[ Rules ] [ ot / g / m ] [ pt / snow / w ] [ meta ] [ Server Status ]

/g/ - girl talk

File(20 MB max)
Password (For post deletion)

Read the post-Hellweek thread for Hellweek statistics, Q&A and upcoming updates

File: 1505013798236.png (117.98 KB, 1175x583, Screen-Shot-2017-04-18-at-6.41…)

No. 67378

What is a TERF?

TERF, or Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminism, is a branch of radicalism that denies the validity of transgender women’s identities as women. Sometimes, "exclusionary" is expanded as "eliminationist" or "exterminationist" instead to more accurately convey the degree to which TERFs advocate for harm towards trans people, specifically trans people who were coercively assigned male at birth. Their position denies that trans people's self-affirmed genders and sexes are equally valid as cis people's self-affirmed genders and sexes. It has a decades-long history of allying with anti-feminist causes in denying trans people access to health care, and other human rights.

Recently TERF is getting more exposure in feminism. What do you think about TERFs? Are they right, are they wrong, or somewhere in the middle?

No. 67379

'feeling' like the wrong gender isn't scientifically possible, it's a mental disorder. associating your sex organs with your gender is normal. anything else is dumb.

No. 67382

lol what "harm"? as usual, trans narcissists project their feelings when we make their pee pees sad onto women who don't put up with their bullshit. nobody wants to "exterminate" trans people.
No "terf" has ever hurt a trans woman, and not validating your fetishistic delusions is not harm.

The world is not a liberal arts campus. If you told Indian feminists that wanting sex separate bathrooms (which they advocate for) is sexist, or that lesbians need to be open to sex with a penis, they would laugh at you.

And since I'm assuming you're a biological female… quit stanning for troons. They will never do the same for you, ever.

No. 67386

I don't like this term because it makes it seem like the whole movememt is centered around "excluding trans" when that isn't the main point of rad fem at all.

No. 67387

I remember something about this topic not being allowed on lolcow. But don't take my word on that.

I'm somewhere in the middle. I think it's valid but also with current "trends" it's really hard to distinguish attention whores and people just mentally ill, seeking internet asspats to boost their little egos, friends and groups of support, just a feeling of belonging somewhere, from actual transes. It almost became a subculture that teens can wear. But I think it happens with everything that gets "hot". I'm kind of a stoic, I'm not as heated about this topic. As long as it's not harmful (and I know it can be, for example when transwomen bash ciswomen just out of idk? Jealousy?) then whatever.

No. 67389

File: 1505038430517.gif (473.94 KB, 200x150, ewwwwww.gif)

>Still identifying as a feminist

No. 67390

>It almost became a subculture that teens can wear.
Almost? No, it 100% IS.

No. 67391

While we are splitting into more factions, the forces of men are United stronger than ever.

Terf vs trans is an argument that belongs on Tumblr since the worst thing they can do to each other is say mean things. It's such a fucking distraction.

No. 67393

>tfw no terf gf to shit on trannies with

No. 67394

tumblr shit in general is a distraction

No. 67400

No. 67405

Back when I was on Tumblr as a teen, I'd identify as a TERF. Now I hate 99% of trans people.

No. 67408

File: 1505091763049.png (191.26 KB, 600x600, 1501637956046.png)

i just find it weird that people are supporting literal straight men who put on makeup and shitting on lesbians who don't like dick
it's amazing how you can manipulate people who just want to "be on the right side of history", just make a bunch of tumblr posts about how terfs are literally murdering people, and everyone will hate them!
i really hope this is just a trend

No. 67410

it's funny how so many of these big name trans women activists end up being outed as abusers and pedos

funnier still that none of the people they prey on seem to cis men

No. 67417

So where do yall get your daily TERF doses of reality? I've been checking r/gendercritical, any good tumblrs to follow?

PS trannies reading this - you are men roleplaying as women based on sexist stereotypes. wearing your mummy's dresses after school didn't make you trans, it made you a boy who liked dresses, and instead of working to make that an acceptable trait for men, you invade female spaces, how dare you.

No. 67418

Self purging is a bad trait of Liberals and liberalism overlaps with feminism a lot. We already had radfem and libfem and now we're gonna split again over some bathrooms and Tumblr posts.

I'm looking at this from the perspective of American liberal that really wishes we could get our shit together since the right has steamrolled us in elections for the last decade.

No. 67419

atleast this is something worth splitting over. invading female safe spaces is ridiculous. people need to think more clearly before sparing one person's feelings at the cost of someone else's safety.

No. 67421



Well, while you do that, bills like this are sneaking through state legislatures. Summary of that is Doctors can lie to you or simply not tell you about complications with pregnancy and avoid liability. This bill is there to provide cover for doctors who do so to avoid you deciding to get an abortion.

And yeah, that's Texas, but since 2008, more than a 1000 political offices have flipped from left to right, and these kinds of bills are getting disgustingly common again.

Of course, if you're not American maybe that bathroom thing is relatively more important on the feminism battlefield, and then my opinion is invalid. I just don't think this worth making a whole new acronym movement, based on what's happening in my country right now.

No. 67424

Get your offtopic derailing out of here. Nobody's saying that banning abortion isn't a relevant feminist issue but creeps putting on a skirt and makeup to harass women and take over their spaces is the theme of this thread you idiot.

No. 67425

yea, i'd rather make sure we can actually talk about abortion rights or the uterus in general without hurting some gross crossdressers feefees cause they don't have a real vagina, thanks.

No. 67426

TERFs are the theme of this thread. You know, that movement that had to differentiate itself from radical feminism because their number one issue is to be Trans-Exclusionary.

Since that issue is so important to them that it makes up the first two letters of their name, they have no problem backing the enemies of feminism just so they can stick it to trans people.

No. 67427

Jesus just fuck off. You sound like a butthurt tranny.

No. 67428

Is there anything in my post that is incorrect? TERFs don't have a history of siding with misogynistic allies just to get trans people?

No. 67429

>get to trans people
>protect themselves from purposely mutilated men trying to get access to our safe spaces


No. 67431

That's the part you're going to fix?

This is why I said what I said about TERFs. Because talking shit about trans people was more important than even attempting to argue that the movement doesn't get used by men as a wedge to crack feminism in half.

TERFism only covers one thing that radfem didn't, which was bathroom stuff. Yet TERFs will flip to the right, against libfem, in a second over it.

No. 67432

you're acting as if not being totally 100% left libfem is going to the right 100%. it's not black and white my friend. being on the same wavelength as the right doesn't make anyone 'right' so to speak, it's just some overlap, and most of us are fine with transrights, but they need to not interlace with feminism because it's not appropriate.

No. 67435

That's a more like a radfem point of view though.

TERFs split off from radical feminism and added "exclusionary" to their name because "most of us are fine with transrights" was not acceptable. They are directly against any type of "inclusive" fem by definition.

Anything more moderate than that goes against the first two words of what they call themselves.

Of course, any girl that wants to be TERF is free to do so, but I just said what I said because I don't think having a faction of feminism that can't play ball with the other feminisms is a good idea, especially over bathrooms.

The big picture view of the movement is that they are girls for whom radical feminism was not radical enough. They named themselves Trans-Exclusionary which means (and TERF behavior seems to bear this assumption) that the core of their feminism is to oppose trans. A narrowed down radfem doctrine like that can and does put TERFs in position to be used against the other feminisms by anyone promising to be anti-trans.

All of this is said through the lens of American politics. But the Carolina bathroom situation showed how easily TERFs could be flipped to supporting and possibly voting for politicians who are anti-women just for this one issue.

No. 67436

no i think you're confused, the exclusionary is referring to excluding them in feminism. having transrights separately is fine, but they don't want that. they want to shoehorn in all their shit into our rhetoric and get mad when they don't get catered to more than real women.

you sound like you've been on tumblr too much, most of us don't care what trans people do themselves outside of feminism, they just need to stay on their side.

No. 67438

You're using an extreme for trans and moderating the TERF position an awful lot.

You wouldn't know about those huffy mad trannies that TERFs get so ginned up about if you weren't on Tumblr yourself.

Normally you just poop, wash your hands and leave–that's all a bathroom is. But TERFs get so fired up over protecting this "safe space" that they happily jump in with Conservative boycotting of gay friendly corporations who have been great allies to feminism and LGB rights. All it takes is a media narrative of the big hairy trans-boogyman to get a growing section of feminism to turn right around and eat its own friends.

Of course, TERFs are free to be TERFs but I just think their zeal to be trans exclusionary is not helping anyone and only serves as a weapon that powerful men can use to break feminism in half on nearly any social issue.

No. 67445

i realize you must be a troll, but there's a reason bathrooms are gendered bro. and by the way, tolerable transwomen can and do go into our bathrooms without making a fuss and no one notices or cares. the ones who are up in arms are the non-passing penis using creeps who want lesbians to fuck them and demand to be treated the same as we are.

No. 67446


>corporations who have been great allies to feminism and LGB rights


No. 67450

read some dworkin classics, watch some magdalene berns videos and go from there.

No. 67452

Ban children from bathrooms- they're the ones who slide under stalls or creep through the cracks of the doors.

No. 67457

I used to be all pro-trans and had severe gender dysphoria myself, but without going into a long-winded story I came into a realization that it was all some grade A bullshit. I had many peak trans moments during a few years and ultimately started thinking outside of the trans bubble, especially after seeing tumblr fakebois and perverted, misogynistic transwomen. I've met some nice, moderately sane trans people but a hell of a lot more mental cases that should look into therapy and psychosis medication instead of surgeries and HRT.

While I do believe gender dysphoria is a real thing just like anorexia and other forms of body dysphoria are, it doesn't mean someone can actually have the "brain" of an opposite gender. Literally no study can confirm it. It's a mental disease and usually stems from sexual or gender-related traumas and is practically a form of dissociation. A lot of tumblr fakebois are just lesbians in denial or associate negative things with femininity. I was once like that too. The transwomen are either entitled heterosexual men who can't deal with the pressure the ideal image of a man places on them and decide they're lesbians in male form instead, perverts with a fetish or gay men in denial.

I really hate how libfems think the problem is with the gender binary itself and not the strict gender roles and stereotypes that exist to this day. While for example the 50's housewife ideal mostly isn't around anymore, girls are still left with immerse pressure to be beautiful and feminine instead of talented and intelligent. On the other hand femininity is associated with being vulnerable, sexualized, weak and only meant to serve men.

>they happily jump in with Conservative boycotting of gay friendly corporations who have been great allies to feminism and LGB rights.
The fuck are you going on about? That's what intersectional libfems are doing you dope, not radfems. They're the ones screaming about rainbow flags at mcdonalds during pride week because it's "commercializing LGBT issues". They're also the ones supporting fundamentalist islam, a religion well known for treating women like cattle.

No. 67462

I have some anti-trans ideas but i'm not a TERF because it's my #1 goal in life to get married and my best friend is mtf trans (but I don't really see him as a girl, and I guess he is fine with it)

No. 67464

I have some opinions that come across as transphobic but I think terfs, especially those identifying as one, are wrong.

No. 67484

and? we were okay a while without feminism, but the sad thing is that when we need it again, everyone denies we need it, we may not need it law wise, however we definitely need it socially

No. 67486

>their zeal to be trans exclusionary is not helping anyone and only serves as a weapon that powerful men can use to break feminism in half
>not wanting feminism to cater to literal men is helping men
Makes sense

No. 67488

Expanding a little on this: what I see most libfem people do when they bring up this argument is this retarded
>wah wah if ONLY you ACCEPTED us ALREADY we could like STOP FIGHTING amongst ourselves and go back to our FEMINISM
but that's wrong. First, because feminism has always been about women. Biological women, not because feminists were transphobic before trans even was a widespread thing, but because being female means you get socialized as a woman. It means you're probably going to face sexual harassment/abuse growing up. It means you're going to learn not to speak your mind, not believe in your potential, to contain your sexuality (or have it denied), and so on and so forth.
Then there's the female body we're all taught to find disgusting. Masturbation, vaginas ("ew! gross, smells like fish!"), periods, hair, excessive fat or not enough fat, the female body is understood not as a person but as something primarily used by men for sex.

Trannies understand this better than anyone, by the way. Why would they trade their socially accepted cocks for a disgusting vagina? Besides, they're "better than real women" - and the standard they use for that? They're more feminine, and their bodies are "more sexually attractive" (debatable imo but they do say that), better for sex, higher (male) sex drive, enjoy taking it up the ass.

Why would they get a vagina when screaming that pussy anything is transphobic?
Trannies don't want to be women.

And their issues are not the same women's issues, simply because most don't "pass". Most are never going to be treated the same way a woman is (even if we ignore socialization and focus on post-adulthood).

Their issues aren't women's issues, they're specifically trans issues and including those in feminism is retarded. And if they pass and want to address issues faced for being women, the fact that they're trans doesn't matter. It's not excluding trans people from feminism, it's excluding trans issues.
And when trans issues are brought into feminism? We get vagina-positive things and female health concerns labeled transphobic. As if being born with a "disgusting" vagina and socialized as a woman was some kind of privilege.

TL; DR: we were here first, go start your own movement.

No. 67498

I couldn't disagree more. Tell me where the intersection between women's issues and trans issues is without defaulting to how we're all "girls" and should stick together.

Any issues trans people face are trans exclusive, not in what happens, but why. For instance, a transwoman faces violence because they're trans, but only if it's obvious (or becomes obvious), but they choose that, they chose to become a woman because of their dysphoria instead of trying therapy to make them more comfortable as a man. A woman faces violence because they're a woman, they cannot simply decide not to be.

Being trans is a mental disorder. It's a sad one but it definitely is. Choosing to try to be a woman isn't the same as actually being one.

No. 67506

Completely random question here, how many of you ladies hate your dad?

No. 67511

I don't understand what that has to do with anything.

No. 67514

>Implying being a radfem has nothing to do with hating your father

Kek. I like how you didn't answer the question, either.

No. 67515

Not a TERF but I agree with some of the "transphobic" viewpoints. I don't want MTFs in spaces like bathrooms, changing rooms etc. Transwomen are a tiny minority, why should the majority (women) have to be the ones who are made to be uncomfortable? It's not fair.
Also the trans community need to fuck off with the "some women have penises" bullshit and say it's bigotted for a lesbian or straight man to not want to fuck them.
The trans community seem to be both misogynistic and homophobic at times.

No. 67516

My dad was a typically great dad, that's why I'm asking what it has to do with anything? Notice how YOU didn't answer my question.

No. 67517

stop feeding the robot and just report you dummy

No. 67617

I'm a TERF and my dad and I get along great, same goes for mom, sorry we don't fall into your childish lil stereotye

No. 67618


I agree with this.

No. 67623

I'm not a TERF really but I do admit many radical feminists have a point.

My main problem is that, well TERFs aren't even mean to trans people. The vast majority of them still respect them and their pronouns and such, they just just a disagreement about the existence of gender. I get that sucks for some people.

But TERFs are viewed like absolute scum who should die etc etc by every mainstream feminist.

But look at reality? Who are the people calling you "trannies" and committing actual violence and even killing you daily? It's not TERFs, it's MEN every fucking time. Like I even see antifeminists who call trans people "Trannies" all the time ranting about TERFs. Wtf?

No. 67626

>And their issues are not the same women's issues, simply because most don't "pass". Most are never going to be treated the same way a woman is (even if we ignore socialization and focus on post-adulthood).

A million times THIS. They will NEVER face the same issues as biological women so they should keep out of our spaces. They will never know what it's like to go through childhood, puberty and adulthood as a woman from birth. They will never be socially treated the same as women. So in conclusion - they don't belong in feminism. We don't have to take their "wah wahhh lesbians don't want to fuck me" problems into our ideology. They're men and they'll always be entitled men.

It's the intersectional libfems that have major daddy issues and not TERFs. Stop trying to troll this fucking thread and get out already.

No. 67634

Ok so I consider myself a feminist, and although I can respect transwomen/transmen and call them whatever shit they want (honestly I don't care what someone wants to be called unless it's totally extreme, otherwise I'm not bothered) I've always thought of transwomen not as "regular women" I put them in another category.

Like, I'll still call them a woman IRL or like for conversational/casual purposes but if it's for awards for example I would say " the first trans woman to win x" instead of "first woman to win x".

If anything, we should just have 3 bathrooms, men, women, and "third gender" (people such as trans,people who don't feel comfortable in either one idk).

Thankfully for me, I've only met 2 trans women in my whole life and they have not been creepy fetishists, they have looked and acted like "regular" women so I don't feel uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with them, but I can understand the need for another bathroom.

No. 67637


>But TERFs are viewed like absolute scum who should die etc etc by every mainstream feminist.

Isn't that a bit extreme? In this thread, those of us who are not TERF have been pretty respectful of them.

No. 67638

TW say that assault won't happen in the bathrooms and that they just want to quietly use them, but i honestly call BS since so many of them get triggered just by thinking about women having periods or being pregnant. I can imagine one of them trying to peak in if they hear a girl opening a pad or something.

Also to the ladies who say they agree with terfs but aren't terfs, what gives? Is there a fine line between terf and not a terf. I was under the impression that you don't really get to choose if you're a one or not.

As a more general question, is it possible to be a radfem without being a terf?

No. 67639

It depends on if you judge TERFs by their behavior or just by their doctrine. What they say is ok. How they say it, bothers me.

TERFs seem to like going out of their way to use the most demeaning terms possible for trans people. That's not something commonly seen in radfem. It's something completely separate from the arguments regarding trans people and I want no part of it. If vanilla radfem can cover my issues, them there's no reason to call myself a TERF and be associated with behavior that makes me uncomfortable.

No. 67644

>rips poster off wall

No. 67649

File: 1505618893496.png (763.27 KB, 1076x1920, tumblr_ou6qdbr9i11w9zrpno1_128…)

I don't know about mainstream, but on tumblr/twitter its pretty popular to hate on radfems/terfs in social justice circles.

No. 67650

The thing is that you would be considered a terf by many.

No. 67652

>Also to the ladies who say they agree with terfs but aren't terfs, what gives?
I agree with them on the basis that I don't believe that gender should equate to anything other than your genitals and I simply can't see transwomen as women unless they pass really well like Gigi Gorgeous or someone like that. Even then, I still see them as not real women. However, I also believe transpeople should have rights and don't have a problem using their preferred pronouns (as long as they're not pulling that special snowflake transtrender shit).

>As a more general question, is it possible to be a radfem without being a terf?

My experience with radfems are that they're foaming at the mouth over protecting transpeople. Like, they'll bitch you out if you accidently call someone you meet for the first time by their obvious birth gender.

No. 67653

>They're men and they'll always be entitled men.
This is the problem I have with transwomen. Other than the rare exception of the ones who lived like girls since childhood, they almost always have attitudes and personalities that clearly show they're male. Most live as males until adulthood, thus retaining their male personality even through their transition. It never truly goes away.

No. 67654

>For instance, a transwoman faces violence because they're trans, but only if it's obvious (or becomes obvious), but they choose that, they chose to become a woman because of their dysphoria instead of trying therapy to make them more comfortable as a man. A woman faces violence because they're a woman, they cannot simply decide not to be.

A) By the logic you're using, one could easily say if a woman doesn't want to be a victim of violence, she should simply dress as a man. B) The compulsion to harm a man in a dress is rooted in extreme sexism. You say they should go to therapy to be more comfortable with being a man, but what about someone who is, but just prefers women's clothing? Should feminists not stand up for those people?

No. 67655

>wishing someone would choke because they said something you don't like
>boiling said people in a pot
>H U M A N D E C E N C Y

No. 67657


>Who are the people calling you "trannies" and committing actual violence and even killing you daily? It's not TERFs, it's MEN every fucking time.

They're too cowardly to confront male violence. It's easier for them to lash out at women instead

No. 67659

Just speaking from my own experience, a lot of the time people won't say controvertial things irl amongst friends. But when it comes to discussing TERFs, I've had friends tell me to my face how they think TERFs are ugly, that no man will ever want one, they delight in the idea of them dying alone. They equate TERFs to Nazis, white supremacists and Trump-suppoerters (I don't even live in the US btw so idk what the obsession with Trump-supporters is). All those words are interchangeable to them. They'll share stuff with me about TERFs being DESTROYED by trans people in online debates or being screamed at by hysteric trans women looming over them at protests and marches.

Which is hilarious because I am a TERF and I have nothing but respect for my trans friends. I've never wished death upon anyone so idk why they want that for me. I want them to have the same rights as me and to be able to live how they want and marry who they want. But they have NOTHING to do with feminism and should stop putting their noses in it. I'm really sick of it. They get offended at feminist marches when people hold signs that have imagery of female body parts or when someone gives a speech and doesn't say "women AND TRANS WOMEN". They want women to be called "uterus carriers" which is so fucking insulting and objetifying. They demand access to our bathrooms which I think is fucking sick because that's where me and my friends have hung out on nights out when someone has been too drunk to stand or when someone has had something slipped into their drink and we're waiting on an ambulance. If we let trans people into our bathrooms, men will follow us in. It gives away our only safe space.

They're not feminists, they're just your run-of-the-mill misogynistic men. They see women as sex/baby-making objects, just like men and any feminist events they go to are just a fashion show to them. The only reason why trans people got involved in feminism is because they sure as hell weren't going to get support from anyone else, I wish people could see that.

No. 67663

Yep, I have trans friends who hate TERFs and have expressed nothing but vitriol for them. They either don't realize that I'm radical leaning or just don't care because I respect pronouns and advocate for LGBT rights. Like you, I respect transwomen and want them to be safe and happy–but not if that means potentially putting women at risk. Physically or psychologically. We can have women spaces where transwomen are welcome, but we still NEED female-only spaces.

I feel like radical feminism is much kinder to transmen because some radical feminists bought into the trans brigade logic, started to transition, and realized they're actually just GNC women. But their voices are silenced by trans groups because detransitioners apparently take away from the image they're trying to present.

I left the radfem circles long ago, because there were some crazies in there, but still agree with a lot of what they have to say. I'm reluctant to even label myself as a feminist now because it's a commodified trend rather than an ideology. At least, IMO.

No. 67665

File: 1505654128049.png (842.56 KB, 1280x1812, dcefb8ba-64dd-4db5-8c08-8a7133…)

That is based on this btw.

No. 67669

Well at least that one isn't attempting to hide behind being morally "decent."

No. 67671

>They want women to be called "uterus carriers" which is so fucking insulting and objetifying
Oh god, that is horrifying. Please tell me it's just a small number of crazies who want that. Can't say that I'm surprised, though, with the militant vitriol toward female genitals that's so rampant in the trans movement. How can you say you're a feminist and demand to be included in feminism when you want us to completely disregard THE VERY THING THAT SCIENTIFICALLY MAKES SOMEONE A WOMAN and is central to the history of female oppression???

The big thing that enrages me about the entire trans moment is the demand for erasure of female body parts. That shit just makes them the enemy. A militant feminist I'm acquainted with put a disclaimer on vagina related art that she meant no disrespect to trans women and that shit pissed me off so much, I wanted to flip a desk. The fact she even feels the need to say that so that she isn't seen as transphobic shows how insane this whole thing has gotten.

These people should be fucking happy with safely being able to live their lives and be called their preferred pronouns, this whole agenda to literally take over the female gender shows we've gone too far in the other direction. We need to balance acceptance with reality and stop catering to these asinine demands.

No. 67673

Talking about triggered trans tumblerinas, I love this blog

No. 67674

Wow those banners are really cute, wonder what she uses to make them

No. 67676


interesting article questioning why it's ok to be transgender, when it isn't ok to be transracial.

No. 67679

On the topic of transwomen not respecting lesbian's boundaries regarding dicks, I myself have been in the same boat, but with a transman. He was extremely offended by my decision not to date him and demanded a detailed explanation. I told him as gently as I could muster that having a penis is mandatory for me to have a sexual relationship with someone (the other big factor was that he was fat as fuck and I didn't find him remotely attractive, but I withheld that to spare his feeling to the best of my ability) and he painted me to be a transphobe on league with the kind of people who want to throw them in asylums and force them to wear dresses like back in the day. He made the big deal about how just because he didn't have a dick didn't mean he couldn't fuck me like a man and he had a strap on. I told him I simply couldn't and he proceeded to be a dick to me the remainder of our friendship.

When I relayed this to a friend a few weeks later, she told me I was in the wrong because I basically told him I don't see him as a man. I guess it's true, I just can't see them that way when it comes to having sex. I did realize when I thought about it that I could totally fuck a transwoman as long as she was convincing and she didn't have surgery or hormone therapy (I know that's only like .01% of trans women, but still). When I told my friend this, she insisted that made me bi, but I don't see how since penis is still essential. What do you guys think? Also, what is the best way to turn down a transman without being painted as a transphobe? Just tell them they're not my type, or would that give it away?

This person seems like someone I could have good conversation with.

No. 67681

I've literally never heard a valid argument as to why transgender is fine, but transracial is super offensive and I've asked that quite a few times. It always boils down to "it's just different!" I asked an extremely self-absorbed girl with gender issues how it's different than when I wanted to bleach my skin desperately and she said "you couldn't possibly understand what it's like to feel so disgusted with what you see in the mirror that you would do anything to change it". Like… yes, you dumb bitch, that's the entire fucking point of what I'm saying. I hated myself and had to learn to get the fuck over it. I have never seen people more self-absorbed than in the trans community. They have a disproportionate number of people who think they're the only ones who've ever felt real suffering or self-hatred and play the oppression Olympics like no other.

No. 67687

Because being transgender is a real thing. It might be mental illness, or a physical disorder, either way tons of studies do show that their brains are wired differently - more closely aligned to their gender identity.
And that's fine.
The problem is, it just doesn't dismiss your entire childhood and upbringing, which differs based on gender, or your actual genitals. The problem is people who insist they have a clit or a penis when they don't, or who insist that, because they feel like a woman/man then they know what it's like. And that's disregarding fetishists entirely.

No. 67688

Back when I was active on tumblr, there was actually a community of transwomen who openly identified as radical feminists, or "truscum".

Btw, truscum are people who believe you must suffer from gender dysphoria in order to be actually considered trans. Make of that what you will..

No. 67691

I'm sorry that that happened to you, anon. It's disgusting when someone doesn't respect your boundaries. Can't believe your other friend said that as well. People are allowed to have preferences and boundaries JFC.

No. 67694

Seeing talk about "transracial-ness" was what made me skeptical about transgender-ness.

What do you guys think though about comparing it to sexualities? Like, there are sexualities towards genders but not races, so I think that's why there may be trans-ness in regards to gender but not races.
But yeah, that's the only argument I can really think of to justify the difference between "transgender-ness" and "transracial-ness".

No. 67695

File: 1505727775006.jpg (44.25 KB, 527x350, Capture.JPG)

I'm loving the drama that's happening with some crazy fakeboi

No. 67696

File: 1505729361306.jpg (25.24 KB, 530x243, Capture.JPG)

I love you uwubanners

No. 67708

File: 1505762028284.gif (242.35 KB, 475x300, hitachiin_twins.gif)

Holy kek that fake "anxiety attack" typing

No. 67709

a lot of those brain studies aren't conclusive. we still don't know if there are sex differences according to neuroscience.

