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File: 1578191056001.jpg (136.5 KB, 1200x800, rey_lastjedi.jpg)

No. 770

A place to discuss..

>how women are portrayed in media

>what we don't like about how women are portrayed
>how we wish women would be portrayed
>favorite female characters in fiction

And anything else pertaining to the discussion of women's portrayal in movies/books/TV etc. No rules except general site rules and please spoiler text if you're going to give major spoilers for something.

No. 775

I'm currently reading the Wheel of Time series, and although I'm enjoying it, there is a huge theme of battle of the sexes in it which I hate. The female characters aren't terrible over all, but you can definitely tell a man wrote them. They are always saying things like "men aren't good for anything even after you train them" and "men can't even tie their shoes without our help" (those aren't exact quotes, but they say stuff like that). Men are always complaining about this, I can't say I care though because most "classics" are rampantly misogynistic and when people criticize it everyone just tells us to get over it. I'm only on book 4 currently and I hope the book gets better about the battle of the sexes theme, though I don't have much hope for it lol.

No. 778

I know Game of Thrones isn't the best when it comes to female character track records but Olenna Tyrell was such a refreshing breath of fresh air. An older woman who's not played as helpless funny grandma, who is dangerous and intelligent and hyper capable.

I like Sansa despite iffy elements surrounding her and was upset at where they took her character, but I appreciate a female character working within sexist boundaries of her time and still being dangerously effective. (Moreso in the books and where they seem to be leading). Fan blowback of her vs Daenerys I feel is due to Dany being more 'masculine' (utilizes violence and force) as opposed to Sansa's 'feminine' (making alliances, politicking, etc).

No. 784

I've been thinking about feminism in the media for a while now, and I've been wondering what exactly in your opinion qualifies something as feminist?

What I mean to say is a lot of people have said that the T.V show Parks and Rec was a feminist show, People call the comic character Wonder Woman feminist, In literature the works Margaret Atwood (Handmaiden's Tale, The Edible Woman) are regarded as feminist.

but also Margaret Atwood personally does not consider herself a feminist and is open about her unwillingness to apply the feminist label to her works so does that mean Handmaiden's Tale should no longer considered feminist, Wonder-woman was created by a weird pervert with a bondage fetish and in the hands of bad writers has been fairly exploitative and a lot of people consider parks and rec to be apolitical as its main focus was not on feminism

So What exactly makes something in the media or literature feminist? Is simply having strong, confident female characters make something feminist? Or like feminism in general is there no clear cut answer, as everyone has a different opinion on how to best define it?

No. 787

>>778
I've never watched or read GoT, but I have heard it has some good female characters. I always love to see older women playing roles besides loving grandma/mother or evil crone. I hope to start reading it soon but those books are so damn long.

No. 788

>>770
well to address the OP pic: Rey. The Rise of Skywalker was fucking AWFUL but these people saying that her kissing Ben/Kylo was a “disservice to her character” / her ending up with her “abuser” are such unbearable takes I’ve been seeing circulate around the usually hellish platforms

The fact that the actor for Finn said that crass comment about “laying pipe” just really set me off. fucking reduce her to waifubait much. like god damn romance was the LEAST of TRoS’ problems considering it still managed to be a plot point advancing the overarching narrative, weak as the narrative was. can a female character have a romance or whatever without it being a coded power dynamic for violence or exploitation, even in a space fantasy with completely different societal rules and expectations? why is it assumed she’s the weaker/victimized party without agency here?

sorry to sperg I’m feeling weirdly aggressive about it all. Like… no respect for storytelling. just trying to appeal universally and watering it down from an already-liquified state. Rey got developed in the second movie and drained of any hint of depth in the third.

No. 789

>>787
It's frustrating in that while there are some great female characters there's unnecessary coomer shit going on too. The show's worse than the books for it imo (since at least in the books the sex scenes have some narrative purpose) but the books have some really skeevy age issues going on. GRRM says that he should have aged the characters up like they were in the show but I think he's just skeezy.

No. 792

>>789
that's a good point. good female characters get ruined by that shit all the time. and yeah I heard about the khaleesi wedding rape scene, when she was like, 13? I'll probably skip that when I get to it lol.

>>788
can you fill me in on what he said? I'm too lazy to google

No. 795

File: 1578195769392.png (157.58 KB, 600x780, 7b281f52b8b3ea1de00447e5624bbd…)

This anime had a really strong effect on me when I watched it as a teenager and I would say it made me a feminist after watching.

No. 798

>>784
I find feminist media to be completely of the shitty libfem brand that tries to shill porn as empowerment or le sexy strong woman meme. maybe if it passes the beschel test is a good place to start, but boy, the dearth of media by women for women that has nothing to do with appealing men at all

No. 809

What do anons think of works that attempt to portray femininity as a “strength”? I fucking hate it because femininity is a prison and most women are gender conforming — a woman must be very brave to be GNC since she can get so much shit for it. I always hate things that celebrate masculinity too since I am a gender abolitionist. Neither of these things should exist or be glorified.

No. 818

>>809
Examples of such works?

No. 826

>>795
Utena is the best, I'm not into anime at all anymore for the most part but will still happily rewatch it from time to time.

No. 828

Terry Pratchett wrote good women

No. 829

Great thread, I used to be pretty invested in this topic while in uni. I love reading works that are picking apart bad representations, especially when characters are paraded as stronk feminist figures.

A cute example is this old discursive reading of Elsa/Frozen:
https://medium.com/@directordanic/the-problem-with-false-feminism-7c0bbc7252ef

My all time favourite fictional women would have to be Katsuragi Misato and Akagi Ritsuko (Neon Genesis Evangelion). Miyazaki films are also worth mentioning for their young female leads that are portrayed as smart, curious and never obsessed with romance. Kurosawa also comes to mind (The Hidden Fortress).

My least favourite in terms of representation are Lynch movies. Most all of his women make me downright sad, as they are always in some way abused, fucked up and have little to no agency. I also hated Tarantino's latest movie.

Sorry for being all over the place, my horrible english is stopping me from partaking in a serious debate ;;

No. 830

>>829
female socialization is apologizing for bad English when your grammar is fucking perfect.

No. 831

File: 1578244038313.gif (988.16 KB, 540x432, catradora.gif)

I know it's just a kids show but I really liked Shera and the Princesses of Power. I just thought that the friend to enemies dynamic between Catra and Adora is very rare between females in media? I also love that the girls actually fight and discuss war and strategy and tech and get down and dirty and none of the men are super plot important…I wish I could have grown up as a little girl with a show like this.

No. 834

>>770
>favorite female characters in fiction
ASOIAF is a shitty example but ever since I read the series when I was 13 I felt drawn to Cersei and 90% of the online places discussing the books treat her like shit and see her walk of shame in DwD as something funny or meant to be celebrated.
I don't know how feminist this is, but I was always drawn to her relationship with her children and how (from my point of view) she cares about them but most people online seem to think she only loves them because they're hers (I mean… isn't that the point of motherhood and fatherhood? would you love and care for someone else's children as you care for your own?). She's one of my favorite fictional characters and I love how, even though GRRM is far from a great writer, he gives her some humanity to which I can relate, like her trying to be like her father but being doomed to fail in most of her endeavors due to her status as a woman, and how seeing her Jaime be treated better than her caused her resentment towards men as she grew older. Its bad for her entire character to revolve around men but its interesting how it goes beyond sexual relationships and digs deeper into how not being a man messed up a large part of her sense of self.
I guess I also found it relatable?
>how we wish women would be portrayed
Like human beings but written by women. I read an essay by Virginia Woolf on how women have been portrayed for centuries by men as whatever they wanted us to be, but women only started a couple of centuries ago to write about ourselves the way we wanted to. Most media is still dominated by men which means female characters are still predominantly linked to male ideas on what females are. I'd rather have a hundred shitty movies written by women than another "good" movie made by a man who cannot relate to the female self.

