[ Rules ] [ ot / g / m ] [ pt / snow / w ] [ meta ] [ Server Status ]

/2X/ - (XX)

gender critical and female politics
Name
Email
Subject
Comment
File(20 MB max)
Video
Password
 (For post deletion)
The site maintenance is completed but lingering issues are expected, please report any bugs here

File: 1578244301547.png (3.1 MB, 1017x7678, Capture _2019-08-21-22-47-25~2…)

No. 832

Feminism catch-all thread. Share radical theory, resources, ideas, etc.

No. 854

Oh hey it’s the list I posted! I can’t believe I forgot to add ‘Pornland’ by Gail Dines in the Pornography section. There is also ‘The Gendered Brain: The New Neuroscience that Shatters the Myth of the Female Brain’ by Gina Rippon that came out last year for Science/Gender. I might also make a list of fiction for radical feminists.

No. 866

File: 1578275813591.jpg (39.39 KB, 302x475, 818118._SY475_.jpg)

It isn't really a radfem work, but "In the miso soup" is about a Japanese man guiding an American tourist through a sex work city. it never states any radical beliefs, but the book describes how much of of a loser the American tourist is for trying to get a prostitute and it shows prostitution in a more realistic and depressing way than most books. The books is one of the rare few "it's not politics just facts' books

No. 1035

>>854
please do! i'd love that.

No. 1077

I don't know if this goes here sorry.

How do you argue with people who believe the sexual objetification females experience is empowerment?

They always retort to "I sexualize myself because I want to" or "If a girl wants to feel sexy, she should have the right to do so" etc. but I don't buy it. Females are built by society and beauty culture to feel like they won't be enough until they're pretty and desirable. Who the fuck would want to be an object?? Their arguments don't make sense, but at the same time I don't know what to say apart from "Are you sure that's what you really want? Or is something the patriarchy has made you think you want?" and that surely won't convince them at all…

Idk, what do you think?

No. 1078

File: 1578498092714.jpg (439.51 KB, 1024x768, peacockandpeahen.jpg)

>>1077
Ask them why they think it makes them powerful and why men aren't doing it then.

In fact if we look at other species, men are the ones who should make the most effort to attract mates.

No. 1086

>>1077
People who think female objectification is essential to female agency are hard to reason with, been struggling with this too.

Maybe find some articles or statistics to share about the sex industry's negative impacts so they won't try to gaslight you about ~redfems being against women's agency~

No. 1092

>>1078

That's right, I think they would try to dodge the question babbling about gay males doing makeup but that could be easily rebatable.

>>1086
I guess you're right, but there are so many naive girls that think showing off your lingerie or taking provocative photos for social media is completely normal that I kinda want to educate them and help them see the truth. It's not that I'm doubting myself or the movement, but I think it's hard to reach people that had never questioned the social rules patriarchy has imposed on us. It's just like matrix, there's people who don't want to know the truth and there's others who just need a bit of help to reach it.
Anyways, thank you for you answers.

No. 1127

>>1077
>Ask her why women seem to gain "empowerment" from sexualising themselves while men never have to.

>Ask her why men are judged on their personalities while a woman's worth is based on her looks.

>Ask her how looking sexy is supposed to help women as a class when they are constantly sexualised and how there are hundreds of millions of women as sex slaves today.

>Ask her why she is pro-capitalist since nobody benefits off of beauty products and fashion more than the corporations killing the Earth and that she contributes to mindless consumerism.

No. 1161

When did the patriarchy begin ?? some feminist theorists place its beginning 3200 years ago during the Hebrew conquest of Canan, while some feminist theorists go as far back during the First Agricultural Revolution 10,000-12,500 years ago to the beginnings of the patriarchy

No. 1163

>>1092
>I kinda want to educate them and help them see the truth. It's not that I'm doubting myself or the movement
Sorry if my wording seemed abrasive anon, I got what you meant. I was just trying to say that you should watch out for people trying to guilt you in that way for your views or for being educated on these things. Only because it can easily happen. You're doing a good thing by trying to help others, and it just shows that you're considerate of what happens to other women. It's sad that we live in a time where this stuff is normalized.

No. 1167

>>1161
A lot of radical feminists see it as transhistorical phenomenon so it happened before any form of human society even developed since our closest relative the chimpanzee is heavily male-dominated, as are most primate species. Others link it up with Marxist theories that it appearing during the agricultural revolution as humans developed the concept of property.