I left the radfem circles long ago, because there were some crazies in there, but still agree with a lot of what they have to say. I'm reluctant to even label myself as a feminist now because it's a commodified trend rather than an ideology. At least, IMO.


That sucks. Nobody should have to have sex with someone they don't want to

No. 67716

I love crytyping so much

No. 67718

>a lot of those brain studies aren't conclusive. we still don't know if there are sex differences according to neuroscience.

Well I guess not, neuroscience is practically primitive. We know so little about how and why our brain works the way they do, or don't. It's not outside the realm of possibility.
So many things can go wrong in the womb, people born without or with extra limbs, it's not that hard to imagine the body developing differently than the brain.
It's sort of like people who want to amputate a limb because it feels "wrong". Extremely rare, but it happens. It feels foreign and "wrong" because it isn't in their brain's map. I guess being truly transgender is sort of like that.

No. 67721

Just because something shows up on a brain scan doesn't mean it's a biological issue you're born with and not treatable. Depression noticeably shows up on brain scans and that doesn't mean you're born with it or that it can't be treated with medication and therapy. Brains go through changes according to your mental state all your life.

And body dysphoria is not a "birth defect". Anorexia is a form of body dysphoria. Black kids hating their skin is a form of body dysphoria. Anyone can agree that their self-hatred is because of outside influence and society enforcing standards and stereotypes on them, but suddenly with gender it's "a real thing" and requires mutilating surgery and hormonal medication that fucks up your insides for the rest of your life? When the other forms of body dysphoria are treated with cognitive behavioral therapy and psychosis medication? Imagine telling a black kid that no, it's not the society glorifying white skin around you, it's because you actually were born with a white brain. That's the equivalent of saying to a self-hating girl suffering through puberty that yes, indeed, your interest in stereotypically boyish stuff and hating your tits that attract unwanted attention really does mean you're a man and DEFINITELY not that the society is forcing gender stereotypes and injecting girls with internalized hatred of their objectified body since birth.

Since most doctors are now pushing the idea of offering HRT and surgeries right away, we'll never get to test different forms of treatment. Patients (and their parents) are told that they will most likely kill themselves unless they go through full transition, so of course they want to go through it. The only thing they leave out is the fact that the risk of suicide actually rises after transitioning. And why wouldn't it, it's basically just mutilating your body and a lot of young trans people have no clue how painful and irreversible it is.

No. 67732

The doctors are just doing this shit for money.

I read a study that mtf trans specifically have a lot of shame and self loathing in the US because of circumcision, which also is done in the same situation you described, scaring parents, not explaining how irreversible it is, not explaining the dangers of it as a procedure, just wanting to line their pockets. They're doing the same thing with the trans movement. Society pushes gender roles on people, which make them think they themselves are wrong instead of society. Then doctors mislead them and their parents and they ruin their bodies.

I am totally against trans anything, but not because I don't accept them, but because they are not a gender, or a sex, they're diseased.

No. 67734

I think this problem started when transgender was seperated from body dismorphia and declassified as a mental illness so the movement could gain traction. Like the transmovement has a huge issue with calling it a mental illness, and while I get there is still stigma around mental illness its not as much as it used to be and if they really cared about their fellow transpeople they would try to actually find a cure. I have read many heartbreaking testimonies about detranitioned transpeople who are now against the movement because of how they believed the lies and how not only did transitioning not help them mentally but how they didnt realise you cant go back and have now royally fucked up their bodies.

No. 67735

i think that's probably because, going back to the fetish aspect, people who actually -want- to transition for whatever reason would be shamed, since it's their choice now to ruin their bodies, rather than getting therapy. It wouldn't make sense to try to force the movement to cure the illness if they are the ones would would be shamed.

No. 67736

I cannot for the life of me figure out how anyone, no matter how big an ally they are, can seriously sit there and say with a straight face that it isn't a mental illness. I've talked to trans people who have said shit like "sometimes I'll see a pair of scissors and have to resist the urge to cut it off myself", not to mention all the talk of wanting to kill themselves and how prominent self-harm is with them. One of the people who said shit like this to me got enraged when I suggested seeing a consoler who specializes in trans people and said that's why trans people don't trust cispeople, because we hear this shit and tell them they need therapy. LIKE YEAH YOU FUCKING DO.

No. 67737

Seriously. It's the same type of thing the other anon was talking about where people -used- to get their limbs amputated. That doesn't happen anymore cause it's fucking insane. And yet why are we letting these people destroy their genitals? I just don't get it, but I really feel there's a money aspect to it. Once you cure someone, they only have a chance of relapse, but post-op trans people have to get followups or re-surgery, a lot of them get breast implants which require maintenance forever. When they're on HRT, they need to keep going back for prescriptions and check-ups. All this stuff takes years and can last until they die, while they can get therapy for a year and possibly be cured forever.

No. 67746

What are your guys thoughts on just not associating with transpeople or gender specials? Assuming there's no voicing that's the reason, just silently avoiding them.

No. 67749

I do this not because they are trans but because I assume that they would rage at me if I said something that didn't fit the general trans narrative surrounding dating, bathrooms etc. I don't want to be labelled as a transphobic bigot or right wing or whatever and have my name dragged through the dirt by someone.

No. 67754

Well, exactly. But if you do you'll be called a transphobe and screamed down (same as if you are a lesbian who doesnt want to date a transwoman) apparently not buying into these peoples delusions is oppression. Oh the bigotry!

No. 67755

Well easier said than done, a few years ago this was easy to do but I have noticed recently more and more people are coming out (I believe the term is transtrender? People who say they are transgender but are not dysmorphic/make no effort at all to "pass" as the opposite gender) okcupid is full of them. But also its like >>67749 said.

I find it very hard to keep quiet now tho when some of them go round saying "if you're a lesbian and you wont date a transwomen you're not a lesbian/a bigot" because they are saying this to teenagers who feel guilty and even worse getting a lot of much older transwomen hitting on them. I'm not even a lesbian but I have huge sympathy and am becoming protective of especially younger lesbians because no one should be forced to have sex with someone so they dont feel like a bigot. makes me sick.

Saged for rant.

No. 67762

The entitlement to sex with women who aren't attracted to them is such a classic toxic male trait. It makes it even harder to see them as women because of this. The lack of logic behind the "you're not a real lesbian if you don't date trans women" argument also really shows how delusional these people really are. So, you have to date people with dicks who wear dresses to be considered a lesbian? Okay…

No. 67764

huh? how dense can you be? people who get labelled "TERF" don't label themselves with that. OTHER people use that label, because despite the many opinions someone might have and the things they advocate for, the number one issue to trans people is that they're not being pandered to.

No. 67765

this is so fucking on point I want to read everything you've ever written on this matter. Especially that last paragraph.

No. 67766

Thank you for saying this anon. Like I used to be worried about coming here and showing my real thoughts because if you have any thoughts which are feminist-y you'd get shit here so glad this thread is here. But isnt it sad that these days not wanting to date everyone makes you a bigot?

Oh wait who am I kidding this just applies to those "horrible lesbians" who have the audacity to not fuck transwomen. Like I said even though I am not a lesbian I am starting to get really defensive of them because that shit riles me up. The transgender movement is a cult.

No. 67767

>If anything, we should just have 3 bathrooms, men, women, and "third gender"
My school has this (in the form of gender-neutral washrooms) and it works out really well. It's great because "non-passing" people can use those restrooms without making anyone uncomfortable, or having to be uncomfortable themselves. It's also nice for people who are cis but androgynous - I have a very masculine-looking female friend who uses these restrooms instead because it's awkward for her to get mistaken as a man when she's in the female restroom.
I imagine these would be hard to implement all over the place (like most places with public restrooms aren't going to have the room/money to add another) and stick-in-ass conservatives would throw a fit, but honestly it'd be great to have it in all universities, larger government buildings, even malls, museums, etc

No. 67768

Completely random question here, how many fedora's and mlp plushies do you own?

No. 67771

The sad thing is that the idea of a third bathroom is highly offensive to these people and their "allies" (blind ass kissers) because it's not ~fully acknowledging their gender identity~. In my perfect world, there would be four bathrooms; male, female, gender special, and family so that I don't have to shit next to someone's snot nosed male child. I once had a boy I swear couldn't be younger than twelve peek into my stall while he was in the bathroom with his mom. She acted like it was no big deal and he was "just curious". Like, no bitch, if you don't start teaching that kid that shit isn't acceptable he'll be on a registry by the time he's 20. I don't give a fuck if you identify as female or are a kid, I don't want males in spaces where I'm audibly peeing and shitting with nothing but a thin, easily see through door for privacy.

No. 67772

The sad thing is that the idea of a third bathroom is highly offensive to these people and their "allies" (blind ass kissers) because it's not ~fully acknowledging their gender identity~. In my perfect world, there would be four bathrooms; male, female, gender special, and family so that I don't have to shit next to someone's snot nosed male child. I once had a boy I swear couldn't be younger than twelve peek into my stall while he was in the bathroom with his mom. She acted like it was no big deal and he was "just curious". Like, no bitch, if you don't start teaching that kid that shit isn't acceptable he'll be on a registry by the time he's 20. I don't give a fuck if you identify as female or are a kid, I don't want males in spaces where I'm audibly peeing and shitting with nothing but a thin, easily see through door for privacy.

No. 67775

i N t E r N a L i Z e D M i S o G y N y

No. 67789

>And body dysphoria is not a "birth defect"

You can't say that for sure.

As for anorexia or hating one's skin colour, these are nearly unexistant without social precursors, or religious which is a social invention as well.

Or gender roles.

I'm just saying I do believe some people are genuinely trans, and I hate how people take a black and white view of things.

I am a radical feminist, and I think the vast majority of trans folks are either frauds or mislead or plain brainwashed. But to dismiss every single one of them is wrong.

No. 67795

There's been a lot of studies about trans being total bullshit. The brain from birth has no concept of 'gender' and is wired based on the rest of the body. They used to perform gender reassigment on babies, girls with large clitorises and guys with micropenises/botch circumcisions and it totally does not work. It fucks them up royally even with hormone replacement because the brain is wired from birth to understand it's real gender. Even if you were right about some people being 'genuinely trans' it is almost impossible to tell, and you could still attempt to fix it with years of therapy, if that doesn't work the surgery can come waaaay later. In no way should we be doing HRT and SRS before trying years and years of therapy even if being trans is real.

No. 67796

I am 100% fine with trans men, 100% critical of trans women. I do not care what trans people want to do, but people who were born male and retain toxic male traits have no place in women's spaces. Trans men at least should have a voice on issues such as reproductive rights etc, and a trans man isn't going to rape or hurt a woman like trans women do. Trans women are creepy 9/10 times.

No. 67797

>even with hormone replacement because the brain is wired from birth to understand it's real gender

You meant sex reassignment and sexuality, not gender.
I'm not disagreeing with you. However, gender is determined as the identity and roles imposed by societal and familial circles once the biological sex is determined.
Everyone can change genders easily, it's their biological sexualities that they cannot escape. That's why a baby who had a sex reassignment at birth begins to doubt their gender as they grow older because they still have the hormonal changes and thoughts of someone from the opposite sex.

At any rate, babies and young children shouldn't be mutilated like that ever. Nor the idea placed into their heads until they're grown enough to make their own decisions.

No. 67799

I'm a TERF. I support being respectful of trans people if I encounter them in the workplace etc. I believe they shouldn't be victims of physical violence. I'll even respect your pronouns if you're passing (Blaire White yes, Riley Dennis no) However I dont believe they are the gender they wish to be.

You are a man or woman based on what you're born with and no, I am not saying women born with defects or who lose one of those things at some point aren't women. If a woman retains at least 1 biological characteristic that only a biological woman can, then they are female. Ovaries, the ability to become pregnant, have a period, natural female hormone levels, breasts, etc. If you have any biological characteristics of a female despite having 1 or more defects or having something removed due to cancer and other physical diseases, you are female.

However, synthetic hormones, genital reconstruction surgeries to look more like the opposite (it's NOT reassignment), wigs, laser treatment, boob job, women's clothes etc, do not make a man a woman. Even Blaire White admit she isn't a real woman and is mimicking real women because it makes her happier. I have more respect if they accept they are trans women and dont try to force being considered the same as being a biological female.

No. 67800

And this is why my kids will probably go to private school. I do NOT want a trans child (a boy wearing girl clothes) in a locker room or bathroom with my daughter. Or playing sports against my daughter such as wrestling or any sport where he has a physical advantage. Just like I wouldn't want any other boy doing those things with my daughter. Just because its a boy wearing a bow with long hair doesnt mean its not a boy anymore. Even puberty blockers dont change that. Guys, imagine a 6 foot autogynephile in a locker room with young girls while they are changing. It's disgusting and shouldnt be allowed or encouraged.

No. 67813

No, I am using the term gender in relation to language, in that "girl and boy" are pronoun alternatives for "male and female" sex. I do not believe gender and sex are separate and they shouldn't be. If someone is female, they're a girl, and they should be described in that way. If someone is male they are a boy. I refuse to believe the misconception that gender=gender roles, because it does not. Your gender roles are affected by your gender, which is your sex.

No. 67815

I agree about transwomen but don't agree about transmen. Even if transmen retain female traits, they are deciding to live as men and want to be privileged, as men are, they have abandoned being feminine to be men and I honestly feel that the reason is because men are privileged more than women. Who wouldn't want to be more privileged?

No. 67830

Me too. Even after straying from the herd I still haven't a single IRL person to talk about this with sanely. It's sad to see so many people make dangerous choices because too many are afraid to gove these people the mental help they need, not physical mutilation. I remember reading somewhere before that even in the slim case the person transitions smoothly, they will still most likely commit suicide because the transition wasn't the answer to their problems in the first place.

Also, on an unrelated note, it's really annoying trying to find another girl to date in such a current political climate….but whatever, at least I have my anime body pillows

No. 67863

Oh so you're stupid. Nevermind.

No. 67895

They're not wrong though, do you speak other languages that aren't english? Like latin root or germanic?

No. 67896

She literally said she doesn't "believe in" the definitions of sex and gender and won't accept that they refer to different things.
Sex refers to the biological state of being male or female.
Gender refers to the characteristics of being male or female with reference to social and cultural differences.


You. are. wrong.

No. 67899

I don't think you belong in this thread…

No. 67900

So because I presented a challenge I need to leave?

For fuck's sake, I was AGREEING with these posts, just that I think there's a difference between sex and gender and to not conflate them.

No. 67907


>citing wikipedia

>calling an anon stupid because she feels a certain way

listen, i am not sure i agree with her either, but gender is a thing -others- use to define you, not that you use to define yourself, you sound worse than she does.

No. 67909

>calling an anon stupid because she feels a certain way
In a conversation where definitions matter, it is pretty dumb to bring bullheaded feelings to the table. The wikipedia is proof that there are conversations about the definitions and its not something I'm making up to be difficult, or because I'm an ESL struggling, which I'm not btw.

>but gender is a thing -others- use to define you, not that you use to define yourself

We're in agreement, and I quote >>67896
>"Gender refers to the characteristics of being male or female with reference to social and cultural differences."

No. 67911

I'd admit gender and sex were different but these people want to change their birth certificate to say a different sex than their biological one and want to be in women's restrooms which were made separate because of biological genital differences. People like Riley Dennis want lesbians to fuck people with dicks even though its called homoSEXUALITY not homogender. Give these people an inch and they want the whole mile

No. 67915

Why are trans rights a feminism issue to begin with? Why is it not an LGBTQ+ exclusive issue? From their own viewpoints "Not all trans people are women" and what issues do trans women face that trans men don't?

No. 67920

>Why are trans rights a feminism issue to begin with? Why is it not an LGBTQ+ exclusive issue?

I imagine its because of the "transwomen are real women and what they face is transmisogyny" mantra but I agree, it should be a LGBT issue as they would have more luck with it if its about rights and not trying to destroy what a lot of feminist movements fought for.

No. 67923

Underrated post.

I almost never see someone calling themselves a TERF unless it's ironic. These women are radical feminists, which excludes men by default. Feminism is for females. Trans "men" are included in radical feminism because they are female. Radfems just don't believe in magical gender identity bullshit.

TERF is also considered a slur by many radfems because not only is the term used to silence their opinions, it is often accompanied by graphic threats of rape and death. Documented on r/terfisaslur if you need proof.

No. 67924

>TERF is also considered a slur by many radfems because not only is the term used to silence their opinions, it is often accompanied by graphic threats of rape and death. Documented on r/terfisaslur if you need proof.

This. Before I even looked into radfem blogs I was very much part of the gender cult and believed all the shit they would say about those blogs. Then I looked at them for myself and found none of it was true. I've never seen a "terf" threaten transwomen with rape/murder just for being transwomen. My sympathy for transwomen went out the window when I see way too many of them threaten to kill and rape others at the drop of a pin. Its disgusting.

No. 67925

But gender and sex aren't different things.

No. 67932

I think gender is connected to the person's sex, but it's much more than just your genitalia. "Woman" has multiple connotations, such as being empathetic, nurturing, (being human), whatever other gender role/stereotype. Whereas female is purely based on biological realities (other animals are female, young girls are female but they're not women, etc.) So yeah you can interchange gender and sex in general, but when having discussions about trans, radfem, sex brain stuff i think it's important to differentiate.

From what i've read, radfems believe that gender (being in a woman role) is something placed on the female sex, thus creating a lower, subservient gender class. It's why girls "become women." (or at least that's how i interpreted the gender/sex definition)

No. 67934

See, I get that, but it's stupid.

Gender roles do come with gender, yes, but gender is decided based on genitalia, and that's how gender is viewed. Regardless of the gender roles that come with that gender, it's still decided based explicitly on your sex. The gender roles can(and have) been changed throughout history, which is what we want, but in order to do that, I feel we should keep gender and sex firmly attached. If we focus on the idea that gender is not sex, there will simply be another word that describes the same thing based on being female.

This is part of the reason why all those tumblr genders are ignored, because gender doesn't matter. People can't simply say change the word the use and present as a female and have female genitalia and be free of their gender roles.

If someone presents as a man they can only retain the privilege of being man until you find out that their genitals are a female's, then they are placed back into the woman category, because that's what makes a woman a woman according to most people.

Gender isn't really important at all when it comes to stereotyping females, because it doesn't start at the gender, it starts at the genitals. Saying "I'm a woman" will make someone feel the same about you as saying "I have a vagina/female genitalia" So I feel in a cultural sense they are exactly the same.

I especially feel this when talking about people who are trans, it's also even more closely connected in the trans community, because being a woman simply means to change your physical appearance and appear to have woman genitals.

If a transwoman identifies themselves as a woman, it is assumed they mean female to people who are communicating with them up to the point that it's found out that they have male genitals or have transitioned. In this sense, using their preferred gender may make them feel more comfortable but unless they look like the sex associated with that gender, they are not treated as that gender.

If you look at it this way, gender and sex are entirely the same, even in the sense that you've explained.

If gender is based on genitalia, and you gain gender roles based on your assigned gender, you cannot escape them simply by changing your gender or ignoring it because people will always associate your gender with your sex, and when they can't gender as a concept will simply change to something else with the same exact issues.

No. 67942

No, that's stupid. If sex and gender are the exact same thing then the word gender would not exist. What's the point. It was originally used to refer to the social roles associated with sex, something we don't get to choose. Feminist preferred "gender roles, gender hierarchy" etc but that got phased out. The word got into the mainstream and became used by prudes to refer to sex interchangbly because of the double meaning of "sex".

Now there are three ways to use it. The radfem way, saying it's the assigned role that you don't have to agree with. We can all just be the reproductive sex we are with a unique personality that shouldn't have to be influenced by our genitals. Or, the libfem way. We all have a "gender identity" i.e. an inherent sense of being a woman, man, neither. Instead of fighting categories, make more. Lastly, the conservative/right wing way that uses it interchangably because they believe men and women are inherently very different and aren't socialised to take on these roles.

The gender/sex distinction is essential in academia revolving around gender and sexuality discourse. It's seen in many fields, not just in gender/woman's studies but it's really important in anthropology and others too. You're being naïve. You can have your own opinion on what you believe gender to be, but in academia we seperate sex and gender, gender referring to gender roles. So whether you do believe it or not, it's important to distinguish between the two. Especially if people from different sides of the debate are talking about it. We're all using the same words but discussing different things!

No. 68068


Interesting because in my language (and in surely many others too) a word equivalent for "gender" does not exist. There's only the "sex" equivalent word and that is all.

Another great example on how our language modifies our view of the world.

No. 68069

My language doesn't have a separate word for sex and gender either. Only one. And this is the case with.. every language besides English probably. The English word "gender" originally referred to the classes of nouns (feminine, neutral or masculine) anyway but people started using it interchangeably with "sex".

I seriously don't get how inventing more "gender identities" is going to solve the problem with gender stereotypes. If anything, it'll just make it more complicated and worse with NEW stereotypes. People should just understand that there are two biological sexes but you can present yourself however the fuck you want while still being fine with your natal sex.

No. 68072

It's already making new stereotypes.

No. 68075

>every language besides English probably.
That's not true.

>The English word "gender" originally referred to the classes of nouns (feminine, neutral or masculine) anyway but people started using it interchangeably with "sex".

That's true. Which is why it's important to clarify the definitions when having these conversations. Personally, I believe that sex (male/female) is the only thing that actually matters whereas gender (masculine/feminine) isn't innate but harmful and oppressive stereotypes which makes me a terf i guess.

No. 68077

But everyone's saying that without 'gender' or the terms 'woman and man' those stereotypes would still be pushed on people who are 'male and female' anyways. It's not the fact that we use man and woman, it's that we differentiate our the female sex from the male, stereotypes will exist as long as males and females do.

No. 68078

but anon, male and female -are- masculine and feminine. even without gender, masculine would apply to the male sex and feminine to the female. how do you people not get this??

No. 68081

people aren't saying we should get rid of the words. they are saying we should stop forcing people to conform to the stereotypes.

is english your first language? in romance languages you are right but it's not the same in germanic languages. women are female and men are male. but women can be masculine and men can be feminine. think of butch lesbians and flamboyant gay guys for example.

No. 68082

But the idea is that the stereotypes will somehow disappear if we add different gender identities in, which they won't. Gender identity is related to sex directly.

No. 68083

there is no need for gender identities. they only enforce the gender stereotypes. the only thing that really matters is sex.

No. 68084

i don't think anyone is saying add different gender identities. gender is also not really an identity. i don't identify as a woman, i just am because i was born female. however, just because i am a woman, doesn't mean I can't be masculine (but if gender = sex then i would ONLY be feminine and can't possibly be masculine in any shape or form)

what the fuck is masculine and feminine anyway? liking trucks vs. dolls? logic vs. emotions? leader vs. subordinate?
honestly gender is such bs

No. 68085

I agree with everything except that people aren't trying to add gender identities. They absolutely are: bi-gender, a-gender, genderqueer and stuff like that. And they are trying to make male/female and man/woman into identities too.

No. 68088


No. 68089

this. i think that stereotypes do have a place in society, but they shouldn't be enforced. the norm is a thing that needs to exist, but it doesn't need to be pushed on everyone. i'd like to get rid of the idea of gender being seperate from sex, so we can just use gendered pronouns to refer to sex instead of gender roles. we need the idea of gendered pronouns in language but not the stereotypes tied to them.

No. 68091

oh yeah im aware of the weirdos, i was just saying that i don't think anyone in this thread is saying add more genders, since it's about radfems, who typically believe that gender isn't an identity but is something that is forced onto the person's biological sex. sorry for the confusion

No. 68115

It's also about the concept of terfs which adds trans into the mix, and a lot of trans weirdos are trying to make a fuckton of genders too.

No. 68120

I don't really get why gender stereotypes need to exist. And gendered pronouns do refer to sex. Only recently, people have started to use them based on gender identity.

No. 68123

Until very recently, I used to be more of a liberal feminist but I've realised that I'm way more aligned with radical feminism. Do you think radical feminism and gender critical ideas are becoming more popular and more mainstream?

No. 68125

Maybe but I think the veil of libfem/transactivist intimidation tactics is lifting so radfems and people of similar opinions are less afraid to come out of the woodwork.

No. 68126

i know and i agree and i want them to stop.

No. 68146

I feel like it's honestly gotten worse, I'm scared to even speak outright in any kid of place that should be seen as a 'safe space' or whatever, I'll only talk about this stuff online anonymously

No. 68152

Honestly, I think the reason libfems and trans activists are becoming so aggressive and violent is because more and more people are starting to see through their ideology.

No. 68278

This, I have a very small choice of friends that I can speak to about this. I've shut down all my social media activity to avoid ever being called out for saying anything that can be interpret as "transphobic" because the trans activists have gotten so vile and aggressive I'm not willing to risk it. They can fucking ruin your life in a day for one thoughtless remark. It's really scary.

No. 68287

We can only hope that is the reason but it seems to me that this shit is a long way from over. Maybe in the 2030s we'll have realised that encouraging this delusion isn't such a bright idea.

No. 68291

The articles marked #gender on the radical feminist site feministcurrent.com are very enlightening. In the discussions in the comment sections, the writers and many of the regular commenters are very adept at clearly and rationally defining gender and sex and defending feminism and women-only spaces against attacks by transactivists.

Radical (and second wave) feminism seeks to abolish gender (because it is a tool of patriarchy) while transactivism reinforces the gender binary. For example, when a MtT states, "I am a woman because I feel like I am," they counter with, "What does being a woman feel like, without resorting to performative gender stereotypes?"

The notion of "non-binary" reinforces the gender binary. People who self-define as non-binary describe themselves as "feeling" like and both a man and a woman or somewhere in between and want the freedom to present themselves as either or both. Again, these statements rely on performative gender stereotypes. The same is true of "agender."

With the rise of modern transactivism, some gay and lesbian activists have proposed separating the LGB from T. After all, LGB are identities of sexuality and not of gender, and the LGB communities have traditionally welcomed all manner of gender expression. Accusations of transphobia against gays and lesbians who are not attracted to transgender individuals offensively redefines gay and lesbian identities.

Transactivism subtly erases butch lesbian identity. Many young FtT who have detransitioned realised that they are really butch lesbians. Previously they had concluded that they must be men since transactivism defines "feeling like a man" as preferring stereotypically male-gendered behaviour and presentation.

In transactivist ideology, sex and gender are discrete until the distinction becomes inconvenient for personal or political gain, at which point they are content to conflate the two. For example, the movement to allow for a third sex classification on state-issued identification and birth certificates as "X" or "non-binary": the designation has historically always referred to biological sex along with other descriptors of innate physical characteristics for the purpose of identification. But rather than push for changing the qualifier from "sex" to "gender" they laud the legislation's unspoken and clumsy redefinition of "sex".