No. 836

>>834
Yeah, GRRM is not perfect but you can tell while reading the books he has actual empathy for his female characters and often points out how women are dealt a shitty card, even privileged women like Cersei. Of course most scrotes miss the point.

No. 839

>>834
Cersei is one of my favorite villain takes. Her entire character is a display of how sexism can wreck a person. She wants nothing more than to reach the heights of her father and be a serious player, given all the opportunities her brother has, but because she's a woman she's a broodmare. Her shitty husband killed the man she thought would be an okay husband.

Cersei's had a fucked up mindset from childhood due to the difference in treatment between her and her male twin (and her motivation behind the incest iirc is basically controlling Jaime and making him a part of her, a male puppet) and it only gets worse over time. She ends up a little pitiable as her alcoholism fucks up her decision making skills and she gets dumber over time.

Somewhat related, I like how Brienne is something of a foil to Cersei. Her father allows her to be more masculine, to have the power to personally defend herself via warfare and avoid being sold as a baby factory. Brienne still has to deal with terrible and awful things, and gets even more shit for trying to hit the masculine ideal. It's a lose-lose situation being a woman in Westeros.

No. 847

>>831
I would like She-ra more if it’s staff and cast weren’t all libfems

No. 861

I'm currently on a Liane Moriarty kick, but so far nothing has really been as good as Big Little Lies, her best-known work which I read after watching the television series. I will say that it's a breath of fresh air to read books that usually have at least one older female protagonist. They also center on female friendships which I find really refreshing; even when the women are instinctively judgmental toward each other because they're middle-aged suburbanites, they tend to become friends through mutual hardships, so they're pretty good reads. I love reading about older women in fiction in general. I think this first started after I read Howl's Moving Castle as a kid, which really interested me and opened my eyes to how you almost never see old women in fiction, especially childless women.

Big Little Lies is probably Moriarty's best work and the one I recommend the most, and I used to really love the HBO series before I read it, but afterward the changes they made really annoyed me. I hate that they changed it so that Madeline's marriage was unhappy and that she had an affair because apparently she was "too perfect" compared to Jane and Celeste? She was a more maternal figure in the book compared to the series where they take her characteristics of being gossipy and kind of brash to just being outright childish sometimes. It's really confusing. I will forever love the last scene, but I hate Season 2 for what it did to the characters. The female friendships that were the core of the series don't even matter anymore, and Bonnie pushed Celeste's abusive husband because she was reminded of her dad in the books, but in Season 2 of the television series, it's actually her mom who abused her. Not to mention the courtroom scene is so banal.

>>834
>>839
I love Cersei. She really was my favorite character in ASOIAF for exploring the consequences of sexism, which was probably my favorite part of the series honestly. She's like a deconstruction of the ideal of what a woman is expected to be in that she cares about her children more than anything, she is obsessed with beauty and youth because of the prophecy, etc. I feel like one of the strong points of the series was that every woman had a unique relationship with the patriarchal system they lived under, and you could really see how it affected them.

No. 873

have any of you read gone girl / sharp objects by gillian flynn? i really enjoy how she writes her female leads. it's just really refreshing. amy dunne was a great take on a female antihero that had flaws and didn't fall victim to any of the overused misogynistic tropes that usually come with that.

i also very much enjoyed the complex women of the indie game "what remains of edith finch". i strongly recommend it if you like strange stories and atmospheric games.

sorry if my grammar is weird, i avoid posting here bc my english is kinda shit /not my first language/

No. 875

>>873
samefag, forgot to add - i love how hiromu arakawa wrote all of her female characters in the FMA series. idk, just, you can tell it was written by a woman.

also! the webcomic octopus pie. it's one of the only instances where i could truly relate to multiple women in a single piece of media. it's really neat and def check it out, starts out kinda meh but develops into one of the most in-depth, realistic (but still really witty) coming of age stories.

No. 878

>>873
i will check those out, but your english is good. don't avoid posting because of it. it's very good, and people who have a much worse grasp of it still post and can be understood fairly easily.

No. 880

>>795
Utena was a good anime although most people like the titular character the most, my favorite character was Anthy.

No. 885

File: 1578287318020.gif (1.13 MB, 245x137, 0cUME3jetUFLI-32eIsLWYo7IrFe9G…)

>>873
Amy Dunne's cool girl monologue is absolutely iconic.

Also I couldn't tell you're ESL at all from that post, you seem to use more advanced vocab very naturally. Even if I could tell you shouldn't worry about it, it's not a big deal if you make mistakes sometimes.

No. 894

File: 1578303673664.jpg (38.03 KB, 625x350, qyburncersei-625x350.jpg)

>>834
>>839
Anyone else love the relationship betweeen Qyburn and Cersei, I really do think that he may be the only male in the series who truly views her as a capable ruler and actually respects her, they have a mutually beneficial relationship as well as some similar traits in my opinion. She gave him the means to conduct his experiments and validation for them instead if shunning him and being disgusted. He gives her his loyalty and thw use of his inventions to secure her reign. They are similar in the fact that at the time of their meeting they both were considered the lowest of the low. Humiliated and exiled. They kinda saved each other.

No. 895

Whether media is feminist or not seems like a moot point to argue nowadays. I'm starting to think there is no such thing as "feminist media" beyond as a sort of publishing genre. There is media created by feminists which aims to further feminism, media that presents women in a positive or progressive light, and media that women can take empowerment from irrespective of whom it is intended for. The first two of these have a flipside - Media created by anti-feminists and media that portrays women in a regressive light. The third is more of a neutral ground.

We probably all have some of these three types of media we find empowerment in. For example, I find empowerment in Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie's "Dear Ijeawele", in the character Aloy from Horizon Zero Dawn, and in the character Emma Frost from the X Men. Yours probably won't be the same as mine, but I'm curious what they are.

No. 913

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>>875
Hiromu Arakawa is truly a treasure. FMAB is probably heralded as one of the best written series of all time, and it was written by a woman. All of the female characters are really good but I love Riza in particular.

No. 923

>>894
I never watched the show but I remember parts of their relationship on the books, and if the show explored more into their relationship I hope the same thing happens on the books. I really want a Cersei comeback even if it means she ends up dying like on the show or whatever.
Though a soft part of me still wants her to fuck off with the two kids she still has to live a better life.

