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No. 86956

Goth music, makeup, fashion, literature that you love. People you're admiring, gossip, news etc.

No. 86957

File: 1530552443008.jpg (165.83 KB, 702x830, 2b1bd7be4fe4ca2b5e54f538bfdbca…)

>>86956
Also OP here; Anything punk is fine too, just please don't post emo, scene or metal, thank you.

No. 86958

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No. 86959

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>>86958
I've loved MaryGraceFrancone's makeup lately, I don't know who she is but she's shown up on my instagram explore page a lot recently. She's pretty young but takes a lot of trad influence and looks great.

No. 86961

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xbatprincesskittyx and battybooty are pretty awesome, they're a bit different to the usual looks you see on social media and they're not scared of colour. Like so many people feel like you can't wear colour with goth makeup despite all the original punk, new romantic, deathrock etc looks being full of colour as well as black liner. I'm old as fuck so when I was a teenager I had black, blue and purple eyeliner and red lipstick I used all over my face because my only eyeshadow was black and I had the option of like one brush so straight lines were only available via liner and blush via lipstick.

No. 86982

File: 1530573033006.png (1.78 MB, 1080x810, IMG_20180703_000854.png)

Does anyone wear bone jewellery? Or make your own jewellery? I'm trying to make more than just nose chains and necklaces but I'm not too good at it. I have the ideas but not the ability to realise those ideas, and bone jewellery. If anyone has advice that'd be awesome. Posting with inspo just 'cause.

No. 87003

>>86982
I have, I took accutane as a teen which turned my wisdom teeth greyish black, so when I had them removed I turned one into a gorgrous ring by cutting off the roots and setting it. Sadly I lost it when my jewelry bag was stolen from my car one day. Rings, broaches, pins, and clothing accents are all good uses for teeth in jewelry.

No. 87055

>>87003
That really sucks that you lost such sentimental jewellery, I'm sorry to hear that. I have my wisdoms sitting in a little antique ivory box (cliche I know) and have been meaning to do something with them like turning them in to drop earrings, I don't want to loose the root as it's big and gnarly and pretty but I love the idea of a ring so I may look in to getting even some of those porcelain ones you buy in strips. >>86982
Bones are great when they're found and not acquired a la Joji Grey, I know the beach here has a lot of them and a friend just makes his jewellery from chicken bones, like from his food. Dries them out, coats them in clear nail polish or varnish and chains them together.

No. 87249

Are there any interesting goth accounts on twitter? Maybe goth humor, music, fashion or just cool goths?

No. 87260

File: 1530798951684.png (1.38 MB, 1080x1081, IMG_20180705_023918.png)

Most of the activity seems to be instagram these days. There's a small crowd on Vampirefreaks still who are pretty close knit but that's been taken over by scene kids and Taylor Swift fans from Bangladesh. Don't see much on twitter, searched through the tags and it's all a bit bland. Anyone have any favourite social medias or forums for goth related music, art etc? I'm always looking for somewhere new.

No. 87599

>>86957
Punk and goth but not anything else? That's very random of you, OP. Goth and punk subcultures are nowhere near related neither are the other genres so I'm confused why you're cherrypicking if you want it to be a goth thread.

No. 87631

>>87599
Goth evolved from post-punk in the early 80s, post-punk evolved from the punk movement. Musically they're still often associated and discussed alongside one another especially with regard to how the music came about in the alternative scene. Regardless of what topic someone posts there will always be someone who asks about something slightly related but not specifically the topic. People frequently dress in a darker style as ReeRee Phillips for example, but they're not in to the music, a lot of people are stylistically in to goth looks but not the fashion therefore; not goth but connected to it visually and these various alternative/darkly inclined fashions are frequently discussed in other forums/threads etc about Goth.

No. 87670

>>87249
>>87260
There was the 30 second goth and punk accounts on twitter, but the punk one hasn't been posted in a long time and it looks like the owner of the goth one called it quits.
In Depth Music is a good account. They're on youtube and post a lot of underrated stuff.

No. 87673

>>87599
>Goth and punk subcultures are nowhere near related
What

No. 88471

>>86982
when they took out my wisdom teeth, they let me have them and I turned mine into earrings by just wrapping some wire around them and then attaching them to hooks.
i like it when people ask me 'are those…teeth?' and i can flippantly respond, 'yes, i grew them myself.'

No. 89563

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How do you guys get the confidence to go to goth clubs? I really want to be able to meet other goths and make friends but I don't have any goth friends to go with and wouldn't know how to just go up and talk to random people alone.

No. 89568

What are some good online stores?

No. 89594

>>89563
Felt the same way then just decided to go and met people/had a ton of fun! Everyone was crazy nice. This was at a goth club in Hollywood, ofc doesn't apply to everywhere.

No. 103823

Alright goth farmers, how does one get into the fashion and culture while living the middle of midwestern nowhere

Aka, how to be a Poor!Goth

No. 103839

>>103823
It's never been more accessible, even normie shops atm are pretty goth friendly. You can be goth just by wearing basic ass clothes with a little styling, you don't need to go full batcave immediately.
I recommend starting a mood board of things you personally like though,deciding first on things you already know you like the look of so you can start there and expand

Start getting into the habit of checking Facebook etc for gigs and events in reachable distances

No. 103949

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>>103823
I have already posted this in another thread, but I live in bumfuck nowhere in Siberia.
I just own a lot of basic black clothes, a couple statement pieces I ordered online (boots and coffin handbag) and a ton of cheap jewellry from aliexpress.
You can elevate the look by doing your hair and makeup really outlandishly. I chose not to because I have a buzzcut and unable tio do even simplest makeup on myself.
For makeup can I also recommend NYX? They're drugstore as far as I remember and they have black/purple/green lispsticks and singles of eyeshadows that are actually pretty good and affordable.
There are also a couple of goth storefronts on Aliexpress like Rosetic and Punk Rave, which can be pricy, but it's cheaper than Killstar. Killstar I would recommend if you know you're gonna buy more than 200$ of clothing/apparel because then they have free shiping.

In terms of a scene, unless you live in Europe or a prominent USA city the scene is dead. We had two goth nights in a year and the Halloween has died this year and the cover party died a couple of years ago. All we have for a "scene" is piercing and tattoo shops, but you can't exactly hang out there.
Most goth is online nowadays sadly.

No. 103963

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I'm saving my pennies for these Fluevog boots.

No. 103964

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>>103963

But first I'm getting a pair of these.

Docs never fit me, whereas I have never needed to break in a pair of Fluevogs. And they last decades.

No. 104262

>>103963
Fuck those are sexy!

No. 267912

Some nona suggested in /snow/'s alt cows thread to revive this thread, I hope it is the one she was referring to.

No. 267914

File: 1654288481190.jpg (167.01 KB, 600x600, xmal.jpg)

I love Xmal Deutschland. Finally their album Viva is avaiable on Spotify.

No. 267915

>>267914
I haven't listened to their albums in full but I have about 5-6 various songs of theirs on my music player and I understand the likeness for them, they have such a neat sound.

No. 268202

I wanted to fulfill my baby bat dreams now that I can afford that and start attending goth clubs but my shithole country has only fetish clubs where it's just women wearing latex and leather doing sexy dances on stage in front of sweaty moids or small pubs that host mini metal concerts filled with middle aged balding bikers and seeing as I'm in my early 20s I sure as fuck wouldn't want that company.
There is a big goth music festival held here annually but its golden years are long gone though I may give it a chance one day.
My biggest problem is that I don't have any friends who would be into that and I'd feel too unsafe going alone

No. 268216

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I've recently been getting into what I call 'Goth Club' music but don't actually know if there's one coherent genre of it, I guess its more just edgy EDM. I am a pretentious punkfag first and foremost and sadly can't get into traditional goth, I don't like slow songs. My favourite bands at the moment are Crass, Cutters, Ceremony, DIRT, and Otoboke Beaver. I love 'alternative' (I kind of hate what the term alt has become) fashion in general and my personal style just an amalgamation of whatever the fuck I like. I love this girl's outfit in pickle so much

>>268202
Ahhh nona i'm in a similar situation, I have no idea how to make punk and goth friends! I have one skinhead friend but it's not like there's a huge abundance of shows we could go to, or if there are, i'm not being told because i'm not in my local scene at all.. sigh. One day nona

No. 268224

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>>267912
Yes, I did mean this thread, thanks nonnie!

I wish I had the facial structure and confidence to pull off makeup looks like Siouxies, I keep it quite simple normally.

No. 268512

I love her! Not that I'm biased because of my German heritage kek. But her music is so good and I love her looks, super creative. My dad hates rock, punk and anything of the sort and he recommended her to me so that's saying something kek. Also love Toyah Willcox, especially her live performances are amazing!

No. 268533

>>268512
Aw fuck anon, beat me to it! She's amazing, I was learning German and her range and control is off the wall. Her looks are super inventive, too, I think there was an interview where she said she was wearing extensions when they were almost unheard of, and had to glue them to her hair (?). Icon.

No. 268543

>>268533
I only discovered her recently but the moment I heard her voice and saw her perform she had my heart, beautiful voice and her looks are as you said so inventive! The fact that she grew up in the DDR makes it even better since of course in a communist regime there is no room for individuality, thank god she had the luck of having an upper class family.

No. 268688

>>268216
>Don't like slow music.

Anon, I highly reccommend checking out She Past Away, they're one of the Goth bands that actually have faster-tempo songs that might be right up your alley.

No. 268689

>>268216
>Don't like slow songs

I highly recommend trying out some She Past Away songs if you havne't already anon, they're one of the few goth bands that tend to do faster-tempo songs that might be right up your alley. Also Christian Death.

No. 268690

>>268512
Nina Hagen is awesome thought just be aware her music is not Goth music, she mostly does (well did) New Wave music and a handful of punk music and experimental music. That said, she's one of a kind, her live concerts are so fun to watch on YouTube because of how into it she gets.

No. 268692

Gitane Demone is probably one of my top 3 favorite female Goth singers

No. 268738

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>>268689
Nona thank you! I just gave both bands a listen and I actually really like both! Especially She Past Away, I was surprised to find that they were a contemporary band… I just might be forced to look into other goth bands along the faster-tempo lines so i can make a playlist

No. 268765

>>268738
Nayrt but you may also like some darkwave bands like Clan of Xymox? I usually prefer faster tempo stuff too.

No. 269793

>>268738
They're not as fast as She Past away but I've been enjoying House of Harm and TRAITRS lately.

No. 269816

I barely leave the house so I never dress up, but I still love some goth music. I think I present as more emo

No. 269847

>>269816
Only clicked because of the "While I disappear" lettering, must be the emo inside of me, kek. That sounds nice, I don't leave the house very much, too and I feel too old to be still a goth, but that brings back feelings. Love you for that, nona.

No. 269877

Nonna, you just got to look for local clubs/goth nights in your area and go. The first goth night I went to I thought I was going to get judged, but everyone was extremely welcoming and approachable. I made new friends too!

No. 270654

I’ve really gotten out of goth. I used to be a local DJ and promoter, but the local scene is a bunch of creepy dudes. Absolute sex pests.

I feel so much more comfortable with crust punk and extreme music. Don’t get me wrong, I love goth music still, but really the only good scenes I got to experience were London and Berlin. Seems like smaller towns attract too many trannies and chasers.

No. 271394

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We've been living a lie, there's no such a thing as goth music, goth has nothing to do with musical taste, I'm even tempted to say it has nothing to do with art or culture either, it's possibly unrelated to an aesthetic too. We might as well declare that goth is whoever identifies as goth, because goth is an abstract concept and we don't want to gatekeep goth, gatekeeping is bad, everyone should call themselves whatever they fancy. There's nothing wrong with that! Are we afraid goth goes mainstream and becomes one of many labels to describe a vague fashion style, a category in a porn site or any other thing? Of course not! Goth is whatever you make of it, it has always been like that. Did goth start somewhere in particular around a certain decade? Of course not, goth has no history whatsoever. Let's fully embrace goth but only as a label in this year of our lord 2022, there's no reason to argue goth stood for anything in particular before, specially nowdays under the globalist capitalist system, because goth was never counterculture to begin with, so we're alright using it as an empty label.

No. 271396

>>271394
Kek thank you for saying what we are all thinking. Seriously, no such thing as goth music? There’s too many ex-Jake fans in that thread that still hold onto the belief that “goth music doesn’t matter”. Can’t believe some anons are actually agreeing with that post. You know they are just butthurt that they can’t call themselves a label that they wouldn’t even belong to. Wouldn’t call a punk a punk without punk music. But apparently goth doesn’t even exist, right? Ffs.

No. 271483

>>271396
That is the sad state of sub cultures today. I talked to my zoomer roommates about music the other day and they didn't know goth music was a thing at all. They all thought it was just a fashion trend, a new one at that.

No. 271493

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I might be retarded but did this anon imply that pastel/victorian/etc goth are also music subcultures?

No. 271514

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>>271493
I think she's talking about the aesthetic, how there are different fashion styles for it, not only the traditional mostly black look. I don't think pastel has nothing to do with goth, really. And lolita, if anything, it's a particular subculture of its own. I doubt you can incorporate lolita fashion into the goth subculture, ''gothic lolita'' is something probably more related to victorian fashion and visual kei.
I really want to discuss this topic here: is goth intrinsecally linked to DIY, thrifting and low budget fashion? I certainly think so.

No. 271517

>>271514
>I don't think pastel has nothing to do with goth
Sorry, that double negation throws me off. Was it a mistake and you really meant "I don't think pastel has anything to do with goth" or did you actually mean it to be like "I don't think pastel is inherently incompatible with goth"?

No. 271519

>>271514
I was a bit confused initially, because it was a response to someone talking about the music.
Anyway, I think DIY is a very admirable part of the culture, but I wouldn't rag on someone for wearing non-diy'd outfits if they are active in the music scene. Some just don't have the creativity or time.

No. 271539

File: 1655907525141.gif (1.12 MB, 245x190, 0b429ef93cc0799fa2eec6ebee1e7c…)

>>271517
Yeah, I meant ''I don't think pastel has anything to do with goth''.
>>271519
I agree that nobody has the time, but I believe that even buying clothes there's a difference between buying black basics made out of cotton and denim, and buying a killstar piece with alchemy symbols and pentagrams made of polyester. That's why I believe thrifting is the best choice, it usually takes as much time as buying clothes in regular shops.

No. 271545

>>271539
I agree with you nona, I think killstar/disturbia stuff is costume tier tbh. It's so over the top, does anyone wear sweatshirts with GOTH BITCH all across it unironically?

No. 271621

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>>271539
>>271539
killstar is also dogshit quality. the moment they featured an mgk collection i didn't even want to own any of the few killstar items i bought over the years. i go to disturbia for sweats because they're really comfy and actually stay soft. my going outside clothes definitely reflect that diy vibe, thrifted clothes are way better quality and last longer than the "new season new looks" from fast fashion shops. i get more compliments and spend less money thrifting. estate sales are also good places to look for things like jewelry or household items.

No. 272008

>>268690
Did you knew guys Nina is a TERF?, Amazing rigth. We stan with this queen.

No. 272009

>>272008
I did not know and I am in love

No. 272010

>>271545
I have seem bitches with "satan is my daddy" so, yea, there are a lot of those mistakes with legs out there.

No. 272015

File: 1656157505687.jpg (25.67 KB, 710x533, detail.jpg)

>>103963
Thanks 3 years ago flue-nonna now I need these picrel

>>271514
I think it is nonna. Not sure if biased because thats how I grew up and built my own wardrobe but I really do miss seeing more thrifted and DIY. While I can be guilty of buying some fast fashion pieces and even a killstar knockoff/from the manu for cheaper bag I long to return to thrifting and altering clothes on my old shitty sewing machine. I refuse to support killstar and dollskill type shops and do look down a bit on those who buy their whole wardrobe from such places but then again I also still have a pair of TRIPP NYC bondage pants and a cyberdog skirt around here somewhere from many moons ago so guess I am a bit of a hypocrite. Would not shop at either these days though. Some of my most favorite and most worn pieces are DIY and/or thrifted normiefag items that just need the right styling. I do understand not everyone is creative and into DIY and as long as they are just exploiting the aesthetic for moid attention or to try and ruin our few remaining spaces they can stay.



My music taste is hard stuck in the past like 80s and then when VF was actually about goth kek anyone have any newer goth music recs? Bonus points if they still tour.

No. 272017

>>272015
Not exploiting*

No. 272055

>>271483
I'm an older zoomer and it's like that with a few of my peers. They think it's just a fashion trend bc of the tiktok trendhoppers who abuse #goth (and she/they troons, for some reason), or that there is goth music but it's all shitty soundcloud, or that it's a fetish bc of the stupid goth gf/bf memes.

And sadly they're half right, bc some people are trying to turn it into this bc theyre desperate for the coolness of the label but dont care about the subculture, and so cry g-gatekeeper and o-oldhead to dismiss people who mention what the subculture is about. But they don't realise that manufacturing being alt makes you the opposite of alt.

No. 272058

>>272015
I would like music recommendations too (that actually tour so I can go out to a concert kek). I'm stuck in the 90s myself, I liked the ethereal, dark wave, and goth rock sound of the 90s and haven't found many if any bands similar to that.
The most modern band that I like is Angels of Liberty.

No. 272065

>>272015
>>272058
I'd also like music recommendations, I discovered one "new" band in the last 10 years and that's it. It feels like I'm born at the wrong time because all I listen to is mostly 15 years old or way older. That said, I also take old music recommendations, it's time for music I don't have memories to connect with.

No. 272068

>>272058
>>272065
Rosegarden Funeral Party
Vandalmoon
Horror Vacui
Molchat Doma
Boy Harsher
Lebanon Hanover

Please keep adding nonnas!

No. 272069

>>272008
Wait is she really?? I didn't know this. Like does she not believe in transgenderism as a whole?
Either way if this is true, I love her even more lol.

No. 272070

>>272055
To be fair, I've noticed this happening with Punk and even Emo, Emo of all things with people in your generation. They just do the look but when you click on their tiktoks, they're blasting soundcloud rap. It's so surreal and depressing to see that alternative music -related subcultures are being resorted to shit like this.

No. 272071

>>272068
They Die
Twin Tribes
Neila Invo
She Past Away
Velvet Mist
Midnight Passage

No. 272072

>>272070
The kids who need a label for every made up mental illness and personality trait are the same who will turn around and say I won't be limited to labels and music has nothing to do with fashions of music based subcultures. >sToP pUtTiNg Me In A bOx
top kek

No. 272073

This isn't really tied to Goth per say but I feel like it can still be a good discussion since it does tie in with Goth when it comes posers.
I was watching a video compilation of people being put on the spot for wearing band shirts and not knowing who the band was or any of their songs and I took a look at the comments and saw how people were defending this practice of just wearing band shirts for their aesthetic and I can't help but feel that this mentality is what created this kinda subculture disconnect and
I'm talking more than just Goth.

I'm a millennial and I remember when I was growing up in the early 2000s, connecting to music was still quite a big thing and I feel like with the new generation (Gen z), this was the beginning where it became about "aesthetic "fits"" while not having interest for the subculture the look comes from. I'm just wondering if this is truly a generational shift.

Don't get me wrong, there were people who did do things like wear band shirts of bands they didn't listen to or had interest in only back then, it was bands like Rolling Stones, Ramones and Misfits compared to today, it's bands like Nirvana, Joy Division, and Metallica to name a few.

No. 272074

>>272072
KEK that is so true. But you know this reminds me of the mid 2000s with the "Emo Kids" of MySpace and VampireFreaks. I'm sue there are some others in this thread who remembers those people who would say that they didn't believe in labels yet when you look at them, they were decked out in the most stereotypical Emo/Scene kid fashion and liked the music that was popualar in those scenes lol.

I mean at the very least they were listening to the music compared to today where these same kinds of people don't even listen to the music they're claiming to be but it's just funny, especially with how things have changed and gotten much shallower when it comes to this "Don't label me" mentality.

No. 272080

>>272073
I also wonder if the whole "I don't need to prove my knowledge of x genre I dress like" is also some bleed over from con culture where the SJWs kept telling people you can't expect kids to know the source of their cosplay and it's bullying. Hell same with just "geek culture" in general which was a niche before it was exploited for simp bucks. Starting to sense a theme here nonnas.

>>272074
100% nonna I feel like those kids would also be the ones who tag their insta posts with all the trendy tags and when it's pointed out they don't belong they would cry "I don't fit into any label but I do it to get seen you oldhead gatekeepers"
These kids and sometimes overgrown kids just can't make it make sense

No. 272083

>>272073
I'm a huge NIN fan and I regularly search for used band shirts that won't cost a fortune, because I love wearing band shirts. What I've stumbled upon was a rapper wearing old NIN shirts and sometimes other famous people I've never heard of. That doesn't mean they don't listen to said band, but I assume that fans of their music will see them wear those shirts, buy them and not even know what music that band makes.

It's okay if you like the artwork on some band shirts, honestly, it made me listen to bands I would never have considered before, but to wear something you don't know anything about is so not what I would do. For example, I'm loving the California album from Blink 182, I don't like their stuff before that, now I'm not sure if I should get a shirt from that album or just leave it be, because I was not so into them before that time.

But maybe we are just overthinking all that and we should just wear what fits our aesthetic, I don't know, guess it wouldn't work for me as I had to fight for every damn goth piece in my closet while I was younger. I don't know, maybe I'm too old to understand zoomers, for me being goth meant something, it was a way a living, it was a whole feeling, it wasn't just some stupid clothes.

No. 272086

>>272080
>I also wonder if the whole "I don't need to prove my knowledge of x genre I dress like" is also some bleed over from con culture where the SJWs kept telling people you can't expect kids to know the source of their cosplay and it's bullying. Hell same with just "geek culture" in general which was a niche before it was exploited for simp bucks. Starting to sense a theme here nonnas.

You know I think you may be onto something there. I can't say that I was huge into geek culture, I never really went to cons and I only liked a handful of anime back in the 2000s. I was more into video games but even then, not hardcore into it but I do remember the days when being into that stuff was not popular and you'd be teased or bullied for it compared to now where it's so popular and you don't get bullied as much for it compared to the 90s and early 2000s.

Perhaps it is a bleed over from con culture with people who dressed up as anime or movie characters while not knowing who the character was and now we're seeing that seep into music-related subculture which again were slightly stigmatized back in the day where people would get mocked or bullied for liking Metal, Goth, Emo, etc music. The people who call themselves these things now while not having a clue about the music are the people who would've bullied said people if it was still seen as socially unacceptable.

No. 272088

>>272083
>But maybe we are just overthinking all that and we should just wear what fits our aesthetic

My partner who is a fellow millennial but never allowed to dress like the metalhead he is tells me I should just not care that the zoomers just wear what makes them happy and while I agree if they call themselves goth then I get a bit rustled and I can't seem to help feeling that way.

While I definitely am a long time goth I do sometimes where other fashions but definitely never considered myself a lifestyle lolita or anything so am I maybe a hypocrite idk. I do only wear gothic lolita though am not one of those pink kawaii by day goth by night tropes.

No. 272089

>>272083
>I'm a huge NIN fan and I regularly search for used band shirts that won't cost a fortune, because I love wearing band shirts. What I've stumbled upon was a rapper wearing old NIN shirts and sometimes other famous people I've never heard of. That doesn't mean they don't listen to said band, but I assume that fans of their music will see them wear those shirts, buy them and not even know what music that band makes.

Right I feel like this became more of a trend when celebrities like Kim Kardashian and Justin Bieber were starting to wear band shirts like Metallica, Guns N Roses, and Iron Maiden. Their young zoomer fans and "zillenials" wanted to imitate their idols by dressing like them and thinking that those band shirts were brand clothing, mainly because these celebrities never talked about the music they were posing with like you know, Kim Kardashian being asked what her favorite Metallica song was.

>It's okay if you like the artwork on some band shirts, honestly, it made me listen to bands I would never have considered before, but to wear something you don't know anything about is so not what I would do. For example, I'm loving the California album from Blink 182, I don't like their stuff before that, now I'm not sure if I should get a shirt from that album or just leave it be, because I was not so into them before that time.


I get liking a band shirt design, I think a lot of metal bad tees have some pretty cool designs on them but I guess I'm just old school where I'd feel more comfortable wearing band merch of bands that I know and listen to. I don't think you have to know everything about the band but at the very least, at least know a few songs even if it's just their well-known hits. Like for example you liking Blink's California album, I think it's totally fair for you to wear that shirt because you genuinely like the album. So what if you didn't like their previous work, you found some of their music that you do enjoy and that's totally valid and if you explain that to people who question you on it, if they're chill they'll accept that.


>But maybe we are just overthinking all that and we should just wear what fits our aesthetic, I don't know, guess it wouldn't work for me as I had to fight for every damn goth piece in my closet while I was younger. I don't know, maybe I'm too old to understand zoomers, for me being goth meant something, it was a way a living, it was a whole feeling, it wasn't just some stupid clothes.


I don't think it's overthinking at all. Music is a big deal for a lot of us and it's valid, music helps bring people together and the fact that there are still people interested in these niche music genres like Goth rock, Deathrock, Post-Hardcore, and Psychedelic Rock to name a few shows how transcendent music can be in peoples' lives and that's why it's so sad to see the next generation take such a shallow approach and mindset to these once rich niche subcultures that brought us outcasts (lol) together.

No. 272090

this discussion on clothing is reminding me how a lot of "goth" clothing is being sold for ridiculous amounts today. These aren't inherently goth (more mall stuff you'd see in Hot Topic), but Emily the Strange, Lenore the dead girl, Ruby Gloom, etc. merch is being sold for ridiculous prices nowadays. A t-shirt that would've been maybe $20 or less back then is now being sold for $100+ dollars. The same is happening with Tripp and Lip Service, and those I slightly understand because they're pieces no longer being made and have some quality behind them, but the scramble for old alternative graphic shirts is so bizarre to me. How do these e-girls and zoomers afford $250 shirts? Hell it's not even delegated to only goth, I've seen old Twilight merch and Invader Zim being treated this way too.

No. 272102

>>272090
>These aren't inherently goth (more mall stuff you'd see in Hot Topic)

I'd say that none of it is goth period. Something I noticed with a lot of these "got" clothing brands is how they don't even carry any goth band merchandise, not even the more well known ones like The Cure or SOM. So I never thought of brands like Killstar, DollsKill, BlackCraft, etc as "goth" brands, just dark alternative clothing brands at bst and stuff for angsty edgelords at worst.

I do get what you mean though, I remember Emily the Strange merch specifically costing at the most, $30 for like a messenger bag while everything else of her was reasonably priced. I do get Tripp because even back in the late 90s they were on the pricier side and same with Lip Service depending on what the item was.

>How do these e-girls and zoomers afford $250 shirts?


That's a good question. My guess is that they use the money they make doing their streaming by putting away some funds towards expensive clothing? That or they get gifted it.

No. 272116

>>272070
Ayrt. About emo and soundcloud rap, reminds me of Machine gun Kelly's song emo girl. He couldn't describe the girl past her looks and that she only loves trap songs. About tiktok, yeah though I like the diversity of aesthetics it has, it's social media so it can be quite pigeon hole-y like people thinking they can only be one aesthetic at a time, and shallow like wearing whatever gets Likes and insisting subcultures are just about clothes. I have no problem with people who know they just like goth clothes and not the subculture. I have a problem with when people insist on squeezing into labels they happen not to fit. Just be yourself and then use labels to describe that.

But for some reason a lot of gen z collects labels like stickers, warping existing ones to fit them like with goth, and making up labels like with turning personality traits into genders (and there's an overlap with gendies and dressing alt). All while claiming to totally be themselves and so progressive. >>272072 Yep all of this.

They're even resorting to things like "what about deaf people? They can't hear the music, so can they not be goth, you ableist? Gotcha!! Anyone and anything is goth!!" But of course deaf people are exempt you idiot.

>>272090
How do these e-girls and zoomers afford $250 shirts
Sponsorships? I've had scam sponsorship DMs from fake alt brands, makes me think legit ones are common for scammers to be doing it too

>>272083
>I had to fight for every damn goth piece in my closet while I was younger. I don't know, maybe I'm too old to understand zoomers, for me being goth meant something
Not all of us are shallow, I've met fellow goth zoomers who like the music. But naturally the shallow ones are the most vocal/visible. I've had to fight for my clothes too, conservative religiousnparents you know the deal, and one of the only positives I can say about such stifling parenting is I value my self expression more.

No. 272147

>>272090
>How do these e-girls and boomers afford $250 shirts
They don't, other people like parents, simps, etc buy it for them lol. The sad thing is that I actually really love lip service and emily the strange and all I can do is laugh at the listings that sell normal t-shirts that just happen to be from 2006 for over $35! Aus listings for lip service and other brands like that have actually been fairly priced for the most part though which im happy about.

No. 272203

>>272147
I like that sort of clothing too, as I’m still darkly inclined and it’s good for casual wear. But at least in the US I have seen those shirts go for hundreds of dollars, and it kinda sucks because just years ago before this “mall goth” trend got popular, this stuff was under $10. I wonder if the trend will ever die down. Is has to, right? Soon they’ll be clinging onto some other time period.
It’s funny because I’ll see even plain polyester velvet stuff marketed as “Goth” on Depop for $70+ dollars, but literally all you have to do is buy from a normal store, thrift it, or even just go on eBay to get something similar (or even exact) much cheaper..

No. 272276

File: 1656314849802.jpg (8.51 KB, 191x263, PatriciaMorrison.jpg)

Am I alone in thinking that whenever you hear someone who claims to be goth get asked what goth bands they enjoy and/or like and they respond with that they like all kinds of music and then don't answer are just signaling that they don't actually listen to goth music?

I feel a bit snobby thinking this way but I can't but feel like this kind of answer to a simple question is a subtle way of them admitting that they don't actually listen to the music. I get that it can be hard to choose favorites in a music genre but if you can't even name drop at least a few bands that you enjoy, it just leads me to suspect something is up. I think the reason why I feel this way is because I saw so many of those Killstar goffs, the ones who spend hundreds of Killstar and do hauls about it tended to always use that excuse of a non-answer whenever they were asked about what goth bands they liked.

No. 272313

>>272276
Back when I started we had a store called XtraX and I know that people reacted to others wearing clothes bought their the same as towards people buying Killstar and co. today. Honestly, I like two or three things that Killstar sells, still wouldn't buy it, because I can make it myself in better quality or buy somewhere else for far less money with the same quality.
I would still agree with you, if you identify as goth, you should be able to at least name 3 bands that you like, same goes for every other kind of music. If someone would come around and tell me that he loves rap and therefore dresses like he dresses and couldn't name at least some music, I wouldn't believe that person. Even so my answer what music and bands I enjoy wouldn't satisfy people, I always say that I like rock, because that makes it easier, can't list every single rock genre I like and listen to, at least I could tell you some bands I like.

No. 272319

>>272313
>XtraX

Oh wow, I haven't heard that name in a long while lol But yeah I suppose you can say that with all the big ame popular alt brands like Tripp as well. With Killstar, I just found a lot of their patterns tacky with the vomit spilled occult symbols and even worse, how people buying those items didn't even know what the symbols were. I remember this girl who did a "Killstar Goth Haul" even say that the pentagram is a "goth symbol" lol. So stupid.

>I would still agree with you, if you identify as goth, you should be able to at least name 3 bands that you like, same goes for every other kind of music.


Yeah like, it's okay if your favorites change every other week but if you can't or refuse to name at least some that you've enjoyed then it just leads me to suspect that you don't listen to the music. You never see this problem with Metalheads. Like unless it's people like the ones in >>272073 , most Metalheads do tend to name drop some metal bands they enjoy. Like whenever I heard someone talk metal and get asked about their favorite bands, I've never seen one answer with "I like all kinds of metal music", no they just get right into it. Goth is the time I've seen this kinda thing happen in.

No. 272336

>>272071
Thanks for the recommendations nona! I really liked Velvet Mist.
I guess I am a little picky kek. Too often I will like the general sound of the band (guitars, bass, synth, etc.), but then not like the singer’s voice.

No. 272442

>>272336
No problem, I'm glad you enjoyed at least one of them! And I understand, I van be picky as well when it comes to vocals. One moment I can be liking the instrumental work but then be turned off by the singing style so I get it lol.

No. 272453

>>272069 yea nona, she's opennly a terf since 2020

No. 272563

File: 1656515168602.jpg (130.84 KB, 1280x640, tumblr_91a0ad7537103c1c2288922…)

>>272453
You intrigued me so I looked it up and holy shit you weren't joking. YES, I fucking love this kek
I hope she doesn't deflect and retract, we need people but especially women like her to show that even in the alt spaces, you don't have to be a slave to gender bullshit.
It makes sense with her though because she did all kinds of looks both feminine and masculine and it seems she has the sense to know it's all fashion and doesn't change your sex.

No. 278467

File: 1659044805266.jpg (102.12 KB, 900x543, 543-224838739.jpg)

Bump, because can't forget Inez Weski. She's a well respected lawyer in the Netherlands, there is not much known about her personal life (even birth date is unknown, so I'm not sure how much she is involved in the goth scene) but I love her for breaking the stereotype that all alternative people are all just lowlifes. Her book is very good too, I don't think a translation exists but if you're Dutch it's both insightful and funny.

>>272563
Haha oh my god that's so hilarious and cool at the same time. Another reason to love her!

No. 278495

I will always love the classics but having contemporary bands like Second Still put out music like this makes me so happy

No. 279030

>>278495
i haven't heard many songs from this band though I've liked what I've heard. Thanks for sharing this one, the sound is absolutely divine. As great as the classic goth bands are, I love seeing new goth bands continue carrying the torch of the genre.

Golden Apes are technically a second-wave Goth band since they started in the 90s but I was happy to hear a new song from them.

No. 279031

File: 1659318956467.jpg (37.98 KB, 380x604, bcfe0f38c7c1cbc9fc130b855b9b44…)

So I'm sure this will be an unpopular opinion but honestly whenever I come across self-proclaimed Goths on YouTube who are obviously gen z, I automatically assume they are not actually interested i Goth and are just into the look which even in my eyes, looks more edgy altgirl then it does "goth".

I know that you shouldn't assume or genewralize but every time I click on a video titled "goth look" or anything that has to do with fashion and I click to see if they've talked music, 99% of the time they don't have any music-related content including playlist and if they do have a TikTok, they usually only use rap-type music, older pop punk music from the late 2000s to 2010s, and/or 80s new wave like Depeche Mode or New Order.

And even if they do show playlists which some have that may have some goth music in it like the usual Bauhaus, Siouxsie, and The Cure, I just have a sneaking suspicion that they don't actually listen to the music and only have it for street cred sortaspeak.

Again unpopular opinion but it's just how I feel.

No. 279219

>>279031
I too am this way and even raise you the additional thought they only dress goth as a pickme addon to sell OF content.

No. 279349

>>279219
Oh now that's bold but I actually agree with this suspicion. Some of those "goff tiktoks" where the girl is wearing a super provacative outfit and making "aheagao" looking faces or trying to act all seductive-like, if these are the girls you're talking about then I so fucking agree with you. Just a bunch of e-thots trying to get attention by being self-proclaimed "goths" when they don't even participate in the scene (and this includes actually listening to music and talking about it with other fellow goths).

No. 283110

File: 1661185225034.jpg (61.86 KB, 564x546, d437c245a1c1b964b24cfded84c039…)

Any goth elders who would like to share how it was back in the good days here? I'm in my early 20s and considered myself goth ever since I was a kid and dreamed of finding other goths once I'd be older but I think it's dead here. You'll find some alternative people, sure, but they're usually only interested in fashion. There aren't any goth clubs here (nor have there ever been as far as I'm concerned).
On hand it's changed for the better, 10 years ago I was getting called a satanist and a freak just for a black dress and a couple of spikes. Now, you can find edgy/'alternative' wear in any other fast fashion store and so many people are wearing it. It's cool, I'd have been so happy as a kid, but it's all surface level and the fact that it's so accessible now means it attracts people who would otherwise not care to diy it. And so when you have a conversation with someone like that it usually turns out they just like anime and listen to 100 gecs. I tried to find some people online and the only local (as in from my country kek) community I could find consisted of balding 2deep4u vampire larper moids, normie moids looking for a 'baddie goth gf' and sad pickmes trying to impress them.
I miss being 13 and worrying I'd get called a poser, at least there were some people actually participating in the subculture back then. Most of cool people are probably not online I guess

No. 283114

>>279031
I feel this way too, but I know older goths said the same thing about my generation when I was young (people who listened to NIN and MCR but not Christian Death and the Sisters of Mercy)

No. 283213

>>283110
I definitely think a lot of the older crowd is pulling away from online. I definitely have since I got over my BPD daddy issues teenage days. I consider myself "elder" only for the fact I have been goth long enough(over 15 years yikes) to also remember being bullied for my DIY fashion and called a freak for dating the only other goth in town.
I definitely struggle to connect with the vapid people who just dress in it for edge points and goffic arcs. The generational divide probably doesn't help. I am just barely a millennial and struggled enough to relate to them let alone zoomers.
Sadly my best advice to find like minds is to put yourself out there and start the community you want and hope like attracts like but also know you will have to deal with some retarded moths who just want to fly into your light(kek) as well.
People like Maddie Danger will say "there are discords out there to meet your fellow goths"but then not link any (probably to avoid anyone asking about her bow defunct one.)
End if the day wether we like it or not or think we are cut out for it we have to make the communities we want to see in our subcultures or else the future is left up to the zoomer gothcores.
Depending on your country and situation also maybe consider one of the big festivals like WGT or ML if you really can't build a community closer.

No. 283416

What makes a person qualify as goth? I listen to a couple of goth bands, wear black and sometimes weird clothes, tease my hair, and do my makeup like robert smith. I don't participate in alt scenes because theyre full of genderspecials. But while getting ready for class I realized that I probably look like a goth or emo to random normies on the street. I've never thought of myself as that, since again I don't participate in the scene, and I don't really care since labels don't matter, but I wonder what you guys think.

No. 283438

>>283416
i would say youre goth.

there are the goths that go all in on it and have to make it their life.
house filled with halloween decor, wear goth clothing brands, seek out all new and obscure goth bands, proudly state that theyre goth where/when they can, etcetc….

but then theres the people who just are into that kind of stuff but dont go out of their way make it their whole being.

I think before social media most people were the latter, but now with the people trying to get online clout having to compete for it with others, they have to be over-the-top goth all the time.
so it gave the impression to younger people that they have to do all that shit to be considered a "real goth" too, which thus makes these younger people tell others that they're not a "real goth" cause they don't make it their whole being…

sorry for a little bit of a rant, but tldr: you're goth and i dont remember people being obsessed with the label and so hardcore about it before social media. it just used to be as simple as: you wear black and listen to the cure? you're goth.

No. 283505

>>283416
I agree you would qualify as goth if you wanted the label.

The old crowd definitely uses music as the defining factor.
The zoomers think its aesthetic.
Some will claim you have to be "apart of the scene" but if you listen to the music that is being apart of the scene imo. That's definitely all I had growing up. There was no social media and I was not allowed out to the goth clubs/nights in the city (now you couldn't pay me to go to one.)

I guess tbf ymmv depending on what you want out of being goth too though. Like other anon said if someone wants clout they probably do all their decor shopping during fall and only drink black coffee. If you only care about being comfortable in your own skin who is going to come tell you you aren't goth.