No. 68406

File: 1506815654162.png (207.18 KB, 421x750, received_1680515268627502.png)

Something that I hate about the Anti Terf community is the whole "Terfs are LITERALLY killing trans people". There is no document of a Radfem or Terf assaulting a trans women. But there is alot a violence towards radfems both physically and verbally. Two weeks ago there was a elderly Radfem in londan that was attacked by two transactivists. There's also this porno that's in the making by a "Feminist" porn company. The Twitter was banned but the company behind it still has a Twitter. Instead of complaining about the evil TERFS, Maybe acknowledge the facts that a ton of trans activists are disgusting and violent

No. 68409

One tranny activist literally stabbed two lesbians to death and killed their two sons. But I guess since they're both lesbians and the sons aren't white it doesn't matter.

On the other hand a straight woman is hit and it's an international scandal.

No. 68411

File: 1506822216599.png (918.7 KB, 848x988, Screen-Shot-2016-11-17-at-7.34…)

Not even shocked that this dude murdered two lesbians and thier son.

No. 68412

I think it's funny that you don't get it. It's because it was done by a transsexual that it's not all over most media, not because the victims aren't white.

No. 68422

And don't forget all the "trans activist" transwomen convicted of sexual assault such as Cherno Biko who raped a woman to "forcibly impregnate her". And another transwoman Abuzar Chaudhary organizing a violent assault against TERFs. And the recent drama of Shmorky (a nonbinary transwoman) grooming minors to fit his sexual fetishes. There are so many cases of transwomen harassing and attacking women but none of them make it to the mainstream news outlets because they get categorized as "female on female" assaults.

And as for the issue with lesbians being shamed for not being attracted to transwomen, this is a pretty good look into how men have alwys tried to erase lesbianism. http://www.feministcurrent.com/2017/07/08/lesbianism-attack-though-not-usual-suspects/

No. 68424

lol no, that's the only reason it would be. crazy conservative news stations eat that shit up, but they don't wanna defend lesbians.

No. 68426

Going through the articles was a breath of fresh air but fuck did I get mad reading the comments. Even if the trans apologists were debunked again and again, I still can't believe women are siding with this.

I'll repeat what I keep telling my friends: at this point, I'm more afraid of this side of liberalism than I am of literal nazis. At least the Nazis are clearly identified as violent and "evil" by themselves and everyone else. They don't pretend to be morally correct. The same cannot be said of trans apologists, who pose themselves as "the right side of history" and end up dragging anyone who means well and wants to be inclusive into their dangerous narrative.

No. 68432

I agree 100%. I have been having so many arguments with a friend who thinks that people for the 'right thing' are okay to be idiotic extremists. It is infuriating. They think people like those mentioned ITT are boogeymen but believe and fear any mention of the same types of people on the opposite side. I personally feel that is a much more dangerous way of thinking, because it can be argued that people who can so easily become neo-nazis were already predisposed to that type of thought. Where as people who are violently setting back a good cause are ruining impressionable minds that wouldn't have become so extreme.

No. 68438


This Never Happens is an archive for articles related to violent and sexual crimes committed by males who are posing as or claiming to be women. It is not a discussion group. Members may post articles, links, and brief fact-based descriptions of the incident. It is intended for public viewing and to be a resource to show people who tell women that this never happens.

No. 68439

The controversy over MtT entering women-only spaces dates back decades to the Michigan Womyn's Festival and the rise of Third Wave Feminism during the 1990s.


Liberal Feminism inclusive of Transactivism grew out of Third Wave Feminism. Radical Feminism is a return to Second Wave Feminism and a backlash against the tenets of Liberal Feminism that dilute feminism and redefine "woman" by including transgender.

Dyke March Not Dick March!

Every year more and more lesbians decline to attend their local Pride celebration's Dyke March due to its invasion by "translesbians".



No. 68440

Browsing this group made me disgusted. That's it, I hate anyone pro-trans. No exceptions.

No. 68449

>They don't pretend to be morally correct.
I realized recently why transactivists bother me so much, when there's so many shitty people out there. And it's because the whole thing reminds me of religion. It's a cult-like, blind belief in something they consider morally correct but really isn't, and they are extremely forceful in their attempts to indoctrinate people or punish them for not believing. And the way they associate it so closely with things that ARE actually morally correct (fighting racism, misogyny, homophobia etc) makes it hard to isolate and criticize the issue.

No. 68458

File: 1506902640063.jpg (54.48 KB, 500x533, just stop.jpg)

I've noticed a lot of people who do not identify with being terf or even feminists speak out against transwomen in the same way terfs do. But when transwomen spout shit like pic related its easy to see why.

No. 68459

fuck, I hate this so much. Such a clear demonstration of how they're just enforcing and clinging to gender roles

No. 68460

Exactly. I've yet to see anyone explain gender that doesnt reort to this.

No. 68461

Wait….did they post this on a LESBIAN FACEBOOK GROUP? Un fucking believable man. I don't even get that upset about the trans community as a lot of people in this thread, though I understand where you guys are coming from, but this? Going into a space meant for females and slyly suggesting that they aren't female enough? Fuck right off.

A lesbian wearing flannel with a buzzcut is a still a woman. Trying to insinuate that she isn't because she doesn't wear bows and exhibit 'compassion and sensitivity (read: submission) is fucked up.

No. 68462

>Going into a space meant for females
If they were here they would be calling ou transphobic and cis-scum. This whole thing has gotten so rediculous and they are angry that people are seeing them for what they really are.

Rather than make their own spaces they seem hellbent on destroying others-I used to be sympathetic to these people but now? They can go fuck themselves.

No. 68463

> they would be calling you transphobic

Yes, they probably would. But I don't even necessarily mean that they shouldn't be allowed there or any shit like that, but if it was indeed a facebook group meant for lesbians, don't waltz into the group and make a post like that. That's some bullshit. The one and only thing that bothers me about the trans community (personally, though I'm starting to see other convincing arguments), is their blatant misogyny and need to put biological women down in order to prop themselves up. Just like another group that we already have to deal with this shit from on a daily basis….CIS MEN.

Sorry for sperging out but wow. Go make that post in a trans group if you want to insult women for not being your idea of feminine. That's some catty shit.

No. 68465

File: 1506905551609.png (563.5 KB, 568x1882, 1506519308160.png)

No but this is the point. As mentioned in the transwomen thread, this is the reason they are getting hate. They do this constantly.

>is their blatant misogyny and need to put biological women down in order to prop themselves up

Again this is a resonable response and the reason many people dislike them, not the made up shit about women being jealous of transwomen etc. Hell i'm not even a feminist but this is one thing I agree with terfs on. I''ve seen even the most open and liberal feminists get shit on. Like with pic related, even when they are invited to join all they seem to want to do is destroy because they are angry at women for being women. As you say, its misogyny.

No. 68466

lmao @ them not even trying to hide their hatred for women. The very thing that they are trying to become.

God they might even be more aggressive and shitty towards women than a majority of cis men are.

No. 68468

This is so depressing. I just looked into the festival and it seemed like such an awesome place, why do these people have to fucking ruin it? Cis men went the whole 40 years without trying to infiltrate this festival but fucking trans women couldn't accept women wanting ONE even where they could gather with other women who've had the same life experiences. Women experience so much based on their socialization an anatomy, to deny women the ability to share their experiences seems blatantly misogynistic and/or a selfish manifestation of weird jealousy.
I get it if they feel upset about it, but the fact that they pressed so hard to completely stop the entire event forever just because they couldn't attend is so fucking selfish and entitled.
Actually the more I think about it the more it seems like a silencing tactic, especially because this event was a major gathering point for lesbians

No. 68469

>blatantly misogynistic and/or a selfish manifestation of weird jealousy

Back in the day when I was defensive of transwomen these accusations seemed obsurd to me. After seeing all the shit they write tho its not hard o believe.

>I get it if they feel upset about it

How so?

>Actually the more I think about it the more it seems like a silencing tactic, especially because this event was a major gathering point for lesbians

This is the only reason I can think of why they would be upset by it, and it just shows how entitled they are. I dont feel bad being excluded from lesbian groups because i'm not a lesbian. Some groups need their own space thats not discrimination, the fact these idiots feel the need to shoe horn themselves intoo everything women related when most women dont even do that shows how fucking deluded they are and how different their lives are from us.

No. 68470

please reply next time.

No. 68471

whoops my bad, i thought i did but i can see now its not there, this reply was for >>68468


No. 68476

To be honest, those other fights are dragged into it quite easily since they all share the "identity above all else" aspect, which is problematic (rofl I hate this word but don't have a better one) on its own. Once you take someone's traits as both a requirement and a free pass to talk about a subject, you lose all objectivity and you no longer side with the truth. You're right - it's very much like a religion both in principle and execution, and it even comes with a salvation of sorts ("being a good ally".)

>The very thing that they are trying to become.
They're not trying to become women like us. They're trying to become their own idea of a feminine being that's heavily fetishized, plastic, "better at sex", "more appealing to men". An ideal of femininity, as opposed to "a woman". Not too different from drag queens, I might add, at least not as far as looks are concerned

No. 68491

>They're not trying to become women like us. They're trying to become their own idea of a feminine being that's heavily fetishized, plastic, "better at sex"

Exactly, and this is why its not surprising a lot of them are mra's.

No. 68492

>who would you consider more female, a biological male with a huge/fragile ego and fake tits or an actual fucking female???

No. 68493

So much this excellent essay:


Enter the newest and loudest cause: transgender activism. Beneath the lavish media praise, the trans movement is hiding a litany of self-annihilating logic and regressive attitudes that merit public conversation. Aside from changing language to suit their subjective identity, the push to deny women sex-segregated protections, and the aggressive support for the transitioning of children, the often overlooked reality to this activism is the movement’s blatantly aggressive homophobia.

No. 68515

This screenshot makes me want to fucking vomit. It summarizes how sexist and entitled these transwomen really are.

No. 68550

I won't be rude to them or express my opinion about it, but i secretly think it's a mental disorder and no matter how well they pass, most of them are terrible and still act like men (as in whining lesbians won't fuck them, like no, i don't want your chinese bootleg pussy, and i'm not sorry in the slightest for it)

No. 68551

>They're not trying to become women like us. They're trying to become their own idea of a feminine being that's heavily fetishized, plastic, "better at sex"
All of this, for at least 90% of them that's probably what they really are.
They fetishize being women like crazy,I once saw a thread about those fuckers being happy they got catcalled or even groped or just guys being nice to them because "i pass desu uwu".
Just fuck those degenerates.

No. 68561

File: 1507130893951.png (576.25 KB, 1080x876, IMG_20171004_112718.png)

The majority of them don't even pass lmao. Most of them still have big fucking beak noses and stubble.The fact that "Butch transwomen" is now a term these fuckers use is so gross.Its just an excuse for them to put no effort into looking female but still get asspats from the transactivists

No. 68568

That's a fuckin beard, right? Did someone….just tell someone with a beard that they pass as a cis woman?

No. 68576

>butch transwoman

what like, "danielle" muscato? fuckin lol

No. 68578

Yup. Man has a full beard and everything. He has a Tumblr where he argues with the "ess Jay dubbaews" and "TERFS". He also calls himself a "Tiny underaged slut", is into lolicon, and is a huge fan of known hentai artist/Pedophile Shadman. His Tumblr is Not-your-safe-space if any of you want to cringe at this ugly fucking creep

No. 68580

what was YOUR peak trans moment, ladies?
mine was when i got groomed by a much older e-popular disgusting freak who simultaneously fetishized and preyed on me being a baby lesbian. said freak emotionally abused and gaslit me to an absolutely insane degree. i didn't realize just how much he had broken me down or just how predatory he was until he was openly toying with my mental state while he knew i was institutionalized for having the worst major trauma and stress induced episode/breakdown i have had in my entire life.
speaking from experience, these deranged animals are a serious danger to closeted/newly out/baby lesbians. they know how to wear a caricature of femininity like a veil to hide their true nature and intentions, and since most (non tumblr indoctrinated) women consider them men, they can appear at first glance to be a satisfactory compromise between one's true lesbian desire for women, and the ever-looming pressure to suppress that desire and be with a man. this is exactly why i ended up dating an array of them, and how i myself became indoctrinated into the trans cult, for a time.
i feel particularly bad for how i treated the women who tried to warn me about/save me from these predators. i absolutely undeniably threw them under the bus and smeared them because i was afraid of the rage fit repercussions of my "girl"friend at the time, who had intense paranoia and a violent temper that made him very adept at turning barely legal baby lesbians into lifeless husks of their former selves who existed solely to fulfill his sexual pleasure and personal needs. i won't go into explicit detail because this is, imo, the most sickening part of this ordeal, but… surprise, surprise! the older man who groomed me was a closet pedophile and used me as a less risky surrogate for a child to groom.
apologies for the blogpost, but i thought i could offer some insight as to how these pieces of shit operate, and why young girls are often eager to be with and/or defend them.
this person was my first experience with a MtT and every man i have dated since him has only further affirmed that this is their true nature.

No. 68586

>>68580 peak trans for me was two certain incidents. First one was when some transactivists started calling Malala Yousafzai (A women who has actually fought for women's rights) a TERF and SWERF for no reason other than her saying that prostitution in her country was dangerous. Second peak trans moment was when a trans women said that trans women cannot rape cis women because trans women are opressed and only they can be raped. As someone who currently is trying to cope with terrible PTSD from sexual abuse, it was so offensive and disgusting to read. These dudes are beyond dangerous

No. 68612

Mine too, but also when it came out that laverne cox defended a transwoman who brutally raped and murdered a girl, and then seeing what over public transwomen (like janet mock who said being raped was a right of passage and made them a woman)

No. 68614

>like janet mock who said being raped was a right of passage and made them a woman

That seriously makes me want to not live anymore. What the fuck is wrong with people? Does she not realize how harmful that is to propagate? Fuck.

No. 68620

I've made some effort to get more familiar with feminist thought and communities. There are some clever theorists, but maybe 90% of activity online is cancerous trash.

The majority of feminists have no praxis at all beyond participating in flame wars and being mean to people on blogs. They couldn't recommend any legal or institutional change, they would just tell you that the world would be a better place if everybody agreed with them and avoided using hurtful terminology. These flamewar feminists get mad at PUAs, incels, conservative Christians, other feminists, and (if they're TERFs) trannies. There's nothing dignified about it, they just like feeling righteous while they wage cyber bullying campaigns and getting mad at spergs using the term friendzone. I've never seen any activist group as catty or cannibalistic, and the entire movement is a stream of life ruining campaigns directed against one woman or another. TERFs are unusually bad offenders here.

It all comes off as disgusting. There's no concern for the wellbeing of anybody, it's just outrage addiction, sanctimoniousness, and the kind of contempt for weakness you see among neo-Nazis.

Feminism, in its popular manifestation, validates almost everything Hoffer said about mass movements.

No. 68625

Just about anything you read online will be pretty toxic. It's better to judge feminism by what it accomplishes, and not by the rants of mad people on Tumblr and Facebook.

No. 68626

What has it accomplished in the last decade?

No. 68629

>There are some clever theorists, but maybe 90% of activity online is cancerous trash.

Er, hello, welcome to the internet. Thats pretty much true for all things. You must be new.

No. 68630

I actually used to be a huge trans activist and quite frankly believed I was trans myself. In a nutshell:
>1st step: I saw all the Tumblr transtrenders. That was step 1. talking about all the shitty genders they came up wth.
>2nd step: I saw all the gross ass transwomen preying on women and trying to take over their spaces
>3rd step: I saw how parents decided that their fucking 2 YEAR OLD is trans and they wanted to raise them in their "real gender"
>Peak moment: I realized how the trans movement practices homophobia and homosexual erasure and then finally came to terms with my own homosexuality.

This whole trans religion is so fucking dangerous to young people. I feel sick every time I see 20-year old butch lesbians in denial getting HRT and SRS because the society is more accepting of a transman being straight than a woman being masculine and a lesbian.

No. 68633

I-is there a term for a standard feminist that is against tranny shit without being 'radical'?

No. 68634

a feminist.
i dont even know why they are trying make lgbt issues a feminist issue they are seperate things

No. 68636

>>68634 k but if you simply call yourself a feminist, you're gonna have dumbass liberal Feminists say "But feminism is for everyone! Real Feminists include trans women" because for some reason people think the movement created for women's rights has to include every single fucking person in the world

No. 68638

It's really frustrating that there's no established medium between liberal and radical feminism. I agree with radical feminism in terms of the gender issues discussed here but I still want to be able to enjoy some kinky bdsm shit without having it analyzed as some bullshit effect of patriarchy. Moderate feminism when

No. 68640


Well just ignore them. Any group is going to have a bunch of idiots and a-holes that make the rest of us look bad, and that includes feminism. Fight for what YOU believe in.

No. 68655

>moderate feminism when?
Soon, I hope.

Anyone else just wanna punch those "i'm anti feminist u guise lol look i'm so speshul" girls?
I get not wanting to be associated to 3rd wave feminism, which can get retarded, but without feminism they probably wouldn't even be where they are right now. Are they just desperate to be "not like the other girls" or…?

No. 68656

Agreeing with this. I dont get why it's a part of feminism. I don't even get why "T" is a part of LGBT. It should just be LGB, being a tranny isn't a sexual orientation, gtfo already.

No. 68657

>Anyone else just wanna punch

Thanks, you're a big help.

No. 68664

Internet feminism is unusually bad, even for the internet. Also, the movement has some leftover mainstream legitimacy it doesn't really deserve anymore (at least imo).

No. 68665

>Internet feminism is unusually bad, even for the internet.

I used to think this before i discovered a lot of times anti-feminists pretend to be feminists and spout stupid things (like that one "womans" who wanted to decrease the worlds men population by 90%, turned out to be a mra)

>Also, the movement has some leftover mainstream legitimacy it doesn't really deserve anymore (at least imo).

How so?

No. 68666

that's probably true of a number of them. they still influence other dumb younger girls to agree with them. even shit like that that's fake always incites others since it gives them a voice. those kinds of mra idiots are dangerous.

No. 68670

>(like that one "womans" who wanted to decrease the worlds men population by 90%, turned out to be a mra)
I really mean more in terms of being repetitive than evil, and in terms of cattiness. Tumblr and twitter feminists get mad about the same shit everyday. Add in all of the antifeminist autism and the whole scene is a vortex of outrage which produces nothing at all.

>How so?

In mainstream media. Not necessarily with normal people.

No. 68671

Feminism has been completely fucked by the third wave. Now pretty much everyone below a certain age associates it with slutwalks and shilling for the porn industry/prostitution etc.

Not really sure what can be done about it at this stage.

No. 68673

I agree with you to an extent. And I know this will piss someone off, but I fear that the extreme wings of the third wave have only made things worse for women. I feel like there's more misogyny around than ever, and I worry that the third wave has partially encouraged that. It's like no one takes women seriously anymore, and now they want to boomerang us back to the 50s where women ~knew their place.~

It scares me a bit sometimes.

No. 68674

It's because respecting women has literally become a meme. If you even talk about the idea seriously you're bashed as a white knight if you're a guy, or labelled a feminazi if you're a woman.

No. 68676

Yes, and also the fact that they think "respecting" means groveling and worshipping women. It doesn't. We want basic human decency and base level respect. But no, women have to do 5 times more to earn even a modicum of the respect that they would automatically give to another man.

No. 68677

Bless this fucking thread. I'm so happy people are finally talking and exposing the bullshit about the trans cult.

No. 68678

the mainstream media really latches onto this shit too, because it plays out like a fucking freak show.

No. 68679

> I feel like there's more misogyny around than ever, and I worry that the third wave has partially encouraged that.
Anon, I hate to break it to you, but misogyny has increased because men literally hate women standing up for themselves or prioritizing anything over appealing to men. Not because feminism is wrong and warrants hate. It scares me too, but that's just because men are scary.

No. 68681


When did the Third Wave mutate into the morass it is today? In retrospect will this period be regarded as a time of upheaval or transition in feminism with the split between liberal and radical factions?

I came of age at the cusp of the Third Wave in the early 90s. RE/search Publication's Angry Women was my guidebook. I had a subscription to Bitch Magazine. I (stage) dove into Riot Grrl after feeling marginalised by male-dominated Grunge. At the same time, my bookshelves were stocked with the works of many Second Wave writers who were well-respected, if not still revered, by Third Wavers.

Androgyny was simply androgyny and not codified into an endless myriad of "genders". Gender expression was something a person did as opposed to who someone was.

Sage for being a grumpy old. I used to be with "it" but then they changed what "it" was. And now what is "it" seems weird and scary to me.

No. 68692

i don't think it's just that, many people who would have been feminists or allies are becoming really turned off my extreme feminism more than in the past. i mean, of course this was always the case, but i've known more and more people that are scared of saying they're feminist now than even 10 years ago.

No. 68695

Without an actual feminist political party, with organized leadership, feminism will always be represented by the dumbest person who makes a YouTube video or a Tumblr post.

It can't be helped. All grassroots movements will eventually be seen as too extreme for the average person unless they have a charismatic public figure to control the narrative.

No. 68697

that's true. and actually i feel like we can probably attribute much of the super negative light feminism is in to the internet. before, these people didn't get much headway, but the internet is propelling them and mainstream media is using them for sensationalism. it all makes sense.

No. 68704

Do any of you know any good Radfem/Terf websites or forums? I used to use Tumblr tags but now it's just full of libfems whining and acting like victims.

No. 68705

Go through block lists on tumblr, most on them are either radical feminists or lesbians or both

No. 68706

No. 68733

Again, that is because if you admit to being a feminist, men fucking hate you. Most girls want to be liked by men, it takes some guts to be open about your opinions and get shit on for them. And many of them will pull the 'not like other girls' shit because it's an easy way to get brownie points.

Men will never, ever respect feminism regardless of the form it takes because women pursuing their own interests is contrary to what they want from us.

No. 68734

It's not as simple as not having guts. There's been so much cringe made readily available by the internet that a lot of potential feminists avoid the movement just out of second-hand embarrassment.

One of the reasons why the Tea Party ended up successful was because they had a core of radio hosts with big enough voices to drown out the average person. If a normal person were exposed to Tea Party ideas, chances are that it will be relatively organized propaganda straight from Levin, Hannity, or Rush.

If a normal person is exposed to feminism, it's probably via memes and gifs of college students screaming. Even in this thread, girls are asking for links for feminist website.

If we can't even find them for ourselves easily, what's a teenager going to do? They'll only read angry, poorly written posts on Facebook and Tumblr by a girl who hates men since that's what gets reblogs and shared for laughs. At that moment, the young girl, who probably likes her dad or her brother, is lost forever until a close feminist friend can bring them back from the dark.

Feminism needs a Rush Limbaugh or at least an official political structure that can do damage control in national media everytime a idiot gets thousands of shares and eyes on her post.

No. 68735

And that subtle implication that those uninformed girls are cowardly and don't have guts is not helpful in the least. The focus should be on persuading them even harder. If they are gutless, that shouldn't be an obstacle to getting feminist ideas into them if they are packaged the right way.

One of the most interesting things about Mien Kampf is the inside look at the Nazi's branding strategy and how they managed to break up the blocks of Marxism and flip the socialist German worker into German Nationalism despite them being two opposing ideologies. Feminism doesn't have nearly as big a handicap as that, so there's no excuse for being a disorganized mess that can't even deliver proper messages to teenagers.

But instead of finding a way to make a good case for feminism to those gutless girls, too many feminists just pout and make fun them for not instantly being pulled into our fold.

No. 68736

That is definitely not what I meant to imply, though I can see how it sounded that way. I meant it more like 'it takes an impressive amount of guts', it's something I respect and admire but couldn't reasonably expect from the majority of people. It's normal and natural to favour being liked and keeping the peace over picking fights. I don't have the guts for it a lot of the time, feminist issues are just not an argument I enjoy getting into (in real life at least), especially with hostile men.

I'm just saying it's not feminism's fault. Men hate the idea of it more than any specific message it sends, no matter how reasonable and fair the message might be. Of course, there are always ways to improve how it's communicated and the impression people get of it, but it's not true that people are against feminism just because of the crazy ones with the biggest soapboxes. It goes deeper than that, even the most innocuously conveyed feminist messages get negative responses.

No. 68767

What experiences have you all had with trans men?

I knew 3 during my time in high school and 2 of them were emotionally manipulative. They all seemed to fetishize gay men.

Sorry for the repost. Turns out I'm blind.

No. 68769

I almost transitioned in high school so I spent a lot of time around FtM people, I'm obviously going to be biased here but I haven't seen nearly the same level of fetishism and outright misogyny as in MtF people, although you're right about there being some fetishization of gay men - I think that's very distinct among younger people as well. It is definitely a result of misogyny though, something that has been very internalized. I guess in a way it's more understandable to me, because honestly if you have the choice of being a butch woman or a man, of course being a man is going to seem a lot more appealing to some people (on account of living in a largely patriarchal society), especially those who have experienced a lot of misogyny or even sexual abuse.

No. 68772

Knew one that was friends with my boyfriend. Pretty much was a self important dickhead. We were friendly with each other. He used to constantly post about his political beliefs on Facebook and fight with people who disagreed.He also bragged about his transition often. He ended up telling me he didn't care if my boyfriend killed himself after I told him my boyfriend was suicidal. I stopped talking to him and he ended up deleteing me a month later after I liked a Ben Shapiro post. Another "Transboy" I know is my boyfriend's sisters best friend. "He" refers to "himself" as a girl when it benefits "him". For example when "he" wants to fuck someone or when it benefits"his" political views. Overall the transboys I've known are shitheads

No. 68779

You really hit the nail on the head with this one, anon.
There seem to be two types of main motives for FTMs. The ones filled with internalized misogyny/lesbophobia and possibly sexual trauma, and the ones fetishizing the fuck out of "gay culture" with some of the mentioned features thrown in the mix.

>Type 1-a: I hate women so much because women are dim-witted and weak and I hate being sexually harassed, allow me to become male so I don't have to be such a weak piece of shit! My daddy issues basically control my life and I never had a healthy relationship with other girls in high school so I let them twist my vision of femininity!

>Type 1-b: I'm lesbian/bi but I can't come to terms with my sexuality, I want to become a male so I can date girls without being horribly self-aware and afraid of being shunned! My parents and/or community probably hates homosexuals so they're going to encourage me into becoming "straight".

>Type 2-a: YASSS SLAYYYYYY omg I JUST saw that RuPaul episode, I'm SO friggin hyped to do a new drag queen makeup test also check out my new pastel coords uwu Gawd I love being a gay male because they get to be sassy and girly while still being likable, but when a woman does it, it's embarrassing! Gonna CROSSplay my fav girl character next cuz I'm such a trap! Remember - women lusting after men is icky, but gay men doing it is amazing!

>Type 2-b: I resent my female sexuality so the only way I get to vent out my pent-up sexual frustration is by presenting as an attractive man, usually as the K-Pop/Anime/Tumblr inspired idealized version of a male. I'm also a combination of all the beforementioned types because I probably do this as a way to escape sexual harassment, the stereotypical social role of a woman, the negative connotations associated with womanhood and my possible homosexuality!

