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File: 1582931084063.jpg (85.65 KB, 625x428, hstry.jpg)

No. 77294

a thread for anything and everything about what has happened on the planet up to now. for students, experts, and laywomen alike

>tidbits

>anecdotes
>quotes
>discussions
>questions
>questions about the craft of the historian
>movies, book, docu recommendations
>anything interesting
>anything complementary

all time periods, all aspects, all peoples, all locations, etc etc etc

No. 77301

File: 1582932388921.jpg (199.32 KB, 1200x1536, Crispus_Attucks.jpg)

the first person to die for the united states was a black man. his name was Chrispus Attucks and he was killed in the American Revolution. It was said that the army which enlists black men were bound to win, thus why the US enlisted them.
This changed by the time of the Civil War. The enlistment of black soldiers in the Civil War was controversial because then, the discourse around black men had changed; now they were seen as incompetent in war as they were viewed to be too dumb and inferior. yet, black men were simultaneously seen as violent, especially towards white women. Lincoln neither promoted nor disallowed their enlistment for the Union, he just let it happen as he was just as racist.

No. 77302

my professor said Sumerian was not the first language found in the world. There were writings in a cave not close to Sumer

No. 77305

File: 1582933358794.jpg (202.03 KB, 1600x1172, blackwhites.jpg)

The reason there is controversy around Egypt being white, which is in no way fucking true and I think we all know this, is because Europeans took over their culture to take their credit, and redefined the Egyptian people. The Europeans called the Egyptians "wooly-headed whites" or "black whites". Therefore, they are respected and their knowledge can be assimilated into European lexicon. Aristotle and other Greek philosophers say explicitly they learned from African philosophers.

No. 77318

Part of a letter from Oda Nobunaga to Toyotomi Hideyoshi's wife Nene. The last bit made me chuckle as it's just blatant trolling.

>It has been quite sometime since I last saw you, but your beauty grows day by day. Tokichiro [Hideyoshi] complains about you constantly and it is outrageous. While that bald rat [Hideyoshi] flusters to find another good woman, you remain lofty and elegant. Do not be envious. Show Hideyoshi this letter.

No. 77332

>>77305
Well no. Egyptians as described by the greeks themselves don't describe them as black either.This isn't a WE WUZ KANGZ

When DNA testing is done and they recreate the mummies faces, often times they are a light skin tone.

Some Egyptian mummies have blonde hair and Blue eyes.

African scholars also doesn't mean black people. By definition modern day Egyptians are African.

No. 77333

The Egyptians weren't black or white,they were probably dark skinned but not dark enough to be black,I believe Egyptians looked more Mediterranean than black or even white

No. 77341

>>77333
this. just look at the way people look in the surrounding regions and take an educated guess.

No. 77343

>>77305
>Europeans took over their culture

???? are you a daft bitch why tf you in this thread?

the reason there is controversy around it is because african americans want to feel special since people shit on the countries they are actually from.

No. 77354

Anyone know anything about Mayans? I have really thick indigenous ancestry from my country and the tribes I have ties to are direct descendants. Everything I know is spooky conquistador stories my family told me and basic mayan facts online. I haven't taken anything other than American and euro history so I apologize for being retarded.

No. 77356

>>77305
>fucking literal WE WUZ KANGZ post
Dude

No. 77358

>>77305
literally no one considered them "white" Europeans, they were always viewed racially most similar to jews and Arabs i.e semities

No. 77373

>>77305
I love how people, especially black Americans, try to pretend north africa as a whole just doesn't exist. This applies to the whole region, not just Egypt, but I see it way more often with Egypt because it's just more famous overall.

No. 77385

File: 1582987342466.jpg (36.93 KB, 484x362, hscf35fg4ax31.jpg)

Working class women strikers of the early 1900s often dragged up their fashion to show a lady worker who engaged in consumer culture could also be a political component. Their overly feminine identity was written out in labor records by male unionizers so they would appear more serious and rational

No. 77406

>>77305
Surprised you didn't call it Kemet while you were at it

No. 77421

Do you guys have some documentaries (on YouTube but other video hosting sites are OK too) which are your absolute personal favorites? If so, please share.

