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No. 86957
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>>86956Also OP here; Anything punk is fine too, just please don't post emo, scene or metal, thank you.
No. 86959
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>>86958I've loved MaryGraceFrancone's makeup lately, I don't know who she is but she's shown up on my instagram explore page a lot recently. She's pretty young but takes a lot of trad influence and looks great.
No. 86961
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xbatprincesskittyx and battybooty are pretty awesome, they're a bit different to the usual looks you see on social media and they're not scared of colour. Like so many people feel like you can't wear colour with goth makeup despite all the original punk, new romantic, deathrock etc looks being full of colour as well as black liner. I'm old as fuck so when I was a teenager I had black, blue and purple eyeliner and red lipstick I used all over my face because my only eyeshadow was black and I had the option of like one brush so straight lines were only available via liner and blush via lipstick.
No. 86982
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Does anyone wear bone jewellery? Or make your own jewellery? I'm trying to make more than just nose chains and necklaces but I'm not too good at it. I have the ideas but not the ability to realise those ideas, and bone jewellery. If anyone has advice that'd be awesome. Posting with inspo just 'cause.
No. 87055
>>87003That really sucks that you lost such sentimental jewellery, I'm sorry to hear that. I have my wisdoms sitting in a little antique ivory box (cliche I know) and have been meaning to do something with them like turning them in to drop earrings, I don't want to loose the root as it's big and gnarly and pretty but I love the idea of a ring so I may look in to getting even some of those porcelain ones you buy in strips.
>>86982Bones are great when they're found and not acquired a la Joji Grey, I know the beach here has a lot of them and a friend just makes his jewellery from chicken bones, like from his food. Dries them out, coats them in clear nail polish or varnish and chains them together.
No. 87260
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Most of the activity seems to be instagram these days. There's a small crowd on Vampirefreaks still who are pretty close knit but that's been taken over by scene kids and Taylor Swift fans from Bangladesh. Don't see much on twitter, searched through the tags and it's all a bit bland. Anyone have any favourite social medias or forums for goth related music, art etc? I'm always looking for somewhere new.
No. 87670
>>87249>>87260There was the 30 second goth and punk accounts on twitter, but the punk one hasn't been posted in a long time and it looks like the owner of the goth one called it quits.
In Depth Music is a good account. They're on youtube and post a lot of underrated stuff.
No. 88471
>>86982when they took out my wisdom teeth, they let me have them and I turned mine into earrings by just wrapping some wire around them and then attaching them to hooks.
i like it when people ask me 'are those…teeth?' and i can flippantly respond, 'yes, i grew them myself.'
No. 89563
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How do you guys get the confidence to go to goth clubs? I really want to be able to meet other goths and make friends but I don't have any goth friends to go with and wouldn't know how to just go up and talk to random people alone.
No. 103839
>>103823It's never been more accessible, even normie shops atm are pretty goth friendly. You can be goth just by wearing basic ass clothes with a little styling, you don't need to go full batcave immediately.
I recommend starting a mood board of things you personally like though,deciding first on things you already know you like the look of so you can start there and expand
Start getting into the habit of checking Facebook etc for gigs and events in reachable distances
No. 103949
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>>103823I have already posted this in another thread, but I live in bumfuck nowhere in Siberia.
I just own a lot of basic black clothes, a couple statement pieces I ordered online (boots and coffin handbag) and a ton of cheap jewellry from aliexpress.
You can elevate the look by doing your hair and makeup really outlandishly. I chose not to because I have a buzzcut and unable tio do even simplest makeup on myself.
For makeup can I also recommend NYX? They're drugstore as far as I remember and they have black/purple/green lispsticks and singles of eyeshadows that are actually pretty good and affordable.
There are also a couple of goth storefronts on Aliexpress like Rosetic and Punk Rave, which can be pricy, but it's cheaper than Killstar. Killstar I would recommend if you know you're gonna buy more than 200$ of clothing/apparel because then they have free shiping.
In terms of a scene, unless you live in Europe or a prominent USA city the scene is dead. We had two goth nights in a year and the Halloween has died this year and the cover party died a couple of years ago. All we have for a "scene" is piercing and tattoo shops, but you can't exactly hang out there.
Most goth is online nowadays sadly.
No. 103963
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I'm saving my pennies for these Fluevog boots.
No. 103964
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>>103963But first I'm getting a pair of these.
Docs never fit me, whereas I have never needed to break in a pair of Fluevogs. And they last
decades.
No. 267914
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I love Xmal Deutschland. Finally their album Viva is avaiable on Spotify.
No. 268216
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I've recently been getting into what I call 'Goth Club' music but don't actually know if there's one coherent genre of it, I guess its more just edgy EDM. I am a pretentious punkfag first and foremost and sadly can't get into traditional goth, I don't like slow songs. My favourite bands at the moment are Crass, Cutters, Ceremony, DIRT, and Otoboke Beaver. I love 'alternative' (I kind of hate what the term alt has become) fashion in general and my personal style just an amalgamation of whatever the fuck I like. I love this girl's outfit in pickle so much
>>268202Ahhh nona i'm in a similar situation, I have no idea how to make punk and goth friends! I have one skinhead friend but it's not like there's a huge abundance of shows we could go to, or if there are, i'm not being told because i'm not in my local scene at all.. sigh. One day nona
No. 268224
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>>267912Yes, I did mean this thread, thanks
nonnie!
I wish I had the facial structure and confidence to pull off makeup looks like Siouxies, I keep it quite simple normally.
No. 268738
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>>268689Nona thank you! I just gave both bands a listen and I actually really like both! Especially She Past Away, I was surprised to find that they were a contemporary band… I just might be forced to look into other goth bands along the faster-tempo lines so i can make a playlist
No. 271394
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We've been living a lie, there's no such a thing as goth music, goth has nothing to do with musical taste, I'm even tempted to say it has nothing to do with art or culture either, it's possibly unrelated to an aesthetic too. We might as well declare that goth is whoever identifies as goth, because goth is an abstract concept and we don't want to gatekeep goth, gatekeeping is bad, everyone should call themselves whatever they fancy. There's nothing wrong with that! Are we afraid goth goes mainstream and becomes one of many labels to describe a vague fashion style, a category in a porn site or any other thing? Of course not! Goth is whatever you make of it, it has always been like that. Did goth start somewhere in particular around a certain decade? Of course not, goth has no history whatsoever. Let's fully embrace goth but only as a label in this year of our lord 2022, there's no reason to argue goth stood for anything in particular before, specially nowdays under the globalist capitalist system, because goth was never counterculture to begin with, so we're alright using it as an empty label.
No. 271493
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I might be retarded but did this anon imply that pastel/victorian/etc goth are also music subcultures?
No. 271514
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>>271493I think she's talking about the aesthetic, how there are different fashion styles for it, not only the traditional mostly black look. I don't think pastel has nothing to do with goth, really. And lolita, if anything, it's a particular subculture of its own. I doubt you can incorporate lolita fashion into the goth subculture, ''gothic lolita'' is something probably more related to victorian fashion and visual kei.
I really want to discuss this topic here: is goth intrinsecally linked to DIY, thrifting and low budget fashion? I certainly think so.
No. 271517
>>271514>I don't think pastel has nothing to do with gothSorry, that double negation throws me off. Was it a mistake and you really meant "I don't think pastel has
anything to do with goth" or did you actually mean it to be like "I don't think pastel is inherently incompatible with goth"?
No. 271519
>>271514I was a bit confused initially, because it was a response to someone talking about the music.
Anyway, I think DIY is a very admirable part of the culture, but I wouldn't rag on someone for wearing non-diy'd outfits if they are active in the music scene. Some just don't have the creativity or time.
No. 271539
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>>271517Yeah, I meant ''I don't think pastel has anything to do with goth''.
>>271519I agree that nobody has the time, but I believe that even buying clothes there's a difference between buying black basics made out of cotton and denim, and buying a killstar piece with alchemy symbols and pentagrams made of polyester. That's why I believe thrifting is the best choice, it usually takes as much time as buying clothes in regular shops.
No. 271621
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>>271539>>271539killstar is also dogshit quality. the moment they featured an mgk collection i didn't even want to own any of the few killstar items i bought over the years. i go to disturbia for sweats because they're really comfy and actually stay soft. my going outside clothes definitely reflect that diy vibe, thrifted clothes are way better quality and last longer than the "new season new looks" from fast fashion shops. i get more compliments and spend less money thrifting. estate sales are also good places to look for things like jewelry or household items.
No. 272008
>>268690Did you knew guys Nina is a
TERF?, Amazing rigth. We stan with this queen.
No. 272015
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>>103963Thanks 3 years ago flue-nonna now I need these picrel
>>271514I think it is nonna. Not sure if biased because thats how I grew up and built my own wardrobe but I really do miss seeing more thrifted and DIY. While I can be guilty of buying some fast fashion pieces and even a killstar knockoff/from the manu for cheaper bag I long to return to thrifting and altering clothes on my old shitty sewing machine. I refuse to support killstar and dollskill type shops and do look down a bit on those who buy their whole wardrobe from such places but then again I also still have a pair of TRIPP NYC bondage pants and a cyberdog skirt around here somewhere from many moons ago so guess I am a bit of a hypocrite. Would not shop at either these days though. Some of my most favorite and most worn pieces are DIY and/or thrifted normiefag items that just need the right styling. I do understand not everyone is creative and into DIY and as long as they are just exploiting the aesthetic for moid attention or to try and ruin our few remaining spaces they can stay.
My music taste is hard stuck in the past like 80s and then when VF was actually about goth kek anyone have any newer goth music recs? Bonus points if they still tour.
No. 272055
>>271483I'm an older zoomer and it's like that with a few of my peers. They think it's just a fashion trend bc of the tiktok trendhoppers who abuse #goth (and she/they troons, for some reason), or that there is goth music but it's all shitty soundcloud, or that it's a fetish bc of the stupid goth gf/bf memes.
And sadly they're half right, bc some people are trying to turn it into this bc theyre desperate for the coolness of the label but dont care about the subculture, and so cry g-gatekeeper and o-oldhead to dismiss people who mention what the subculture is about. But they don't realise that manufacturing being alt makes you the opposite of alt.
No. 272058
>>272015I would like music recommendations too (that actually tour so I can go out to a concert kek). I'm stuck in the 90s myself, I liked the ethereal, dark wave, and goth rock sound of the 90s and haven't found many if any bands similar to that.
The most modern band that I like is Angels of Liberty.
No. 272068
>>272058>>272065Rosegarden Funeral Party
Vandalmoon
Horror Vacui
Molchat Doma
Boy Harsher
Lebanon Hanover
Please keep adding nonnas!
No. 272069
>>272008Wait is she really?? I didn't know this. Like does she not believe in transgenderism as a whole?
Either way if this is true, I love her even more lol.
No. 272071
>>272068They Die
Twin Tribes
Neila Invo
She Past Away
Velvet Mist
Midnight Passage
No. 272072
>>272070The kids who need a label for every made up mental illness and personality trait are the same who will turn around and say I won't be limited to labels and music has nothing to do with fashions of music based subcultures. >sToP pUtTiNg Me In A bOx
top kek
No. 272074
>>272072KEK that is so true. But you know this reminds me of the mid 2000s with the "Emo Kids" of MySpace and VampireFreaks. I'm sue there are some others in this thread who remembers those people who would say that they didn't believe in labels yet when you look at them, they were decked out in the most stereotypical Emo/Scene kid fashion and liked the music that was popualar in those scenes lol.
I mean at the very least they were listening to the music compared to today where these same kinds of people don't even listen to the music they're claiming to be but it's just funny, especially with how things have changed and gotten much shallower when it comes to this "Don't label me" mentality.