So all of their problems actually stem from them hating the social role placed upon a woman and want to escape it, which is why so many tumblrinas are "nonbinary" or their view of being male is inspired by the glorified version found in media meant for women.

No. 68787

I know one sorta transman. The thing is she likes to be called by her male name, is dating a chick and dresses/does her hair like a guy, but doesn't have preferred pronouns or whatever and doesn't really advertise herself as a transman or anything. I know because we've worked on a few projects together but I'm fairly certain most people don't even realise she's trans.

I've however met several transwomen, they were all equally horrible and in your face with their 'femininity'

No. 68791


How about the increasing number of FtT who enter relationships with confirmed gay men and then get pregnant and give birth?

And don't forget the new terms we must adopt so that we don't trigger their dysphoria or make them feel excluded such as "pregnant person" and "chest-feeding".

If you have gender dysphoria, why are you having vaginal intercourse with a man and getting pregnant?

Woops, I'm sorry, what is the new term for "vaginal intercourse"? "Manginal intercourse"?

No. 68794


>Type 2-b

The tumblr fakebois?


Girls who pretend to be effeminate boys who often dress as girls but who do not experience dysphoria nor pursue transition or even bind. Gender is purely about clothing and accessories and which pronouns you use on social media.

What was wrong with dressing androgynously? For all their retro love for the 80s, androgyny isn't speshul enough, I guess.

No. 68801

TFW you find yourself agreeing with Piers Morgan.


Tabitha had to defend a suggestion from Susanna that she was 'dressing up', and said that how she looks on each day is important.

'It's not dressing up… It’s dressing up according to who I am that day,' she said. 'It’s important to create a bold identity.'

Tabitha explained that there is no equal share when it comes to whether she is a man or woman on the day. During her appearance Tabitha said that she is often 'confused' when she wakes up until her brain settles in to the particular gender of the day.

'There's no percentage at all – you just get what you’re given on the day,' she said.

Confirming that she was born female she added: 'I accept it but I wasn’t particularly happy about it. 'That is the difficult thing about being trans.. Sorry gender fluid. The reason I said trans is because I have many trans friends,' she said to clarify the mistake.

Piers - who said he had never met a person like Tabitha - questioned whether her biological father transitioning to a woman was the root of her 'confusion' over her gender.

'I'm not confused about being male and female, it just takes a couple of minute to work out,' she replied.


No. 68816

> hating the social role placed upon a woman and want to escape it
Yep, this is exactly what happened for me (>>68769)
I started questioning my gender shortly after being sexually assaulted, which was coincidentally around the age where girls start to develop sexual feelings in the first place. Female sexuality and genetalia felt horrifying to me as my only experience with that stuff was completely devastating, and I felt that being female was condemning me to a lifetime of this. Of course I wasn't putting two and two together, but I started having feelings that I desperately wanted to be a man and to have male genitals. Couple that with already being a tomboyish girl who was regularly told I looked like I boy and you have the perfect recipe for FtT. I imagine this happens to a lot of people - actually, I know from hearing their stories - and it's a really fucking tragedy IMO.
I was fortunate enough to have a therapist who was an older woman and still had "radical" feminist ideas. She really encouraged me to look at the root what was causing me to reject my feminine identity. IMO this kind of therapy should be the first thing that people with gender identity undergo. It took a long time, but with the patience and understanding of a professional I was able to come to terms with my identity and am now really happy being female. I know I'm an anecdote but at the very least this approach should be attempted before just delving into transitioning and hormones and all that, because more often than not there's an underlying cause that can be worked out.
Christ I wrote a lot sorry for the wall of text

No. 68823

Thank you for sharing that.

No. 68828


The increase in people transitioning without the requirement of psych evaluations or even a DSM 5 diagnosis of dysphoria is due informed consent model of care has been replacing the gatekeeping model in recent years.

Medical journal reading:

Op-ed reading:

No. 68832

> IMO this kind of therapy should be the first thing that people with gender identity undergo.
Exactly. Some detransitioners have said that they never went through any sort of counselling, the doctors just kind of listened to them and admitted them to HRT and SRS. It wasn't until some time after transitioning they realized that the root cause for their body dysphoria was in a traumatic experience or other psychological issues. And the trans activists are demanding that all counseling should be removed and people should have access to transitioning whenever they please.

I used to be the same as you anon, I was sure that I had the "wrong kind of brain" and believed it was fully a biological thing and transitioning would be the only way to medicate it. I swallowed the "unless you transition, you will kill yourself!" narrative hook, line and sinker. I was afraid for my life. But after a long while of self-exploring and overall observing the trans ideology with a more critical way of thinking I started to realize that my problems with my gender were stemming from early childhood rejection, sexual harassment, abusive relationships and internalized homophobia. After that my gender dysphoria started to fade little by little, and soon I realized I was completely comfortable being a woman.

These stories are so ridiculously common and I've seen transmen straight out admit that they're disgusted with the idea of being a woman due to being traumatized but still believe transitioning is the only way to go. What girl doesn't freak out when her body changes during puberty and she starts bleeding from her vagina? Female sexual biology and sexuality in general is still being a taboo to some degree and women have to suffer through regular acts of degrading sexism all the time. It's no wonder we grab at the opportunity to become a man.

No. 68835

I know a sweet ftm who I thought was just short, extremely babyfaced guy until he politely asked me to stop calling him that and explained. His subdued behavior and the way he dresses in a smart casual way gives him a passing vibe rather than his natural looks, but I think he works out and might have had top surgery or wear a binder. Instead of his gender being his whole personality he just talks about normal stuff like films etc. He doesn't fit into either of >>68779 types as he also is a supportive boyfriend and has lesbian friends, so doesn't come across as misogynistic or homophobic. 10/10 would date
But then I've seen lots of that "Type 2" grossly gay-fetishistic yaoi play and misogynist behavior from fakeboi types at anime conventions who absolutely never pass because they wear slogan pronoun Tshirts and pastel kawaii stuff. I don't have a problem with androgyny or men wearing makeup, I love the idea of breaking gender norms with fashion! But the insistence that they aren't a woman because they don't adhere to their own internalized stereotypes of a woman whilst conversely insisting that gender is a social construct so boys can have vaginas and wear lipstick just doesn't make any sense. I agree that those kinds of mtf seem to be more interested in 2edgy wish fulfillment coupled with internalized misogyny instead of 'just being a man'.

My experiences with mtf are the same.
I have a close mtf friend who sometimes I have to agree to disagree with, especially on what it is to 'feel like a woman' and I struggle with seeing them as a lesbian woman after all these years of seeing them as my straight guy friend. However our friendship has been unaffected by and I want to support them as they begin to transition. I also used to hang out with a nice mtf at a weekly group who clearly wasn't a biological woman and similarly there's a three obvious mtf where I work but they act like normal professional people, and as none of them have ever brought up the topic of being trans I have never questioned them about it. I respect them for it because it must be hard being stared at all the time when you're just trying to do your job, and I appreciate that they are more than just their gender.

However I have also had lots of run ins with stereotypical mtf with rainbow socks, neon lipstick with bare ungroomed face and dyed pixie cuts who scream about their girldicks, and those types are always obnoxious as fuck no matter their genitals. It's not even the visual part of them, I've seen unrelated events be overtaken with them preaching about their sexual validation as a woman via catcalls as if that's in any way comparable to being a woman or other fetishistic crusades and seen them try to hit on much younger girls in a predatory way that implies it's transphobic to reject them. I'm also acquaintances with two "nonbinary" guys who are the embodiment of male entitlement. One is literally always manspreading as he rants about hating white males, whilst his SJW girlfriend obidiently nods and cooks his vegan tendies.

As always, it is the crazies that scream the loudest. I'm definitely gender critical but the trans people that I am friends with are just people getting on with their lives and don't seem to be sucked into to the weird 'gender is a social construct except girls wear pink bimbo implants and boys wear blue snapbacks' rhetoric. It seems like trans people might be facing similar fracturing as the lib/rad feminism, with the relatively normal ones being drowned out by the autogynephiles shrieking about chestfeeding and ladyboners.

No. 68848

>I know a sweet ftm who I thought was just short, extremely babyfaced guy until he politely asked me to stop calling him that and explained

uuh, what?

No. 68854

Do any of you think autogynephilia is real? I believe it's real and extremely obvious that lots of "Mtf" are just autogynophiles but lots of transactivists say there is "no proof or scientific evidence".

No. 68855

I like to read about it. I always thought it was lousy bullshit but then actually meeting and seeing the way (mostly mtf) the people act has made me really genuinely think it's the case that this is the real issue. Tbh it's the most realistic explanation so anyone against it is going to try to burn it to the ground

No. 68859

uhhhhh, are you sure she's not just a butch lesbian and not a ftm?

No. 68867

No. 68877

it's a fucking fetish, that's like saying there's no proof furry is real. besides, the evidence speaks for itself

No. 68881

there's absolutely proof, you can definitely prove a sexual fetish, it's transgenderism you can't prove.

No. 68886

I used to joke about him being a short babyfaced guy because I'm an asshole. Eventually he quietly explained the reason is that he wasn't born biologically male.
They explained they are ftm

No. 68890

>trying to pass as male
>actively explaining they're not and denying your assertion that they are

and people think trans is real.

No. 68894

>Asks someone to stop making jokes that make them uncomfortable, and gives context.

He's probably already insecure enough as it is, and >>68886 charactertized her own behavior as assholeish.

Of all the stories in this thread, it's amazing that you chose this one to be a bitch about.

No. 68895

sorry i offended you over your mental disorder, anon. sit the fuck down

No. 68905

You seem pretty shook up that someone called you out on your idiocy, robot.

No. 68906

>tranny sympathizer in a terf thread
>calls people robots when called out


No. 68909

Not that anon, but please leave. Maybe your FtT friend is different but most trans, especially MtT are insufferable and go giddy over passing so someone getting upset about passing seems very suspect.

No. 68912

you're right, i call myself a woman's liberationist instead

No. 68916

how the hell do i find a girlfriend that doesn't buy into queer theory? i go on sites like her and tinder and its all ~pansexual kinky queer femmes~, nonbinary they/them genderfucks, or men. putting "no dick" in my bio would probably get my banned because it hurts mens fee fees lol

No. 68918

>Not that anon

Sure thing, dude.
You're acting just as retarded anyway because this is about an FtM and not MtF.

No. 68920


Bisexual here, this is EXACTLY why I ended up just settling with a dude (lol I don't mean "settle" settle, but you know what I mean). Every female on an online dating site was like the EXACT sjw stereotype you see on TheRedPill.

No. 68936

I'm the anon with the trans friend, not them.
It's your choice to disagree with trans completely, I also have concerns, but telling people to leave just because their gender critical ideas aren't exactly as radical as yours is childish. It's difficult enough to ask questions anywhere without being completely dismissed as being worse than hitler etc but now we're not allowed to talk because our nuanced viewpoints aren't terfy enough for your completely black and white ones?
Ignore or argue by all means, but trying to silence opposition makes you as bad as those trans types that dismiss every criticism as transphobic

No. 68942

File: 1507824287779.jpg (262.06 KB, 1069x1120, Screenshot_20171012-105607.jpg)

Anyone know the real details on this?

No. 68944

Fucking disgusting. Children aren't allowed to make other decisions for themselves, and yet this life and body changing decision based on childish whim is okay? What the fuck?

No. 68946

Does it works the other way too? You know, like when parents force a different identity to their kid only because their tastes differ from "normal" gender roles and stupid shit like that. Like when a boy likes pink and a girl likes trucks.

No. 68949

i looked the law up. it's ontario based, not canada-wide and the gender stuff isn't singled out as a criteria, it's part of a bunch, and it relates to adoption and social services to children, not really taking kids away


>Differences include: the current Act includes the child’s cultural background in this list while the new Act includes the child’s cultural and linguistic heritage; the current Act includes the religious faith in which the child is being raised while the new Act includes the child’s race, ancestry, place of origin, colour, ethnic origin, citizenship, family diversity, disability, creed, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity and gender expression.

>The society having care of a child shall choose a residential placement for the child that,

>where possible, respects the child’s race, ancestry, place of origin, colour, ethnic origin, citizenship, family diversity, creed, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity and gender expression;

>While parents may need help in caring for their children, that help should give support to the autonomy and integrity of the family unit and, wherever possible, be provided on the basis of mutual consent.

>The least disruptive course of action that is available and is appropriate in a particular case to help a child, including the provision of prevention services, early intervention services and community support services, should be considered.

the news sounds kinda sensationalist. it's not like someone will take your kid away because you refuse to call them xirs and solaireselves

No. 68955

It sounds like they're extending child's autonomy to be less focused on religious based stuff. So…are the going to get rid of other fucked up religious based shit too? Like genital cutting?

No. 68956

No. 68984

Kek, I just came from /leftypol/ trying to discuss trans agenda there but got called a trans hater, evil TERF, reactionary conservative and got threatened of rape and gulag. Why left wing males agree so much with trans bullshit? Is it because it makes radical feminism look bad in their eyes so it gives them fuel to hate women even more? Is it because deep down they want tranny dick? I will never know.

No. 68992

sorry anon, you can stay here among friends.

No. 68993

Most men care more about other men than they care about women. It's not really that surprising.

No. 68997


Honestly, I think it's just another sign of how fucking alien female lives are to them. I would have thought that conclusion was like, over the top radfem nonsense a few years back, but at this point, after knowing wayyyyyy too many lefty dudes who get weirdly intense about trans politics, I think that's it. They'd never put it this way, but they can see the perspective of a MtF person as a fellow male person–but they cannot fucking imagine what it might be like to be a female person, to live through the shit we live through, to know how invisible it is to men, and to wonder, perhaps, if maybe it might not be best to immediately allow everyone with a penis to decide what "woman" means now. They just think we're a bunch of cruel bitches/haggy dykes/icky mean 70s feminists who all just hate fun. It's easier than actually listening.

No. 68999

Anyone struggling with male friends who've come out as nb/MtF? I have a friend–sweet guy, great person–but he's come out as nb and it's….hard. He's from an affluent town, grew up into science/math/gaming, has a tech job, is dating a "queer" girl…and just like, in general, has lived a pretty easy life. But now he's nb and I have to sit here and act like he's moved closer on some "spectrum" towards my experience, when I'm sitting here knowing that his life is just like every other geeky dude I've ever known, and that he has not moved any closer to understanding my experiences just because he's dyed his hair pink. I'm glad he feels able to express himself (fashion wise especially) more freely now, I guess I'm glad that he feels like he has…idk, the permission to do so now. But I resent having to tacitly accept, when I use they/them for him, a worldview that has no fucking application to my life as a woman. I want to scream at him, sometimes. Blah blah oh you're trans, oh I have "cis privilege," that's great, but only one of us got catcalled as we walked to the train stop this morning and it wasn't fucking you.

No. 69001

Anyone else a woman in a "geeky" male-dominated field (game dev, comics, tech, etc) who's fucking exhausted by finding out all the other "women in x" are trans? I'm so fucking tired of people who grew up as horny little straight boys sucking all the air out of the room with their hyper-kinking visual novels.

No. 69004

That makes a lot of sense. Like they claimed I wanted to cut my husband's dick, posted some "radfem gf" meme that pretty much implied I hate men and want to castrate males, basically kept saying I'm a man hater all the entire discussion. When I said I expected violence from them so the rape threats were not surprising, they said I should expect them because I'm reactionary. I didn't even feel like answering anymore because they were treating me like a retard. The last reply I read was someone saying I was off the pills. They really get angry if someone doesn't enable trans' mental illness, it's literal violence. But they don't hesitate to be violent to us.

No. 69005


Yeah. Every year that goes by, I understand how so many 2nd wavers grew disillusioned with wider leftism. They were treated with the same shit. For the blah blah about radical leftism, so many of these guys still want someone around whose job it is to fuck them, clean for them, and raise their kids. Radical feminism shakes the core of their world, but in a really intimate way most men aren't prepared to deal with. It demands they take a serious look at their moms, wives, sisters, and the shit they went through for the sake of the men around them, and to DO something about. To CHANGE, even if it just means like, fucking doing the dishes more often. And they can't deal. I mean fuck, just think of radfem politics around porn–that's such a HUGE part of so many men's lives and personas, and radfeminism critiques it. So they can call themselves whatever lefty term they want, but at the end of the day, they can't fucking deal with women as actual people. They hate capitalism, but also, they want a mommy to suck their dick and wash their socks.

To editorialize a little, I see this in just how many trans women there are online who go hard into leftism, but treat it as a sort of fandom–like all the "Emily. 27. Trans dyke. Anarcho communist." types you see. It's easy for male people to get into leftism-as-fandom in this way, and just act like any woman talking about, idk, domestic labor, is just an EVIL REACTIONARY TERF. Which, to be pedantic, is really especially fucking stupid because MARX AND ENGELS THEMSELVES wrote about woman-as-a-class as the foundation of capitalism. Engels wrote A WHOLE FUCKING BOOK ABOUT IT.

It's all very radical and smashing capitalism until someone dares to talk about care work and maternal health and so much other shit that impacts so many billions of women around the world in dire ways. No, that's not relatable to some fucking 20-something dude with a software engineering job who may or may not be wearing one of those heart-shaped bondage chokers. So instead they scream about terfs.

No. 69009

it's especially bad in computer science. so many MtFs, i can't take it.

No. 69011


i just put 'i'm a lesbian, do not message me if you're male'. it's effective enough

No. 69012


What is it about the computer science field that attracts so many trannies? I have to take a few courses in it as a requirement for my accounting degree, and the class I'm in right now has 3 of them out of 28 students. Far above the supposed figures of 0.1-1% of the population being transgender that I've seen cited.

Is it the lack of required engagement with the public like they would need to do if they were lawyers or teachers? You'd think all the binary code would trigger them.

No. 69014

People in /leftypol/ consider feminism identity politics. Usually brocialists like saying people shouldn't care about race or gender, only class, because only class matters because capitalism is the root of all evil. They probably don't know or just ignore for their own mental comfort that many communist writers have stated revolution cannot happen without women's liberation. It's the epitome of privilege to be able to tell everybody to ignore their own opressions for the sake of an ideology. And then they wonder why the fuck people are not interested in the radical left and become liberals.

No. 69019

I had someone tell me that trans women in 3rd world countries have it worse than biological women in third world countries. It makes no sense to me. I highly doubt trans women in those countries pass even the slightest bit, so I don't really think they will be attacked. It's just disgusting that people believe that men have it worse than women.

No. 69028

haha no, the trannies literally think they're female.

No. 69029

if they knew so much about trans and 3rd world they'd know a lot of those countries force gay men to transition so they're just straight women.

No. 69034

>Being bullied for all their lives by their peers
>Excessive escapism and isolation from the community around them sitting at the computer
>Add these together and they create the perfect fetishy waifu/husbando character they want to become themselves

No. 69076

3rd worlder here
It's true, sort of, but needs context. A lot of trannies end up in prostitution because they're poor, or because their families dont accept them, or because they can't find work anywhere else - and you can probably guess that the men that seek them out aren't exactly 100% sane or comfortable with their sexuality. Because they don't interact with trannies during real life hours, they see them less like humans and more like a bizarre, shameful fetish. It gets violent often.

These trannies aren't any less autogynephilic than others, and in that regard I have no respect for them. They act exactly like gay males, not like women. However, they also don't deserve to be forced into prostitution, or to be abused and killed.

It's a tough subject because one has to reconcile their justified dislike for trans"ness" as a concept but acknowledge their situation. I don't think this is relevant for sjw narrative and it's disgusting that they try to use these people to push and justify their agenda.

>doubt trans women in those countries pass even the slightest bit, so I don't really think they will be attacked

It means they're more likely to be attacked. They don't look much like women but you can tell they're trying to, they end up looking like circus freaks who are neither here nor there.

It's also relevant to note that "3rd world countries" are not the poor wastelands most people seem to think they are. We have middle class and rich people just like any other country. Trannies who are not poor don't have it any worse.

No. 69077

File: 1508081660706.jpg (901.58 KB, 3925x2208, IMG_3552.JPG)

From the article:
>'The most amazing moment was when I got my breasts and I could show them off – almost to prove to everyone that I was a woman,' she said.
>So far she has only had breast enhancement surgery and Botox injections in her lips – less intensive than the procedures which lay ahead. 'I want to concentrate on making my face a bit softer – taking away some of the harsh lines – it is more important for me to fix what everyone sees when I am outside before I change what's between my legs.'

So being a girl is about being a huge-titted bimbo? K. In all honestly I don't consider myself a TERF, but I absolutely hate reading shit like this. Women and the experience of being a woman are about more than just having breasts! People write and share these articles to show how progressive and accepting they are, but they don't think about how this attitude hinders women (especially those whom aren't hyper-feminine and don't fit into the traditional female gender roles) and how it promotes the gender dichotomy.

No. 69078

yes but all you've said can be said for 3rd world poor women as well. you said yourself trans and women both have it the same if they're rich, so why not when they're poor? poor prostitutes even in 1st world countries have a high violence and murder rate, it comes more with prostitution than being trans. plus trans prostitutes don't risk pregnancy and are, unsuprisingly, not physically weaker like their female counterparts.

No. 69079

trans shit just reinforces gender roles, plain and simple. being a woman doesn't mean anything you know innately, it doesn't even have much to do with just being female. any experiences women have that reinforce them being a woman come from external sources. society, your every day experiences. it's not something you feel, it's something you're given, and told. it's someone holding the door for you, or someone refusing to listen to you, someone shouting obscene things at you, because you have breasts. the breasts, even the vagina does not make you a woman, the interactions you have with society do.

i just wish trannies would stop this irreversible dressup shit and concentrate on real gender issues. most of these men hate being men because of male gender roles? fix them, don't change you because you like women's better, we're over here trying to dismantle gender roles and these men come in pushing them on us even harder.

No. 69081

File: 1508086830589.jpg (37.05 KB, 500x631, 1495854642107.jpg)

I am a rather quiet radical feminist, yesterday at a family wedding I saw my niece who looks up to me (13, tomboy girl) wearing entirely men's clothes to the wedding. Maybe she likes men's fashion, and I'm supportive of that. I enjoy wearing it too, its important that both sides are willing to break gender norms without the reality-denial insistence that they are something they aren't.

I'm concerned she may or may not be pushed to transition, like most queer or "non-standard" young girls with access to tumblr (which she does). I don't want to message on facebook her and push her to the other side and have her transition out of spite or something… but I've been on the same medication they give to FTM girls during puberty. It really can fucking destroy your life and left me temporarily paralyzed (yet they wont recall that medication, thanks big pharma). I feel like I cannot just leave it be. I feel so lost on what to message her. how to tell her its okay and to not give into the peer pressure and it's okay to not subscribe to pre-defined bullshit.

No. 69091

Canada is a liberal cesspool. This is the same place where a man in his 40s left his family and pretends to be a 6 year old girl. I fucking can't stand this bullshit.

No. 69093


I have a cousin I'm worried about for the same reason. She's…kind of on the edge of going fakeboi, I think? And I get why–I think she's definitely at least bi, and while she's not butch, she is very, very uncomfortable with being hit w/ everything currently being thrown at her as a teen girl. There's certain things she's said that lead me to believe she's leaning towards identifying as anything-but-a-girl to deal with that. I don't know that I worry about medical transition yet (except I think she's binding, which can really fucking up your lungs, and might be curious about top surgery)…but I wish there was a way to say "I know what you're dealing with, I really do, but your discomofort is not proof of some innate un-femalehood and there are other ways to deal."

No. 69094

How many Secret Radfems/Terfs do you guys think are out there? I wonder this a lot–I work in lefty/creative industry in a lefty town so I'm surrounded by trans people/sisters not cis-ters/etc, and everyone SEEMS to be in lockstep. But I was once too, a year or so ago, until I stumbled onto radfem tumblr and everything I saw there made sense. I keep it TOTALLY quiet, though, no one irl knows. So I find myself wondering, especially when something especially ridiculous happens (transphobic pussy hats/womb-carriers/denial of sexual dimorphism/the general insistence that there is literally no diff between cis and trans women except the unique trans experiences us cissies could never ever hope to understand)….how many other women are there that I know, rolling their eyes where no one can see?

And related…I wonder how long this kind of BS can go on. Do you see a backlash coming? I want to believe there will be, but like…then sometimes I think, no, there'll be a backlash against all this but it'll be super right wing and everyone will smear libfem shit as radfem and everyone will go on knowing jack shit about actual radical feminism.

No. 69096

File: 1508111018477.jpg (92.44 KB, 810x1024, DK2evrHXUAAxWSJ.jpg)


luv 2 watch these hyper horny/boring-ass kink game making/anarcho-communist LARPING/stealth rapist asshole eat their own

No. 69097

I'm not saying female prostitutes don't have it bad, just that with tranny prostitute clients there's an added layer of shame and disgust that's not as often present in the men who seek female prostitutes. They're killed a lot more often despite having a man's strength.

And as I said, they may not even be working and they're still obvious trannies in poor neighborhoods. Poor people aren't exactly known for their tolerance towards outcasts.

If you're a woman you're a second class citizen but you're still human. A tranny isn't even that. You don't need to be pro trans to acknowledge that they're in a shit situation, women at least get to live a semi-normal life even if they're poor. It's not always "it's either prostitution or die of starvation", you can get a shit job cleaning someone's house and raise your thousandth kid. But nobody will hire a tranny anywhere.

No. 69099

Believe it or not, I'm starting to see a backlash against identity politics in ultra liberal kweer circles on Tumblr, with the push back against asexuality identity politics and all that. I think the next step is gender politics. We gotta keep talking and make more women aware though. Never shut up

No. 69100

>men are more oppressed than women
back to /r9k/ with you

No. 69101

Oh and to add to this
>you said yourself trans and women both have it the same if they're rich
No, obviously the trannies have it better, they're born male and also get to scream "opresshun!!!" at everything. But poor people are ruthless, and it gets worse when they're the majority of the population. I grew up in a poor city and I feared for my safety because I was white. I can only imagine what it must be like to be a man in a wig and a dress in that environment.

No. 69102

read my fucking post and stop shitting up the thread. I'm not saying men have it worse than women, I'm saying that mentally ill men in this particular context have it worse than pretty much everyone. It's not a trans issue as much as it's a poverty and public health issue.

It's not comparable or related to middle class sjw lefty trans discussion and so it should not be used by trannies in 1st world countries to win oppression points.

sage for pretty much offtopic

No. 69104

I've noticed this too, especially the backlash against extreme asexual/mogai politics. I wonder often how many people I see jumping on that are privately also critical of trans stuff.

No. 69106

boo fucking hoo, why are you sitting here trying to make an ~oppresshun~ pissing contest yet blaming others for it. even if trannies 'have it worse' they put themselves into that position on purpose, knowingly.

No. 69107

>if you're a woman you're a second class citizen but you're still human

As another 3rd worlder you have been spouting some load of bs here.

No. 69108

File: 1508118102260.gif (982.3 KB, 320x287, 1458421590676.gif)

>I grew up in a poor city and I feared for my safety because I was white

So you know that in 3rd world countries white people have privileges, right? So basically people treated you more like a human no matter where (civilians or police) because you were white. Yet you say you were afraid because you were white. That's another load of bullshit right there.