No. 77429


No. 77784

When Viet Cong troops covertly infiltrated South Vietnam, some were ordered to dress as women and hide their AK-47s under their dresses

No. 77992

File: 1583377218741.jpg (275.81 KB, 899x1200, uxmal-mayan-ruins-mexico-10.jp…)

>>77354
Mayans are probably the American civilization I'm least interested in, but I can still give you some fun facts.
For one, many people believe that Mayan civilization completely collapsed in the 9th century. Actually, the collapse happened on a city by city basis and some Mayan cities lasted up until the Spanish conquest. For example, the Qiche state existed into the 16th century and produced the Popol Vuh, which is one of the only remaining books on mesoamerican religion and culture written before European contact. Actually, there are still a lot of Qiche speakers around today, speaking a language and living a lifestyle directly descended from that of the ancient Mayans. There's also Uxmal, which many people are not familiar with. It's full of really unique architecture, pic related.
Another interesting thing about the Maya is that you can actually learn to write in Mayan script today. I found a book teaching it in my local library and I saw an anon on /his/ sharing some poetry they wrote in Mayan script.
>>77305
Are you going to say that the Olmecs were black too next?

No. 78240

cool thread anon

I like a lot of different eras in history, and I'm really into historical costumes/re-creation etc. my lifelong dream has been to work at a ren faire, we have a local one but it's small af. I want to be part of a bigger one but I heard that there's apparently a ton of debauchery that goes on, like the people who work there camp out overnight and drink heavily and have orgies or something, which is not only surprising but makes me sad.

No. 78277

Any anons able to explain/summarise the Troubles? I feel ashamed being ignorant of it and I think a lot of discussion I see of it is inherently biased

No. 78321

File: 1583616973601.png (247.84 KB, 500x656, with-threads-like-these-cant-l…)

>>77305
>this post

No. 78346

>>78277
>England conquered Ireland
>Britain gradually becomes protestant while Ireland remains Catholic
>during the 16th and 17th centuries, England sends a english and scottish protestant settlers to repopulate Ireland(they only have foothold in the north)
>Irish potato famine happens leading to 1 Million deaths(in a country with a population just 7 million at that time) and a further 2.5 million to emigrate to the new-world to escape the famine(unrelated but Che Guevara's ancestors were actually Irish immgrants as well)
>Irish nationalism further increases
>During WW1 the Irish men and women stage a rebellion (partially supported by Germany) dubbed the Easter Rising
>In 1919 after 700 years of British occupation Ireland wins its independence in a general election
>problems arise when the north overwhelmingly supports staying with the United Kingdom cause their protestants
>Ireland is divided between the North and South
>The North remains part of the UK while the rest of Ireland gets independence
>but a catholic minority remains in the north
>segregation is enforced between catholics and protestant, and catholics start being persecuted(It should be noted that the average Northern Irish protestant was far more religious and fanatic then a english protestant)
>The Provisional Irish Republican Army forms as a "protection unit" for Irish catholics
>a number of attacks happen and the British army has to be sent in to protect the protestants
>ethnic paramilitary death squads start arisin on both sides
>what follows is a confusing and complex period where its hard to hell whose the bad guy

No. 78364

>>78346
thank you very much, it's such a sore subject that I don't want to come off as ignorant if it were to ever come up in some discussion. Also that song is also what partially made me want to look further into it recently! That fan-made video is powerful.

No. 78782

File: 1583999625793.jpg (198.88 KB, 1484x1174, meowx7hga6a21.jpg)

>>78364
>>78346
My favorite pic from that period

>A Bomb Disposal Officer approaches a car bomb [1970]

No. 78850

>>78277
Just some tidbits to add on to this because oddly enough I live in Norn Iron and this is stuff I heard from my folks and experienced.