No. 272080
>>272073I also wonder if the whole "I don't need to prove my knowledge of x genre I dress like" is also some bleed over from con culture where the SJWs kept telling people you can't expect kids to know the source of their cosplay and it's bullying. Hell same with just "geek culture" in general which was a niche before it was exploited for simp bucks. Starting to sense a theme here nonnas.
>>272074100% nonna I feel like those kids would also be the ones who tag their insta posts with all the trendy tags and when it's pointed out they don't belong they would cry "I don't fit into any label but I do it to get seen you oldhead gatekeepers"
These kids and sometimes overgrown kids just can't make it make sense
No. 272083
>>272073I'm a huge NIN fan and I regularly search for used band shirts that won't cost a fortune, because I love wearing band shirts. What I've stumbled upon was a rapper wearing old NIN shirts and sometimes other famous people I've never heard of. That doesn't mean they don't listen to said band, but I assume that fans of their music will see them wear those shirts, buy them and not even know what music that band makes.
It's okay if you like the artwork on some band shirts, honestly, it made me listen to bands I would never have considered before, but to wear something you don't know anything about is so not what I would do. For example, I'm loving the California album from Blink 182, I don't like their stuff before that, now I'm not sure if I should get a shirt from that album or just leave it be, because I was not so into them before that time.
But maybe we are just overthinking all that and we should just wear what fits our aesthetic, I don't know, guess it wouldn't work for me as I had to fight for every damn goth piece in my closet while I was younger. I don't know, maybe I'm too old to understand zoomers, for me being goth meant something, it was a way a living, it was a whole feeling, it wasn't just some stupid clothes.
No. 272086
>>272080>I also wonder if the whole "I don't need to prove my knowledge of x genre I dress like" is also some bleed over from con culture where the SJWs kept telling people you can't expect kids to know the source of their cosplay and it's bullying. Hell same with just "geek culture" in general which was a niche before it was exploited for simp bucks. Starting to sense a theme here nonnas.You know I think you may be onto something there. I can't say that I was huge into geek culture, I never really went to cons and I only liked a handful of anime back in the 2000s. I was more into video games but even then, not hardcore into it but I do remember the days when being into that stuff was not popular and you'd be teased or bullied for it compared to now where it's so popular and you don't get bullied as much for it compared to the 90s and early 2000s.
Perhaps it is a bleed over from con culture with people who dressed up as anime or movie characters while not knowing who the character was and now we're seeing that seep into music-related subculture which again were slightly stigmatized back in the day where people would get mocked or bullied for liking Metal, Goth, Emo, etc music. The people who call themselves these things now while not having a clue about the music are the people who would've bullied said people if it was still seen as socially unacceptable.
No. 272088
>>272083>But maybe we are just overthinking all that and we should just wear what fits our aestheticMy partner who is a fellow millennial but never allowed to dress like the metalhead he is tells me I should just not care that the zoomers just wear what makes them happy and while I agree if they call themselves goth then I get a bit rustled and I can't seem to help feeling that way.
While I definitely am a long time goth I do sometimes where other fashions but definitely never considered myself a lifestyle lolita or anything so am I maybe a hypocrite idk. I do only wear gothic lolita though am not one of those pink kawaii by day goth by night tropes.
No. 272089
>>272083>I'm a huge NIN fan and I regularly search for used band shirts that won't cost a fortune, because I love wearing band shirts. What I've stumbled upon was a rapper wearing old NIN shirts and sometimes other famous people I've never heard of. That doesn't mean they don't listen to said band, but I assume that fans of their music will see them wear those shirts, buy them and not even know what music that band makes. Right I feel like this became more of a trend when celebrities like Kim Kardashian and Justin Bieber were starting to wear band shirts like Metallica, Guns N Roses, and Iron Maiden. Their young zoomer fans and "zillenials" wanted to imitate their idols by dressing like them and thinking that those band shirts were brand clothing, mainly because these celebrities never talked about the music they were posing with like you know, Kim Kardashian being asked what her favorite Metallica song was.
>It's okay if you like the artwork on some band shirts, honestly, it made me listen to bands I would never have considered before, but to wear something you don't know anything about is so not what I would do. For example, I'm loving the California album from Blink 182, I don't like their stuff before that, now I'm not sure if I should get a shirt from that album or just leave it be, because I was not so into them before that time.I get liking a band shirt design, I think a lot of metal bad tees have some pretty cool designs on them but I guess I'm just old school where I'd feel more comfortable wearing band merch of bands that I know and listen to. I don't think you have to know everything about the band but at the very least, at least know a few songs even if it's just their well-known hits. Like for example you liking Blink's California album, I think it's totally fair for you to wear that shirt because you genuinely like the album. So what if you didn't like their previous work, you found some of their music that you do enjoy and that's totally
valid and if you explain that to people who question you on it, if they're chill they'll accept that.
>But maybe we are just overthinking all that and we should just wear what fits our aesthetic, I don't know, guess it wouldn't work for me as I had to fight for every damn goth piece in my closet while I was younger. I don't know, maybe I'm too old to understand zoomers, for me being goth meant something, it was a way a living, it was a whole feeling, it wasn't just some stupid clothes.I don't think it's overthinking at all. Music is a big deal for a lot of us and it's
valid, music helps bring people together and the fact that there are still people interested in these niche music genres like Goth rock, Deathrock, Post-Hardcore, and Psychedelic Rock to name a few shows how transcendent music can be in peoples' lives and that's why it's so sad to see the next generation take such a shallow approach and mindset to these once rich niche subcultures that brought us outcasts (lol) together.
No. 272102
>>272090>These aren't inherently goth (more mall stuff you'd see in Hot Topic)I'd say that none of it is goth period. Something I noticed with a lot of these "got" clothing brands is how they don't even carry any goth band merchandise, not even the more well known ones like The Cure or SOM. So I never thought of brands like Killstar, DollsKill, BlackCraft, etc as "goth" brands, just dark alternative clothing brands at bst and stuff for angsty edgelords at worst.
I do get what you mean though, I remember Emily the Strange merch specifically costing at the most, $30 for like a messenger bag while everything else of her was reasonably priced. I do get Tripp because even back in the late 90s they were on the pricier side and same with Lip Service depending on what the item was.
>How do these e-girls and zoomers afford $250 shirts?That's a good question. My guess is that they use the money they make doing their streaming by putting away some funds towards expensive clothing? That or they get gifted it.
No. 272116
>>272070Ayrt. About emo and soundcloud rap, reminds me of Machine gun Kelly's song emo girl. He couldn't describe the girl past her looks and that she only loves trap songs. About tiktok, yeah though I like the diversity of aesthetics it has, it's social media so it can be quite pigeon hole-y like people thinking they can only be one aesthetic at a time, and shallow like wearing whatever gets Likes and insisting subcultures are just about clothes. I have no problem with people who know they just like goth clothes and not the subculture. I have a problem with when people insist on squeezing into labels they happen not to fit. Just be yourself and then use labels to describe that.
But for some reason a lot of gen z collects labels like stickers, warping existing ones to fit them like with goth, and making up labels like with turning personality traits into genders (and there's an overlap with gendies and dressing alt). All while claiming to totally be themselves and so progressive.
>>272072 Yep all of this.
They're even resorting to things like "what about deaf people? They can't hear the music, so can they not be goth, you ableist? Gotcha!! Anyone and anything is goth!!" But of course deaf people are exempt you idiot.
>>272090How do these e-girls and zoomers afford $250 shirts
Sponsorships? I've had scam sponsorship DMs from fake alt brands, makes me think legit ones are common for scammers to be doing it too
>>272083>I had to fight for every damn goth piece in my closet while I was younger. I don't know, maybe I'm too old to understand zoomers, for me being goth meant somethingNot all of us are shallow, I've met fellow goth zoomers who like the music. But naturally the shallow ones are the most vocal/visible. I've had to fight for my clothes too, conservative religiousnparents you know the deal, and one of the only positives I can say about such stifling parenting is I value my self expression more.
No. 272203
>>272147I like that sort of clothing too, as I’m still darkly inclined and it’s good for casual wear. But at least in the US I have seen those shirts go for hundreds of dollars, and it kinda sucks because just years ago before this “mall goth” trend got popular, this stuff was under $10. I wonder if the trend will ever die down. Is has to, right? Soon they’ll be clinging onto some other time period.
It’s funny because I’ll see even plain polyester velvet stuff marketed as “Goth” on Depop for $70+ dollars, but literally all you have to do is buy from a normal store, thrift it, or even just go on eBay to get something similar (or even exact) much cheaper..
No. 272276
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Am I alone in thinking that whenever you hear someone who claims to be goth get asked what goth bands they enjoy and/or like and they respond with that they like all kinds of music and then don't answer are just signaling that they don't actually listen to goth music?
I feel a bit snobby thinking this way but I can't but feel like this kind of answer to a simple question is a subtle way of them admitting that they don't actually listen to the music. I get that it can be hard to choose favorites in a music genre but if you can't even name drop at least a few bands that you enjoy, it just leads me to suspect something is up. I think the reason why I feel this way is because I saw so many of those Killstar goffs, the ones who spend hundreds of Killstar and do hauls about it tended to always use that excuse of a non-answer whenever they were asked about what goth bands they liked.
No. 272313
>>272276Back when I started we had a store called XtraX and I know that people reacted to others wearing clothes bought their the same as towards people buying Killstar and co. today. Honestly, I like two or three things that Killstar sells, still wouldn't buy it, because I can make it myself in better quality or buy somewhere else for far less money with the same quality.
I would still agree with you, if you identify as goth, you should be able to at least name 3 bands that you like, same goes for every other kind of music. If someone would come around and tell me that he loves rap and therefore dresses like he dresses and couldn't name at least some music, I wouldn't believe that person. Even so my answer what music and bands I enjoy wouldn't satisfy people, I always say that I like rock, because that makes it easier, can't list every single rock genre I like and listen to, at least I could tell you some bands I like.
No. 272319
>>272313>XtraXOh wow, I haven't heard that name in a long while lol But yeah I suppose you can say that with all the big ame popular alt brands like Tripp as well. With Killstar, I just found a lot of their patterns tacky with the vomit spilled occult symbols and even worse, how people buying those items didn't even know what the symbols were. I remember this girl who did a "Killstar Goth Haul" even say that the pentagram is a "goth symbol" lol. So stupid.
>I would still agree with you, if you identify as goth, you should be able to at least name 3 bands that you like, same goes for every other kind of music.Yeah like, it's okay if your favorites change every other week but if you can't or refuse to name at least some that you've enjoyed then it just leads me to suspect that you don't listen to the music. You never see this problem with Metalheads. Like unless it's people like the ones in
>>272073 , most Metalheads do tend to name drop some metal bands they enjoy. Like whenever I heard someone talk metal and get asked about their favorite bands, I've never seen one answer with "I like all kinds of metal music", no they just get right into it. Goth is the time I've seen this kinda thing happen in.
No. 272336
>>272071Thanks for the recommendations nona! I really liked Velvet Mist.
I guess I am a little picky kek. Too often I will like the general sound of the band (guitars, bass, synth, etc.), but then not like the singer’s voice.
No. 272453
>>272069 yea nona, she's opennly a
terf since 2020
No. 272563
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>>272453You intrigued me so I looked it up and holy shit you weren't joking. YES, I fucking love this kek
I hope she doesn't deflect and retract, we need people but especially women like her to show that even in the alt spaces, you don't have to be a slave to gender bullshit.
It makes sense with her though because she did all kinds of looks both feminine and masculine and it seems she has the sense to know it's all fashion and doesn't change your sex.
No. 278467
File: 1659044805266.jpg (102.12 KB, 900x543, 543-224838739.jpg)
Bump, because can't forget Inez Weski. She's a well respected lawyer in the Netherlands, there is not much known about her personal life (even birth date is unknown, so I'm not sure how much she is involved in the goth scene) but I love her for breaking the stereotype that all alternative people are all just lowlifes. Her book is very good too, I don't think a translation exists but if you're Dutch it's both insightful and funny.