Does bring up a few question for the fellow bats.
What is your local scene like?
Are you a lurker, participant or one of the thankless few keeping it going?
How do you feel and deal with all the handmaidens and genderspecials?
Is there a different city's scene you wish you were apart of?


>What is your local scene like?

Shadow of it's former glory. One of the biggest cities in Canada and I think we have on avg 3 events a month now maybe less. A lot of problem people from both old and new crowds and people thrive on the social media drama. It's made me lose all interest in it.
>Are you a lurker, participant or one of the thankless few keeping it going?
Lurker loner
>How do you feel and deal with all the handmaidens and genderspecials?
Get blocked and called a terf bully for spitting truths generally.
>Is there a different city's scene you wish you were apart of?
Nope, this is the only one I have ever known and I think I will stick to Jfash events and hope to eventually make fashion friends who have wider range than "if your 555 I'm 666" mentality that plagues so many goffs.

No. 284159

>>283110
I'm in my early 30s and I didn't get into Goth until I was 16 and for me, my time in Goth was in the mid to late 2000s and I hardly went out to the clubs. In fact I've only been to one twice and they weren't actual goth clubs but just clubs that would have "goth" nights and in one of them, they hardly played Goth music and were spinning Industrial bands like Combichrist, NIN, and Suicide Commando type stuff with the occasional Sisters of Mercy. The other night played some classics like Bauhaus, The Cure, Siouxsie, and Clan of Xymox but for the most part, it was just New Wave and Synth Pop music like Depeche Mode, Tears for Fears, and The Human League. I did love the later night but just saying, never experienced a a club that played nothing but Goth and Deahrock music is all.

I'll admit that I miss the days when alternative was still a niche. Yeah the bullying fucking sucked and that's the one thing I don't miss but it feels like there was more camaraderie back then. Sure there were still posers like the ones >>283114 mentioned with those people who thought listening to bands like NIN, Rammstein, Evanescence, and HIM made them goth but for the most part, at least online I was finding myself being able to meet other people who were interested in actual Goth music and I was able to come across so many more bands in the genre that I hadn't heard of thanks to these people and I just miss those days.

And at the very least, even if you were called a poser, there was this incentive that if you wanted to not be labeled one, you had to get yourself to actually check out the usic and that goes for any scene really which only strengthened that camaraderie I mentioned earlier because ignoring the few asshats, most would still accept you in even if you were new and tried to make an effort to learn about and listen to the music. Compare that to nowadays where if you so muchas mention the music, you get labeled an "elitist" and/or "gatekepper".

No. 284162

>>283213
This is so true. In order to see proper continuation of the goth scene and not let it subside to the likes of zoomer gothcores who only view it as some fashion show, us millennial and even gen x aged goths have to try to create the events and meetups that we once had with the clubs that are sadly closing down. It's tough though because we may not have as much time as we used to but I'm sure it can be done.

One idea I had but haven't executed yet was having a meetup at a local park to just chill and listen to goth music while having a little picnic/potluck type of thing. Cheesy I know but I dunno, I'd go to one kek.

Point is, we can't rely on the clubs anymore because they're sadly fading away and the only events that will feature some goth bands is really just Wave Gothic Treffen and not all of us live in the UK and can go to it so this is why a more DIY approach may be the best bet to continue the social aspect of our subculture.

No. 284168

>>283416
In my honest opinion, the only way to qualify as a goth is to have an active likeness for the music. When I say "active", I mean listening to goth music and making an effort to explore the genre when you can and opening up your library.
To reiterate if you're just listening to the Cure, Siouxsie, and/or Sisters of Mercy and stopping there,I wouldn't call someone like this a "goth". I'm not saying that you have to only listen to goth music but what I am saying is that keeping yourself invested in the music from time to time and trying out new goth bands and songs and building up your library to where there's more than just the usual Bauhaus' "She's in Parties", Sisters of Mercy's "This Corrosion", The Cure's "Love Song", and/or Siouxsie and the Banshee's "Spellbound". This to me is someone who is a Goth.

To bounce off from >>283438 , Try not to worry about fashion and home decor. These things are not required to be Goth and as we've seen with the modern craze of "Gothcore" with zoomers who only care about "aesthetic" and looking edgy, it really epitomizes why the fashion isn't as important as one would think because there are plenty of people these days who choose to dress like this but yet still have no interest in the music and these people are not goths, they are alternative at best and poser at worst. Think of people like Jake Munro and Toxic Tears, these are people who I would say are good definitions of posers to be brutally honest.

>>283505
>ome will claim you have to be "apart of the scene" but if you listen to the music that is being apart of the scene imo. That's definitely all I had growing up.

Agree with this. I remember back in the day people would say that if you didn't go to goth clubs, you weren't a goth but that was ridiculous because not every town has a goth club and so I too think that just listening to and enjoying the music is more than enough.

No. 284169

>>283505
>What is your local scene like?
It's pretty dead where I live. I hardly see other goths out in public when I'm out and about. In the whole time I've lived where I do, I've only seen one other goth and the reason I knew was because she had a vest on with a large Christian Death logo on the back of it lol. Aside from her, I haven't met any other goths in my area.

>Are you a lurker, participant or one of the thankless few keeping it going?

Mostly a lurker. I used to help an old online friend post music in a Facebook group dedicated to documenting goth bands but real life took over and we just got busy with our own lives and didn't have much time to devote to the group and we haven't been active in it in 3 years.

>How do you feel and deal with all the handmaidens and genderspecials?

Pretty much like you, I just accept being called a "terf" and blocked. I've gotten blocked from a few Goth groups for refusing to call MTFs by female pronouns and this other time for saying that I thought nonbinary was stupid and contradictory. This part of why I stopped trying to engage in goth groups these days because of how so many are mindless TRAs. It's made me wary of other alternative people in general tbh.

>>Is there a different city's scene you wish you were apart of?

There are times where I wished I lived in a place like NYC where I could meet more goths but again, because of how so many seem to be mindless TRAs and/or the "core" types of people who don't like goth music, I've grown accustomed to just being on my own and dealing with the solitude that comes with it lol.

No. 284475

File: 1661882569631.jpg (5.91 KB, 300x298, R-415915-1260054201.jpg)

>>284168
That's kind of where I am right now. I don't listen to a lot of goth bands and I don't go actively searching for new music, but the bands that I'm into I'm really into. Like I've been listening to the same five cure albums on repeat constantly for the past year. Also in the flat field(OT but does anyone else not like bauhaus's other albums? maybe this album is just so good everything else pales in comparison…)

I feel bad for you anons actively in the scene. Goth clubs barely even exist anymore and it seems like every alt person is a TRA/genderspecial/incel. But it's nice to know not everyone is like that.

No. 284540

>>284162
It's not cheesy at all. There used to be picnic and craft meetups in Philly before the pandemic and they were really good for fostering community. They helped people make friendships outside of the club and also allowed people to share info more organically.

I ended up going to clubs less because promoters lied like hastags on tumblr or an aliexpress product description. Go for goth and you end up listening to anything but that. There was also an issue with local kink and steampunk groups coming in and acting like the events were theirs.

The few solid events that were promoted by handing out paper fliers had very few attendees. It's hard to want to go out when so many people bait and switch. Picnics were the best things.

No. 284586

File: 1661926878371.jpg (39.81 KB, 500x500, Bauhaus Mask.jpg)

>>284475
>Listening to the same five Cure albums on repeat constantly for the past year
>Bauhaus' In the Flat Field


Well going off of this, I wouldn't necessarily call you a "Goth" until you try out more bands but if you do have an interest in the music and are open to trying out more music when the mood hits, you would be the definition of a "baby bat", someone new to the music and is taking their time (as one should) exploring the genre.

>Does anyone else not like Bauhaus' other albums?


I've only listened to their first 3 albums so far and I was quite fond of "Mask" but ITFF is pretty dang good and kinda hard to top so I understand where you're coming from.

No. 284589

File: 1661927738119.jpg (129.88 KB, 828x1012, bdcd77ef4b25f2f2a47ed3f041e657…)

>>284540
The pandemic really did a number on the goth's social scene when it came to the clubs. My city only had one goth club and it closed down during the 2020 lockdown and there are no plans of it re-opening but even then, that goth club was starting to teeter away from goth music anyway. I remember the last time I went there, this one DJ spun Slipknot, Linkin Park, and Bring Me the Horizon and didn't play a single goth song. He played NIN's "Closer" but I feel like he was one of those guys who thought that NIN is a goth band kek.

>There was also an issue with local kink and steampunk groups coming in and acting like the events were theirs.


I've seen this too! Not so much Steampunk, that never really caught on where I live but the kink and BDSM crowd made rounds at the one club and some of them were absolutely annoying to deal with, especially when it attracted normie guys to come in and try to pick up women there.

But right, I really wanna try the picnic idea when I have the time. Even if the turnout isn't big, I think it could still be fun even if it's just like 4-5 of us there and at the very least, we can just enjoy each other's company and know we all get each other musically and jam out to some goth songs while having refreshments and conversation. I'm just really socially starved to interact with fellow goths, it's been so long lol.

No. 285006

File: 1662160220572.jpg (385.47 KB, 1947x1181, sims DNA lounge.jpg)

DNA lounge in SF is supposed to be like one of the best goth clubs but they have this retarded DJ who always plays 2012 top 40s and like imagine dragons and shit

No. 285052

>>285006
>"One of the best goth clubs
>DJ alays plays 2012 top 40s and like Imagine Dragons shit

Ew please tell me the turnouts aren't great.

No. 285122

Does anyone else get crazy imposter syndrome when they're just doing their homebody things and wearing black sweats and no makeup even though you listen to goth music so you know you're not actually a poser?

>>284162
My city does one of these most summers and I think its a great idea! Sometimes its even better if only a few chill people show up and you actually get to know them beyond edgy nickname, fav song and most obvious makeup inspo.

>>284168
I actually super agree with this

>>284540
Steampunk I kinda almost understand since it's fallen off and you know the meme about goths finding out about brown but wtf is with the kink people because no way they don't have their own nights, munches and spaces.

No. 285133

>>285122
>Does anyone else get crazy imposter syndrome when they're just doing their homebody things and wearing black sweats and no makeup even though you listen to goth music so you know you're not actually a poser?

I personally don't to be honest but I'm also in my 30s now and I've been into goth since I was a late teen. I used to feel that way when I was in my early 20s but stopped caring when I got to my mid-20s. It was mainly because after interacting with some other people who claimed to be goths and dressed in dark fashion only to learn that they didn't listen to the music put into perspective to me that it doesn't matter if you don't dress darklu all the time, let alone at home where you're just relaxing. I listen to the music and I enjoy it and if someone doesn't automatically think I am goth because I'm not wearing elaborate dark styled makeup, they will soon learn otherwise if they actually try to talk to me about the music lol.

So I would try not to worry about it. You know yourself better than others and if you enjoy the music, that's enough. I chill at home wearing my black sweats or lounge shorts while listening to some goth music and I feel content and I'm sure you'll get there too lol.

>My city does one of these most summers and I think its a great idea! Sometimes its even better if only a few chill people show up and you actually get to know them beyond edgy nickname, fav song and most obvious makeup inspo.


Exactly.

No. 285248

Did any North American Goth festivals/conventions survive lockdown? I need one that isn't across the pond in my life.
I checked a bunch of lists but most seem defunct and tbh the site the list was on looked like it was from VF era

No. 285304

>>285052
Loads of TIMs and e girls, literally the only place anyone has ever asked me for my pronouns IRL. There’s some attendance overlap sometimes with Cat Club in SF but The Cat Club crowd is more Gen X and DNA is more zoomer. This one Troon that goes to DNA often goes to cat club and wears like aliexpress uwu fetish shit and just watches himself dance in front of the mirror the whole night. I think DNA usually posts videos of their attendance on YouTube

No. 285357

>>285304
>Loads of TIMs and e girls

Ah okay, so no Goths at all then kek. And despite the overlap you mentioned, is the Cat Club better than DNA in the sense that they play goth music and attract more goths there?

No. 286793

File: 1662747584657.jpg (52.23 KB, 736x736, brandon_lee.jpg)

What do nonnies think of no make-up/little make-up and no black hair aesthetic? Since goth subculture has (perhaps had) a strong counter cultural element to it, I assume having to dye your hair a specific colour to feel a part of it would be just pure conformity. I also don't like the idea of wearing make-up daily or sporting a heavy look, this clashes with my views on performative femininity (although I know most make-up styles embraced by goth women and men aren't very traditional, and the fact that men wear make-up too also makes a diferrence) and my concerns about toxicity in cosmetic products. I have fair hair and wish to keep my natural colour and experiment with hairstyles instead. What are your thoughts on this? Do you dye your hair? Does make-up play a special role in your appearance?

No. 286871

>>286793
Do what you're comfortable with, as you say the all black 'uniform' is (most of the time at least) just conformity from people who have their value in the wrong places and seek the easiest tool to enter/get validated from an established community. Experiment to find your aesthetic within your own boundaries.
I had the same concerns as you ages ago when I was more into the local community. Most of the time, the most striking looks where sported by clueless teens listening to industrial and thinking platform boots made them goths lol. I'm not gonna lie, I do sometimes want to dye my hair black just because it would make me look paler and sofisticated. But then I remember the important thing is what comes out of my earphones, why should I showcase everyone around me how goth I am at any time?
Personally, since I'm an autist and have my sensitivity issues, I've dropped nail polish, heavy jewelry, certain synthetic fabrics. Makeup, as in full face, I reserve for band concerts. For daily life a simple black eyeliner is enough. You know, when you get older you finally understand the venerable oldfags who dressed in simple band t-shirts and black denims haha. You can focus in having fun with your friends instead of making a competition out of your looks.

No. 286938

>>86956
what the fuck i think my dad was in this band

No. 286975

File: 1662816906497.jpg (52.09 KB, 576x577, 15943143230_b3eaac032d_z.jpg)

>>286793
I used to dye my hair red (as in ginger) because I loved the contrast with dark clothing. I did try black at some point but it just looks better on other people. With make-up, I borrowed more from japanese fashion magazines and used muted browns and plums, sometimes blues, to create "pseudo-black" eyeshadow looks that would look more flattering on my skin tone and features, and bitten lip look in the darkest red I could find.
I'm not going to blog my entire life story but basically I couldn't afford to be ugly and it forced me to come up with my own stuff and experiment and my hairmake ended up becoming my "brand". Now I'm more like you.

It's very possible to keep an interesting style even if you don't use make-up or hair dye imo. I think it's better to focus on your personal influences, rather than whether your look will be perceived as Undeniably Goth or not. You'll never be able to flex on the Killstar alt zoomers kek don't waste your time

>>286871
Agree. Also I'd love to know what your staple outfits are like, my sensory issues only get worse and I can't find anything wearable anymore.

No. 287141

>>286793
the white base and black hair aesthetic depends a lot on ethnicity imo. i'd never dye my hair black because it is already dark brown and my skin is also brown, it would only enhance my ethnicity instead of giving me a ghostly look. but a black eyeliner is more than enough to make an outfit.

No. 287421

>>286793
Analyzing what you have said here, it makes me think you're focusing too much on the physical appearance and thinking that in order to be a true goth, you have to look a certain way by wearing a ton of makeup and having a certain hair color.
My response to that is just don't sweat it. Don't worry about dressing a certain way and doing things that you may not want to do aesthetically. Goth is music-based and all you need is to just listen to the music among the other music you listen to.

Now if you're just asking this question with genuine interest on what goths think of when it comes to not dressing like a stereotypical goth or alternative person? I don't mind at all. I do tend to wear mostly black because I simply like how it looks on me but I've also worn other colors. And I nope, I don't buy gOfF fashion like Killstar neither, most of my stuff is either basic or thrifted.
I have kept my hair black though because I just don't think I'd look good with other hair colors but that's just my personal choice.

>>286871
All of this, is so right on.
>Personally, since I'm an autist and have my sensitivity issues, I've dropped nail polish, heavy jewelry, certain synthetic fabrics. Makeup, as in full face, I reserve for band concerts. For daily life a simple black eyeliner is enough.

I'm kinda the same way as well as a fellow autist. I'll still occasionally paint my nails but not as much as I used to and I rarely ever do full on makeup looks anymore neither since it just made me feel uncomfortable and I find that I'm more than fine with good old black eyeliner and the occasional subtle black eyeshadow paired with it when the mood strikes.

>>286975
>I did try black at some point but it just looks better on other people

I'm the opposite lol. I remember wanting to try dying my hair red because I thought it looked quite beautiful with dark clothing like you said but I just feel like I wouldn't be able to pull it off and that it looks better on other people. Maybe I'll bite the bullet and try sometime but point is that just as nice as black looks awesome with dark clothes, so does red and even blonde because of the contrast they provide.

No. 288174

>>286871
>>286975
>>287141
Thank you for your replies, nonnies!
>>287421
I think you're under the wrong impression, I was rather arguing the opposite and just asking for personal opinions. Thanks for your reply too, nona!

No. 289234

old BBC documentary about goth/punk/alt fashion in 1983

No. 292175

I'm glad people like Robert Smith exist

No. 292449

Does anyone else get annoyed when you're hearing people talk and they say that they like "goth things" and then go on to list a bunch of shit like spiders, ghosts, witches, Tim Burton, etc? I was listening to this podcast and one of the guest who claims to be goth but doesn't listen to the music was talking about Halloween and how she thinks it's a "goth holiday" and in my head I'm thinking she's a dumbfuck because simply liking Halloween and things like witches, spiders, etc are not "goth things".

No. 292458

>>292449
It's very trendy right now to be cool and alt, and "for me halloween is all year not just one day", goth gets mixed into it unfortunately because the average person doesn't know about the music, they know the eyeliner and black outfits.

No. 292502

>>292458
Yeah I have noticed this and it's been like this for awhile now. I think it's just getting to me a bit because it's becoming a lot more frequent. Like no joke, a couple months back I even heard someone say that Monster High is a "goth show". Like are you fucking serious? lol.

No. 293159

So I've been aware of the whole "Whimsigoth" "aesthetic" for awhile now and I'm not afraid to say that it's another misappropriation of goth since it has nothing to do with the music-based scene, this video kinda cements my annoyance with this younger generation when it comes to this kinda stuff.

Is it just me or does it seem that a lot of the younger generation don't actually participate in the scenes they claim to be a part of. Like listening to this chick in the video and how she didn't listen to any of the music in "whimsigothic" or seen the movies and is just all about the fashion, it just amazes me how shallow so many of these people are, it's not even the girl in the video necessarily as I've seen lots of people like this in recent years with this whole "core" trend started.

Anyway I know in the grand scheme this isn't important but I just had to vent a bit.

No. 293373

Sorry for the super late reply here but to
>>285248
Absolutionfest in FL is still running, I think it just finished this weekend actually.

No. 295228

i have a weird recollection of goth in the mid-late 00s and I'm jw if anyone else experienced goth to be like this or if it was just a weird bubble i was in

basically "goth" was very uncool, but listening to post-punk, wearing all black, dying and teasing your hair WAS cool. but you did NOT call yourself or bands goth.
gothic rock and death rock bands were lame to listen to, it was only ok to like post-punk and some darkwave bands.
wearing all black vintage clothes is nice, but things like corsets? cheesy.
you could dye your hair and tease it or have an interesting hair cut, you could wear eyeliner and a red lip but if you went "overboard" like having a death hawk or really dramatic winged liner that's stupid and you actually look more like a poser.
looking back at this time the people who were judging the more "extreme" goths and vehemently denying that they were goth, were very much still goth, so why did people have this attitude? was it a pushback because it was right after mall goth was popular? were these people a weird hipster-goth hybrid because it was a period that hipsters were cool?
i remember when goth youtubers started becoming popular, i was shocked they were always labeling themselves goth and trying to prove how goth they were because of my previous perception of that stuff being a no-no.

No. 295253

File: 1666407972753.png (424.03 KB, 951x1200, Theda Bara.png)

Im in kind of a funny place, I still love goth music and media and listen to it a lot but i've grown tired of the visual when i was like 19, do I even still call myself goth? Whenever someone asks me what I listen to im like "oh like 80s-90s music with kind of an ethereal synth sound".
Back when I did dress the vibe I was very inspired by 1920s movies and sort of a vampiric image, pretty sure Theda Bara (picrel) was my lockscreen at some point.

No. 296151

What do you think of Rendez-Vous nonnies?

No. 296191

>>295228
I wasn't into goth in the 00s and didn't get into the scene until about 2010 but I remember I would see a lot of mislabeling in hindsight. Like back during the days of VampireFreaks an how people were labeling bands like Psyclon Nine, Rammstein, Evanescence, HIM, and other similar bands as "goth". As for people choosing to call themselves "goth" or not, I really do think it depends on location.

I'm a millennial and currently in the my 30s and where I lived, I did see the whole "you don't call yourself goth" rhetoric but this went for any alternative subculture like Punk and Emo. Meanwhile one of my older friends who has been into goth music a lot longer than I have shared that where she lived, no one gave anyone crap if they called themselves goth so long as they actually listened to the music. They mostly reserved the poser label for what she called "the spooky kids", the kids who thought that dressing in black while listening to Nu Metal and Industrial while carrying around a Marilyn Manson luncbox and thought they were goth for it.

>gothic rock and death rock bands were lame to listen to, it was only ok to like post-punk and some darkwave bands.


Yeah the older friend I mentioned hates Deathrock though I'm not sure if she made fun of people back then for listening to it. I did turn her onto Horror Vacui and she said "they aren't actually terrible" lol.

>looking back at this time the people who were judging the more "extreme" goths and vehemently denying that they were goth, were very much still goth, so why did people have this attitude? was it a pushback because it was right after mall goth was popular?


I feel like the reason why this was a mentality back then was because some people felt too embarrassed to admit that they had a deep interest in something so niche to the public. The mainstream bastardization of goth in the 90s and 00s probably didn't help neither.

No. 296192

>>295253
I'm confused by your dilemma anon. IF you still like listening to Goth music, that's really all that matters. If you're feeling this way because you don't dress up in elaborate outfits anymore, that's no big deal. The truth is that a lot of us as we age slow down to just outright opting for comfier styles, it's normal.

No. 296193

File: 1666833399535.jpg (27 KB, 500x400, s-l500.jpg)

>>295228
>>293159
Speaking from the perspective of gen z: alternative subcultures, especially goth, have changed so much that's it's almost purely a fashion style now. Punk and emo and goth have sort of merged into one including their beliefs and music. I think one reason punk and goth subcultures were so tight-knit was that there wasn't really anything like it, you weren't being mistaken for emos or e-girls. And the only way you could get goth clothing was by DIY, market stalls and charity shops. Now alternative fashion and even wearing black is quite commonplace, it's harder to differentiate why goth is separate. Plus, the music has changed so much. Things like psychobilly and etherealwave aren't relevant at all now, so that's another part of goth subculture that's been lost. There's a big crossover with LGBT people and dressing alternatively; the punk "aesthetic" is very popular with the nonbinary and trans crowd. I'm not really sure why that is. /rant
>>295253
>Back when I did dress the vibe I was very inspired by 1920s movies and sort of a vampiric image
That sounds cool, have you got any examples?

No. 296194

File: 1666833517738.jpeg (1.37 MB, 1170x2127, 22003039-E16C-49DE-8734-653127…)

>>86956
I love the idea of adding non-Western cultural elements to goth.

No. 296195

>>296193
It’s annoying how despite the aesthetic being popular the music isn’t at all especially when compared to the 2000-2010s era

No. 296205

>>296193
Milennial here and while what you said hold some truth albeit shallow (not you personally, just the mentality of these people). Please don't take what I'm about to say as an attack, try to see it more as some slight educating.

> Now alternative fashion and even wearing black is quite commonplac


If you're referring to fast fashion, it's like, can we all be real here? Take a look at these self-proclaimed "goth" clothes that these companies pump out and ask yourself if this looks like something goth musicians were wearing back in the day. That just wasn't happening. You didn't see goht bands decked out in occult symbolism. And don't get me started on how some of these people don't understand that polytheistic religions like Wicca and Satanism are not "goth" things.

>it's harder to differentiate why goth is separate


I disagree. Maybe it's because I've been around for a long time now and have caught onto certain characteristics with looks actually relevant in the scene but personally, I can tell the difference between someone who more than likely is into what goth actually is vs a vapid trender. If you're decked out in a whole ensemble by Killstar, I am not afraid to say that I wouldn't believe the person is a goth at all.
And finally, goth music is still being made and it still sticks out from most genres of music.

>Plus, the music has changed so much.


Not really, the core of the goth sound is still there via the way the guitar sounds. It is true that with some bands, you see them experimenting with different singing styles and maybe even incorporating another style of instrument to the mix but the core fundamentals are still there.

>Things like psychobilly and etherealwave aren't relevant at all now


Psychobilly is not nor ever has been a goth subgenre, it's offshoot came from fusion of Punk Rock and Rockabilly. The "punkier" subgenre of goth is Deathrock. And Ethereal Wave, that subgenre of music was never all that popular, not compared to Darkwave and Goth rock which always were the most popular.

>There's a big crossover with LGBT people and dressing alternatively; the punk "aesthetic" is very popular with the nonbinary and trans crowd. I'm not really sure why that is.


I'm gonna e honest, it's fucking retarded is what it is. Goth never had anything to do with "qUeErNeSs". Call me a terf, not afraid to speak the truth, this is all just tardism and nevermind that most of these people don't even listen to the music anyway.

No. 296206

>>296194
No one is saying they can't though?

No. 296210

>>296194
She is super cute, I love that look on the left.

No. 296215

>>296205
>while what you said hold some truth albeit shallow
Such is the life of the zoomer.
>If you're referring to fast fashion,
I mean fashion in general. You could get a gothic outfit from Primark. Things like chains, chokers, BDSM-inspired clothing as well aren't hard to find nor as shocking now. I guess I should mention that where I live is full of students and all kinds of fashion styles, so it's not entirely out of the norm.
> If you're decked out in a whole ensemble by Killstar, I am not afraid to say that I wouldn't believe the person is a goth at all.
I agree. But not everyone who calls themself goth wears Killstar. And not everyone who wears Killstar identifies as goth. Let's be real, you can wear a black outfit and people may think you're goth, even if you don't listen to the music. If you can look identical to an actual goth yet have completely different music tastes, then it's no surprise that most people can't tell the difference and think it's a fashion movement. You can't really tell someone's music taste by their clothes anymore (maybe that defeats the point?).
>And finally, goth music is still being made
I know .. I don't think I've explained my points, sorry about that. I meant that what is considered goth music has shifted (depending on who you ask). And also not as relevant; I've literally never heard of anyone being called a poser in my life.
>Psychobilly is not nor ever has been a goth subgenre, it's offshoot came from fusion of Punk Rock and Rockabilly
Yes. But some goths of the 80s enjoyed that type of music and there was a crossover of people who liked the genres you listed and gothic ones. I'd say songs like by Boneshaker by Alien Sex Fiend were inspired by rockabilly (and The Cramps maybe), and they're a goth band right. And the rockabilly style definitely had an influence on gothic fashion. I haven't encountered that connection amongst zoomers. It's another facet of the goth community that's been lost, is what I'm trying to get across. The sort of music goth people liked has narrowed down to more popular stuff like metal and emo music (at least with people I know).
>Not really, the core of the goth sound is still there
Yet, what might be considered goth sound isn't. A lot of metal heads wear gothic fashion. Not saying that's what it means to be goth, but that's what I've noticed.
>Goth never had anything to do with "qUeErNeSs". Call me a terf, not afraid to speak the truth, this is all just tardism and nevermind that most of these people don't even listen to the music anyway.
Here,here!

No. 296242

File: 1666863477582.jpg (33.73 KB, 410x603, d5b30ced4cd90f7d692405ed5f70e3…)

>>86956
Someone help me find more photos of goth boys doing mundane everyday shit

No. 296245

>>296242
This is so beautiful and so pure.

No. 296260

>>296215
this anon is right, goth fashion just doesn't have that shock value like it used to which is why goth culture is sort of in stasis right now. it's just a matter of waiting to see if and how goth fashion will reinvent itself to go against the mainstream. people who have an affinity for the darker things in life have always existed, they just change with the times.

No. 296311

>>296215
>>296260
How do you think it could happen? I've been thinking about that for a while regarding different subcultures, not just goth.
When I was a little baby goth you had to fight tooth and nail to find something like a spiky collar, or make stuff like that yourself. I remember people barking at me (kek) when I wore a choker out. Nowadays it's really popular and so is outlandish make up.
Nowadays you're expected to look polished and/or glammed out. Either zoomer grungry, grimey fashion trends are still accompanied by precise, flawless make up. It might be smudged and dark but it has a very surgical 'clean' look to it.
So going the other way might be it imo. I could see a make up less look with teased hair and lots of layers as a rejection of the current norms in some way. Although we live in very image obsessed times so sometimes I feel like the only 'true' modern counter culture would be rejection of aesthetics in general.

No. 296328

File: 1666897525912.jpg (256.91 KB, 1280x1909, John Koviak.jpg)

>>296215
>I mean fashion in general. You could get a gothic outfit from Primark. Things like chains, chokers, BDSM-inspired clothing as well aren't hard to find nor as shocking now. I guess I should mention that where I live is full of students and all kinds of fashion styles, so it's not entirely out of the norm.

Chains, chokers, and BDSM inspired clothing are not goth staples thugh. Chains and chokers are universally popular in all alternative subcultures, especially Punk. When I say "certain characteristics", when it comes to goth I'm talking things like Winklepicker boots, the iconic Siouxsie / Patricia Morrison eye makeup style, big teased hair (or the death hawk), Ankhs, and dress shirts paired with rosaries. These are the staples of Goth where you don't tend to see these particular things outside of Goth. Well save for the ankh but you get what I mean lol.

>But not everyone who calls themself goth wears Killstar. And not everyone who wears Killstar identifies as goth.


In my anecdotal experience, I have not met any goth who was into Killstar, the sentiment I've heard from other goths about the brand is it's tacky or cheaply made clothes.

>Let's be real, you can wear a black outfit and people may think you're goth, even if you don't listen to the music.


True but that's been a thing since the 90s where people assumed that if anyone wore an all black ensemble, they were goth which is not true.

>If you can look identical to an actual goth yet have completely different music tastes


That's the thing though, most of the people don't look like actual goths. The stuff I mentioned prior about certain characteristics that are goth specific, most trendies don't wear these things and instead, are just wearing generic alternative looking stuff, often fast-fashion looking or trying to look like the "e-girl goff thot". I'm more likely to think a person is actually into goth if I see them wearing something like Winklepicer boots or have the big teased Robert Smith / Siouxsie Sioux hair, and the like vompared to someone who looks like they fell out of a Aliexpress/Shein dustbin and aren't wearing any of the staples I pointed out.

>You can't really tell someone's music taste by their clothes anymore (maybe that defeats the point?).


Eh with Goth, most definitely I can lol. As I said, goth has characteristics that aren't mainstream and that only someone who actively looks into the scene would pick up on compared to general generic alt stuff that you see today.

>I meant that what is considered goth music has shifted (depending on who you ask).


Except it hasn't. The only people who think that are clueless trenders who get butthurt when you call them out that their music taste aren't goth. This is no different than clueless teens back in the 2000s who would label bands like Evanescence, HIM, and Motionless In White as "goth bands" when they weren't. It's no different now with the clueless kids calling bands like Pale Waves, Billie Eilish, and Lil Peep as "goth".

> But some goths of the 80s enjoyed that type of music and there was a crossover of people who liked the genres you listed and gothic ones.


And? You realize that just because a certain person likes something doesn't make it the same right? A lot of early metal musicians were fans of Blues musicians, does that make blues musicians metal because some early metalehads like that music? Of course not. Goth is no different, just because goths also listen to non-goth music, it doesn't make the non-goth music goth by association. Goth is a defined music-based genre, nothing more, nothing less.

>Alien Sex Fiend's "Boneshaker Baby"


Not all of Alien Sex Fiend's music was Deathrock. Just like The Cure and Siouxsie, they too also jumped around with different genres with their music.
It's kinda like the band The Frozen Autumn. Contrary to popular belief, not all their music was Darkwave as they also dabbled with Synth Pop but that doesn't make Synth Pop goth, Synth pop is a new wave subgenre.

>The Cramps


The Cramps aren't a goth band, they were a varied band but they never dabbled with Goth rock or any of the goth subcgenres. They were definitely pioneers of Psychbilly like how Bsuhaus was the pioneer of Goth. But as I said before, Psychobilly is not a goth subgenre, just a subgenre of punk and rockabilly.

>The sort of music goth people liked has narrowed down to more popular stuff like metal and emo music (at least with people I know).


Then I'm sorry to be blunt but the people you know are posers if they're the kinda people who think lisening to metal and "emo" music while wearing black makes them "goth". They are the modern day "mallgoffs". Just because goth music isn't popular, the principles don't change.

No. 296333

File: 1666897832346.jpg (74.38 KB, 640x431, ThEMission.jpg)

>>296311
>So going the other way might be it imo. I could see a make up less look with teased hair and lots of layers as a rejection of the current norms in some way. Although we live in very image obsessed times so sometimes I feel like the only 'true' modern counter culture would be rejection of aesthetics in general.

Look at photos of goth bands from the 80s, they didn't look OTT at all. Picrel with The Mission, don't look outlandish at all lol.

No. 297637

>>296328
Hey I just remembered you replied to me.
>These are the staples of Goth where you don't tend to see these particular things outside of Goth.
Time marches on.
>Goth is no different, just because goths also listen to non-goth music, it doesn't make the non-goth music goth by association.
There is more to goth than the music otherwise why the hell does it matter what people wear.
>The Cramps aren't a goth band
I feel like we will have to disagree here.

No. 302606

hello do any of u nonnies know where some online stores that sell good clothing (specifically trad-goth items)

No. 306309

File: 1672841421026.gif (1.52 MB, 222x183, dancinggirl.gif)

To my beloved goth anons who are active on the goth/alternative scene or in similar scenes: How much money do you spend on going to clubs and concerts every month? How do you decide what events are you going to and what events are you missing? Specially if there's almost no activity in your area and missing an event probably means having to wait at least 2 months for something similar to be organised. There's a concert in february 2h away from my town and the ticket is 16€, it's not very cheap but the bands are pretty decent despite being unknown. The problem is that there's no afterparty following the concert so I'll have nowhere to go after midnight. The earliest bus departs at 7am and luckily there's a cafe nearby that stays open until 3am, so I'd only have to wander around the solitary city night for a few hours (or I could stay in the bus station having my own solo afterparty with my headphones). Bus tickets cost 7€ each trip so that night I'll be spending 30€ minimum (plus whatever drink I order in the cafe).Is it a reasonable price for going out just this time in february? I'd really like to go and have fun dancing while wearing a nice outfit for once, but at the same time I know this is a rather expensive adventure. What do you think? Any advice from similar experiences?

>>302606
I can't really recommend because I've never bought clothing online from an alternative style shop. What are you looking for exactly, nona?

No. 306366

>>302606
There aren't.

No. 306595

File: 1673015906825.gif (1.95 MB, 480x368, HighlevelConventionalFlyingfis…)


No. 306701

I'll never get to go to a nightclub like this…

No. 307321

Passing by to say gatekeeping is a good thing and goths need to gatekeep harder tbh.

No. 312521

How did she do?

No. 312769

I think the first TR/ST album captures the goth sound extremely well. One of the better albums in more recent years.

No. 313004

File: 1676557272823.jpeg (119.69 KB, 735x997, E593B7D7-B7A3-4026-B85D-12C8FE…)

can't stand fucking zoomers against gatekeeping. it is really that hard to listen to goth music? shit is already diverse and liking sioux or bauhaus isn't a must. you can't be a metalhead or punk without listening to metal or punk music, but somehow buying shein and killstar bullshit is enough to be goff. fuckers can't even sew or dye nowadays. i swear white people just make any excuse to feel oppressed instead of actually doing manual work with clothing. unsaged because of rage

No. 313010

Just want to say I love that this thread is inspired by old-school goths. When I heard goth was back and saw memes about "big tiddy goth gf" I thought oh cool, the kids are alright! Then I saw that it's just zoomers wearing e-girl makeup and black tennis skirts, it really threw me for a loop

No. 313011

>>312521
I like it, I think she pulls it off well

No. 313441

>>313004
This is so cringey. Who gives a fuck about what other people do, just live your totes magotes authentic goth life, retard. People who consider themselves "legit" in a fucking fashion or music scene are insufferable. They always have to project, proclaim, and compete with others interested in the scene, which takes away any coolness of being authentic. White people waaaaah shut the fuck up and go back to twitter

No. 313451

>>313441
for real, the rant sounded okay up until the "wah yt ppl" part. there's people of every race that don't want to/don't have time to diy.
>>312521
looks good

No. 313458

>>313441
found the killstar goth

even the 2000s mallgoths were more legit because they actually gave a fuck about music unlike zoomer goths that literally ignore any goth music influences and just go straight for the ~*aesthetics*~~

No. 313460

File: 1676839963400.png (3.22 KB, 355x69, uuuu.png)

>>312769
Ah yes, this is good stuff. I'm playing Sulk right now after all these years and for a few moments I feel like it's 2016 again and I just dyed my hair black for the first time! I don't do that shit anymore tho… Goth feels as dead now as it did to me back then. Who said that goth can't die because it's undead?

No. 313525

>>313441
lmao can you read? i stated that there's only one rule to be part of most alt scenes/cultures and that rule is just listen to the genre attached to it. and said rule includes a wide range of styles and artists. it is too difficult for a killstar zoomie?
>>313451
since most people interesed in such a non issue as muh gatekeeping and goth are white, its a cringey but relevant fact

No. 313580

>>313525
sounds like you came straight from reddit.

No. 313716

Asking for some advice;
I have always loved goth culture and feel drawn to it, thing is I always shy away because I am poc, chubby and always thought of goth fashion as pricey.
Now I have a bit of adult money (not much) and want to try DIY, thing is, I don’t know from where to start and I would like to go as androgynous as possible, any batanons to share inspo, ideas or tutorials?

No. 313842

File: 1677056415857.jpeg (118.13 KB, 1024x682, 6247A96E-4E8A-4F7F-9ED3-BE0FBA…)

>>313716
Hi, nonna. I’m a non-white goth who’s been involved in my local scene for about a year. Regarding clothes, start with the basics. Use dark/black clothes that you already own as a base for outfits. If you want to buy anything, I would recommend buying clothing second hand before splurging on new items. Some of my favorite clothes I’ve gotten from thrift stores, or websites like Poshmark. Tights are really good way to make an outfit look more gothic. You can wear tights as is, or cut the crotch and make a fish-net type shirt for layering. Look for jewelry bundles on places like eBay or Etsy for some cheap and spooky accessories. You can use old fabric from shirts as a base for band pataches. Basic paint will do.

Regarding being non-white in the goth scene, I haven’t encountered overt bigotry by other people in the scene. I was worried I was gonna get called a poser, or worse, feel ostracized from everyone else. But my experience has been pretty positive so far. I even made other minority goth friends. Good luck!

No. 313846

>>313458
>>313525
Case in point. Cope and seethe and tell yourself I'm a "Killstar goth" (fucking gay), I don't conform to a scene like a weak loser.