No. 1175

>>1167
>>1161
I see the patriarchy more as a viris that spread from culture to culture through conquest, according to Greek and Roman sources Germanic and Celtic peoples followed an egalitarian(and in certain tribes matriarchal) social order, where it was more then common to see women as druids, leatherworkers and even tribe chieftains, something which was demmed "barbaric" by the romans and outside of europe the sumerians who had a legal code that explicitly guaranteed rights for women and equality for all were conquered by the patriarchal Akkadians, the non-Patriarchal Arabians were conquered by the early Muslims, The patriachy just had certain advantages that helped them in war and conquest to subjugate non-patriarchal peoples

No. 1179

>>1175
Cultures in the Amazon rainforest are highly patriarchal even though indigenous Americans were isolated from all other human populations for tens of thousands of years. The Aboriginal cultures of Australia were patriarchal too despite being even more isolated and for an even longer time. Anthropologists have also observed that all cultures in the world have marriage, marriage is a cultural universal to ensure paternity or to give ownership of a woman's children to a man as men can never be sure who the father is. Many non-human animals have the males practise mate guarding to stop the female seeing other males or infanticide because they don't want to be raising another male's babies.

No. 1180

>>1175
>non-Patriarchal Arabians
Literally what. Arabian societies have been patriarchal even before the formation of Islam. In fact, Islam helped to stop the mass femicide of baby girls across the Arabian peninsula.

No. 1188

File: 1578535142837.jpg (272.85 KB, 651x599, Hejaz-English.jpg)

>>1180
Pre-Islamic tribes in southern and central Arabia weren't as patriarchal as Hejaz Arabs ( which Muhammad and his companions were), Arab femicide only occurred in that region

No. 1189

>>1188
>non-patriarchal
>weren't as patriarchal
Make up your mind, they were either patriarchal or they weren't. All human cultures have been patriarchal to varying degrees and no matriarchy has ever existed in history.

No. 1191

>>1078
Seconding this, and also – if it were "empowering," why aren't we in power yet, as women have been sexually objectified for thousands of years? Why has being The Sexy Looked-At Ones actually, yknow, gotten us in the places where money and laws are made? What "power" do we gain, and why isn't it the sort that actually changes the world?

No. 1195

>>1191
Considering the massive energy expenditure female humans must invest into offspring, it really makes no sense for a woman to focus so much on her physical attractiveness to appeal to males. It should be the other way around in humans with males making themselves look more attractive to gain female attention. Male humans have more muscle mass like most other male mammals because they engage in male-male physical competition for mates although I don't really see that in human males.

No. 1203

hortocultural societies weren't patriarchal, agricultural societies aren't either (see Greece). In herder societies like the Israelites we see a lot of patriarchy which correlates with abrahamic religion.
I believe in anthro I also learned that sexism, slavery, and poverty appears in the state system. Not tribes or smaller subsets of that or whatever.
Sorry I'm drunk posting huehue

No. 1333

>>1179
>all cultures in the world have marriage
This isn't true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosuo#Walking_marriages
There are plenty of cultures that had matrilineal inheritance and would thus have had no need for ensuring paternity of children.
>>1180
Stop caping for Islam anon. The only evidence we have for mass femicide in pre-Islamic Arabia literally comes from hadiths. Actual historical and anthropological evidence indicates that women lost rights and status after the introduction of Islam.

No. 1334

>>1179
The idea that men have always been oppressing women with their strength is so depressing.

I’m short af, 5ft and under 100lbs, I would have no chance if any man or even teenage boy tried anything against me.

No. 1339

>>1333
Everybody brings up the Mosuo as a “matriarchal culture” without even understanding their history. The Mosuo were highly sex-segregated with a parallel line of descent with boys getting their father’s status and girl’s their mothers. Mosuo men used to travel across China trading their wares or engaging in politics while women tended the home and looked after babies. The walking marriage is literally just another form of marriage even if it’s not the Eurocentric one you’re used to. Since there would one or a small number of Mosuo men at any time at home (usually there were none), the father was always very easy to guess. Whatever boy was born would be given to the father when old enough to travel while a girl would stay with the mother to help look after the home and eventually have her own children. Due to a series of military conflicts in the region, the Mosuo men could no longer travel around and they have no real defined role in the home. They mostly laze about, have sex, or help with basic chores while Mosuo women do everything which is extremely tiring and stressful. This is why so many Mosuo women want to marry Han Chinese men or other ethnic minorities to live a “better life” where they don’t have to be slaving around the house all day while their male counterparts do nothing.

No. 1341

>>1333
Don’t most matrilineal cultures have polygamy? That explains why they would inherit through the mother since the father isn’t going to be able to give away that much to his 12 kids born to 5 different women.