No. 69109

Given that it sounds like we have a lot of international women here, anyone else fucking fed up with the discourse treating nonwhite/third world/etc countries and cultures like they had nooooo ideeeeaaa what sex was before white people came along and that it was all a multiple-gendered utopia? I come from one of the cultures people love to tout as having "third genders" and guess what, we definitely figured out how babies were made early on, and also, those who birth them have always been treated like shit and still are. This discourse drives me fucking crazy because the experience of women in my country CANNOT be talked about w/o talking about bodies, pregnancy, all that, and suddenly….I have so few English-speaking online places to do that in.

The Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie thing really was the last straw for me. Women like us don't need to be "enlightened" by Western (and lbr, white) gender politics, we need to be listened to. Maybe our experience of gender CANNOT BE DISCUSSED AS SEPARATE FROM OUR BODIES. But no, we can't have ANYTHING to teach a bunch of white males about our experience. We have to bow to them. In the meantime, my 14-year-old cousin will get pregnant by a 30-year-old because of how shit our culture is towards women.

People like to scream "TERFS ARE ALL WHITE!!!!" but radical feminism is the only kind that speaks to me a fucking brown woman from a poor country.

No. 69110

>they put themselves into that position on purpose, knowingly.

You should probably rethink this statement, especially in the context of violence and abuse.

No. 69111

Learn how to sage, dumbass

No. 69112

File: 1508122224102.jpg (57.88 KB, 639x629, DMESr-3V4AUFvRk.jpg)

Tfw a confessed rapist is speaking at the women's March. How very progressive. Ironically he raped a transman

No. 69115

You don't get it, I'm equating them with the mentally retarded and the untreated schizophrenic. As far as I'm concerned they belong on the same group - incapable of looking after themselves and suffering because of it. I said it time and again, I'm not talking about their "transness" because it's irrelevant in this discussion where we're talking about individuals with enough education to know what they're doing. Poor trannies don't know what they're doing. They're retarded. Clearer now?

>da whitey no discriminated, muh people only one who suffer
You've clearly never been to a poor enough place, poor people of color into organized crime tend to create closed communities where they look after their own and distrust/dislike everyone else. I'm aware white people have privileges generally speaking, I'm not saying I was ~oppressed, just that I was constantly threatened by a group who happened to have control where I lived. Anyone who wasn't part of the group or didn't conform lived in fear - gay, white, asian, man in dress, bookworm, non-Christian, the list goes on. It's not systematic so it's not about privileges or racism

No. 69120

Oh yes, especially when they bring up this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_posh

Parents who can't conceive a son dress their daughter up as a boy, whether she likes it or not, so that she could attend school, work and live a free life. Tumblr SJWs act like this is some sort of a progressive view of gender and applaud it, when it's literally because women aren't worth shit in their society and the only way for them to have some quality to their lives they need to disguise as men.

fucking kill me now

No. 69124

"Identity validation" and plastic surgery aren't human rights. End of discussion

No. 69125

Women are literally seen as subhuman in most of the world shut up lmao. Men in dresses will never have it worse than actual fenale humans

No. 69128

this just reinforces in my mind that many if not all transwomen are just fetish roleplayers.

No. 69135

"transbians" are just AGP men

No. 69140

File: 1508181606706.jpg (78.72 KB, 965x584, 86f3f0ad-24e0-48e8-bcb9-d3d0e5…)

where's the lie

No. 69141

File: 1508181706510.jpg (50.01 KB, 900x545, r9k cycle.jpg)

male version

No. 69142

This one needs more steps. Wannabe antifa/communist "activism," graduating to "feminism" that literally does not care about the experience of 99.9% of women from the dawn of time, writing articles for Everday Feminism about how winged eyeliner encompasses your trans femme identity uwu, really over the top "terf hunter" phase, "game dev" phase all about making ~super gay~ VNs, obsession with soft smol glittery anime waifus that all look like 8-year-old girls with tits and dicks, etc. Although I guess some of those never end….

No. 69150

Also needs a step where he becomes a "transbian"

No. 69151


And absolutely never shuts the fuck up about how their desire to stick their penis into vaginas is ~~~~so gay lol omg I'm So Gay~~~~~ high femme tee hee girl dick I've Always Been Soooo Gaaaay Even When I Was A Greasy White Teenage White Boy In Cargo Shorts And A Ratty Black Hoodie, Jacking My Dick To Forced Femme Doujin And Treating The Girls In My Anime Club Like Shit Because I Saw Them As Validation Machines Like Every Other Straight Boy, I Was SOOOOO GAYYYYYYY

No. 69165

those rainbow striped knee high socks lol…. i'm cackling

No. 69166


Oooh, let's catalogue the contents of an Alt-y Terf-Hunting Transbian. Alice McTechSupportJob.

-rainbow socks
-fingerless gloves
-many chokers

What else?

No. 69167

File: 1508218531368.jpeg (224.5 KB, 640x707, C6347D36-807C-4BD3-8C55-7540DE…)

Hey men, unsure of how to support women? Start by supporting men who feel like women.

No. 69168

schoolgirl skirt
shiny and stuff ebay cosplay wig
flaky drugstore eyeliner
matronly, ill-fitting dresses
walmart perfume to mask natural male BO

No. 69169

i think a lot of MtFs started out as incels who were fascinated that popular feminism was "sex positive". y'know the creepy dude who call themselves feminists to get laid. then when realizing feminists love MtFs, they decided to play that part too.

No. 69170

Too accurate

No. 69171

File: 1508222332677.png (174 KB, 456x810, lol.png)

No. 69174

File: 1508223627819.jpg (24.81 KB, 460x276, Diana-Rakipi-a-Burrnesha--008.…)

The whole "other cultures have third gender/multi gender etc, whites have invented oppressive binary system" is such bullshit. It's mostly similar as >>69120 - either families who couldn't get a son, disguise their daughter as male because women aren't worth shit in their society. Here is another example from Albania:

Albanian sworn virgins aka "Burnesha"

>The Kanun dictates that families must be patrilineal (meaning wealth is inherited through a family's men) and patrilocal (upon marriage, a woman moves into the household of her husband's family). Women are treated like property of the family. Under the Kanun women are stripped of many rights. They cannot smoke, wear a watch, or vote in their local elections. They cannot buy land, and there are many jobs they are not permitted to hold. There are even establishments that they cannot enter.

>A woman becomes a sworn virgin by swearing an irrevocable oath, in front of twelve village or tribal elders, to practice celibacy. Then she is allowed to live as a man and may dress in male clothes, use a male name, carry a gun, smoke, drink alcohol, take on male work, act as the head of a household (for example, living with a sister or mother), play music and sing, and sit and talk socially with men.

>Sworn virgins could also participate in blood feuds. If a sworn virgin was killed in a blood feud her death counted as a full life for the purposes of calculating blood money, rather than the half a life ordinarily accorded for a female death.[11]

Again, a woman only manages to get rights and worth, but she has to do a "transition" and her body is being policed by men.

Tumblr loves Burnesha because they are believed to be the only formal transgender role in Europe. They don't see the misogyny behind it at all, as long as it fits their transgender narrative.

No. 69179

File: 1508242369990.jpg (116.39 KB, 720x783, b7587eb5-702b-4fc7-a299-a2c441…)

These people are out of touch with reality

No. 69190

I feel as if a lot of them wanted to trans so they could be apart of a minority, since the majority of them before transitioning were white males. Also, I hate the names they choose for transitioning. "Helen Rosner, Sophia Black, Phoenix Olivia…" It strikes me as bizarre.

No. 69192


Yeah, what would those boring old cis women know about pregnancy putting their lives and health at risk, am I right

No. 69193


Similarly–I'm from a culture with a "third gender" than, frankly, white people like to write listicles on as SOOO PROGRESSIVE…but nobody ever mentions that it's 1. basically a way of quarantining gay/femme men so they don't contaminate the Real Men, and 2. that there's no option for women. If you can make a baby, that's what you do: you make babies. No opting out. And it's not even like the third gender option people get treated great.

No. 69194


Yeah, one of the biggest schisms I feel like I notice between MtFs and cis women–and libfemmy stuff/trans feminism vs. rad feminism–is over sex and sex positivity. On the one hand, you have us, the first women to grow up in an era of COMPLETELY OMNIPRESENT porn/fetish/etc, plus libfem ideas telling us that poledancing classes are super feminist, those icky old 70s dykes just didn't like fun, lipstick is empowering, etc etc. So we're reaching adulthood and realizing, actually, that growing up in this culture was really hard and fucked us up in a lot of ways and we want to talk about it. On the other hand, you have these MtF "transbians" who grew up as straight boys, and often nerdy ones, who sucked down porn and like, fetishy jiggly moe shit that portrays women as sexy kittenish grade schoolers, from an early age, and now they're ~women~ and "into feminism" but they fundamentally cannot understand a feminism/womanhood that is uncomfortable with porn/objectification b/c whether they say so or not…their conception of themselves and their sexuality is completely built upon consuming these porny images of women, and not growing up as the person being consumed. Weirdest symbol of this I notice: I know so few cis women into moe anime/games, but I know SO MANY transbians who are. Like, how many transbian twitter accounts have a seen where the tl is just a wall of blushing catgirl schoolgirls who turn into tanks or whatever shyly scissoring each other or w/e.

This is the first time I've typed out these thoughts I've had swirling around in my head for a while. Does this seem right to anybody else?

No. 69196

I see your point, but there are tons of non trans women into video games and moe anime.

No. 69198

kek, so glad my boyfriend is a small c conservative.

you girls dug your own graves dating left-wing men, i can actually talk to my boyfriend about women's issues (rape and sexual violence for example) and he'll listen and sympathize, he even sympathized with the whole "men shouldn't tell disgusting 'jokes' in front of women" argument.

of course, he hates feminism but that's because he associates it with libfeminism and doesn't understand how having a revolving door prison system for rapists with a 40% reoffending rate is somehow "helping women's welfare".

honestly tempted to just go full nationalist.

No. 69199


Idk, I'm one of those women (thought I've cooled on moe) but…it's hard for me to find cis women who loooooove Girls und Panzer or w/e, you know? They exist, but…it's a hell of a lot easier to find trans women into it. It's generalization, but I feel like it holds.

No. 69200

I think most of us love yourselves enough to date date conservative lol, besides it sounds like you are one of those women who are enchanted by guys doing shit they're supposed to know. Get higher standards bb. Stop raising grown men :/

No. 69202

Go full nationalist. My boyfriend is the kindest, most understanding and empathetic partner I've ever had.

No. 69203

That may be true. I personally like some moe anime but the sexualized stuff is too much for me. A lot of these men seem to look at anime as a guide to being women, and they also use the 'trap' thing a lot to describe themselves, which is gross.

No. 69204

calm down, nutball, none of us are dating these freaks. why are you so concerned with trying to flaunt your bf anyways?

No. 69224

>it's your fault for being leftist cum buckets lmao I'm totally a girl my sisters!!!!

No. 69226

>why are you so concerned with trying to flaunt your bf anyways?
I think she's just trying to win brownie points for her party by stating that her bf is right-wing/conservative/whatever AND sympathetic to women's issues. as if that somehow negates the hordes of mysoginists who are inclined towards such political views

No. 69229

I hate the trend when conservatives agree with us. Like conservatives are as bad as liberal feminists. Fuck off.

No. 69231

I don't mind it so much, because it gets the job done, but then again, it's the intent and not the action.

No. 69249


No. 69315

File: 1508466098420.jpg (103.57 KB, 540x405, fa1b5fdd-747c-4651-84e2-c5d785…)

Who do you ladies think is the most annoying Trans activist/Anti terf? I despise Zinnia Jones. Man has the such a punchable face.

No. 69316

Don't lump Chris Chan into this. He's in a different world.

No. 69321

still a lunatic homophobic straight dude incel type obsessed with porn like the rest of 'em

No. 69326

What's Zinnia's deal again? I remember she irritated me at some point but I cannot remember what it was.

No. 69330

I'm a gender critical socialist.
I get flak for it sometimes, but we're definitely making headway on leftypol. I used to get banned all the time (pretty sure board owner is a tranny) but now I get plenty of people agreeing with me. Stick around.

No. 69332

blonde on the bottom row looks good, I don't even want to know who that is so I don't ruin my positive impression of him with the shit I'm sure he spews

No. 69348

What do you guys think about accepting trans men into discussions on female-related issues? Since they were identified as female at birth to me it makes a lot more sense to include them in discussions about issues affecting females than trans women since they grew up being told they were women and them rejecting that is a huge part of their identity.

No. 69349

since they are -actually- women, it makes sense to me, but at the same time, since they are rejecting their womanhood it doesn't at all, and they'll likely not care. i do think it is important to refuse to accept male or female trans though.

No. 69350

of course it's fine for them to talk about female issues. they are women.

No. 69355

Out of anything, my hugest issues with trans stuff is seeing people tell lesbians to "evaluate" why they don't like dick, or saying they're TERFs for not liking peen, and talking over majority (cis) female experiences and/or assuming the trans/becoming feminine experience=the female experience.

Like, all of this "omg dresses! omg sexy animu girl!" is _not_ about being female. I also hate it when people say trans women are more female than cis women, or "better" somehow. It feels like I can't discuss the possibility of negative feelings about one's assigned sex making someone want to be a different gender, rather than sex dysphoria, and how that should be dealt with using therapy as much as possible instead of giving hormones and surgery.

I'm saying all of this as someone who would date a trans woman and has a lot of trans friends. We need to be critical and allowed to be critical when it comes to people discussing gender in _feminism_, a movement about gender/sex and subjugation.

I don't see myself as a TERF at all, just a critically thinking, LGBT-positive feminist, but a lot of people will jump your ass for not falling into step. ._.

No. 69358


Yeah, it's suddenly really hard to discuss the often ugly relationship female people have towards feminine expectations regarding makeup, fashion, sex, and body stuff because trans women can't relate to it. There's a profound difference between being a male person yearning to occupy that space and a female person punished if they fail to do so. And the only space female people could take it about is…I don't want to say "being colonized," but we can't talk openly about this there right now.

No. 69361

i'm going to just put out there that trans people appropriate gender.

No. 69367

You put it beautifully.

No. 69376

i feel this way tbh, and i don't use appropriate that often that way. like, cultural appropriation is generally fine, but this is just taking something that is -not- yours, claiming you're better at it than the people who it belongs to and saying -they- aren't entitled to it.

No. 69403


I'm a secret radfem/gender critical. I have been since 2013. I work in lefty/creative industry too and am surrounded by all kinds of special identity people, pretend gays, non binaries, trans people. I am actually familiar with some rather significant activists here where I live. I hang around in radical left circles.

No one knows. I guess my career could be ruined if anyone did. Though I have taken distance with some people, and keep it up with some, because I can't stand the misogyny and homophobia. I have sometimes gotten into trouble for voicing some opinions too loudly. And it's funny, after some time the same people who got mad at me started saying same things I did, after those opinions became fashionable in queer circles… Like for example the are straight aces queer thing.

So yes we are here. We just can't know how many of us, since we have to keep quiet for our jobs.

No. 69453

He's cut out of the same cloth as Riley Dennis. He thinks that straight men and lesbians who don't like dicks are transphobic and should just get over it. Among other things.

No. 69465

I read the Scum Manifesto by Valeries Solanas and it shook my perception of the world.
Then I went to read a blog called FactCheckMe where I learned a lot, and tried to read Beauvoir but quit early on as the vocabulary was hard to understand for me.
I have been reading a bit of Pornography by Andrea Dworkin, but the stuff we need to deal with and confront just by learning the truth is so upsetting that I've stopped a while ago and went on to read technical non-fiction lol

I try to understand why I feel and think the way I do, but something visceral is at stake when I think about this.
I suspect very much that I am a TERF, but the only two times I talked explicitly about it, with this label, men were around and I was treated as someone to be silenced ASAP.
One of them is my (guy) friend for a long time, and terribly smart, but started immediately trying to find women who did wrong too!1!1!
The other time I was in an online leftist party Discord, and was told they didn't want TERFs there, a lurking tranny came out of the woods to say I was afraid trannies would steal all men or some similar shit lol, one of the guys I was working with told me disagreed with me but refused to talk any further about it, and another guy just told me not to talk about it at all - while he was available to use my work, he wasn't available to have me voice my concerns.
So I'm surprised at the amount of people who hold similar views here, hugs to you all! I wish I had one of you iRL to spin with, as Daly says.

So now I shut up, but I am absolutely not letting any men fuck me, and if I find one in my fucking bathroom peeing standing I might have to leave. They better pass. These entitled men don't want to acknowledge that the narrative of rape starts with a dick being waved, and and our safety is more important than their fucking delusions of what the hell a woman, something they never were, will be, or ever experience, is.

I have no issues with trannies being married, having a home, or healthcare, like any other human. But that they imagine they have the right to be given access to female spaces, and even vaginas, is just a reflection of the rights they are born with as men and that they imagine they retain when they cut their dicks off or put on a dress.
Any further proof that trannies aren't women is given by themselves, when they prance around in completely stereotypical ways; only a (very dumb) man would imagine that having a fuckhole and putting on a dress is enough to be a woman.

No. 69475

File: 1508721709545.png (42.73 KB, 522x408, tumblr_oy7qqkwvKj1viy94zo1_540…)

everything about this rubs the wrong way.

No. 69477

>lol cis women need us
>inb4 u call me out


No. 69503

File: 1508788648054.jpg (211.17 KB, 1080x1920, CuKzF0g.jpg)

i really hope this is a joke

No. 69504

>Valerie Solanas
>Andrea Dworkin

are these memes or did you find their work genuinely interesting in some way? i only ever see them brought up when men REEE at feminists and i'm not sure if it's worth reading

No. 69505

The right and the left react to each other. A lot of conservatives get snarky about environmentalism, a lot of progressives get snarky about family values. Realistically, it's kind of weird to hate either of those things.

When libfems assimilated trans activism they aligned themselves with strategic essentialists pushing a narrative that there are male and female brains, and if you act/dress/look like the sex opposed to your brain sex it makes you suicidal. When conservatives react to this, they often take a conventionally feminist position by accident.

Valerie Solanas is a meme, and only worth your time if you want to schlick to hardcore femdom.

Dworkin's insightful, but radical enough that really buying into her stuff can alienate you from a lot of people. If you want to get into radical feminism go ahead, but imo it just contributes to feeling resentful and powerless.

No. 69511

I thought it was more that when you have the 'wrong' sex organs you get suicidal. I mean that's the whole dysphoria thing right? It's ridiculous when they claim you don't need dysphoria, and that your brain gets upset when you don't look like x, y, z. Like, if I get dysphoria when I don't look like an anime loli, does that mean I should get to? This trans shit is so convoluted…

No. 69512

No. 69514

We all know that trans rhetoric is inherently misogynistic/sexist, but something I always felt in the back of my mind but wasn't able to put into words is that by denying the importance of socialization it also works under the premise that sexism is inconsequential. And because of that, their beliefs are inherently incompatible with feminism.

Transfolk and sympathizers see sexism as an immediate cause-effect thing, such as "you're not getting this job because you're a woman", or "you're getting catcalled because you're a woman", and they necessarily believe that the damage stops there. Beauty standards are only bad as far as "people who don't meet them don't get as many likes and shares" go, and it necessarily presupposes that they don't impact one's self-worth, because acknowledging that they do implies agreeing that socialization matters

As I said, I know I'm stating the obvious, but this is baffling. This just keeps getting worse and uglier the more you think about it

No. 69531

I think if I was born a few years later, I might have actually been trans so I can explain to you what made me snap out of going down that route.

So around the age of 11/12 (similar to your cousin) I was being bullied for starting puberty early. I started to hate the idea of growing breasts and getting periods and becoming a woman. I think, if someone had been kind to me, I wouldn’t have hated my body so much and wouldn’t have considered the changes happening to me to be shameful. Young girls are expected to grow up fast now and of course wearing stripper outfits and 10 layers of makeup before you’ve even hit puberty is going to feel foreign and make you consider you might be trans. I figured that if I didn’t like tanning, false eyelashes and lacy bras that I wasn’t like “other girls”. I didn’t realise that girls had all kinds of interests.

Around that time, I also discovered feminism. At that time, feminists were discussing real issues like illiteracy in girls worldwide, arranged marriages, societal pressures and expectations, gender pay gap, sexual harassment…you know, things that are actually important. A lot of feminist blogs I followed were really critical of the new trans trend and instead supported the idea that women should look like and do whatever they want. At that time I realised that I didn’t need to be a boy to wear boy’s clothing or like tv shows and games that were “for boys”. As a teenager, I was constantly discouraged from pursuing things that people perceived as “manly” like the sciences or sports in favour of things like art and languages. Now, I’m working in a science field. I almost missed out on that opportunity because my shitty school and relatives kept telling me my “girl brain” wasn’t able for it and I believed them. Ultimately, I just came to realise that you can be a girl and like “boy” things at the same time. Mind blown.

Also tans people always tend to be in communities. Almost all of my friends who are a few years younger than me are trans/non-binary/agender/whatever because they all influence and encourage each other to do it. When you're in a community like that, nobody stops to question you if you’re doing something bad. If she has friends like that, it’s a warning sign. I’d gift her something that makes her aspire to being a badass woman. For example, there’s a really cool book out called “Rejected Princesses” that’s all about real women throughout history who achieved great things but are rarely taught in history class. Imo people who are trans think it will be “easier” to be the other gender because it will be more acceptable for a trans girl to play with dolls or a trans boy to play football. Feminism taught me that it’s way better to own the fact that you’re a woman with all kinds of interests and stand up to people who tell you that it’s not right than just to accept what they’re saying and aspire to have an easier life. I fucking love it when people are surprised by what I do for a living. All girls should get that feeling when they talk about their interests. And boys, too. I think it’s rad when little boys know how to cook for themselves or when they’re really caring towards siblings.

If you speak to her again sometime soon, try saying positive things about the changes happening to her body (“Wow, you’re getting so tall! That’s great!”) and compliment her on her unique hobbies (whatever they might be!). Let her know that GIRLS like herself don’t have to like everything they’re expected to do and use yourself as an example, “I don’t like tanning but I still look great! I didn’t do home economics in school but I got a great job!” Praise her for being a tomboy because it’s clearly part of her personality. Never put her down for “masculine” interests but never put her down for “feminine” interests either. It’s all about positive reinforcement. If she looks up to you, she’s going to really value your opinion.

I know that’s really long but your post hit really close to home and I really hope it helps. I’m sure your cousin is a really cool kid and I want her to know that.

No. 69546

what the fuck valerie solanas is not a meme. SCUM changed my way of thinking also. it's important work

No. 69550

File: 1508925925168.jpg (39.97 KB, 320x494, 70392d283c8d3a343a87f6e6c372fe…)

Transpeople really have such an unhealthy fixation with validation that they'd resent being excluded from the sexual harrassment that ciswomen are subject to.

No. 69562

>SCUM changed my way of thinking also
Explain how.

No. 69568


>it's important work

it's mental illness

No. 69573

This makes me feel ill. Being envious of unwanted sexual advances, harassment, and assault because it would validate your ""transgirlhood"" and whining that you don't feel "authentic" enough. Jesus.

No. 69586

I've been reading ONTD more than usual lately, and I'm noticing posts about trans issues are full of people with rational, well argued 'terf' beliefs and they're getting a lot of support/positive responses. I was pleasantly surprised because any other social justice issue gets a very strongly liberal response and I assumed this would be the same. There may be hope for us yet if even a distinctly SJW place like that is onto trans bullshit.

No. 69596

I'm trans and I mostly just want to be left alone. Transpeople just seem to have no concern for image.If you want anyone to take you seriously stop acting like a fucking idiot.Obviously I don't particularly like TERFs but the people who are like "all TERFs should die" are not making things easy for me. I'm just constantly embarrassed by the shit trans people pull. Like there is this transgirl I've seen around who literally wears striped thigh highs. Is it really that hard to dress like an adult?I just wish other trans people could act somewhat normally. Dress and act like normal people and try not to cause a scene.

No. 69599

File: 1509043635457.jpg (42.84 KB, 699x637, fff.jpg)

>I'm trans

No. 69602

I can assure you that the embarrassing part of being trans is not what a few badly dressed people do in public.

No. 69603

Yeah plenty of other embarrassing shit people do but prestening oneself poorly is pretty easily apparent.

No. 69604

Ex. Trans people dressing up in lolita fashion.

No. 69605

I mean if they can manage to put together a decent cord fine but often times it just seems to attract weird fetish people. Others are overcompensating for "time lost" which I'm fine with so long as they aren't some ita lace monster or something.

No. 69606

i'd be more embarrassed that i bought into getting my genitals wrecked.

No. 69607

>time lost


No. 69608

As in like " I had to be male for the first 60 years of my life but now I'll show everyone I'm the prettiest girly girl by wearing cute grill clothes"

No. 69612

Eww no, why would anyone accept that lolitas act like that? Fucking gross ass special snowflakes.

No. 69616

I'm just saying for some that is the motivation behind it, I doubt most would be upfront about it. Also it being anime adjacent is a large other reason.

No. 69622

Idk if you're >>69605 or not but they said that they're fine with it, which is gross. The idea that trans people have to overcompensate for not being able to be a gender stereotype is appalling.

No. 69623

So long as they aren't fetishists or there to be pervs I don't really care.

No. 69625

I was never a feminist until "terf" got thrown around. So men who murder women and trans women are okay but somehow women who merely disagree with gender are scum? Oh ok.

No. 69683

same, i never felt confident about calling myself a feminist before i learned about radfem. and it's not like my ideas on gender changed to fit radfem, rather libfem never hit the core of the problems that i was seeing. it's sad that "terf/swerf" talking points are being demonized.

No. 69684

I highly doubt most trannies think terfs are worse than murder. So much of terfs talking points seem to be giant generalizations based off anecdotal stuff like shitty people being shitty on twitter. Or I've seen that Reddit screenshot of someone regretting a botched surgery used so many times. Like if people are going to post actual opinions fine but so much of terf shit is must meme post shit.

No. 69687

Here's a thought, read the thread.

No. 69694

It's the same for me. I was always wary of calling myself a feminist until I learned about radical feminism. I know it's super clichéd to say it but the radfem ideology honestly opened my eyes. It's meant to liberate and protect women and that's what feminism should be about, not the intersectional liberal type of bullshit that's more about serving trannies and muslims than women.

I envy you for your pure, optimistic and inexperienced outlook on the issue.

No. 69703

That's because libfem brings too much political shit into it without getting to core issues. It's like they almost -want- to actually help but they get distracted by every damn thing on the way there that they forget what they were doing.

No. 69718

File: 1509336717870.png (345.35 KB, 553x890, tumblr_oyki5nUBHu1v4yu0bo1_128…)

courtesy of pronounrespecter on tumblr

No. 69774


Troons do shit like this then have the nerve to claim that their "gender" isn't a fetish.

No. 69778

Yep because that twitter speaks for all trannys.

