeming himself in eyes of protagonist so they can have their "happy ending".
No. 222603
File: 1658077664410.jpg (82.94 KB, 646x364, they don't get it.jpg)
me explaining how my favourite sausage fest action games are totally female gaze
No. 222619
File: 1658081558544.jpg (Spoiler Image,468.88 KB, 1080x2033, IMG_20220717_130534.jpg)
>>222606
I only read an episode, but I remember that I stopped because it felt like a scrote's fantasy. Why would I feel attracted to a Pervy loser anyways? Maybe it's just me tho kek
No. 222634
>>220550Such a blessed Miyavi era. Yeah, a ton of jrock bands were majority female fanbase. I think only Dir en grey was evenly matched gender fanbase.
I too always thought vk and early jrock was female gazey. They were like host boys, but only played music to impress women for their money.
No. 222652
File: 1658088927653.jpg (31.07 KB, 640x325, HIDEOGETOUT.jpg)
>>222632And then he put himself in the game? He's definitely got some fantasy shit going on.
No. 222667
File: 1658093547552.jpg (221.09 KB, 1152x1124, 12526266474.jpg)
>>222632literally me but i am in general obsessed with raiden. i still have the delusional hope that one day mgr2 is announced
No. 222680
File: 1658098043077.jpeg (283.8 KB, 800x1102, D802E6F2-D8B9-4E95-8B6F-6DF5AD…)
Let me ask this, does he (and Owen Grey) make female gaze porn? Or is it still primarily for men to get off to?
No. 222783
>>222779I think he just does it to fuck with the male players honestly, not to appeal to women (at least not initially) except for Raiden which was explicitly for the women and even then Kojima poked fun at him because "haha you guys hated that effeminate guy who replaced your favorite manly hero Solid Snake™"
So I think the main purpose of
some of the "female gaze" stuff is actually just a joke.
No. 222800
File: 1658130649349.png (325.29 KB, 637x619, 1581949731331.png)
>>222625>>222606I don't get those women's mentality. Why are they reading a femdom comic if they hate the concept? And why is it specifically wrong if a woman is the one being cruel to a man? I can only guess that it's some deep misogyny going on there.
I thought the only good parts of SB was when MC beat up the sexy asshole hunk sexily. Now that's the stuff I want to see: Buff men being submissive to women.
No. 222809
>>222783Girl, we are talking about a men salivating all over Mads Mikkelsen. No way he isn't bi/gay and everything homoerotic in MGS is muh Russian taunt.
I love Raiden so fucking much
No. 222838
>>221911>those cheap erotic historic romance novels are probably the most female gaze you can getwritten by older ladies for older ladies, with some young long haired beau in a ripped open white shirt on the cover and then 100 pages of describing his sexy body and gigantic manhood kek
but nonnies are calling them porn sick even though those novels were written before porn became mainstream. i think too many nonnies just find aspects of other women's desires cringeworthy and label is a porn sick (e.g. the fujo sperging) kek.
it's cringeworthy and embarrassing but it's weird to dismiss it as porn sick when men hate and ridicule it. Same with Stephanie Meyer's weird mormon vampire fantasies
No. 222851
File: 1658151362514.png (1.17 MB, 1069x1672, Mgs2raiden (1).png)
>>222667MY BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>222783How is him fucking with male fans not based
No. 222853
>>222811
First off, it's a woman's revenge fantasy, it doesn't matter if it's possible for a buff man to be submissive in the real world or not. Second, he doesn't pretend to like being dommed, on the contrary, he tries to hide it because of his massive ego, but deep down lets the MC hit him, humiliate him, use him to give her cunnilingus, and fuck him in the ass when she pleases because he still loves her and likes to be used by her but can't admit it. (And she doesn't love him back, she just uses him for sex and then leaves him when she realizes he hasn't changed, which kills him inside and leads into his captivity in the BL side story.)
>>222835
If you don't know the context and don't read it then shut the fuck up
No. 222861
File: 1658153491118.jpg (32 KB, 247x1200, bosselot confirmed.jpg)
>>222787Here's one of the evidence that BB/Ocelot is pretty much canon. It's from a MGS3 commentary thing, I don't remember the name of the website or blog where I found this but there are way more comments than that on many more scenes. It's the scene at the beginning where BB prevents Eva from shooting Ocelot while he's fleeing. Kojima confirms it was love at first sight and that their love is pure, and it's definitely not platonic given the words used.