No. 1345

>>1339
Thank you for bringing up insight into the culture. I'm also wary about any type of society that is regarded as feminist or a matriarchy. I don't think there has been one in all history of humanity. Tinfoil but I believe that:

1. There's people (read:males) who claim there are/were matriarchal societies in the world just for the sake of having proof against feminism like: "Why are you winning so much about patriarchy??? There are matriarchal societies too see???? Women are privileged reeee!!!!1!1!1" (btw I'm not talking about the anons who posted the original posts about matriarchal societies)
2. Women in those societies have it as rough (or more) as any other woman in the world, as they are expected to work TWICE the amount they would be in any other patriarchal setting (because males won't give a shit about housework, as previous anon said). So that ~lovely matriarchy~ becomes a nightmare…

No. 1354

>>1345
I have never read any serious anthropologist who believes a matriarchy (the female equivalent to a patriarchy and not just something like matrlinieality/matrilocality/matrifocality) has ever existed in human history.

No. 1395

>>1077
Looking up "choice feminism" brings up a lot of discussion points; if not sure where to start, on tumblr a lot of interesting points/links from radfems come up.

No. 1937

>>832
Ok, not really resources, but could anyone post youtube channels (any topic, but beauty and (indie?) brands in particular) that either give radfem vibes or are openly radfem? thnx

No. 2000

>>1937
>beauty channel
>radfem vibes

You don’t understand what radical feminism is, do you?

No. 2002

>>1937
the beauty industry is inherently anti feminist. I'm not someone who thinks you can't be a feminist (even a radfem) and wear makeup but a lot of radfems really dislike it. I don't know of any radfem who makes content like that. I'm sure there are some, but I can't imagine anybody would advertise their radical feminism on a makeup channel, or their interest in makeup on a radfem channel. They'd be eaten alive by both communities.

Elly Arrow - Used to put out videos more often than she does now, but she's been a little more active lately. her videos are really thoughtful and well done.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWlLdZ24IfDIPxth02Nt8Xg

babyradfem_tv - Mostly an archive of old clips
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHH8wS-Kd1wUvlvrrCmMMPQ/videos

Sarah - She deleted a bunch of her more rant-y radfem videos recently and in the future wants to make videos about media, presumably through a radfem lens.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTq8pLRiPRjLHA5pgY1_IFg

No. 2018

>>1937
You’re either trolling or a complete moron. How the fuck are you going to be a beauty channel and espouse radical feminist beliefs? Stick to your liberal feminist beauty gurus, please.

No. 2059

>>2018
I am obviously a moron, I just was interested if any exist at all just in case. Actually I was wondering what an aesthetic that's not made to make men hard and so on would look like aside from the femcel one. There are tons of aesthetics that can't make a scrote hard innit? I looked at it from this point. And I have a feeling you wear a lot of makeup and I don't know why.
>>2000
I don't, I'm probably more retarded than you but I'm willing to learn about radfem as much as I can I swear. Sad I can't be a radfem though, as an ugly fatcel and femcel with a troons tier beard I am planning on grooming myself so I won't look in horror at myself anymore.

No. 2061

>>2002
So I assume no fashion/clothes channel either, bummer. Thank you so much for the videos, I'll take a good look at them.

No. 2064

>>2061
I suggest looking at radfem or radfem aligned celebrity women like Rowling and Germaine Greer. How do they dress/makeup/present themselves?

Beauty channels exist to serve an industry that hawks $60 palettes at teenagers, so while there are plenty of glamorous radfem women, beauty wouldn't be the sole focus of their online activity.

No. 2065

>>2059
I have never worn make-up in my life except for when I was 10 and forced to put on some lipstick by my mother.

No. 2066

>>2064
It's not really occupied on my mind so much, I just was curious since I too realized a lot of radfems look good, albeit they sound smart and are not focussing on beauty indeed. Thanks either way, sorry for asking stupid questions. (perhaps we need such a thread).
>rowling
almost forgot that she became a good writer overnight because of certain high quality tweets

No. 2068

>>2059
Honestly, the closest you'd get is alternative/subculture makeup, anything that's specifically made to not make someone "pretty" by conventional standards. Most scrotes aren't going to find, eg., corpsepaint sexy.

No. 2069

>>2064
Rowling ain’t a radfem at all, she just isn’t an idiot. She experienced DV, was a single mother, lived on welfare, and had her published name changed to hide her gender. I think if she were to say that biosex wasn’t real then she would be negating her own life experiences. She isn’t afraid to speak up unlike a lot of women since she’s a billionaire who is “uncancellable”.

No. 2070

>>2059
A lot of us don’t wear makeup or gave up on it long ago. You can wear make-up for personal reasons but please don’t ever think it’s a “radical feminist” thing. The beauty industry is controlled by men to reduce women’s worth to their appearances and it mentally stunts women since they spend thousands over their appearance. The wide acceptance of cosmetic surgery these days is why so many women think you can be “born in the wrong body” and this contributes to their acceptance of troonery.