No. 69781

pronounrespecter doing god's work yet again!

No. 69785

I see nothing on that twitter that warrants it being posted here tbh, it's not about autogynephilia, it's literally just trans and kinky. And the responsible kind of kinky on top of that.

No. 69789

I think you are lost an that is a good thing. I'm here just for the keks.

No. 69791

theory: the real reason terfs love making fun of trannys is because they are the only ones less fuckable than them.

No. 69792

Hi June.

No. 69793


No. 69796

No. 69803

because radfems #1 goal is to be fuckable

No. 69805

man all these people really care about is being pretty and "Fuckable" huh? How can you say shit like this and still go on about it not being a fetish

No. 69806

Yeah because women's main goal in life is to be fuckable. Her only way to be worth anything is to be fuckable. It isn't like we have been trying to get past that idea for fucking ages.

Shouldn't trans people want to fight against harmful gender based ideas like that? I would assume they would, but they seem pretty comfortable with women having the shitty end of the stick in that regard. Especially MTFs- they want to be women, so are those really the attitudes that they want to perpetuate? Once they transition, that's the kind of treatment they want? They want to be judged on their looks and nothing else?

When they reach the point where they pass and are seen as women, they will learn soon enough how shitty all of that feels.

No. 69817

Lol taking that obvious bait.
Also obviously relationships/sex aren't the only thing in life that matter but to most people they are important aspects.

No. 69831

That post wasn't about relationships, it was specifically about women's looks (or about how *~terfs hate mtf because they're beautiful while terfs are ugly~*). Relationships are not just about how pretty a woman is.

No. 69853

Just found out that my ex boyfriend, a frequent poster on both r9k and incels (despite being very promiscuous), "came out" as trans. I've never seen such a clear cut case of autogynophilia, it's actually pretty hilarious. But damn, it's also really disgusting seeing someone who berates and objectified women all the time being immediately accepted as a woman. It really is repulsive how blatant misogynists can steal the female label for themselves like that.

No. 69856

Happened to me too. My ex who beat me and degraded me constantly also came out as a woman lol. It's fucking insane.

No. 69868

It's the new get out of jail free card, it seems. You've been a kniwn mysogynist? Raped a women before? Don't worry gooorl, you're trans now, you've been absolved and anyone pointing how terrible you really are is a transphobic hater.

No. 69871


to this day i am afraid to tell people that i've been abused and sexually assaulted, because my ex is a trans woman (who did nothing to pass)…

No. 69901

File: 1509769701036.jpg (139.62 KB, 627x497, gross.jpg)

fave thing about it is that he still posts shit like this all the time. How can you rant about how ~hard it is for men and women will never understand~ while still trying to be a woman?

No. 69902

He's turning trans because he's envious of women's lives, in particular the lives of rich, white Stacies. Sometimes I think that these robot/incel type freaks are more jealous of hot chicks than actual ugly and average women are.

No. 69935

Why do these people act like the gatekeepers of loneliness? Is it a scientific fact that women can't experience loneliness now?

I haven't had a friend since freshman year of high school. Graduated college, no friend or boyfriend the entire time I was there. I go to work, I come home, read or watch films. Go to sleep. The only human interaction I have is at work. It's been well over 5 years (more like 11), and I still haven't killed myself. Is what I've experienced not loneliness? Am I a man now?

Also I love how they act like sex is a cure all for all problems. As if being able to get sex easily means that you automatically can't be lonely, because I'm sure casual sex with a dude who doesn't even care about you makes you feel SO less alone. Ridiculous.

Sorry for the slight blog post, but this is a big pet peeve of mine. I see incels repeat this shit alllll the time.

No. 69958

I've been called a TERF but honestly didn't start hating trannies until interacting with so many. They feel the need to attack anyone who doesn't want to sleep with them or doesn't validate their psychosis. Also so many trans women are shitting up the lesbian dating sites now and even if you do manage to find actual women most of them are deluded and think you shouldn't be mean to the trans women.

Other than tumblr fakebois all the trans men I've met are pretty sane individuals outside of the whole dysphoria thing. A lot of neckbeards seem to have become transbians so they can abuse women without repercussion and make feminism about men. I even feel weird because a guy friend of mine considers himself queer when all he has dated are women. Like I'm afraid he is going to turn out to be another violent shit stain.

No. 70009

I had only met one trans woman before college and she’s was very docile and I think that came with having a lot of female friend she in middle school and high school. However, my freshman year of college I was very involved with the LGBT+ group because I’m a bi woman and met another one who was exactly the person described in most of these. Had no idea how women dressed regardless of ‘style’, harassed a lot of young female members of the group, constantly talked about her dick, and generally was very loud and talked very violently and about how she’s loves to manipulate people. I now stick to a lot of my butch or male friends when I know she’s around because she makes me flinch and I know she won’t go around them

No. 70183

File: 1510600750442.jpg (65.95 KB, 696x464, ew.jpg)

So this gross, narcissistic piece of shit threw a strop on twitter about not being allowed to use the female changing rooms in Topshop. Now Topshop is changing its changing rooms to become gender neutral.

I don't even have anything against the concept of opening more unisex spaces - as long as the women and men only spaces still exist for those who want them. I'm just literally so fucking sick of it being demanded by and acquiesced to these whiny, entitled wannabe divas.

No. 70185

Is anyone else sick of how WoC feminists expect white feminists to support their men as part and parcel of intersectional feminism?

Just… Fuck off. I don't care about Mike Brown. All men are shit but black men are by far the most violent and shittiest.

No. 70188



No. 70190


I hate when they argue about how violent men might become if they use the men's changing room. Yeah, you're right. Why don't we fix that problem instead of depending upon women swallowing how uncomfortable and alienated men are making them once again? Why don't we expect shit from men, and everything from women?

No. 70215

He doesn't even identify as a woman but claims to be "non-binary".

No. 70216

File: 1510653784752.png (3.31 MB, 1800x1200, travisalabanza.png)

But he posted these pictures with the caption "Going as a 15 year old yt gal for Halloween" on Twitter but he has deleted them when people noticed what a creep he is.

No. 70221

This is an old post, but I think that doctors should agree to give full hysterectomies to any transman who thinks this way. Problem solved - no reproductivity/risk of pregnancy and an immediate seize in production of oestrogen. If they change their mind… oopsy?

No. 70264

really hope your rapists/abusers fall for the SRS meme and end up with a painful necrotic transbussy and chronic urinary tract infections

and remember, suicide rates have been shown to increase post-transition, so if they do transition you might get lucky! sad thing is they sound like crusty autogynophilic freaks so they might not, but hey, you can always hope their dick shrivels up because of hrt and they wind up alone, ostracised and chemically castrated in 5-10 years when this bullshit stops being trendy :]

No. 70270

But what if it doesn't stop being trendy ? What if this will actually become the norm ?

That's what I'm afraid of. I'm not saying everything was great before that, but to see people like this get away with it because people see it like ~muh gay stigma~ there was before but fail to see this is different.

You can do whatever you want at home, but seeing people like this want to change everything so they feel better than ~horrible cis people~ makes me scared.

No. 70272

not the same anon but tbh when all these dumb transtrender kids/ unfortunate gays end up sterilizing themselves from puberty blockers and gross surgeries and suing their doctors, the bubble will pop. we just gotta wait

No. 70273

File: 1510767676374.png (166.8 KB, 429x410, anglo.png)

Tbh. I hope both terfs/radfems and trans fuckos get fucking beheaded

No. 70296

Removing a perfectly healthy organ is wrong for a doctor to do, honestly.

No. 70304

They do already, it's called circumcision and probably why so many gross American men want to go the full mile and lop all of it off. Doctors will do alot for money.

No. 70317

File: 1510862857075.png (58.46 KB, 400x264, tumblr_oyxq9aNfTG1wz3drgo1_400…)

>>orgasmic childbirth

No. 70320

silly biological women using anaesthesia during childbirth when they could be having orgasms, smh

No. 70321

File: 1510867227288.jpg (11.21 KB, 480x360, hqdefault.jpg)

>b-but mom it's not a fetish, this is who I really am!

No. 70322

File: 1510867389545.jpg (129.37 KB, 400x300, tentacles.jpg)

I want to give that thing the benefit of the doubt that he meant 'organic', but knowing trannies, he meant exactly what he wrote. Disgusting.

No. 70324

lol no anon he means orgasm. many women 'have orgasms' during childbirth, just cause the nerves are very stimulated. however, you don't feel them because the rest of it hurts like a bitch. i did an all natural childbirth and it hurt like a bitch and was an almost out of body experience, but i didn't feel no orgasms.

No. 70327

Fucking why man
I’m terrified of my impending labour, does he want to swap?

No. 70328

If that guy experienced even a single labor pain he would collapse to the floor and beg for his mommy i guarantee it.

No. 70329

>all natural childbirth
Respect! Childbirth is the number one reason im terrified of having kids :/

No. 70330

No. 70331

I read the link, it doesn’t sound like the changes in brain structure were negative ones?

Sage for curious OT

No. 70370

to play devils advocate, she probably meant 'organic' birth.

No. 70371

he meant orgasmic.

there has been speculation that the missing women are the results of drs experimenting with womb implantation.

No. 70488

what missing women O_o

No. 70654

Reckless move on their part, not only because he's trans but because of his age.
The woman he harrassed was a 50 something year old gnc lesbian. She had years of experience as a woman, and they decided to replace her with this little 19 y/o twerp. What's he going to do when he has to address the biological issues that ciswoman face and gets triggered?

No. 70656

why did you tell me to grow up you cunt?

No. 70663


>Would the feedback be any different if a transman when into a mens version of this position?

Is there any men's version of this position? In the Labour party at least?

>But how many years of living as a woman is enough 'lived experience' for this sort of thing, would an older transwoman be expected?

He won't ever have the experience needed for this position because living as a trans woman is not the same as living as a woman. That people pretend the two are one and the same is just so absurd and anti-intellectual.

No. 70678

No, because I think the general argument is that politics/society as a whole has always been a male construct, ergo the “norm” is male. Women’s officers are needed because their experiences are outside the norm.

>living as a trans woman is not the same as living as a woman

This. It will never ever be the same, and I don’t particularly want a man pretending to be a woman speaking for me. At least when cismen were doing it it was from an admitted position of (arguably sexist) ignorance.

No. 70696

wtf.. he looks just like a 17 year old boy with long "skater" hair

No. 70756

File: 1511654485793.jpg (27.74 KB, 650x366, 0b378fa4-9f4b-4e60-b9bb-f1cbfa…)

If TERFs were wrong then this wouldn't exist:

t. antifem but getting TERFpilled from observing troonacy

No. 70857

Men and women both need their own sex-exclusive spaces. End of.

No. 70864

Just out of curiosity: has anybody else encountered the problem of lesbians using their Most Opressed In The Society status to be shitty to het/bi women? I refer to tumblr radfems mostly.
Like demeaning their suffering in male-partnered relationships, advicing women attracted to men to drop relationships with them altogether (even straight women), basically going 'i told you so, that's what you get when dating men' etc.

I'm not arguing WLW are not opressed and don't have it harder than straight women (dunno about bi), but it doesn't excuse the total lack of compassion toward straight/bi women. If you try to argue, they will just shut your mouth with 'this is lesbophobia!'. Not that straight/bi women can't be shitty/oppressive to lesbians, cause yeah. Not arguing that lesbians have it hard(er), but it doesn't justify them being cruel.
This issue (among other things, like constant negativity and fear mongering, which was wrecking my already anxious and depressed mind) made me feel really burned out and stop following the movement.
It felt terrible to see women in the movement meant to support women and help them heal from male violence shit on one another because of sexual orientation.

No. 70866

I've noticed that. I've also noticed WoC "feminists" generally being cunts to white women.

No. 70867

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I remember the great drama when wlw were pissed that het radfems wanted to vent about issues with boyfriends and get advice that's not "just be celibate for the sake of politics" followed by "BTW OMG I love my gf" so they created a blog that was supposed to discuss het relationships from radfem perspectove. The screeching from lesbians could be heard everywhere. They were angry that they are excluded from some female safe space and attacked the blog. I still can't get over wlw arguing that if het women need safe space for their issues (which lesbians have condescended) then it means that it was created specifically as a lesbian-free safe space and how dare the straighties treat lesbians like predators!!! Also why would radfe need to talk about relationship with men when Cosmo exists, right? Reminder that the blog only was created so lesbians didn't have to stumble upon het content and problems. It got closed down quickly, which is a shame.

No. 70868

Agreed. Is Gail Dines het or not? She's probably the most likable radfem imo.

No. 70870

that has nothing to do with people accepting mentally ill men as women.

No. 70873

Yes, I'm bi and the amount of shit I got from some lesbians is astounding. Sometimes it gets seriously incel tier, just swap "women" with "bishits" and it's the same

No. 70942

So today I came across a post on MaleSurvivors.org where a transman was talking about being raped…as a woman. I wonder what all the feminists that get mad about guys intruding on "their" conversations about sexual assault would think of that.

No. 70956

I don't really understand what you're getting at or decide what you want to hear in response, can you expand a bit on your point?
Are they talking about how it was a terrible experience? Are they trivialising it? Where's your cap or source?

No. 70963

Sorry, I don’t think I was really expecting anything in particular in response. I just see a lot of anger against MtF for their appropriation of gendered experiences/spaces etc, and then randomly come across a FtM doing it (which I haven’t seen before).

Fail for caps, I was on my laptop yesterday and now I’m on my phone - there’s hundreds of entries on that site and I’d have no idea where to start. There was no trivialisation, just the fact that there are plenty of places for her to talk about being raped, why intrude on one of the few men can go to be brutally honest about their experience?

No. 70964

No I'm sorry, I realise my post reads really defensively.
I'm curious about the response to it, even if people maybe didn't voice their opinions that openly. Most people want to write about those experiences somewhere they feel a part of (eg girls vent on /g/) but even if they feel like a man, this seems like unnecessarily opening themselves to to rejection.
The male survivors forum seems to have a gai/bi/trans survivors subforum, I wonder whether the gay men all feel ok being bundled in with transmen, and removed from the straight?

No. 70971

I think that the prevailing views, both pro and contra, are wrong because both are lacking the understanding of the crux of the nature of the trans issue. It is not psychological in root, it is sociological and economical.

Feminism originally rose from the worker's movement and is inseparable from it. The relationship between the sexes in all cultures and throughout all history is defined by the division of labour between them (such as men work, women cook).

Communists and socialists first recognized this and were the pioneers of women's rights, but as capitalism triumphed over them winning the Cold War, the movement was stripped of it's essence.

The issue of gender in capitalism is just one of the myriad of socio-economical issues capitalism delegated to the individual (with such tools as "identity politics"). Post-cold war generations, for example, will become vegan instead of organizing to topple the meat industry with it's inhumane conditions. Much like people of that same generation will change their own gender instead of striving to change gender stereotypes and roles.

So, trans people are not people with mental issues*. Both cis and trans people are people with social issues with gender roles (ie. division of labour between genders). They're not sick. The system is sick.

*Anything not fitting the moras of the modern capitalist society deemed "a disorder" these days. It makes you believe you personally are the problem and stops you from finding faults in your surroundings. You are given "help" to "fit in" in the form of therapy and pills. Much like - no, exactly like - in Huxley' s Brave New World.

This is the first time I'm conveying these thoughts to other people. Not sure how well I conveyed my point. Please ask me for clarification, even better challenge my points, or at least state your reaction. I really really want to hone/change my stance and/or my delivery according to the feedback.

No. 70972

File: 1512128944272.jpg (41.34 KB, 474x600, l9KlS4K_d.jpg)

Shit, I should've at least posted an eye-catching picture with that, now I'm afraid nobody's going to thoroughly read my wall of text.

Here, have a socio-economically-aware funny pic as an incentive. Please read my whole post.

No. 70973

Samefag, sorry, I just realized I accidentally deleted the end point of this paragraph while editing my post:
>The issue of gender in capitalism is just one of the myriad of socio-economical issues capitalism delegated to the individual (with such tools as "identity politics"). Post-cold war generations, for example, will become vegan instead of organizing to topple the meat industry with it's inhumane conditions. Much like people of that same generation will change their own gender instead of striving to change gender stereotypes and roles.
Individual efforts bring only individual, limited results. The capitalist society is effectively quashing any movement that poses a real threat to it by making people internalize the problems (and supposed solutions) they face in this system, and thus correcting themselves, instead of organizing to correct the system.

>They're [trans people] not sick. The system is sick.
They're not sick. But they are a symptom of a sick society.

No. 70981

That’s the weird thing about that site - no one ever responds to posts. So these guys are just venting their deepest secrets out into nothingness. Kinda makes me feel like that trans-man was looking for…something but ended up being treated like every other guy on there. I get the comparison to /g/ though. Just think there’s also plenty of undedicated communities (like Tumblr) where a transman could speak about their experiences and receive support. I agree with you that it seemed unnecessary.

I didn’t notice that. I wonder too. There seems to be a lot on there fighting with their sexuality tbh, I don’t see the need for separation.

No. 70982

Never thought of it that way, but now I can't unsee it.

Would I be off course in thinking that transgenderism is tied to the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality in capitalism? They are doing what they can do to change themselves before trying to change the system of gender roles. It seems like that's what good little worker drones are raised to do.

No. 70983

>transgenderism is tied to the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality in capitalism?
Yes! Exactly! (In my humble opinion) Thanks for reminding me of that idiom (English is not my first language), it brings the point home without too many words.

No. 70996

not sure i entirely agree. i think trans as dysphoria is just dysphoria about sex organs and needs to be treated like dypshoria of anything else (don't get rid of it, get rid of the psychosis) but i agree about every other aspect, gender as a concept creates the whole 'grass is greener' thing.

it's funny how america pioneered the whole mutilation tactic for 'trans' people, other countries that have 'trans' people are just doing so to get rid of gays. but i guess the us is in love with genital mutilation (forced circumcision on minors, labioplasty, vaginaplasty and pressuring women after giving birth into all them etc) so…

No. 70997

i also wanted to add i've said the thing about vegans before in appropriate threads and got shit for it. so thanks for that too.

No. 71001

I'm not sure how to feel.

I've met people who genuinely seem like a right-brain-wrong-body situation, and I've met…well, "transtrenders" and other crybullies who use gender as a way of feeling special.

I also don't think anyone should be forced to sleep with anyone they don't find attractive/who has a sexual organ they're not into just to feel like they're "tolerant" or w/e. It seems kind of messed up that lesbians and straight men get shit for wanting to date cis women only.

No. 71004

Not giving you shit for it, but it’s not quite the same. The meat industry is a tangible thing that would definitely be defunct if everyone stopped eating meat. Gender roles are social concepts that will always exist because they created around tangible things (like physical appearance, personality traits, etc). It would be more apt to liken the vegan example to trying to eradicate biological sex.

Sage for definitely-a-vegan sperg.

No. 71006

No. 71010

Id like to start out that I support gender abolition. I don’t quite agree with sex ops or transitioning, but I respect and support it as long as it’s not without years of screening, prep and guidance to make absolutely sure it’s the right decision because if that’s what they really want to do, that’s up to them. I don’t think people should get so hung up on dressing their part because it seems trivial. Women already get this privilege to some degree, but not so much with men.

Men identifying as men should be able to dress effeminately and I think men like this often confuse themselves for being transsexual when they just like feminine things. Same for women who just like to wear masculine things.

I think a disassociating with the sex they’re born with is a legitimate thing, though, and people wishing to transition should be taken seriously and accepted into the sex they want to become after however long it takes to make sure the decision is really what they want.

I don’t think some people truly understand how much goes into being trans. People don’t just wake up one day, and snip of their dicks and throw on a skirt. It’s a long, difficult, crushing process and it’s making lives a lot harder than it needs to be by writing them off as all of those perverts trying to take advantage of the trans spotlight.

I support trans people wholeheartedly and I do agree that trans women should be allowed to use women’s restrooms. In fact, I’m sure that there already are trans women that use them that no one notices because no ones going to be looking at their dick/post-op vagina when they’re peeing.

There’s a difference between perverted men dressing up as women and trans women. I have a friend that has only ever wanted to be a woman. She wants to date guys and wear skirts, but she can’t do any of that without being afraid of getting her ass kicked and I think that, if she were to use a male assigned restroom when in feminine clothing, she’d very well get killed. All because some women who probably couldn’t tell if not for the unfortunate stubble, despite the tiny majority of trans people, don’t want her to run in and out of the restroom for a quick piss. I think it’d be helpful if they’re were some way to screen trans people for an extended period of time that would grant them access to the gendered spaces they identified with once approved.

Anyway, I don’t even believe that it’s a fear of being attacked or spied on. What of women that attack/prey on women that use our restrooms? Should lesbians that could literally care less about youre doing in the restroom be using the mens’ too? What of trans women being attacked in men’s restrooms? This isn’t a safety issue, I think it’s just transphobia.

I get that this view seems pretty far-left, but I think it’s wrong to write off an entire group of people that mean no harm as some sick creeps taking advantage of trans recognition.

No. 71011

gtfo of the thread. everything you've said is just shit rhetoric.

also, you like every other liberal sheep seems to think the issue is with being spied on by pervs when it's really a worry of rape, which is a power thing, so i don't doubt that those monsters would simply put on a wig and skirt if it means they'd have access to a woman alone in the bathroom.

fucking leave.

No. 71012

it's exactly the same because eating is a cultural/social thing and what's more, your argument is even less legit when you remember that eating meat is probably more ingrained than gender.

No. 71013


that's just dysphoria, should be treated with therapy to correct their feelings about themselves, not to correct themselves to match their feelings, that's so dangerous.

No. 71014

You might be incredibly far left leaning and supportive of trans rights, but believing in a destinction between real trans people that should be granted access and those that shouldn't is enough to have you branded a terf for "gatekeeping" etc. It's so frustrating

I believe the same as you and it's like my dreams of gender roles ever easing up are a pipe dream. I understand that it's not up to gender nonconforming individuals to bear the brunt of championing gender abolition and I don't get to dictate who is trans enough. I get is not ethical to expect people to risk their lives by just openly living outside of gender when they feel it's much safer to just become trans. However I wish that they would! I feel like the aggressiveness of the trans movement is reinforcing such stiff old fashioned gender roles that we're going back in time, and that voicing any gender critical thoughts has become suicide. I'm sick of hearing womanhood reduced to "I've just always liked skirts and lipstick.

No. 71016

The thing about bathrooms is - how could we even make sure who goes in is a "real" transwoman? Should we have a bouncer outside of every bathroom making judgments on who's just a perv in a dress and wig and who isn't? Screening who gets access to women's spaces isn't practical because there's no way to regulate it.

No. 71017


My point still stands

There’s a difference between a perv in a dress and a trans woman. Women also rape.

It still comes down to transphobia. You can not want rapists in your restroom obviously. I don’t want rapist in our restroom either. I could care less about a trans woman that just needs to take a piss.

Her trying to pee in a woman’s restroom won’t hurt you, but she’ll have hell trying to go the other route.

Yeah, it’s all really frustrating. I’ve been attacked on tumblr for mentioning stuff like this and it’s aggravating

I also know it’s hard for people to just wear what they wanted instead of attributing styles to a certain half of the population, but jeez, if no one does it it won’t become normal. It seems like a ridiculous thing to get riled up about, but that’s how it is. I think it’s changing though, the movement just moves like a glacier

I meant in an individual setting and the idea was idealistic. I wish there was such a way to allow them into those spaces seamlessly to make sure that they are who they say they are, but I certainly don’t know how to implement it.

I would think it’d be relatively simple treated the way any situation involving a suspicious person entering a restroom, though..

I’m sure it’d already be difficult to tell a trans woman from a woman other than looking slightly mannish. I mean, there are mannish women that I’m sure would feel offended if they were screamed at for being in a women’s restroom and I bet they’re more common than trans women entering them. I think that as long as they’re not inviting suspicion, it shouldn’t be a cause for concern. Trans women just aren’t that common anyway.

If someone was concerned about a suspicious person, it should be bought up with authorities. If it’s a guy in a skirt, then they’ll face consequences for intruding a womans’ space. If they’re trans, it shouldn’t be a problem.

We can’t distinguish female rapist from women, either, but we don’t have bouncers checking out every woman either. We should be focused on protecting women from rapists and pervs, not other women

It’d honestly be easier to make another restroom. Though it sounds like it’d be prone to hate crimes, Im sure there’d be shorter lines as a result.

No. 71018

Actually, I think trans people are already able to get their sex changed on their licenses in some states so there’s that I guess

No. 71020

You keep mentioning predatory women in female restrooms but is that even a phenomenon? Can you cite any instance where that's happened…?

No. 71022

>There’s a difference between a perv in a dress and a trans woman. Women also rape.
About 1% of rapists are female, even less of that 1% rape other women, however trans-identifying males have the same SA rates as the other males. A real woman is also much less likely to be able to defend herself against a trans-identifying male than another woman because of biological differences. Lots of their fellow men can't, how the fuck do you expect us to?

Doesn't matter whether he "looks like a girl" or not he isn't one, he is a male and he does not belong in female spaces. Fuck off, cocksucker.

No. 71028

you know how ridiculous that would be? would everyone have to show their license? is he gonna be screening them? what if he stops a cis woman and offends her for not being conventionally beautiful, what about people who don't have identification with them?? the idea that we should cater to a tiny portion of the population is fucking stupid, just make places have a gender neutral stall.

No. 71029

this, thanks for taking the words right out of my mouth. why make women suffer to cater to a small demographic and then put us in danger? fucking stupid.

No. 71030

File: 1512248722221.jpg (52.85 KB, 580x751, 9397654284554.jpg)

No. 71031

>eating is a cultural/social thing
I’m pretty sure it’s a “necessary for survival” thing actually, but you do you.

>eating meat more ingrained than gender

Maybe if you’re from the West. Most of Asia ate a vegetarian diet for most of recorded history. But obviously the world doesn’t exist outside of Europe kek

Sage because I’m not getting into a pointless argument about a throwaway example.

No. 71039


bisexuals are at fault for this tranny shit tho, you're the ones who brought these fucks into our spaces. you are the troons of sexualities.

No. 71040

File: 1512287399406.png (23.41 KB, 335x497, bitranshit.png)

No. 71041

and bisexuals calling lesbians incels is hysterical when you're the one in alliance with trannies whining how lesbians wont fuck you because of biphobia or trannyphobs or something.

No. 71042


The most recent changes in legislation in the US and Canada allowing people to change their sex designation on IDs and DLs does not require proof of sex or proof of transition. The sex designation is now self-designated.

Through legislation like this, the distinction between sex and gender is being abolished and the two terms conflated. Heretofore, the sex designation on identification has always referred to biological sex. Sex was considered an identifier.

Now there is a movement to allow self- and parental designation of sex on birth certificates.

No. 71043

No. 71045


Allowing people to self-designate their sex on government identification (conflating sex and gender) leads to police and media reporting of sex crimes to be misrepresentative and statistics on sex crimes to be skewed. Crimes committed by MtT who are legally designated as women are reported and counted as having been committed by women.