>>272563Haha oh my god that's so hilarious and cool at the same time. Another reason to love her!
No. 279030
>>278495i haven't heard many songs from this band though I've liked what I've heard. Thanks for sharing this one, the sound is absolutely divine. As great as the classic goth bands are, I love seeing new goth bands continue carrying the torch of the genre.
Golden Apes are technically a second-wave Goth band since they started in the 90s but I was happy to hear a new song from them.
No. 279031
File: 1659318956467.jpg (37.98 KB, 380x604, bcfe0f38c7c1cbc9fc130b855b9b44…)
So I'm sure this will be an unpopular opinion but honestly whenever I come across self-proclaimed Goths on YouTube who are obviously gen z, I automatically assume they are not actually interested i Goth and are just into the look which even in my eyes, looks more edgy altgirl then it does "goth".
I know that you shouldn't assume or genewralize but every time I click on a video titled "goth look" or anything that has to do with fashion and I click to see if they've talked music, 99% of the time they don't have any music-related content including playlist and if they do have a TikTok, they usually only use rap-type music, older pop punk music from the late 2000s to 2010s, and/or 80s new wave like Depeche Mode or New Order.
And even if they do show playlists which some have that may have some goth music in it like the usual Bauhaus, Siouxsie, and The Cure, I just have a sneaking suspicion that they don't actually listen to the music and only have it for street cred sortaspeak.
Again unpopular opinion but it's just how I feel.
No. 283110
File: 1661185225034.jpg (61.86 KB, 564x546, d437c245a1c1b964b24cfded84c039…)
Any goth elders who would like to share how it was back in the good days here? I'm in my early 20s and considered myself goth ever since I was a kid and dreamed of finding other goths once I'd be older but I think it's dead here. You'll find some alternative people, sure, but they're usually only interested in fashion. There aren't any goth clubs here (nor have there ever been as far as I'm concerned).
On hand it's changed for the better, 10 years ago I was getting called a satanist and a freak just for a black dress and a couple of spikes. Now, you can find edgy/'alternative' wear in any other fast fashion store and so many people are wearing it. It's cool, I'd have been so happy as a kid, but it's all surface level and the fact that it's so accessible now means it attracts people who would otherwise not care to diy it. And so when you have a conversation with someone like that it usually turns out they just like anime and listen to 100 gecs. I tried to find some people online and the only local (as in from my country kek) community I could find consisted of balding 2deep4u vampire larper moids, normie moids looking for a 'baddie goth gf' and sad pickmes trying to impress them.
I miss being 13 and worrying I'd get called a poser, at least there were some people actually participating in the subculture back then. Most of cool people are probably not online I guess
No. 283213
>>283110I definitely think a lot of the older crowd is pulling away from online. I definitely have since I got over my BPD daddy issues teenage days. I consider myself "elder" only for the fact I have been goth long enough(over 15 years yikes) to also remember being bullied for my DIY fashion and called a freak for dating the only other goth in town.
I definitely struggle to connect with the vapid people who just dress in it for edge points and goffic arcs. The generational divide probably doesn't help. I am just barely a millennial and struggled enough to relate to them let alone zoomers.
Sadly my best advice to find like minds is to put yourself out there and start the community you want and hope like attracts like but also know you will have to deal with some retarded moths who just want to fly into your light(kek) as well.
People like Maddie Danger will say "there are discords out there to meet your fellow goths"but then not link any (probably to avoid anyone asking about her bow defunct one.)
End if the day wether we like it or not or think we are cut out for it we have to make the communities we want to see in our subcultures or else the future is left up to the zoomer gothcores.
Depending on your country and situation also maybe consider one of the big festivals like WGT or ML if you really can't build a community closer.
No. 283438
>>283416i would say youre goth.
there are the goths that go all in on it and have to make it their life.
house filled with halloween decor, wear goth clothing brands, seek out all new and obscure goth bands, proudly state that theyre goth where/when they can, etcetc….
but then theres the people who just are into that kind of stuff but dont go out of their way make it their whole being.
I think before social media most people were the latter, but now with the people trying to get online clout having to compete for it with others, they have to be over-the-top goth all the time.
so it gave the impression to younger people that they have to do all that shit to be considered a "real goth" too, which thus makes these younger people tell others that they're not a "real goth" cause they don't make it their whole being…
sorry for a little bit of a rant, but tldr: you're goth and i dont remember people being obsessed with the label and so hardcore about it before social media. it just used to be as simple as: you wear black and listen to the cure? you're goth.
No. 283505
>>283416I agree you would qualify as goth if you wanted the label.
The old crowd definitely uses music as the defining factor.
The zoomers think its aesthetic.
Some will claim you have to be "apart of the scene" but if you listen to the music that is being apart of the scene imo. That's definitely all I had growing up. There was no social media and I was not allowed out to the goth clubs/nights in the city (now you couldn't pay me to go to one.)
I guess tbf ymmv depending on what you want out of being goth too though. Like other anon said if someone wants clout they probably do all their decor shopping during fall and only drink black coffee. If you only care about being comfortable in your own skin who is going to come tell you you aren't goth.
Does bring up a few question for the fellow bats.
What is your local scene like?
Are you a lurker, participant or one of the thankless few keeping it going?
How do you feel and deal with all the handmaidens and genderspecials?
Is there a different city's scene you wish you were apart of?
>What is your local scene like?Shadow of it's former glory. One of the biggest cities in Canada and I think we have on avg 3 events a month now maybe less. A lot of problem people from both old and new crowds and people thrive on the social media drama. It's made me lose all interest in it.
>Are you a lurker, participant or one of the thankless few keeping it going?Lurker loner
>How do you feel and deal with all the handmaidens and genderspecials?Get blocked and called a
terf bully for spitting truths generally.
>Is there a different city's scene you wish you were apart of?Nope, this is the only one I have ever known and I think I will stick to Jfash events and hope to eventually make fashion friends who have wider range than "if your 555 I'm 666" mentality that plagues so many goffs.
No. 284159
>>283110I'm in my early 30s and I didn't get into Goth until I was 16 and for me, my time in Goth was in the mid to late 2000s and I hardly went out to the clubs. In fact I've only been to one twice and they weren't actual goth clubs but just clubs that would have "goth" nights and in one of them, they hardly played Goth music and were spinning Industrial bands like Combichrist, NIN, and Suicide Commando type stuff with the occasional Sisters of Mercy. The other night played some classics like Bauhaus, The Cure, Siouxsie, and Clan of Xymox but for the most part, it was just New Wave and Synth Pop music like Depeche Mode, Tears for Fears, and The Human League. I did love the later night but just saying, never experienced a a club that played nothing but Goth and Deahrock music is all.
I'll admit that I miss the days when alternative was still a niche. Yeah the bullying fucking sucked and that's the one thing I don't miss but it feels like there was more camaraderie back then. Sure there were still posers like the ones
>>283114 mentioned with those people who thought listening to bands like NIN, Rammstein, Evanescence, and HIM made them goth but for the most part, at least online I was finding myself being able to meet other people who were interested in actual Goth music and I was able to come across so many more bands in the genre that I hadn't heard of thanks to these people and I just miss those days.
And at the very least, even if you were called a poser, there was this incentive that if you wanted to not be labeled one, you had to get yourself to actually check out the usic and that goes for any scene really which only strengthened that camaraderie I mentioned earlier because ignoring the few asshats, most would still accept you in even if you were new and tried to make an effort to learn about and listen to the music. Compare that to nowadays where if you so muchas mention the music, you get labeled an "elitist" and/or "gatekepper".
No. 284162
>>283213This is so true. In order to see proper continuation of the goth scene and not let it subside to the likes of zoomer gothcores who only view it as some fashion show, us millennial and even gen x aged goths have to try to create the events and meetups that we once had with the clubs that are sadly closing down. It's tough though because we may not have as much time as we used to but I'm sure it can be done.
One idea I had but haven't executed yet was having a meetup at a local park to just chill and listen to goth music while having a little picnic/potluck type of thing. Cheesy I know but I dunno, I'd go to one kek.
Point is, we can't rely on the clubs anymore because they're sadly fading away and the only events that will feature some goth bands is really just Wave Gothic Treffen and not all of us live in the UK and can go to it so this is why a more DIY approach may be the best bet to continue the social aspect of our subculture.
No. 284168
>>283416In my honest opinion, the only way to qualify as a goth is to have an active likeness for the music. When I say "active", I mean listening to goth music and making an effort to explore the genre when you can and opening up your library.
To reiterate if you're just listening to the Cure, Siouxsie, and/or Sisters of Mercy and stopping there,I wouldn't call someone like this a "goth". I'm not saying that you have to only listen to goth music but what I am saying is that keeping yourself invested in the music from time to time and trying out new goth bands and songs and building up your library to where there's more than just the usual Bauhaus' "She's in Parties", Sisters of Mercy's "This Corrosion", The Cure's "Love Song", and/or Siouxsie and the Banshee's "Spellbound". This to me is someone who is a Goth.
To bounce off from
>>283438 , Try not to worry about fashion and home decor. These things are not required to be Goth and as we've seen with the modern craze of "Gothcore" with zoomers who only care about "aesthetic" and looking edgy, it really epitomizes why the fashion isn't as important as one would think because there are plenty of people these days who choose to dress like this but yet still have no interest in the music and these people are not goths, they are alternative at best and poser at worst. Think of people like Jake Munro and
Toxic Tears, these are people who I would say are good definitions of posers to be brutally honest.
>>283505>ome will claim you have to be "apart of the scene" but if you listen to the music that is being apart of the scene imo. That's definitely all I had growing up.Agree with this. I remember back in the day people would say that if you didn't go to goth clubs, you weren't a goth but that was ridiculous because not every town has a goth club and so I too think that just listening to and enjoying the music is more than enough.
No. 284169
>>283505>What is your local scene like?It's pretty dead where I live. I hardly see other goths out in public when I'm out and about. In the whole time I've lived where I do, I've only seen one other goth and the reason I knew was because she had a vest on with a large Christian Death logo on the back of it lol. Aside from her, I haven't met any other goths in my area.
>Are you a lurker, participant or one of the thankless few keeping it going?Mostly a lurker. I used to help an old online friend post music in a Facebook group dedicated to documenting goth bands but real life took over and we just got busy with our own lives and didn't have much time to devote to the group and we haven't been active in it in 3 years.
>How do you feel and deal with all the handmaidens and genderspecials?Pretty much like you, I just accept being called a "
terf" and blocked. I've gotten blocked from a few Goth groups for refusing to call MTFs by female pronouns and this other time for saying that I thought nonbinary was stupid and contradictory. This part of why I stopped trying to engage in goth groups these days because of how so many are mindless TRAs. It's made me wary of other alternative people in general tbh.
>>Is there a different city's scene you wish you were apart of?There are times where I wished I lived in a place like NYC where I could meet more goths but again, because of how so many seem to be mindless TRAs and/or the "core" types of people who don't like goth music, I've grown accustomed to just being on my own and dealing with the solitude that comes with it lol.
No. 284475
File: 1661882569631.jpg (5.91 KB, 300x298, R-415915-1260054201.jpg)
>>284168That's kind of where I am right now. I don't listen to a lot of goth bands and I don't go actively searching for new music, but the bands that I'm into I'm really into. Like I've been listening to the same five cure albums on repeat constantly for the past year. Also in the flat field(OT but does anyone else not like bauhaus's other albums? maybe this album is just so good everything else pales in comparison…)
I feel bad for you anons actively in the scene. Goth clubs barely even exist anymore and it seems like every alt person is a TRA/genderspecial/incel. But it's nice to know not everyone is like that.
No. 284540
>>284162It's not cheesy at all. There used to be picnic and craft meetups in Philly before the pandemic and they were really good for fostering community. They helped people make friendships outside of the club and also allowed people to share info more organically.