No. 938

>>895
>>784
For me feminist media is totally unlike anything we have these days.
I'm probably older than a lot of farmers on here but my media heroines (the younger characters who I totes aspired to be when I grow up) growing up weren't overt feminist icons, they were just competent people that happened to be humans.
Characters like Ripley from the first few Alien movies. Or Judge Anderson in 2000AD. Or Alyx from the Half-Life games.
None of them are defined by their relationship to men, neither professionally nor romantically. They're just the best at what they do.
That's what's lacking in modern depictions of female characters. It's either "ra-ra-ra, look, even a girl can do this competently" or its "ooooh the boys can't compete and they fucking hate her because of that" or "yeah, she's good, but let's shoehorn in a chemistry-less romance or a tragic story about how she can't ever have kids and that's why she worked her ass off to become good at what she does". The last one totally describes Black Widow and the witch from Marvel, unfortunately. The first two describe Captain Marvel. There's countless other modern "heroines" that fall into one or more of those three categories. It's pathetic.
Even worse, Disney wrote an entire fucking scene into the Captain Marvel movie so that she could be washing dishes onscreen. How the fuck was that movie hailed as a feminist landmark and something that young girls should aspire to and be proud of???? Still salty bout that.

No. 943

>>784
I think of feminist literature as the stuff Monique Wittig writes
>The women say, the men have kept you at a distance, they have supported you, they have put you on a pedestal, constructed with an essential difference. They say, men in their way have adored you like a goddess or else burned you at their stakes or else relegated you to their service in their back-yards.

No. 958

>>829
OP here, and thanks! It's my first thread, I was kind ofnervous about making it lol. Thanks for the article and I've never heard of Katsuragi Misato or Akago Ritsuko (I'm not really into anime) but I do love Miyazaki's heroine's. Also your English isn't horrible, it's great.

No. 982

I don't like how most "strong female characters" these days are usually strong because of a special power. Either they have superhuman strength or some kind of magical power like Rey. I can't really look up to those women because I will never have a magical power. I think there should be more female characters who are mentally and emotionally strong, like they're strong because they overcome hurdles such as mental problems, abuse, poverty etc.

No. 983

>>828
yes, just not enough of them!

No. 987

I really like Killing Eve. I never realized how much I craved female characters who feel like actual people in media before I watched it. I especially like the fact that they make a point of not using Villanelle’s looks/sex appeal to get what she wants.

No. 1003

>>987
I really like Sarah Waters's books for that reason, the women character are central and feel like human beings with like actual flaws and desires and stuff. also for lesbian romance reasons. but like for example, I was not a big fan of paying guests in that regard, yet the mc actually felt like a person that could exist.

No. 1004

I’ve really been enjoying Jodie Whittaker as the 13th Doctor so far. Yeah the shows cheesy and the writing isn’t always great, but apparently a lot of fans pick up on that a lot more now that the doctor is played by a woman whilst sucking RTD’s dick when some of his episodes were frankly shockingly bad.

I never realised just how gratifying it would be to have a woman play the role. My brothers hate her and can’t seem to give any reason for it that wasn’t also present with previous doctors, who they were fine with.

No. 1023

What did you anons think about Moana? I like how there isn't a love interest and the subplot with her grandmother is really sweet.

No. 1072

>>1023
Loved it. It was a great story for young girls about real empowerment and finding your own independence/doing what you feel is right with your own life, which is a very important message to little girls who often feel like they don’t have many choices growing up. Music is great, but there are some more cultural aspects I’m more iffy about (of course I’m not gonna get too angry bc Disney is Disney and they made an attempt this time & if some little Polynesian girl is happy bc she saw a princess who looks like her then that’s more important). I really liked Moana as a more modern Disney Princess story, definitely more so than Brave because there was absolutely no romance. I’m hesitant to say that I enjoy this current trend of giving the Disney women plot lines that are more focused on their lives & development over romance, but it’s still not perfect and I don’t think it ever will be (Brave, Frozen, Tangled, etc).

No. 1076

>>1072
>but there are some more cultural aspects I’m more iffy about
like what? it seemed pretty respectful to polynesian culture

No. 1088

>>1076
Ayrt - In all fairness, Disney tried really hard to keep a more authentic feel by having actual Polynesian people working on development and production but the people are still a mishmash of a lot of different Polynesian cultures and while the cultural stereotyping is extremely minor, it’s noticeable and just reminds me personally that it’s still a Disney film and the company has an iffy history portraying people (especially historically colonized ones) & women of color. It doesn’t take away from the film at all and the movie is more about the story of Moana and her adventures so it doesn’t come into play unless you’re a native of the cultures they borrowed from and recognize the imagery - even then, I doubt people really cared and I’m not really bothered either, it’s just something to note. It’s cool that Disney is taking steps to letting people from the cultures theyre basing films on have a say in the creative process, but the cynic in me says it’s a definite move to clean up the brand’s past and avoid future controversies over cultural & racial representation

No. 1100

>>1076
Didn’t they try to sell a Maui costume for kids? Disney has been more respectful with Moana than a lot of other movies featuring girls of color but they know “authenticity” to a culture will also bring in more dollars.

No. 1253

>>1088
You said all that and didn't give a single point of how it was disrespectful

No. 1504

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I wish there were more series like Touhou with regards to female representation. Men are insignificant background characters at most and female characters are unique and have their own adventures without it feeling weird or pandering in the slightest. Not to mention it's all made by one random ass Japanese dude so I don't have to worry about lining the pockets of a CEO who couldn't give less of a fuck about women.
If only the creator were female… (though from what I've heard his wife is involved with the games and most artists he hires are women).

No. 1509

>>1504
Male characters are insignificant or non-existent in these works because otaku men would be committing domestic terrorism if Marisa had a boyfriend. Also the female characters look like 12 year olds and the fandom is completely saturated in pornography.

No. 1515

>>1003
I love Sarah Waters. I think I’ve read 4 or 5 of her books now and the characters always feel very real. Some of the plots are really captivating, too (Fingersmith, The Little Stranger, etc.)

No. 1518

File: 1578762428652.jpeg (1.35 MB, 1136x819, toho.jpeg)

>>1509
NTA and I hope I don't sound handmaiden-ish, but I don't think there's anything wrong with appreciating the concept of a nearly all-female cast, while detaching it from the contextual reasons behind its existence in this instance.
Of course, no one wants to make waifufag pedobait to pander to a scrote fanbase. The whole essence of Touhou (most characters being female and running the stories instead of acting as support/back-up to male characters) is still nice to see, though.

No. 1519

>>1509
They’re insignificant because the creator wanted to make pretty games and later on considered adding them but decided against it because it would throw off the balance.
If he were interested in otaku pandering you’d think he wouldn’t have waited 20 years before doing so much as drawing a character with boobs.
Any fandom with scrotes in it is going to be filled with porn no matter how clean and family friendly the source material is (look at shit like MLP for instance).

No. 1533

>>1519
A lot of men like it when women have no boobs though, because pedophilia.

No. 1536

>>1519
>If he were interested in otaku pandering you’d think he wouldn’t have waited 20 years before doing so much as drawing a character with boobs.

That’s because Touhou is pedobait, anon. A big appeal of the series is that the characters look like 12 year old girls.

No. 1552

>>1536
A piece of media simply having child characters in it does not make it pedobait. What degenerate otaku scrotes decide to make of it is a different story.

No. 1563

>>1552
If it’s made by a man from Japan and nearly the whole cast is made up of 12 year old looking girls then I’m gonna be suspicious.