Should a MtT who assaults or rapes using his penis be considered a female sex offender?

No. 71046



This Never Happens is an archive for articles related to violent and sexual crimes committed by males who are posing as or claiming to be women. It is not a discussion group. Members may post articles, links, and brief fact-based descriptions of the incident. It is intended for public viewing and to be a resource to show people who tell women that this never happens.

No. 71047

File: 1512296887718.jpg (230.06 KB, 537x1920, tumblr_p0bpyyzNNA1r55eygo1_128…)

Just saw this post on tumblr and of course ALL the replies were about trans women getting uteri…

Yeah let's donate these organs to men who willigly destroyed their reproductive organs instead of, y'know, women born with conditions/who fell ill and as a result can't have children of their own…

Like, I would'nt have been mad if a couple of the replies were about "Great now trans women can get pregnant!!" but literally ALL of them were about trans women and none about cis women without uteri… trans women are so selfish.

No. 71049

No. 71051

Seeing shit like this reminds me of the time someone compared the whole trans debate to lobotomy - back in the day lobotomy was considered to be a cure-all treatment for difficult cases of mental issues, especially schizophrenia. After it was noted as a promising treatment with good results and an admirable survival rate, they started performing the procedure even on children. A few decades later meds for psychological conditions were developed and lobotomy was considered a dangerous, barbaric way of causing irreversible physical damage and non-satisfactory results.

It's a Federalist article (I know) but definitely worth the long read. http://thefederalist.com/2017/03/29/10-ways-transgender-push-mirrors-lobotomy-craze/

"This study analyzed the content of popular press articles on lobotomy between the years 1935 and 1960. Both a qualitative and quantitative analysis provided evidence that the press initially used uncritical and sensational reporting styles, with the content of articles on lobotomy becoming increasingly negative through time. The initial positive bias occurred despite opposing views in the medical community, which provided a basis for more balanced coverage. These findings support the theory that biased reporting in popular press articles may have been a factor influencing the quick and widespread adoption of lobotomy as a psychiatric treatment."
Sound familiar?

No. 71052

I know, it sucks. It doesn't matter whether the guy uses his penis or not, he shouldn't be considered a female sex offender because he isn't one.

No. 71056

Has the schism between transexual separatists and the transgender movement been discussed?

Transsexual separatists believe that they suffer from Harry Benjamin Syndrome, or "true transsexuality".

The term "transsexual" is now regarded as pejorative by the transgender movement.

No. 71058

yes this sounds familiar to literally every controversial treatment for fucking everything that comes out of shithole countries like america. circumcision, electrotherapy, sexual reassignment surgery, all of which are still done. it's fucked.

No. 71060

File: 1512318275823.jpg (8.13 KB, 265x275, nocorrelation.jpg)

Okay, I'll bite:
These posts make no sense, are you from /lgbt/? SOME lesbians (before you go #NotAllLesbians) are in fact unreasonably aggressive towards bisexuals, calling them scum, sluts, cocksuckers, saying that they should die etc. AND blame them for stuff that wasn't in any way their fault (just like you're doing now). Such behavior is creepy similar to what incels and robots do with women, and that's true. No one brought the trannies along, they butted in themselves.

No. 71061

Electroconvulsive therapy does have good results on bipolar and chronic and treatment resistant depressions. It's done under sedation, now and way less barbaric than before.

No. 71063


how many times have i heard bis telling me i should die and suck dick because i am dried up dyke and if i had good dicking i wouldn't be such a bitch? how often i have heard that i am a rugmunching hairy cup drinking disgusting pervert from bis?

also the picture i posted shows how bis are the ones allying with trannies. bis who keep sucking tranny dick are the ones keeping up their delusion they should score with lesbians. bis are the people behind this heart not parts no ones genitals mean anything you should love to have sex with all genitals shit.

lmao piss off idiot incel = whiny baby who cries over not getting pussy which bis and trannies are doing. bis are constantly whining about lesbians not dating them because lesbians are elitist and biphobic for only wanting top date other lesbians.

No. 71064


sorry for your bisexuality but what i say is the truth

No. 71069


So the women here who are bi and identify as radical feminists or who are at least gender critical are unicorns?

The last time I checked, I do not shit rainbows.

No. 71073

You… realize that LGBT communities as a whole ally with trannies, do you? Which includes gay and lesbians too. You're delusional.
Also, the ones saying "genitals don't mean anything" are pansexuals, not bisexuals.

This. Anons is clearly unwell in the head

No. 71077

>realize that LGBT communities as a whole ally with trannies, do you? Which includes gay and lesbians too

LOL No, we don't. Bs and Trannies attached themselves to the movement by force and have taken over all the LGBT organizations. There are no Gay or Lesbian voices in any LGBT~ media anymore. It's just straight men posing as trannies, bi women posing as lesbians and straight battered girls calling themselves kinky and queer.

Actual lesbians and gay men have been pushing to drop both B and T for ages now and we stay away from LGBT spaces.

No. 71084

I hope you're right because the tumblr types are very vocal and very keen to shut down anyone who dares be gender critical. I know I'd be frothing at the fucking mouth at the T becoming part of the concept by default, as if they have anything to do with sexual orientation or deserve any of the support gay people do.

No. 71086

When the T was added, there were no gendertrenders. For the most part, the people who came to identify as transsexual previously identified a gay because there were a mere handful of transsexual people in existence in the West. Thus the acceptance of transsexual people in the LGB community was an organic development.

Did anyone here read Alison Bechdel's strip "Dykes to Watch Out For"? I often wonder how she would approach the current messy state of things if she were still drawing it.

Sage for old enough to have been an adult during the end of the Second Wave to find modern feminism and transactivism an utter betrayal.

No. 71090

You speak the truth.

No. 71091

LOL yes, you do.
Everything else you said is bullshit easily debunkable by checking into the first LGBT community in sight, or having just any experience with them.
I'd also add that bisexuals hardly have anything in common with trannies, but with a person who makes such ridiculous claims as the ones you made it would be utterly useless.
Do not bring that shit into this website, anyway

No. 71094

Bisexuals are typically the TAs, the ones who don't believe in biological sex, the ones fucking trannies, and the ones shaming real lesbians for not fucking them

No. 71095

File: 1512407269963.png (216.37 KB, 393x391, 1504376352081.png)

>you are the troons of sexualities
>you're in alliance with trannies
>whining about how lesbians wont fuck you because of biphobia
>the ones who don't believe in biological sex, the ones fucking trannies, and the ones shaming real lesbians for not fucking them
Top kek, /lgbt/ spotted. Bring your conspiracy theories about bisexuals causing the plague with you and kindly return to your lesbot loony bin, please. We don't want that shit here

No. 71099

Truth. So far datalounge and lchat are the only online places you can be homosexual and exist in peace. And we still get invaded by trannies and Bs all the time.

No. 71100

guys calm down, we're talking about trannies, not sexualities.

No. 71102

/lgbt/ards can't contain themselves from sperging as soon as they see a bisexual, ignore and report

No. 71104

What are your opinions on agenders and asexuals, anons?

Personally, I think they don't exist because hormones. They're just special snowflake labels imho.

But I'd love to hear your opinions.

No. 71105

I believe they exist, if their are sexual people, they've got to be non-sexual ones. I don't think it's by default "special snowflake", the ones that make me roll my eyes though are the thousand variations for Grey-Asexual (do you really need that many labels?) And, Demisexual, that just sounds like friendship.
I understand identifying as both genders, but neither? I don't know.

No. 71106

asexual can be real, as long as it's just lack of sex drive due to any number of medical issues, it's not a sexuality however, just a symptom of something or other. agender and other nonbinary shit, is garbage and makes no sense. it either relies on biological sex and gender to be different things, which discredits trans as a whole, or relies on them to be the same, which discredits them. agenders tend to take the idea of gender as a fucking law and are super hypocrites.

No. 71107

>asexual can be real, as long as it's just lack of sex drive due to any number of medical issues, it's not a sexuality however, just a symptom of something or other
Great point.

No. 71108

I believe you can break up asexuals into 2 distinct groups:

1. Autistic people. A HUGE percentage of aces are on the spectrum. Autism and asexuality/low sex drive/sexual disinterest are often co-morbid.

2. Rape/abuse trauma survivors. It is completely legitimate that trauma survivors would be physically and/or psychologically adverse to sexual activity.

I know there are rare exceptions to this rule, but in my experience pretty much anyone who claims to be asexual without meeting one or both of the above criteria is almost certainly memeing for attention.

Agenderism is a weird one. Although the term itself is made up tumblr garbage, there are a few people out there who get surgeries to have no genetalia ("nullo" they're called). But I'm not sure if that warrants a whole new sexual identity or if it's just a subset of extreme bodily modification.

No. 71113

Why would you report someone just for having a different opinion AND discussing it with you in a thread that's specifically for discussion? You're a complete tard. I absolutely agree with most of the things lesbian anons have said about bisexuals and I'm bisexual myself. I'm sorry if the truth hurts your feefees

No. 71114

I don't think they really exist, I think the majority of asexuals are young people who are late bloomers and feel pressured by the heavy focus on sex in society to the point where they need to label themselves as devoid of any sexual feelings. Everyone has become so much more open about sex nowadays, and that's not necessarily a bad thing but it means that a lot of teens and young adults who haven't experienced any sexual attraction yet will feel even more abnormal and will flock to something to define themselves by. I used to think I was asexual for that very reason, and even today I still have a very low sex drive but I don't think it's possible to be completely asexual outside of medical issues.

And agenderism is just a self-esteem/identity finding thing that's popular among teens. I also used to think I was agender lmao, I was badly affected by tumblr stuff back in the day.

No. 71119

Thought this was a radfem thread not a homophobia thread. Aren't most radfems lesbians?

No. 71121

No. 71122

Since when? How can you acknowledge how shitty men are, yet still want to associate with them?

Samefagging to add that Bs really are the tranny cocksuckers. It's definitely not straights or gays, they don't want to fuck troons and if they did, they'd be bi. Bs tend to act like they speak for everybody in the lgb community too, a lot of them (but #notallofthem) are shit. Never been on /lgbt/ in my life, just saying.

No. 71123

because sexuality isn't something you choose due to shitty experiences with one sex or the other. are you seriously going to come in here and devalue sexuality?

No. 71124

Since forever. Because political lesbianism is retarded.

No. 71125

your implication that people can just change their sexual preference at will is literally the exact same bullshit that the trans activists we're talking about are spewing

No. 71133


Top comment, anon!

Asexuality may also result from a personality trait of a personality disorder such as Schizoid or Avoidant.

No. 71134


Hi, Valerie!

No. 71136


I guess that came out wrong. I don't even remember what I was trying to say because I was tired when I wrote it, so my bad. Meant that part about Bs though.

No. 71140

Just fuck off already

No. 71141

File: 1512475382336.jpg (135.8 KB, 300x444, 17980.jpg)

No. 71143

This thread is full of sad bis reeeing because they can't admit they're the main cause why trannies are being praised nowadays. Not only reeeeing, but also saying they want to ban people who disagree with them. Are you just a newfag or a softie who can't hear people who disagree with you? The truth is there to be seen, and realistically speaking you will most likely end up with a dude anyway because most "bisexuals" in this thread are probably girls who find lesbian sex hot or experimented with a woman once or twice just to never do it again. I've barely even commented on this thread, but I'm outta here. You can rejoice now, but I hope you know your bullshit can't change the facts.

No. 71145

This is just embarrassing.

No. 71146

I wonder how much your mind would blow if you found out there are many bisexual radfems out there that would rather not fuck a tranny.

No. 71147

you mean like the fact that this thread is about gross trannies, you know, dudes with dicks trying to force lesbians to dick them, but of course bi girls who girls actually want to have sex with are the worst here right. clearly these dick having men dressed as women don't fetishize women or lesbians or anything.

No. 71148

Because it's thread derailment, retard. Look at the topic of the thread. Sperganon got literally triggered by a days old post, who got their feefees hurt?
Also, you can stop agreeing with yourself now, "bisexual anon"


How many times will you keep pretending to be different anons? Lmao "I've barely commented on this thread", embarrassing.

Agender is special snowflake label, but asexual, as other anons said, is a thing and is imputable to medical issues like depression, autism, ADHD etc.

No. 71152

While discussion is allowed, derailing a thread to this extent is against the rules.
This isn't debating, it's a straight out mess.
So this is just a warning for now so just chill out.

No. 71189

And here I was expecting this thread to be derailed by the MtTs and genderqueers.

No. 71200

File: 1512578726509.png (352.46 KB, 700x500, trans.png)

It's sad that women are putting the blame on each other. I'm bi and I think lesbians can be unnecessarily hostile sometimes. But I also get that lesbians are tired of being told they need to be inclusive of males.

I used to believe that everyone was at least a bit bi and I think many bisexuals continue to believe that. Making LGB more inclusive and redefining it as "queer" has enabled trans activism. Everyone has to be included in everything. That's how we've ended up with male lesbians. But we shouldn't blame each other.

There are reasonable transsexuals too who can be allies like Miranda Yardley for example: http://mirandayardley.com/en/transwomen-are-not-women/

Most trans activists have decided to blame women for their problems and now women are blaming each other too but the real problem has always been male violence. Trans activists spend all their time attacking "TERFs" when it's men who are murdering trans people. Let's not do the same thing and stop blaming each other.

No. 71201

if mtt people have it 'so much worse' than real women then why are they trying to force themselves into women's issues? shit like sexism, rape, sexual harassment i will never agree with, but i think mtt have it worse because they had someone validate their psychosis by having them destroy their genitals.

No. 71205

>it's men who are murdering trans people
This. For everything I know a TERF has never actually hurt a trans person. TERFs just want a women-only feminism, they're not beating trannies down the street, murdering them or taking their rights away. So why all this "Le punch TERFs tehehe" bs when there's men actually murdering them?
I'm afraid the answer would be "Because they're still woman hating pricks who wouldn't stand a fight with another man, but are cowardly enough to assault women"

They can have it bad, especially in third world countries where you hear of trannies being killed in gruesome ways almost everyday, but the same happens to women in those places so it's not very telling. Trannies face problems, but it's trans related problems. Unless they're 100% passing I doubt any of them can actually experience misogyny.

No. 71217

>the real problem has always been male violence
Absolutely, and in the end 'transphobia' (the real shit, like them getting beat up) is just a combination of sexism and homophobia. Men don't like feminine men or masculine women, and we all know what happens when men don't like things. It's legit discrimination and I think any feminist would recognize that, yet trans activists are taking a step backwards by refusing to accept that gender roles are what need to be fixed, not making people blindly accept that we can arbitrarily decide we're the opposite sex.

No. 71227

if they really are women as they say, why are you "transphobic" against them, wouldn't that just be interalized misogyny? (sarcasm)

No. 71258

I think I started reading into the trans debate shortly after I heard about Leelah Alcorn. I remember being so upset at what happened. How could you help people like that?

And how do they justify all the violent threats against terfs? Terfs aren't killing transwomen? Is it the 'harmful ideology leads to violence' argument? Saying that women don't have dicks isn't violence. Saying 'choke on my tranny cock and die' sounds goddamn violent to me.

I want dysphoric people to recover, but I'm scared of saying anything because it's like these people shut down completely if anyone says something gender critical.

No. 71265

>I want dysphoric people to recover

i think everyone wants this, but the way we go about it is to feed into it. we tell them yes, your body is wrong, fix it, something is wrong with your brain, you're a girl, so they get this idea that they are actually a girl all along that needed to be fixed. we don't help them recover in their own bodies, their recovery is to give into their demands.

No. 71266


I agree with you. Recovery is a lot harder though anon, and for some it’s so deeply entrenched that attempts to recover them could be seen as abusive (due to emotional trauma it causes). Other mental disorders don’t get the same acceptance though; you are still expected to some extent to “recover”, you’re not allowed to just build a life that suits you the way trans people can.

No. 71275

i think it's become this way because of acceptance, they're enabled so much that they end up demanding more than people with other kinds of dypshoria. dysphoria is caused by psychosis and while difficult, it should be treated as such. trans feelings stem from delusion, the delusion is what stems from real emotional or mental issues. by ignoring that you're not even addressing let alone fixing the core problem.

No. 71291

Absolutely. But it’s not acceptable to point out that it’s delusional anymore. Maybe we should start applying this to all mentally disordered people? Schizophrenics deserve to have their grandeur and delusions validated right, because living with it is hard! /s

No. 71293


And now an increasing faction of transtrender activists claim that they do not experience dysphoria and that dysphoria is not a criteria for being transgender.

The increase in people medically transitioning without the psych evaluations that were a prerequisite in the past or even a DSM 5 diagnosis of dysphoria is due to the informed consent model of care being replaced by the gatekeeping model in recent years. These are the people who end up detransitioning.

Medical journal reading:

Op-ed reading:

Meanwhile, the transsexual separatists who identify as suffering from Harry Benjamin Syndrome (which is not a medically recognised condition) appear to be declining in numbers. This may be because they are older and are dying off. But they were never particularly vocal or activist in the first place because they desire to be private.

No. 71357

File: 1512946215192.png (38.5 KB, 663x372, transtypes.png)


This is a long article but worth it imo. It explains the different types of gender dysphoria. Most people involved in the discussion haven't got a clue and follow trans activists in a misguided attempt to be progressive.

There are three main types:
> gender non-conforming children who will most likely grow up to be gay
> adult men who get aroused by the fantasy of being a woman
> troubled teenage girls (but also some boys) who get wrapped up in the current transgender craze

No. 71379

Oh my God of course a man insisting he has a lady-essence and everyone needs to respect that or they're a bigot has a psychological issue. And often AGP. Nothing sociological or economical about it.

Sure there is a sociological aspect to trannies, if people grow up hearing 'toy trucks are for boys' and they like to trucks a girl might conclude she's a boy. But it's still a psychological issue when she's pathologically dissatisfied with her own healthy female body or when she feels like killing herself b/c others don't regard her as something she's not (male/a man).

> Both cis and trans people are people with social issues with gender roles (ie. division of labour between genders)

if cis ppl had social issues with gender roles they wouldn't be cis.

By definition cis means you're happy with your gender assigned at birth.

Which is why it's such bullshit when trannies call women 'cis'. Or when they insist radfems are closeted transmen because they're not happy facing sexism.

No. 71381

File: 1512983706935.png (34.97 KB, 584x533, TERFs.png)

Reminder that this is your typical peace-loving pro lgbtq feminist

No. 71386

this shit bothers me so much cause these people are ruining their bodies because gatekeepers and shitty activists refuse to believe and understand science. why is this crap so prevalent in USA? it's like americans don't want to believe anything.

No. 71387

kek they really nailed it
it's sad to see so many women going along with the "trans women are women" thing because they "feel like a woman" when at its very premise they have no way to know what it feels like to BE a woman, it's just a fantasy

No. 71389

This is why I can't support trans activism anymore.

>informed consent

Anyone who believes that it's possible to change a person's sex is very obviously uninformed.

>many centers that provide hormone replacement therapy (HRT), including the Planned Parenthood

I'm not American but I thought PP was meant to be a health care provider for women? Why are they even involved in this? Why does everyone have to cater to transwomen?

>de-medicalize the experience of transgender individuals

People who transition rely on medical treatment for life. How can this possibly be de-medicalised? Later on, the article compares it to erectile dysfunction, so when it's convenient it's a medical issue again. Never mind that erectile dysfunction can be observed while gender dysphoria can't because trans activists oppose having any objective criteria. Also, Viagra isn't permanant like gender reassignment.

The worst part is how activists drag children into this. Gender dysphoria in children is linked with adult homosexuality rather than adult transsexualism. Enabling these children is gay conversion therapy yet LGBT activists are cheering it on.

No. 71397

>why is this crap so prevalent in USA? it's like americans don't want to believe anything.
It's because America doesn't have a tax-funded medicare like some other countries do, their medical trends are driven by money. If enough people are made to believe they're trans, they come for the certain clinics and practitioners to seek help. And pay them lots of money. If the word spreads that one clinic is easier on the hormone/SRS treatments, the word spreads and they make more money. If people are made more aware of transgenderism, they will start thinking they need the expensive treatments too. There's nothing more complicated to it.

And according to studies, 90% of the children grow eventually out of it. And according to another study, transgenderism strongly correlates with autism who are prone to hyperfixation, in this case their gender. Kids with OCD has been found to have the same symptoms. And these crazy ass parents are starting to socialize their kids as the opposite gender when they want to play with the "wrong kind" of toys as a 2-year old.

No. 71398

americans also still routinely circumcise infants and children with 'issues' without consent or even parental consent, and act as if it's no big deal. so i am not surprised they're fine with roping this gender stuff into the mix since they're already actively mutilating gentials on unwilling minors and uninformed parents. iirc they used to 'gender' intersex people without even parental consent until the 80s or 90s and wouldn't even tell them their kid was intersex at all.

i also agree that it's the same as conversion therapy. i am having a hard time understanding the trans platform anymore.

>sex is defined by gender and gender roles

>but you can be the wrong gender somehow too
>but gender and sex are connected

i don't get it.

No. 71415


Samefag. That should have read:

The increase in people medically transitioning without the psych evaluations that were a prerequisite in the past or even a DSM 5 diagnosis of dysphoria is due to the informed consent model of care replacing the gatekeeping model in recent years.

No. 71492

I hated being called a terf but now I don't care. The only women who call me a Terf are the women who can't think for themselves and let men in dresses walk all over them. The rest are men. You would be surprised how many trans women are moderators of women-oriented forums/subreddits

While I don't think it's a huge deal because there are so few of them I do think it's troubling how much influence they can gain to change laws. If some employer found out I was a Terf they probably wouldn't care because most normal people secretly are against transgender movement anyway or they think it's rooted in fantasy.

No. 71525

Do you usually use words you don't understand without even sounding them aloud and realizing it makes no sense?

I'm sure you meant b& and you should be

No. 71527

LMAO you alt-right men who silently support us because you guys are too scared to do anything else! If you really hate trannies and really aren't bitchmade then actually help stop this shit. You guys don't have to deal with female to male transgender nonsense because they can't do shit to you. Trans men don't try to redefine manhood because they can't beat you guys up. Period.

Go back 2 r9k you can't sit with us

No. 71530

Shh, don't encourage retards to back us up. They don't give a shit about the sexism trans activism is rooted in, they just hate men in dresses. They will only discredit what we're trying to argue by ACTUALLY being bigots.

No. 71539

File: 1513345457323.png (2.48 KB, 418x66, you dense motherfucker.PNG)

Happy to hear, it's always good to know a few men are still sane

I used to go on tumblrinaction a lot to see the dumb SJW bullshit but lately everyone in there seems to be TERF-hating and trans-loving. And they have no fucking idea what the fuck they're talking about, pic related.

If anyone needs any more proof that trans is misogynistic as fuck, look at the people who are in favor of it. Even men who "hate all SJWs equally" will still defend trannies because a man is a man is a man.

No. 71541

what is a typo?

No. 71542

the enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that.

No. 71544

Alt-righters are still our enemies though. Most of them would rather support trans than women anyway. Some anti-sjws and sjws are starting to work together to oppose terfs.

No. 71545

i know i wasn't being serious, lol

No. 71626

File: 1513489577417.jpg (47.41 KB, 634x423, 475F87DC00000578-5185209-image…)

TFW you find yourself agreeing with the readership of the Daily Fail.


No. 71665

This story is insane. They need help not hormones.

No. 71686

So i'm just going to say my stance.
>I believe that it's possible for someone to feel like the wrong gender sometimes without it being a big factor in their life warranting a huge song and dance and calls for INCLUSIVITY and special snowflake extra-gender terms
>I also feel like some people genuinely feel a dysphoria between their bodies and their minds and that living as the opposite gender is good for their well being and includes being accepted as the opposite gender.
>I believe it's only "legitimate" if you feel this dysphoria
>I believe it is a mental disorder
>Mental disorder isn't an insult it's a good way to push for it to be better recognized and taken seriously and thus normalized
>I sometimes feel like the wrong gender to the point where I cry about it once in awhile but i'm ultimately fine with my body and being a girl and wouldn't be happy living as a boy, i'd just feel like an ugly girl
>I feel like trans people deserve the same rights as any other person. The same, not uneven.
>I think just making a third bathroom would solve the problem while also letting men with daughters/women with sons use public restrooms without any awkwardness as well (anyone else get stared at through the crack of a stall by a young boy? it's fucking creepy that's what I want to stop tbh)
>I don't believe there's a third gender and any legitimate trans person agrees because they don't want to be seen as an "other" they want to be seen as the gender they identify as. I think if we can all accept that, who cares what people do with their lives?
>Biological sex should be taken seriously with medical documentation but not so much legal documentation (i.e. signing a contract for a cable subscription for a small example)
>Ultimately the moment we stop giving a shit is the moment it gets better for all sides. Just treat other human beings like human beings

I want to get to the point where everyone can hear "Oh i'm actually a girl" and the response is "Oh. Well, anyway.." and not much time is spent on it. Same with gays and like literally any kind of difference.

Honestly I think terfs only exist because they're just sick of having to include transwomen in every single discussion of women, or transmen in discussions of pregnancy and menstruation because it detracts from the point of the argument. Just ASSUME you're included unless otherwise specified.

No. 71720

i think you'll find most people agree with this, but the actual issue is treating it in a way that promotes their mental illness, especially with such an invasive procedure that is essentially just mutilation. literally everyone feels detached from their gender (other than those who are just trying too hard) but that's no cause for medical concern. dysphoria on the other hand is already a medical issue elsewhere and has always been treated by trying to fix the disordered thought rather than cater to them. that's the real issue. otherwise i agree here.

No. 71931

I'm typically pretty respectful with what other people choose to identify as and used to be super against TERFs as well. But I do agree with the following ideas:

*A lot of supposed MTFs are really just offensive caricatures of what they think women look and act like and it's more of a weird fetish.
*A lot of people who think they're trans or "non binary" just don't fit into societal gender roles - like just because you're a woman or man who isn't stereotypically as feminine or masculine as you're expected to be doesn't necessarily make you trans.
*"Non binary" really isn't a thing (see above) and 99% of the people I see doing this make no effort to present as anything other than their assigned gender yet get triggered when referred to as such?

No. 71955

Posted this elsewhere but I think a copy here would be good

>Does it boil down to "I find trannys disgusting and probably most women are like me, so therefore I actually have a good reason to demand that transvestites are banned from AGDQ"?

No it boils down to the fact that trannys are disgusting, awful people throwing their fetish in everyone's face. That kind of bullshit should not be welcome at GDQ. I honestly wonder if all trans support is simply a façade to prevent twitter lynching from other mentally ill retards.

Also want to point out that I am certainly not a 'radical' feminist, but I subscribe to Trans-Exclusionary Feminism (Why does everything have to be so extreme politically these days?)

No. 71966


"Radical" does not mean "extreme" in this usage. The core tenets of Radical Feminism are the same as those of the Second Wave.