No. 2071

>>2068
Yeah, women are objectified and commodities in this world so society conditions them to look and act in a way that pleases men. I know a lot of women say they only wear makeup for themselves or it’s their ~choice~ but you know the real reason is patriarchal brainwashing because they feel like an insecure piece of shit when they go barefaced since women are expected to be pretty 24/7. Meanwhile men never have that pressure to put on makeup so we allow men to age and be natural.

No. 2074

>>2071
They even have makeup guides for women in labor now because they’re afraid of looking ugly when giving birth.

No. 2076

>>2066
>a lot of radfems look good
I am from Argentina I have been in the radical feminist community since I was a teen in 2010. The women have all sorts of looks. Most of us don’t wear makeup and a lot of the women are older. We probably do exercise and read more than the average woman and we definitely hate men a lot more, but I don’t think we are “prettier” and that’s a very meaningless/sexist metric for us anyway.

No. 2093

>>2066
Would there be a problem if they didn't? Or I guess it's meant to be a response for the "haters"…

No. 2098

>>2065
Kek @ their misogynist projection.
>you sound like an angry woman so i bet you're ugly so i have a feeling you wear a lot of make-up~

No. 3349

I heard that majority of underage homicide convicts were imprisoned for killing their's mothers's violent partners. I once found statistics about this but now I don't know how the fuck am I supposed to google this to find those statistics again, does anyone have any resources?

No. 3370

>>832
Reminder of what rich scrots do with their money

No. 3629

everyone I know hates women of some kind. my WoC friends hate white women, my gay/queer women friends hate straight women, my white women friends are NLOGs. my rich woman friends hate poor women and vice versa. I stopped trying to be friends with men because I already know they hate women, but when does it stop? I'm tired.

No. 3635

>>3629
Don’t act like men don’t hate other men. Men are just unified in their hatred and dominance of women. The problem with women is that they are socialised to worship men and discourage unity with each other.

No. 3637

>>3635
I don't care about mens hatred of other men. I'm just venting about this phenomenon where women who are all about so called unity still reserve a population of women they don't like just to shit on.

No. 3641

>>3637
NTA but duh because misogyny is a thing so women discriminate each other based on sex

No. 3644

>>3629
Your black friends probably have a specific type of white woman in mind (the racist kind) when they say that stuff, like your gay friends are thinking about homophobic or dick-pandering straight women, and your rich and poor friends are classist. Those things don't really have anything to do with misogyny.
Funny how men can hate and compete with other men for personal or complex issues and that's normal human behavior. The second women aren't all sitting around a fire holding hands and singing kumbaya it's always chalked up to internalized misogyny lol. Kind of dehumanizing to think that we can't interact with each other with a full range of human emotions and behaviors imo.

No. 3664

>>3644
if it was that, I wouldn't be complaining tbh. but there has been a loss of nuance in our discussions lately. everything has become incredibly tribalistic. Karen Boogeyman meme and all of that.

maybe I just need new friends.

No. 3665

>>3664
>if it was that, I wouldn't be complaining tbh. but there has been a loss of nuance in our discussions lately. everything has become incredibly tribalistic. Karen Boogeyman meme and all of that.

socially in left wing spaces we're all starting to think in more tribal political terms than we did in the past. You can only be called an "oppressor"/"oppressed" now, People instantly categorize other people according to the group they belong to and all the other factors (class, mental health and even culture at times) tend to overlooked in any individual exchange. We are steadily descending to the types of politics one sees in places like the Sudan were people vote entirely on identity lines with zero concern for policies.

No. 3670

>>3665
Do you see the hypocrisy in your post?

No. 3671

I forgot Toddler and Tiaras exist and i feel sick to my stomach.
Beauty contests are an abbhorent concept as is,but on sometimes 0 to 3 year old girls??? This is BEYOND sickening. Especially when you see the values the mother give them (being pretty is the most important thing and all the other girls are competition) it makes me want to scream from sheer rage. The internalized mysogyny is so strong holy fuck.

No. 3676

Becoming a radfem ruined most anime for me because i see how mysoginistic it is now,i used to be a total weeb but now…
anyone sometimes wish they were still blissfully unaware? I'm glad i know about what's going on now,i can fight against the oppressor without being fooled, but the truth is so bitter and i feel lonely…

No. 3695

>>3676
I really don't understand how people can even label themselves weeaboos and not see how blatantly racist it is.

No. 3697

>>3695
Hows it racist

No. 3712

>>3695
It's just a meme


Delete Post [ ]
[Return] [Catalog]
[ Rules ] [ ot / g / m ] [ pt / snow / w ] [ meta ] [ Server Status ]