No. 1566

File: 1578786369595.gif (5.54 MB, 540x304, 86c475b2fed4c15d4746ab987de593…)

The Tale of Princess Kaguya is absolutely one of my favorite movies. It is a stark and moving story about Princess Kaguya struggling against who she wants to be vs. who she is expected to be. Constantly facing sexism (both ambivalent and otherwise) and doing things for the people she loves even at the expense of her own happiness. It is both difficult and empowering to watch her fight her own captivity and make the best of her circumstances.

No. 1567

>>1533
I'm not whiteknighting for men but a man liking smaller breasts does not automatically make him a pedo. That's like saying a woman is a pedo for liking clean shaven men. It's also problematic because it basically implies a small breasted woman is less of a woman.

No. 1569

>>1563
Lmao I’m Japanese-American and all the guys I knew who liked small boobs were into cartoon pedo shit when I was there as an older teen and when I was attending university. There is a huge glorification of youthfulness so I don’t think a lot of them even view it as “pedophilia” or creepy. It’s hard for me to explain.

No. 1573

>>1569
Samefagging because I’m not trying to defend pedophilia. Them not viewing it as such a big taboo is due to it being so normalized.

No. 1577

>>1569
>>1573
that sounds scary

No. 1578

>>1576
I remember when I was about 10 my mother was teaching me to turn my feet inwards when I walked to make me look cuter. I don’t know if this is considered sexualization or not but women in their twenties still walk pigeon-toed to look cute. I remember when I was living in Japan as an older teen I was made of fun for walking too much like a man (just walking normally?).

No. 1592

>>1563
Believe what you want. I’m just saying that I’m personally going to give him the benefit of the doubt, especially considering he has a wife and children of his own and never sexualised any of his characters.

No. 1594

>>1592
>he has a wife and children of his own
Really? This is supposed to be argument? All men are pretty fucking gross and they’ve had wives and kids for thousand of years. It makes no difference. Even if the creator was a woman instead I would be suspicious because so many women internalize the male gaze.

No. 1595

>>1592
>especially considering he has a wife and children of his own
hahah oh wow

No. 1616

>>1592
Honestly don't bother, these spergs will hate anything anime because it's always about pedophilia and rape to them no matter how innocent it is, even if it was created by a woman. Hating Touhou for its creepy male fandom is like saying My Little Pony is a pedobait fetish show simply because of bronies. Just ignore them.

No. 1617

File: 1578823291907.jpg (29.57 KB, 553x554, 23434.jpg)

>>1592
>especially considering he has a wife and children of his own

No. 1633

>>1566
I've never heard of princess kaguya, but that animation is beautiful!

No. 1638

>>1566
>and doing things for the people she loves even at the expense of her own happiness

that's pretty…lame and bland. that's about every other no-personality female character in every fiction ever that isn't "da ebil femmememe fatale".

No. 1646

>>1594
So what you're saying is that you wouldn't be satisfied either way kek

No. 1648

>>1646
NTA but "especially considering he has a wife and children of his own" is a stupid fucking thing to say. And Touhou does feel like pedobait, Japanese culture is allergic to old people.

No. 1650

Does anyone else get annoyed when people hail movies like 'Alien' (1979) as "feminist"? It did not have anything to talk about regarding the female experience or women's liberation. It just has a female main character doing stuff. Same reason I get annoyed with people saying Ghibli movies or the new Star Wars movies are feminist. Actually, Hayao Miyazaki is kind of a dick because I remember reading about how his wife had to give up her promising career to raise their sons (he was an absent father) and he's out there calling himself a "feminist" because he has female protagonists.

No. 1655

>>1650
Alien is a metaphor for rape and forced pregnancy. There might not be some epic speech about female experience but the whole film is literally about it.

No. 1660

>>1650
What makes a film "feminist" is really debatable and to me, most "feminist" films are not feminist at all because I lean very far towards the radical end and if it isn't an independent film then there's no way it isn't going to be full of neoliberal garbage or questionable production practises. I was pissed off when people put something like 'Hustlers (2019)' into the same "feminist" category as a film like 'Period. End Of Sentence.'

No. 1662

>>1650
I thought Mad Max: Fury Road was pretty decent about forced impregnation but then I found out they had Eve Ensler as a consultant lmao. To a lot of second wavers she was seen as groundbreaking since she made a whole play about vaginas (The Vagina Monologues) but now she's saying shit like this: "The Vagina Monologues never intended to be a play about what it means to be a woman. It is and always has been a play about what it means to have a vagina. In the play, I never defined a woman as a person with a vagina."

Fuck all the big-name creatives living in their Ivory Towers.

No. 1664

>>1638
Yeah, it's what's expected of women in real life too.

No. 1665

>>1655
Would have worked better if the sequel wasn't about murdering a Big Bad Queen and calling her a "bitch".

No. 1666

File: 1578911910639.jpg (37.64 KB, 554x554, 0070.jpg)

Have any anons watched the Love Witch? How was it? It was labelled as a feminist movie by some people but others said it was sex positive and I am not a fan of that.

No. 1667

>>1665
Aliens is directed and written by a different guy…

No. 1668

>>1665
>>1667
Also Aliens is about toxic masculinity

No. 1669

>>1667
NTA but Ridley Scott sucks too. Not James Cameron levels of awful but still.

No. 1672

>>1669
Also samefagging here but can I ask what exactly “toxic masculinity” is supposed to mean? Sounds redundant because gender itself is toxic so there is no such thing as “healthy masculinity”. Masculinity can only exist as a way to dominate femininity to socialise the sexes into a hierarchy so different cultures may have different ideas about gender but masculinity is always superior to femininity

No. 1673

>>1666
I love it, especially the designs and outfits

No. 1683

File: 1578936739270.jpg (18.29 KB, 480x240, Sigourney-Weaver-La-secuela-de…)

>>1650
I think "Alien" is more feminist than any other movie recently released, and that is saying something.
People label a movie as "feminist" not because the plot is about the feminist movement or the issues women face everyday, but because it has strong, not-stereotyped female characters. Ripley isn't sexualized to hell and back, something that seems like a miracle even nowadays.
I think they can be regarded as feminist, since these types of movies show girls that they can be whatever they want, aside from supermodels or flawless ageless girls.

Idk about Miyazaki,though. He portrays little girls on his movies, and I don't really see that as feminist. Kids in media aren't that stereotyped, since they aren't part of society yet and they are still innocent (read: they still are being educated about gender roles), so they usually are portrayed in a more gender-neutral way. That's why I wouldn't say his movies are feminist.
Plus, I didn't know he did that to his wife. And to think that he's regarded as a god between weeaboos. Gross… I feel bad for his wife.

No. 1705

>>1683
Behind every great man there is a woman supporting him emotionally, cooking his meals, cleaning his clothes, raising his children and giving up her own aspirations in life so she can’t achieve “greatness” herself. And this is why history seems so male-dominated.

No. 1714

File: 1578950951541.png (327.94 KB, 2880x1440, Screenshot_20200113-162906.png)

>>1705
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Excerpt is from Sofia Tolstoy.

No. 1814

File: 1578978462102.jpg (62.58 KB, 910x475, moana-camakau.jpg)

>>1253
Not that anon, just jumping in here.
Disney did not get permission to use Moana's boat/camakau design from Fijian elders nor give any compensation to any Fijian organizations. Legally/copyright-wise they don't have to, but morally/culturally it would've been nice.
>>1076
Though it is hard to pinpoint many specific things since they claim Moana is a mishmash of Polynesian cultures. I can only speak for Hawaiian culture and the movie seemed mostly Samoan/Fijian. The clothing, canoe, songs (like in We Know the Way), their style of dance was all very Samoan.