>>222850The people in these threads are exceptions, a very loud minority. Fujoshi turning into fakebois to imitate their favorite anime or JRPG boys is a recent Western trend, you barely see it nearly as often in Asian fanbases. I'll stop now though, I don't want another derail either.
No. 222889
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>>222836
i think his obsession with mads is the same as guys into lifting who praise other dudes muscles in nearly erotic detail. plenty of women have a girlcrush, it's just rare to see a moid open about his mancrush.
No. 222900
>>222683Consider this for example: faceless/unrealistic humanoid female protagonist encounters a variety of smitten husbandos. Lots of innocently revealing or dirty shots. The scenes focus on the male characters blushing, worshiping, orgasming etc as they stimulate the protagonists exogenous zones. All the while using glistening, fleshy shots of the mans body parts heaving and getting into it. Good vibes, no sadism, plenty of male moaning.
Then, you could switch it around and have the protagonist or fucking alien monster tie up and contort a dude. You could have a lot of bodies pressed together struggling as he gives in to whatever’s going on. From here it depends on what the audience likes, lots of touching or movement of those preferred body parts. Female gaze porn would only require sexy characters and situations with nothing off putting to kill the mood. No shitty fake female responses or vocalisation and a forward protagonist that’s easy to imprint on.
No. 222919
File: 1658162333835.png (22.22 KB, 982x149, raiden.png)
>>222632>>222638Seeing
>>222641 post reminded me that Kojima made Raiden specifically because of a female player letter to him! True female gaze here kek
No. 222924
File: 1658164083268.jpg (144.61 KB, 939x645, 12`12`2.jpg)
Ultimately I think the one thing that this thread has proven is that there is no single female gaze, people can like different things, I like seeing hot guys being stoic but also slightly vulnerable, some people are into sub buff guys and some are into pretty boys with monster cocks, ultimately we should accept these different preferences and not force our tastes on others
picrel, some women will prefer guy on the left and others guy on the right but both are hot in their own way
No. 222936
File: 1658166434240.jpg (53.73 KB, 400x500, 1591628491026.jpg)
>>222924Speaking of Dolph Lundgren
No. 222949
File: 1658169795385.jpg (67.02 KB, 363x500, masters-of-the-universe-lg.jpg)
>>222936The only reason I watched this shit movie
No. 223011
>>222900>Consider this for example: faceless/unrealistic humanoid female protagonistNo, I meant that I don't believe real porn for women could exist. Obviously 2D is superior because it makes female gaze porn possible and it doesn't involve real people (and most importantly, real women). Therefore, when done right, it's more likely to attract a female audience than a male one, unlike real porn which would probably always attract more males.
>>222861>Here's one of the evidence that BB/Ocelot is pretty much canon.Yes anon I know, I've saved that exact same pic from another thread. Bosselot is most definitely not a joke. That's not what I was talking about.
>>222851>How is him fucking with male fans not basedI didn't say it wasn't? just that the funny Snake ass thing probably wasn't done with a female audience in mind, but as a joke (although it did end up being female gaze by accident)
No. 223048
>>223045Samefag, I guess I forgot to clarify this, but you're right. Femdom was created by and for men, and the best majority of what you'll see that is called "femdom" is a scrote fetish.
But female-oriented femdom does exist, and has the potential to be even bigger than it is now. Especially in the realm of 2D, where the men can easily look more appealing to the female gaze than any moid in the porn industry could, the women can look as unappealing and/or bland as to not distract the viewer (or attract moid viewers) and the angles can easily be drawn in a way that focuses of what women want to see.
Besides, there's literature as well. Anything is possible if it's written or drawn.
>>223046Could you give some examples of specific scenes or something that proves that those manhwa by and for women are indeed male gaze and not female gaze?
No. 223070
>>223063This is true. For the longest time, I believed I was abnormal since "femgaze" material didn't appeal to me. It turns out that I simply have different tastes.
ngl, I was going to ask how one can employ female gaze to attract a predominantly female audience. But, with such diverse tastes and desires, I don't believe that's conceivable. It's not impossible, but it's a Herculean undertaking to take on.
No. 223098
File: 1658238143785.jpg (41.07 KB, 1024x640, R.jpg)
>>223095The female gaze is simply things portrayed from the female mind and view. It can be all sorts of things, like femdom. It can be non-sexual things.
The movie Portrait of a lady on fire is a great example of the female gaze. It's written and directed by a woman. There is nothing scroteish whatsoever about the way the women in the movie are filmed and portrayed. Also literally about the female gaze, as one of the characters is a painter.