No. 313848

>>313846
NTA but it's retarded to say you're goth or punk if you don't listen to the music. It's a music subculture, that's the bare minimum. Imagine someone said they're an artist, but they don't produce any art themselves and just dress artsy. You're just cosplaying.

No. 314268

File: 1677288913955.jpg (175.02 KB, 960x1280, b0d7ee28b39c4effe800863e52be91…)

>>313716
Hey there anon, fellow POC goth here and I've been in the scene for about 11 years now. Please don't worry about your race when getting in the scene because for the most part, people in the scene will not give you shit because of your race, most are very accepting and inviting. The main thing that matters is that you actually listen to the music. If you listen to actual goth music, you're gonna have no problem at all because they will know that you actually like the subculture for what it truly is centered around.

>>313842 offered some very good advice on cultivating a wardrobe but I want to emphasize to not get too wrapped in trying to looking dressed up all the time because all that will do is give you identity crisis'. This is why I highly suggest remembering to get involved with the music. Look at different goth playlists on places like YouTube and Spotify and so on.

All that I can't stress in saying is please don't think that the subculture is racist because there aren't very many goth bands with black musicians. Please remember that this is not because goth is racist but the reality is that not very many black people are interested in making goth music. I just can't stress this enough because this is an annoying pitfall I see many black alt people fall into thinking that alt subcultures are racist when the reality is that not many black people are interested in making the music.

No. 314269

>>312521
I think that looks-wise she pulled it off. Compared to other videos of "goth makeovers" where most of them are fails because they just don't look like they came out of the goth scene at all, she actually looks like she's ready for a night at the Batcave so she nailed it. It's just a shame that she didn't play a goth song for her showcase.

No. 314570

>>314268
>>313842
Thank you Nonnies!
I have been into the music and adjacent genres since my teen days, as I was leaving metal music behind I shifted towards darker music, even since childhood I’ve been into goth literature, art, inspired movies and so on, I just now got over my fear of expressing it through fashion.
Today I went shopping and looked for a couple of things that could even be modded, gathered a bunch of jewelry I want to mod aswell. I am very excited.
I always cut my hair myself and I am in love on how a V fringe looks on me, thank you for your support I can’t wait to be able to put outfits together naturally!

No. 314642

>>302606
A lot of trad goth clothing is just DIY shit and stuff you find thrifting. You could try Lip Service though, they've been around since the 80s and their shit is super cute.

No. 314901

File: 1677725438523.png (706.57 KB, 688x456, Screen Shot 2023-03-02 at 1.40…)

I've been in my local (punk) scene for like a year and a half now and honestly the longer I've been in the scene the more jaded I've become. It's so fucking painful how fake everyone is, there have been multiple times where I'm talking to a band and then some fucking rat scurries in and starts trying to advertise and ask to play with them. Every time someone tells me that they actually hate a person they act buddy buddy with, 10 years gets taken off my life. Don't get me started on how popular synth punk is here because I fucking hate it. Still love going to shows though
At least JTHM is funnier now compared to first reading it at 14 with no knowledge of any scenes.

No. 316371

Does anyone else get annoyed when you come across some of these poser goths who you know don't like the music but in their little outfit videos, they play classic sounding music thinking that it totally makes them goth? I don't have anything against classical music as I'm sure a lot of us here have some passing appreciation for it. I just find it funny how some of these wannabe goths think that playing Beethoven or Mozart in their outfit videos makes them totally goth passing.

No. 317334

>>316371
Well, I get annoyed at the tiniest shit so I don't have IG or TikTok. But I do hate posers who have the same online presence as normies. Social media has affected subcultures negatively imho.

No. 318220

File: 1679613262236.jpg (16.14 KB, 285x400, 53077954_XS.jpg)

Can someone make a meme with this?

No. 318438

>>306309
This is long after your event but I think it's an interesting question, I don't make that much money and still probably spend a minimum of $1500 a year on events, but we have goth or goth-adjacent stuff to go to almost every weekend in my city. I try to get out every Friday and Saturday, 3 or 4 weeks a month, most months of the year unless I am away visiting family in December. I probably spend at least $20 on alcohol while there, and events usually range between rare $5 and more common $10-15 admission, up to 20, rarely as much as 40-60 for annual events. I live downtown relatively close to venues so I can normally take the public transit and save money on expensive cabs, but I know for many people (who I see out as often as I am) transportation is their most expensive hurdle, on top of spending twice as much on drinks and who knows how much on the occasional bump of cocaine or whatever the kids are into these days.

It's certainly expensive but it requires a community willing to spend that money, for the scene to thrive, for the bands and DJs to get by, for the venues to stay open, and so on. Since covid most of our scene has dried up and is in its death throes, but luckily the bats are coming back out of the bell tower and our old haunts are opening back up.

I think DIY is so important because the young people should be making good memories, enjoying youth, spending their money on events and helping support the real life scene they're interested in, rather than spending all that money on clothes from companies that don't give a shit, to look cool to the vain skin-deep online community.

No. 318851

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I don’t know if I’m biased, but I always thought I hated romantic goth. I now see that I only hate the “female” version of it. Why does it look so tacky, both illustrations and fashion always looked so bad to me. Lucky for me I look great in fag vampire clothes.

No. 318891

>>318851
it always looks extremely tacky because they're using cheap synthetic materials to imitate the style of very wealthy people who had bespoke garments tailored to their bodies and made to last a lifetime. male fashion in general is lower effort and has evolved much less. the masculine silhouette has barely changed so gothic/victorian accents here and there seem more more subtle and sensible than the gowns and corsets on the other side of the fashion, and more gathering/billowing ruffles and frills and so on makes it easier to see light, thin, sheeny, shitty fabric on the women's end of things, while men's stuff is more stiff and structured and can get away with looking boxy and ill fitting, probably.

No. 319033

>>318891
I agree, but I mean the whole aesthetic, even illustrations look gross to me. Urgh.

No. 319725

>>317334
AYRT that's fair I don't have TikTok but Ido have IG though i don't browse on it all the much. It's just that on YouTube when I'm searching for Goth content creators, I come across some YouTube Shorts of "goths" and they're these girls wearing all black but playing classical music and plastering "goth" in it and I'm just like really? lol It's a petty nitpick I know but it's just funny because you know these people more than likely don't listen to Goth music.

It's kind of the same as when you see people claim to be goth and will only play Bauahus' "Bela Lugosi's Dead" or Siouxsie and the Banshee's "Spellbound" in their outfit video clip and you just know that these girls don't actually listen to the music and just go for the most well-known song that pops up on Google or YouTube search lol.

No. 319810

>>318438
>I think DIY is so important because the young people should be making good memories, enjoying youth, spending their money on events and helping support the real life scene they're interested in, rather than spending all that money on clothes from companies that don't give a shit, to look cool to the vain skin-deep online community.

I agree with this a lot and I feel this is what the younger generation doesn't understand when it comes to alternative subcultures in general. They seem to get so wrapped up in looking a certain way to look cool and edgy while not giving attention to the actual substance of the respective subculture treating it like some trend which is why they tend to get burned out so quickly because they're only focusing on it from a shallow level. The actual "community" was built around the music while also bringing in DIY and events to bring everyone together.

I think back to a video someone recorded at Coachella that was flooded with "influencers" and how instead of taking in the music, they were all just filming themselves and taking selfies….

No. 320603

>>319725
Yeah, I understand your exasperation. Let's hope it doesn't take much longer until goth becomes unpopular again.
>>318438
Thanks a lot for replying! I'm still interested in hearing other anon's opinions and experiences like yours because I'm still struggling to decide how much should I spend on weekends. I've decided I'm going to live April to the fullest and I've already bought so many tickets to alt events. It's pretty much like you said, some people can cut expenses depending on their personal situation. In my case I have to spend literally the same amount of money on transportation than in tickets.
>I think DIY is so important because the young people should be making good memories, enjoying youth, spending their money on events and helping support the real life scene they're interested in, rather than spending all that money on clothes from companies that don't give a shit, to look cool to the vain skin-deep online community.
Exactly.
>>319810
>They seem to get so wrapped up in looking a certain way to look cool and edgy while not giving attention to the actual substance of the respective subculture treating it like some trend which is why they tend to get burned out so quickly because they're only focusing on it from a shallow level.
Yess. I think when gatekeeping goth stopped being a thing, and many regular clothing brands helped to push the whole X subculture as an aesthetic with Goth and Metal particularly, things pretty much went to shit. A decade ago it was very obvious who claimed to belong to a subculture which they didn't actually care about. Now I see people, specially young girls, who show their apparently super elaborated and layered looks and bedrooms on social media but I can't help but feel everything as unauthentic. And I'm talking about people who call themselves goth.

No. 320640

>>320603
>Yeah, I understand your exasperation. Let's hope it doesn't take much longer until goth becomes unpopular again.

AYRT FFR, I cannot wait for this day to come because it's so annoying seeing this happen. Though I will say that on the upkeep, goth music has been going stronger than ever despite the poser trend the name "goth" has gotten in recent years.

>I think when gatekeeping goth stopped being a thing, and many regular clothing brands helped to push the whole X subculture as an aesthetic with Goth and Metal particularly, things pretty much went to shit.


Totally and this is why gatekeeping is actually good because look at the bullshit that has happened with Goth. Heck even Metal and Punk wasn't spared but at least with Metal, Metalheads don't give a shit on calling out posers, well at least the old ones anyway because I'm sure younger generation Metalheads are much more hesitant. But either way goth needs the same kind of handling. I mean it's not like those of us who know that goth is a music-based scene are keeping the music away from newcomers.

People who are actually interested in the scene will put in the work to legitimately learn about it and see if it's the scene for them and that is what a lot of young generation today don't seem to comprehend (or they're too lazy.

>Now I see people, specially young girls, who show their apparently super elaborated and layered looks and bedrooms on social media but I can't help but feel everything as unauthentic.


"Unauthentic", that's the perfect word to describe this, great word choice anon. It just feels so soul-less, these girls because you know deep down they don't actually care and in a year or two, they'll be on to the next trend.

No. 320648

>>320640
>>320603
I share your sentiments noons, but the word is "inauthentic"

No. 320720

>>320648
Oops my bad lol

No. 321611

File: 1681501136032.png (545.09 KB, 1500x1500, CConfessions_Trajan_Large.png)

>>320640
Yes! And why are teens nowdays so hesitant to get to know the subculture? When I was in high school I was so scared of being fake, it took me years to feel a little bit knowledgeable on goth music and ffs I've never declared myself goth.Now it's all about picking the label Goth and claiming it is whatever they decide it is!
>>320648
>>320720
Lmao anon

By the way, does anyone listen to the Cemetery Confessions podcast? I've listened to a couple of the Gothquisition episodes and they're actually fun, I like the female guests a lot.

No. 321987

>>321611
>Yes! And why are teens nowdays so hesitant to get to know the subculture? When I was in high school I was so scared of being fake, it took me years to feel a little bit knowledgeable on goth music and ffs I've never declared myself goth.Now it's all about picking the label Goth and claiming it is whatever they decide it is!

Same! Granted I'm a millennial in my 30s and I didn't get into goth until I was 16, I was scared of being seen as fake as well. .I remember when I went through a fake punk phase in mu freshmen thinking I was so punk because I listened to bands like Blink-182, Green Day, and Good Charlotte and I got called out by an actual punk who listened to actual punk bands like Bad Brains, The Germs, and Black Flag kek It was embarrassing but I'm glad someone told me what was up and I kept that in mind when I found my way to goth. The kids today would say that I experienced gatekeeping but it really wasn't, I was being a dumb ass kid who didn't know what actual punk was.


I don't understand why teens are hesitant to give the subculture an actual try by listening to the music. They whine about elitism but it's not elitism, those of us who know what goth is about don't think we are better than newbies.

>Cemetery Confessions


I used to watch his podcast a few years back and I thought it was good but he eventually started going a little too political which isn't something I'm personally into and stopped watching.

No. 322397

>>321987
>They whine about elitism but it's not elitism, those of us who know what goth is about don't think we are better than newbies.
Exactly!
>I used to watch his podcast a few years back and I thought it was good but he eventually started going a little too political which isn't something I'm personally into and stopped watching.
Yeah, now I get what you mean. I started with some of the older episodes and now that I've checked more recent ones I notice some remarks I'm not very fan of. For instance, Zakkarrii (who I was about to bring up itt because one anon was requesting opinions and experiences from goths of color) calls herself non-binary now. I can't believe people are willing to gatekeep and defend a 50 year old subculture but not actual womanhood.

No. 322406

>>322397
> I can't believe people are willing to gatekeep and defend a 50 year old subculture but not actual womanhood.
Nta but I agree. Goth has always been very accepting and perhaps more left-leaning, but I feel in recent years there’s been this alienation going on regarding politics. Perhaps this phenomenon is just online, but I have joined goth groups and communities where if you were not a staunch supporter of the transgender ideology or the harmful “sex-positive” stuff (think OF, sex work, and porn), then you are practically shunned. I’m a feminist, so this can be difficult at times.

Sorry to bring drama into this, but I think of the case of Kai Decadence. He had some fairly good resources in his videos and listened to the music, but once it was found out that he was gender critical, he became the “one that shall not be named”. Other YouTubers called him out and blocked him, then on the goth subreddit he was banned and posts were made warning others not to follow him anymore. It just seemed extreme to me.
Then a while back, Angela Benedict made a statement regarding the transgender movement. I can’t remember what exactly because everything has been deleted, but anyone with a differing viewpoint or tried to debate this was blasted by her followers, and she basically said that fans of her who were “transphobic” were unwelcome. It’s hard to say if she is actually a supporter or if she is just trying to save face (like most people online), but the point is that anyone that did not agree with the ideology for whatever reason was met with aggression and a hard statement of “You do not belong in the Goth community.”

I guess what I’m saying is, I wish it wasn’t always so hostile online when it comes to this topic and like you said, many of us are just trying to defend our spaces and rights as women.

No. 322521

>>322397
>Yeah, now I get what you mean. I started with some of the older episodes and now that I've checked more recent ones I notice some remarks I'm not very fan of. For instance, Zakkarrii (who I was about to bring up itt because one anon was requesting opinions and experiences from goths of color) calls herself non-binary now. I can't believe people are willing to gatekeep and defend a 50 year old subculture but not actual womanhood.

AYRT, yeah exactly. I first discovered the podcast back in 2015 and I found it so refreshing to find a podcast that actually talked about goth music but also talked about various pop culture outside the scene while goth was the main focus. The cohosts were interesting as well but as I said, they eventually started talking politics and it was so far lefty that I just couldn't hang I guess. I mean I'm a leftist myself but I don't agree with everything that the far left pushes for.

>Zakami identifies as nonbinary now


Does she really? It's been a hot minute since I watched the podcast but the last time I watched, she didn't call herself "nonbinary". I agree with you, it's quite sad how people are willing to defend the subculture but won't do the same for womanhood. It doesn't help that so many women in the goth scene have started identifying as nonbinary as well (while hilariously looking as feminine as possible). It's fucking depressing to see tbh.

No. 322522

>>322406
Oh my gosh I was wondering if this topic would come up about how trans ideology has totally captured the goth scene. Thankfully this is lolcow and most of us here are not TRAs on this platform so I feel safe speaking about it here and you're absolutely right and I agree with you.

I heard about the drama with Kai Decadence and how he was outcast by the scene because he is gender critical. I missed the Angela Benedict fiasco though, I heard the she made a video where she threw Kai under the bus and show her support for the transgender ideology but she deleted the video before I could watch it. It doesn't seem like it was up long it seems.

I think it's absolutely frustrating how the trans ideology is so divisive in the scene to where if you aren't a supporter of it, you're essentially blacklisted from the scene.

No. 323718

File: 1682490772134.gif (968.27 KB, 450x345, 470df32987929b3c26329a12ac4b60…)

Does anyone else get annoyed whenever a self-proclaimed "goth" feels the need to label anything that they're interested in that happens to be spooky or dark as "goth"?

"That shirt is just totally goth" (shirt has a graphic of a cat with a pentacle or moon on it's forehead)
"I totally got to wear this "GOTH" cross"
"I've gotta have my "goth coffee""

I watch this streamer who I personally don't think is a real goth as whenever anyone asks her what her favorite band is, she doesn't list any goth bands and the one time she shared what goth music she liked, she named Voltaire and anyone who knows his music knows he doesn't make goth music Anyway she always feels the need to call certain non-goth related things as "goth" and I just find it irritating.

I hate that it bothers me because it feels like I have a stick up my ass but yet it just annoys me and it makes me think that the person doing this is insecure and it comes off very poseur. Like they know that they aren't really into the music but want to keep their "goth cred" or something.

No. 323840

>>323718
Yes, it’s grating sometimes. I had an ex that had no interest in goth music and said he disliked it when I played it for him, but when he started skinwalking me as part of his transition (he trooned out), suddenly he began calling anything and everything “goth”. He met a group of like-minded people who had this same stupid mentality as well, that anything black was goff. They loved calling themselves goths, but none of these retards actually listened to goth music, just electronic and pop. It’s strange that these posers are so attached to a label and use “goth” as a descriptor for literally anything. It’s one thing if you actually listen to goth music and do that, I don’t really care then, it’s just when bozos who know they hate the real scene do it. It’s cringe and makes them look stupid, it’s an odd fixation.

No. 324036

>>323840
Oh gosh I'm so sorry you are going through this with the creep skinwalking ex. And yeah he's a total poser by what you described since you actually played Goth music for him and he ended up not liking it. I can't help but feel for guys like that, it's some sort of fetish thing. I wouldn't be surprised if it was anyway.

>It’s one thing if you actually listen to goth music and do that, I don’t really care then


Oh I'm the same. When I hear people who actually know ad listen to goth music make little jokes like that, I don't mind it neither because I know deep down they are joking and actually do like and know what the subculture is about.

No. 325000

You wanna know what I don't get? Self-proclaimed "goths" who don't react to goth music. There's a ton of new goth music coming out but yet these "goths" don't bother reacting to it and react to non goth music.

I can't help but feel like these people are just posers who think they are "goth" because they like to wear black or get lots of tattoos. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that goths only listen to goth music, I'm sure that is not true for most of us here but when I go to a YT channel and all their react videos are of them just reacting to metal and/or hip-hop music and they don't have any playlists of their own that could give insight that they actually like goth music even if they don't react to it, I can't help but feel that these people are just poseurs.

I blame people like Social Repose and Jake Munro for this "goth reacts" fad.

No. 325037

>>325000
>I blame people like Social Repose and Jake Munro for this "goth reacts" fad.
Yes. Reeree Phillips did the same thing years ago too. She was a metalhead, but would always put “goth” in the title of her videos. She seems to have moved on now though.
It’s too bad this trend hasn’t died out after all these years already. I don’t lurk goff YouTube as much anymore so I’m surprised there’s still people doing “goth reacts to ____”.

No. 325140

>>325037
Oh yeah I forgot about ReeRee Phillips, she was another self-proclaimed "goth" who was really just a metalhead who did this as well.

And right, I still try looking for new goth youtubers to watch but sadly there really aren't many legit ones these days.

No. 325159

File: 1683103333692.jpeg (20.76 KB, 461x328, 1d-nicolas-cage-am-goth-bitly3…)

This headline always made me kek

No. 325193

>>325159
honestly… yeah. he does a lot of goth things even if he doesn't embody the fashion
>>314570
>>314268
im so late but i love you POC goth girls

No. 325194

>>325193
Oh I don't disagree with him at all its just the headline is really funny to me

No. 325557

>>325193
A lot of goth things like what lol

No. 325660

>>325557
He's mentioned goth rock bands in his musical taste. People think they have seen him at shows. He likes hammer and romantic horror. His collection of things has some overlap. He's adjacent in interest so, he's at the least darkly inclined.

No. 325913

Sorry if this comes off a little ignorant, but are there any new goth bands/singers whom I could listen to? I mostly listen to R&B (sorry to normiefag) but I'd love to get into goth music, and if there are any singers who have some of that soulful vibe while staying within the bounds of goth music. I've heard some older music which I did enjoy but I don't want to only listen to old music.

No. 325914

>>325913
Addendum just to explicate that by "soulful" I mean I'd also like if they have a strong, powerful/goosebumps-inducing voice (like Björk's). Also preferentially interested in woman artists.

No. 326154

>>325913
>>325914
We all gotta start somewhere. Now you coming from a R&B background… This one is tough because goth music and R&B are vastly different and I can't really think of any vocalists in goth who go for a singing style that you typically hear in R&B music.

That said maybe Gitane Demone may be right up your alley. Her voice has a "soulful" type of feeling to it that I think you might like.

No. 326800

>>325914
I tried to think of something that has a good jam and more traditionally emotive vocals. If you like bjork, she was in several post punk bands. You can find moving vocals that have depth but the feeling is going to be different. Eva O is an example of this. She can have lots of body but it's more drama than anything else. if you like the song linked try die laughing - firedance

No. 327243

Thanks for all the music recs!
>>326800
>>326154
>goth music and R&B are vastly different
Yeah without a doubt. It's kind of hard bouncing back and forth between the two because they're so different. I kind of chose goth music for that reason, didn't want to stay married to one genre so I picked one that was very different. I think the easiest way for me to transition is by listening to the genre for what it's worth and not trying to transfer over different styles. I was also worried about the label post-punk as a neophyte as I didn't want to be led astray into anything that is different from goth, but I assume goth music is a subcategory of post-punk?

I think when it comes to music of any genre, I like when a song has a very dark tone/sort of creepy sound to it. So far I like Siouxsie & the Banshees and the Cocteau Twins (admittedly the latter has a more ethereal quality which I also like). As for newer bands go I like Kælan Mikla. I think for older music I'm currently looking for songs from the 90s, since a lot of my other old music is about that age so it sounds recent enough to my ears (2000sfag soz) but doesn't make me feel like I'm trying to larp as my old lady who listens to a lot of 80s/90s music.

No. 327302

I just have to say I miss old school goths, the Gen X’ers I used to see out at the goth clubs in the late 2000s smoking cloves, drinking wine and lamenting the end of the 90s. I just always thought they were so cool, and I admired and appreciated their commitment to DIY and coming up with creative ways to find rad shit and make their own goth outfits. It was hard as fuck to find stuff, so you just had to get creative and make your own or mix and match, or go out of your way to drive to a store that specializes in goth/punk styles. Nowadays zoomers just buy some e-girl accessories from Amazon and call it a day and nobody even goes out dancing anymore.

No. 327680

>>327302
I totally get you aoon. Goth scene as far as the music goes is still going strong despite what some people say. I come across new goth music dropping every other day. Does it get high views? No, but even back in the 80s and 90s, goth was still a niche subculture and a lot of goth bands went unnoticed by the mainstream so the way I see it, the music scene as far as interest in creating it goes, it's still going strong.

But I agree that from the outside looking in, the gen x'ers and older millennial goths were so fun to watch.

>I admired and appreciated their commitment to DIY and coming up with creative ways to find rad shit and make their own goth outfits.


Agreed! Whenever I look at pictures of goths from the 1980s and 1990s, while they may share similar makeup styles, the outfits tended to look different from one another, even when in all black.They raided thrift stores and simple stores and found ways to DIY their clothes or find nifty accessories to help make their outfits pop while still managing to stand out from one another.
I still try to do this myself though I will admit I have bought some fast fashion but I try my best to take that one item and mix it with things I have thrifted to help keep it from looking too cookie-cutter if that makes sense?

I too have noticed that zoomers do exactly what you said and it's so boring to see because they end up looking the same clothing-wise.

No. 328866

>>327243
Punk-postpunk-goth. Siouxsie is technically placed in punk and pop, she never really thought of herself as goth and her music is adjacent. Cocteau Twins is dream-pop. Both get grandfathered in due to the time in which the club scene evolved and the groups thematic sound and visuals. Both groups had social ties to the scene and punk movement that spawned cureheads and goths. Post punk is more The Chameleons UK and pink turns blue. Goth is more late The damned, Corpus Delecti, The wake etc.

No. 330035

File: 1684769745423.png (860.55 KB, 2048x1385, 2004 goths.png)

Happy Goth Day, anons

No. 330036

>>330035
>would
>i'm str8
>would
>would
>str8

No. 330117

>>330035
Happy Goth day!

Special shoutout to anyone who went to Asylum in Sacramento in the late 2000s

No. 330248

>>330035
Happy goth day nonnas I was wondering if we had a goth thread here. Gotta share some Christian Death here since it’s my current earworm kek

No. 330266

>>330035
>Wouldn't
>Wouldn't
>Wouldn't
>Wouldn't

No. 330286

>>330266
Thanks for your valuable contribution

I must confess I’m a bit confused. I look through playlists of goth music and all the bands I read there are often called “not goth but dark adjacent”. I haven’t read one band name where people agreed “yes, it’s goth”. I didn’t grow up in an English speaking country so bands like Joy Division or Siouxie and the banshees were not really popular but we had our own goth music in our language. So were we all never goth or? This is just fucking with my mind a bit.
You all have been discussing a lot if music here, understandably but I wonder do you do other goth (maybe klishee) activities? Do you write poems or go visit cemeteries? kek
I never did but I really love old horror like Dracula and Frankenstein. I’m not so much of a reader anymore but I love listening to atmospheric audio books.

No. 330372

>>330248
Happy belated goth day, nonas. Here’s one of my favorite goth-Dark Wave bands, Selofan.

No. 330521

>>330286
>I must confess I’m a bit confused. I look through playlists of goth music and all the bands I read there are often called “not goth but dark adjacent”. I haven’t read one band name where people agreed “yes, it’s goth”. I didn’t grow up in an English speaking country so bands like Joy Division or Siouxie and the banshees were not really popular but we had our own goth music in our language.

Hm what country do you live in anon? Because I guarantee that there are probably some goth bands in your country but generally goth music is very niche and this is especially in countries outside the west.

>ou all have been discussing a lot if music here, understandably but I wonder do you do other goth (maybe klishee) activities? Do you write poems or go visit cemeteries? kek

I never did but I really love old horror like Dracula and Frankenstein. I’m not so much of a reader anymore but I love listening to atmospheric audio books.

There is no such thing as "goth activities" anon. The only thing required to be goth is to simply like and enjoy the music, the clothing is a bonus but not the core. Reading gothic literature or writing melancholic poetry is not a "goth" thing, anyone can be into doing those things and they wouldn't be goth for it. And I'll just be real here, the amount of goths who actually have an active interest in reading and keeping up with gothic literature is quite minuscule.

No. 330522

>>330248
>>330372
Awesome choices anons! Here is my contribution, it's a newer Goth band called Last Grasp. Not a music video but a kick ass song and just had to share.

No. 330537

>>330521
I’m from Germany. In hindsight I thought, maybe I never got exposed to the big ol classics simply because my friends didn’t listen to them.

>There is no such thing as "goth activities" anon. The only thing required to be goth is to simply like and enjoy the music

Anon I know this was more like tongue in cheek. I find it not uncommon for goths to have unconventional hobbies though so I was hoping to hear something interesting.

No. 330577

>>330537
AYRT and Germany? There are quite a few goth bands that hail from your country but again, I understand why you may not know of many since as I said before, it's a niche genre of music and this can especially be true if you don't know anyone who listens to the music.

Anyway some German goth bands that come to mind are The Merry Thoughts, Night Nail, The Tors of Dartmor, Shadowplay, Into the Abyss, Rosengarten, The Evil Speaks, and Frank The Baptist. Definitely give them a try when you have the time.

>Anon I know this was more like tongue in cheek. I find it not uncommon for goths to have unconventional hobbies though so I was hoping to hear something interesting.


Oh okay. I don't think I have any unconventional hobbies tbh lol.

No. 330693

>>330577
I think you completely misunderstood. I wasn’t looking for German bands recs. Just wanted to clarify that I used to only listen to German bands (Lacrimosa, Deine Lakeien, Goethes Erben, Stillste Stunde…) and not the founding fathers like Joy Division.
Upthread somebody recommended the Podcast Cemetery Confession. I recommend the Episode Grufties. That explains the scene here a bit better.
I was wondering something else, how do you listen to your music these days? I used to collect CDs and now I completely switched to digital music on either Spotify or YouTube.

No. 330858

>>328866
Ah, okay. I've seen those bands pop up quite a bit in goth music communities. I can definitely see how the Cocteau Twins evolved in their later music. Gonna look into those bands you mentioned, thanks!

No. 331017

>>330248
This slaps

No. 332883

File: 1685798334015.gif (1.05 MB, 499x275, D29D4927-1833-4AD4-B8F3-40CE29…)

Is it just me of do you think Robert Smith is very wholesome? Maybe I just dont understand him too well in interviews kek

No. 333086

>>332883
From the interviews I've seen, he seems pretty endearing.

No. 333233

Anyone else go to a Sisters show on the recent tour? Philly show was kinda bad. Major audio flubs. I was gifted a ticket and so I wasn't out any cash but if you're thinking of going or selling it may be something to consider. It was pretty painful if your were paying attention; a beginner level drag queen could have done better than Andrew.

No. 333296

>>332883
100%, he seems like such an unproblematic old guy. With his wife for nearly 50 years I think, gives interviewers conflicting answers sometimes just for the fun of it and has a healthy disdain for Ticketmaster. Good egg.

No. 333297

>>333296
(Samefag)

No. 334021

Have any of you heard of the "Goth Cruise"? Honestly this is an example of misappropriating Goth if I've ever seen any in recent years barring the whole "E-Girl" craze.

Don't be fooled by the Siouxsie and the Banshees song, I took a look at some of the bands who have played this event expecting there to be goth bands performing but all of the bands who've played this are Industrial or Dark electronic. NI fail to see how you can call this a "Goth cruise" when you don't include goth bands to play the event.

No. 334400

File: 1686341571985.png (349.28 KB, 828x1792, D5AEB14E-FC05-4D63-99D2-E9D3C5…)

I’m officially offended by this. Black Veil Brides and Ville Valo did a Sisters of mercy cover and it’s horrible. Ville sounds like Jeffree Star?? And I don’t have to say anything about BVB.

No. 334419

>>330035
would, would, would, would and would.

No. 334420

>>334400
>bvb
>unwelcome scream at the intro
>vv's shitty vibrato
>not a single Ofra Haza sample detected anywhere
who is this even for exactly? like, what does this awful cover bring to the table, that the original and the '92 re-recording don't already provide? the gall of these has-beens!

No. 334422

File: 1686346702223.gif (27.75 KB, 500x500, 1027f80aeabcbb74a2e698be71829e…)

>>334400
BVB? Are those emos still a thing?
>>332883
I love his takes on the royal family and he's still married to his wife, so I really like him as a person, despite being a scrote.
>>333233
I returned my Barcelona ticket for a 2021 tour and never looked bad. I'm disappointed to read your post, nona, I guess he'll never change, he'll keep touring doing shitty performances until he gets bored of it.
>>330035
I'd befriend the two women and avoid all eye contact with the men. Although I like the eye make-up of the guy on the left.

No. 334639

>>334420
Well damn, that was a pretty crap cover. I actually used to like HIM when I was in high school. I eventually learned they weren't an actual goth band but for a rock band, I have no shame saying that I liked their sound growing up. Ville had a nice voice. However here, it did the song no favors and it doesn't help the original is really good.

I think it's hard when it comes to goth song covers because the goth sound is so unique and it can be difficult hearing them turned into generic rock songs as you miss the eccentricities that define the goth songs.

No. 336870

>>286975
>I borrowed more from japanese fashion magazines
Like what?

No. 337052

>>336870
I think she was talking about her make up?
I was wondering if the goth anons here shave their brows kek I only do like half and make them thin for orientation

No. 337053

>>336870
I think she was talking about her make up?
I was wondering if the goth anons here shave their brows kek I only do like half and make them thin for orientation

No. 337963

File: 1687952686490.jpeg (150.46 KB, 828x1190, 5F270E4A-CA36-4D80-808C-6682F6…)

Anons have you heard anything about Robert Smith grooming a girl? I’m trying to find some more information but there is only stuff on tiktok and I don’t have the app or an account

No. 345527

>>337963
Reading the debunking on reddit was such a ride kek

No. 345545

>>345527
Plenty of his songs are about cheating/being in a three way relationship with a younger woman

No. 345547

>>345527
I believe his victims. His shieldmaidens will always aggressively defend him, it’s actually sickeningly pathetic how many women come out and defend pieces of shit like Smith and Depp

No. 345550

>>345547
You believe a fake tiktok made by a zoomer

No. 345553

>>345550
Milka is a real person and she has plenty of evidence they slept with each other

No. 345554

>>345553
While she was underage no less

No. 345555

>>345545
>>345547
Are you suggesting that claims made above are true? This case turned out to be an unhinged woman who claimed some of the band's hits were about her. Have there ever been other accusations we don't know of? I am not defending any scrote.

No. 345558

>>345555
Right so that’s why she has dozens of intimate pictures with him in the 80s when she’s underage and he’s almost 30

No. 345563

>>345558
Ayrt and I've spent some more time on that reddit thread. I have seen some pictures of her hugging him. What do you mean by intimate? I have to dive deeper on this subject when I am well rested.

No. 345598

>>345563
I hate how scrotes write man

No. 345610

>>345598
I'm not a scrote, I am ESL and was in the middle of a comedown. I never use reddit and lurking through almost 700 posts while being tired as hell doesn't particularly inspire my writing. Are you the anon who posted the screenshot of the insta story itt? Do you have any other sources of info besides the online article and the reddit thread? I don't have tiktok either (nor twitter) but I suppose there must be some discussion going on on insta, maybe a hashtag. That's the only place I can check for myself.

No. 345623

Local "goth" scene is 100-150 of the cringiest humans that have ever drawn air, anyone under 30 is into tacky ass killstar moon chokers and anyone over 30 is a predator or a burnout junkie. There's also a lot of mixup with the punk/metal/general alt scene because there's simply not enough people.
I go to shows alone because people into goth music are also into generally tacky metal and crappy local punk bands and "emo rap" and god knows what else. I'm not being elitist but if a person enjoys ex. Lebanon Hanover I have a hard time conceptualizing how they can also enjoy say, Amon Amarth. Very different crowds and aesthetics. People here are just generically alternative with no defined taste.

No. 345639

I would kill for a goth/industrial/techno club in my province. I miss dancing so much.
>>345623
I get completely what you mean. I don't have a local scene either, the last real goths in my city are in their late thirties or early forties and that generation in my area is full of deadbeat junkies. We had a lot of gen Y emos and weebs that have now gone 180, and the gen Z and younger are wannabe e-shits that don't create their own scene because they don't socialise outside. Goth has never been actually popular since the late 90s early 00s here and any so-called revival it's had was nothing but another nail on the coffin.

No. 345717

>>345623
sorry to hear your scene is fully of creeps and immaturity. I understand that frustration. When it comes to music, variety is the spice of life. I was supposed to see the March Violets but our tickets got refunded due to them not being able to get a visa. That would never stop me from going to a Chemical Brothers show. It sounds like you are limiting your ability to enjoy others company do to a something internal you may not fully understand. Probably a jackass that rubbed you the wrong way with parallel taste to these people. Some people Just have broad taste; sometimes, those taste deepen appreciation. Do you think it odd whe the bands you listen to enjoy other genres? Would you want them to limit personal growth and skill building if it came from them exoperiencing music outside of the wider goth family?

No. 345782

>>345717
I've found that having broad taste is not the same as enjoying entry level everything. I don't only listen to goth adjacent music myself.
The people I'm talking about have a very surface taste in everything, like 3-5 bands from every "dark" genre, usually the most well known stuff and will wear tradgoth makeup with a Pantera shirt and a shein corset and post a Spotify topster with the Molchat Doma song that went viral on tiktok. These people are not 15, they are well into their twenties and compose most of the younger scene here. They also tend to be poly or kinky or genderspecials or all three. I am not the most socially skilled myself but I don't want to be any of these people's cool goth friend to do edgy wood and cemetery photoshoots with.

No. 345784

>>345782
They also are weirdly into black metal stuff despite claiming to be goth, like, Mayhem/Burzum lore and unironically thirsting over young Varg and Dead and believing Lords of Chaos was a documentary. This is definitely algorithm induced brain rot because if tiktok flags you as "alt" you will start getting content like that (and also true crime for some reason).

No. 345803

>>345623
Lmao one can't enjoy goth music if one also enjoys multiple other genres? I love lebanon hanover, I also love slipknot, wagner, lana del rey and eminem. Wackest take ever.

No. 345819

>>345782
>>345784
I get what you mean with the black metal stuff being the new entry level alt thing for tiktok kids besides Deftones but you sound annoying and elitist while being kind of clueless yourself. Pantera is groove metal and not basic like it was in the 90s. Ever think that person just really likes Pantera? That band doesn't even fit what goth or baby gen z alt kids enjoy. Pantera would be on their cancel list.

No. 345820

File: 1692650020488.jpeg (471.25 KB, 566x817, j.jpeg)

>>345782
I'm sorry nonna if I am not understanding but it very much so sounds like you aren't juding their character but taste. If they are young they are experiencing the sampler pack of life and if they are older they sound to be acclimating to current situations. You really haven't stated what you dislike about these things or how it has a negative impact on your local community or yourself.I get wanting to hang with people with taste more closely aligned to yours, but having an untrained or unrefined taste in fashion while liking surface level things isn't indicitive of a poor personality or intellectual impairment. Now, if they start taking over your club and playing five finger death punch claiming it's goth, have at them. That would be an actual issue with a music choice and them showing a lack of understanding or maybe being deceptive. Any other time should be fine to listen to the Who or Hu taste varries)>

No. 345825

I've seen people shit on Molchat Doma a couple of times here on LC, but I really like them, I wouldn't call them goth, because they aren't, but I feel they truly revive the post-punk spirit while still being genuine.

No. 347022

>>345623
>I'm not being elitist but if a person enjoys ex. Lebanon Hanover I have a hard time conceptualizing how they can also enjoy say, Amon Amarth.
Eh I dunno anon, I'm someone who likes goth music but also likes non-goth music as well. I can't say I'm huge into Lebanon Hanover but I do love London After Midnight but I can also go to listening to Spice Girls (and yes I know I'm showing my age kek).

That said, I think I kinda get what you mean because something I have notice is someone who calls themselves a "goth" but then mostly only listens to metal and the only goth band they like is The Cure or Sisters of Mercy. They don't actually explore the goth genre of music for all it has to offer and only go with like 2 maybe 3 or 4 bands and call it there while in the same breath, they will go above and beyond looking for more metal bands. Imo, these people aren't goths.

No. 347023

>>345825
Molchat Doma are pretty good but they aren't goth, just post-punk. It's like Joy Division, many people call them goth but in actuality they weren't goth at all, they were always post-punk. Influential to the goth sound sure but that's the extent. This happened again with She Wants Revenge in the 2000s and it seems like Molchat Doma are the 2010s version of this misunderstanding.

No. 347204

I know they aren't technically goth but I saw She Wants Revenge last night and they were so good. I didn't expect such an energetic performance tbh.

No. 347223

who here like danse society

No. 347229


No. 347366

>>347223
>>347229
Me as well. I'm actually shocked that they hardly ever got brought up much at all.

No. 347367

File: 1693808352593.jpg (158.05 KB, 1200x1200, Wednesday Addams.jpg)

I haven't watched the Wednesday show yet because honestly it just doesn't look that interesting to me even though I do like the Addams Family. However one thing that has annoyed the fuck outta me ever since the show came out is all these TikTok girls thinking they are now goth because they liked the show and want to be like Wednesday. Never mind the fact that the character is not a goth at all and they even missed the opportunity to have her dance to a goth song because newsflash TikTok Goffs, The Cramps are not a goth band and the song she danced to is not a goth song neither, it's just annoying.