No. 1869

>>1672
>can I ask what exactly “toxic masculinity” is supposed to mean
Toxic Masculinity just means doing what are considered masculine activities/behaviours to a self/socially destructive degree. For example, weight-lifting is considered a masculine activity. Weight-lifting its-self is fine. but weight-lifting too much weight so that you can appear tough and that it permanently damages your muscles is usually toxic. Some people consider stoicism to be masculine. Stoicism can be healthy and useful in the proper context. Stoicism to the point that you can't recognize or process your own emotions is toxic. Women can be guilty of toxic masculinity e.g women in male dominated fields often emulate toxic masculine behaviour

No. 1884

>>1869
Then why isn't there something like toxic femininity where women care about their appearance so much the develop and eating disorder or waste all their money on superficial beauty products?

No. 1895

>>1884
Generally when people talk about "toxic masculinity", the female counterpoint is "internalized misogyny". That is, "toxic masculinity" is toxic because it harms not just the toxic masculine person, but others. While "internalized misogyny" usually the primary victim is the woman herself.

No. 1897

>>1650
>>1662
I remember an article that Anita Sarkeesian wrote a couple years ago about the character Furiosa and other general "strong stoic women" characters like Ripley and Sarah connor and why she believes that they weren't truly feminist characters, her main argument was that the women in those roles that if played by a male actor would be almost the exact same and how the 'strong woman' trope celebrates traditionally masculine qualities while shunning femininity

No. 1931

>>1895
Not the anon you’re responding to, but women use femininity to harm each other all the time and they are called “handmaidens”. Gender is an inherently bad thing so I think calling it something like “toxic masculinity” implies there is a non-toxic form — which obviously does not exist. Internalized misogyny is not the same thing as femininity itself but hatred of females expressed by females towards themselves.

No. 1936

>>1683
Tbf to Miyazaki, he does hate otaku and has spoken against men who sexualize his characters, but he's also an old Japanese guy so I'm not surprised he's not a radical feminist ally.

No. 1941

>>1931
I didn't say I believed in these terms, was just explaining what they meant

No. 1943

>>1936
He does call himself a "feminist" but expects his wife to look after the children full time or she would be a "bad mother". He pursued his own animation career at the expense of hers and he was very absent from his family's life. His sons barely had a relationship with him growing up because he was too busy making movies which was his passion. I mean, you could chalk this up to cultural differences but how is he a "feminist" if he treats Japanese women like most Japanese men already do? Does he just think he's a feminist because he has female main characters? I suppose the moral of the story is to never trust any man who calls himself a "feminist".

Also Miyazaki claims to be "anti-war" but then he makes a movie glorifying Jiro Horikoshi who developed war planes that ended up killing thousands of Korean people. He even won an Order of the Rising Sun medal because of his contributions to Imperial Japan's war effort. Guess he's only anti-war in the context that Japan shouldn't be attacked and is the true victim of WWII lmao (this is a thing a lot of Japanese like to believe in, including my own father + grandparents).

No. 1945

>>1943
This reminds of that rabid twitter user Arthur Chu. He was featured in the documentary 'Who is Arthur Chu?'. He is obsessively tweeting every single day for hours on end and ignores the existence of his disabled wife.

>A vanity project whose subject is so utterly repulsive that it functions better as an accidental hit piece. 93 minutes of Arthur, mouth breathing, hunched over his phone, sub-tweeting egg avatars while his wife is constantly on the verge of a mental breakdown.

>Arthur spends much of the documentary at speaking engagements where he lectures on the importance of listening to women to understand different perspectives, yet whenever his wife wants to talk about anything other Twitter, he interrupts and changes the subject.
>An awkward dinner conversation between Arthur and his father is one of the most telling scenes of the documentary. His father suggests that Arthur should spend at least one day a week actually speaking to his wife, instead of staring at his phone screen. You can actually see Arthur's brain begin to shut down at this suggestion and responds only in murmurs.
>My soul actually left my body during the infamous 'diner scene', a section whose reputation actually underplays how awkward it is. It features Arthur who, as usual, is staring at Twitter, and his wife trying her hardest to hold back her tears. In the middle of pouring her heart out to Arthur, he interrupts so he can tell her about a new post he made. Needless to say, the "They are now separated" line during the epilogue was a welcome ending.

No. 1946

>>1943
>Also Miyazaki claims to be "anti-war" but then he makes a movie glorifying Jiro Horikoshi who developed war planes that ended up killing thousands of Korean people. He even won an Order of the Rising Sun medal because of his contributions to Imperial Japan's war effort. Guess he's only anti-war in the context that Japan shouldn't be attacked and is the true victim of WWII lmao (this is a thing a lot of Japanese like to believe in, including my own father + grandparents).

the movie isn't glorifying Jiro Horikoshi. This movie is a tragedy, The story is about dreams vs reality, priorities vs desires, meeting one demand over another; Jiro only wanted to create planes, but along side it his creations would have to be used for war, a conflict highlighted in the beginning of the movie

No. 1948

>>1672
Toxic masculinity” is a pop psychology term mostly used by libfems which is why it doesn’t make sense. Other shitty libfem terms include: slutshaming, whorephobia, femmephobia, TERF, SWERF, weaponized femininity, gender identity, queer

No. 1949

>>1946
NTA but still thought it was fucking weird that he made a movie about it or that it humanized him. Like, if you actually read the history then you’d know Horikoshi was a massive racist but the movie makes him look like a nice guy.

No. 1952

>>1949
I think the movie made a reference to Korean slave labor building the planes but they gloss over it?

No. 1953

>>1949
Honestly, that movie was kinda weird.
>The Wind Rises continues this blame evasion throughout, evincing an ideal of pacifism while positioning Japan as the target of Chinese and American assault. We see Japanese planes downed by a Chinese foe in a mid-film reverie — a shockingly insensitive image given that Japan was invading China during this time, not the other way around. Later, an American bomber floats above a graveyard of burned-out aircraft over the defeated Japanese empire. In contrast, no Japanese pilot is ever seen shooting at an enemy, even though Jiro’s most famous invention, the Zero plane, was designed and used solely for military purposes. The consequences of his work — that is, corpses — are likewise absent. In the film, Jiro never expresses sympathy for the people his people killed. His grief is strictly reserved for the deaths of his planes.

https://www.villagevoice.com/2013/12/11/the-trouble-with-the-wind-rises/

No. 1955

>>1952
I don’t know about that but I do know the real life Horikoshi was excited his planes murdering civilians in China and shared the news with his family. They don’t have him react to the people dying in the movies though.

No. 1958

>>1897
I don’t care for Anita but a lot of women have said the same thing. They think female characters shouldn’t just be female versions of male characters but characters who can use “feminine qualities” to solve problems like the opposite of what this anon wants to see >>809.

Not really sure how to feel about this tbh.

No. 1964

>>1943
>Guess he's only anti-war in the context that Japan shouldn't be attacked and is the true victim of WWII lmao (this is a thing a lot of Japanese like to believe in, including my own father + grandparents).
yikes that is so horribly fucking ridiculous, how do you stand your father and grandparents?