>Parent's mentioned about Catholics facing discrimination from police (they were usually all protestants) along with the army, they had originally been glad of the army coming thinking it would be a neutral force.

>Catholics were treated as 2nd class citizens, usually over looked for jobs/housing
>Catholics were also not allowed to own housing so because back then you had to own a house to vote and it was more catholics stuck to a house it still equalled a single vote

I grew up in the 90's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCiDuy4mrWU

so the things I noticed a lot
>army and police patrols
I remember playing hide and seek and pom pom, I think it's called that, pom pom was like having a spot , usually a lamppost and if you could run and reach it before the other person noticed you and ran back to touch it you were free, anyways I remember playing this and running down my street and turning a corner coming across 4-5 army guys in black sporting guns with a few parked police vans
>they let me look through the guns scope was chill
>walking around with large machineguns
>if someone was beating their wife/girlfriend/know for doing abuse/date rape and the police did nothing, there was usually guys 'he's in the ra' that would give him a talk and to leave town if it was serious enough
>police vans and patrols at night
>being jumped if you were catholic/protestant or wandered into catholic/protestant areas
>some places would be painted in the tri colour or the british flag
>my uncle always said it was like dogs pissing on a lamppost for both sides
>bomb scares and bombs
It became more like a annoyance like a traffic jam

but yeahs thats all, most of the catholic/protestant division stuff is such bullshit it's tacked on hate trying to infect another generation, no one is any different and most of my generation doesn't give a shit if you're catholic or protestant

'Derry girls' helps show off the vibe a lil

No. 81398

I know this is years late, but can you believe people were actually upset that a game set in historical central Europe didn't feature enough brown people, like Jesus Christ it feels like a parody

https://unwinnable.com/2018/03/02/deliverance-myth-making-and-historical-accuracy/

No. 88937

>>77332 yeah but there's all sorts of issues with those studies, they only look at mitochondrial DNA (i think) and the only people preserved are royalty/elite who may not be representative of general populations.
plus the researchers usually really want to prove their particular beliefs so the evidence can be manipulated.

No. 89694

Oldest reconstructed song, from ancient Greece around 200 BC, by Seikilos in dedication to his dead wife.

He also inscribed a poem on the gravestone:

"As long as you live, shine,
Let nothing grieve you beyond measure.
For your life is short,
and time will claim its toll."

Just found it kinda interesting and depressing.

No. 121736

File: 1610423675834.png (78.29 KB, 720x742, Screenshot_20210112-084845.png)

So there's this fairly recent trend on tumblr and twitter of gaywashing certain historical figures or even entire civilizations, yes historically there have been instances of lgb individuals whose stories have been suppressed however the leaps certain Tumdards make are rediculous
I have seen people try to imply that Cleopatra and Marc Anthony were both Bisexual and Poly cause they were "Greek" and Greeks are now all apparently Pansexual Poly woke people suddenly
The most common same sexual relationship practiced in aincent Greece was Pedastry between adult men and Boys, it was also something practiced by the aristocracy, this was also present in various Islamic societies, Pedastry still is common in those countries

Now it would be thing if they were fictional characters that they try to argue were actually gay but these are actual people who lived and died and loved and these dumb asses are treating them like their some stupid show or something, I mean they'd rather trust the works of gender studies professors who are not at all qualified historians rather then actual Historians who spend decades of their lives trying in their research

No. 121741

>>121736
THey don’t actually care about the history at all. I fucking hate the “ X historical figure is gay/trans/POC” trend, especially when it come to stuff like Hamilton, woke twitter likes to parade around how all the actor are POC ect. But fails to mention that the majority of the male historical figures, jefferson in particular raped all of his female slaves. I get that historical fiction is a thing, but constantly rewriting actual historical figures lives and have it be presented as fact is extreamly gross ad disturbing, especially when the majority of the stories subject to this are ones about women, like cleopatra, ada Lovelace ect. Why is it always the gender studies crowd outdoing the,self’s in mysogieny