I ended up going to clubs less because promoters lied like hastags on tumblr or an aliexpress product description. Go for goth and you end up listening to anything but that. There was also an issue with local kink and steampunk groups coming in and acting like the events were theirs.
The few solid events that were promoted by handing out paper fliers had very few attendees. It's hard to want to go out when so many people bait and switch. Picnics were the best things.
No. 284586
File: 1661926878371.jpg (39.81 KB, 500x500, Bauhaus Mask.jpg)
>>284475>Listening to the same five Cure albums on repeat constantly for the past year>Bauhaus' In the Flat FieldWell going off of this, I wouldn't necessarily call you a "Goth" until you try out more bands but if you do have an interest in the music and are open to trying out more music when the mood hits, you would be the definition of a "baby bat", someone new to the music and is taking their time (as one should) exploring the genre.
>Does anyone else not like Bauhaus' other albums?I've only listened to their first 3 albums so far and I was quite fond of "Mask" but ITFF is pretty dang good and kinda hard to top so I understand where you're coming from.
No. 284589
File: 1661927738119.jpg (129.88 KB, 828x1012, bdcd77ef4b25f2f2a47ed3f041e657…)
>>284540The pandemic really did a number on the goth's social scene when it came to the clubs. My city only had one goth club and it closed down during the 2020 lockdown and there are no plans of it re-opening but even then, that goth club was starting to teeter away from goth music anyway. I remember the last time I went there, this one DJ spun Slipknot, Linkin Park, and Bring Me the Horizon and didn't play a single goth song. He played NIN's "Closer" but I feel like he was one of those guys who thought that NIN is a goth band kek.
>There was also an issue with local kink and steampunk groups coming in and acting like the events were theirs. I've seen this too! Not so much Steampunk, that never really caught on where I live but the kink and BDSM crowd made rounds at the one club and some of them were absolutely annoying to deal with, especially when it attracted normie guys to come in and try to pick up women there.
But right, I really wanna try the picnic idea when I have the time. Even if the turnout isn't big, I think it could still be fun even if it's just like 4-5 of us there and at the very least, we can just enjoy each other's company and know we all get each other musically and jam out to some goth songs while having refreshments and conversation. I'm just really socially starved to interact with fellow goths, it's been so long lol.
No. 285006
File: 1662160220572.jpg (385.47 KB, 1947x1181, sims DNA lounge.jpg)
DNA lounge in SF is supposed to be like one of the best goth clubs but they have this retarded DJ who always plays 2012 top 40s and like imagine dragons and shit
No. 285122
Does anyone else get crazy imposter syndrome when they're just doing their homebody things and wearing black sweats and no makeup even though you listen to goth music so you know you're not actually a poser?
>>284162My city does one of these most summers and I think its a great idea! Sometimes its even better if only a few chill people show up and you actually get to know them beyond edgy nickname, fav song and most obvious makeup inspo.
>>284168I actually super agree with this
>>284540Steampunk I kinda almost understand since it's fallen off and you know the meme about goths finding out about brown but wtf is with the kink people because no way they don't have their own nights, munches and spaces.
No. 285133
>>285122>Does anyone else get crazy imposter syndrome when they're just doing their homebody things and wearing black sweats and no makeup even though you listen to goth music so you know you're not actually a poser?I personally don't to be honest but I'm also in my 30s now and I've been into goth since I was a late teen. I used to feel that way when I was in my early 20s but stopped caring when I got to my mid-20s. It was mainly because after interacting with some other people who claimed to be goths and dressed in dark fashion only to learn that they didn't listen to the music put into perspective to me that it doesn't matter if you don't dress darklu all the time, let alone at home where you're just relaxing. I listen to the music and I enjoy it and if someone doesn't automatically think I am goth because I'm not wearing elaborate dark styled makeup, they will soon learn otherwise if they actually try to talk to me about the music lol.
So I would try not to worry about it. You know yourself better than others and if you enjoy the music, that's enough. I chill at home wearing my black sweats or lounge shorts while listening to some goth music and I feel content and I'm sure you'll get there too lol.
>My city does one of these most summers and I think its a great idea! Sometimes its even better if only a few chill people show up and you actually get to know them beyond edgy nickname, fav song and most obvious makeup inspo.Exactly.
No. 286793
File: 1662747584657.jpg (52.23 KB, 736x736, brandon_lee.jpg)
What do nonnies think of no make-up/little make-up and no black hair aesthetic? Since goth subculture has (perhaps had) a strong counter cultural element to it, I assume having to dye your hair a specific colour to feel a part of it would be just pure conformity. I also don't like the idea of wearing make-up daily or sporting a heavy look, this clashes with my views on performative femininity (although I know most make-up styles embraced by goth women and men aren't very traditional, and the fact that men wear make-up too also makes a diferrence) and my concerns about toxicity in cosmetic products. I have fair hair and wish to keep my natural colour and experiment with hairstyles instead. What are your thoughts on this? Do you dye your hair? Does make-up play a special role in your appearance?
No. 286871
>>286793Do what you're comfortable with, as you say the all black 'uniform' is (most of the time at least) just conformity from people who have their value in the wrong places and seek the easiest tool to enter/get validated from an established community. Experiment to find your aesthetic within your own boundaries.
I had the same concerns as you ages ago when I was more into the local community. Most of the time, the most striking looks where sported by clueless teens listening to industrial and thinking platform boots made them goths lol. I'm not gonna lie, I do sometimes want to dye my hair black just because it would make me look paler and sofisticated. But then I remember the important thing is what comes out of my earphones, why should I showcase everyone around me how goth I am at any time?
Personally, since I'm an autist and have my sensitivity issues, I've dropped nail polish, heavy jewelry, certain synthetic fabrics. Makeup, as in full face, I reserve for band concerts. For daily life a simple black eyeliner is enough. You know, when you get older you finally understand the venerable oldfags who dressed in simple band t-shirts and black denims haha. You can focus in having fun with your friends instead of making a competition out of your looks.
No. 286975
File: 1662816906497.jpg (52.09 KB, 576x577, 15943143230_b3eaac032d_z.jpg)
>>286793I used to dye my hair red (as in ginger) because I loved the contrast with dark clothing. I did try black at some point but it just looks better on other people. With make-up, I borrowed more from japanese fashion magazines and used muted browns and plums, sometimes blues, to create "pseudo-black" eyeshadow looks that would look more flattering on my skin tone and features, and bitten lip look in the darkest red I could find.
I'm not going to blog my entire life story but basically I couldn't afford to be ugly and it forced me to come up with my own stuff and experiment and my hairmake ended up becoming my "brand". Now I'm more like you.
It's very possible to keep an interesting style even if you don't use make-up or hair dye imo. I think it's better to focus on your personal influences, rather than whether your look will be perceived as Undeniably Goth or not. You'll never be able to flex on the Killstar alt zoomers kek don't waste your time
>>286871Agree. Also I'd love to know what your staple outfits are like, my sensory issues only get worse and I can't find anything wearable anymore.
No. 287421
>>286793Analyzing what you have said here, it makes me think you're focusing too much on the physical appearance and thinking that in order to be a true goth, you have to look a certain way by wearing a ton of makeup and having a certain hair color.
My response to that is just don't sweat it. Don't worry about dressing a certain way and doing things that you may not want to do aesthetically. Goth is music-based and all you need is to just listen to the music among the other music you listen to.
Now if you're just asking this question with genuine interest on what goths think of when it comes to not dressing like a stereotypical goth or alternative person? I don't mind at all. I do tend to wear mostly black because I simply like how it looks on me but I've also worn other colors. And I nope, I don't buy gOfF fashion like Killstar neither, most of my stuff is either basic or thrifted.
I have kept my hair black though because I just don't think I'd look good with other hair colors but that's just my personal choice.
>>286871All of this, is so right on.
>Personally, since I'm an autist and have my sensitivity issues, I've dropped nail polish, heavy jewelry, certain synthetic fabrics. Makeup, as in full face, I reserve for band concerts. For daily life a simple black eyeliner is enough.I'm kinda the same way as well as a fellow autist. I'll still occasionally paint my nails but not as much as I used to and I rarely ever do full on makeup looks anymore neither since it just made me feel uncomfortable and I find that I'm more than fine with good old black eyeliner and the occasional subtle black eyeshadow paired with it when the mood strikes.
>>286975>I did try black at some point but it just looks better on other peopleI'm the opposite lol. I remember wanting to try dying my hair red because I thought it looked quite beautiful with dark clothing like you said but I just feel like I wouldn't be able to pull it off and that it looks better on other people. Maybe I'll bite the bullet and try sometime but point is that just as nice as black looks awesome with dark clothes, so does red and even blonde because of the contrast they provide.
No. 288174
>>286871>>286975>>287141Thank you for your replies, nonnies!
>>287421I think you're under the wrong impression, I was rather arguing the opposite and just asking for personal opinions. Thanks for your reply too, nona!
No. 293373
Sorry for the super late reply here but to
>>285248Absolutionfest in FL is still running, I think it just finished this weekend actually.
No. 295253
File: 1666407972753.png (424.03 KB, 951x1200, Theda Bara.png)
Im in kind of a funny place, I still love goth music and media and listen to it a lot but i've grown tired of the visual when i was like 19, do I even still call myself goth? Whenever someone asks me what I listen to im like "oh like 80s-90s music with kind of an ethereal synth sound".
Back when I did dress the vibe I was very inspired by 1920s movies and sort of a vampiric image, pretty sure Theda Bara (picrel) was my lockscreen at some point.
No. 296191
>>295228I wasn't into goth in the 00s and didn't get into the scene until about 2010 but I remember I would see a lot of mislabeling in hindsight. Like back during the days of VampireFreaks an how people were labeling bands like Psyclon Nine, Rammstein, Evanescence, HIM, and other similar bands as "goth". As for people choosing to call themselves "goth" or not, I really do think it depends on location.
I'm a millennial and currently in the my 30s and where I lived, I did see the whole "you don't call yourself goth" rhetoric but this went for any alternative subculture like Punk and Emo. Meanwhile one of my older friends who has been into goth music a lot longer than I have shared that where she lived, no one gave anyone crap if they called themselves goth so long as they actually listened to the music. They mostly reserved the poser label for what she called "the spooky kids", the kids who thought that dressing in black while listening to Nu Metal and Industrial while carrying around a Marilyn Manson luncbox and thought they were goth for it.
>gothic rock and death rock bands were lame to listen to, it was only ok to like post-punk and some darkwave bands. Yeah the older friend I mentioned hates Deathrock though I'm not sure if she made fun of people back then for listening to it. I did turn her onto Horror Vacui and she said "they aren't actually terrible" lol.
>looking back at this time the people who were judging the more "extreme" goths and vehemently denying that they were goth, were very much still goth, so why did people have this attitude? was it a pushback because it was right after mall goth was popular?I feel like the reason why this was a mentality back then was because some people felt too embarrassed to admit that they had a deep interest in something so niche to the public. The mainstream bastardization of goth in the 90s and 00s probably didn't help neither.
No. 296193
File: 1666833399535.jpg (27 KB, 500x400, s-l500.jpg)
>>295228>>293159Speaking from the perspective of gen z: alternative subcultures, especially goth, have changed so much that's it's almost purely a fashion style now. Punk and emo and goth have sort of merged into one including their beliefs and music. I think one reason punk and goth subcultures were so tight-knit was that there wasn't really anything like it, you weren't being mistaken for emos or e-girls. And the only way you could get goth clothing was by DIY, market stalls and charity shops. Now alternative fashion and even wearing black is quite commonplace, it's harder to differentiate why goth is separate. Plus, the music has changed so much. Things like psychobilly and etherealwave aren't relevant at all now, so that's another part of goth subculture that's been lost. There's a big crossover with LGBT people and dressing alternatively; the punk "aesthetic" is very popular with the nonbinary and trans crowd. I'm not really sure why that is. /rant
>>295253>Back when I did dress the vibe I was very inspired by 1920s movies and sort of a vampiric imageThat sounds cool, have you got any examples?