No. 223144
>>223051>mommyYou're still thinking of the scrote fetish version of femdom (no one here who likes femdom likes mommyshit) and it doesn't have to involve fucking torture devices either. As is the case with a lot of sex-related things, most women who think they are into femdom are only being brainwashed into accepting and liking the male version of it (like those women who are manipulated into being a "mommy dommy" for their lazy and demanding troon boyfriends) as well as BDSM, not knowing that femdom could be different and better.
It's ok if you don't get it, although you could at least make an effort to read the femdom thread we have here before repeating the same shit over and over about how femdom is totally gross and male-gaze while describing a male femdom fantasy and not a female one.
>>223070>I was going to ask how one can employ female gaze to attract a predominantly female audience. But, with such diverse tastes and desires, I don't believe that's conceivable.You can still attract a predominantly female audience even if you just cater to a very specific niche that not all women like. I'll give you an example:
Tumblr Sexymen are an obvious female thing, but a lot of women think it's cringe and ridicule it, although that doesn't change the fact that it's exclusively women who are into it.
So you don't have to pander to every kind of woman to get a majority female audience. You just have to target one niche audience that is guaranteed to be full of women.
No. 223195
File: 1658258294139.jpg (18.24 KB, 257x400, 7c4944ff56b578882d64b067737c6c…)
Many pics of Damon albarn in the 90s/blur era are female gazey
No. 223218
File: 1658264829657.jpg (237.73 KB, 2132x2504, Picsart_22-07-19_18-03-54-280~…)
From the first "character designs we like" thread.
No. 223231
>>223188>I tried reading the femdom thread in /g/ it's just anons talking about how they want to jerk a guy off What? I have never seen anyone in that thread say something like this, most of the time you'll get shat on if you say that's femdom.
What I do remember from recent threads is that anons were talking about having a knight who's completely loyal to you and does everything you say, or a butler or something like that. There was an anonymous who might've been LARPing but said she had found herself a stupid guy who only cares about pleasuring her and doesn't even mind if he doesn't cum. That sort of stuff.
No. 224526
File: 1658769499726.jpg (81.87 KB, 552x599, FRb3MxcWQAEuZ.jpg)
Someone posted this pic in another thread and said it belonged here, I very much agree
No. 253134
File: 1667594858541.webm (1.3 MB, 480x852, moni HELLO SIR .webm)
No. 253136
File: 1667595239227.jpeg (86.49 KB, 700x704, D82BC1D0-4E31-4AB5-924C-AEDF2F…)
I love androgynous dumb boys dressed in revealing clothes but I hate that they only exist in fiction. Any man who dresses to purposefully look sexy and feminine is an agp coomer or deranged homosexual. Why can’t I just have an impossibly attractive dumb tragic backstoryboy in leather straps like in my otome games but in real life? I literally feel oppressed.
No. 253138
File: 1667595572783.jpeg (400.14 KB, 520x890, FF380961-0F27-4355-9420-D22828…)
>>253136So what if he’s homosexual? You can enjoy him anyway. If you don’t want to because you’re repulsed by faggots, just make one of your own.
dollpilled chad > heckin’ alive fleshcels.
No. 253141
>>253137I wish we evolved like birds and men were actually sexy. Dressing themselves ornately and prostrating themselves before me just to get my attention. It’s literally not fair.
Even the men who try to make themselves attractive are just 0 empathy monkeys who are too dumb to understand what women want and turn themselves into gym gorillas or dress like they’re in an ad for erectile dysfunction pills, you know because other dumb men tell them that’s what attractive. I HATE IT I HATE IT !!! Irl moids are dumb in an infuriating way and not in a cute and vulnerable way.
No. 253142
>>253138I have had lots of unrequited loves with hono men. They’re cute but they’re horrible peopl3, like most men. I don’t wanna fuck that doll it looks weird af. I’d rather collect bjds with impossibly cute faces and dress them up in all kinds of cute clothes and pose them for cute photographs. Having a giant silicone man dildo is just creepy
nonny, ngl.