>>1955
>>1943
>>1949
>>1953
As someone who's liked a couple of his films this is really disappointing to hear. I didn't know this guy was such trash. Honestly I already have a hard time comfortably consuming anything japanese because of the false beliefs and ideals most people (including content creators) tend to have there.

No. 1969

>>1943
AYRT I literally said he isn't a feminist ally, just that he doesn't sexualize his characters or tolerate those who do, and I can understand why women respond to his movies. Men can call themselves feminists if they want, and I can say I'm a witch, but it doesn't make it true.

No. 1985

Oh, I love this thread so much!

>>795
>>880
Anthy is my fave character as well. She is incredible and represents the kind of female representation that I want to see in media. She’s a flawed and fucked up person, but easy to empathize with and so fascinating to watch grow. Personally I have zero interest in ‘empowering’ female characters like Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman or any other flavor of the month kIcKaSs WoMaN. I like interesting and nuanced characters, I literally never felt empowered by fictional beauties who can do no wrong and are good fighters. I understand why other women/girls might love that sort of characters though.
I really appreciate Utena as well, even though I do not relate to her as much. She is extremely believable as a young teen – smart, but still very naïve about people and world around her. Her arc has a great portrayal of child grooming. It’s even worse to watch the second time, when you know exactly what is going on. Heartbreaking.
All of the Utena characters are extremely well-written tbh. You will love and relate to at least one.

>>885
I love Gillian Flynn novels, especially Dark Places (though the protagonist of Sharp Objects was the most relatable to me). If anyone knows similar books or movies, I would love recs.
Gone Girl blew my mind the first time I read it and I'm proud to own a paper copy (even though I keep most of my books on my ebook reader).

No. 1995

>>1969
“Feminist” is such a nebulous term these days. I feel like it means everything and nothing at the same time.

No. 2077

Favorite female characters would be - Sansa and Brienne (GOT) I've liked Sansa since the first season and everytime someone have asked me who was my fave they acted like it wasn't even a possibility to have Sansa as a favorite lmao this unpopular opinion changed with the last seasons though.
Both characters are great in how they view themselves and their feminity, how people perceive them and how they both evolve. Just great stuff.
- Lyra from His dark materials. My favorite books, perfect main character. The best example of an unruly and "unfeminine" character imo. Also love that her ability to lie perfectly is shown as an asset.
- Alita. I've only seen the movie and I know we are only at the very beginning of her story but I love her type of character. I wasn't expecting her to love to fight that much that scene where she is still fighting and enjoying it when she's only like a head and an arm ?? Amazing I was really scared that she was going to be sexualised but there was almost nothing.
- Clarke from the 100. I'm at season 5 and I don't understand how I've never heard of her before. Smart, medic and leader, good at politics and in a fight, lesbian (or bi ?) and it's never hidden or questioned. She isn't perfect and that has consequences too. Women in general are compelling in the show imo except in those awful first episodes.

Now, small rant on star wars ROTS I can't believe that for once a very popular IP with a female character as the hero could have completely avoided romance but they still did it anyway. The worst part is that it doesn't add anything since Kylo dies immediately after they kiss. Like at this point just don't do it. It felt so awkward to watch. If one of them kissed the other on the forehead or something to show acceptance, redemption then I would have actually liked it but I never believed for one second that Rey was in love.

No. 2082

>>1964
I don't care that much about his opinion since he was pretty absent from my life and even though we lived in the US, he worked for a Japanese international company so it had very long work hours. I feel like I was raised solely by my mother (who was a housewife) while my father was just kinda there in the background. I wouldn't be surprised if my parents were cheating on each other since infidelity isn't such a big taboo in Japanese culture, they slept in separate beds, had a 12 year age gap, and just kind of tolerated each other's existence (they didn't fight but there wasn't any affection). Racist and conservative grandparents are pretty common regardless of nationality but a somewhat popular belief among Japanese people in general but especially the older generation is that Japan was just as much a victim, or the "true victim" of WWII because it was attacked with nuclear bombs (they just ignore the whole colonizing Asia part or pretend that Japan did it for altruistic reasons like "freeing Asia from Western colonialism").

I can see how Miyazaki would think a lot of these same things. In Japanese media, there is a surprising lack of Korean characters despite Koreans being the largest minority population (there used to be close to a million of them but they have a high assimilation rate to avoid discrimination) and anti-Korean sentiment is very common (there is a general anti-Asian sentiment because some Japanese don't see themselves as "Asian" or they think they are better than the rest of Asia which I think is comparable to how Britain sees continental Europe). Some of my Japanese friends say anti-Korean things like "Why are Koreans always so angry" or "Why are Koreans so ugly" and they would try to be polite to Korean people they met but sometimes they just couldn't help but "slip out" some of those anti-Korean biases towards their own Korean friends. I completely understand why something like 'The Wind Rises' was quite controversial in South Korea.

No. 2085

>>2077
I think Clarke is bi since she's had both male and female love interests. Most women in fiction are written to be bi rather than lesbian since the idea of a woman not having any possible interest in men is too threatening. It's why the old L Word made one of the girls bisexual so they could have straight men participating in the sex scenes sometimes. The new L Word is worse because we're in the shitqueer era.

No. 2086

>>2077
Clarke sleeps with both sexes, pretty sure she is bi. She's straight in the books and ends up with Bellamy but considering how much this show has changed stuff from the original series, I would not be surprised if the two were not endgame. Although I do think it's cute that their actors are married in real life.

No. 2099

>>1666
It looks very good but is basically porny and the "jokes" fall completely flat. If you're a film buff and have seen all the movies it parodies you might appreciate it.

I saw someone mention the "Not All Men" reboot Twilight zone episode somewhere on lolcow in the last day, and I can't find the post to reply so I'm putting it here.
Just watched it and it's a pretty good watch in terms of being the most blatant commentary on male aggression (and how it relates to women/it is a choice) I've seen.
The original Twilight zone was a lot more gentle and artistic than this series, but it's good to see male critical media once in a while. (Sorry if this is offtopic, just wanted to recommend it)

No. 2100

>>1943
I don't believe men can ever be feminists so "male feminist" is an oxymoron to me.

No. 2240

File: 1579151939607.jpg (177.58 KB, 960x1440, p16621396_b_v8_aa.jpg)

What are your thoughts on the show "Fleabag"?

the show highlights (although in a very casual manner) to instances where there is sexism, misogyny and unsolicited sexual advances faced by women and is pretty much an everyday reality for us. But what i really wanna see is how you all feel about the character "fleabag"(portrayed by Phoebe Waller-Bridge), her self-proclamation as a 'bad feminist' and her other shortcomings which are all too human. A difficulty of feminist representations is that it can sometimes get a little idealistic, trying to offer me great role models of women that “can do it all”. And I love it… but it’s also very high-pressure. Sometimes I don’t want to be inspired to be amazing, I want to feel allowed to be mediocre and petty. So the main character being a mess up and a loser was kinda empowering

No. 2251

>>1897
>>1958
I can understand wanting to portray the more typical female experience as cool/heroic but obviously it's a requirement of the genre to have characters acting "masculine" because if they weren't the sort of people who can endure and use extreme violence to overcome the narrative conflict it wouldn't be much of an action story. Saying characters like, say, every one Michelle Rodriguez has ever played, are just "male characters in womens bodies" is retarded since of course being a cop or soldier or career criminal involves being aggressive and stoic and capable at physical fighting or they'd be in the wrong job.