No. 296194
File: 1666833517738.jpeg (1.37 MB, 1170x2127, 22003039-E16C-49DE-8734-653127…)
>>86956I love the idea of adding non-Western cultural elements to goth.
No. 296205
>>296193Milennial here and while what you said hold some truth albeit shallow (not you personally, just the mentality of these people). Please don't take what I'm about to say as an attack, try to see it more as some slight educating.
> Now alternative fashion and even wearing black is quite commonplacIf you're referring to fast fashion, it's like, can we all be real here? Take a look at these self-proclaimed "goth" clothes that these companies pump out and ask yourself if this looks like something goth musicians were wearing back in the day. That just wasn't happening. You didn't see goht bands decked out in occult symbolism. And don't get me started on how some of these people don't understand that polytheistic religions like Wicca and Satanism are not "goth" things.
>it's harder to differentiate why goth is separateI disagree. Maybe it's because I've been around for a long time now and have caught onto certain characteristics with looks actually relevant in the scene but personally, I can tell the difference between someone who more than likely is into what goth actually is vs a vapid trender. If you're decked out in a whole ensemble by Killstar, I am not afraid to say that I wouldn't believe the person is a goth at all.
And finally, goth music is still being made and it still sticks out from most genres of music.
>Plus, the music has changed so much.Not really, the core of the goth sound is still there via the way the guitar sounds. It is true that with some bands, you see them experimenting with different singing styles and maybe even incorporating another style of instrument to the mix but the core fundamentals are still there.
>Things like psychobilly and etherealwave aren't relevant at all nowPsychobilly is not nor ever has been a goth subgenre, it's offshoot came from fusion of Punk Rock and Rockabilly. The "punkier" subgenre of goth is Deathrock. And Ethereal Wave, that subgenre of music was never all that popular, not compared to Darkwave and Goth rock which always were the most popular.
>There's a big crossover with LGBT people and dressing alternatively; the punk "aesthetic" is very popular with the nonbinary and trans crowd. I'm not really sure why that is.I'm gonna e honest, it's fucking retarded is what it is. Goth never had anything to do with "qUeErNeSs". Call me a
terf, not afraid to speak the truth, this is all just tardism and nevermind that most of these people don't even listen to the music anyway.
No. 296215
>>296205>while what you said hold some truth albeit shallowSuch is the life of the zoomer.
>If you're referring to fast fashion,I mean fashion in general. You could get a gothic outfit from Primark. Things like chains, chokers, BDSM-inspired clothing as well aren't hard to find nor as shocking now. I guess I should mention that where I live is full of students and all kinds of fashion styles, so it's not entirely out of the norm.
> If you're decked out in a whole ensemble by Killstar, I am not afraid to say that I wouldn't believe the person is a goth at all. I agree. But not everyone who calls themself goth wears Killstar. And not everyone who wears Killstar identifies as goth. Let's be real, you can wear a black outfit and people may think you're goth, even if you don't listen to the music. If you can look identical to an actual goth yet have completely different music tastes, then it's no surprise that most people can't tell the difference and think it's a fashion movement. You can't really tell someone's music taste by their clothes anymore (maybe that defeats the point?).
>And finally, goth music is still being made I know .. I don't think I've explained my points, sorry about that. I meant that what is considered goth music has shifted (depending on who you ask). And also not as relevant; I've literally never heard of anyone being called a poser in my life.
>Psychobilly is not nor ever has been a goth subgenre, it's offshoot came from fusion of Punk Rock and RockabillyYes. But some goths of the 80s enjoyed that type of music and there was a crossover of people who liked the genres you listed and gothic ones. I'd say songs like by Boneshaker by Alien Sex Fiend were inspired by rockabilly (and The Cramps maybe), and they're a goth band right. And the rockabilly style definitely had an influence on gothic fashion. I haven't encountered that connection amongst zoomers. It's another facet of the goth community that's been lost, is what I'm trying to get across. The sort of music goth people liked has narrowed down to more popular stuff like metal and emo music (at least with people I know).
>Not really, the core of the goth sound is still there Yet, what might be considered goth sound isn't. A lot of metal heads wear gothic fashion. Not saying that's what it means to be goth, but that's what I've noticed.
>Goth never had anything to do with "qUeErNeSs". Call me a terf, not afraid to speak the truth, this is all just tardism and nevermind that most of these people don't even listen to the music anyway.Here,here!
No. 296242
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>>86956Someone help me find more photos of goth boys doing mundane everyday shit
No. 296311
>>296215 >>296260How do you think it could happen? I've been thinking about that for a while regarding different subcultures, not just goth.
When I was a little baby goth you had to fight tooth and nail to find something like a spiky collar, or make stuff like that yourself. I remember people barking at me (kek) when I wore a choker out. Nowadays it's really popular and so is outlandish make up.
Nowadays you're expected to look polished and/or glammed out. Either zoomer grungry, grimey fashion trends are still accompanied by precise, flawless make up. It might be smudged and dark but it has a very surgical 'clean' look to it.
So going the other way might be it imo. I could see a make up less look with teased hair and lots of layers as a rejection of the current norms in some way. Although we live in very image obsessed times so sometimes I feel like the only 'true' modern counter culture would be rejection of aesthetics in general.
No. 296328
File: 1666897525912.jpg (256.91 KB, 1280x1909, John Koviak.jpg)
>>296215>I mean fashion in general. You could get a gothic outfit from Primark. Things like chains, chokers, BDSM-inspired clothing as well aren't hard to find nor as shocking now. I guess I should mention that where I live is full of students and all kinds of fashion styles, so it's not entirely out of the norm.Chains, chokers, and BDSM inspired clothing are not goth staples thugh. Chains and chokers are universally popular in all alternative subcultures, especially Punk. When I say "certain characteristics", when it comes to goth I'm talking things like Winklepicker boots, the iconic Siouxsie / Patricia Morrison eye makeup style, big teased hair (or the death hawk), Ankhs, and dress shirts paired with rosaries. These are the staples of Goth where you don't tend to see these particular things outside of Goth. Well save for the ankh but you get what I mean lol.
>But not everyone who calls themself goth wears Killstar. And not everyone who wears Killstar identifies as goth.In my anecdotal experience, I have not met any goth who was into Killstar, the sentiment I've heard from other goths about the brand is it's tacky or cheaply made clothes.
>Let's be real, you can wear a black outfit and people may think you're goth, even if you don't listen to the music.True but that's been a thing since the 90s where people assumed that if anyone wore an all black ensemble, they were goth which is not true.
>If you can look identical to an actual goth yet have completely different music tastesThat's the thing though, most of the people don't look like actual goths. The stuff I mentioned prior about certain characteristics that are goth specific, most trendies don't wear these things and instead, are just wearing generic alternative looking stuff, often fast-fashion looking or trying to look like the "e-girl goff thot". I'm more likely to think a person is actually into goth if I see them wearing something like Winklepicer boots or have the big teased Robert Smith / Siouxsie Sioux hair, and the like vompared to someone who looks like they fell out of a Aliexpress/Shein dustbin and aren't wearing any of the staples I pointed out.
>You can't really tell someone's music taste by their clothes anymore (maybe that defeats the point?).Eh with Goth, most definitely I can lol. As I said, goth has characteristics that aren't mainstream and that only someone who actively looks into the scene would pick up on compared to general generic alt stuff that you see today.
>I meant that what is considered goth music has shifted (depending on who you ask). Except it hasn't. The only people who think that are clueless trenders who get butthurt when you call them out that their music taste aren't goth. This is no different than clueless teens back in the 2000s who would label bands like Evanescence, HIM, and Motionless In White as "goth bands" when they weren't. It's no different now with the clueless kids calling bands like Pale Waves, Billie Eilish, and Lil Peep as "goth".
> But some goths of the 80s enjoyed that type of music and there was a crossover of people who liked the genres you listed and gothic ones.And? You realize that just because a certain person likes something doesn't make it the same right? A lot of early metal musicians were fans of Blues musicians, does that make blues musicians metal because some early metalehads like that music? Of course not. Goth is no different, just because goths also listen to non-goth music, it doesn't make the non-goth music goth by association. Goth is a defined music-based genre, nothing more, nothing less.
>Alien Sex Fiend's "Boneshaker Baby"Not all of Alien Sex Fiend's music was Deathrock. Just like The Cure and Siouxsie, they too also jumped around with different genres with their music.
It's kinda like the band The Frozen Autumn. Contrary to popular belief, not all their music was Darkwave as they also dabbled with Synth Pop but that doesn't make Synth Pop goth, Synth pop is a new wave subgenre.
>The CrampsThe Cramps aren't a goth band, they were a varied band but they never dabbled with Goth rock or any of the goth subcgenres. They were definitely pioneers of Psychbilly like how Bsuhaus was the pioneer of Goth. But as I said before, Psychobilly is not a goth subgenre, just a subgenre of punk and rockabilly.
>The sort of music goth people liked has narrowed down to more popular stuff like metal and emo music (at least with people I know).Then I'm sorry to be blunt but the people you know are posers if they're the kinda people who think lisening to metal and "emo" music while wearing black makes them "goth". They are the modern day "mallgoffs". Just because goth music isn't popular, the principles don't change.
No. 296333
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>>296311>So going the other way might be it imo. I could see a make up less look with teased hair and lots of layers as a rejection of the current norms in some way. Although we live in very image obsessed times so sometimes I feel like the only 'true' modern counter culture would be rejection of aesthetics in general.Look at photos of goth bands from the 80s, they didn't look OTT at all. Picrel with The Mission, don't look outlandish at all lol.
No. 297637
>>296328Hey I just remembered you replied to me.
>These are the staples of Goth where you don't tend to see these particular things outside of Goth. Time marches on.
>Goth is no different, just because goths also listen to non-goth music, it doesn't make the non-goth music goth by association. There is more to goth than the music otherwise why the hell does it matter what people wear.
>The Cramps aren't a goth bandI feel like we will have to disagree here.
No. 306309
File: 1672841421026.gif (1.52 MB, 222x183, dancinggirl.gif)
To my beloved goth anons who are active on the goth/alternative scene or in similar scenes: How much money do you spend on going to clubs and concerts every month? How do you decide what events are you going to and what events are you missing? Specially if there's almost no activity in your area and missing an event probably means having to wait at least 2 months for something similar to be organised. There's a concert in february 2h away from my town and the ticket is 16€, it's not very cheap but the bands are pretty decent despite being unknown. The problem is that there's no afterparty following the concert so I'll have nowhere to go after midnight. The earliest bus departs at 7am and luckily there's a cafe nearby that stays open until 3am, so I'd only have to wander around the solitary city night for a few hours (or I could stay in the bus station having my own solo afterparty with my headphones). Bus tickets cost 7€ each trip so that night I'll be spending 30€ minimum (plus whatever drink I order in the cafe).Is it a reasonable price for going out just this time in february? I'd really like to go and have fun dancing while wearing a nice outfit for once, but at the same time I know this is a rather expensive adventure. What do you think? Any advice from similar experiences?
>>302606I can't really recommend because I've never bought clothing online from an alternative style shop. What are you looking for exactly, nona?
No. 306595
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No. 313004
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can't stand fucking zoomers against gatekeeping. it is really that hard to listen to goth music? shit is already diverse and liking sioux or bauhaus isn't a must. you can't be a metalhead or punk without listening to metal or punk music, but somehow buying shein and killstar bullshit is enough to be goff. fuckers can't even sew or dye nowadays. i swear white people just make any excuse to feel oppressed instead of actually doing manual work with clothing. unsaged because of rage
No. 313451
>>313441for real, the rant sounded okay up until the "wah yt ppl" part. there's people of every race that don't want to/don't have time to diy.