No. 121743

>>121741
The founding fathers of America were interesting though, I remember one of my teachers described them as "Enlightented Anarchists and nigger stealers" most of them were Diests and Freemasons, If they'd existed today they'd be hated by /pol/ and tumblr

The modern discussion of Cleopatra is just tiresome, especially with regards to her race, they try to argue she was a "POC", like she was of Greek and slight Egyptian ancestry, she, her family and the Egyptians themselves wouldn't have appeared that different from the Mediterranean Italians

They really add in neo-liberal modern American concepts of race to every thing

No. 121744

>>77354
I hope you can learn more about your roots anon, that is if you care about it.

No. 121752

>>121743
I find early America / founding fathers to be extremely interesting tbh. I’m still learning/ educating myself on a lot of there works but its so interesting to see how our modern times/perspectives and struggles we still face somewhat echoed in the early works/what they fought against Britain for. You really turn into the monster that you despised

Applying our modern US western centered idea of race onto past historical figures and times really just makes no sense at all. Ive only seen it rewrite facts in order to pursued opinions. Is it a form of colonialism that people in the future will recognize or is it just a passing trend to be forgotten? Who knows

No. 122918

I'm an ex-muslim but I'm recently starting to really understand Islam now better then when I was previously Islam, It's actually quite bizarre reading from an objective point of view, for e.g the name Muhammad gets only mentioned four throughout the Quran , for e.g most of the Quran(which is rather short btw you could read the whole thing one in a couple hours in one sitting) is about the political conflict between the Hashemite clan(Mohammad's clan) and the Querish clan over the city of Mecca, then there's a lot of bizarre references for e.g the prophets Hud, Shuaib and Saleh, there are three figures that have newer referenced in any sort of Abrahamic text but according the Quran all three were separate Arab prophets sent to the Arabs to bring them to Islam and all of them failed and god's punishment was that the Arabs who didn't follow them were wiped out

its very clear to me now that In the beginning Islam was just some non-Trinatarian Arab christian sect that developed into it's own thing

No. 122974

Anyone who thinks the ancient Egyptian rulers were only ever one race is either coping or is ignorant of their history and geography.

Different dynasties ruled Egypt at different times.

No. 122975

File: 1611173168328.jpg (734.5 KB, 1000x667, 06EPA3M.jpg)

The richest man to ever live is the Malian emperor Mansa Musa.

When he traveled to Egypt, he was known for being generous and purchasing street goods with gold. But this unintentionally led to Egypt's metal depreciating.

No. 122977

File: 1611174192457.png (426.59 KB, 576x397, nvlzwq5.png)

"During the first world war, with the tapping of the American Army’s phone lines, the Germans were able to learn the location of where the Allied Forces were stationed, as well as where supplies were kept. When the Choctaw men were put on the phones and talked in their Native speech, the Germans couldn’t effectively spy on the transmissions. Native Americans did not receive nationwide citizenship until 1924, yet the Choctaws were both patriotic and valiant, with a desire to serve in the war effort. Many Choctaw men volunteered in WWI to fight for our country. Choctaw Code Talkers of WWI were instrumental in ending war. Members of Choctaw and other Tribal Nations also served with distinction using Native languages in World War II, Korea and Vietnam."

No. 122994

>>122918
Hey there fellow exmuslim! Yeah it's pretty wild reading the Quran objectively for the first time. One of the things I noticed was how repetitive (and frankly boring) it can be, no wonder they invented tajwid to make it sound more interesting. It also becomes really obvious that it was written by some desert tribe dweller. A lot of things in it seem too unimportant to mention in a book that is supposed to be the rulebook of a religion (like most of mo's minor political conflicts) while some of Islam's most important teachings, like how to pray, were left to the Hadith.