No. 2278

>>1995
The whole "if you think women are equal to men you're a feminist" thing really fucked us over because now we have a bunch of handmaidens and scrotes telling us how they the "real" feminists because they "support all women" (i.e. they financially support troons and camgirls)

No. 2304

>>2251
Femininity is about being a submissive and wilting flower so of course having a female action hero who is 100% feminine is impossible. A female character is not realistically going to act exactly like a man because socializaiton and biosex create differences but people who praise characters for being masculine/feminine are stupid since gender itself is the shackles of the patriarchy.

No. 2305

>>1665
So sick of "feminist" characters using misogynist slurs like "bitch" or calling men "ladies" as an insult. You just know that shit was written by a man.

No. 2311

I hate how female friendships are basically non-existent in media. We have the Shawshank Redemption, LotR and a bunch of other movies where male friendship are central to the story but no female friendships. When two women have a good relationship in a movie they are usually mother/daughter or sisters.

No. 2315

>>2082
>They say things like "Why are Koreans so ugly"
Kek how ironic since koreans are objectively better looking. Sounds like some jealousy mixed in there.

However the part about koreans and other asians being absent from their media seems true for most east asian countries. You rarely see other asians in korean or chinese entertainment, and they all share the same mentality that they're "better" than the others. Basically a superiority complex.

>I completely understand why something like 'The Wind Rises' was quite controversial in South Korea.

Yeah definitely

No. 2327

>>2311
This, so much this. You could have any diluted Hollywood "strong wommyn" character celebrated as a feminist icon but even she NEVER interacts normally with other female characters, if anything she acts Totally Not Like Other Girls and exists only to ~stop sexism~ by beating men up and spewing ~empowering~ slogans. Or if she's non-hostile towards other female characters, she has a lesbian relationship with the most attractive one that's 100% written by a pornsick man. I can't think of a single one that isn't a female-centric romcom that actually has two women having a friendship and benefiting from that.

No. 2329

>>2327
Kek, Legend of Korra had two female characters end up together but they barely had a friendship before that and Asami didn't even have a personality. The creators were also sexist pieces of shit but couldn't stop praising themselves for being stunning and brave male feminists.

No. 2330

File: 1579214663795.jpg (91.31 KB, 700x259, e0777442e663ba2d7636b637b5e84f…)

>>2311
That type of media exists, but it's aimed at young girls. Things like Winx, W.I.T.C.H., Monster High, etc. revolve around female friendship but don't appeal to mature women. I totally agree with you and I wish there were a Lord of the Rings thing but with females. I would read it (or watch the movie).

Btw, I've just realized why do I despise so much Blockbusters like Avatar or LotR. It's because they are so male centric that I can't get to watch those movies without yawning at least fifty times.

I recommend watching Ocean's Eight. The characters are ALL women, the movies is funny and there is no "lesbian bait" that I recall?
Also, Bride Wars. It's cheesy and bad, and stereotyped, but if you're bored give it a try. I liked the end lol.

And The Sisterhood of Travelling Pants!!!!! OMG I really like that movie watch it please!!! It's silly but so wholesome!!

No. 2350

File: 1579232337208.jpg (168.25 KB, 400x240, Style Savvy 1.JPG)

What do anons think about the Girls Mode / Style Savvy / Style Boutique series and it's female representation?
Majority of the characters are female and are owners of their businesses and big names in the fashion industry. I like the fact there's tons of variety of clothing, not everything is a stereotypical girly look. Another thing, 98% characters are not focused on men. Some men are involved and do come into shops, but they're not always boyfriends, sometimes it's the brother of the girl or it's implied he's a friend. Also I do like the fact there are women from varying careers coming into shops.

No. 2362

>>2350
>its female representation
Unoriginal. Girls becoming owners of boutiques or beauty brands is a very common trope in media. Women can be something more than models or designers. Idk, the game is very shoujo-like, I don't think it defies anything. Male representation in the game is non-existent because: 1. Boys don't care about fashion. 2. The game is aimed at little (Japanese) girls.

No. 2372

>>2350
In Japan gender roles are strict so just showing a bunch of girls finding "empowerment" in doing feminine things is just more gender enforcement. Their idea of a "tomboy" is still very girly when compared to America.

No. 2382

File: 1579276617290.png (1.03 MB, 983x1114, D17F583A-5107-4B3D-A3DB-22251F…)

I loved how Zelda was portrayed in BotW (also Urbosa was badass, I just wish the Gerudos hadn’t all been so focused on men). Princess Zelda since OoT has really helped get shit done though and I find her a good role model for young girls.

No. 2408

File: 1579300811032.jpg (154.82 KB, 615x878, Eizoken_ni_wa_Te_o_Dasu_na-cov…)

The Keep Your Hands Off Eizouken! anime looks promising. The character design is nice and the voices are too. Its about 3 girls who want to make an anime togheter.

No. 2473

>>2408
Tysm for sharing this anon! It’s legitimately a dream of mine to start a female animation studio, and to just be able to create worlds with other women. Made me so emotional watching this, hopefully there’s a manga since I can’t get enough of this lmaoo. Why wait when I can start my dream now?

No. 2481

>>2473
I was reading it here!
https://mangawindow.net/series/73423 hopefully the link works! May your dreams come true anon, and maybe one day we can cross paths!

No. 2661

>>2330
The first two or three sagas of Witch had surprisingly good character and story writing. I especially liked the first and second one. You have to suffer through inconsistent art since Disney was constantely changing artists (probably to save money kek)

No. 2757

Why do all horror movies have female protagonists? I don't really understand the Final Girl trope. It's difficult to find female protagonists unless the movie is a chickflick or something. So why do horror movies not feature male as protagonists compared to other genres?

No. 2769

>>2757
Honestly fuck knows, I used to think because people revel in and enjoy seeing a woman in distress as opposed to a man, but why do they then outlive the males who often have gruesome deaths?

No. 2791

>>2757
>>2769
I read something about how men feel uncomfortable identifying with a man in fear/pain/distress and therefore prefer women horror protagonists.

No. 2799

>>2791
Yeah men prefer it when the woman is put into distress instead. In fact, some directors like Brian de Palma don’t see the point of having female characters unless they’re suffering. There was this French movie called Martyrs which is just women being tortured over and over again and it’s supposed to be ~artsy~ because women in pain is always considered so deep and profound by men. Maybe because it is arousing to them, like how they have an obsession with rape scenes.

No. 2810

>>2799
ew. men who are into horror, metal, anything like that, are the biggest misogynists btw.

No. 2811

>>2757
At least, according to Joe Bob Briggs, a female in that situation gives a vulnerability that a male won't. it's a sexist statement sure, but yeah, could be as simple an explanation as that.

No. 2812

>>2769
Men in horror often get killed quickly while women in horror tend to get dragged out torture scenes.

No. 2819

>>2812
A lot of gratuitous rape too. I rewatched Evil Dead and remembered why I hated it so much.

No. 2894

>>2811
The idea was probably first floated by Hitchcock, later picked up on by Dario Argento, but the concept of the 'final girl' along with her tropes was codified by Carol Clover in her book Men, Women and Chainsaws back in the 1990's. It's a great read.