>>312521looks good
No. 313458
>>313441found the killstar goth
even the 2000s mallgoths were more legit because they actually gave a fuck about music unlike zoomer goths that literally ignore any goth music influences and just go straight for the ~*aesthetics*~~
No. 313460
File: 1676839963400.png (3.22 KB, 355x69, uuuu.png)
>>312769Ah yes, this is good stuff. I'm playing
Sulk right now after all these years and for a few moments I feel like it's 2016 again and I just dyed my hair black for the first time! I don't do that shit anymore tho… Goth feels as dead now as it did to me back then. Who said that goth can't die because it's undead?
No. 313525
>>313441lmao can you read? i stated that there's only one rule to be part of most alt scenes/cultures and that rule is just listen to the genre attached to it. and said rule includes a wide range of styles and artists. it is too difficult for a killstar zoomie?
>>313451since most people interesed in such a non issue as muh gatekeeping and goth are white, its a cringey but relevant fact
No. 313842
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>>313716Hi, nonna. I’m a non-white goth who’s been involved in my local scene for about a year. Regarding clothes, start with the basics. Use dark/black clothes that you already own as a base for outfits. If you want to buy anything, I would recommend buying clothing second hand before splurging on new items. Some of my favorite clothes I’ve gotten from thrift stores, or websites like Poshmark. Tights are really good way to make an outfit look more gothic. You can wear tights as is, or cut the crotch and make a fish-net type shirt for layering. Look for jewelry bundles on places like eBay or Etsy for some cheap and spooky accessories. You can use old fabric from shirts as a base for band pataches. Basic paint will do.
Regarding being non-white in the goth scene, I haven’t encountered overt bigotry by other people in the scene. I was worried I was gonna get called a poser, or worse, feel ostracized from everyone else. But my experience has been pretty positive so far. I even made other minority goth friends. Good luck!
No. 314268
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>>313716Hey there anon, fellow
POC goth here and I've been in the scene for about 11 years now. Please don't worry about your race when getting in the scene because for the most part, people in the scene will not give you shit because of your race, most are very accepting and inviting. The main thing that matters is that you actually listen to the music. If you listen to actual goth music, you're gonna have no problem at all because they will know that you actually like the subculture for what it truly is centered around.
>>313842 offered some very good advice on cultivating a wardrobe but I want to emphasize to not get too wrapped in trying to looking dressed up all the time because all that will do is give you identity crisis'. This is why I highly suggest remembering to get involved with the music. Look at different goth playlists on places like YouTube and Spotify and so on.
All that I can't stress in saying is please don't think that the subculture is racist because there aren't very many goth bands with black musicians. Please remember that this is not because goth is racist but the reality is that not very many black people are interested in making goth music. I just can't stress this enough because this is an annoying pitfall I see many black alt people fall into thinking that alt subcultures are racist when the reality is that not many black people are interested in making the music.
No. 314570
>>314268>>313842Thank you Nonnies!
I have been into the music and adjacent genres since my teen days, as I was leaving metal music behind I shifted towards darker music, even since childhood I’ve been into goth literature, art, inspired movies and so on, I just now got over my fear of expressing it through fashion.
Today I went shopping and looked for a couple of things that could even be modded, gathered a bunch of jewelry I want to mod aswell. I am very excited.
I always cut my hair myself and I am in love on how a V fringe looks on me, thank you for your support I can’t wait to be able to put outfits together naturally!
No. 314901
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I've been in my local (punk) scene for like a year and a half now and honestly the longer I've been in the scene the more jaded I've become. It's so fucking painful how fake everyone is, there have been multiple times where I'm talking to a band and then some fucking rat scurries in and starts trying to advertise and ask to play with them. Every time someone tells me that they actually hate a person they act buddy buddy with, 10 years gets taken off my life. Don't get me started on how popular synth punk is here because I fucking hate it. Still love going to shows though
At least JTHM is funnier now compared to first reading it at 14 with no knowledge of any scenes.
No. 318220
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Can someone make a meme with this?
No. 318438
>>306309This is long after your event but I think it's an interesting question, I don't make that much money and still probably spend a minimum of $1500 a year on events, but we have goth or goth-adjacent stuff to go to almost every weekend in my city. I try to get out every Friday and Saturday, 3 or 4 weeks a month, most months of the year unless I am away visiting family in December. I probably spend at least $20 on alcohol while there, and events usually range between rare $5 and more common $10-15 admission, up to 20, rarely as much as 40-60 for annual events. I live downtown relatively close to venues so I can normally take the public transit and save money on expensive cabs, but I know for many people (who I see out as often as I am) transportation is their most expensive hurdle, on top of spending twice as much on drinks and who knows how much on the occasional bump of cocaine or whatever the kids are into these days.
It's certainly expensive but it requires a community willing to spend that money, for the scene to thrive, for the bands and DJs to get by, for the venues to stay open, and so on. Since covid most of our scene has dried up and is in its death throes, but luckily the bats are coming back out of the bell tower and our old haunts are opening back up.
I think DIY is so important because the young people should be making good memories, enjoying youth, spending their money on events and helping support the real life scene they're interested in, rather than spending all that money on clothes from companies that don't give a shit, to look cool to the vain skin-deep online community.
No. 318851
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I don’t know if I’m biased, but I always thought I hated romantic goth. I now see that I only hate the “female” version of it. Why does it look so tacky, both illustrations and fashion always looked so bad to me. Lucky for me I look great in fag vampire clothes.
No. 319725
>>317334AYRT that's fair I don't have TikTok but Ido have IG though i don't browse on it all the much. It's just that on YouTube when I'm searching for Goth content creators, I come across some YouTube Shorts of "goths" and they're these girls wearing all black but playing classical music and plastering "goth" in it and I'm just like really? lol It's a petty nitpick I know but it's just funny because you know these people more than likely don't listen to Goth music.
It's kind of the same as when you see people claim to be goth and will only play Bauahus' "Bela Lugosi's Dead" or Siouxsie and the Banshee's "Spellbound" in their outfit video clip and you just know that these girls don't actually listen to the music and just go for the most well-known song that pops up on Google or YouTube search lol.
No. 319810
>>318438>I think DIY is so important because the young people should be making good memories, enjoying youth, spending their money on events and helping support the real life scene they're interested in, rather than spending all that money on clothes from companies that don't give a shit, to look cool to the vain skin-deep online community.I agree with this a lot and I feel this is what the younger generation doesn't understand when it comes to alternative subcultures in general. They seem to get so wrapped up in looking a certain way to look cool and edgy while not giving attention to the actual substance of the respective subculture treating it like some trend which is why they tend to get burned out so quickly because they're only focusing on it from a shallow level. The actual "community" was built around the music while also bringing in DIY and events to bring everyone together.
I think back to a video someone recorded at Coachella that was flooded with "influencers" and how instead of taking in the music, they were all just filming themselves and taking selfies….
No. 320603
>>319725Yeah, I understand your exasperation. Let's hope it doesn't take much longer until goth becomes unpopular again.
>>318438Thanks a lot for replying! I'm still interested in hearing other anon's opinions and experiences like yours because I'm still struggling to decide how much should I spend on weekends. I've decided I'm going to live April to the fullest and I've already bought so many tickets to alt events. It's pretty much like you said, some people can cut expenses depending on their personal situation. In my case I have to spend literally the same amount of money on transportation than in tickets.
>I think DIY is so important because the young people should be making good memories, enjoying youth, spending their money on events and helping support the real life scene they're interested in, rather than spending all that money on clothes from companies that don't give a shit, to look cool to the vain skin-deep online community.Exactly.
>>319810>They seem to get so wrapped up in looking a certain way to look cool and edgy while not giving attention to the actual substance of the respective subculture treating it like some trend which is why they tend to get burned out so quickly because they're only focusing on it from a shallow level. Yess. I think when gatekeeping goth stopped being a thing, and many regular clothing brands helped to push the whole
X subculture as an aesthetic with Goth and Metal particularly, things pretty much went to shit. A decade ago it was very obvious who claimed to belong to a subculture which they didn't actually care about. Now I see people, specially young girls, who show their apparently super elaborated and layered looks and bedrooms on social media but I can't help but feel everything as unauthentic. And I'm talking about people who call themselves
goth.
No. 320640
>>320603>Yeah, I understand your exasperation. Let's hope it doesn't take much longer until goth becomes unpopular again.AYRT FFR, I cannot wait for this day to come because it's so annoying seeing this happen. Though I will say that on the upkeep, goth music has been going stronger than ever despite the poser trend the name "goth" has gotten in recent years.
>I think when gatekeeping goth stopped being a thing, and many regular clothing brands helped to push the whole X subculture as an aesthetic with Goth and Metal particularly, things pretty much went to shit.Totally and this is why gatekeeping is actually good because look at the bullshit that has happened with Goth. Heck even Metal and Punk wasn't spared but at least with Metal, Metalheads don't give a shit on calling out posers, well at least the old ones anyway because I'm sure younger generation Metalheads are much more hesitant. But either way goth needs the same kind of handling. I mean it's not like those of us who know that goth is a music-based scene are keeping the music away from newcomers.
People who are actually interested in the scene will put in the work to legitimately learn about it and see if it's the scene for them and that is what a lot of young generation today don't seem to comprehend (or they're too lazy.
>Now I see people, specially young girls, who show their apparently super elaborated and layered looks and bedrooms on social media but I can't help but feel everything as unauthentic."Unauthentic", that's the perfect word to describe this, great word choice anon. It just feels so soul-less, these girls because you know deep down they don't actually care and in a year or two, they'll be on to the next trend.
No. 321611
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>>320640Yes! And why are teens nowdays so hesitant to get to know the subculture? When I was in high school I was so scared of being fake, it took me years to feel a little bit knowledgeable on goth music and ffs I've never declared myself goth.Now it's all about picking the label
Goth and claiming it is whatever they decide it is!
>>320648>>320720Lmao anon
By the way, does anyone listen to the Cemetery Confessions podcast? I've listened to a couple of the Gothquisition episodes and they're actually fun, I like the female guests a lot.
No. 321987
>>321611>Yes! And why are teens nowdays so hesitant to get to know the subculture? When I was in high school I was so scared of being fake, it took me years to feel a little bit knowledgeable on goth music and ffs I've never declared myself goth.Now it's all about picking the label Goth and claiming it is whatever they decide it is! Same! Granted I'm a millennial in my 30s and I didn't get into goth until I was 16, I was scared of being seen as fake as well. .I remember when I went through a fake punk phase in mu freshmen thinking I was so punk because I listened to bands like Blink-182, Green Day, and Good Charlotte and I got called out by an actual punk who listened to actual punk bands like Bad Brains, The Germs, and Black Flag kek It was embarrassing but I'm glad someone told me what was up and I kept that in mind when I found my way to goth. The kids today would say that I experienced gatekeeping but it really wasn't, I was being a dumb ass kid who didn't know what actual punk was.
I don't understand why teens are hesitant to give the subculture an actual try by listening to the music. They whine about elitism but it's not elitism, those of us who know what goth is about don't think we are better than newbies.
>Cemetery ConfessionsI used to watch his podcast a few years back and I thought it was good but he eventually started going a little too political which isn't something I'm personally into and stopped watching.
No. 322397
>>321987>They whine about elitism but it's not elitism, those of us who know what goth is about don't think we are better than newbies.Exactly!
>I used to watch his podcast a few years back and I thought it was good but he eventually started going a little too political which isn't something I'm personally into and stopped watching.Yeah, now I get what you mean. I started with some of the older episodes and now that I've checked more recent ones I notice some remarks I'm not very fan of. For instance, Zakkarrii (who I was about to bring up itt because one anon was requesting opinions and experiences from goths of color) calls herself non-binary now. I can't believe people are willing to gatekeep and defend a 50 year old subculture but not actual womanhood.