No. 72143

the level of desillusion is too fucking high. they see themselves as lolicon catgirls when they are balding obese men who learnt how to be ''women'' from 3D porn. /saged for irrevelant

No. 72173

The ugly autistic men seem to expect to become attractive girls and often kill themselves when they realise all they've gained is an Uncanny Valley aspect to their ugliness.

No. 72294

File: 1514634331609.png (63.59 KB, 316x202, 1464363094541.png)

Someone in another thread said Magdalen Berns isn't going to make it much longer from her cancer, can anyone confirm?

No. 72296

File: 1514635274461.jpg (112.62 KB, 983x800, 1513556762146.jpg)

Is anyone else convinced that it's mostly anime that's causing this shit?

No. 72297

No. 72298

>draw a girl call it boy
>men think it works this way irl
porn is a hell of a drug

No. 72324

I can't understand for the life of me why trannies should be allowed to post here. This is "girl talk" not "genetic failure cosplays as girl" talk.

No. 72400


All hail the TERF QUEEN!

No. 72449

It makes me happy knowing that TERF believes will never gain mainstream acceptance in the real world outside of isolate communities on imageboards and hugbox communities.
Have fun being driven into extremism, along with pushing all normal people away as you isolate yourselves from the real world and stay in your hugbox due to your irrational fear about being raped by a tranny. People see you guys and think you're absolutely bonkers.

Inb4: "U are a tranny" I am not.

No. 72450

oh the irony

No. 72451


In the real world outside of radical feminist groups, it's still not going to gain any acceptance. Even the term radical feminist drives people away.
Most people don't spend their time thinking or obsessing over trannies, it's fair to say that most terfs think about trannies more than trannies think about themselves.

All I'm saying is good luck gaining any mainstream acceptance when you offer no real solutions and the TERF community, isn't going to do anything or try to make any real changes other than complain on corners of the internet.

No. 72452


I think "TERFs" are probably the only people pushing for a cure for this mental illness. They see that womens' spaces and voices are being taken away from them by whiny men who want validation, and don't want womanhood to turn into a caricature. Everyone else seems to plug their ears and scream "BIGOTRY" and shuts down any possible discourse, it's important to have opinions of actual women in the conversation.

No. 72453


You're right, your biggest allies are evangelicals and neo-nazis. You better hope their base keeps going strong.
All other feminist groups have people in academia which can influence people, good luck getting a TERF professor into any non-religious privately funded right wing college, who doesn't immediately raise concerns with the administration about their academic reliability or credibility.
Yes, I believe in having a "conversation" but if your idea of a conversation involves circlejerking on the internet, it's not going to get anywhere. You're called "Bigots" because most people don't care and think that thinking about transgender people and portraying them the way that you're trying to is a bit silly at the least, bigoted at the most.

No. 72454

you're an idiot. trans ideology is a symptom of male hatred against women. women's boundaries are being pushed further and further. you dont wanna be exposed to male genitalia in the changing rooms? b i g o t! you dare saying women are the only people who can get pregnant and give birth? wow, calm down there Terfie. Why do you think it's acceptable for married middle aged men to think they are 20 year old bimbos?

No. 72455

I'm not going to argue with you since there's really no point, I just came here to laugh at TERFs online, but those types of arguments are why you'll never gain any acceptance among anyone who's not prone to fearmongering tactics with and who aren't socially isolated from the real world, people will find them ridiculous.

Just came to primarily point out that you'll never gain mainstream acceptance or have any real societal impact.

No. 72456

a tranny going on about how radical feminism will never have mainstream acceptance kek. 95% of normies think you're all freaks in dresses. thank god the hrt you trannies pump themselves with doesn't allow you to pass on your psychotic genes

No. 72457


Nice job, 10/10 argument, not a tranny though. I already know what the next argument is going to be "MALE REEEEEEEEE", I'll just spare the effort and state that I have a vagina and I was born with a pussy.

No. 72458

then how about you go back to telling your beautiful transbian gf how much of a beautiful and ~real~ woman she is? you handmaidens are as pathetic as trannies themselves

No. 72459

also sorry for samefagging but since you're obviously bullshitting, im just gonna teach you that actual women don't say about themselves ''i have a vagina and i was born with a pussy'' btw

No. 72460


You do know that my main purpose is to laugh at you, correct. If personal attacks and false statements is your idea of a "discussion", then that's probably why the real world outside of the internet finds you insane.
I like most people who have ran across a terf have even given up trying to have a "discussion" or any sort of discourse online since anytime anyone does it always ends up with them resorting to personal attacks when they don't have an argument, and I'm not going to change any of their minds.

I'm headed out, have a good night and I hope you all had a happy new years. Don't go outside or the trannies will eat you.

No. 72462

lol what, chicks don't talk like this you gross fucking dude

No. 72463


Obviously, not true. We sometimes call our vaginas pussy, especially when being sarcastic.
Headed out for real, probably won't respond to more attacks on if "You're a man, or calling me a tranny, tranny lover, etc", so you can spare the effort or not, doesn't matter to me.

No. 72464


Most people are too polite to say that they agree one hundred percent with other women when it comes to tranny fetishists. My aunt went into a bathroom in Florida recently at a Marshall's to keep an eye on my niece because one of you loser faggots was cooing while adjusting his tuck, and making eye contact with all the women at the sink. She's a big ass butch who doesn't take too much shit from anyone.

I guess you can probably expect how well it went for your tranny friend.

You are delusional. You will never be anything but a dude. If you're a woman, enjoy your status as sub par. Either way, you're an idiot.

No. 72465

Obviously, agp.

No. 72475

File: 1514831039505.gif (4.03 MB, 480x270, 1465797690_giphy.gif)

>I have a vagina and I was born with a pussy.

kek whatever you say faggot

No. 72571


There's actually a pretty interesting essay on this, written by a dude who says he experienced a mild form of it: https://medium.com/@rftbk/masculinity-anime-and-gender-dysphoria-8d682abcec54

No. 72574

Isn't it basically fact at this point? I mean many women also suffer from dysphoria or dismorphic body image issues due to anime. (many cosplayers getting plastic surgery, excessive photoshop, anorexia) obviously autogyns will want to be kawaii anime girls. anime girls are aesthetically pleasing

No. 72602

I once had an extremely traumatic experience with a tranny male in the bathroom and the worst part is, nobody is taking my trauma seriously. I'm terrified in even going out now or using public bathrooms due to that fear.

About a year ago, I was in the bathroom, and a tranny man or an ugly woman came in, used the stall, came out, washed his hands and left. People tell me that it's not that big of a deal but I was terrified and people don't understand how traumatic it was and how I should just get over it. It was horrible.

No. 72603

It may have just been an ugly woman, but even if you are a woman with masculine features, you should try to avoid upsetting or getting yourself in that environment if you may upset others or typically get mistaken for a man.

No. 72609


Omg anon, I'm so sorry, that sounds horrible. I don't know how to handle the situation where there's uncertainty of if someone is a male or an actual woman who looks like a male but i have been thinking and a security checkpoint in women's restrooms in highly populated areas where they check if there is any concerns to see if you have a penis or a vagina. There could be a room that people go to attached to the restroom but is seperate that you have to enter where a female can check in a private enviroment before allowing you into the restroom.
What are the thoughts on that suggestion? that way biological women don't get mistaken for men and men have to use their own restroom.
It may be a dumb idea but just something I thought.

No. 72610

>>72609 nice trolling tranny-kun

No. 72611

>>72609 who are you trying to fool anyway? tons of radfems are gender non-conforming lesbians. doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell a male apart from a female

No. 72612

Im going to guess that its a dumb idea then. It was just something I considered to avoid the problem with biological women being mistaken as men because it maybe a problem since I have seen some women at times often middle aged or androgynous women where im unsure at times.
I would be willing to go through a checkpoint if it helps improve saftey and keep men out but I was thinking it sounded dumb but would be a possible option.

No. 72618

You're suggesting that women prove they have their genitals just to use the restroom. Yes it's a dumb idea.

No. 72623

I'm not against a woman being non-confirming at all, but I have concerns that gay men will see women being non-confirming and be like "Well, these people are allowed to push past gender boundaries, it's okay for me to too."

I mean, I'm not saying it's wrong but I don't want men to think that it's okay for them to wear a dress because non-gender confirming lesbians are trying redefine what gender means to them.

I think its better to avoid being gender non-confirming and be comfortable in your own gender then encouraging men to think its okay to be gender non-confirming and act feminine. Like, why do they have to define themselves as gender non-confirming anyway, can't they just be a lesbian who wears shirts and pants?

I'm not against it for women, I'm just concerned that gay men will think it's okay to be gender non-confirming if we allow women to be too gender nonconfirming because "women can do it, why can't we do it too?"

No. 72627

you make some good points anon, but the thing is that we need to find some way to say that it's okay for women to avoid being confined into gender norms and gender roles without having men think that its okay to act "feminine", wear a dress, call themselves a woman, or expect others to call themselves a woman.
how can we find some way to allow women to be gender nonconfirming while telling men that they should be happy with being a man? I dont want men to feel like its okay for them to wear makeup or dresses, or feel comfortable expressing gender norms that women should be able to as much as anyone else here, but i don't want to have women feel like they should be confined to their gender.
I dont want to tell men that its okay to be comfortable being a male because of toxic masculinity which is problemetic but i dont want them to be comfortable wearing a dress either.

No. 72628

Oh the horror of… men wearing dresses? I think you've missed the point of why most people who are critical of trans ideology are against men calling themselves women.

No. 72630

I'm a TERF because I'm against men wearing dresses too. Most of us are and we don't want to put up with that deviance.
Do you really want to start saying that it's okay for a man to wear a dress? No. We need to stop encouraging this behavior and if you think that it is okay then you're probably part of the problem.
Do you really think the TERF movement is going to be accepting and start saying and agreeing that men can wear dresses. No men who do are freaks who shouldn't have a place in society. That argument has no place here.

No. 72632

If you don't want to be part of the problem then we need to stop telling men that that type of behavior is okay. They can be a gay male, and if they aren't comfortable just being a gay male and need to be gender nonconfirming then its too bad for them because it has no place.
Be okay with being a male or be shunned is what I believe as having them be nonconfirming is exactly what the problem is and its more than having them believe and call themselves a woman.

No. 72635


>I'm a TERF

Asshurt tranny detected. The samefagging you've been doing is pathetically obvious btw.

No. 72638

If you want to start telling men that it's okay for them to wear a dress then go ahead, but I highly doubt that you'll find much agreement in this thread or find people who think allowing men to wear a dress is an important issue.

Not >>72630, but come on, arguing that it's okay to encourage men to do behavior that is encouraging them to think it's okay to do problematic behavior in a TERF thread? You need to take a step back and look at where you're posting.

If allowing men to wear dresses is leading them to believe that they're a woman and try to get into women's spaces, then I'm against encouraging trannies too by trying to tell them that it's okay.

No. 72640

If you don't mind, I'm actually interested in your arguments on why Gender Critical feminism should all of a sudden start focusing on men, and why you think telling men they should be allowed to wear dresses when it's causing them to think they're a woman due to mental illness is important or okay?

No. 72644

NTA, but feminism definitely does need to focus on getting rid of gender roles, which includes helping men.

No. 72645

They already have their own movements, its the job for Incels and mens rights activists, you know, their own groups that focus on MEN, not us.
They need to start telling their own groups to dismantle their gender roles and help men because its not the responsibility of feminism to focus on benefiting men, and especially not focus on MEN over WOMEN.

No. 72650


I'm completely sure that TERFs will agree with you that we should encouraging the delusions of mentally ill men by allowing them to wear dresses any day now, just annnnnnny day.

GTFO to /lgbt/ or /r9k/ or wherever you came from tranny and stay off our forum. If you haven't this is /g/, which is for girls, not men who think they're girls.

No. 72659

>you make some good points anon
No you don't samefag

No. 72660

This is the same retarded ASL samefag strawman trolling in the misandrist thread about how abuse of male children is just dandy. Real clever, boy

No. 72674

Since noone but the most delusional actually truly believe that a balding 6'2" male with stubble and smeared makeup is SLAYING, YAAASSS QUEEN YOU LOOK SO MUCH BETTER THAN I EVER COULD! what percentage of fawning comments are actually attributable to
a) patronizing affirmation, the way one would talk to a retarded child
b) virtue signalling
c) egging the individual on with the perverse glee of a trainwreck observer
d) the satisfaction received that there is still someone uglier and failing more at femininity than oneself (possibly related to a) and c) ) ?

No. 72675


To be fair, I'll unironically eat my winter hat when trans-exclusive radical feminists start advocating that it's okay for men to wear dresses.

No. 72676

You will find that most, if not all, have no problem with men simply wearing dresses, or make-up, or taking on "traditional women's roles". Their issue is with those mens' claims that their choice of attire and behaviour is due to some innate gender feels, their insistence on being accepted in women-only spaces when performing some kind of minstrel show of women and in some cases the open acting out of their paraphilia while involving the unwilling public.

No. 72677


Hi i want to ask you how much influence terfs actually have in the general debate around gender. And whether their influuence is increasing. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

No. 72680

I believe a and b is why most "allies" cater to them. They think its helpful but catering to mental illness isnt helpful. Trans people are the result of an addiction to crossdressing and dissociation. An addiction is anything that disrupts and takes over your ability to function on a daily basis. Killing yourself because you can't further your quest to be seen as another gender is insanity. It's akin to a girl killing herself for not being able to get plastic surgery or an Ana chan killing herself because she felt fat. It's unhealthy.

No. 72682

lol, terfs -do- want to get rid of all gender roles, even if it means helping men. radfems will help women even if it helps men. just because their goal is to help women, doesn't mean they're too stupid to realize helping everyone does that.

No. 72683


tbh, c and a little bit of d is why I do it, because I am an awful person (obviously also why I enjoy spending time on /pt/ and /snow/).
I just wonder how many of the other commenters have the same motivation and outwardly we're just all great supporters and trans allies. I would feel worse for them, but honestly most current young MTFs are basically the Weis Market shooter.

No. 72686

My question for trans people is why demand we use your pronouns, new name, call you a real woman etc if deep down we are going to feel the way we feel regardless of what we are forced to say under the guise of politeness or to avoid a conflict? Do they realize a good portion of the people who go along with them dont truly view them as a "real woman"? I don't understand why they force the issue. All it results in a hollow gesture. Shit, half the allies dont believe it but they do it out of sympathy and not wanting to trigger anyone.

No. 72688

lmao no. destroying toxic masculinity is a huge interest and you can't do that by just changing women's gender roles.

No. 72693

right, but i'm not the idiot who's saying terfs want men to wear dresses.

No. 72699

that's totally fair.

No. 72702

No TERF thinks that a man should be able to wear a dress, skirt, makeup, or feel comfortable too, even without identifying as a woman. Anyone who claims otherwise is retarded.


No. 72703

Don't speak for me. I didn't give a fuck if they wanna wear a dress. You're just gonna pollute the discussion with this shit.

No. 72705


No. 72707


i don't think or know how allowing men to wear dresses helps women, but if you feel that way then fine. it's just not something that is part of Trans-exclusive feminism or something that most of us agree or should agree with and has no place in Trans-exclusive radical feminism.

No. 72710

> I don't give a fuck if they wanna wear a dress.
I don't mean to disagree or get into a debate with you anon but men should not be wearing dresses. I'm pretty sure that not caring about men wearing dresses is part of the problem.

No. 72712

Stop shitting up the thread, dress anon. Your poor grasp of English and logic gives your samefagging away.

No. 72767

I'm really sad Magdalen has cancer.

No. 72781


As am I.

No. 72783

Re: Men wearing dresses

Debating whether men should be allowed to wear dresses reinforces performative gender norms, and Western performative gender norms at that.

No. 72784

Meghan Murphy of Feminist Current accurately and concisely presents the argument against legislatively validating transgenderism.

No. 72787

When and why did the term "bio women" fall out of use? I feel like I used to hear it more often. I like how it explicitly refers to biology, obviously excluding trans women and including trans men, doesn't bow to the fake trans/cis dichotomy and doesn't use the inane AFAM/AMAB language. Trans women would have to go through quite the intellectual twist to claim the term (obviously they would try), but since it's so easily understandable to laypeople it would never truly transfer its meaning.

No. 72788

I sometimes lurk some guy I know irl's twitter because I'm curious, and usually he just retweets things about drag queens and popular singers. I found out he retweeted this recently:
Now if you read just the headline and the tweet, you'd think that the woman was just having some simple procedure and didn't want a transwoman nurse to examine her for, idk, a cold or something simple like that. But the patient had an appointment for a pap smear and asked for a female nurse in advance (as in, an actual woman) and the transwoman apparently didn't even try to pass for a woman. And people are shitting all over her for being distressed?

Wtf, as a kid I used to be hospitalized very often for a bunch of reasons and I knew I could requests only female nurses because I was uncomfortable around men and even boys my age, so I did. And here the patient decided to straight up not do the pap smear instead of being done with it. But imagine for some women who don't know you can request a female nurse or doctor for such intimate procedures, wouldn't they force themselves to be uncomfortable in the same situation, since the nurse refused to listen to the patient? It pisses me off. Imagine being seen as a bigot because you don't want a man or a transwoman to check your genitals to the point where you have to cancel your appointment. Anyway, the guy was unprofessional regardless of the situation.

Of course the guy who retweeted this is a white gay man who won't stop talking about social justice , racism and feminism. It's not like he could understand why women would only want female nurses and doctors to do these sort of procedures, since it has nothing to do with him. Now I can only see him as a sexist guy who tries too hard to be seen as a feminist, since he think women shouldn't choose how their medical procedures should be done and shouldn't be listened to.

It's the first time I post in this thread and I have a lot of other things to say but I'll stop here, I'm so tired I'm not very coherent rn.

I've seen people say that if some guy is trans and hasn't cut off his dick yet, then his dick is biologically a female body part. So they'll find a way to be pissed or to "reclaim" the term.

No. 72790

Some languages don't have masculine/feminine pronouns and people get by just fine. An ESL friend of mine (Uralic native language) regularly mixes up he and she even within the same sentence. Would she be in a lot of shit from TRAs? What do trans people from those countries get exasperated about?

No. 72793

cause most other cultures don't have 'trans people' cause they don't deal with their mental illness by feeding it.

No. 72799

File: 1515087711095.png (225.85 KB, 344x638, 1513705569849.png)

>Be against patriarchal gender roles and toxic masculinity
>Support patriarchal gender roles and toxic masculinity
Are you retarded? Legitimately seek a chromosome test.

No. 72803


Ok, I'll bite, in case you are deficient in critical thought rather than a troll.

Why is wearing a dress a privilege?

No. 72806

The comments disgust me to no end; there nearly all in favor of the nurse?!
All this MtF claiming that they've seen many women with more stubble, deeper voices etc than them. And all those 'cis' dotcors who distressed them…
But of course then feelings of men masquerading as women are more important than the well being of a patient; who knows, maybe that patient is a rape victim and that's why she's scared of men, even the ones who are 'women'…

No. 72808

I think they are confusing exclusivity with privileged - the word is thrown around so fucking much this doesn't surprise me.

Absolutely retarded opinion though - by that logic, women shouldn't be allowed to wear trousers as those are a men's "privileged".

No. 72814

simply wearing a dress isn't masquerading as a woman, that's anon's point. i also think it's disgusting to associate being a woman with dresses in the first place, and i am someone who only wears dresses/skirts. the only problem with a man wearing a dress is that it doesn't fit properly. many people have already brought up that women do not look like one particular thing.

No. 72815

>which is why people are TERFs.

lol no, people are terfs because mtt are pushing their mutilated dicks into our business. if these men just wanted to dress up like women literally no one cares. but toxic masculinity stops them from being able to do so without the risk of violence. i personally think that men should be able to wear whatever, but they should be addressing toxic masculinity, crossdressers should definitely do this since they are not trans. the reason that mtt do not do so is because they are mental and being deceived.

No. 72818

No offense anon but there's no need for trying to rationalize men trying to wear dresses. You're on a TERF form on an anonymous chan, you don't need to try to be politically correct and try to pass on that "nobody cares if men wear dresses" bullshit.
I mean, if you're trying to defend your views to the public, it's convenient and one thing, but most of us don't want men wearing dresses and we don't want them in our community, see it in public, etc.
While for some it's not an issue worthy of our attention, we, overall, have negative opinions of crossdressers and men wanting to crossdress for good reason, I don't want us to feel like we have to pretend we do because some tranny robots may see it and post to /r9k/ screaming about how it's "unfair".

Let's move on from the topic of men wearing dresses because the issue is determined. If you aren't against it (the movement as a whole is), it's not an issue that we should be fighting for or shitting up the thread with.

No. 72819

i'm not even being pc i just think gendered clothing is stupid and acknowledge that crossdressers, albeit creepy are not trying to weasel into female spaces.

No. 72821

We're against gendered clothing for women, we can wear whatever the fuck we want.
We don't want it to be okay for a man to feel like he wants to wear a dress or put on makeup and be able to work in a daycare taking care of kids.
Gendered clothing is stupid, but it doesn't mean we want men to wear dresses because who honestly wants to see that creepiness be allowed in our society. The only gender norms we're interested in tackling involving them is toxic masculinity, nothing more, nothing less.
Otherwise thinking that we should be focusing on anything else in terms of societal gender difference that benefit men, but have no benefit to women is of no interest to us. We're getting rid of gender for women so they aren't stuck in their gender, for men, our interest is just teaching them not to rape and discouraging values that teach toxic masculinity, not getting rid of rigid gender norms involving men past that.

No. 72823

You're wasting your efforts, anon, your dress meme won't catch on in radfem circles. You're right about us not giving enough of a shit about that issue to ~center male crossdressers in our feminism~. But abolishing gender entails abolishing the concept of gendered clothing.

No. 72824

I just contributed to the topic I'm only >>72821 and >>72818, not the other posters. I dont want it to catch on in radfem circles, but I'm saying that we should stop talking about it because allowing men to wear dresses is something a lot of us agree with and getting rid of gendered clothing is one thing but were just not at that point at this time where we agree with getting rid of if it or at all if it will lead to more perverts crossdressing.
Lets move on from talking about men identified male crossdressers because its not an important topic that is worthy of this much space in the thread and i don't want people to think it is.

No. 72825

isn't something a lot of us agree with

No. 72827

No one wants to debate her cuz she would run circles around them and wake people up. She should debate contrapoints lmao

No. 72829

Do you guys think that being TERF = gender critical?

What bothers me most is that all trans narratives that tries to alienate women are by MtF. Of course most of FtM wouldn't do something like that even tho some of them hate being born as a women but they lived enough as a women to know the struggle. It all comes to male entitlement.

Underrated post.

No. 72836

To be honest I have no idea what the fuck gender critical even is. I just know that I don't see why we have a T in the LGBT when they're not a sexual orientation and I dislike MtF.

No. 72837

gender critical has to do with binary (and biology kek) and denounces trans as mental and intersex/hermaphrodites as deformed (which medically they are). they don't believe in trans, and if they do, they class it as a social or mental disorder. gender is used to express the binary, not gender roles (as some anons seem adamant about).

terfs could care less about trans people as long as they stay in their corner, despite terf being used as a derogatory term for trans people who get pissy that someone has any opinion they dislike.

No. 72838

sage for samefag, but deformities and mental illnesses are not insults, and people who try to silence gender critical feminists often try to assert a negative connotation towards both terms.

needless to say both terfs and gcf are against any form of trans person being in feminism, womens spaces etc.

No. 72842

Sorry, I'm having trouble understanding you, your wording is imprecise. Could you paraphrase with more care?

As I understand GCFs are critical of the concept of binary gender which is a social construct used to oppress women as the class of sexual, reproductive and domestic service on the basis of their biology. There is no such thing an innate gender identity (that comes with stereotypically gendered behaviours and preferences), but it is a role imposed by socialization. Therefore gender should be abolished and people should be free to express their personality (rather than gender identity) however they wish. Arguably this would be a secondary goal after our resulting from the physical and economic liberation of women. GCFs feel that current transactivism is reactionary in that it reinforces the notion that people are born with the predisposition for a certain binary social role (lady brain).

No. 72896

I hate that as a bisexual, I have to be trans-inclusive or I'm a horrible transphobic for not wanting to fuck trannies. Just because I'm into both sexes, doesn't mean I have to be into a weird psuedomix of the two. I'm also blamed by a lot of terfs for being the one who supposedly wants trannies in the lgb community, because they also assume I want to fuck trannies. Can't win.

No. 72898

nah man, bi sexuals only want people who are binary, it's pansexuals who are all inclusive.

No. 72899

Won't be long before bisexuals will be called transphobic for only finding people in the gender binary sexually attractive. Or has it already happened?

In b4
>how can you write off all trans people, maybe you'll find one to fall in love with!

Sounds eerily like
>lesbians, how can you write off all men like that, maybe you'll find one to fall in love with!

No. 72902

it already happens. tbh i'd rather be bitched at for being a bigot then.

No. 72933

You have absolutely no idea about anything about nazis. Regardless of whether their correct, their ideology is built upon their own arguments of why it would be the best thing for the world. Just like every other ideology.

No. 72934

If gendered clothing was gone, how would it be creepy for a man to wear a dress?
It wouldn't be women's clothing any more.

No. 72935

I know it depends on countries and all that but one thing I hate is seeing trans people wanting to transition for free even though it's not necessary for their physical or mental health, meanwhile I had to pay just to check if I had high risks of getting a hereditary disease that would completely fuck up my entire life and that is ruining my mother's life.

I also see some of them asking to get hormones for free and without any doctors' authorisation, and yet when I had to receive a growth hormone treatment that was, again, NECESSARY for my health, I had to go to the hospital several times a month for years before, during and after the treatment in my childhood to see the results and side effects,as well as adjust the daily dose I was receiving. Why do they think they're so special that they shouldn't be treated like patients by doctors? Do they think their hormone treatment is as simple as just injecting some of it in their body and be done with it? What a bunch of spoiled idiots.

It's already happening. I remember some years ago on tumblr when people were saying that bisexuals should call themselves pansexuals to be inclusive of trans people or they're transphobic. Then I started seeing people saying that THIS was transphobic because transwomen are women and the distinction shouldn't exist, that people being bi wasn't transphobic because they tried to change the definition of the word, and that being pan was something different as well (as in, ppl are into every genders instead of being into men and women, cis and trans). Shit was weird, because despite this, these same people kept being biphobic.

No. 72939

Transactivists on Twitter successfully lobbied/bullied the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation into cancelling the broadcast of this documentary examining transgender kids.


No. 72946

don't even respond to that anon. i think it was said on /ot/ but that type of blatant man-hating to the point of hypocrisy is not what radfem is about. like, it's literally impossible to do most of the shit she's saying for women, without it happening for men.

No. 72947

but why? like, if you're gonna reject science in place of feels, atleast be subtle about it.

No. 72973

We are moving all gender critical discussion to >>>/ot/221232

Delete Post [ ]
[Return] [Catalog]
[ Rules ] [ ot / g / m ] [ pt / snow / w ] [ meta ] [ Server Status ]