I mean tbf, the character of Wednesday has been the poster girl for wannabe edgy girls who think they're goth for being mooody but the show just ramped it up to like an 11.

Anyway just a small rant. I'm sure the show was fine but it's just a case of annoying fans and the shallowness some of them can have.

No. 347957

>>347367
The show was subpar, didn't feel like Addams Family to me, also agree the posturing online and "goth" dressup + killstar capitalising on it quite late in the game making the ugliest drop since the rainbow season

No. 348557

>>347367
They should have had a sisters of mercy song AT LEAST. Body Electric is very dancey and it’s no less likely to be played at a school dance than the cramps.

No. 348561

>>347367
It was a cute show with an interesting whodunit side-plot. I don't think the show itself was meant to be goth, it was just Tim Burton being Tim Burton and he's known for his creepy-kooky aesthetic. Tiktok kids are young and retarded, that's all there is to it. I did the same when I was 12 and thought Corpse Bride/Nightmare Before Christmas was super gothic.

No. 348567

>>347367
I enjoyed the show because I went into it without any expectations and knowing that it will never be like the original Addams Family. It's not goth, it's depressed/deep teenage girl from a rich family that isn't just like the other girls. Honestly, there is nothing I can add to what nona >>348561 wrote, it's Tim Burton being Tim Burton and it's young children like we ourselves once were thinking that one single movie is the essence of goth.

No. 349114

File: 1695033386682.jpg (53.53 KB, 759x347, deleted.jpg)

The OP of Robert Smith Allegations thread on reddit has been deleted, comments are locked as well. Any thoughts?

No. 349877

>>347957
AYRT. Yeah I heard that Wednesday wasn't all that great unless you're one of "those" kinda people. I heard that it was just another Riverdale and when I heard that, that is what turned me off from wanting to watch it since I never could get into Riverdale and other darker edgier teen girl shows like Chilling Adventures of Sabrina. I'm still willing to give the show at least a try, like maybe 2 episodes but nonetheless, I just don't like the trend it started lol. And yeah I saw the Killstar dress, absolutely bleh.

>>348557
Exactly! I would've even been fine with something much more basic level like Bauhaus' "Bela Lugosi's Dead" or the Cure's "A Forest", or Christian Death's "Spiritual Cramp", just you know just something that was an actual Goth song.

>>348561
Don't get me wrong, I know that the show wasn't trying to be goth (and it isn't). Tim Burton himself isn't a goth and he had said as much, his style can just be gothic at times but he has no interest in the goth subculture. MY ire isn't directed at Tim Burton or the show itself, my annoyance is more directed at the trenders who are thinking they are oh so goth because they think Wednesday is a "mood" and want to be like her…

No. 355890

File: 1698676095253.gif (3.16 MB, 640x360, the-crow-the-crow-movie.gif)

Are you celebrating Devil's Night, anons? I am watching The Crow on vhs

No. 355894

>>355890
halloween is a discusting american celebration that has warped a europen holiday, USA truley are mutts and must be exterminated for the greater good of man kind.(utter retardation)

No. 356007

>>349114
Everyone was defending him in that thread. I have no idea why Robert Smith got pardoned, he always seemed very manipulative to me and the rumors he’s a cheater have been going for decades

No. 356053

>>356007
What are the allegations?

No. 356122

Man, bit of a blogpost but I'm still a little butthurt over Keith Levene's death almost a year later. The guy obviously had it coming struggling with heroin addiction for decades but man, he basically pioneered the post-punk guitar sound which has seeped into so many other genres and you can still hear his influence when you turn on your local alt rock radio station etc. It keeps reminding me of him, and it's frustrating that someone so innovative and talented fell victim to a life of drugs and mental illness and never seeing their full potential because of it.

No. 356149

Nonas, I have a question.
Why do some people lump The Smiths with the goth music scene?
I know that some of their lyrics range from snarky and cynical to depressing and nihilistic, but aren't they classified as jangle pop rather than goth?
Is it just bc they belong to the post-punk genre, or there's something I'm missing here? I see the same happening with The Clash and Talking Heads…

No. 356189

>>356149
Because they're retarded.

No. 356190

>>356149
I don't think most people would call the Smiths "goth", but there are definitely elements of their sound that might appeal to goths, since they both spring out of post-punk as you said, and there's obviously the focus on drama, pomp and morbidity. Like this song feels like it was written about goths though it's obviously a peppy jangle pop song

No. 356203

>>356149
Goths liked the smiths at one point, but plenty of them also shifted gears and began referring to Morrissey as a nonce and an asshole (which he is.) For some reason the title sticks. In fairness being overtly pretentious about music is something you grow out of as an adult and it was like the early version of random artists with vague degrees of separation were thrown together in a Spotify recommend. A lot of it had to do with the weird fake pr friendship between Robert and Morrissey.

No. 356210

>>356189
I mean, a lot of times I noticed this happening in places where is full of teenagers, so yeah you're right.

>>356203
But I thought that even people who are new to this scene (like me) would be able to discern the bands from each other. Or is it a case of dumb kids just fitting everything in a single box?
Also, Robert and Morrissey slap fight was fake pr? I thought it was real 'cause, especially bc the way it was framed, ofc Morrissey would talk shit since he can't shut his mouth once.

No. 356354

>>356122
It's sad when you think about it because a lot of these musicians who were innovative and creative during this time did suffer from drugs and/or heavy bouts of depression. Rozz Williams and Ian Curtis, such a shame.

No. 356356

>>356149
Because the people are simply uneducated and don't seem to truly know the goth sound because if they did, they would stop fucking calling The Smiths a goth band. It's the same people who call other bands like New Order, Echo and the Bunnymen, and Depeche Mode as "goth" music as well. My guess is they just click some self-proclaimed "goth" playlist on Spotify or something and they see these post-punk and synthpop bands on there and think that the music is goth because the playlist says so kek. I mean I get why it happens with Joy Division even though they too are not goth rock but their style of post-punk was a big influence in developing the goth style so when they get roped in, I believe there is an understanding that we know they aren't actually goth but acknowledge they were a big influence for the sound.

I say this as someone who likes the Smiths mind you but I roll my eyes every time I see them featured in a "goth" playlist and even more retarded when memes say that the goth scene doesn't accept Morrissey when his band was never goth in the first place.

>>356210
>Or is it a case of dumb kids just fitting everything in a single box?
It's dumb kids fitting everything 80s into goth. I've even some of these ignoramuses call a band like Duran Duran "goth"

No. 356537

>>356356
>It's dumb kids fitting everything 80s into goth. I've even some of these ignoramuses call a band like Duran Duran "goth"

Well, that's a shame. As I read the whole thread a second time, it's kinda sad learning that most kids aren't invested in researching more about goth music, or rather, any music genre really.
It always is something superficial and since there's no dedication and investment, some scenes start to disappear. I don't know a single person in my town that knows what old school goth is, and most of kids that say they're goth, their style is closer to e-girls and e-boys, and they don't even know the most basic-entry bands.

Now, this one is for all the fashion nonas. I'd like to know a thing - how can you do the classic spiky hair? I tried doing it once but it didn't work well bc may hair is wavy and greasy af and so it gets lumpy and gross.
(I know this is a bit hypocritical and that I just talked shit about kids just focusing on what to wear rather than the music, but give me a break, I'm trying to actually look legit rather than a poser)

No. 357016

What are goth bands you recommend for people interested in listening to it and seeing if they like it. I saw the video of the singer Nina posted in here earlier and judging by that it sounds like disco music which I love but that is just one song

No. 357019

>>357016
samfag
My bad I meant Gitane Demone. I'm at the start of the thread

No. 357023

>>357016
the original goths were listening to post-punk like siouxsie and the banshees, bauhaus, and i guess darkwave when that eventually established itself from post-punk.

No. 357282

>>357023
>And I guess darkwave when that eventually established itself from post-punk.
And to bounce off this comment, here's one of the original darkwave bands that goths were into at the time.

No. 357410

>>357016
The Sisters of Mercy, Bauhaus, and if you want a newer Band I'd say She Past Away

No. 357559

>>357016
TRST, Soft Kill, Pallbearer, and Cold Cave are some more recent goth bands I love. It honestly really depends on the person of what's considered "goth music". You can go to live shows and see a mixture of people who don't try to commit to the fashion style.

No. 361482

Killing Joke guitarist Geordie Walker just passed away.

The next couple decades of all the OG punk and related genre artists dying off are gonna be rough. The only acceptable boomers.

No. 364449

I actually can't wait for goth to fade into real obscurity and irrelevancy.(baiting)

No. 364491

>>364449
One can dream.

No. 369160

Hey anons, so I'm In a bit of a pickle with my relation to goth. My sister has been asking me recommendations for goth music and I've been pretty reluctant in helping her. For context we are both in our very early 30s and I have been into goth since I was 18 while my sister never cared for it, she'd even make fun of me for my personal goth look up until our early 20s when she finally stopped giving me backhanded comments.

Anyway she started asking me about the music last year and I kept shrugging it off. The main reason why I'm hesitant in giving her band recs is because I don't feel like she is truly interested and the reason why I think this is because ever since she started her own twitch gaming stream, she had created this alt looking persona thet is heavily a mix of e-girl/e-thot. Wears very overly sexualized clothing while trying to do darker makeup. And she posts these sexually suggestive pics on her Instagram while tagging herself as "goth" and "goththot"

I know that she's addicted to Tiktok and I feel like this is the reason why she started taking an interest into goth as a way to get more popularity/views since "goth" is trendy on that platform.

But anyway, I've just been pretty reluctant because of the way she presents herself with this super thotty aesthetic thst has played a part in this "big tiddy goth gf" meme and I just feel like she would just be trying to use the scene for shallow popularity and i really care about goth and am tired of this gross sexualization thar we goth girls get. And like I mentioned, she never once had interest in goth and would remark on how ugly the style was (the trad style specifically) when we were younger though i know people's opinions can change but that's beside the point.

I guess I'm just wondering if I'm being unfair in not helping. I made a mental note to myself that if she can find some goth music on her own and stick with it, I'd know if she's truly invested or if it's just for the trend and only then would I decide if I will help her or not because I'd rather not try to help someone who's interest is solely in just getting male attention which she admittedly has usually been like. She used to be scenekid back in the day. Huge jeffree Starr fan lol.

No. 370350

>>369160
If it were me I wouldn't give her music recs of anything I really like. If she wears you down you could give her some weirder, unpalatable shit or new wave. I don't think you're being unfair, I can't stand these ethots who use the subculture to get attention and pander to men. It's weird behavior from a 30+ year old, I can't how she would be successful compared to younger "goth gfs" online. I don't mean to be hateful and ageist saying that, but most men seem to prefer younger girls. Best of luck nona

No. 370810

File: 1704308588299.jpg (33.21 KB, 775x519, Tumblr_l_1065049449936681.jpg)

baby bat here, have always listened to new/dark/cold wave music (and some basic punk, like pixies/DK as a kid) and have really been into siouxsie, sisters of mercy, ghosting, KMFDM, skinny puppy and other goth/indus bands for the last couple years. i recently started dating a goth girl and she's opened my eyes to the whole culture especially with us going to goth clubs. it's been a lot of fun but you don't really make new friends at those places.

the scene nowadays makes me sad though. im a butch lesbian who got raised in catholic school, up until i literally got kicked out for being too mentally ill (depressed, anxiety ridden, gay). ive always felt a pressure to blend in with alt music subcultures and wear edgy clothes and shit but every alt friend ive made at uni this year buys all their shit off fast fashion sites and mixes up emo music with goth and punk. it's difficult to find ppl my age who aren't kweer or edgy for the sake of looks. i admit ive been guilty of this too but when i was like… 14, 15. now we're 19-21 and it's just drab. nobody ive met wants to mod clothes with me or do makeup together, they just want to go out shopping at cheap "alt" stores. ive even been told it's stupid for me to get into goth fashion if im masculine, or that i look weird bevause of it. wow it's almost like that's the entire point of me dressing like this.

my girlfriend is the only other alt weirdo i know. i really want to get more into goth fashion and form a community but i don't know how. keep going to clubs? keep experimenting with clothing and hope someone notices me? i want to find other freaks/outcasts but it's genuinely so hard with social media identity-crafting and fast fashion everywhere. i feel super alone. i guess i just wanna know if there's any other gnc/gay women into goth music/fashion that have similar experiences to me.

No. 371324

>>>/snow/1951283

And let me guess grufti is according to you a different subculture than goth too because "hey, look! a different word"? Not in my opinion. My country was using term "coldwaver" for a goth. It was still the same as goth, still the same as grufti.

Do you know what is the difference between
deathrock, no wave and darkwave or coldwave? Geographical place of origin of term. Just like between goth and grufti or coldwaver. Nothing more. They are not subgenres, they are mostly results of isolation of scenes that developed own vocabulary including different terms for same shit, sometimes of bands or music critics that developed own names too before any particular term won over other in local scene. Just check interviews with oldest bands who actually remember times when these terms originated you will see confirmation of what I just wrote.

Pretending that every new invented local name constitutes separate subgenre we see in some parts of the internet is post year 2000 LARP that originated in so called "deathrock revival circles" in the US. A movement that wanted to be a group of very special snowflakes that started pretending (a la Eldritch) that "they are not goths, they are deathrockers". OK, there was also similar trend in Germany in the '90s when they were inventing new terms to classify their "uh so obscure unique bands" to look cool in black and white xerox zines that only few dozens of their friends have ever read.

Neue Deutsche Todeskunst was one of most "so unique and necro" names for bunch of bands that didn't even had consistent sounding and which you will not be able to classify as anything other than your usual goff band if you were not informed what label they use for themselves. All of these buzzwords you pretend are separate subgenres are not even musical analogue of "What type of goth are you" meme as there was no qualities allowing you to separate these bands in different categories in blind trials.

There is no way of defending thesis that you would tell "no wave band" from "coldwave band" apart other than your handwaving.

No. 371759

>>370810
Sorry anon that you're having a hard time but I'm also happy for your that you found an alt weirdo girlfriend. I've been into goth and industrial music since my early teens and I don't have any actual goth friends. My boyfriend is into some of the music, especially post punk and he dresses rather dark and he went to some goth parties with me so I guess he counts lol. Apart from that I do have a rather alt friend group but we are all into different kinds of music (metal, punk, hardcore, 80s synth etc.) with a lot of overlap. I share some single interests with a all them, for instance one is very into obscure and macabre art and antique decor and he likes to decorate his apartment with that, so we like to talk about that stuff, show each other new finds, go to the flea market etc. but overall I'm the only one who's heavily into goth. Since there's no goth scene in my town I'm really happy about these little things. I also grew up in a small village where there were no alternative people at all kek. I used to really wish I had goth friends to go to goth clubs and festivals with all the time but since I got older that urge became less and less.
I don't know if it's a generational problem that you have or if it's the area you live in. I'm a millennial and I never heard such ridiculous things as it being stupid to dress goth because you're masculine. Never let anyone tell you that or let them ruin goth for you. Yeah I would keep going to goth clubs or any alternative music events, eventually you'll find likeminded people. They can't all be that stupid.

No. 372500

>>268690
just be aware her music is not Goth music,
Some of her music is overlaping with goth
>>she mostly does (well did) New Wave music
Yes, she is indeed strongly within New Wave a.k.a. Post Punk movement. Just like all gothic rock bands does fit in that very broad movement. But so does synthpop or electropunk.

If you are into her music try also Lene Lovich and Daniele Dax.

No. 372507

>>286793
>What do nonnies think of no make-up/little make-up and no black hair aesthetic?

Typical goth look since always. Dyed black "on every head" hair is mostly instagram thing and became a thing just with latest X-ers and earliest Millenials during the mid-late 90s. I think black hair been mostly German obsession and it became a widespread fashion mostly due to WGT. Heavy makeup is/was mostly events thing than everyday.You can easily find hundreds of photos with natural hair goths from late 70's and from the '80s. Including significant amounts of natural and bleached blondes. Also various unnatural color dye were present. I'm not denying siginificant presence of black dyed hair in early days I'm just pointing out it was of smaller magnitude than what could have been seen for example during the '00s to mid '10s. Goth = absolutely everything black is a trend that appeared just well into the '90s. It was also a time frame when jewellery made of non silver colored metals disappeared.

No. 372508

>>296194
What has been done for decades since earliest days

No. 372618

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>>318851
It look tacky when executed by wearing synthetic crap that is predominant fabric of modern female fashion. Females change wardrobe pieces often so they often accept crappy synthetic fabrics because it makes pieces cheaper and they are going to part with that clothing pieces pretty fast anyways.

Males don't accept crappy clothing fabrics because they are wearing their wardrobe pieces till they start falling apart on them.

Female romantic style looks OK when executed with neovictorian pieces from the times like before mid 90s. Neovictorian was a pretty (semi)mainstream trend since like late '50s until early '90s (with peak of popularity around mid to late '70s) so it was pretty easy to get such pieces both new and 2nd hand or find cuts in popular sewing themed magazines. Most of these pieces were "modernized" victorian without ambitions to look more victorian than victorian era that some producers of modern pieces seem to have an obsession with. And they were made with actual cotton/linen more often than not. Viscose is often acceptable looking fabric for that style. Polyester or other synthetic fabrics rarely are.

No. 372619

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>>372618
Speaking of modernization, Strawberry Switchblade duo that is co-responsible for how modern lolita fashion looks (they had 5 min of mainstream popularity in Japan but made enough of inpact on Japanese alternative fashion) had a pretty interesting approach to neovictorian. Too bad their modern fashion relatives from Asia are now suffering a real eye-sore period.

No. 372620

>>372618
>>372619
BTW what was the most common "romantic goth look" was for a long time thrifted evening gowns from the '70s or wedding dress pieces DIYed by cooking them in black dye. There was truckload of them still around in 2nd hand clothing shops up until mid 90s. If you need a visual aid to get how it looked - see character of Angela from The Night of The Demons horror comedy flick. Goths of 80s strongly preferred laced pieces for romantic look. While opaque pieces were more of Blitz Kids thing [a fashion/music movement centered around Blitz club that later partially merged into goth]

No. 372621

>>372620
>>372619
>>372618
You can also look into 1980s Patricia Morrison that was sporting a lot of Neovictorian pieces at that era.

In this video all three persons - Patrician, Andrew and interviewer are wearing clothing pieces that fit the generic romantic fashion movement (which was a trend that was present in fashion of various 80s subcultures not only Goths or Blitz Kids) without going too "look I'm so XIX century" vibe that often ruins the final result.

No. 372623

File: 1704963793756.jpg (176.27 KB, 1920x1081, Rocky-Horror-Picture-resized-2…)

>>296193
>There's a big crossover with LGBT people and dressing alternatively; the punk "aesthetic" is very popular with the nonbinary and trans crowd. I'm not really sure why that is.

Punk scene been a long time pretty safe space for being openly LGBT. Leather fashion that influenced punk fashion (and metal fashion trough Judas Priest vocalist[a gay male]) had strong lesbian and gay people presence. Remember that punk fashion emerged as a result of fans of music experimenting with look. It was collaborative effort and it has lended from various sources like BDSM or biker fashion. While it resulted in a certain looks scene itself does not hold monopoly on that look. Ever seen Rocky Horror Picture Show? It was influenced by various undeground fashion trends including very early punk and in own turn it influenced punk fashion too. But also "LGBT fashion" circles. Also don't forget about Drag Queen makeup influences on punk makeup. Take a look at the 1960s(sixties) drag makeup that is also area where you could find for example gay male performers.

>>296205
>I'm gonna e honest, it's fucking retarded is what it is. Goth never had anything to do with "qUeErNeSs". Call me a terf, not afraid to speak the truth, this is all just tardism and nevermind that most of these people don't even listen to the music anyway.

Depends what do you mean – Goth related clubs in London had for decades a lot of "gender nonconformism" of various degrees. At least Batcave and Slimelight. You can see that in video materials from the era and all over Propaganda Magazine pages. It might not have been the thing in every country but at least in some western scenes there was significant attendance of not your typical straight stereotypically male or female public. Also see paragraph I wrote in response to poster you replied to.

No. 372626


No. 372627


No. 372628


No. 372668

>>337052
>I was wondering if the goth anons here shave their brows kek I only do like half and make them thin for orientation

Some shave them totally, some keep them naturally bushy, some pluck them, some style them, some shave side halves leaving parts toward the center and draw outer parts at unnatural angles. There is no rules here, just personal preference.

>>271514
Early gothic lolita was inspired by western goth - Mana was clearly dressing influenced by Goth version of neoromantic and by synth pop band Strawberry Switchblade (dressing in outfits strongly within neovictorian meets 80s laces and pola dots vein) with actual goth/industrial scene member Rose McDowall. You can also hear gothic rock influences in first Malice Mizer demo. Visually Malice Mizer of earliest days looks very similar to band Garden of Delight. There is some resemblance in sound too. Of course Japan had own goth scene too back in the '80s already.

No. 372669

>>372668
One of Garden of Delight songs videoclip for comparison. They have a lot in common visually and in sound.

No. 372672

>>372669
another one

No. 373231

>>370350
AYRT, sorry for the late response but yeah like I said, it would be one thing if she truly was interested in the scene but all the evidence I've seen of her just trying to use the scene for shallow reasoning what with trying to get attention from men to pump up her Instagram and Gaming channel, I do not want to be a part of that. I told myself that if she really is serious, she'll look it up on her own because it's so easy to find goth music these days compared to back then.

>It's weird behavior from a 30+ year old, I can't how she would be successful compared to younger "goth gfs" online. I don't mean to be hateful and ageist saying that, but most men seem to prefer younger girls.

That's totally valid anon because I was perplexed myself. The funny thing is she used to be a scene queen back in the 2000s and she would get a lot of male attention and she was always obsessed with how she looked. My suspicion is that she wants that attention again and saw that "#gothgirl" is the trend now and wants in on that.

No. 373232

>>372500
>Danielle Dax
>Lene Lovich
Geez anon, really taking me back lol They're not goth either but they are fun new wave music for sure. Also throw in some Missing Persons.

No. 373235

>>372621
I would say another surprisingly decent example of a "Romantic goth" look was Christina Ricci's goth parody character in SNL. Albeit it's all white but she looks like she could be singing in a band like Switchblade Symphony circa Serepentine Gallery era lol.

No. 373236

>>372623
>Goth related clubs in London had for decades a lot of "gender nonconformism" of various degrees.
Oh I know that gender nonconformity has always been a part of goth but the thing is that most of these people, at least back then save for the occasional pretentious narcissist, they didn't deny their sex or claim that they were the opposite sex. Like you didn't see Rozz Williams claiming he was a woman just because he liked to wear dresses and had much longer hair.

No. 373238

>>372668
>Malice Mizer
Yeah Malice Mizer definitely did flirt around with the goth sound. They didn't do it enough to be considered a "goth" band but the few times they played around with it, it was pretty spot on (and beautiful lol), I wish would've done it more.

No. 373369

>>373238
>They didn't do it enough to be considered a "goth" band

If we are speaking about demo material - depends what is one's opinion on whole plethora of neoclassical stuff from the '90s. I would not have a problem in classifying demo stuff as goth. If we are speaking about all their albums - they indeed moved toward different general sound pretty early in their rather short band's lifespan.

>>373235
Switchblade Symphony on their Serpentine Gallery was an interesting band as they incorporated pretty neatly a lot of elements from other genres while preserving gothic rock core. Also Faith And the Muse band also from the USA had it's moments. I mean far more than industrial influences here. In case of Switchblade Symphony - triphop and neoclassical stuff in case of Faith and The Muse with numerous folk influences [BTW eastern European and Balkan goth rock scenes are also notorious for introducing local folk elements]. Most of nowadays musical goth scene is far more conservative soundwise. As for Switchblade Symphony other album Bread And Jam For Frances - that want went pretty far from OG gothic rock but has traces of it's DNA kinda like Siouxie Sioux project Creatures. I kinda see a lot in common between Creatures and that album. Maybe not directly but some general concept and direction of experimentation. Also Chiasm of "Isolated" track fame [it made it to soundtrack of Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines ] was balancing between synth heavy goth and industrial stuff has pretty close "vibe" too. Ha, I see there been a new stuff released in 2019 from Chiasm. https://chiasm.bandcamp.com/album/reset

No. 373374

>>373232

>Also throw in some Missing Persons.

I do like them, tho they are far less experimental in my opinion but I can't deny they have some originality too

No. 373377

I remember in other board there were some controversies over are The Cramps goth. Well, I can hear some gothic rock characteristics over many songs. Is this enough to classify the as goth? Dunno, I personally don't care.

Undeniable gothic rock blended with rich sauce of rockabilly + surf is for example Polish band Miguel and The Living Dead. Some potential issues with track structure and Thick Polish accent of vocalist aside pretty interesting approach. You can hear guitars playing riffs in all three styles blended together.

No. 374538

>>373369
>If we are speaking about demo material - depends what is one's opinion on whole plethora of neoclassical stuff from the '90s. I would not have a problem in classifying demo stuff as goth. If we are speaking about all their albums - they indeed moved toward different general sound pretty early in their rather short band's lifespan.
Personally I don't consider Neoclassical music as "goth music", just another branch of classical music that happens to be popular with some goths (and just darkly-inclined people in general). So as far as Malice Mizer and "goth" goes, I really only refer to the times they did goth rock

>Switchblade Symphony on their Serpentine Gallery was an interesting band as they incorporated pretty neatly a lot of elements from other genres while preserving gothic rock core.

Agreed, that's why Serpentine Gallery was so awesome, it managed to flirt around with other music genres while retaining the core sound which was goth rock. Bread and Jam for Frances definitely went more into the trip hop and alternative side and aside from Tina's singing voice, the album sounds different than Serpentine Gallery, it doesn't really sound "goth".
>Faith And the Muse
I've only listened to a few of their songs but I agree with your assessment because they tend to add in folk elements while still retaining the goth rock foundation.

>Most of nowadays musical goth scene is far more conservative soundwise.

Yeah I see what you mean here, a lot of modern goth music tends to play it straight with the post-punk fused with darkwave and though personally I don't mind because I do like it, it'd be cool to see some slight experimentation (while keeping to the goth rock foundation).

>Chiasm

Holy fuck, I haven't heard that name in a long time lol I remember "Isolated" (heard it on their MySpace page many years ago). As far as that "Disorder" album, I do kinda see what you mean that it had that playful dark "vibe" that Switchblade Symphony had though it doesn't really sound "goth" to me personally, just sounds like EBM with an "exotic" feel to it though I imagine hearing goth guitar strings in it and it would so work but she just doesn't seem all that interested in putting goth into her sound.
Haha this talk about Chiasm made me remember Ayria, another Industrial EBM act from the early 2000s.

No. 374544

>>373377
>The Cramps goth?
Personally all the songs I've heard from them just don't have "goth" elements in them at all. Historically they were the ones who created the psychobilly genre but psychobilly isn't a goth genre, it's just the combination of punk, garage, and rockabilly drenched with a horror theme in visuals. The only reason why people think the Cramps are goth are either the zoomers who thinks this because it was used for Wednesday Addams (who isn't even a goth, sorrynotsorry) and/or people who confuse psychobilly as goth because they're too focused on the darker aesthetic that many of the musicians adorn themselves in. That said, there's no shame in liking the music, I'm quite fond of it myself.

>Miguel and the Living Dead

Oh wow, I remember this band kek. Yeah no, they definitely did add goth elements into their music, not all of their songs but nonetheless, that's how they differ from The Cramps who mostly played it straight with the Rockabilly influence in their music. I agree, they were unique.

No. 374672

>>374544
Cramps have sometimes guitar sounding akin to what is heard in gothic rock albeit very lightly but that could be explained psychodelic rock part of roots of both genres. Some 70s horror movies psychodelic rock tracks.

Speaking of which "Le Frisson Des Vampires" had pretty moody psychodelic soundtrack that can cause confusion in brains that are familiar with goth but not so much with psychodelic as they have elements that were sported in many goth tracks. When I hear them brain is expecting punk riffing to start any moment. But that of course never arrives. It's like never-ending cliffhanger.

Some bands like Sad Lovers and Giants or The Chameleons have a lot of that psychodelic rock heritage in their sound. This Bosnian band in vidrel from times of Yugoslavia has psychodelic rock influence more than evident. It's 1982 so it's pretty early in whole goth, or how it was called in Yugoslavia (and generally in satellite states of Soviet Union and in Soviet Union itself) "cold wave" bussines.

More modern examples of psychodelic rock heavy influenced bands would probably be Second Still. Their track Recover is dipped in psychodely especially part after third minut mark, notice bass line.

>>374538
>Personally I don't consider Neoclassical music as "goth music", just another branch of classical music that happens to be popular with some goths (and just darkly-inclined people in general).

Degree of ""neo-classicism" varied a lot. Mors Syphilitica for example were incorporating neo clssicism and operatic singing with rather strong goth.

Sopor Aethernus on the other hand was heavy on noeclassicism, goth rock background of author is evident but is not the main dominating building element, so here interpretations is this within goth genre may vary.

>Yeah I see what you mean here, a lot of modern goth music tends to play it straight with the post-punk fused with darkwave and though personally I don't mind because I do like it, it'd be cool to see some slight experimentation (while keeping to the goth rock foundation).


Ye, that conservatism in sound was fresh in early-mid '00s after two decades of heavy mixing with other genres but it gets old after a while when you attended some festivals for several years and you are realizing that many bands are sounding very alike each other. I can still have fun dancing to them in clubs but I have a growing hunger for novelty or at least more creativity.

>Ayria

Yes, I remember that act too.

Late '90s and early '00s were times of heavy mixing of industrial influences. In Europe Dark Trance was also invading dance floors at mixed dark dancing events where goth was played together with industrial stuff.

No. 374675

>>374672
BTW just found this band labeled as psychodelic goth. One can say it's also neoclassical influenced.

No. 374680

Going back to crowd that claims that claims that "deathrock was a separate and oh so original movement and totally not the same as gothic rock" - it's funny how they are silent about so called "No Wave" - which was basically what one can name as "The New York Goth", just like Deathrock was "The South California Goth".

Of course South Cal, New York and European scenes of what sane people name as Goth nowadays without attempting to push regional names for goth as different subgenres are undeniably Psychodelic Rock influenced Punks playing dark music. Just because there was some geographical isolation [which is IMHO overhyped factor as even Soviet Union was exposed to these bands relatively quick thanks to smuggling of records] between scenes around the world does not mean they could not organically emerge with pretty much same ideas about sound if they were sharing inspirations - in case of numerous goth scenes around the world - psychodelic rock and punk.

Video with musical act of New York scene that modern "Deathrockers" rarely dare to talk about. Are they scared that existence of "No wavers" collapses their Jenga tower of myth [or rather shall I say bullshit] about "You see America had Deathrock, not Goth". Yes, I can't stand that level of ignorance. They would repeat such absurd claims over and over even after you provide them with counterarguments. Which there is plenty of.

No. 375602

>>337052
I thought she meant clothing and hair styles. I never read fashion magazines and just pulled from myself and media I watched, and was never fond of taking your ideas from them because aren't you just going with a social construct or trend? But I've been thinking recently that I've been missing out on other reasons and could've had chemistry with other ideas.

No. 376729

Great video, very few people have seen it.

No. 382515

At timestamp
?t=219

She mentions how older folks at the Cure concert reacted to seeing them (dressed goth) and used the term "curehead" toward them illustrating the point that "goth" is a term that settled in much later than the 80s. Older folks were just using many terms to name pretty much what is now called goth. So fuck you everyone denying that this subculture originally had many names that were used on pretty much equal level and were not "subgenres" like some individuals are claiming despite crushing amount evidence proving them wrong.

No. 382629

It's kinda funny how problematic are powders they are using. I would say the most classic one you can get white finish with is rice powder. It's pretty cheap, sets foundation well and even lightens it. You can even DIY it from rice flakes using coffee grinder. I see places online where yo can buy literal kilograms of ready rice powder for cosmetic use and it's ridiculous how cheap that stuff is considering end results you can get with it. No silicons or other crap in it.

I'm also skeptic toward use of beauty blenders - I get much better results using kabuki brush and it allows for much thinner layers than blenders - you can apply a pretty thin layer of Kryolan Clown White with it without going full chalk white as end result. Blenders start sucking foundation out of your face with such thin layers as they require to be constantly damp to not start sucking cosmetics into them and there are limits on how damp they can be without dampness starting to create issues during foundation application.

No. 382695

>>382629
Make goth counter cultural again, I can't stand makeup themed videos from so-called yt goths

No. 382751

>>382695
Your point being?

No. 382788

>>382751
Wearing a full face of makeup daily is fucking absurd

No. 382833

File: 1709492542359.jpg (95.62 KB, 564x825, 2d7bc844e0da54c8d651f3db2313d2…)

>>382788
not even into goth but i agree. i was into punk, and it's the same thing there. the "rules" for "being punk" were so absurd, you look like a fool with your carbon-copy jacket you studded and patched up and 100 gallons of hair spray and gel and all that.

No. 382863

>>382788
I don't know anyone who wears it daily. Even IBF admitted to not wearing it daily. Also both of that couple do not wear it daily. Attempts on wearing it daily would destroy skin of most people. During 5 days of festivals (WGT and GPP) in Leipzig it's not unusual to see people going thick makeup only for few first days. Last day or two you see a lot of "potato" no makeup faces.

>>382833
Well, goths are still punks just like any other branch of punk. But let's concentrate on that look aspect you mentioned.

I see the point. Ye, sometimes I'm browsing Instagram I wonder why there are so many profile with people who look alike - i mean almost identical clothing mixed with same hairstyle and makeup cliches. But there are also many people who get creative with look. They are risking and it's also not easy psychologically to create something on your own as not following some "common standard" often provokes in them questioning own authenticity ironically.

What I see in clubs differs from Instagram anyway. Ironically I often do not see many of these Instagram goths in clubs or at gigs. They seem to function in separate world. Dunno what is the real reason. Are they unaware of local scene or is their social anxiety too big or they are busy in life with other stuff. I certainly understand too well that univ/collage education can eat a lot of time and energy.

As for dress code scene in my country does not give too much fuck about the way you dress. No one would throw you out of venue for attending it in pair of shorts and Hawaii shirt. And yes, I have seen people dressed more or less like that example. From what I been reading online not every country has that much laid back scenes and in some cases there were examples of not letting in people because of color of visible shoe sole being white or other piece of clothing not conforming to some dress code of the event.

Scenes differ a lot between countries. Let's compare two of biggest European goth scenes which happen also to neighbor each other. That review is of course highly biased and should not betaken too seriously.

Like in Germany it's notorious to see German grufties standing whole concert like they get a stick freshly installed you know where. Not all are like that (especially when they been around for a while) but they have tendencies to behave in very reserved and phlegmatic manner during gigs.

In neighbor to Germany - Poland you would see much more energy in the crowd and mosh pits are not unusual especially in larger venues. Yes, Poles for real would mosh to Peter Murphy singing slower songs of Bauhaus. They did that back in 2018.

To get a mosh pit in Germany at goth gig usually takes some more energetic foreigners. If there is no pit in Poland seeing like half of the public dancing halfway the set list is a commonplace in that country.

Seeing that much energy in Germany is much more rare view and when happens it kinda look like they participate in some military drill as they have tendency to synchronizing everything from clapping to directions they swing their bodies.

Ordung stronk, I guess.

On the other hand Germans often get much more elaborate at the way they dress. And I don't necessarily mean they dress in a way that requires more money (there is big difference in wages in Poland and Germany) - they have a lot of DIY in wardrobes. Maybe they compensate for much more reserved behavior that way. Dunno.

No. 382984

Some more rare video from Batcave

No. 384127

>>382788
I honestly feel like most actual goths via people in the actual subculture and like goth rock don't wear a full face of makeup on the daily. Me personally, I only ever do a full face once every few weeks otherwise I'm perfect content with wearing some eyeliner and a hint of eyeshadow.

No. 385037

>>374680
There were also terms like "indie" used in this video, also you can frequently encounter "alternative" to describe goth bands from back in the '80s.

There were also "swampies" in Australia.

No. 386132

Speaking of Germany, some of their old TV materials are ebin

No. 386134


No. 386135


No. 386136


No. 386138


No. 386141

at 1:00:30 mark - two grufties

No. 386613

File: 1711055379227.jpeg (360.42 KB, 1004x1333, 48BDA35C-17EA-4A03-AED8-855C37…)

Do you think there’s something to the idea of a goth mentality? Or goth perspective? Goth philosophy? Like being aware and not afraid of death, being open minded to new things, appreciating the darker aspects of life, etc?

No. 386883

>>386613
>Do you think there’s something to the idea of a goth mentality?

No. At lest not any more than heavy metal mentality, jazz mentality, italo disco mentality or stamp collectors mentality. Many goths differ in their goth bands taste. There are bands I love there are bands I see as total trash while other goths love them. Goths differ in fashion sense and taste. Some prefer ghastly ghoulish smudgy makeup and wear distressed unironed clothing others accept only instagram perfect lines and counturing done with help of a ruler and an angle and ridicule anything else. Some are skinwalking some famous goth band members some have totally unique clothing and makeup style you never seen before. Some wear just normie clothing in dark colors without any makeup, some look like plain normies when attending events, some follow totally random fashion styles you don't normally associate with mainstream or goths.

>Or goth perspective?


What perspective? Goth is diverse in sounding due to different influences of different scenes around the world and music interests of band members. They come from broad social backgrounds. They have broad spectrum of education. Some have higher, some ended ended education at middle school. Some are well paid, some are living on welfare for decades.

>Goth philosophy? Like being aware and not afraid of death, being open minded to new things, appreciating the darker aspects of life, etc?


Many goths are afraid of death. Many goths are also narrow minded. There are goths who love visiting torture devices museums and many that would not like being in one at all.

There are goths who are unironically into occult. There are many who see occult as bullshit. There are atheists, there are religious ones.

There are anacaps, there are commies, there are centrists, there are greens, there are christian democrats, there are neo nazis, there are apolitical who don't give a fuck. There are altruists, there are egoists.

There are these who participate in events like gigs and dance nights and these who never been to one and have no desire to even attend them.

There are anorectics, there are morbidly obese, there are body builders and there are ones with below average muscle mass.

There are extroverts, there are many introverts.

Some of goths get rude when drunk, some get even more sad than they are usually. Some don't drink at all.

You could meet goths that you would have a lot in common and could spend hours talking with them and you could meet these you have nothing in common at all, with some you would have no topic for discussion at all and all communication between you that make sense would be exchange of sentences like "cool gig" or "nice makeup" and that would be about all.

No. 386895

>>382695
I'd categorize them as vanity goths lol

No. 387196

File: 1711317267663.jpg (70.24 KB, 720x576, a42e448f3b6682cca305786d698f02…)

>>386613
Honestly no, because you don't have to be a goth to be aware of the reality of death and appreciating the darker things in life. I've met people who love things like darker poetry and gothic literature and horror movies but have absolutely no interest in goth music at all and to me, that is the difference between a goth and someone who is simply darkly-inclined. Dark inclination is kind of a given for us goths since the backdrop for the music is dark imagery and vibe but the music just won't be for everyone.