No. 2933

has anyone seen Atomic Blonde? people keep shilling it to me as some feminist/lesbian 007 movie but it screams "straight male lesbian porn fantasy" to me from the very few clips I've seen.

No. 2942

>>2933
Looks to me like another shallow 80s nostalgia trip. I heard it had some lesbian sex scene then a lesbian being brutally murdered. Pretty common for movies to use lesbians for fanservice then kill them off.

No. 2944

>>2933
It was ok as a spy action movie but it really has nothing to do with lesbianism other than the heroine meets a female agent in one scene, seduces her in their next and then she gets graphically murdered and both might be straight and just playing each other anyway. I was talking with my friend in the theater when it came out about how it's basically just the "sweeps week lesbian kiss" but since it was 2017 we have to pretend it's progressive and never been done before. D.E.B.S. is a comedy spy film entirely about a lesbian relationship, directed by a woman, with a happy ending and that came out in fucking 2004.

No. 2999

>>2942
>>2944
thanks. I basically grew up on having to watch stupid man action movies with obligatory girl on girl fanservice (thanks Dad) to see that it was probably much of the same but with some dumbass libfem twist.

No. 3032

>>2933
my friend whose really into MMA and Krav Maga said she liked it because its perhaps the only film that presented realistic but still entertaining fight scenes between a man and a woman and that was the only praise she had for it, the fight scenes

No. 3040

File: 1579870033106.gif (1.6 MB, 498x265, 7tMO09E.gif)

>>2330
I can't watch anything that doesn't have at least an even number of female to male characters. Men just don't interest me and I don't relate to them or the stories they like to tell.
I'm a huge Grace & Frankie fan; the friendship between two older women makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
>>2810
So true. Male horror fans are always weirdos and you can tell it's erotic for them too.

No. 3042

>>2942
>I heard it had some lesbian sex scene then a lesbian being brutally murdered
Disgusting. I boycott shit movies like that.

No. 3169

>>3032
can a woman punched in the face like that recover so easily? I don't know anything about fighting.

No. 3253

Speaking of Atomic Blonde, is anyone interested in seeing the Rhythm Section? I think it looks kinda cool, but the plot is her avenging her family which seems like the plot of every female led action movie.

No. 3256

>>3253
I mean avenging one's dead family is the plot of every action film though

No. 3257

>>3256
Yeah that's fair. Or rescuing a kidnapped loved one (Taken)

No. 3553

File: 1580481804851.jpg (41.76 KB, 739x415, images.jpg)

Thoughts on the Devil wears Prada ?

a lot of libfems I know praise the film and especially the character of Miranda Priestly and I frequently see both the film/character on a number of top 10 feminist films or top 10 feminist Icons of film, I personally don't understand how people can defend miranda, she's an abuisve boss who is needlessly cruel to her employes, I don't think she should ever be considered a feminist icon. Not with the way she treats her workers and shames people for not being super skinny. she creates a work environment that is terrible for women: unpredictable hours, no flexibility for life events, no support for mental health (especially obvious eating disorders), and an expectation that people give up hope for a family life (try telling Miranda that you need a few months paid parental leave). She perpetuates the same type of culture that has made her own personal life miserable. I feel for her, but Miranda does nothing to improve the lives of younger career women. We need to stop making ""charisma"" the top priority in selecting our ideological heroes. also I see a lot of people shitting on her friends and boyfriend as well for holding her back, but they complain not (only) because they dont get to see her but instead because they see Andy working herself to the bone and changing everything about herself just to appease her self-centered abusive boss

No. 3556

>>3553
there's nothing feminist about it. she's a horrible boss and a terrible person. no different from a male. that a female occupies an abusive and oppressive position that would otherwise typically be held by a man, doesn't make it feminist. the movie also just generally sucks. imagine championing madames and claiming a film about them is top tier feminism.

No. 3558

>>3553
>>3556
Thank you! I felt like I'm the only woman in the world who hates her and she's the reason why I don't want like watching this movie. but what annoys me is most seeing women, especially young women, aspire to be like Miranda, that they find that cruelty and rudeness cool. young women should be thought that they have no obligation to be kind/self-sacrificing to people especially men. but stuff like throwing your coat at someone is rude, whether that person is an assistant or not. Saying "don't bore me with your questions" when an employee asks a legitimate question to actually be more efficient in their job is rude AND stupid. She's the epitome of the bourgeoise : "I'm better than you because my clothes are designer clothes, but don't expect me to treat people with respect and to behave with class." She's arrogant, unnecessarily mean, she's cut from reality and real people, she never motivates her employees and she's getting off on terrorizing people. She's the opposite of a good leader, and the fact that so many women admire her is worrying.

No. 3560

>>3553
I think it's the right time to say i hate meryl streep. Imagine celebrating and protecting rapists and feeling sorry for guys because thinking the term "toxic masculinity" hurts them, and still being seen as some kinda wholesome female role model for girls.

No. 3565

>>3553
It's the same libfem "equality good, end of story" logic as MORE clap FEMALE clap DRONE clap PILOTS. She's a horrible boss who treats her employees like trash who's company enforces negative female stereotypes and socialization but it's a woman with a career like a man who is even an asshole like a man so she's le epic Boss Bitch™ yas queen.

Reminds me of the similar character Kat Grant from the Supergirl show where they don't even portray her as an antagonistic force for the protagonist to come to terms with like in TDWP, she's just the libfem/male feminist (who turned out to be a sexual harasser of course) writers mouth-piece, despite still being extremely selfish and emotionally abusive to everyone she has power over in her life, but everyone in-universe still loves and looks up to her somehow.

No. 3569

>>3553
It’s about the fashion industry so no way it was ever gonna be feminist. Streep is a good actor and Priestly was interesting but just because she’s an interesting female character it doesn’t automatically make her “feminist”. People need to stop calling everything feminist.

No. 3582

>>3553
I like this movie because it's dumb and I think Anne Hathaway is very pretty, but I think anyone who thinks the message of the movie is ""Be more like Miranda" fell asleep for the last act. At the same time, what's more libfem than a woman crushing others to succeed? It reminds me of libfems who loved tv!Cersei because she was an asshole and drank wine all the time. It's like if they call those characters feminists then it's an excuse to be an asshole themselves instead of actually doing feminist work.

No. 3654

File: 1580738707283.jpg (911.36 KB, 2560x1920, Fry-Eighth-Grade.jpg)

I really enjoyed Eighth Grade. I find it funny though how a man directed and wrote all this.

It doesn't exactly aim for feminist themes/undertones, but how Kayla was portrayed and the rest of the girls is pretty realistic and relevant especially in this day and age.

I just don't see how well this would work if the leading character was male. Young girls are more likely to face social insecurity in their appearance or status, peer pressure, etc. and how the main character tried to deal with all that was pretty uplifting and fucking relatable.

No. 3656

>>3654
I love her relationship with her father and the awkward chicken tendies nerd

No. 3658

>>3654
the movie was incredibly boring but bo burnham seems decent. very dull, but pretty realistic. good message overall. i expected more laughs or literally any comedic undertones and so it was disappointing in that sense, but it was a nice overall theme. main complaint is the pacing. and bo has been with a woman 12 yrs his senior for like, 6 years now, even though he's very desired by young women, so that's nice to see.



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