>its very clear to me now that In the beginning Islam was just some non-Trinatarian Arab christian sect that developed into it's own thing

I'm not really a history buff so I don't know much about non-biased speculations about Islam's origin. Could you elaborate?

No. 123028

File: 1611203910666.jpg (192.24 KB, 629x600, 629px-Sednaya_Mary.jpg)

>>122994
Alright after Jesus died and his cult grew far and wide throughout the Roman Empire and its surrounding areas, there were a lot of "interpretations" of what exactly Jesus was, he was a a savior but was he just a man, a God, the manifestation of god, the son of god, an essence of god e.t.c however the one interpretation that ended up being adopted by the Roman state was Nicene Creed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed

From that point on it was the Trinitarian belief that was accepted by the Roman State, Jesus being the son of god and the holy spirt aspect, but non-Trinitarian sects did exist and were often persecuted, the 2 most popular of these sects being the Arian and Nestorian christian sects, Arianism was common in northern Africa, Spain and and even Northern Europe, while Nestorianism spread Eastward into the Persian Empire, Central Asia and even on the fringe borders of China and as well as Arabia, now the Quran does mention Christians but identifies them as being Trinitarian and following a form of the Trinity literally no one followed, Jesus, God and Mary and that absolutely would not have been the case, at that point you would likely only meet a non-Trinitarian Arab christian in that region

now lets go the early Islamic conquests, now you see for 26 years the Byzantines and Persians were caught in bloody war lasting 24 years, Egypt was in ruins and the mesopotamia was devastated,

When the Arabs invaded the Romans did outnumber Arabs . But it wasn't 7 to 1. Those numbers mostly come from later Arab sources, which claim that the Romans had armies as large as 150,000 or even 200,000

However, this is very obviously preposterous, since the Romans were unable to raise even 30,000 during Justinian's reconquest just a 100 years before the Islamic conquests. So them claiming that they could raise 200,000 troops after an exhausting 26 year war against the Persians, is ridiculous. After defeating the Roman army at Yarmouk, the Muslims had basically a free pass to take as much land as he wanted, since they had destroyed the only proper Roman army at Yarmouk, and the Romans were unable to raise more troops to stop them but then local involvement is also a factor

It's likely that the Arain Christians would have seen the early Muslims as being closer to their theology then the Eastern Romans, and the Eastern Romans themself up until the 10th century referred to the Islamic states as being nothing more then a Christian heresy

how something seems to have happened in 200-300 which made the caliphate rulers want to dissociate themselves from Christianity and their christian origins and differentiate Islam as a separate religion all together, The Hadiths are likely all made up and promoted by the state, if we remove them and leave only the Quran we end up with basically just a non-Trinatarian Arab religious book

No. 123120

>>121736
Reminds me of the crowd trying to push for Hatshepsut being trans.

No. 123256

>>123028
Now that's really interesting, thanks anon! I've also often heard of the links between Islam and Zoroastrianism, (especially similarities in their teachings) so I've always wondered if islam was a mix of the religions that were common place in Arabia and surroundings at the time. Shame that's it's a bit difficult to find reliable resources on this, given how controversial the topic can be

No. 123258

File: 1611351366554.jpg (99.28 KB, 1082x796, Portrait_of_a_Manichaean.jpg)

>>123256
Likely not direct Zoroastrianism but most likely Mechanism, Mechanism was a religion that began in the Persian Empire in the Third century spreading to Northern Africa, Persia, Central Asia and Arabia, Manichaeism was a mixture of early Christianity and Zoroastrianism, the practices and rituals seemed to be based in Zoroastrianism but the theology was a mixture of the two, Zoroaster was made an Abrahamic prophet and his last Prophet, their last Prophet was called Mani and had the "Seal of Prophethood on his back" which is something Muhammad is described having

No. 123262

I was reading about the Baal Cycle and bits and pieces of the thing itself. Very wholesome god that loved humans and had a major weakness that he couldn't deliver the killing blow to his enemies, needed his wives to jeer him kek. Got killed because he thought it was a good idea to try and befriend the god of death.