No. 253144
>>253136well you see another problem is that irl moids can't really pull off that look well past 25 and that's only if they're already very attractive to begin with. but you might like kpop idols since most of them lean into that look
where i live almost every man older than 20 has short hair (if they aren't balding) and a hideous beard
No. 253148
File: 1667597506346.jpeg (972.94 KB, 2632x948, 3F25E458-BF0E-4680-A9C3-0301B7…)
What a fucking waste. He’s parading himself around like an heirloom hog that has managed to evade slaughter for a little too long because the farmer’s daughter took a liking to him as a little piglet and now his flesh is too rubbery to eat so they let him hang around until she inevitably gets bored of him. Are men truly this retarded and blind that they turn themselves into hamplanets when they decide to chomp down an extra sandwich or two for lunch? Jesus fucking CHRIST, what a hideous obese retard. You could sustain an entire orphanage in Africa with the flesh on his bones alone for up to six months.
What is especially chilling about this “incident” is how gleeful the mainstream media is when reporting it. Do you trust journalists deranged enough to think this is somehow an improvement to tell you the truth about Iran’s nukes? We are quick to take their sides when they have their heads chopped off by the al qaeda, but do we ever stop to think that maybe they deserved it? Have we been the bad guys all along?
I fucking hate men so much, sisters.
No. 256316
File: 1668892060381.gif (1.72 MB, 325x232, 1668593890339-1.gif)
No. 256378
>>256369I assume wrestling? But please
>>256316 nonny tell us where it's from!
No. 256530
File: 1668970695692.jpg (31.98 KB, 400x572, Tumblr_l_4352231660286711.jpg)
I'm trying so hard to keep this thread alive, please nonas I need your help
No. 256537
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No. 256538
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No. 256543
File: 1668973100701.jpg (203.81 KB, 1200x785, 1657648923141.jpg)
No. 256551
>>220350I agree with all you've said. Treating female gaze as nonexistent or a mystery only feeds into scrote myths about us, imo. It's alive and well, may get polluted by the outside or taken too far by aidens but it's ours. As for the second part of your post, fictional "
abusive obsessive love" is something I like but only because it's in a fantasy I can control. I like the idea of a guy being out of his mind obsessed. In muh yaois I also like to see the object of that affection be subjected to it. Irl this is always fucked up and wrong, and to deal with it even in a mild form would be a huge pain.
No. 256554
File: 1668975517525.gif (2.44 MB, 270x396, 1668139792742.gif)
>>256316the joker is my face right now, damn
No. 256555
File: 1668975588491.jpg (119.63 KB, 782x1000, 1663961302828.jpg)
No. 256556
File: 1668975821969.gif (4.66 MB, 498x460, 1668263585838.gif)
No. 256564
File: 1668978034511.jpeg (439.95 KB, 2046x1736, C80C8880-90DF-4864-90D3-E21154…)
In my experience the female gaze differs a large amount between women, possibly more than men's between themselves. However a few things that tend to be common are men who can be described as pretty, a focus on emotion, and an aura of romance. Even those aren't universal as you can tell all across /g/. But certain visuals and themes will get a wider appreciation with us than others and it's those that are probably what I'd call female gaze. It can be a lot subtler than the male gaze so it's harder to narrow down. I'm also biased toward my own tastes lol. Agree with other nonas about liking guys who put the right amount of effort into their appearance but still maintain a sense of masculinity and when it seems more for women than other men. He has to also show a little personality and sentience, a run-of-the-mill coomer moid ain't it. Howl is a good example of a popular female gaze character but he's 2D. I can think of more 2D than 3D examples since real men don't achieve it as much nor show as much depth.
No. 256565
File: 1668978300332.jpeg (68.07 KB, 600x667, FA000804-14DD-4BCE-95B8-935555…)
>>256564For a real person, Atsushi Sakurai is popular for catering to the female gaze
but he aged out of it. No. 256567
File: 1668978541217.jpeg (84.85 KB, 480x706, 8DCED25A-4CF4-413C-807F-CEB5C2…)
No. 256568
File: 1668978839948.jpeg (156.24 KB, 749x999, FA81C807-942E-4667-8826-559F64…)
No. 256571
File: 1668979067233.jpeg (149.95 KB, 1280x985, 1CB6CE86-579C-4859-9695-1CE1D1…)
>>256565The second I see Acchan I’m summoned. They don’t make men like this anymore, truly exuding romance
No. 256573
File: 1668979487401.gif (1.78 MB, 500x288, 808435F2-6E1B-4824-8B81-A3B0DE…)
I remember tumblr girls thirsting over male backs
No. 258547
File: 1669587064373.jpg (415 KB, 1224x1916, Tumblr_l_4542577297154672.jpg)
No. 258548
File: 1669587085379.jpg (1.35 MB, 1324x2048, Tumblr_l_4542583606505821.jpg)