No. 322406
>>322397> I can't believe people are willing to gatekeep and defend a 50 year old subculture but not actual womanhood.Nta but I agree. Goth has always been very accepting and perhaps more left-leaning, but I feel in recent years there’s been this alienation going on regarding politics. Perhaps this phenomenon is just online, but I have joined goth groups and communities where if you were not a staunch supporter of the transgender ideology or the harmful “sex-positive” stuff (think OF, sex work, and porn), then you are practically shunned. I’m a feminist, so this can be difficult at times.
Sorry to bring drama into this, but I think of the case of Kai Decadence. He had some fairly good resources in his videos and listened to the music, but once it was found out that he was gender critical, he became the “one that shall not be named”. Other YouTubers called him out and blocked him, then on the goth subreddit he was banned and posts were made warning others not to follow him anymore. It just seemed extreme to me.
Then a while back, Angela Benedict made a statement regarding the transgender movement. I can’t remember what exactly because everything has been deleted, but anyone with a differing viewpoint or tried to debate this was blasted by her followers, and she basically said that fans of her who were “transphobic” were unwelcome. It’s hard to say if she is actually a supporter or if she is just trying to save face (like most people online), but the point is that anyone that did not agree with the ideology for whatever reason was met with aggression and a hard statement of “You do not belong in the Goth community.”
I guess what I’m saying is, I wish it wasn’t always so hostile online when it comes to this topic and like you said, many of us are just trying to defend our spaces and rights as women.
No. 322521
>>322397>Yeah, now I get what you mean. I started with some of the older episodes and now that I've checked more recent ones I notice some remarks I'm not very fan of. For instance, Zakkarrii (who I was about to bring up itt because one anon was requesting opinions and experiences from goths of color) calls herself non-binary now. I can't believe people are willing to gatekeep and defend a 50 year old subculture but not actual womanhood.AYRT, yeah exactly. I first discovered the podcast back in 2015 and I found it so refreshing to find a podcast that actually talked about goth music but also talked about various pop culture outside the scene while goth was the main focus. The cohosts were interesting as well but as I said, they eventually started talking politics and it was so far lefty that I just couldn't hang I guess. I mean I'm a leftist myself but I don't agree with everything that the far left pushes for.
>Zakami identifies as nonbinary nowDoes she really? It's been a hot minute since I watched the podcast but the last time I watched, she didn't call herself "nonbinary". I agree with you, it's quite sad how people are willing to defend the subculture but won't do the same for womanhood. It doesn't help that so many women in the goth scene have started identifying as nonbinary as well (while hilariously looking as feminine as possible). It's fucking depressing to see tbh.
No. 322522
>>322406Oh my gosh I was wondering if this topic would come up about how trans ideology has totally captured the goth scene. Thankfully this is lolcow and most of us here are not TRAs on this platform so I feel safe speaking about it here and you're absolutely right and I agree with you.
I heard about the drama with Kai Decadence and how he was outcast by the scene because he is gender critical. I missed the Angela Benedict fiasco though, I heard the she made a video where she threw Kai under the bus and show her support for the transgender ideology but she deleted the video before I could watch it. It doesn't seem like it was up long it seems.
I think it's absolutely frustrating how the trans ideology is so divisive in the scene to where if you aren't a supporter of it, you're essentially blacklisted from the scene.
No. 323718
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Does anyone else get annoyed whenever a self-proclaimed "goth" feels the need to label anything that they're interested in that happens to be spooky or dark as "goth"?
"That shirt is just totally goth" (shirt has a graphic of a cat with a pentacle or moon on it's forehead)
"I totally got to wear this "GOTH" cross"
"I've gotta have my "goth coffee""
I watch this streamer who I personally don't think is a real goth as whenever anyone asks her what her favorite band is, she doesn't list any goth bands and the one time she shared what goth music she liked, she named Voltaire and anyone who knows his music knows he doesn't make goth music Anyway she always feels the need to call certain non-goth related things as "goth" and I just find it irritating.
I hate that it bothers me because it feels like I have a stick up my ass but yet it just annoys me and it makes me think that the person doing this is insecure and it comes off very poseur. Like they know that they aren't really into the music but want to keep their "goth cred" or something.
No. 324036
>>323840Oh gosh I'm so sorry you are going through this with the creep skinwalking ex. And yeah he's a total poser by what you described since you actually played Goth music for him and he ended up not liking it. I can't help but feel for guys like that, it's some sort of fetish thing. I wouldn't be surprised if it was anyway.
>It’s one thing if you actually listen to goth music and do that, I don’t really care thenOh I'm the same. When I hear people who actually know ad listen to goth music make little jokes like that, I don't mind it neither because I know deep down they are joking and actually do like and know what the subculture is about.
No. 325037
>>325000>I blame people like Social Repose and Jake Munro for this "goth reacts" fad.Yes. Reeree Phillips did the same thing years ago too. She was a metalhead, but would always put “goth” in the title of her videos. She seems to have moved on now though.
It’s too bad this trend hasn’t died out after all these years already. I don’t lurk goff YouTube as much anymore so I’m surprised there’s still people doing “goth reacts to ____”.
No. 325140
>>325037Oh yeah I forgot about ReeRee Phillips, she was another self-proclaimed "goth" who was really just a metalhead who did this as well.
And right, I still try looking for new goth youtubers to watch but sadly there really aren't many legit ones these days.
No. 325159
File: 1683103333692.jpeg (20.76 KB, 461x328, 1d-nicolas-cage-am-goth-bitly3…)
This headline always made me kek
No. 325193
>>325159honestly… yeah. he does a lot of goth things even if he doesn't embody the fashion
>>314570>>314268im so late but i love you
POC goth girls
No. 326154
>>325913>>325914We all gotta start somewhere. Now you coming from a R&B background… This one is tough because goth music and R&B are vastly different and I can't really think of any vocalists in goth who go for a singing style that you typically hear in R&B music.
That said maybe Gitane Demone may be right up your alley. Her voice has a "soulful" type of feeling to it that I think you might like.
No. 327243
Thanks for all the music recs!
>>326800>>326154>goth music and R&B are vastly differentYeah without a doubt. It's kind of hard bouncing back and forth between the two because they're so different. I kind of chose goth music for that reason, didn't want to stay married to one genre so I picked one that was very different. I think the easiest way for me to transition is by listening to the genre for what it's worth and not trying to transfer over different styles. I was also worried about the label post-punk as a neophyte as I didn't want to be led astray into anything that is different from goth, but I assume goth music is a subcategory of post-punk?
I think when it comes to music of any genre, I like when a song has a very dark tone/sort of creepy sound to it. So far I like Siouxsie & the Banshees and the Cocteau Twins (admittedly the latter has a more ethereal quality which I also like). As for newer bands go I like Kælan Mikla. I think for older music I'm currently looking for songs from the 90s, since a lot of my other old music is about that age so it sounds recent enough to my ears (2000sfag soz) but doesn't make me feel like I'm trying to larp as my old lady who listens to a lot of 80s/90s music.
No. 327680
>>327302I totally get you aoon. Goth scene as far as the music goes is still going strong despite what some people say. I come across new goth music dropping every other day. Does it get high views? No, but even back in the 80s and 90s, goth was still a niche subculture and a lot of goth bands went unnoticed by the mainstream so the way I see it, the music scene as far as interest in creating it goes, it's still going strong.
But I agree that from the outside looking in, the gen x'ers and older millennial goths were so fun to watch.
>I admired and appreciated their commitment to DIY and coming up with creative ways to find rad shit and make their own goth outfits.Agreed! Whenever I look at pictures of goths from the 1980s and 1990s, while they may share similar makeup styles, the outfits tended to look different from one another, even when in all black.They raided thrift stores and simple stores and found ways to DIY their clothes or find nifty accessories to help make their outfits pop while still managing to stand out from one another.
I still try to do this myself though I will admit I have bought some fast fashion but I try my best to take that one item and mix it with things I have thrifted to help keep it from looking too cookie-cutter if that makes sense?
I too have noticed that zoomers do exactly what you said and it's so boring to see because they end up looking the same clothing-wise.
No. 330035
File: 1684769745423.png (860.55 KB, 2048x1385, 2004 goths.png)
Happy Goth Day, anons
No. 330117
>>330035Happy Goth day!
Special shoutout to anyone who went to Asylum in Sacramento in the late 2000s
No. 330286
>>330266Thanks for your valuable contribution
I must confess I’m a bit confused. I look through playlists of goth music and all the bands I read there are often called “not goth but dark adjacent”. I haven’t read one band name where people agreed “yes, it’s goth”. I didn’t grow up in an English speaking country so bands like Joy Division or Siouxie and the banshees were not really popular but we had our own goth music in our language. So were we all never goth or? This is just fucking with my mind a bit.
You all have been discussing a lot if music here, understandably but I wonder do you do other goth (maybe klishee) activities? Do you write poems or go visit cemeteries? kek
I never did but I really love old horror like Dracula and Frankenstein. I’m not so much of a reader anymore but I love listening to atmospheric audio books.
No. 330521
>>330286>I must confess I’m a bit confused. I look through playlists of goth music and all the bands I read there are often called “not goth but dark adjacent”. I haven’t read one band name where people agreed “yes, it’s goth”. I didn’t grow up in an English speaking country so bands like Joy Division or Siouxie and the banshees were not really popular but we had our own goth music in our language.Hm what country do you live in anon? Because I guarantee that there are probably some goth bands in your country but generally goth music is very niche and this is especially in countries outside the west.
>ou all have been discussing a lot if music here, understandably but I wonder do you do other goth (maybe klishee) activities? Do you write poems or go visit cemeteries? kekI never did but I really love old horror like Dracula and Frankenstein. I’m not so much of a reader anymore but I love listening to atmospheric audio books.
There is no such thing as "goth activities" anon. The only thing required to be goth is to simply like and enjoy the music, the clothing is a bonus but not the core. Reading gothic literature or writing melancholic poetry is not a "goth" thing, anyone can be into doing those things and they wouldn't be goth for it. And I'll just be real here, the amount of goths who actually have an active interest in reading and keeping up with gothic literature is quite minuscule.
No. 330537
>>330521I’m from Germany. In hindsight I thought, maybe I never got exposed to the big ol classics simply because my friends didn’t listen to them.
>There is no such thing as "goth activities" anon. The only thing required to be goth is to simply like and enjoy the musicAnon I know this was more like tongue in cheek. I find it not uncommon for goths to have unconventional hobbies though so I was hoping to hear something interesting.
No. 330577
>>330537AYRT and Germany? There are quite a few goth bands that hail from your country but again, I understand why you may not know of many since as I said before, it's a niche genre of music and this can especially be true if you don't know anyone who listens to the music.
Anyway some German goth bands that come to mind are The Merry Thoughts, Night Nail, The Tors of Dartmor, Shadowplay, Into the Abyss, Rosengarten, The Evil Speaks, and Frank The Baptist. Definitely give them a try when you have the time.
>Anon I know this was more like tongue in cheek. I find it not uncommon for goths to have unconventional hobbies though so I was hoping to hear something interesting.Oh okay. I don't think I have any unconventional hobbies tbh lol.
No. 330693
>>330577I think you completely misunderstood. I wasn’t looking for German bands recs. Just wanted to clarify that I used to only listen to German bands (Lacrimosa, Deine Lakeien, Goethes Erben, Stillste Stunde…) and not the founding fathers like Joy Division.
Upthread somebody recommended the Podcast Cemetery Confession. I recommend the Episode Grufties. That explains the scene here a bit better.
I was wondering something else, how do you listen to your music these days? I used to collect CDs and now I completely switched to digital music on either Spotify or YouTube.