>>386883
>There are bands I love there are bands I see as total trash while other goths love them.
You've got me curious, which bands do you not like that other goths do tend to like? lol

No. 387307

>>387196
I won't list my "favorites" here but answer in general what are typical "problematic" bands. There are many polarizing bands here and there in Europe - like German Umbra et Imago, German Blutengel, Polish Closterkeller, Belarussian Molchat Doma, Russian Kino, Czech XIII Stoleti, Virgin in Veil from Finland. Out of the USA I would like to point out that post Rozz Christian Death is also controversial.

Going more general on criticism now. There are goths who do not tolerate metal influences at all. Other goths can't stand synth centric bands. Others have issues with bands if they "sound like carbon copy of Sisters of Mercy". Others have issues if band uses drum machine instead of live drummer. Some have issues with dumb lyrics sometimes entering full blown graphomania zone especially if mixed with attitude of being deadly serious "we doin real art bro" style. You know - kitschy but not in ironic way. Imagine a redneck in trucker cap and cargo shorts in restaurant on black tie event who acts like wearing a white tie grade outfit. Yes, there are examples of THIS nonironic kitsch among bands.

No. 387834

>>86959
>MaryGraceFrancone

Is she even still around?

No. 387838

File: 1711576543537.jpg (99.21 KB, 1200x630, Siekiera.jpg)

>>283110
Around 15 years ago there was a lot of confusion what goth is even in English speaking sphere. Industrial and even metal (Type 0 Negative, Nightwish) were often called as goth. Things were even more complicated outside of English speaking countries. I was actually unaware that I was liking goth songs up until my very late teens. They were often played on the radio up until even mid '00s. The fact that no one was using term goth toward them did not help. No one was using that term as these were mostly '80s songs and in this part of world back in the '80s term goth was unknown it was called Cold Wave or New Wave (and that New Wave did not mean stuff like synth pop or happy guitar post punk - New Wave meant here back in the '80s exactly the same that Cold Wave). Fans of cold wave were using term "punk" as self identification. Yes, just punk. That additionally complicated things. Up to this day I sometimes meet these punks who been around gigs and festivals in the '80s who are surprised when term goth is used toward local bands and some who did not had a contact with scene since like middle '80s even when referring to UK bands like Bauhaus, Siouxie and the Banshees etc. It was all Cold Wave to them. It was term they were familiar. Usage of term "goth" came much later where they been busy with other stuff in their life so they never been operating with term "goth". It sometimes creates funny dialogues when two people from different generations are talking about same music but are unaware of that because each operates different definitions of same terms.

No. 387841

continuing >>387838

Lemme play some songs of local tribe back from the days where cold wave movement was rebelling against communist order

No. 387842


No. 387844

>>387842
and another classic

No. 387847

And rare occurrence from these days - actual music video by the band

No. 387849


No. 387850

>>387849
And last one for tonight

No. 387869

>>387842
I forgot about 1MB, thanks for this

No. 387912

This album of Made in Poland band [sometimes called by critics "Polish Joy Division" lol] consists of material from 1985 but it never made trough communist government's censorship so it was published 31 years later in 2016. Songs from this been played at gigs back then tho.

No. 387914

And here some pretty obscure band Garaż w Leeds that had their material reissued quite recently [compared to time when material was recorded, lol] in 2019

No. 387960

>>387838
>>387841
>>387842
>>387844
>>387847
>>387849
>>387850
>>387912
>>387914
Ily fellow Polish nonnie. I think it's cool that the Polish "goth"/cold wave scene was so political. It adds more weight to the subculture although as you said it was lumped with punk. I'm a zoomer and it's kind of sad that other "goths" my age usually don't know any of this music. I've had some acquaintances insist how it's important to listen to the so called goth music but it didn't go beyond them listening to The Cure or The Sisters of Mercy or sometimes o zgrozo Closterkeller if they cared about Polish music. It's sad that cold wave is lost on them because it just adds to the homogenization of culture. Surely it's much more genuine and interesting when each country's scene is unique. Nothing wrong with being interested in western, English speaking bands only but it does come across like there's twitter/tiktok influence at play. Perhaps it's just the crowd I've ran into.
You can probably tell that I'm kinda bitter about this, so I'll stop.

No. 387977

>>387960
Goth was as you phrased that "lumped" with punk as goth is a form of punk just like hard core is punk, crust is punk and other mutations are punk. These labels originated later than music trends itself. Some trends were uncoordinated and emerged in many places around the world because well some ideas would be realized by different people around same time because they are pretty obvious development. Adding a lot of reverb on vocal is not a rocket science and you don't have to listen to any Joy Division or Bauhaus album to do so. A lot of spookiness of goth rock comes from psychodelic rock that was a strong trend in rock music of the late 60's and in the 70's. Sometimes influence was direct, sometimes it was trough krautrock. You can also hear influences of reggae in a lot of Bauhaus stuff including "Bella Lugosi is dead". Other widespread technique was umm "adding noise" chaotic patterns, notes, random noises on frets. New York "no wave" scene was notorious for such stuff. South Californian "death rock" was also doing similar stuff but in own way. I'm using apostrophes around "no wave" and "death rock" because I want to highlight that these names were not defining the sound in any way not limiting creations of bands, they were not names of genres but way for people participating in the scene to say "you know, our music we are doing around here and we think we have some amount of characteristics in common but we are not aiming for uniform sounding so we may differ in way we play, we also tend to use that name for foreign bands who approach music in similar manner". Just compare Christian Death and 45 Grave. They are not that similar in approach to music. You can for example hear surf rock elements in 45 Grave, Hammond organ, church organ parts etc. Both from o called "SoCal Death Rock". Same time people in California was referring to Bauhaus as Death Rock too.

British Specimen was full of glam rock sound. Which was not that widespread among other bands. Alien Sex Fiend while staying within what we see today as gothic rock had a lot of elements typical for early industrial.

Most of early goth bands were founded by people who were into 70s punk or already had story of participating in that scene. It means they been attending gigs of other bands and other bands knew them and their music. Punk crowd was not that big in size in early days and people were notorious for sticking together as they were standing out of generic crowd like a sore thumb. Amount of venues where band could play was very limited. That was also a thing in Poland in the '80s. Every band was affected by music members liked and what other local scene bands been playing and general history of rock music in given place of the world.

What we today see as "separation" from punk is mostly a result of the fact that as fan base grew and new bands came to the scene they tended to hang around fans of similar sounds and similar bands. Not because someone decided "we are separate genre now, let's stop talking to others".

A lot of confusion and attempts on "creation of separate goff genres" is a result of not understanding the history of goth music and rock music in general especially what was happening in rock prior to formation of goth rock scenes. You for real can hear a lot of stuff we associate with "goth rock sounding" in many different rock stuff from the 1970s.

No. 387980

>>387977
>You for real can hear a lot of stuff we associate with "goth rock sounding" in many different rock stuff from the 1970s.

To illustrate I'm posting a random krautrock stuff from 1975 I just found on youtube and heard for 1st time in my life. Stuff not that very far in sound from what 2 years later could be heard in Joy Division and later bands. Almost uncanny valley as some elements are familiar yet some are missing.

No. 387981

Also I was listening to this Velvet Undeground track from 1969 and suddenly as the drumming part repeated again to my mind came words "Siouxie and the Banshees". Well, indeed their drumming has a common ground. Spellbound track of Siouxie and the Banshees is kinda Velvet Undergroundesque.

No. 388074

>>387960
>Perhaps it's just the crowd I've ran into.

80's Polish bands are part of set lists played at events in Poland. Not huge and it's mostly few tracks like "Ja stoję, ja tańczę, ja walczę" and "Misiowie puszyści"['szewc zabija szewca'], "Adelajda Formalina" are among most often played. If you are ever going to attend events in Wrocław or Warsaw you are likely to hear them. Polish DJs also play whole sets of Polish bands including much more than usually Polish '80s during Gothic Pogo Festival in Leipzig.

No. 388078

>>387960
>or sometimes o zgrozo Closterkeller

Do they know Pornografia? Much more listenable/bearable compared to Closterkeller, even considering that Pornografia's lyrics is mixed bag and some of them make me want to turn music off like for example "Elektrownie atomowe".

No. 388530

>>387960
> I've had some acquaintances insist how it's important to listen to the so called goth music but it didn't go beyond them listening to The Cure or The Sisters of Mercy or sometimes o zgrozo Closterkeller if they cared about Polish music.
Yeah I've seen this as well with zoomers getting into goth (I'm in my 30s for context) and whenever I'm browsing images of goths and come across zoomers, they always play the usual Cure, Siouxsie, Sisters of Mercy, or Bauhaus (and annoyingly Depeche Mode that they call goth music. No hate to Depeche Mode, they're awesome but they aren't goth) but I hardly ever see these young'ins go beyond the basic 4 and I hate to be "that" person but it makes me wonder if they are really into goth or just into it to make TikToks.

No. 388532


No. 388624

>>388530

>but I hardly ever see these young'ins go beyond the basic 4 and I hate to be "that" person but it makes me wonder if they are really into goth or just into it to make TikToks.


There is one simple test for that - do you ever see them at gigs or at club nights.

On side note have you seen cases of zoomers going to events then to nearest mirror, taking selfies and leaving venue?

No. 389084

>>388624
Admittedly I don't go to clubs much anymore because of time and age but when I used to go, I didn't really see many of them at the club if I had to be honest. I don't know if it's changed now but I have a suspicion that it really hasn't all that much.

No. 389276

>>389084
>and age
I didn't know we have nonnas in their 80's here

No. 389808

>>389084
In Warsaw there is a lot of zoomers now both at dance night and at gigs. And they are actually making an effort to actually dress like they are attending goth events. A stuff that is pretty much a novelty in Polish scene as only small minority was actually making an effort. And no, I don't count wearing costumes consisting of random pieces of "alt brands" as making an effort.

No. 389946

>>389276
Kek Okay fair point, I'm not that old but I'm not in my 20s anymore and I don't stay up as late as I used to is all. I guess switch "age" for "energy" kek.

>>389808
That's awesome to hear anon. Nice to see that there are more zoomers actually participating and not being some trend hopper trying to become "goth influencer"

No. 391621

You see
>Going To A Goth Festival Q&A
You think
>Gothic Pogo Festival? Return to the Batcave?
Meanwhile in video
>Mera Luna
Oh…

No. 391761

>>391621
It's a joke to consider Mera Luna a "goth festival" since most of the bands that get featured/invited aren't goth. It still looks like a fun festival but to call it goth? Nah.

No. 391848

>>391761
Yes, Mera Luna is just generic dark rock&metal festival. It also looks very differently than actual Goth festivals. And yes, there are a few of them in Europe but majority of so called goff influencers are for some reason avoiding them. Kinda strange as they are often much cheaper to attend than these generic multi genre festivals.

No. 392819

>>391848
My guess is that maybe some of them aren't actually into goth music which is why they aren't interested in these smaller, more goth scene centered festivals.

No. 393016

>>392819
IBF never made any material from Gothic Pogo Festival despite living in Germany and even in Leipzig for years. Neither she ever attended Return to the Batcave in Wrocław during that time. She has been to Prague Gothic Treffen which is gothic rock heavy and also has a band or two playing industrial type of music. As for Castle Party she attended in Poland it's also a generic dark alternative festival where gothic rock is just one of many genres.

No. 393020

It's curious how videos on history of cyber "goth" are omitting New Beat scene. A short lived but influential offshot of EBM. It's like EBM had sex with Detroit Techno. New Beat dancing is a pretty much direct ancestor of many cybergoth dance moves. New Beat originated in Belgium.

No. 393022

>>393020
Let's take this track by Confetti - you can hear that Let's play pong has similar if not the same riff. Also dancer moves are mostly oriented on hand movements like later among cybergoths. BTW very early cybergoth dancing was less static than what could be seen in most of video materials on youtube. If any early cyber scene people are reading that please write down your memories or something. There is barely any info or publications on pre mid '00s scene. That includes lack of photos and videos. They been online years ago but death of geocities hosting service erased them from internet.

No. 393023

>>393022
Another New Beat music video where similarities with cybergoth dancing are visible

No. 393024


No. 393368

>>393016
I remember and it's surprising that she didn't take more advantage to go to these goth-centered festivals because she seemed to be doing okay financially at this time and had lots of free time (and no kids). Maybe it really did come down to mass popular venues for her?

No. 393478

>>393368
Minicave (Munster, Rhine-Westphalia) is quite far, so that one could be less likely to get visited. As for Leipzig where GPF is hosted it's literally the same city. And Wrocław is not that far away from Leipzig tho it's 5h with change of travel but stay is and was much cheaper than anything in Germany. I just measured car/bus travel. Plane flight would be much faster of course.

Dunno, maybe she was earning much less than many think or just did not attend for some other reasons.

For sure all three festivals would be interesting content for vlogs.


And changing somewhat topic - are there any goth centred festivals in France?

No. 395183

>>393016
IMO Freyja is no longer goth. Her old videos were better. She showed people how to upcycle clothes or gave opinions on bands. These days she shills for Romwe, Killstar and Temu. Goth isn't just about the outfits but she's pushing that idea now. She doesn't represent the goth community and is on par with Toxic Tears.

No. 395331

>>395183
That's quite the opinion to share anon but to be honest, I feel you have a point. I do think that while goth is about the music and will always be, it doesn't mean you have to only limit yourself to just the music and that you can listen to other stuff alongside goth music like I'm sure most of us do. But with Freya, she hasn't talked about the music in like 5 years. When she was in Germany, she didn't really go to local goth scenes to share the music (along with the experience). Sure she plays the music in her videos as background music but at this point, it wouldn't be surprising if she only ever uses the music for the videos but doesn't actually listen to it much in her life, at least not much anymore.
You're absolutely right that all she does is shill for clothing brands and makeup. Nothing actually tied to the goth scene because at the end of the day clothing brands like Killstar, Romwe, and Temu are not "goth" clothing, it's general alternative that can be used for any alternative style, it doesn't actually support the goth scene in any meaningful way at all. Heck I'm surprised she hasn't even done a top 10 goth band video nor does she talk about new new goth albums and the few she made videos for music, it was Motionless in White, Marilyn Manson, and some Metal band (can't remember their name but I think it had "Goat" in it's name). And she can't use the excuse that nobody would watch if she talked about goth music because that's not true at all.

So I totally get why you think that Freya is no longer a goth and she's pretty much just an older Toxic Tears. She more than likely was into goth when she was younger but I think overtime she lost interest. And even if she doesn't mean to, she really does give the shallow representation that goth is about clothes and living in some spooky decorated house.

No. 395332

I hate to be "that" person but watching this video, this young woman kinda exemplifies why I feel like a lot of younger people getting into goth really are only into it for the fashion and not the music. In other words, I don't think these people are actual goths. In the video she goes on an on about how she was "always goth at heart" (this to me is usually a red flag statement ngl lol) and how she was always obsessed with horror and dark fashion but not once did she even talk about the music. And honestly, when you ignore her makeup that does seem trad inspired, her outfits don't really scream "goth" to me but just general dark alternative fashion. Black stompy platforms as cool as they are, are not really goth staple shoes and were more associated with the Industrial/Post-Industrial scene and Metal scene (the pair she had with those metal plates on them). I just say this because when I think of goth bands, I hardly ever seen the musicians wearing those huge boots.

Anyway I have no issue with darkly-inclined people, they are nice to talk to since most of us goths are into dark imagery and horror as well but the vibe that this young woman gives me as well as other people who present in this super over the top look feel like they hopped on Pinterest and copied these OTT "trad goth" looks on there and think that wearing this stuff and using goth music (or Depeche Mode who they seem to think is goth) for their TikTok videos makes them goth.

No. 395675

>>395331
>When she was in Germany, she didn't really go to local goth scenes to share the music (along with the experience).

That's because she didn't learn the language and didn't have a German crew. If she integrated she could have done those videos, talked about the difference between Kiwi goth culture and German goth culture. Gone into Germany's evolution within the scene. She missed out on a big opportunity to expand her knowledge and fan base. I know most goths listen to other music or different genres in the subculture, but Freyja is now the typical shallow Instagoth.

No. 395678

>>395332
Depeche Mode, kek. Her outfit looks like she searched Temu for 'goth clothing' and bought all of it. tbh she didn't match it well and it appears to be a costume. You're right, the makeup style is copied from Pinterest. These people show no originality or effort. She said she's into romantic goth. There's a world of difference between 2000s romantic goth, and today's 'interpretation'. This generation takes their cue from Killstar. She doesn't talk about music, it's just the fashion and prob. done to shock her Christian family.
I'm annoyed people can be 'goth' for the look because it's edgy. Goth started out as a music-based culture and these weebs can't even acknowledge that.

No. 395703

>>395675
Given the amount of introverts in European scene bonding with new people may not be that easy even if you speak their language. People contemplating floor or walls for hours finding the process as interesting as talking to others is not rarity.

No. 395735

>>395675
And her refusal to actually learn German so she could truly take in the culture really showcased how lazy she was and how she clearly romanticized Germany. Let's be real, she only moved there to be closer to WGT and Germany's rich gothic architect, she didn't actually care about integrating into German life.

No. 395737

>>395678
AYRT and yeah, "Temu" is the best word for this look. When you look at people who are actually into goth, they tend to be a little more creative with their looks because they are actually investing time into the music and taking inspiration from musicians but also mixing that with other quirks that they personally like. They don't tend to go for a full-on "goth in the box" kind of look compared to people who clearly only do the look for attention and buy from Temu, Aliexpress, and Killstar to where it looks like a costume and they film TikTok videos in.

>You're right, the makeup style is copied from Pinterest.

It's just so obvious. The makeup just all looks the same and I had to put two and two together of where I've seen it which was Pinterest lol.

>She said she's into romantic goth. There's a world of difference between 2000s romantic goth, and today's 'interpretation'.

As someone who loves Romantic Goth, I've gotta be honest that there's been a long-time of misappropriation of what Romantic Goth is. To me, when I think of "romantic goth", it's mixing trad goth with romantic elements. Incorporating ore lace and/or crushed velvet paired with winklepickers and big teased or intricate sharp makeup. Simply throwing on a black gown with lace trim and slapping on a corset and black heels is not "romantic goth" to me but I digress.

It's clear it's more of a shock value thing to her family and she'll either actually get more into what goth is truly about or she'll drop the whole thing and move to the next thing.

No. 395858

>>395183
>IMO Freyja is no longer goth.
That is hard to tell given her knowledge and use of goth rock bands music as background music. She seems to be mostly into SoM "clones" tho. Which were notorious (aside for "deathrock revival") for late '90s to late '00s like nowadays everyone tries hard to be more '80s than '80s. Fashion wise she stopped developing her style like a decade ago. She's fashionwise like mix of early '90s German scene with some additions of '00s dark independent fashion especially strong pre moving out of NZ. Nemesis Now with Alchemy Gothic were at peak popularity.

>>395332
People you are describing been around in the '70s already orbiting near punk scene. Such attitude is older than Lip Service brand.

No. 395887

File: 1715029562887.jpg (52.53 KB, 323x480, vt735mvt71cu_large.jpg)

>>395737
Picrel is from Jeannie Nitro, a site I found in the early 2000s. The Morticia dress with boots and the bloke with winklepickers is what I meant. The corset and lace thing happened later in the 2000s. Although when searching Romantic goth those are the examples we're given. The bands I listened to wore Romantic bordering medieval goth and that's why I liked them. My staples were Tristania, The 3rd And The Mortal, Miranda Sex Garden. I still listen to symphonic bands(just the older stuff because these days they sound like edgy pop).

>or she'll drop the whole thing and move to the next thing.

tbh that's where I see her going. She's not into the music so there's nothing to keep her interested, she's doing it for the attention. She said she always liked horror so maybe she'll drop the Instagoth look for darkly inclined.

No. 395888

File: 1715030432512.jpg (58.32 KB, 364x550, tumblr_999947153f2caba1fce3985…)

>>395737
This outfit is something I would have worn minus the winklepicker boots(they don't fit my wide feet). Picrel is from defunct site Black Rose Clothing. I used to visit a site called Antimony & Lace. She's a romantic goth that taught DIY projects like making a pirate shirt from a t-shirt or creating a necklace from cooked roses. She was a good inspiration and encouraged me to sew and alter my clothes. She did have a Facebook group but took it down last year and her site is no longer available. I think these new goths could learn a thing or two about DIY. We didn't have a Killstar or Dark In Closet. We had to thrift stuff and add to it, or buy from the mall and change it so it wasn't noticeable. Not to mention waiting 6-12 weeks for boots to arrive in the mail, kek.

No. 395899

>>395888
Nona you killed me mentioning antimony and lace. An Oldfag goth, I loved that site and would go on the forums almost every day back in highschool. I miss those days

No. 395955

>>395888

>We didn't have a Killstar or Dark In Closet


No, but you had several other brands of alt clothing at that point selling by mail order and distributing paper catalogues. Not to mention physical shops selling stuff [at least in major European cities]. There were also several jewellery makers active beside Alchemy Gothic [brand which is just few years younger than punk rock].

No. 395958

>>395887
>The corset and lace thing happened later in the 2000s

It been around for a while. It was already present in alternative fashion back in the '80s. It was worn by Strawberry Switchblade duo. It was worn by Patrica Morrison. Not 24/7 but it is visible in video clips or photo shoots predating the '90s. In 2000s it just had height of it's popularity (or was overplayed is the other way of putting it).

No. 395966

>>395858
>Freya
>SoM clones
Yeah it's pretty clear that she favors that 90s sound of goth rock and I don't hate it since I like that sound as well though I need to keep things varied so I don't get too bored of it so I tend to rote but with Freya, she has not done a video on the music in years and in recent times she's only talked about non-goth music. So I totally understand why the other anon thinks that Freya may not be an actual goth anymore and it just like the instagoths nowadays. And that's ignoring the underbelly drama of her potentially scamming people that's been a discussion in the altcows thread.

>People you are describing been around in the '70s already orbiting near punk scene. Such attitude is older than Lip Service brand.

Oh I'm aware that it was around back then but I feel like it's just even more obvious in the modern day because of fast fashion.

No. 395971

File: 1715067670773.jpg (35.38 KB, 323x756, plain_as_fuck_pointy_stilettos…)

Dressing romantic back in the '90s while only thrifting was a bit easier as there was still mass of pieces from the '80s and '70s circulating, ocasionally even the '60s stuff. These were times of strong neo victorian (sometimes called "witchy") and neo edwardian influences on mainstream fashion. Nowadays we can still hit the late '80s/early '90 stuff but the '70s are like winning at the lottery.

As for shoes - I don't understand the obsession of wearing "goth pikes" or not wearing anything. There been dozens of types of shoes worn back in the '80s scene that were not your "boots we call goth pikes nowadays". Plain pointy stilettos one can buy easily also today was worn on may pictures from that era both worn by band members (plenty of photos of Patricia Morrison for exmaple) and night cub regulars Batcave included. Last time I have seen them being worn by goth was… umm… I don't remember seeing them worn by any goth in like a decade. Siouxie been wearing knee high high heel boots in the photo session, western boots as well. Both of these are pretty easily available nowadays even in offer of regular brands, no need to look for fetish wear section. I have checked some popular brands in my country for pointed toes shoes and get several dozens of models. It's like people developed taboo which forbids them from wearing "regular shoes from regular stores" it has to be pikes, New Rocks, Killstar or at least combat boots. Everything else - verbotten! Dunno why it became like this. Even skinwalkers are often copying all these stars of the past but not in shoes part even if they can buy them off the shelf even in smallest towns with ease same as buying veggies and bread.

No. 396004

File: 1715087172653.png (86.52 KB, 720x777, Screenshot_20240506-205722~2.p…)

>>395899
As a teen I lived in a small town and there wasn't a goth scene nearby. Like most 2000s teens we had to look online for input. I was part of a Yahoo goth group and I think someone mentioned lilibat's website. imo the problem with zoomers is they have everything at their fingertips. They can click on a pair of shoes and have them in a few days. They didn't have to save their paycheck for weeks so they could buy that one expensive item. And you'd wear it to death so that's when the patches and sewing came in. There were some brands available online but they were too pricey. Zoomers don't make their own looks. Most aren't into the music so the inspiration doesn't come from that. It comes from TikTok and Instagram. They hang out with other posers and not real Goths, so no one can give them useful tips. They throw on a Hirajuku costume and think How many TikTok likes will I get? The reality of necessity isn't there for them. Granted there are some who live in a small country or town that has limited goth music etc. I'm talking as a whole, this new generation look like hipsters.

No. 396011

>>395955
You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

No. 396025

>>396011
Then enlighten us as our geriatic aging minds might have twisted our memories.

No. 396035


No. 396049

File: 1715102490252.jpg (63.28 KB, 949x1200, RoseMortem.jpg)

>>395887
AYRT and I have seen a few clothes from Jeanie Nitro and that's totally fair, I see what you meant. Another main clothing brand I think of when I hear "Romantic Goth" is Rose Mortem (picrel). The fact that that the designer was in an goth band (The Awakening) really showed through with a lot of how she styled the dresses giving that "Romantic + goth" vibe I mentioned as well. I'm still sad that I never was able to get a dress from her since she closed down her shop back in 2019.

>tbh that's where I see her going. She's not into the music so there's nothing to keep her interested, she's doing it for the attention. She said she always liked horror so maybe she'll drop the Instagoth look for darkly inclined.

Right, as I said this is what I've noticed a lot with gen z who get into music-based subcultures like goth, punk, and metal who only care about the clothes and making edgy Tiktok videos where because they don't engage and take an active interest in the music, they have no genuine connection to the scene and it's why they jump from style to style in a short amount of time vs someone who gets into the subculture for the music and tend to stay a tad longer.

No. 396053

>>395888
AYRT and I never heard of Black Rose Clothing (tried looking it up but couldn't find it but that look you shared totally would pass as Romantic Goth in my opinion, thanks for sharing. The store owner sounded like she was a great inspiration for sure and it's a shame she's no longer around, I would've loved to check her out. What you said about the thrifting though, that is so true. Funny enough Angela Benedict made a recent video talking about this where she noted how back then when thrifting was more affordable, the old goth scene participants were able to come up with all kinds of looks that didn't look similar and were more varied and unique while still retaining a few key goth staples.
I feel like this is another reason why Gen Z just doesn't have that "heart" of goth neither (not all of course, you know what I mean lol) and again, contributes to why they don't have a genuine connection with the scene as part of the scene encouraged DIY and creativity.

No. 396055

>>395955
There were somewhat big brands back in the day, you're not wrong there but still they were pretty pricey and most would still rely on thrifting or really using their creative juices to craft looks from DIYing basic generic clothes. At most, unless you had a lot of money to throw away, most people would save up for one or two of the more expensive gothic brand stuff. Some big brand names I remember besides the aforementioned Rose Mortem, were MorbidThreads, Ipso-Facto, Lip Service (they had a few things back in the day that could be used for a Romantic Goth outfit), The Crypt, and Shrine (now called "Shrine of Hollywood) and while many of the clothes offered in these places were very wanted, they were so expensive so we made due with what we could with DIY and thrifting while saving up for one of these brands for like birthdays and Christmas' haha.

>>395958
>Strawberry Switchblade
I do agree that the corset and lace thing was around but do people really think Strawberry Switchblade are goth? Because they aren't, they were like new wave/synth pop.

No. 396056

File: 1715103777384.jpg (113.19 KB, 537x781, gothboy.jpg)


No. 396058

>As for shoes - I don't understand the obsession of wearing "goth pikes" or not wearing anything. There been dozens of types of shoes worn back in the '80s scene that were not your "boots we call goth pikes nowadays".
I understand that winklepickers type boots weren't the only shoe worn in the goth scene, all I meant is that when I think of what "thee" goth staple shoe is, I think of "goth pikes" because these weren't really a shoe you saw much of in other music-based subcultures. The closest was probably the Rockabilly scene and technically it did first but the style you saw in goth looks quite distinct compared to something like combat boots that had more universal appeal in alternative music scenes.

I apologize if I came off in saying that if you don't wear winklepickers, it's not goth because hell, I don't own winklepickers and I live in my doc Merten knock-offs and black tennis shoes kek. All I meant was that if I had to choose a stereotypical goth boot, it would be those lol.

No. 396060

>>396053
>AYRT and I never heard of Black Rose Clothing

You can find old webpages of most popular brands archived on archive.org site. There are even 1998 and 1999 archived versions of Retail Slut shop webpage. What is nice about such pages is that they used to have links to other websites of similar themes so once you find one of such pages you get a chain of links to other oldschool web pages with many old photos that are no longer circulating in mainstream internet. There are many looks that would cause a heart attack in many instagram perfection obsessed individuals as the '90s were still not stranger to more zombiefied ghoulish looks that only minority of goths do nowadays. Think looks of bands like Alien Sex Fiend or Neva, heck even Cinema Strange.

Try looking for archived webpages of older still running brands they may have interesting outgoing links that might have been archived.

No. 396062

>>396004
You sharing that story of how we saved up for expensive clothes and then cherishing them and wearing them to death. I still remember when I got my first pair of Doc Marten knock-offs from SinisterSoles and I wore them to death lasting me a good 6 years before they were unwearable kek. You're right though and that is what gen z doesn't seem to comprehend. I won't give them too much grief on having the music being as easily accessible because I used the internet as well when getting into the music back in 2008 because I didn't know any goths IRL, just "mall goths" so I took advantage of the internet and was able to find goth music that way. But I feel like because of Tiktok & Instagram bringing in this instant gratification mentality, that is what sorta killed the spirit of getting into alternative subcultures out of pure interest and intrigue and instead, about getting the most lieks and follows. It's all just shallow and it makes me glad I was around to take in the subculture before Instagram/Tiktok culture came in.

No. 396063

File: 1715104515670.jpg (61.48 KB, 500x672, Suspiria.jpg)

The singer from Suspiria, I feel like he was a good example of a male Romantic goth. He's had the coat and boots down.

No. 396064

>>396060
This is true, anon. I forgot to mention archive.org for the websites. Lilibat's site was originally 313.net and she changed it to Antimony & Lace. Website link to enter in archive.org for the nostalgia. https://www.gothfashion.info/
I remember trying to make the tattered skirt and my dad flipping out because I cut up my clothes.

No. 396070

>>396055
Omg anon. Ipso-facto! I used to love scrolling thru their website and wishing I could afford their clothing. Same with Lip Service and another site called Heavy Red. My dad used to give me a $20 allowance that had to last the whole week. It included food and anything I needed. In my tiny town we had a local theatre. They gave their cast offs to a nearby thrift store. That meant my style was Romantic or medieval. Or a bit vampire, and I was inspired by Vampire Freaks. Some of those pieces were expensive but nowhere near what online charged. I never could afford that, so of course it was DIY or working with accessories.

No. 396071

>>396055
>I do agree that the corset and lace thing was around but do people really think Strawberry Switchblade are goth? Because they aren't, they were like new wave/synth pop.

Goth is New Wave as New Wave is broader basket than Goth. In my country our original goth bands were calling themselves "New Wave" back in the '80s.


Musically SS is not goth. Fashionwise - inspired as McDowall been participating in goth and also industrial scene both at that point and later in life. They also been one of western inspirations (inspirations as there been already "proto lolita" trends running for a while when SS became a one hit wonder in Japan) that shaped more modern lolita fashion including gothic lolita. I don't think it would be controversial to claim that SS also inspired some Brit goths.

>>396058
I understand nona. I'm just tired of endless rivers of tears cried over "it's hard to get tradgoth pointy goth shoes that are goth as fuck" that I have seen plenty of in recent years. Just go to random footwear store if you are female. Males in case of "mainstream shops" are mostly limited to biker or cowboy boots in pointy resort tho there are also some smaller mainstream brands that still do pointy male formal shoes. BTW pointy shoes mania started somewhere in 1950s and before *billes revival they been sported by several groups.

>>396063
Yea, historic inspired additions were big in that trend.

No. 396073

>>396053
Black rose clothing was around but I don't know when the site died. Pic of the Romantic goth dress with winkle boots were pulled from Tumblr. Someone found or saved a few pics. I like the girl with purple Nina Hagen type hair. https://www.tumblr.com/witchrealms/743940781644054528/x
That site did a good job of Romantic goth/witchy imo.

No. 396075

What do you think about ghoulish looks? I often get feeling that a lot of modern goths are too sterile clean looking. People rarely do stuff like tearing/chopping shirts/tops or acid washing. Also hairstyles looks more like something popstars rather than goths would be sporting back in the days.

No. 396077

BTW I would also mention galleries at WGT page they still have photos of early editions. Or at least had when I last visited their site. LOL

No. 396078

>>396075
Agree, I specifically wish more people went with wild-looking bushy, teased hair styles rather than straightening their hair to death.

No. 396079

>>396078
Ye, perfect straight hair, perfect straight lines in makeup, perfectly ironed clothig. Even torn pantyhose or fishnets are not that common anymore. It's like modern goth is having OCD problem of clean perfection.

No. 396082

>>396062
Yes my docs were the most expensive item in my wardrobe. I had a friend from school that let me borrow her winklepickers and I was in agony before the day was out. I decided it wasn't worth the pain of looking über goth, and screw anyone who said I wasn't. I still wear docs because they are comfortable.
I don't hate the new gen for finding music online. That's where I found mine including Darkwave bands like Dead Can Dance and Love Spirals Downwards. Our local music store only had Marylin Manson, Depeche Mode, Tool and Godsmack. And I agree Gen Z only has a few seconds clip of whatever is trending on TikTok.

>that is what sorta killed the spirit of getting into alternative subcultures out of pure interest and intrigue

Agreed. In some places it was taboo or considered satanic. I had to do a lot of research to convince my dad that I wasn't drinking blood from a skull. When I was a kid I saw a Romantic goth girl in the shop. She seemed mysterious and otherworldly and I was too scared to tell her I liked her style. I was intrigued by her. She seemed to be from another time and I didn't know people could dress opposite of how my parents dressed me. I'm glad too that I was around before Tiktok and Instagram.

No. 396086

>>396082

Were old docs finished with different material than they are nowadays? Modern have a rather thick plastic finish. I don't like that type of finish. It resists polishing with shoe polish and tends to crack.

No. 396092

>>396086
ntayrt, but there are docs that are made out of "virginia leather" and they are way softer and don't have that plastic looking finish. They are also way easier to break in and last about the same time that regular docs will last you.

No. 396094

>>396092
Ah, thanks for info nona!

>and last about the same time that regular docs will last you.


Not sure if that's a pro or con

No. 396095

>>396053
I see the same problem in the UK. It started with these Budget Your Life gurus on TV. They told people about thrift shopping and that's when stores began to change. Now they charge boutique prices for second hand clothes! I had a convo with a girl about this. She only shops at Traid when everything goes on sale. She said they charge extortionate amounts for a dress and it isn't a new. The shop owners get donations free, then search the item online and price it. That's a shitty thing to do considering people go there because they can't afford it. And they say 'it's this or that price online.' I didn't ask the price compared to online. It's true that high street shops are now cheaper than thrift stores. Gen Z doesn't know the thrill of finding that one unique item that isn't anywhere else. As a thrifting teen I'd get comments like Omg where did you get that? And the joy of saying I found it second hand. Now you don't need to ask where they found it. It's obvious it came from Killstar or Temu. I used to look at the lingerie too. I had a floor length one that I'd wear with a crinoline, paired with a flowy top and hiding the front with a bustier. No one knew I was wearing a night gown unless I told them. They just thought it was a dress.
I still thrift but I don't go to the posh ones. It's a shame this generation is so generic, but their idea of goth is generic as well.

No. 396096

>>396086
I think docs used to be better quality. I remember my first ones lasting a couple of years. I don't know what they changed but I'm lucky if they last 6 months. I recall the soles being more sturdy and the leather stronger. Maybe they source their leather from people who don't feed their cows well. The toes on my shoes get scuffed easier and I'm sure they didn't back then.

No. 396102

>>396096
>>396094
>>396092
>>396086
Just get any leather boot from army surplus. Cheaper, more comfortable and lasts longer.

No. 396106

>>396092
Virginia leather? is that sourced from Virginia? My first docs came from the UK, so I don't know if the docs in America are different quality. I just know that in the 2000s they seemed more sturdy than they are today.

No. 396113

File: 1715115840325.jpg (219.99 KB, 720x794, 585045-3378522157.jpg)

>>396102
Poland is notorious for having multitude of producers of "steel toed combat boots" or how we call them "glany" (from German "glanz" - "to shine"). You can buy them in various variants of height from shoes reaching ankle ankle to long boots with 20 and even 30 eyelets if you fancy such entertaining activity that lacing is. Some of producers also make boots with similar air pocket rubber soles as Dr Martens.
For like half the price of Dr Martens or cheaper. Probably similar or better quality and better more natural finish.

No. 396115

File: 1715116030458.jpg (289.3 KB, 874x1291, il_1080xN.5036222381_pg6h~2.jp…)

>>396049
I remember Rose Mortem but hadn't realised she closed her shop. That is a shame. I like the style of Rose's dress. It definitely gives me 90s to early 2000s Romantic vibes. idk if they sell this online currently. If they do it might be cheap AliExpress rags. I think many quality goth shops are closing down due to the rise in fabric prices. It's cheaper to buy something online than to sew from scratch, unfortunately.

No. 396116

>>396086
They're made in China nowadays (instead of the UK) so they're cheaping out on the manufacturing somewhere

No. 396117

>>396106
AFAIK they are made in China nowadays except for a line that is explicitly named something like English made/made in England.

Same goes with brand T.U.K. Made in China too. Nice creeper's designs but their soles break after few dance nights unfortunately, so they are strictly for activities like shopping or not too long walks.

No. 396120

File: 1715116728513.jpg (25.28 KB, 375x500, glany.jpg)

>>396113
Glany are still made in Poland and you can contact producer if you want to have buckles added. You can ask to put studs on them and/or winter insulation layer. If you want to be called a poseur you can also order them with side zipper. LOL

No. 396121

>>396063
Oh, I would love to have his coat. But thinking how much it would cost to sew makes me cry.

>>396113
I like these boots! My first docs were a bit similar; very sturdy and lasted years. They almost had a military feel to them. I used to visit army surplus shops for those types of boots but they changed the style. They stopped the rounded toe and made them more narrow. I'll have a look for boots in Poland. Doc Martens have cashed in on the name and the quality has gone down.
They were known for their durability but not anymore.

No. 396125

File: 1715117699125.webp (32.37 KB, 600x800, buty-czarne-wysokie-kot-optimi…)

>>396121
>I'll have a look for boots in Poland

Look for brands Nagaba or Steady's. There is also Steel but it's a controversial brand quality wise and due to finish they are using. If you are in EU or UK there should not be any problem with shipping.

There is Polish glany maker that moved to the UK (he started years ago in Kraków [Cracow]) that is hand manufacturing in semi bespoke manner a very D.I.Y. punk looking boots that is selling his creations under brand name of Cockney's but they are very expensive as he is not running serial production like other Polish manufacturers are. Picrel is an example of one of his models with UwU kitty. Adorable if you ask me.

No. 396130

>>396094
Mine lasted 6 years of almost daily wear, the sole is broken now on one foot, but it's been going through stuff. I would say if you happen to be able to get some older Docs not made in China you should buy them.

>>396096
6 months? I've worn mine nearly daily for 6 years now and they started to fall apart recently, because of the work I do. But that being said, mine were made in Vietnam and not China and as far as I've read up on it, the quality declined extremely with them being made in China.