It's pretty wild what he got associated with in the Bible. Some crazy slander in there.

No. 123298

>>123262
Well I mean Canaanites and the Hebrews were both western Semites with similar mythologies but the Hebrews were far more war life, Yahweh is primarily a god of conquest and war, even Islam's Allah doesn't compare to the cruelty and level of violence enshrined by Yahweh

He orders his people to commit genocide, he punishes children or even entire nations for the sins of their fathers, he encourages lying and cruelty so long as it's done in his name, he is what the Hebrew people needed him to be, A war God

No. 130451

Regarding the Crusades, I don't understand why Alt-righters and Muslims are so obsessed with them and politicize them

The Crusaders were of course ambitious and at times brutal conquerors but not neccesarily far from the norm barring their origin. I also dislike how when discussing the Crusades that people often ignore the Mamluks(Slave soldier of mostly Turkic and Slavic origin), their achievements, and how they essentially genocided Outremer and razed antioch which made the earlier sacks of Crusaders pale in comparison. The final issue is well the crusades were part of a wider series of counterwars to take back land the Muslims had invaded

No. 133196

After many years I have come the conclusion that no one cultures really creates anything, everything is a copy of a copy or a variation that gets copied and evolves over time

Like I find the molding together of West African and Anglo Scots influences in the development of classically "Black" or "American" musical genres like country, bluegrass, and jazz to be fascinating. But pity, people like to think that everything came from one place or whatever since that makes for easier and less complicated history

No. 133206

>>123262
Apparently there is not one Baal, as the term was used for various gods and means "lord". It was possibly even in the earliest times used to refer to the Hebrew god, but that's unsure. It could be that they used to worship a Baal but were struggling to adapt to monotheism (the incident with the golden calf being an example of going back to the old ways of worshipping Baal). Sorry for wikipedia link but I'm lazy, this is the god who demanded child sacrifice Baal Hammon https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baal_Hammon
I believe it is a different god than the one you're referring to but I could be wrong.

No. 133218

File: 1616418563077.jpg (62.92 KB, 338x598, Homme_avec_barbe,_portrait_fun…)

I wasn't sure if I should put this in the art thread because it's so old but I guess a history thread is a good place for it.

I was thinking about mummy brown paint. When I first heard about that fact I just tought about it as "oh that sucks, so many historical artifacts destroyed", but the other day I was looking at videos about Fayum mummy portraits and thinking about how those were people, with faces and families and they had burials for probably the same reasons we have burials, and then it just hit me that they literally mushed up bodies of people and it becomes way worse and much grosser and more morbid. How tf did people at the time not see that as desecration of a corpse? Messed up.

No. 133237

>>133206
You're correct about there being many Baals (heh), though the Baal that most people think about when they hear "Baal" is Hadad, who the stories in the Baal Cycle texts focuses on. He's a pretty nice dude as far as gods go.

As for the child sacrifice thing, all archeological evidence points to that being heavily exaggerated in the Bible and limited to times of extreme turbulence, not even seen positively by the pagans of the time. The only possible evidence for child sacrifice found so far are a couple very small and well-kept child cemeteries in specific locations. There's also evidence that early worshippers of Yahweh engaged in it as well. It seemed to have not been done out of any religious obligation (no scripture has been found calling for it) but out of desperation and ignorance (god will surely answer if I give him my most precious thing, etc). The Bible hypocritically took what even Yahweh followers were doing at the time and attributed it to their enemies as some sadistic pass time to dehumanize them.

>>133218
>How tf did people at the time not see that as desecration of a corpse?
othering, tendency to view ancients as less-than-human

No. 133444

File: 1616559071622.jpg (63.88 KB, 570x446, abbasid.jpg)




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