>>396106
Kek, would be funny, but no, to quote what they wrote "Virginia is a soft, fine-grain leather that's treated to make it smooth and supple". It's just a different treated form of leather, it's softer and not so sleek.

>>396113
Do some of them come without steel toes? I need new boots, but steel toes are too heavy for my daily life, but I would love to buy stuff made in Europe.

No. 396132

>>396120
Nta but do you have any advice on contacting a producer if you don't speak polish? I'd be interested in a pair with buckles added.

No. 396139

>>396130
Yes, as opposed to the docs I wore as a teen in 2000s. idk where these cheap quality docs come from. But they did last around 6 months. I wear docs all the time even in summer. Wide feet makes it hard to find shoes. Even heels or pointed toes is uncomfortable. I do miss the steel capped boots, though. I do like anons Polish stompers and will definitely look into it.

No. 396140

File: 1715121495529.jpg (48.24 KB, 460x570, pol_pm_glany-STEADYS-15-dziure…)

>>396130
>Do some of them come without steel toes? I need new boots, but steel toes are too heavy for my daily life, but I would love to buy stuff made in Europe.

Majority of them come with steel toes, but you can order models without steel toe cap. I have seen series without toe caps made in the past. I don't see them online currently so I guess you would have to ask producers individually. Not adding a steel cap should not be an issue IMHO it's not a very significant change in manufacturing and they offer custom orders so there should be a pretty high chance they can make you a pair without steel caps.

>>396132
You can buy trough Rock Metal Shop (a well established online alt shop in Poland) - it has google translate option on page so you can navigate site in English and I would expect that they should be able to handle eventual correspondence in English too. Here is a link to all Steady's boots in their offer https://rockmetalshop.pl/firm-pol-1314603508-STEADYS.html You may try asking on their FB page if they can contact producer for you so you can order 30 eyelets model with buckles. I don't see why they would not be interested in doing so. I know that they been contacting New Rock in the past related to their models in offer.

Official online shop of producer of Steady's is mentioning that to get your order shipped abroad you have to contact them by mail, they have contact e-mail mentioned at https://rockglany.com/pl/i/Kontakt/15 it's sklep( a t )rockglany.com Try writing them in English put "W sprawie wysyłki glanów za granicę" in subject and write mail itself in English.

Both shops have 30 eyelets without buckles models in offer for same price 499PLN which is about 115 Euros. So if no buckles is fine go for Rock Metal Shop. It has models with buckles up to 15 eyelets. And also some other types of shoes and boots from same producer.

No. 396143

File: 1715123560728.jpg (51.71 KB, 732x1000, buty-motocyklowe-r3k.jpg)

If someone is into motorbike style boots that are versatile enough to be worn outside of bike saddle this producer has classic "chopper" harness style boots as well as more modern styles that can be alternative for New Rocks and cost half NR price
https://sklep.raceboots.pl/10-buty-motocyklowe

If you have any questions about stuff you can find made in Poland - feel free to ask. Polish leather and shoe industry is pretty good quality and has long traditions with attractive prices. And that covers not only boots/shoes but also coats, jackets, classic motorbike clothing, purses etc.

No. 396150

File: 1715125204475.jpg (55.52 KB, 563x998, 5a52ff928a39fe8a37d9e239351668…)

>>396140
great info, thanks nonnie!

>>395887
>>396049
Does anyone know where to get things similar to this now? I know Jeannie Nitro is still in business and I love them, but I'm a europoor and really would prefer something in the EU.

No. 396154

>>396140
Thank you so much for your detailed reply anon!

No. 396159

File: 1715127466979.webp (63.7 KB, 1200x857, 29378h_bordo_crazy_39_4.jpg.we…)

>>396150
Hmm it looks not that far from some medieval patterns for dresses (but uses far less fabric, medieval dresses were so darn "fabric hungry"
). Try asking at historical reenactment groups or consult local seamstress regarding how much would it cost to get that made for you. You may also find alt clothing sewing groups on facebook.

>>396140
Ah I forget to link to Nagaba shop. They have eng version of their site.
https://nagaba.eu/category/boots-women

They have velour and other leather types in offer for boots. They should be also open for modifications like buckles etc so try asking them if you are interested in their products.

No. 396160

File: 1715127606972.webp (49.53 KB, 1200x857, 69920h_granat_czarny_kabir_39_…)

>>396159
I think their tallest are 20 eyelets

No. 396161

File: 1715127735322.webp (57.7 KB, 1182x857, 1109n_5191_p6lu_01bo_0_42_4.jp…)

>>396160
Ok found picrel under buckles category.

No. 396164

>>396130
Nagaba has Ultra Light line of boots without steel cap, so looks like you can order from this link
https://nagaba.eu/category/boots-shark-women

No. 396261

File: 1715156098633.jpg (114.33 KB, 546x800, CinamonHadley.jpg)

>>296260
>this anon is right, goth fashion just doesn't have that shock value like it used to which is why goth culture is sort of in stasis right now.

It also does not have too much edge outside of maybe some European scenes but even there more ghastly punky looks are dominated by instagram perfect outfits and makeup so perfect it makes you ears ring. Remember that back in earlier days looking like you never iron your clothes or like spectre that just left your cemetery coffin was a lot more common. Such looks went almost extinct with middle range of millenials entering the scene and among zoomers they are even more rare. So it went both ways - alt fashion became more acceptable for normies in both senses of that phrase.

But still even nowadays looking like Cinamon Hadley would rise many eyebrows even in most progressive European countries. Normies are nowhere near being used to big bat nest type teased hair. Heck I know goths who are past their 20s who still get comments about their teased goth hairstyles from own families. So guess what impression it makes on far less used to seeing such stuff general public.

No. 396263

File: 1715156623112.jpg (37.49 KB, 500x452, a17a0fc8b98a8f002d79233d31bbaa…)


No. 396264

File: 1715156956824.jpg (264.17 KB, 934x1383, 6fd56ca8e1ceb66656a5a6c04b3d66…)

>>396263
With such hairstyles you will get looks and more or less dumb comments all over Europe including UK and even Germany even in Leipzig during WGT (been there seen and heard that).

No. 396279

File: 1715167814775.webp (54.24 KB, 750x938, 65f74129914c35d183f3c079a5c484…)

>>396150
>Does anyone know where to get things similar to this now?

You could try looking for a lace bolero(picrel). If you don't mind buying online, most of them cost between £18-£29.
https://www.chachashops.com/products/halloween-gothic-lace-bolero

Or this site https://cutiekillshop.com/products/gothic-lace-elegant-bolero-ah0462

If they are too expensive search gothic bolero on Amazon. idk any European shops that would sell this. Some of these gothic shops charge too much. You could try regular shops, they usually have flowy hippie shirts during summer. You could buy it and dye it with black Dylon. Or you could buy black lace fabric and sew it onto the sleeves of a shirt you already have.
https://www.fashionlyfe.com/single-post/2017/05/24/how-to-make-a-bell-sleeve-pattern

No. 396283

>>396279
>>You could buy it and dye it with black Dylon

Or Simplicol.

No. 396284

>>396150
Video shows you how to make the bells sleeve from my previous link.
https://youtu.be/I8TPmhManjs

It's easier with a sewing machine but if you are patient you can sew it by hand. You could remove the sleeves from a shirt or dress. Cut fabric and add them to the dress. Some sleeve shapes are circle or triangle.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/1048423988236795194/

Pre-made patterns are useful too.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/743023638539461091/

If those are too challenging, look for sewing a godet to the sleeve. Godet is a small triangle piece of fabric, it will give the sleeves some flair and it's not too difficult.

No. 396311

File: 1715187844970.jpg (124.51 KB, 793x975, d243e143aca210c1d5d07b2ddd4f15…)

>>396264
Add to that zombie style makeup and good luck calling that "socially acceptable"

No. 396312

File: 1715187878279.jpg (42.49 KB, 400x317, DANIELLE_DAX_016.jpg)


No. 396314


No. 396315


No. 396317

And I will end these examples of not so socially acceptable even today goth looks with Scary Bitches. Coz why not. They scary looking to your moms.

No. 396401

I love tradgoth so much

No. 396456

>>396401
Do you dress in that vein too?

No. 396535


No. 396537


No. 396538

1997 gothic fashion

No. 396539

1997 goff home decor

No. 396540


No. 396542


No. 396543


No. 396545


No. 396546

Anon, I'm sure you have the best intentions in mind but I'm not sure if posting videos with no explanation is the best idea to revive this thread. How's life going? Been to any club recently? We're in the exact opposite part of the year to autumn (if you live in the north hemisphere), days are getting longer and warmer… not the best weather for leather, velvet and synthetic lace.

No. 396551

>>396546
>Been to any club recently?
Yea, we have plenty of events every month even not counting gig. How about you?

>We're in the exact opposite part of the year to autumn (if you live in the north hemisphere), days are getting longer and warmer… not the best weather for leather, velvet and synthetic lace.

That's your opinion. There are also other fabrics and actual lace. Fishnets would do too.

Back to the thread - anyone remember this stuff in vidrel?

No. 396556

>>396551
>Yea, we have plenty of events every month even not counting gig. How about you?
That's nice, I don't have a local scene so it's been 1 year since I went to an event. I'm pretty much broke so I really can't afford going to places more than 3h away.
>That's your opinion.
In my area that's a fact, weather conditions make it that way sadly (+30ºC day and night with humidity). Fishnets are a good substitute if they holes are big.
>anyone remember this stuff in vidrel?
I wasn't alive back then, but I saw that compilation a year ago or so and thought that she was so cool. Apparently those Rawtime videos went viral on the clock app and people even tried to reach her out irl.

No. 396562

>>396556
>That's nice, I don't have a local scene so it's been 1 year since I went to an event.

Tried reaching out to other people? Even in most remote parts of my country there are at least few goths per administrative subdivision. And it's a pretty stereotypical post communist are of the world. Sometimes there are big gaps in age but still a goff is a goff and talking to someone who remembers 80s punk days is interesting as heck when you don't remember such times. Ah yea, try reaching "general" local punks. It's not that rare for them to like some gothic rock especially if they been a while into punk rock.

>I'm pretty much broke so I really can't afford going to places more than 3h away.


If you have any colleagues into semi similar music you can party at home or in some desolated empty ruined building with a portable audio device with semi decent speaker.

>In my area that's a fact, weather conditions make it that way sadly (+30ºC day and night with humidity).


I remember wearing a pretty tall combat boots for several summers in such temperatures. good old days. Now I'm too lazy to lace them unless I'm going to an event. I also read stories of more hardcore scene members having to "unglue" leather from their bodies after wearing pretty impressive amount of leather in the summer. Some people are hardcore as fuck.

>Fishnets are a good substitute if they holes are big.


Aye, big holes and ripped tunic or t-shirts.

No. 396565

>>396562
Ahh, and linen. Especially baggy linen stuff are saviors in hot summer.

No. 396579

File: 1715286012548.png (571.41 KB, 393x609, mirabelledress.png)

>>396562
>Tried reaching out to other people?
Yeah, but I don't live in a country were goth is relevant, I'm in Europe but not in the central or eastern parts. It's like subcultures died all of a sudden after 2015 here. There used to be a fair amount of punks (anarchists), emos and metal fans but they have all disappeared too. Not even weebs have resisted the 2020s.
>If you have any colleagues into semi similar music you can party at home or in some desolated empty ruined building with a portable audio device with semi decent speaker.
Anon, it's not like I haven't thought of that, but I don't have anyone who would do that with me. I'm an avid explored of abandoned urban areas but 99% of people are not at all into that. These days people around me want ''raves'' in conventional festivals, not authentic clandestine parties in decaying buildings, at least that's been my experience so far. But I shall insist some more on that and see who could join me someday.
>Some people are hardcore as fuck.
Yeah, in my case I never prioritized looks over comfort, specially when it came to shoes.
>>396565
>linen
It feels like linen is the kind of fabric you appreciate more and more as you grow older. If you iron linen clothes they look elegant and antique, plus you don't sweat that much while wearing linen.

No. 396581

>>396579
>>396565
>linen
This. My current city can only be described as "as close to Hell as you can get without actually being Hell", summmers here can get as high as 110-115 degrees for weeks at a time. Linen has been amazing and I can't believe I didn't discover it sooner. Right now I'm wearing some black linen shorts which work great as any casual "throw it on" outfit without wearing jeans kek

No. 396598

>>396579
Love this dress, where is it from?

No. 396660

File: 1715319749539.jpg (268.43 KB, 1080x1628, bulgariandress.jpg)

>>396581
>Linen has been amazing and I can't believe I didn't discover it sooner.

It's funny how forgotten it get nowadays considering how common linen was in the past. Very underappreciated material that was allowing Europeans to wear long sleeve even during hot 30°C summers and it was actually helping them keep them cool. Great for dresses, trousers, even two piece suits and shirts.

>>396579
Now that made me curious. Goffs exists in Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy. And your description of summer certainly does not sound like anything of Northern Europe.

>>396579
>If you iron linen

I actually don't unless it has to be worn for very formal occasion [linen shirts are part of formal regional costumes in multiple countries]. It gets good enough shape by just being hung on cloth hanger and it gets creases anyway after an hour or two of walking in it so I just embrace it as it's natural property.


Viscose also seems to be decent for hot days in my experience but dunno how it performs if humidity is actually "tropical high" as on these days I'm mostly bunkered in my house praying for summer to end.

I yet have to try hemp clothing.

High quality not too thick wool was also acting decently but I rarely have it in my wardrobe.

No. 396661


No. 396678

>>396660
>Now that made me curious. Goffs exists in Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy.
We do have goths in southern Europe but like I said there's no scene in my area and surroundings, and almost no scene outside of the capital. I used to live for a while near the oldest goth club in my country and saturday nights were full of casuals, yet the club was still barely full. The situation was very different 15-20 years ago.
> it gets creases anyway after an hour or two of walking in it
I haven't had that experience with pure linen clothes even if I handwash them and block them before drying, that's more of a property linen-cotton blends have.
>>396661
That's it!

No. 396680

>>396678
>We do have goths in southern Europe but like I said there's no scene in my area and surroundings, and almost no scene outside of the capital.

I understand how you feel, anon. Maybe you could visit Gumtree or Craigslist and put it out there. Ask if there are alt people who would like to hang out. I'm sure there are others in your town who are thinking the same thing. And looking for regular events such as food or fabric/quilting groups. I'm sure there are like-minded people in those groups. Maybe they know where to find other groups too. You never know. I don't think we'll ever have the scenes from 20 years ago. But that doesn't mean we can't revive it.

No. 396681

>>396678
depends what level of creases we both have in mind and what is the thickness and density and what cut/fit of clothing

I forget to mention natural silk as warm weather friendly.

No. 396682

>>396680
I have seen cases where starting to hold DJ nights with goff rock was enough to gather group of people after few months

but of course demographic factors may differ in other places

yet many areas of Europe "do not have local scene" often because no one ever did anything to actually organize anything - I know numerous cases where I ran into people from various cities in my country that were believing for years that they are the only goths in town. Kinda hilarious when you hear that from yet another 5th-10th person from same city as others who told you same story.

No. 396748

File: 1715357845296.jpg (52.27 KB, 640x826, ea4faa663643ff5fbcaf78400c20a2…)

>>396581
>Linen has been amazing and I can't believe I didn't discover it sooner.
Picrel is what I generally wear in summer. A cotton or linen blouse. Cotton skirt or dress. I'm well past the idea of wearing velvet or leather in hot weather. I tried that when I was 16 and realised it's not worth getting heat stroke.

No. 396752

>>396682
>I have seen cases where starting to hold DJ nights with goff rock was enough to gather group of people after few months
My small town had a normal club but Thursdays was Goth Night. If anyone's city is totally dead for goths, it might be worth asking the club manager if they could do a goth night. They might not get much business, but it would encourage goths to come out of the cave. If anything you'd find darkly inclined folks. Sharing different music is always a conversation starter.

No. 396777

>>396680
Ayrt I've thought of that too, I created a profile in an app designed to make friends by matching music taste, but even though I was very generous with the area parameter I didn't find anyone interesting. Lots of guys into metal, barely any truly alternative people. And I think that's very indicative of the state of the subculture here the fact that I don't see any goth teens. Actually, I don't see many alternative teenagers at all, even the couple of random e-girls seem to be in their early twenties, kids coming from school all dress normie as shit.
>I don't think we'll ever have the scenes from 20 years ago. But that doesn't mean we can't revive it.
I like that mindset. I think one fantasy of mine must be extremely common to any other isolated goth: to open your own goth club and stablish yourself as a powerful and active figure in your local scene, helping the subculture by running a club that plays actual goth music and also gives the opportunity to local bands and djs to perform. I think my city is big enough for that to be profitable, maybe someone with the skills and money to open a club like that takes the initiative some day.
>>396681
Now that I think of it, most of my linen is very old and it was storaged under bad conditions for a very long time, so when I rescued it from the box it was very stiff. Maybe the fabric has been damaged to some degree, although it doesn't feel rough on my skin after so many washes, but maybe the fibers are not well.
>>396748
That shawl is beautiful

No. 396779

>>396777
Linen is sturdy material, I doubt it get damaged, it even gets stronger when wet. Hemp is also strong as heck. I have seen a literal WW2 era bags in use in farming as recently as circa 10 years ago made of some of these materials. Most probably it was hemp.

Any nonas interested in boots tried reaching producers?

No. 396780

>>396748
>cloves
They are giving me flashbacks of the '90s when everyone and their dogs were smoking cigarettes. Especially in "artsy" circles.

No. 396798

>>396780
im not even goth and i smoke cloves sometimes, theyre so good

No. 396799

File: 1715371361936.gif (1.11 MB, 500x370, giphy-2018214210.gif)

>>396780
Man, those kid adverts were hard core. Smoke Cigarettes And Skeletons Will Drag You To Hell.
I think the 90s are having a revival at the moment.

No. 396803

>>396779
It was literally rotting in a dark basement that had been flooded, there was a lot of mold and rat poop on that box kek, acrylic could've never

No. 396874

>>396803
If there been any substantial damage clothing would start falling apart. As for mold it was not rare for linen to survive centuries on top of literal decomposing human bodies. You can even buy bales of linen online that are over century old and in pristine condition.

No. 396876

>>396874
Ah and in the region of Europe I'm from people occasionally are holding in their families linen folk formal shirts that been made in 19th century. There would be more of them if Germans did not had a tradition of burning whole villages in countries they visited during WW2. Linen unfortunately is not fire proof but can withstand a lot of other factors.

No. 397029

>>396777
>I think one fantasy of mine must be extremely common to any other isolated goth: to open your own goth club and stablish yourself as a powerful and active figure in your local scene
Anon, if you want to do that, give it a go. Everything that we have started out as an idea. If you're not comfortable with owning a club, you could try renting a space. Have something like a goth café for people to sit and chat. Sell local band albums etc. Start small and work your way up. You never know what can happen. If you're waiting for someone else to do this, you will be waiting forever.

No. 397399

>>396748
Haha I relate to this because I once wore this neat velvet tip with flare sleeves I thrift3e and I was sweating my butt off in it and I was like never again lol. I kinda go for a similar loon like your picrel when it comes to summer wearing flowy fabrics and making a romantic goth meets boho/hippie type of look

No. 397404

>>395332
Speaking of this, I came across another video of someone giving tips for "goth" fashion and I'm still kinda seeing the same problem. I'll say this, I love the girl's makeup and hair but when it comes to the outfits and whether they look "goth" or not, I feel like most of them didn't really scream "goth" to me personally. At most, I feel like the second outfit she did looked closest to a "goth" look straining into slightly romantic goth though I feel that the spiderweb arm warmers kinda detracted from the look and it would've looked better with either simple lace arm warmers or some black crushed velvet arm warmers. I just feel that the spiderweb ones she used there look too costumey and threw off the look a bit.

That aside, I feel like all the other outfits she did just scream more 2000s Industrial than it does "goth".

No. 397443

File: 1715583199085.jpg (169.49 KB, 736x1103, 1977_westwood.jpg)

>>397404
I don't see too much of stereotypical industrial stuff in that video TBH. She looks like pretty accurate reenactment of trends of the time frame of the late '90 going forward to the 00's.

The separate question is it correct to call D-rings, O-rings and metal eyelets in your clothing "industrial" just because it dominated fashion of rivetheads at some point. It was also generic punk staple too. Not all goths are into flamboyant laces and velvet.

I don't count wearing PVC as industrial as it was part of generic alt fashion and more of direct fetish scene on goth influence of that era as it was also time when there was much more bondage gear than "usually" being worn too.

BTW picrel is stuff Vivienne Westwood been offering in 1977. You see rivets and straps that were popular in the '00s.

But let's assume it was indeed industrial to blame for the rest of this post. I'm not that opposed to such theory, I just don't insist that it is exactly that simple. Honestly speaking there was so much of such industrial influence back in the late '90' and later in the '00s that you could have seen such pieces on people listening to goth. Yes, some of them were into industrial too. It's not rare but not all of them were. IBF also had a lot of "industrialish" influences visible in her earlier wardrobe videos. I have liking of some '00s pieces myself and I'm not too deep into industrial compared to goth.

Also the separate subject is what was popular in given scene in your part of the world as there were and in many cases still are big differences between how "generic average goth" looks in different countries especially over the decades.

That's why the main common denominator of "are you goff or not?" is "are you listening to goth?" in my opinion. Not what you are wearing.

No. 397444

>>397443
Compare with pieces worn in this music video. You can see similar stuff and fabrics.

No. 397491

>>397443
>Honestly speaking there was so much of such industrial influence back in the late '90' and later in the '00s that you could have seen such pieces on people listening to goth.
This is true, I recall The Matrix being a major influence on industrial. Not to mention Dark City and Equilibrium. Movies like Tank Girl, The City of Lost Children and Invisogoth from X-Files were things that inspired the fashion. Aside from that if you listened to Skinny Puppy or Rammstein you would have D-rings on your clothes. They weren't necessarily goth because those plaid skirts ala Clueless had them. It was one way to be kinda alt without giving the 'rents a heart attack.

No. 397567

File: 1715624533483.jpg (120.52 KB, 736x981, 90a0d3652d39b3522a7b11c29f8863…)

>>397443
AYRT and the reason why I think most of her looks look more industrial than "goth" to me is because it makes me remember being in high school in the 2000s (I graduated in 08) and how I fell into the pitfall of thinking that industrial music was goth music when I got on VampireFreaks.net back in like 2002/2003. I didn't know any goths irl and I didn't know what actual goth music was. I was listening to a lot of industrial music at the time with bands like Angelspit, Chiasm, Imperative Reaction, God Module, Psyclon Nine, Alien Vampires, and Grendel to name a few. Anyway it makes me think back when I would browse profiles on Vampirefreaks and how most self-proclaimed goths on their were listening to this music and dressed like they walked out the Matrix or the future. I think I only came across like one or two deathrockers at the time but again, I didn't know that was considered goth and I thought it was just horror punk lol.

It's not so much that I think D-Rings/O-Rings are automatically industrial as I know they were used in punk and can even be used in goth looks but it's just them + the all PVC, vinyl, rubber, etc fetishy looking outfits which make me think Industrial thinking back to those bands I mentioned and the people listening to them and how they wore outfits similar to those like the girl in the video. It just takes me back to that time.

Ultimate I think it's all about how you style things. I do think that leather and PVC + O-Rings can be used for goth looks. One of Siouxsie's looks where she wore that black leather mini skirt sand tall boots with fishnets is a good example (though I think it's the big hair and her way of doing makeup that gives it the "goth" look lol)

>Also the separate subject is what was popular in given scene in your part of the world as there were and in many cases still are big differences between how "generic average goth" looks in different countries especially over the decades.


Like I mentioned, when I was in high school I don't remember seeing any people who looked like trad goth or even romantic goth in the actual sense, I just remember a few nu-metal looking people at most who called themselves goth lol

No. 397654

>>397567
You can look goth wearing a potato bag or even naked. But yea one's perception is highly affected of what could be observed in nearest environment and seen in materials available. I was for a long time thinking that punk hairstyles were only about mohawks and wings. Then I learned that there were also pretty short hairstyles as well as even just long hair.

As for D-rings indeed rivetheads were notorious for sporting them in their wardrobe as a result of their popularity in workwear and military. But they are also present in BDSM wear. BDSM wear is also one of areas where straps are popular.

But generally goth fashion is so wide topic and rich in different trends and inspirations that you can get seriously confused as an outsider seeing one space being shared by people who looks pretty normal just in dark colored regular clothing as well as generic dark "stereotypical punk" looks and some Alien Sex Fiend type "zombie freaks" and some individuals looking like taken from some 19th century (there were also cases of dressing even earlier periods that in my understanding was mainly the US thing if we do not count generic jabot and laced shirts popular in Europe too and some pikes patterns that look like inspired by actual medieval patterns as I mean more general complete looks) reenactment group.

No. 397834

File: 1715682886182.jpg (234 KB, 600x900, 2015-05-22_Viktorianisches_Pic…)

Wave Gothic Treffen is this weekend and I'm so excited nonas! I've wanted to go for like 10 years now and I finally have the chance because my job transferred me to Germany. Diva Destruction is coming out of her hiatus for it!

No. 398002

>>397834
I love that dress, it's kinda Victorian. Have fun at WGT. Freyja is going to be there for meet and greet.

No. 398018

>>397834
Omg I love Victorian gothic clothing. It’s so hard to find pieces that are a) high quality and not tacky looking polyester or whatever and b) don’t have an insane amount of unnecessary ruffles or silly details that aren’t period.

I would wear it every day if I could, the closest I can get is gothic Lolita pieces made of quality cotton. Also it draws a crazy amount of attention irl kek. Sometimes bad sometimes good. Even other goths I see give me looks sometimes kek. But I just love it so much.

No. 398187

>>397399
It just makes sense to wear flowy fabrics in summer. Sometimes I think we pressure ourselves to look goth 24/7. It's fine if people can wear velvet in hot weather. But we don't have to. Goth is about the music and if people want to wear a black tee and jeans, that's cool. If I want to wear bohemian goth clothing in summer, that's cool too. Wearing corsets in the heat screaming I'M MELTING! is optional.

No. 398221

>>397834
>Diva Destruction coming
Ahh that's amazing. You're in for a treat anon, going off what I've seen in videos of them performing live, they sound just as good in person. Have fun!

>>398002
>Freya is gonna be there
After all the controversy going on with her that's being discussed in the altcows threads ,all I can muster is an eye roll but kudos to those who still like her content.

No. 398222

>>398187
Oh for sure, I'm very aware that we don't have to look stereotypical 24/7. Hell at my age (early 30s), I don't really go all out on a daily basis like I did in my early 20s because I know that clothes don't make the goth, it's the music and I still enjoy it. Besides the dark boho look is so fun and forgiving for the summer time so you can't really go wrong there haha.

No. 398420

>>398221
I wasn't a Freya fan, sometimes I watched her videos but never kept up with her life. After she had children her content became boring. I've seen the alt board. Agree that Freya's malingering diagnosis was to fund WGT tickets. It was called and not a surprise when she announced she was going. I still think she doesn't represent the goth community, I just mentioned to nonna that she will be there.

No. 398529

>>398420
Oh okay anon. I admit I used to be a fan of hers in the beginning of her channel but I grew bored of her content before she even had her kids when most of what she would do were just Killstar and Dark-In-Love shills. She's good at displaying clothes but the clothes itself got boring to look at (I prefer thifts tbh) and that was most of the only thing she'd talk about and I eventually got bored and would only watch on occasion.

Ever since she had her kids though, she has gotten so shameless it's embarrassing and I agree, in no way would she be a good representative of the goth scene.

No. 399334

>>398222
>Besides the dark boho look is so fun and forgiving for the summer time so you can't really go wrong there haha.
I agree. At the moment I'm fixing the straps on a thrifted cotton dress. It's a perfect flowy number, but they twisted the straps and it rubs my shoulders. I've been unpicking threads to unwind them and sew them back on. I think I'll add some black lace around the skirt part. Just to make it 'mine'. I love thrifting but kinda worry someone will recognise they donated it. I add different things to it so it's more personal and it gives me something to do.

No. 399539

>>398529
>Ever since she had her kids though, she has gotten so shameless it's embarrassing
Sometimes I would check in to see what she was doing. I was confused because she was with Mr Owl and then I saw her with a German dude. I didn't care about watching earlier videos to find out why. Later on I saw she married him and then she was upset and got divorced. I don't know what happened to her cat. When I checked months later she was back in her country and with Mr Owl again. Same with ToxicTears. Sometimes I'd see what she was up to, but I wasn't subscribed. She had broken up with Jake but I found out 2 months after. Then I started to read the alt boards. I didn't know Freyja was like this. I felt sorry for Kaya when she did her video telling her side of the story. Then I read she was living in a London squat when she has a house. They give goth a bad name. Because they are influencers people look at them as the goth brand. They see their behaviour and think All Goths Are Like This. They won't look at other people with channels who aren't like that. It's annoying that they are misrepresenting the subculture.

No. 399615

>>399539
Freya has a long trail of shameless antics tbh. From things like her wedding scam that she used the money to migrate to Germany and to travel parts of Europe during all of 2016 the wedding was set back in 2015). Her relationship with Mr Owl where she cheated on him with the German guy (his name is Matthias btw) and the belief on the board is that she got with him to get a Visa into Germany but as soon as she got there, she did not even bother trying to learn how to speak German which made navigating places there difficult for her unless she was with Matthias.
The rumor was that Matthias ended up cheating on Freya which is what caused them to split and Greya goes running back to Mr Owl who took her back.

No. 401016

File: 1716735799904.png (2.98 MB, 2160x2441, balenciaga_xD.png)

As for pointy shoes even Balenciaga has them in offer. It's literally hard to not find any pointy shoes nowadays. You have to make an extra strong effort to not find any in normie shops.

No. 401021

File: 1716735962858.jpg (683.64 KB, 2160x2441, balenciaga_trying_2b_punk.jpg)

>>401016
Don't bother trying to find price. They are not worth what producer sells them for.

No. 401024

File: 1716736317787.webp (142.03 KB, 1094x1237, paristexas.webp)

Kinda interesting looking motor boots in vein of cowboy boots – stiletto hybrid

No. 401059

File: 1716745945974.jpg (859.02 KB, 1085x1200, Rodarte Fall 2023.jpg)

>>401021
The boots are basically haute goth. Balenciaga trying to be punk is hilarious. Completely defeats the idea of punk, since punks are anti establishment. Pic rel is when the Fashion Industry does goth. Too damned expensive for what they are worth, but who says we can't take inspiration from it? Plus it doesn't hurt when high street shops try to mimic those looks. They sell it for cheaper than name brand clothes and don't have Balenciaga's rep.

No. 401078

>>401016
I love pointy shoes so much. All kinds, flat, high heel, etc.

No. 401083

>>401059
Balanciaga rips rich fucks off who are fighting for their crap with higher and higher bids. I fucking respect that. They will sell them literal trash bags for few thousands. Westwood was doing same thing with her Sex boutique but had not as rich clientele.

>>401078
I must get myself some New Rocks one day with metallic heels. Would look rad with chains and jewellery. Majority of my shoes are "commonly available in normie shops" stuff.

No. 401091

Posting songs that make me go ARHDHHDSJHDJSHJGHGFKJGF GRRRR GRRRR WOOF WOOF WOOF

No. 401092


No. 401093

File: 1716756796128.jpg (56.75 KB, 564x700, kiss.jpg)


No. 401106

>>401091
I fucking love their music. Just learned about This Cold Night last month. Dead Cold Autumn, 90° and Black Cherry are the best. Thank you for sharing Black Cathedral. I feel like Dracula's new room mate.

No. 401203

File: 1716781060742.jpg (285.41 KB, 1575x1618, oldschool.jpg)


No. 402821


No. 403372

File: 1717503999439.jpg (474.37 KB, 720x1153, Screenshot_20240604_142519_Tik…)

>"look at all these non goth bands ive seen thats why im more goth than you"

kek

No. 403373

>>403372
this shit is better than """""e goth mommy gf"""""s pretending to be goth because they listened to bauhaus and the sisters of mercy once because at least you can prove that they're full of shit

No. 403471

>>403372
>>403373
Honestly both are cringe though I'll give you the annoying goth mommy bullshit because it's practically everywhere on the internet.

No. 403616

Let's get ready to rumble! GONG

No. 403617

>>403616
BTW dude's obsesion with claiming that goff has to be anticapitalist is hilarious - it's the same dude reviewing pikes. The most capitalist footwear that this subculture produced.

No. 403618

>>403617
>>403616

BTW Tim Burton did attend goth concerts. He even participated in video clip of goth rock band.

No. 403620

>>403617
But he in general is obsessed by claiming that goth has to be a certain political line oriented. The problem is that reality of multiple historic goth scenes in various countries shows generic diversity of political views of members and many scenes are not strangers to antisocialist messages like for example most of scenes in Soviet Union and satellite countries.

No. 403644

>>403616
tldw but why would gen z even be plausible competition for older goths when gen z goth is so thoroughly derivative

No. 403662

>>403644
No idea, the video is not even exactly about this

No. 403692

>>403372
she has a point, i'm fucking tired of the microbangs big septum black lipstick corset mini skirt and bell sleeves type of goth look all over instagram. and if you don't dress in that exact way, then you aren't goth enough. zoomers aren't original for shit.

No. 404088

>>403616
>>403617
I personally think Cemetery Confessions is ridiculous with his whole "goth is politics" and "goth is philosophy" bullshit. Dude, it's a music-based scene, it's not that serious kek. I would understand if he were saying that being darkly-inclined is a mindset (which it is) but he doesn't do this, he takes it a step too far into retarded territory and it's why I've always been put off by his content which sucks because he's one of the only goth podcasts that actually engages in interesting topics.

>>403618
Has he really? Do you remember what concerts he's attended? I don't doubt that Tim may have been a goth in his youth, the way he styled his hair and his design for Edward Scissorhands looked like he took inspiration from trad goth (which would track since he was around during the 80s) but I never could find sources on the goth music he liked and he and Helena Bonham Carter have said they don't consider themselves goth.

No. 404089

>>403644
FFR. Millennials did have goff poseurs in them (need I remind about the "Mallgoths" lol) but Gen Z have been even worse since a lot of them like to treat goth like it's literally a costume to film for their Tiktok.

>>403692
Same tbh. And then they call it "romantic goth" and it's like, no the fuck it isn't kek. Maybe I'm being harsh and have a preference for what 90s and early 00s romantic-goth looked like posted above in this thread but this look you described is so accurate. It's overdone and not unique or interesting because they all do the same thing, mostly inspired from scouring Pinterest.

No. 404363

File: 1717787551008.jpg (23.22 KB, 500x334, burton_and_witching_hour.jpg)


No. 404364

>>404363
Also few years ago he participated in this video clip

No. 404367

>>404088
Left leaning people within punk subgenres have tendency to claiming subgenres or punk as whole as an obvious manifestation of exactly their political views. I'm not a left winger neither feel any need to claim that whole movement is everywhere and always "politically aligned with me". I'm also not as right wing as some bands from my region of Europe are. Just a generic goth who is skeptical of anitcapitalism because my region has seen how alternatives to capitalism "work" in real life and get pissed when westerner lefty goths are trying to diminish genocides done by Soviet Union. But that's a pretty average characteristic of population here. I'm also aware that there are many regions with different dominant approaches to politics which also affects goth scene members of scenes there. I have also never read anything by Edgar Alan Poe other than the Raven and that was many many years after I started listening to gothic rock. Generally English speaking sphere that "debates about goth" has tendency to ignore scenes outside the US and UK. At best they mention existence of German scene because of WGT. The further attention moves from the US/UK scenes the harder it gets to defend "goth is more than music based and political in a specific way" approach.

No. 404373

>>404089
I am personally allergic to goth done as unironic "dark melancholic romanticism serious business". I mean here the type of goth where lyrics about life seen as a dark tomb full of suffering and constant pain are one hundred serious and unironic done by individuals who claim that they have to not smile at all and that they suffer 24/7 and who reacts like religious zealots to sacrilege when you parody their beloved lyrics. A lot of these types used to sport "romantic goth" attires of the era you mentioned. They were also most notorious adopters of term goth causing many oldtimers to cringe when they heard someone calling them goths because they did not want to be associated with these "seriously suffering crypt dwellers without any sense of humor and self awareness".

No. 404382

>>404089
>but this look you described is so accurate. It's overdone and not unique or interesting because they all do the same thing, mostly inspired from scouring Pinterest.
Kek, it is inspired by Pinterest. Every time I go into my account they suggest that crap and call it Romantic goth. I've tried to search Pinterest for 90s-2000s romantic goth and very few images turn up. They show me blue haired models wearing lace tights, a mini skirt and corset. Even the make up isn't what I consider romantic. The pics I shared up thread can't be found unless you knew the clothing company. Thankfully people saved them because Gen Z should take notes. Everything about their style is lazy. There's no thought to layering jewelry or mix and matching fabric, they just buy crap from Killstar and post to Instagram.

No. 404384

>>404363
>>404364
AYRT, Thanks for the context. I had o idea about this, that's pretty cool lol

>>404367
That's fair. Honestly I am left-leaning American but I'm not a bleeding heart liberal like Cemetery Confessions and it's people like him that annoy me when it comes to fellow leftists. It's probably that I'm also not someone who buys into gender ideology as I think it's all bullshit, I don't think white people should feel awful for being white just because of what happened in the past, and I'm not anticaptitalist neither because for better or worse, it's the only structure that really works at this time. I do think workers should be treated fairly and paid fairly and I do think the elite shouldn't keep raising prices for working class people whom we already are barely scraping by but I don't think doing away with capitalism is the best idea to go with. I just say all this to explain my position in terms of politics but more importantly, I don't bring this crap into goth.
And you're right that when goth is talked about, it's mostly the US, UK, and Germany, I'm guilty of this myself but it's mainly because it just doesn't feel like goth is as big in a lot of other places and yes, I have seen how some places have a very loose definition of what goth is where it's anything dark and obviously I don't agree with that but I digress.

No. 404390

File: 1717795961348.jpg (48.2 KB, 714x858, 4430aac8e3f6b21b42e321ffe3b980…)

>>404373
Haha same. I love REAL romantic goth but I don't take it too seriously myself. I just think that when the style is truly done well like it was in the 90s and early 00s, it can be so beautiful to look at and I love dressing in the style as well. I never bought into the having to act like your depressed and melancholic, it's funny to me when people did that.

>>404382
Same anon. Whenever I look for "romantic goth" on Pinterest, I see the same shit you've seen and it's so annoying. I shared some pics up above as well (I was the one who mentioned & shared Rose Mortem) and I've been able to find some photos of actual romantic goths from the 90s and early 2000s on Tumblr with blogs dedicated to sharing old photos of goths and I agree, Gen Z could learn a thing or two from them like we millennials did. You're absolutely right that a lot of Gen Z's "goth" outfits lack creativity and thought and they all just blend together and look the same. Same hair, same makeup style (the overly done Trad/Deathrock style) and big stompy platforms. You're right, they just buy from Killstar, Shein, Temu, or Romwe and call it a day there, it's so boring to look at but you know that these people don't genuinely care about goth and only care about their goff persona to get followers on their Instagram or TikTok because if they actually were interested, I'm sure their fashion would reflect it.

I'm getting tired of these people saying things like "Goth fashion doesn't have to be expensive". No shit, many of us oldies thrifted or worked with basic cheap clothing found in department stores and it cost a fraction of what you see on Killstar and we still managed to look just fine without going broke kek.

No. 404396

>>403692
Her point makes no sense bc goth is music based and she just listed a whole bunch of non goth bands, being a fan of those bands doesnt make her goth at all

No. 404482

>>404396
This. I hope she was being facetious because if she really thinks that what she said there was a good point, she's delusional and it was a tone-deaf point.

No. 404483

File: 1717816246741.png (2.03 MB, 1037x1180, looks1.png)

>>401059
right, i get your issue with these huge fashion houses turning goth into another kind of commodity to sell back to people but it is refreshing for me to see high fashion gothic looks, and it makes sense to add an haute couture element to the subculture. the lace/latex/structured elements to gothic fashion are also uniquely expensive to manufacture and tailor well. i would rather balenciaga or whatever big house slop to create well designed and high quality garments that are inaccessible, yes, to actual goths who can't afford it, but to use as inspiration to then buy from small and local designers or to source pieces individually to simulate the same effect. imo killstar and dollskill are worse when they do the whole mass produced and even MORE contrived slop to sell back to working class ppl, everyone ends up wearing 'the gap' goth and i don't want to see that shit at the goth club. or anywhere for that matter lmao

No. 404503

>>404367
Usually such people make some of the most banal garbage too, which is to be expected from such boring people who can't think outside of generic categories.

No. 404541

>>404384
>it just doesn't feel like goth is as big in a lot of other places

To know about many other places you often have to know language of these places. There is language barrier which also covers terminology like cases of German where goth scene member is called "grufti" [Germany aslo has/had own unique names on members of many other subcultures]. And also tendency of these scenes to mostly communicate within own linguistic sphere.

I can tell you that goth is noticeable in Poland [also at the streets]. Some cities could have goth related events (gigs, dance nights) few days in a row (yes, I have seen cases of two different dance nights organized one day after another in same city sometimes even in less fortunate cases they can happen on the same day) outside of festivals. Recent years also brought many new local bands.

There are communities in Czechia and Slovakia, Ukraine which in recent years created many new bands.

I have no idea how things look in France regarding events as I don't speak French [francophones are notorious for barely being active in English speaking regions of the internet] but amount of active bands and regular goths making it to festivals in Poland suggest that it's pretty decently sized scene too. BTW Corpus Delicti reunited recently.

>>404483
I rarely see anything interesting done by these big fashion designers in "goth". Even practical aspects aside like you cannot dance in many of that stuff from 1st photo and the 2nd photo is mostly generic black dresses and only 1st model in upper left corner is wearing something that is semi interesting to me.

>>404390
The skill that many younger goths do not work on is mixing stuff together and building a decent amount of "glue" in their wardrobe in form of accessories that allows mixing different stuff and adding goth/generic punk feel to it. They go for "designer" clothing from brands instead of building a collection of jewellery, belts, wristbands, scarves, safety pins, bands pins etc. first that they can use to add character to even plain clothing (not even necessarily black). Heck also replacing buttons like normal regular shirt buttons with for example silvery or brass metal buttons can add a lot of character to plain normie piece. It's cool if you are just starting experiments and you can still use your current wardrobe in alt outfit. [see photo >>401203] As for mixing different fabrics together like it's done in the photo you posted it's a lost art even in general fashion.

One can also make a point that even just makeup and the way you style your hair could be on it's own enough to make your outfit goth no matter what you wear.

No. 404570

File: 1717856365644.jpg (1.24 MB, 1356x1400, Ann Demeulemeester 2010.jpg)

>>404483
>everyone ends up wearing 'the gap' goth and i don't want to see that shit at the goth club. or anywhere for that matter lmao
LOL @The Gap goth. that's exactly what it is. Haute goth can be inspirational, especially if you need to look 'smart' for an interview or make a good impression. We dont need to sacrifice our style for the corporate world. Balance is key to looking chic, not shit. You can easily turn a black number into something professional. These days it's considered a power color. If it's done right it can make you look serious instead of silly.

No. 404578

File: 1717857899945.jpeg (47.58 KB, 428x640, 39 Photographs Capture the Str…)

>>404570
I like how the basic jeans and shirt when paired with accessories can make an outfit. But these accessories have to create a proper impression, just some simple chain that every e-girl/e-boy sports nowadays is not cutting it.

No. 404579

File: 1717858323041.jpg (62.15 KB, 500x745, tumblr_mzgqr1oM9r1qex2zzo1_500…)

>>404578
Even just an "out of place in normie sense" belt on top of a normie coord might be enough. It's a matter of accent.

No. 404582

File: 1717858442609.jpeg (15.68 KB, 236x273, Punk Rock.jpeg)


No. 404584

File: 1717858767595.jpeg (269.1 KB, 820x1276, 164835-1413261035689-820x1276.…)

http://cvltnation.com/striking-portraits-of-from-1980s-italian-goth-clubs/

Photos of some people from Italian club scene back in the '80s. Pretty minimalistic and created out of normal everyday stuff with minor modifications.

No. 404586

File: 1717859259651.jpg (128.03 KB, 465x726, dino5pnoamdopgna.jpg)

>>404584
Layering different fabrics and metal jewellery and generic chains is a stuff that many modern goths can benefit from instead of buying yet another overpriced killstar crap. Addiction to these brands that many people have nowadays create impression thet when you visit a club you arrived at some kind of "goth factory" where goths are mass produced using just few patterns applied over and over.

No. 404602

>>404570
I dress like this lol

No. 404604

>>404602
Pix or didn't habben

No. 404615

File: 1717873180630.png (828.54 KB, 1280x720, Angela Benedict-12.png)

>>404541
Oh sure, I can believe that there is some rumblings of goth happening in Poland, I've actually came across 2 new goth bands from there in my music digging. I can believe that for sure and that is genuinely cool.

>The skill that many younger goths do not work on is mixing stuff together and building a decent amount of "glue" in their wardrobe in form of accessories that allows mixing different stuff and adding goth/generic punk feel to it. They go for "designer" clothing from brands instead of building a collection of jewellery, belts, wristbands, scarves, safety pins, bands pins etc. first that they can use to add character to even plain clothing (not even necessarily black). Heck also replacing buttons like normal regular shirt buttons with for example silvery or brass metal buttons can add a lot of character to plain normie piece. It's cool if you are just starting experiments and you can still use your current wardrobe in alt outfit. [see photo >>401203] As for mixing different fabrics together like it's done in the photo you posted it's a lost art even in general fashion.

Definitely agree, I don't see this mixing done neither and I think that's the consistent key thing that makes gen-z "goth" outfits look so bland and uninteresting to look at. Even if they have the sharpest trad/deathrock makeup, it doesn't translate to much interest when their outfits are just "goth in a box" like and also again, most of them are doing the same makeup anyway.

I'm sitting here looking at my wall hooks of all the different necklaces and bracelets I've collected over the last 2 decades and how when I really look at my own wardrobe, I don't have a lot of fancy clothes but still manage to create some imo, nice looking outfits when I add my accessories to it as well as mixing fabrics.

I think this is why I enjoy Angela Benedict's videos because she's one of the only goth channels that actually still does that and even though she has shilled in the past, she at least would put something unique of her old clothes and/or accessories to the outfit.

>One can also make a point that even just makeup and the way you style your hair could be on it's own enough to make your outfit goth no matter what you wear.

So true. Back when I had long hair that I would tease out and just leave in, I'd wake up in the morning and look in the mirror just in my pajamas and no makeup and my hair looked like a bats nest and I felt like I still looked "goth" in that state kek.

No. 404644

>>404390
This picture rings all the Romantic goth bells! I love that she's wearing a lace night dress because I used to do that. The make up is reminding me of Nancy in The Craft(I know, I know), but we didn't have many movie inspirations back then. Goth still wasn't that trendy; you saw it but not everywhere like it is today. Every movie or TV show has to have the obligatory goth outcast.
I remember Tosh from Urban Legends was a bit Romantic, I liked her lace gloves and layers of necklaces. The dark purple lipstick was great paired with the glitter eyeshadow. I wouldn't wear that eyeshadow now, but maybe a shimmery purple or grey would work.

>"Goth fashion doesn't have to be expensive". No shit, many of us oldies thrifted or worked with basic cheap clothing found in department stores and it cost a fraction of what you see on Killstar and we still managed to look just fine

That's the thing; they don't thrift, they think it's below them or they worry it won't look goth enough. You have to make it goth yourself. It's way better than the cookie cutter Killstar crap (say that 5 times fast, lol) and original. Sometimes I would save up my money to buy a really expensive corset or skirt. Mostly I saved money so I could go into the city. The thrift shops there had more choice and I could find unique items. It's a shame Gen Z is so shallow, they miss the opportunity to DIY and be creative.

>>404615
>I don't have a lot of fancy clothes but still manage to create some imo, nice looking outfits when I add my accessories to it as well as mixing fabrics.
I've got a long black dress and wear necklaces as belts. A sturdy necklace around the waist looks cool, esp. if you wear long necklaces or rosaries with it. I can make a plain outfit look witchy with just a few accessories and rings.

No. 404649

File: 1717884223153.jpg (55.97 KB, 438x627, d1584d56caa398e99ae13ae82fe671…)

>>404373
>I mean here the type of goth where lyrics about life seen as a dark tomb full of suffering and constant pain are one hundred serious and unironic done by individuals who claim that they have to not smile at all and that they suffer 24/7
Your comment reminded me of Andrea from the TV show Daria. She definitely had the 'My life is a dark room' persona. I think it was done to be ironic, most of us don't project Eternal Suffering My Darling Annabelle Lee, kek.

No. 404654

File: 1717885857113.jpg (155.85 KB, 1775x2560, Matt-Black-Silver-Necklace_2-s…)

Pic rel dressing up an outfit with various accessories. The keychains are a creative way to add more without overdoing it.

No. 404655

>>404649
I had in mind something like Lydia Deetz if she had no sense of humor and was a vocalist of a band singing pompous graphomania grade lyrics about suffering and evils of the world, being an outcast etc but their lack of irony or any talent for lyrics whatsoever makes the final effect indigestible. Kinda akin to these goff poems that been a meme decades ago but done by grown up person who is writing them unironically and seriously unable to be self critical in even slightest way regarding final product of own poetic attempts.

No. 404659

>>404655
>Kinda akin to these goff poems that been a meme decades ago but done by grown up person who is writing them unironically and seriously
Lol, I just thought of Jake Munro when you said that, kekk

No. 404661

File: 1717887661163.jpg (47.74 KB, 600x757, NoelFuchs.jpg)

>>404654
I personally see use of _many_ small decorative details in male outfit as problematic. One one side they make guy look bigger than he is on the other hand make look very busy as many males are indeed far from slim twink body type meaning they have significantly larger area of body than females as a background for jewellery making small details look even more microscopic. IMHO dude in your photo would benefit from few more massive sized accents like bigger belt or/and larger beads. The more muscular guy the balance IMHO should go more toward bigger sized details.

Picrel - Noel Fuchs (Doctor Mu) was sporting a well balanced sizewise for his body type mix of numerous accessories.

No. 404662

File: 1717887685816.jpg (42.61 KB, 600x555, 7f0c7a0e450d03d1756408eeb25c65…)


No. 404666

File: 1717888692059.jpg (141.23 KB, 736x1104, da580ef4de0c11dcf2a659a84909e0…)

Also found some grufti dude - he has big sized accents that are creating some "focal points". Their size and contrast of metallic on black takes most attention making smaller details look more balanced and gives harmony. You can go very decorative without looking busy if you master balancing such details as size and contrast.

No. 404816

File: 1717954661110.jpg (215.33 KB, 1920x1281, COVER_IMAGE_6a732025-3d3b-485e…)

https://www.killstar.com/blogs/journal/romantic-goth-edit

Rolling my eyes over Killstar's "romantic goth" article. Of course mentioning generic bands The Cure, Bauhaus and Type O Negative that was referred upthread. Then topping off the post with quasi-moody air brushed zoomers pouting at the camera. The non ironic We're Cool Because Our Clothes Are Expensive attitude. And mentioned by nonna >>404390 Same make-up style. I don't see anything that signals Romanticgoth, I see Nu Goth hipsters. The Instagram-ready poses plus overpriced cheap clothing and jewelry screams Try Hard Poseur. The last photo feels like the popular kids ripped off the alt scene just to prove they can "do I better". /rant

No. 404820

>>404816
Out of curiosity - anyone tried commenting? Would be hilarious if several people tried to comment but their comments never get published.

No. 404845

>>404820
idk but after their scams, I'm sure they with hold comments for approval. Many goths have a low opinion of Killstar. Basically they confirm what anons have said
https://www.reddit.com/r/goth/comments/khx9uu/your_opinions_on_killstar/

No. 404859

>>404644
>This picture rings all the Romantic goth bells! I love that she's wearing a lace night dress because I used to do that. The make up is reminding me of Nancy in The Craft(I know, I know), but we didn't have many movie inspirations back then. Goth still wasn't that trendy; you saw it but not everywhere like it is today.
Agreed, it's one of my favorite looks that she's done, screaming romantic goth realness and I love it. And as far as Nancy goes, I'm willing to give it a pass for the reasons you said but also because you can tell that they really took some inspiration from actual goths.

>I remember Tosh from Urban Legends was a bit Romantic, I liked her lace gloves and layers of necklaces. The dark purple lipstick was great paired with the glitter eyeshadow. I wouldn't wear that eyeshadow now, but maybe a shimmery purple or grey would work.

I remember that character and I agree, she definitely had some romantic goth vibes goign on and I liked her outfit up until we see her get up and we see she's not wearing anything under her lace dress and it was clearly to sexualize herto the male audience which is just skeevy. And there's also the fact that the music they had her listening to was Rob Zombie music when they could've easily had her listening to actual goth music like Rosetta Stone, The Wake, or Switchblade Symphony. It was 1998 so there was plenty of goth music to choose from by then but ignoring the misused music and the sexualiztion, her makeup and the top half of her outfit was on-point for romantic realness.

>That's the thing; they don't thrift, they think it's below them or they worry it won't look goth enough. You have to make it goth yourself. It's way better than the cookie cutter Killstar crap (say that 5 times fast, lol) and original. Sometimes I would save up my money to buy a really expensive corset or skirt. Mostly I saved money so I could go into the city. The thrift shops there had more choice and I could find unique items. It's a shame Gen Z is so shallow, they miss the opportunity to DIY and be creative.

I agree all around. The thrifted looks always look 10x better than the "cookie cutter Killstar crap" (lol). And I would also save up money for boots and skirts as well but for the most, it was thrifting or department stores.
It's just a shame because thrifting can be fun. Just put on some earphones and go through a sorting adventure, sure it's not guaranteed that you'll always find something but that's part of the thrill of the hunt and I feel like Gen Z is missing out on that kind of adventurous feeling.

>I've got a long black dress and wear necklaces as belts. A sturdy necklace around the waist looks cool, esp. if you wear long necklaces or rosaries with it. I can make a plain outfit look witchy with just a few accessories and rings.

Oh nice, that sounds awesome. I kind of do a similar thing where I have a really long necklace that I sometimes wear as a belt and I do the whole rosary thing as well serving some Nancy downs goodness and I'll just pair a black tank with a black skirt over some black tights and lace kimono and I'm good to go, all of these clothes not breaking the bank at all and aren't Killstar or some other big brand kek.

No. 404861

>>404659
Only difference is Jake is a poser and Lydia is goth-ish (it really would've been cool if we saw her jamming to The Cure or something lol).

No. 404869

File: 1717968332204.jpg (33.6 KB, 500x685, 68687c8fb40f61e26863e9d9af8117…)

>>404816
As a romantic goth fan, this was just garbage. Even with the music, why didn't they bring up Suspiria, Violet Tears, or Faith and the Muse. Ethereal wave is the background for romantic goth so you'd think they'd mention bands that reflect with the feeling of that style.

And I agree that the looks were exactly what we criticize her. Super bland, uninspired, and boring cookie cutter crap that looks try hard at best.

No. 404878


No. 404879


No. 404886

>>404879
>>404878
Ukrainian ethereal with strong folk influences from the '90s. Both projects with same vocalist.

No. 404888

Mizar - band from Macedonia that started back in the '80s when Yugoslavia was still a thing.

No. 404891

Padot na Vizantja - another band from Balkans that started back in the '80s. Also with folk influences and byzantine Orthodox singing influences. Dude behind it was also active in Mizar

No. 404893

>>404879
у вас гарний смак

No. 405010

File: 1718025842885.jpg (36.92 KB, 298x600, b7a6570734a5bda50f4d7197335052…)

>>404869
>As a romantic goth fan, this was just garbage.
That was my thought when I read it. If zoomers find this board, it's important for them to know that Killstar is not romantic goth.

>Ethereal wave is the background for romantic goth so you'd think they'd mention bands that reflect with the feeling of that style.

Right? They chose Type O Negative. Really? The lyrics are moody but that's not my first choice. What about Dead Can Dance? Lycia, Mors Syphilitica, Ordo Funebris, Narsilion, Sopor Aeternus.
Bauhaus is ok but overplayed. Maybe we should compile a list of bands for Gen Z.

No. 405078

Ukrainian band Skryabin been in early days inspired by The Cure type sound and was also wandering into regions pretty close to reggae. In later decades it went into more generic rock regions. If you want the new wave sound era stuff look for albums up to the mid '90s. Many songs have swings of mood from happy to gloomy and back.

No. 405084

File: 1718042846513.jpg (972 KB, 2848x4272, UkrainianEthnoGoth.jpg)

>>296194
>I love the idea of adding non-Western cultural elements to goth.

You can add whatever you want

No. 405089

File: 1718043655848.jpg (83.08 KB, 570x855, 8220a769c7551aa6e87e019c15dce0…)

From Romania to Balkans in many countries still survived many types of geometric and floral folk embroidery. In some of them black linen is one of traditional colors.

No. 405091

File: 1718043985247.jpg (260.13 KB, 736x1041, 37a8aa65a0381a206b5b82709488b9…)

Kate from Van Helsing movie had folk elements in costume design like shirt and jacket.

BTW if anyone tries mixing white fabric with leather - make sure you have some isolation between leather and your white stuff as unfortunately many leather items tend to stain white fabrics in situation of close contact. Which sucks.

No. 405093

File: 1718044146014.jpg (63.49 KB, 631x450, 4ae4ffa0220fcfecdbe236fab1119b…)


No. 405099

File: 1718044596365.jpg (72.83 KB, 338x450, af37364a8edf211c5f70e162012f4a…)

>>405089
>From Rmania to Balkans
Dang it, It was supposed to be "from Scandinavia to Balkans". Posting some Scandinavian embroidery as a penalty.

No. 405100

File: 1718044705380.jpg (84.05 KB, 480x622, 3fad0db9190b1fda39b746217c746d…)


No. 405102

File: 1718045109126.jpg (435.17 KB, 1145x1600, p Hallingdal.JPG)

Folk stuff from Europe is inspirational as heck.

No. 405155

File: 1718059579441.jpg (68.93 KB, 581x720, 99d7834cbe2dab4b683ead43cb6e0e…)

Since we're posting pics with non Western elements, Muslims wearing ethnic goth but keeping it within the limits.

No. 405157

File: 1718059876023.jpg (47.17 KB, 500x625, 093a332ec8f4fb35297a2cdfdededf…)

Black henna is one way to add something non Western. Although there is a caution that black henna can be irritating. Second option: buy temporary tattoos applied with water if you're worried about it.

No. 405237

File: 1718091937371.jpg (29.92 KB, 355x550, e60fd875e2cf9514a7536fff485728…)

>>405010
>That was my thought when I read it. If zoomers find this board, it's important for them to know that Killstar is not romantic goth.
Agree all around. Zoomers should understand that it's totally possible to make actual romantic goth-inspired looks with affordable clothing and all that you need to know is how to choose the right fabrics and once you get that down, you're good to go. Just stop buying overpriced Killstar clothes, it's not a romantic goth shop.

>Right? They chose Type O Negative. Really? The lyrics are moody but that's not my first choice. What about Dead Can Dance? Lycia, Mors Syphilitica, Ordo Funebris, Narsilion, Sopor Aeternus. Bauhaus is ok but overplayed.

Yeah those bands would've been perfect too. I like Type O but they're not a goth band (and I'm getting tired of people labeling them as such).

> Maybe we should compile a list of bands for Gen Z.

That'd be cool. Just please don't put Depeche Mode & Tears for Fears in the list kek.

No. 405240

File: 1718094499736.jpg (104.42 KB, 736x1097, Koviak.jpg)

Anyone knows if John Koviak is still participating in the scene? Just curious if the most famous "Polish goth" (he was born in Poland and his family emigrated to the US when he was still a toddler) is still active.

No. 405241

File: 1718094932958.jpg (123.74 KB, 1000x1000, westernbootsskull.jpg)

>>405155
This made me look for Western (as in Wild West) stuff with skulls. Interesting.

No. 405242

File: 1718095016896.jpg (1.82 MB, 3934x3561, 2011_NYR_02629_1829_000(a_pair…)


No. 405244

File: 1718095094836.jpg (91.23 KB, 570x1131, 554ba8e3fc670232e487600aec2180…)

>>405242
And spider/cobweb patterns

No. 405245

File: 1718095235490.jpg (251.33 KB, 1306x979, cowboybootpurse.jpg)

TIL cowboy boot purse is a thing

No. 405246

File: 1718095508110.jpg (210.42 KB, 1500x1500, 11e7bbdf35afdf24c0f27c18fd8795…)

I must say that as an European I like the level of decorative that the US cowboy boots reached.

No. 405248

File: 1718095884831.jpeg (188.06 KB, 768x1024, ea4449c948c1975385cd712fe54b-3…)

That reminded me about pointy boots of Carpathian highlanders, it comes out that there are producers of them making black ones

No. 405249

File: 1718095957257.jpg (21.08 KB, 300x274, hutsul-leather-postoly-2452226…)


No. 405250

File: 1718096124560.jpg (34.94 KB, 380x399, SlovakKrpce.jpg)

>>405249
BTW shoes can be pretty easily repainted black with black stain you mostly have to remove existing finish like waxes etc and then stain and reapply some finish - et voila you have black shoes

No. 405323

>>405240
I was just wondering that a few weeks ago and I tried to search him up. I couldn't find any up to date socials of his. He had a Facebook but hasn't been active since 2012 and last I heard, he was married and had a kid. I saw a comment saying that he's not really active in the music scene anymore.

No. 405360

File: 1718139079506.jpg (306.7 KB, 1386x2048, ed6419b1014cd1ccfdff9930b503d6…)

Romantic goth music.

Like nonna said, Ethereal Wave is the background for Romantic goth. It had its peak in the 1990s-2000s. Here are some bands I've selected.
Love Spirals Downwards
Miranda Sex Garden
Lycia
Claire Voyant
Narsilion
Love Is Colder Than Death
Dead Can Dance(their older music)
All My Faith Lost
Ordo Funebris
Mors Syphilitica
Autumn's Grey Solace
Sopor Aeternus
Black Tape For A Blue Girl (seen as the epitome of Ethereal Wave but I prefer other bands)
Aythis
Artesia (considered Darkwave/Atmospheric)

No. 405362

File: 1718140373507.jpg (282.46 KB, 1184x1574, 2a165414640a7c66f22442248a3fb3…)

Other music I listen to (not really Ethereal Wave)
Kælan Mikla
Trees Of Eternity
The Changelings
The 3rd And The Mortal
Tristania (their older albums)
Wardruna (creepy pagan music)

No. 405369

File: 1718142719299.jpg (67.91 KB, 507x960, tumblr_584aabf0d86a5853320746d…)

>>405360
(adding some more to your list)

Faith and the Muse
This Ascension
Autumn Tears
Switchblade Symphony (Serpentine Gallery, mostly darkwave but I think the tone can fit ethereal)
The Shroud
Cocteau Twins (Head Over Heels album)
Alucarda
The Machine in the Garden

No. 405429

File: 1718167252489.jpg (21.38 KB, 460x434, rose.jpg)

>>396055
Late as fuck but
> do people really think Strawberry Switchblade are goth?
Tiktokfags claim they are goth like there is no tomorrow. It genuinely drives me insane and makes me doubt they have listened to a single song, not even their songs with themes like death sound goth in the SLIGHTEST. Even fashion-wise, they are definitely more nw, they definitely influenced a lot of people, and referred to themselves as the brides of Robert Smith so likely wanted that image.

In saying that, I biasedly consider Rose Mcdowall goth, her individual work isn't really but I think some neofolk songs and elements are definitely gothic, and she has done a lot of work with DI6, Current 93 and has a cover of a song from the Wicker Man (very gothic horror IMO).

She also dressed a lot more gothic outside of SS, I think her musical work outside of SS could be considered gothic but seeing videos like "People say goths listen to scary music but this is goth music tehe!!" with Ecstasy/ Apple of my Eye in the background makes me sick to my stomach. They're calling SS goth everywhere nonas. I cant take it I really cant.

No. 405430

>>405429
Agree with you 100% , but also wanna add Rose's solo project Sorrow for consideration. I do consider that goth. very pagan and introspective ethereal hypnotic aspects

No. 405431

File: 1718167587258.mp4 (2.52 MB, 576x1024, awesomeanddank.mp4)

>>405429
Samefag but I have seen SO many videos like vidrel. This as over 100k likes, do these people not hear the song they're playing and look at the words? Do they understand anything? Do they think for one second? Or is it just le tik tok said this song is goth it must be goth hehhe! Yes I need to calm down but they don't get Rose like I do. They never will

No. 405432

>>405430
Thank you nona I hadn't heard of Sorrow!! By solo work I meant cut with the cake knife but I will definitely look into Sorrow now

No. 405445

>>405429
Fucking thank you anon, I've noticed this too and I say this as someone who likes some of Strawberry Switchblade's music. They are certainly not goth in the slightest and I can't fathom how these tards think that, have these people not actually listened to goth music to understand what the sound is because if they did, they'd see that SS sound like usual 80s style new wave and synth pop music.
It's pretty much how these idiots also put Depeche Mode and Dead or Alive as "goth music" which is just inaccurate.

No. 405448

File: 1718178166802.jpg (135.77 KB, 852x942, cb22d14a6fef2820c6be09ee88ef41…)

Yes, it was already explained. You can find many photos of Rose McDowall dressed in stereotypical 80's dark alternative outfits. You can also find photos of both SS members wearing black laced stuff that would not be out of place in goth clubs. If zoomers want to credit them for something - they should credit them for influencing Japanese lolita street fashion, including gothic lolita.

No. 405449

File: 1718178205040.png (724.72 KB, 679x848, media-274572525.png)


No. 405454

>>405432
Sorrow IMHO is a neofolk/ethereal hybrid. As for bands that Rose cooperated with Into A Circle is probably most guitar based ROCK band. Other bands were mostly closer to industrial and neofolk.

No. 405455

>>405431
It's not that uncommon to hear general 80's pop played at goth club nights in Europe but that's not a claim that such songs are goth. No idea if that has anything to do with origin of such tiktok claims.

No. 405526

>>405455
I believe the zoomers are being serious tbh. When you see bands like Strawberry Switchblade, New Order, and Depeche Mode classified as "goth music" in their obnoxious uwu quirky tiktok clips of what "goth music actually is", I'm pretty sure they're being serious kek.

No. 405532

>>405526
I'm not claiming they are not serious, I'm just wondering about origin of such claim and them being played on goth events [at least these I attended in Europe] seems a plausible reason.

No. 405610

>>405454
On this rare roseposting tangent, I love this track Ornamental - No Pain. It would definitely be played at my local goth night but they already do lapse into synthpop and industrial and just related projects to true goth bands all the time though.

No. 405659

>>405610
Ah, stripped trousers, we meet again. Been a while since I have seen someone in one.

Speaking of stripes - diagonal one were kinda of a symbol of Polish band Republika. Their leader and vocalist Grzegorz Ciechowski was an absolute mad lad when it comes to combining different genres including cold wave but also ton of other totally non rock related - if he was active in the UK or western Europe he would be in an absolute rock cannon of every rock enthusiast. But he did not plus he died 22 years ago. This album would go nicely at any '80s related DJ set list.

No. 405765

>>405532
Ah my bad. I think it started because bands like Depeche Mode and The Smiths would get called "goth", two popular 80s bands that are not goth but were played in goth clubs which influenced some people to think that these bands were goth by association because of how liked they were by goths. Strawberry Switchblade just happened to be the next one added to this list. I'm sure it started on TikTok because in most YouTube goth videos I've watched, I haven't come across anyone bring up Strawberry Switchblade, it's usually just the later aforementioned two.

No. 405769

Since people mentioned John Koviak earlier in the thread, thought I'd post a song of his. It's a shame he didn't do full albums because he's really good and had a really nice voice.

No. 405837

>>405765
SS was popular among internet dwelling goths like in the late '00s. It was also pretty easy to come to their songs at the time by accident from synth based playlists. Which mattered back then when there was far less new wave music uploaded on youtube. I think it was due to their popularity among lolita fashion crowd. They were a strong western influence fashion wise after all. There been also some overlap of lolita and goth crowd in the late '00s. I mean at least numerous lolitas were claiming to be also goths at the time.

No. 405839

Back to topic of fashion - some grufties from the '90s Germany. Just generic black clothing you could find everywhere even in regular shops - clothing that was nothing that special back then - the final goth touch is being delivered by makeup and hair. Which proves that you can look and feel goth in everything. It does not have to be "designed to emanate darkness". They look more goff than many people dressed in "designer goff".

No. 405941

>>393020
>>393022
>>393023
>>393024
I am a fan of this type of music and never knew this connection. i am pretty shocked about how lets play pong takes the same track and just pitches it a tiny bit differently. thanks so much for keeping this info alive. do you have any more notable New Beat artists I can look up?

No. 405957

>>405941
The most famous still active artist group that was active in that genre are Lords of Acid. Other artists are pretty much a distant past. Technotronic was also involved in that genre (most famous track "Pump Up the Jam"). Lords of Acids and Confettis made it to MTV.

If you know any oldschool DJs or club goers ask them about mid '80s to early' 90s Boccaccio club in Belgium which was the epicenter of all that music.

There is also documentary on Belgian club electronic music scene that covers New Beat among others https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sound_of_Belgium

There are many compilations on youtube of various tracks from that scene that pops up when you search for "New Beat".

No. 405958

>>405957
Adding some TV material from the days of the scene. Many many many dance moves recorded in this video.

No. 405963

>>405957
I love lords of acid! No idea they were in that genre. Their music is so unique to me that I assumed they just had their own sound so I never bothered looking it up. I remember when I found one of their albums at a tiny second hand shop as a teen and picked it up on a whim. Changed everything.

No. 405971

>>405963
Their early days were New Beat they are featured in that video >>405958 with their track "I sit on ACID". New Beat was very influential for European club scene and was important phase in evolution of many subgenres of electronic dance music.

No. 406054

What in the name of fuck….

No. 406140

>>405837
Part of that too is many brands that eventually influenced modern lolita (especially MILK) were strongly associated with the New Wave scene in Japan, and with goth having new wave associations and lolita fashion also having those associations, it makes sense for there to be crossover.

No. 406175

>>406140
Well, yes goth is part of new wave (a.k.a. post punk) music.

No. 406250

>>405369
I forgot about Cocteau Twins. When I was 16 my dad's friend made a cd for me called Darkwave and they were on it. I looked a few months ago and found the bands online. I haven't heard of Alucarda(besides the film) but I'll have a listen. I'm also interested in Darkwave artists if you know of any.

No. 406255

>>405839
>clothing that was nothing that special back then - the final goth touch is being delivered by makeup and hair.
That's what I miss. You didn't need super expensive Hot Topic shit to be goth. It was the makeup-accessories-hair that spoke for itself. A girl in my circle used to wear frilly pirate shirts with black jeans and boots. She always did creative things with her makeup. She made goth her own thing, it wasn't pre-made Dark In Closet crap. I see goths in my area but they are Nu goth hipsters. I miss the days when goth was about the music and when you saw other goths you knew you had something in common.

No. 406276

>>406255
>it was the makeup-accessories-hair that spoke for itself

I can't exactly pinpoint the moment that whole obsession with "brands, brands, all your wardrobe has to be brands and brands" started. For a long time even "TV 'goffs'" [Abby from NCIS, to lesser degree Kenzie from Lost Girl but still a lot of normie stuff in a mix] and "movie goffs" were mostly dressed in predominantly normal clothing just accessorized plus makeup. The most "brandy" stuff they would wear would typically be boots.

No. 406280

>>405431
Even Strawberry Switchblade hates this song. Yes, they dressed dark and and gothic, but they were by no means goth. They were played in goth clubs because goth clubs played alternative clubbing music. Also I would start laughing if this started playing in a goth club, this is like the equivalent of The Lovecats by The Cure, just silly music that isn’t supposed to represent the bands’ sound.

No. 406331

>>405431
Imagine getting upset over this. Get a life nona.

No. 406339

>>406331
Maybe stop labelling everything as goth.

No. 406751

File: 1718621602422.jpg (37.5 KB, 319x482, roseagain.jpg)

>>405610
I listened and it's very funky I love her so much
>>406331
ayrt I'm not genuinely upset I just really like being hateful and pretentious for fun

No. 406911

Since there was talk about the Romantic Goth style, this video kinda continues to illustrate the missed mark, more so on the woman's part. I think the problem is that she didn't include enough "goth" goth elements in the look and played it straight the dark romantic look. I mean it's fine but I wouldn't call it "Goth". Her BF kinda missed the mark as well, I think in terms of not playing the dark romantic look as straight as his GF did, the bottom half doesn't really scream "goth" to me neither, it gives off more Industrial/Rivethead vibes. Maybe if he switched the buckled ripped trousers for plain skinny pants or even velvet and paired them with some pointy toed boots, it would give more of a "goth" look. Same deal with the GF, the dress is fine and so are the tights but I'd switch the boots for a pointy toe or granny style boot and maybe go for a teased up messier hair style and an ankh necklace.

No. 407049

File: 1718699561890.png (617.29 KB, 720x540, Sherlock-Holmes-jeremy-brett-2…)

>>406911
It indeed looks more toward dark alternative [in the late '00s vein] look with romantic elements rather than romantic as the main core of outfit. BTW he could have get romantic enough look if he just wear even simplest suit trousers in black color and kept shirt inside pants. They are cheap as fuck in thrift stores. Simple 3 piece suits, tuxedos and frocks are good enough to be a part of male goth wardrobe. They been seen in the '80s scene but mostly disappeared later and get replaced by "victorianized" brands variants, many of which are very unfortunate in design if you ask me. Modern male suits formed in Victorian times. Main difference between modern and [actual] Victorian variants were some minor details of cut and height of waist. But that's not the parts that modern brands target. They do some very random modifications instead.

By going with this type of ripped pants he watered down the romantic elements by introducing very visual elements of other aesthetics. It's a mix of styles instead of "letting the romantic part play the main role". If he would have worn simple plain black pants instead hey would not grab attention and would let the vest and shirt to be the most visually striking parts of outfit.

No. 407057

File: 1718705407945.jpg (266.84 KB, 1125x1153, Handmade_Mens_Black_Leather_An…)

>>406911
I agree they missed the mark. Of course they chose a costume instead of actual clothing pieces. I'm thinking of what nonna said and it just screams Pulled From Pinterest. He noted Romantic goth makeup was softer then went with harsh makeup. The ripped jeans was terrible and doesn't fit Romantic at all. The pics I shared up thread of Jeannie Nitro; the bloke with skinny jeans and winklepickers is more accurate. He wore round platform boots and while he doesn't need to wear winkles, boots like pic rel would have looked better.
The girl's makeup was inaccurate, too garish and looking more like J-goth. Her look was just way off; the tights, the boots, all of it. If they wanted to portray the style correctly, they could have watched films from that era. Or at the very least done more research.

No. 407063

File: 1718706358471.jpg (73.31 KB, 720x1130, 812028c8b356fd4517f2b9319e5e14…)

>>407057
I also want to add that the red eyeshadow didn't work. Tbh I'm tired of seeing it. I don't know if ReeRee was the one who started it, but it's all over Instagram as the 'goth' look. Case in point the 'romantic goth' edit from Killstar has all the models wearing that same look. If they made it softer and less garish (pic rel) then I wouldn't care but it's literally everywhere

No. 407078

>>407063
Wasn't that Dani Divine that popularized red eye shadow?

>>407057
Good point about boots. As pants I would say that thicker wool black pants (tweed?) would make the vest and shirt look less like costume.

I personally do not associate romantic goth with any specific style of makeup. Heavier work for me as well as simplistic subtle one. But I have in mind the general romantic (broader than goth) movement of the '80s and they were wearing also heavier makeup not only more subtle.

No. 407085

First time posting ITT but does anyone remember a clothing brand called Heavy Red from the early 00s? They called themselves goth couture and it was one of the first websites I saw that I could get super aesthetic stuff. I remember the quality going down sadly but for awhile it was very cool and unique and well-made. I still have a few pieces and wear them to this day even tho I’m not remotely goth anymore because they were so quality. my super srs goth days were 12-17 bc my mom was very cool about fashion kek

No. 407086

>>407078
>Wasn't that Dani Divine that popularized red eye shadow?
I don't know, I remember ReeRee doing a video on Romantic makeup and it was dark red and black.

>>407085
>First time posting ITT but does anyone remember a clothing brand called Heavy Red from the early 00s?
Yes I remember them. They were medium-priced clothing that I dreamt of having, but I agree their quality went down later on. I've gotten used to DIY over the years and even though I can afford those brands, I'd rather thrift and upcycle.

No. 407119

File: 1718725902479.jpg (513.35 KB, 1200x1600, Gypsy 83.jpg)

>>407057
I agree with you, they should've watched a movie like Gypsy 83. It's been awhile since I've seen it but I remember thinking some of the looks the characters wore did look romantic goth and it could've been a good foundation to start with. Or characters mentioned above like Tosh from Urban Legend. And for the guy, someone like John Koviak like the pic shown here >>405240
It's pretty clear that they either typed in "romantic goth" on Pinterest which isn't a great resource for that style unless you know what the style actually looks like and/or they google image searched "romantic goth" and were met with the generic dark romantic looks that aren't actually romantic goth neither.

No. 407123

>>407119
this looks trashy as fuck.

No. 407125

File: 1718727013392.jpg (8.27 KB, 236x206, Gypsy.jpg)

>>407123
Lmao I understand that on the cover, Gypsy (the blond woman) looks trashy but in the film she wears a few nice outfits like picrel. The movie is drenched in early 2000s though since it came out in 2001 and the plot involves the blonde girl being obsessed with Stevie Nicks but the film features some goth music from bands like The Cure, Diva Destruction, Claire Voyant, and Bauhaus.

No. 407127

>>406911
That's Jake Munro's ex bandmate kek

No. 407128

File: 1718727502615.jpg (44.09 KB, 425x657, ef31732f1bb2d85d19ce6079858fc4…)

>>407085
I remember Heavy Red! I discovered that site in the late 2000s in my late teens and thinking a lot of the clothes looked nice but I was too poor to afford it. I remember really wanting to get this sweater (picrel) because I liked the stitching on it but I never was able to get it. Sucks to hear that the quality has went down.

No. 407135

>>407127
Oh is it? I didn't know kek.

>>407063
>dark red eyeshadow look
I agree, I'm so over this look as well and it seems to be overdone and I don't think it particular sells the "romantic goth" look neither. I'm not sure if ReeRee Philips was the one who started it, I went through her channel and I couldn't find a tutorial of her using red eyeshadow, vidrel is the closest I've seen with the full eyeshadow coverage. I think that >>407078 is right that it could've been Dani Divine.

No. 407146

File: 1718732655835.jpg (268.81 KB, 721x608, 30262bc703d7791c9722bd72d00521…)

>>407119
Yes! I was hoping someone would mention Gypsy 83 in this thread. Her style definitely would fit Romantic/witchy. That's how I learnt about Clair Voyant(I'm in a Darkwave mood if anyone has more bands to recommend).

>>407135
That's the video I was talking about. Actually it was a girl called BlackCatCvlt that did one on Romantic goth makeup. Later I saw ReeRee's video and wondered if BCC copied it because the video is gone. If people swapped the red for purple or dark blue it would be fine, but it's so generic now. It's not my idea of Romantic make up.
The goth couple used chalk white foundation and it wasn't used much with Romantics in the 2000s. I have face powder one shade lighter than my skin tone, that is what we used, plus staying out of the sun. The idea was looking like you walked out of a Jane Eyre novel, not looking like you came from a Marylin Manson concert.

No. 407156


No. 407184

>>407146
>Yes! I was hoping someone would mention Gypsy 83 in this thread. Her style definitely would fit Romantic/witchy. That's how I learnt about Clair Voyant(I'm in a Darkwave mood if anyone has more bands to recommend).
Yeah! I really need to rewatch it because it's been a hot minute but I remember being in love with Gypsy and Clyde's style and it was totally of that time and the costume designer did their homework utilizing the late 90s goth style that was popular in the scene at the time. And funny enough, I learned about Claire Voyant from that movie as well! (For another Darkwave band, I'd recommend Dichoroic Mirror, they kinda blended darkwave and ethereal together, beautiful sound.

>Actually it was a girl called BlackCatCvlt that did one on Romantic goth makeup. Later I saw ReeRee's video and wondered if BCC copied it because the video is gone. If people swapped the red for purple or dark blue it would be fine, but it's so generic now. It's not my idea of Romantic make up

I totally understand. Red is just so overdone and it would look better with purple or dark blue. Honestly the only time I've seen red used and it looked really nice was in one of Angela Benedict's videos (vidrel)and even then, I think it's the way she did her eyeliner that makes it look "goth" to me as opposed to something like what you usually see here >>407063 where it looks boring and generic.

No. 407197

File: 1718747196218.jpg (215.72 KB, 1440x1440, Vamp aesthetic.jpg)

I totally didn't know dude was in Jake Munro's band. That explains the make up, kek. The gf's make up needed to be less, IMHO.

No. 407199

I exercised my aging brain a little bit more and memories of a bygone era started flowing to my consciousness. I checked photos of Lady Amaranth and she also was doing red eye shadow when wearing red clothing. I also dug out older photos of Blutengel team - red eye shadow present. If memory serves me well red eye shadow was a standard back in the '00s if you had a lot of red in your outfits plus red hair streaks or al red. Black-red was a pretty popular combo back then in dark alternative circles - goth, punk, industrial, fetish scenes.

No. 407200

>>407197
That picrel looks like typical vanilla '00s dark makup

No. 407203

>>407199
Black & red was a big one, I remember black and purple blue or green also being popular, not to mention the controversy over black and pink as a color scheme

No. 407205

File: 1718748909240.jpg (94.32 KB, 1280x720, Vampire makeup.jpg)

>>407199
That's true. Maybe it's the way Zoomers are doing it that annoys me. Somehow in the 2000s they made their makeup look like part of their outfit and Gen Z look like opium addicts.
Pic rel is more ethnic than goth, but could easily be incorporated with darker shadow on the brow. Maybe it's because she blended it around the eye and had a lighter colour on the lid. If the girl in vid rel >>406911 had done something similar it might have made her outfit look classic, but instead made it look like a parody.

No. 407353

>>407205
>That's true. Maybe it's the way Zoomers are doing it that annoys me. Somehow in the 2000s they made their makeup look like part of their outfit and Gen Z look like opium addicts.

No idea what exactly do you have in mind writing about looking like opium addicts. I have seen broad spectrum of makeup styles done by zoomers.

As for the couple in question their Victorian video looked closer to what seems to be closer to someone's vision in this thread.

No. 407354

>>407205
Do you mean a contrast between very clean clothing style that many zoomers indeed possess and somewhat messy makeup style?

No. 407356


No. 407394

File: 1718814461322.jpg (50.42 KB, 546x976, 72ae2ef0862154628ad801e4bdf63f…)

>>407354
>Do you mean a contrast between very clean clothing style that many zoomers indeed possess and somewhat messy makeup style?
I think that's the word I was looking for. Zoomers have clean cut clothing, it comes straight from the goth shop/Killstar/Dark In Closet. They haven't taken the time to build a wardrobe. Trads and millennials had to thrift or buy items over time and this added character to the wardrobe. That's what Zoomers lack; they don't have character. We took the time to have our makeup look good because we care about the subculture. But I don't get that from Gen Z; they don't care about the music or the culture, they do it to look cool. Their idea of goth is superficial and their clothing and makeup reflects that. I think that's what I was trying to convey. Yes, red eyeshadow was around in the 80s and 2000s. But it was done well and looked creative. Zoomers slap it on like a stencil. We're immersed in the actual subculture but I feel like Zoomers aren't. They're on the outside looking in at us and mimicking the idea of goth, and that's why, in my view they don't embody the spirit of gothic culture. I guess it's because they grew up with their faces in iPhones.

No. 407414

>>407394
The "easier" fashion gets the harder it gets to make the look unique. And "dark fashion" never been "easier" even despite the fact that goth clothing brands been existing for several decades.

Heavy customization of the '80s meant that you would see people doing stuff like dying stuff black. Like wedding dress from this video from the horror comedy movie "Night of the Demons". Literally regular wedding dress dyed black + makeup + teased hair (notice it's not the "standard black dyed hair" but pretty natural looking brown) + few metal accents in form of bracelets. Done. You know you are looking at a goth.

You would have to think - get an idea and concept what are you going for. That's a part of one of the most complex human mental activity - planning. Planning takes time and energy and then you have to move to the next phase - the "doing it". You need to know what fabric would take what kind of dye etc.

No. 407459

File: 1718828538673.jpg (99.43 KB, 736x1308, 180161dc3685ce59de29027d2228f9…)

>>407394
You nailed it! That's the problem with these zoomers' fashion. The problem is besides the fact that the clothes are so cookie-cutter cut and end up looking generic and bland and boring because so many of them rush out to buy these same pieces in droves; it's also the fact that many of these zoomers are buying these generic "goth in a box" clothes hot off the press and it's what emphasizes the blandness of the outfit. Like you said, in the 1980s and us millennials, sure we bought second hand clothing but the clothes were lived in and showed age and added character to the looks we did. It gave off a natural feeling to it, not something "fake" for lack of better word. And when you pair these super clean generic clothing with their over the top makeup, it really adds even more to this boring, generic aesthetic.

>>407414
Excellent example, Angela is definitely one of the best examples of DIY uniqueness. And you're right, it all starts with coming up with a concept and working from that and the way to make that concept feel unique and natural is not take the easy route via buying "goth in a box", the fun comes from using simple stuff and building it like a puzzle.

No. 407477

File: 1718832861709.jpg (43.82 KB, 563x692, 59240e4dea0e57921621b9b3aee78f…)

>>407459
>many of these zoomers are buying these generic "goth in a box" clothes hot off the press and it's what emphasizes the blandness of the outfit.
That was my thought; they look like clones. Even when they try to be 'original' it still comes off looking like a parody. They're style is basically pre-made cookie dough or pancake mix; just add red eyeshadow. We had those ready made dresses but we didn't wear them. In highschool there was a poser goth and she bought those expensive Hot Topic dresses. We didn't consider her one of us because she didn't like the music and didn't DIY.

>sure we bought second hand clothing but the clothes were lived in and showed age and added character to the looks we did. It gave off a natural feeling to it, not something "fake"

Exactly, it didn't look like a costume because we live and breathe the music. And the clothes have a 'lived in' look. I think Zoomers also miss out on the lifestyle. As a teen we couldn't afford to go to concerts or they were too far away. That didn't stop us. We'd go behind the mall parking lot, drink cheap beer and listen to CD's on the stereo. I heard someone went to a concert and when a song played, the Zoomers started doing TikTok dances. Growing up Generation Glass sucked all the creativity from their brains. They don't need to think when the internet does it for them.

No. 407491

File: 1718834860173.jpg (135.07 KB, 736x1143, f85f883575f8d55afc8cea37d21c88…)

>>407414
>Like wedding dress from this video from the horror comedy movie "Night of the Demons". Literally regular wedding dress dyed black + makeup + teased hair
I remember this scene. This is a good example of creativity. If it's not black, dye it black. I think Zoomers are afraid to make mistakes or think they have to look perfect.

>>407459
>Excellent example, Angela is definitely one of the best examples of DIY uniqueness.
Also taking an item and redoing it. Something I learnt from Antimony & Lace is making patterns. She said if you thrift and find a skirt(but it's the wrong fabric or colour) rip the seams out, trace around the skirt and make a new one in a fabric you like. I really miss her site, if it was still around I think it would help Zoomers get into the mindset of goth subculture.

No. 407540

When I decided that I'm not going to dress normie anymore 1st thing I did was buying studded belt and some wristbands plus steel toed combat boots (most expensive part of all of that) and then was still utilizing old clothing. It looked generic punk that way already with this very minimal change. That method of shifting toward alternative style seemed obvious to me at the time. I did not suffer urges to buy some brand clothing despite the fact it was already pretty easily available.

No. 407542


No. 407543


No. 407546


No. 407554

File: 1718846922200.jpg (377.03 KB, 1581x2000, Cindy Lauper.jpg)

You can go even cheaper on accessories and still get punk look

No. 407719

File: 1718911750369.jpg (112.06 KB, 508x339, istockphoto-824815224-170667a.…)

>>407353
>No idea what exactly do you have in mind writing about looking like opium addicts.
When they do the black and red eyeshadow, they don't blend well and it makes them look like drug addicts instead of goth. It looks lazy because they don't try. Or they try too hard and it ends up looking generic. That's what I was saying. Makeup doesn't have to be a certain way, but being creative is a key factor in the subculture. And Zoomers lack creativity because the internet thinks for them. Like I said, they don't take cue's from the music, they take it from Pinterest and Instagram.

No. 407981

>>407719
Not like you don't have a point in describing the causes but scene(s) always had their fair amount of of people concentrated on the look or rather at current dominant trends in that look not on music and/or experience of events. Are you talking about zoomers of the social media or you have also in mind these attending events and gigs?

No. 408021

>>407981
I'm talking about social media Zoomers. When going to festivals or clubs you expect people to go all out. But it's like what anon said >>382863 looking at Instagram and seeing the same clothes and make up. I'm a Millennial and used to get made fun of for being goth. It's just annoying to see Zoomers treating the subculture like a costume instead of a lifestyle. We went through shit in the 2000s and watching Gen Z rebrand it like an ironic aesthetic is frustrating.

No. 408023

>>408021
I'm a millennial too and I totally get what you're saying. The commercialization and the commodification of our scene turned into essentially a costume by attention whoring zoomers who (try) to change what goth is about is absolutely obnoxious. And if we dare say that our scene is music-based and even make note that the music is still being made today (both old and new bands), they call us gatekeepers as if we are trying to hide the music from them which is fucking annoying.

But I feel like their shallowness has a bound because something I've noticed with a lot of these zoomers is that they don't stick around long. They'll only "be goth" for a a couple months, maybe even 2-3 years but they then burn out and drop the whole thing and move onto the next popular trend.
I mean the same happened with us millennials but I've noticed it's even more common with gen-z and it's not even just goth but any other music-based scene that isn't metal.

No. 408037

>>408023
>something I've noticed with a lot of these zoomers is that they don't stick around long. They'll only "be goth" for a a couple months, maybe even 2-3 years but they then burn out and drop the whole thing and move onto the next popular trend.
This. But I refuse to let them be the last word on goth subculture. The problem for me is in future if people start referring to what Zoomers were doing as goth. Like what is done with Trads and Millennials. Gen Z will drop the goth label, but I fear their shallow influence will stick around. And people will see all the Killstar/Romwe/DarkinCloset crap as the epitome of goth culture. It's the same with Siouxie being lumped into goth when she isn't. Zoomers are rebranding goth when they aren't. People won't see them as shallow posers, they will see them as New Gen Goth, and I fear that will be the example, while all of our screams are drowned out by the popular misconception of goth. I don't want my subculture(that I suffered for) to be a generic concept for people to joke about when they need a good spoof. All we did is like the music and got picked on, were the brunt of jokes for popular kids, and made outcasts. Seeing Zoomers mimic us for the 'cool' points fucks me up.

No. 408038

>>408021
>I'm talking about social media Zoomers
And what is so unique about them that social media millenials did not do?
>>408023
>But I feel like their shallowness has a bound because something I've noticed with a lot of these zoomers is that they don't stick around long. They'll only "be goth" for a a couple months, maybe even 2-3 years but they then burn out and drop the whole thing and move onto the next popular trend.
Well, it was a thing for years already with millenials too. Remember blogs about being trv goffs disapearing after 2-3 years? I do.

No. 408039

>>408038
>And what is so unique about them that social media millenials did not do?
They aren't unique. Didn't you read the thread, anon? They're all clones wearing the same makeup and clothes. Millennials weren't terminally online like Zoomers. We actually went to clubs or did our own get togethers, something Gen Z rarely does. Their goth identity exists online, ours came from the music.

No. 408040

>>408039
>Millennials weren't terminally online like Zoomers

Then define millenials as a good portion of them were and still are.

No. 408041

>>408040
millenials invented nu-goth and revived mall goth, zoomers goth dress always like >>407459 or like a stripper. also there's no zoomer male goths, only gay male crossdressers and trannies obsessed with some cartoon goth girl they skinwalk

No. 408043

>>408040
Ok I didn't realize your the baiting anon that's always picking low key fights with us. I'll remember that next time I see your replies.

No. 408044

>millenials invented nu-goth
that would require research who was behinf that fashion as wearers does not equal inventors in case of commercial fahsion
>and revived mall goth,
mallgoths were middle millenials

you are mixing stuff and redefining generations timelines

No. 408051

>>408037
AYRT and again, I totally understand you. I remember getting called names at school and even had some kids who threw rocks at me when I was walking home only to come home and turn on some Cure and Bella Morte (before they went all electronic lol) and just feel relaxed. It was a tough time and the music that we loved calmed us and brought us all together. Seeing these zoomers taking the progress we fought for only to disrespect it into a shallow personality is grating but I think what helps me not think too much of them is knowing that there still are people who genuinely like the music and listen to it like everyone here. It probably also helps that I don't use TikTok so I don't have to witness these people too much.

>>408038
>Well, it was a thing for years already with millenials too. Remember blogs about being trv goffs disapearing after 2-3 years? I do.
I'm aware, I remember VampireFreaks and how there were lots of darkly-inclined people calling themselves "goth" on that site (heck that's where Toxic Tears made her name and she's one of the biggest Posers on YT). This isn't new per say but I think the difference is that you didn't see it too frequently and for that, I just think that's a side effect of social media, specifically app culture.

No. 408054

File: 1719008656312.webp (41.54 KB, 614x767, Mallgoths.webp)

>>408041
>millenials invented nu-goth and revived mall goth, zoomers goth dress always like >>407459 or like a stripper. also there's no zoomer male goths, only gay male crossdressers and trannies obsessed with some cartoon goth girl they skinwalk
Gotta remember though, "Mall-goth" was not an actual goth style. In fact, it was a code-word for poseur way back in the day lol. I can admit that I have a certain nostalgic fondness for the look since it was big when I was a teenager but it really had nothing to do with goth at all and was rooted in nu-metal music. From what I've seen with the "revival" is just zoomers finding it and unironically thinking that it's an actual goth style.

No. 408189

File: 1719057794050.png (336.96 KB, 1000x878, a82ddca2caa83861321fb4d51f2712…)

>>408054
>Gotta remember though, "Mall-goth" was not an actual goth style. In fact, it was a code-word for poseur way back in the day lol.
Yes it was, lol! The poser in our circle was mall goth. She only shopped from Hot Topic. She listened to Godsmack and Disturbed and thought Rob Zombie was edgy. Hot Topic was probably the OG goth in a box. Some of us bought a spiked choker from there but mostly we did DIY. It was ok to buy an accessory or two but buying boots or outfits was labeled mall goth.

No. 408196

>>408189
Mallgoth is the best

No. 408200

>>408054
It's s a style now, kek. Millennials saying back in the day it was an insult to be called mall goth. Zoomers have found it and made it trendy. Rebranding everything as usual.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GothFashion/comments/xlm4s8/is_mall_goth_a_style_now/

No. 408205

>>408200
>>408189
>>408054
Why are you all so assmad about it? Isn't it a good thing they're differentiating themselves from goths and acknowledging they belong to a subculture that likes different music and clothing style?

No. 408211

>>408189
AYRT, I won't lie, I was a bit of a mall-goth way back when in the early 2000s. I didn't buy all my clothes from Hot Topic but I remember saving up and getting a pair of the Tripp Pants lmao. I had a spike choker but I actually just got mine from a pet store kek. Thankfully I did meet an actual goth in my junior year of high school and she was patient enough to help me discover actual goth, I learned about London After Midnight from her.

>>408205
I'm not "assmad" about it. I was a "mallgoth"-lite in the early 2000s since I was a teenager at that time. It's just funny to see that in hindsight how it really didn't have nothing to do with real goth.

>Isn't it a good thing they're differentiating themselves from goths and acknowledging they belong to a subculture that likes different music and clothing style?

"Mallgoth" still has "goth" in the name which was/is because the people were trying to tie it to the goth scene. I remember hearing from a friend that where she lived, they called it "mallcore" and I wouldn't object to it being called that since it makes sense as these people were doing their shopping in the mall for their edgier fashion.

No. 408213

>>408211
>I had a spike choker
Plent of [milenial] goths i know have spike chockers.

No. 408215

>>408189
This reminds me of these stupid graphics from deviantart where someone was caliming that darkwave, coldwave and gothic rock are different styles xD Absolutely clueless millenial author.(xD)

No. 408216

>>408215
You're calling me clueless to get a one-up for being offended that mallgoth doesn't fit the label you want it to. Baitpost elsewhere.(infighting)

No. 408219

>>408216
Are you OK?

No. 408319

>>408196
>Hot Topic was probably the OG goth in a box

Bogey's? Lip Service? Retail Slut? etc

No. 408645

File: 1719224462105.jpg (57.5 KB, 648x900, abby.jpg)

Abby Sciuto from NCIS - did her outfits affect you?

No. 408646

File: 1719224694341.jpg (282.47 KB, 1365x2047, abby2.jpg)


No. 408656

Clothes from 2004 are as old now as clothes from 1984 were in 2004. Wearing thrifted xtrax/hot topic/whatever is hardly different from wearing thrifted anything else in this current time. If you stumble upon a piece you like don't think too hard about the mallgoth thing.

No. 408662

>>408219
Yes. Sorry I misread your comment. I thought you were calling me a clueless millennial for saying mallgoth meant poser.

No. 408688

Can westerners explain me why the fuck Molchat Doma get so poular in the west? Not only it's primitive as fuck [this guy easily complicated their riffs] but we have tones of better bands in the region who also don't sign in the language of invasive specie known as Russians. I don't listen to stuff in Russian out of fear Russians proclaim my stereo to be a historical Russian sphere of influence and integral part of Russkiy Mir™.

No. 408690

>>408688
Kek. I think because westerners just found out about them. Could be from a TikTok or a video going viral. It's the same when western rastas find 5nizza and decide it's the best thing since toast.

No. 408694

>>408688
People clicked on it because of the cover, liked the dark "doomer" sound and that's just it lol.

No. 408705

>>408645
I didn't really watch a lot of NCIS but my parents were into the show and so I'd catch a few episodes of it from them whenever they were watching and I remember seeing Abby and thinking she was so cool. I thought her outfits were cool when I was a teenager but looking back, her style screamed more "mall goth" and I don't really consider her an actual goth character because when I looked up a list of music that she listened to in the show, with the exception of the Cure, most of the songs were either industrial or alt rock.
That said, I do still enjoy the character even if I don't personally see her as a goth anymore.

No. 408707

>>408688
I assumed that the reason why they got so popular was because of TikTok with one of their songs and how they were called "Doomer music". The first time I ever heard about them was from a zoomer at my old job in retail who was waxing on and on about how awesome this band was. She's also really into Tiktok (was always scrolling on it during down time) so I just figured that's how they got popular lol.

No. 408728

>>408707
>>408694
Makes sense

>>408705
If I had to criticize anything in her outfits it would be always (or at least huge majority of the time) wearing identical wristbands. But just because I find asymmetry in that area to look more interesting. Not because It's a "no no" in my book. Here where I live identical wristbands are more of metalhead fashion staple, so it might also have some influence on my opinion. Other than that her outfits were not screaming "alt brands only" straight in your face (even if they were but I can't tell as I'm unfamiliar with US brands of the era and after years many pieces of her wardrobe look like generic '00s pieces to me). I don't exactly remember if there was any explicit statement about her being goth in that series. I remember there been at least once a scene of her in the club and some mention that she was sleeping in a coffin in other episode. Actress playing her been involved in alt rock scene since few decades.

No. 408738

File: 1719252465557.jpg (209.68 KB, 900x1200, cb21c43a820e1341c528a745c51bbc…)

>>408211
>I had a spike choker but I actually just got mine from a pet store kek.
This. One of our friends got his from a pet shop. They were cheaper than Hot Topic. He also used to buy chokers with a ring on it and add a padlock to it. Other DIY things we did was pull tabs off of soft drinks and make necklaces from them. I used to paint mine with fingernail polish for variety.

No. 408774

>>408728
AYRT and I remember her wearing things like TRIPP clothes and as an American, it definitely made me think of things I'd see in Hot Topic, especially with the tall platform boots that were a staple of her footwear when she wasn't wearing platform Mary Janes. Also the clip, well that's nice that the character was upfront because like I mentioned, based on her music tastes, she didn't listen to goth music so it'd be accurate.

No. 408775

>>408738
Omg, I remember doing this kek. I made a soda can tab bracelet, painted a black and red one with nail polish. Thanks for the blast from the past.

No. 408786

File: 1719263187536.jpg (24.82 KB, 800x1067, ambush-safety-pin-link-necklac…)

>>408775
Do you remember safety pin necklaces? I used to paint the tops with black or red nail polish. We used to cut a slit in our tights and safety pin it back together. I used to wear one as an earring too.
One of our friends made a bracelet from paper clips but I wouldn't do it because they weren't black, kek.

No. 408795

>>408786
I remember these as well! I never actually made one myself, I mostly just did the usual safety pins in jacket and tights thing but I had a friend who made one into a necklace. I've never done the paperclip thing and I didn't know anyone who did haha.

No. 408796

>Depeche Mode
>Goth Music
Another person throwing in Depeche Mode into the goth music genre lol.

No. 408797

>>408796
I'll give her credit though, she at least got most of it right.

No. 408831

>>408051
Your comment about how people treated goths reminds me of movie rel. Ryan's character being bullied because of how he dressed. It's tame in comparison but is a reminder of life at highschool circa 2000s.

No. 408927

>>408831
Yeah it was more or less somewhat like that. Like I mentioned, at least in my experience the worst we got was having things like rock and food thrown at us and one of my male friends who wasn't really a goth, just an alt nerdy guy who hung around unfortunately did used to get shoved around by some of the sports kids. But in the end we all had each other at the very least.

I'm curious if the bullying is as bad now as it was back then but I'd like to think it's gotten a little better but at the same time, as shitty as those times were, it did help some of us develop a thicker skin and I suppose that can count for something.

No. 409077

>>408796
eh, close enough

No. 409124

File: 1719339097486.jpg (46.45 KB, 850x400, randomquote.jpg)

>>408796
Why it started with mentioning Manson?

Also lol at barely mentioning the Damned Just like 1 second then whateva we move on to other bands. Also lol at anachronistic bullshit of "2 pank fa goff 2 goff fa pank" about deathrock. That bullshit phrase originated pretty recently and has a little to do with historic origins and meaning of the term deathrock. Also no idea where did she took that "rockabilly guitar work, glam imagery (..) and synths and gloomines from goth[????]" Was it sourced from one of these numerous obscure blogposts or some portals posts that was presenting to the world "historic facts" about term deathrock that originated by the means of taking these facts straight from authors anus? Just listening to most [opular early bands that were otiginating from the area where term deathrock originated is enough to understand that it's pure bullshit. Also term goth was not even that big thing around the time term deathrock was actually used. That anachronistic use of "goth" is what pisses me and many people who actually remeber scenes from back in the '80s off. Also WTF is "goth post-punk"????? Who spawned that unholy abomination of a term? Als WTF she is citing Dinah Cancer without actually understanding what she is citing… I'm literally speechless.

And no, Christian Death did not "brought deathrock to Europe" at least not any more than how she stopped biting her wife with a steel rod or how colors are dancing to the sound of sweet velvet shapes.

tl;dr; it's a great luck she probably does not speak German otherwise we would have a lecture about over 9000 "genres" because Germans love renaming everything like every 3rd band created in that country because you see if a German pitches down keyboard or adds more reverb to vocals than other bands they surely just created a very unique and turbo original genre worth naming!

No. 409144

File: 1719342090458.jpg (43.26 KB, 736x580, summary.jpg)

>>409124
And why she intoduces term "Goth Rock" with Depeche Mode? Ah, right she has no freaking idea what she is talking about and how much stuff she already get wrong in under 8 minutes.

Now I start playing 9:59 mark.

Nooooooooooo, awwwwwww. WHAAAATTTTT? "Darkwave" being a child of new wave and goth? Goth is already a subgenre of new wave. It was the one of original names for gothic rock FFS. She is literally claiming that a subgenre of newave had sex with newave and it had a child together and that child was the same subgenre that had sex with broader basket of genres that it's a part of. What kind of logical abomination is that? Oh, great now she is also throwing a pinch of synth pop into the mix. But synth pop is a subgenre of new wave already. Why is she repeating herself for another time???? And no baby, during the 80's darkwave was not used "to describe synth based bands". A lot of bands that was called "darkwave" had no synths or almost no synths but you are literally listing such bands in the same sentence. Which proves you have no idea what you are talking about, you don't understand what you are citing and have no idea how music of bands you are mentioning sounds. And you are like what - ummm 70 seconds into Darkwave section???? Ah yes, Gary Newman. Goff icon.

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaha "Dark Wavers" [photo of Razor Candi with 2 other people emerges]. Is this video directed by Mel Brooks???? LOOOOOOL

"Cold Wave (a.k.a. French Cold Wave)". No idea what does she meant by that "a.k.a." part. And then instantly jumping to ethereal wave. And then instantly to "minimal wave". Is that the moment where she entered ADHD mode? "Neoclassical darkwave like Death Can Dance" - WHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT??????????????????????????????????????????????? Ah yes, Corpus Delicti, the famous French Darkwave band famous for being synthesizer heavy [not] as illustrated by a track she choose in which there is zero synth parts. You are contradicting your own definition of darkwave kido. Is consistency and logic stuff that boomers only care about?

Oh noes, she is mentioning Todeskunst after all. Good that she does not mention bazillion other German terms.

Ah yes, cybergoth a very famous "offshot of goth music". *facepalm counter clicks yet another time.

[13:32]
Oh how great that she is citing a dude who explains that her definition of darkwave is anachronistic and contradicts with what she claimed about it meaning back in the '80s. Also fun fact he is also NOT claiming that it has for him to do anything with having synthesizers sound. [ADHD stream of random bands follows here ended with Molchat Doma]


What in the name of Vlad Tepes did I just watch??????


To people who still don't get it - she provided citations proving that historically speaking darkwave was just another name for what we call today as "goth". And it had nothing to do with having or not any synths in your songs.

But the funniest part is that she does not understand that she literally pwned herself.

No. 409386

File: 1719406340597.jpg (78.69 KB, 736x1115, c84a5c1054b4b6d353bda843dee0bd…)

>>408927
>I'm curious if the bullying is as bad now as it was back then but I'd like to think it's gotten a little better but at the same time, as shitty as those times were, it did help some of us develop a thicker skin
Yes it did. At least it taught us to be prepared for criticism and learn that most people are not nice. I think zoomers are spared the worst due to growing up with iPhones. That's a problem when it comes to criticism or bullying. Think of the stories where Gen Z was bullied online and then took their own lives. Bullying sucks but it teaches you about real life. These kids are terminally online and don't live in the real world so they aren't immune to life's evils. If Zoomers are turning mallgoth into a fashion trend then it could be a sign school bullying isn't as harsh.
In my circle there were 3 goths including me, a punk and a few alt people that dyed their hair blue and wore UFOs. There was a gay kid that hung out with us because we were a group of misfits. He wore earrings and makeup and was generic alt. He used to get bullied a lot but we all got together and defended him. One alt kid had the most scorching comebacks when the popular kids made a dig at us. At the end of the day at least we had our music and each other.

No. 409723

File: 1719501426338.jpg (78.29 KB, 640x920, 4ffd327a63b8265eb5c24d878fe43a…)

>>406276
>I can't exactly pinpoint the moment that whole obsession with "brands, brands, all your wardrobe has to be brands and brands" started.
Could be the middle 2000s? I remember the movie Repo: The Genetic Opera used Lip Service for Shiloh's wardrobe. I'm thinking a TV show may be the culprit but I can't think which one. When American Horror Story: Coven aired, they were doing things like How To Get Their Look. The Stevie Nicks fan girl had people wanting to buy her clothes. I think at the end of some episodes they would tell viewers where to get it. That's one example, but I'm sure there was one show that used a goth brand and it picked up from there.

No. 409750

are there any real bands that have similar sound to hex girls?

No. 409763

>>409750
The question which you are trying to ask is "whom are they ripping off sound-wise"? The answer is hippies.

No. 409780

>>409723
The mid '00s indeed feel like a timeframe of intensifying amount of visibility of stuff from brands. But honestly I think it was just mostly the result of many different factors. I wonder how big was the role of Vampire Freaks in that.

No. 410209

How do you cope with warmth and heat waves?

No. 410231

>>409750
As a fellow Hex Girls fan, it depends in what way you mean. If you're asking for any actual goth bands that sound like them? No, I can't think of any because for the most part The Hex Girls don't make goth rock music and they mostly played around with different rock genres like for example, their "Put A Spell On You" sounds like late 90s alt rock while "Earth, Wind, Fire, & Air" sounds more like a hard rock song.

The closest goth-related band I can think of that I feel might've been an influence for their music is Inkubus Sukkubus. Personally I've always been mixed on whether I would consider them a goth band. My friends back in the day considered them "goth" but I personally never really got that vibe from them save for a few songs. Nonetheless, they made their debut in the early 90s and kept making music and from what I've read, they were somewhat well-known in the goth and pagan music scene at the time and I wouldn't be surprised if the creator of the Hex Girls had heard of them and used them as one of their influences.

For a non-goth reocmmendation, maybe early Concrete blonde?

No. 410232

>>410209
I live in a desert so I feel you anon. Honestly the best advice is just dressing in thin layers. I notice that I tend to live in sheer and/or mesh material tops because they do breathe in the harsh heat if I don't want to leave my skin totally exposed.

No. 410234

>>409386
AYRT, you raise a good point that even though we had to face IRL bullying, we really did learn to develop thick skin and we'd remember to always have our friends backs and we didn't all have to be goth for that, we were considered the "weirdos" and we "weirdos" just stuck together whether we were goth, metalhead, alt, gay, and/or especially nerd (it helped that we'd have interests that overlapped with nerd culture).

>If Zoomers are turning mallgoth into a fashion trend then it could be a sign school bullying isn't as harsh.

Maybe lol. Again it makes me think back to the late 90s and 00s where "mallgoth" was looked down upon both by goths and the general public though with the latter, it didn't really help that many of them did act like attention-whoring jackasses but of course there will some chill ones as well. But yeah they were definitely not seen as trendy back then.

It's nice to hear that in your circle, you all had each other backs. It was a beautiful thing to build friendship in that way and I miss that.

No. 410235

>>409723
Yeah I honestly can't think of any shows that were shilled by alternative brands. I'm pretty sure that NCIS' Abby wore a couple clothes from Tripp and Lip Service but not many people, let alone teenagers watched the show religiously. I can't even recall seeing "goth" characters in live action tv shows during the 2000s. I remember Repo! The Genetic Opera though I didn't realize that Shiloh was wearing Lip Service brand clothing lol

>American Horror Story Coven

I was in my early 20s when the show came out so I don't know how popular it was with teenagers but I feel like it may have been quite popular because I do remember a wave of girls wanting to be all spooky, witchy, and goff taking fashion inspiration from the characters, mainly Madison, Zoe, and Misty. Though funny enough, the popularity faded after the show ended and a lot of these girls ditched the style and most became "normie" or moved onto something like E-Girl & K-Pop.

I won't lie though, I loved Misty's style and I took some inspiration from it for some of my own looks that I still do from time to time today kek.

No. 410279

>>410235
There were not too many of explicitly called goth characters in the '00s US made series. Their peak popularity been like 1998. And when they were they were more or less like Abby from NCIS (series starting 2003) or Richmond from IT Crowd (series starting 2006).

No. 410280

As for Brits there been this episode of The Spine Chillers form the early '00s with industrial/goth people in it.

No. 410281

>>410280

And Mighty Boosh character

No. 410282

>>410281
Plus few other in that show

No. 410283

>>410280
If anyone knows where to watch that episode you would be my hero. I have seen it like a decade ago when it was uploaded by someone to youtube but get removed not that long after.

No. 410307

Goff randum kapul published a video from Dublin Goff Picnic - a lot of feshyn tolk.

No. 410308

Angela on accessories and building outfits liek bek in da dey

No. 410325

>>410308
I thought that it was a good video, she pretty much was saying what was discussed here and how accessories can go a long way in creating a unique and natural look as opposed to the cookie cutter goth in a box that ends looking samey and boring.

No. 410331

>>410325
Ye, good summary

No. 410343

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>>410235
>I remember Repo! The Genetic Opera though I didn't realize that Shiloh was wearing Lip Service brand clothing lol
I think Terrance mentioned it in the DVD. I haven't seen the film in awhile. After the allegations of him being a seedy ephebophile, I stopped watching him.

>but I feel like it may have been quite popular because I do remember a wave of girls wanting to be all spooky, witchy, and goff taking fashion inspiration from the characters, mainly Madison, Zoe, and Misty.

That's her name! I forgot the Stevie Nicks fan girl was Misty Day. I remember watching it and thinking they kinda ripped off Gypsy 83. People were creating clothing sets inspired by the show on Polyvore. AHS Coven may have been the start of Nu Goth fashion. The hipsters wanted to be witchy without fully committing to goth, and created Nu goth. You're right, after the show finished, so did their interest. Personally I like the hippy/witchy inspiration. It makes sense to adjust my style for warmer weather, like anon said wearing thin layers.
Link rel when websites popped up telling people Where To Buy a characters wardrobe.
https://www.shopyourtv.com/tag/madison-montgomery/

No. 410345

>>410308
She said we didn't have the t-shirts with bats and ankhs. That made me lol because I had to buy a white out correction pen and draw crosses or webs on my shirt.
She talked about baby bats having access to Killstar, Dollskill etc. Where do they get the money to buy them? I've seen some of the prices on these brands and it's ridiculous!

No. 410346

File: 1719681899658.jpg (81.29 KB, 960x720, b532cadca7670f642803abe763aed3…)

>>410343
AHS was such a vibe. I barely picked any inspiration for my style back then but I've been wanting to dare for a while. The house, the clothes, the plot, the almost all female cast, the WITCHCRAFT… I really wished I could go to Miss Robichaux Academy. I think it had a pretty big impact on certain spots of tumblr.

No. 410349

>>410307
Goth picnic
>What kind of music you listen to?
Depeche Mode.

:cringe:

No. 410371

As I think about it there been some amount of "convertites" from goff lolita and visual key around the end of the '00s. And in both brands were a huge thing already at that time.

No. 410377

>>410371
*visual kei

No. 410423

>>410345
Same here lol I remember I had this nice back crop top and I took a gray fabric marker and drew a large ankh on it. It turned out so bad in hindsight because it looked a little crooked but I didn't care at that time lol.

>She talked about baby bats having access to Killstar, Dollskill etc. Where do they get the money to buy them? I've seen some of the prices on these brands and it's ridiculous!

My guess is either some of these kids have well-off parents who give them money to spend or they may be buying them secondhand on an app like Depop.

No. 410439

>>410343
>That's her name! I forgot the Stevie Nicks fan girl was Misty Day. I remember watching it and thinking they kinda ripped off Gypsy 83. People were creating clothing sets inspired by the show on Polyvore. AHS Coven may have been the start of Nu Goth fashion. The hipsters wanted to be witchy without fully committing to goth, and created Nu goth. You're right, after the show finished, so did their interest. Personally I like the hippy/witchy inspiration. It makes sense to adjust my style for warmer weather, like anon said wearing thin layers.
Yeah I can see why one would think they ripped off Gypsy 83 with her but I dunno, I think Gypsy and Misty's styles were distinct enough to stand on their own. Both inspired by Stevie Nick's hippie witch look but went in different directions where Gypy's take looked more semi romantic-goth while Misty's felt more witchy hippie (closer to Stevie which fits since the character idolized her).
>The hipsters wanted to be witchy without fully committing to goth, and created Nu goth
Which is funny since it was just another style that started as a pseudo goth style but ironically it eventually did become a real one when more actual goths (both musicians and fans of the music) started dressing in that way.

>Personally I like the hippy/witchy inspiration. It makes sense to adjust my style for warmer weather, like anon said wearing thin layers.

Yeah I do this as well. It really is the perfect style for summer and with a few tweaks with accesories, you can totally make it look more goth.

>>410346
Yeah it totally was a vibe. I thought that Coven kinda lost the plot towards the end of it's run but overall it was a fun ride with neat characters. And yeah it did have a big impact on the hidden corner of Tumblr but like I mentioned, it has long been dead and I don't think the characters being returned in Apocalypse was enough to bring the interest back.

No. 410443

>>410349
It's so interesting isn't it? It makes you wonder if these people who claim to like goth music but hardly if ever play it and tend to default to Depeche Mode, do these people actually like goth music or what? I don't understand how these people think that Depeche Mode is goth when it's so clear their music is synth pop and new wave? Their music sounds nothing like goth music.

No. 410514

>>410443
>synth pop and new wave
synth pop is a part of new wave

No. 410659

>>410349
I'm ignoring her comment about Depeche Mode. Listening to vid rel to drown out the words my eyes just read.

No. 410688

>>410514
Synth pop comes from new wave. New wave came first and synth pop came shortly after. Either way, the point is that new wave & synth pop is not goth music, completely difference music genres but yet you have these chuckleheads conflating it as such and it's annoying.

No. 410692