No. 332883
File: 1685798334015.gif (1.05 MB, 499x275, D29D4927-1833-4AD4-B8F3-40CE29…)
Is it just me of do you think Robert Smith is very wholesome? Maybe I just dont understand him too well in interviews kek
No. 334400
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I’m officially offended by this. Black Veil Brides and Ville Valo did a Sisters of mercy cover and it’s horrible. Ville sounds like Jeffree Star?? And I don’t have to say anything about BVB.
No. 334422
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>>334400BVB? Are those emos still a thing?
>>332883I love his takes on the royal family and he's still married to his wife, so I really like him as a person, despite being a scrote.
>>333233I returned my Barcelona ticket for a 2021 tour and never looked bad. I'm disappointed to read your post, nona, I guess he'll never change, he'll keep touring doing shitty performances until he gets bored of it.
>>330035I'd befriend the two women and avoid all eye contact with the men. Although I like the eye make-up of the guy on the left.
No. 334639
>>334420Well damn, that was a pretty crap cover. I actually used to like HIM when I was in high school. I eventually learned they weren't an actual goth band but for a rock band, I have no shame saying that I liked their sound growing up. Ville had a nice voice. However here, it did the song no favors and it doesn't help the original is really good.
I think it's hard when it comes to goth song covers because the goth sound is so unique and it can be difficult hearing them turned into generic rock songs as you miss the eccentricities that define the goth songs.
No. 337052
>>336870I think she was talking about her make up?
I was wondering if the goth anons here shave their brows kek I only do like half and make them thin for orientation
No. 337053
>>336870I think she was talking about her make up?
I was wondering if the goth anons here shave their brows kek I only do like half and make them thin for orientation
No. 337963
File: 1687952686490.jpeg (150.46 KB, 828x1190, 5F270E4A-CA36-4D80-808C-6682F6…)
Anons have you heard anything about Robert Smith grooming a girl? I’m trying to find some more information but there is only stuff on tiktok and I don’t have the app or an account
No. 345547
>>345527I believe his
victims. His shieldmaidens will always aggressively defend him, it’s actually sickeningly pathetic how many women come out and defend pieces of shit like Smith and Depp
No. 345639
I would kill for a goth/industrial/techno club in my province. I miss dancing so much.
>>345623I get completely what you mean. I don't have a local scene either, the last real goths in my city are in their late thirties or early forties and that generation in my area is full of deadbeat junkies. We had a lot of gen Y emos and weebs that have now gone 180, and the gen Z and younger are wannabe e-shits that don't create their own scene because they don't socialise outside. Goth has never been actually popular since the late 90s early 00s here and any so-called revival it's had was nothing but another nail on the coffin.
No. 345782
>>345717I've found that having broad taste is not the same as enjoying entry level everything. I don't only listen to goth adjacent music myself.
The people I'm talking about have a very surface taste in everything, like 3-5 bands from every "dark" genre, usually the most well known stuff and will wear tradgoth makeup with a Pantera shirt and a shein corset and post a Spotify topster with the Molchat Doma song that went viral on tiktok. These people are not 15, they are well into their twenties and compose most of the younger scene here. They also tend to be poly or kinky or genderspecials or all three. I am not the most socially skilled myself but I don't want to be any of these people's cool goth friend to do edgy wood and cemetery photoshoots with.
No. 345820
File: 1692650020488.jpeg (471.25 KB, 566x817, j.jpeg)
>>345782I'm sorry nonna if I am not understanding but it very much so sounds like you aren't juding their character but taste. If they are young they are experiencing the sampler pack of life and if they are older they sound to be acclimating to current situations. You really haven't stated what you dislike about these things or how it has a negative impact on your local community or yourself.I get wanting to hang with people with taste more closely aligned to yours, but having an untrained or unrefined taste in fashion while liking surface level things isn't indicitive of a poor personality or intellectual impairment. Now, if they start taking over your club and playing five finger death punch claiming it's goth, have at them. That would be an actual issue with a music choice and them showing a lack of understanding or maybe being deceptive. Any other time should be fine to listen to the Who or Hu taste varries)>
No. 347022
>>345623>I'm not being elitist but if a person enjoys ex. Lebanon Hanover I have a hard time conceptualizing how they can also enjoy say, Amon Amarth.Eh I dunno anon, I'm someone who likes goth music but also likes non-goth music as well. I can't say I'm huge into Lebanon Hanover but I do love London After Midnight but I can also go to listening to Spice Girls (and yes I know I'm showing my age kek).
That said, I think I kinda get what you mean because something I have notice is someone who calls themselves a "goth" but then mostly only listens to metal and the only goth band they like is The Cure or Sisters of Mercy. They don't actually explore the goth genre of music for all it has to offer and only go with like 2 maybe 3 or 4 bands and call it there while in the same breath, they will go above and beyond looking for more metal bands. Imo, these people aren't goths.
No. 347367
File: 1693808352593.jpg (158.05 KB, 1200x1200, Wednesday Addams.jpg)
I haven't watched the Wednesday show yet because honestly it just doesn't look that interesting to me even though I do like the Addams Family. However one thing that has annoyed the fuck outta me ever since the show came out is all these TikTok girls thinking they are now goth because they liked the show and want to be like Wednesday. Never mind the fact that the character is not a goth at all and they even missed the opportunity to have her dance to a goth song because newsflash TikTok Goffs, The Cramps are not a goth band and the song she danced to is not a goth song neither, it's just annoying.
I mean tbf, the character of Wednesday has been the poster girl for wannabe edgy girls who think they're goth for being mooody but the show just ramped it up to like an 11.
Anyway just a small rant. I'm sure the show was fine but it's just a case of annoying fans and the shallowness some of them can have.
No. 348567
>>347367I enjoyed the show because I went into it without any expectations and knowing that it will never be like the original Addams Family. It's not goth, it's depressed/deep teenage girl from a rich family that isn't just like the other girls. Honestly, there is nothing I can add to what nona
>>348561 wrote, it's Tim Burton being Tim Burton and it's young children like we ourselves once were thinking that one single movie is the essence of goth.
No. 349114
File: 1695033386682.jpg (53.53 KB, 759x347, deleted.jpg)
The OP of Robert Smith Allegations thread on reddit has been deleted, comments are locked as well. Any thoughts?
No. 349877
>>347957AYRT. Yeah I heard that Wednesday wasn't all that great unless you're one of "those" kinda people. I heard that it was just another Riverdale and when I heard that, that is what turned me off from wanting to watch it since I never could get into Riverdale and other darker edgier teen girl shows like Chilling Adventures of Sabrina. I'm still willing to give the show at least a try, like maybe 2 episodes but nonetheless, I just don't like the trend it started lol. And yeah I saw the Killstar dress, absolutely bleh.
>>348557Exactly! I would've even been fine with something much more basic level like Bauhaus' "Bela Lugosi's Dead" or the Cure's "A Forest", or Christian Death's "Spiritual Cramp", just you know just something that was an actual Goth song.
>>348561Don't get me wrong, I know that the show wasn't trying to be goth (and it isn't). Tim Burton himself isn't a goth and he had said as much, his style can just be gothic at times but he has no interest in the goth subculture. MY ire isn't directed at Tim Burton or the show itself, my annoyance is more directed at the trenders who are thinking they are oh so goth because they think Wednesday is a "mood" and want to be like her…
No. 355890
File: 1698676095253.gif (3.16 MB, 640x360, the-crow-the-crow-movie.gif)
Are you celebrating Devil's Night, anons? I am watching The Crow on vhs
No. 356210
>>356189I mean, a lot of times I noticed this happening in places where is full of teenagers, so yeah you're right.
>>356203But I thought that even people who are new to this scene (like me) would be able to discern the bands from each other. Or is it a case of dumb kids just fitting everything in a single box?
Also, Robert and Morrissey slap fight was fake pr? I thought it was real 'cause, especially bc the way it was framed, ofc Morrissey would talk shit since he can't shut his mouth once.
No. 356356
>>356149Because the people are simply uneducated and don't seem to truly know the goth sound because if they did, they would stop fucking calling The Smiths a goth band. It's the same people who call other bands like New Order, Echo and the Bunnymen, and Depeche Mode as "goth" music as well. My guess is they just click some self-proclaimed "goth" playlist on Spotify or something and they see these post-punk and synthpop bands on there and think that the music is goth because the playlist says so kek. I mean I get why it happens with Joy Division even though they too are not goth rock but their style of post-punk was a big influence in developing the goth style so when they get roped in, I believe there is an understanding that we know they aren't actually goth but acknowledge they were a big influence for the sound.
I say this as someone who likes the Smiths mind you but I roll my eyes every time I see them featured in a "goth" playlist and even more retarded when memes say that the goth scene doesn't accept Morrissey when his band was never goth in the first place.
>>356210>Or is it a case of dumb kids just fitting everything in a single box?It's dumb kids fitting everything 80s into goth. I've even some of these ignoramuses call a band like Duran Duran "goth"
No. 356537
>>356356>It's dumb kids fitting everything 80s into goth. I've even some of these ignoramuses call a band like Duran Duran "goth"Well, that's a shame. As I read the whole thread a second time, it's kinda sad learning that most kids aren't invested in researching more about goth music, or rather, any music genre really.
It always is something superficial and since there's no dedication and investment, some scenes start to disappear. I don't know a single person in my town that knows what old school goth is, and most of kids that say they're goth, their style is closer to e-girls and e-boys, and they don't even know the most basic-entry bands.
Now, this one is for all the fashion nonas. I'd like to know a thing - how can you do the classic spiky hair? I tried doing it once but it didn't work well bc may hair is wavy and greasy af and so it gets lumpy and gross.
(I know this is a bit hypocritical and that I just talked shit about kids just focusing on what to wear rather than the music, but give me a break, I'm trying to actually look legit rather than a poser)
No. 357019
>>357016samfag
My bad I meant Gitane Demone. I'm at the start of the thread
No. 370810
File: 1704308588299.jpg (33.21 KB, 775x519, Tumblr_l_1065049449936681.jpg)
baby bat here, have always listened to new/dark/cold wave music (and some basic punk, like pixies/DK as a kid) and have really been into siouxsie, sisters of mercy, ghosting, KMFDM, skinny puppy and other goth/indus bands for the last couple years. i recently started dating a goth girl and she's opened my eyes to the whole culture especially with us going to goth clubs. it's been a lot of fun but you don't really make new friends at those places.
the scene nowadays makes me sad though. im a butch lesbian who got raised in catholic school, up until i literally got kicked out for being too mentally ill (depressed, anxiety ridden, gay). ive always felt a pressure to blend in with alt music subcultures and wear edgy clothes and shit but every alt friend ive made at uni this year buys all their shit off fast fashion sites and mixes up emo music with goth and punk. it's difficult to find ppl my age who aren't kweer or edgy for the sake of looks. i admit ive been guilty of this too but when i was like… 14, 15. now we're 19-21 and it's just drab. nobody ive met wants to mod clothes with me or do makeup together, they just want to go out shopping at cheap "alt" stores. ive even been told it's stupid for me to get into goth fashion if im masculine, or that i look weird bevause of it. wow it's almost like that's the entire point of me dressing like this.
my girlfriend is the only other alt weirdo i know. i really want to get more into goth fashion and form a community but i don't know how. keep going to clubs? keep experimenting with clothing and hope someone notices me? i want to find other freaks/outcasts but it's genuinely so hard with social media identity-crafting and fast fashion everywhere. i feel super alone. i guess i just wanna know if there's any other gnc/gay women into goth music/fashion that have similar experiences to me.
No. 371324
>>>/snow/1951283And let me guess grufti is according to you a different subculture than goth too because "hey, look! a different word"? Not in my opinion. My country was using term "coldwaver" for a goth. It was still the same as goth, still the same as grufti.
Do you know what is the difference between
deathrock, no wave and darkwave or coldwave? Geographical place of origin of term. Just like between goth and grufti or coldwaver. Nothing more. They are not subgenres, they are mostly results of isolation of scenes that developed own vocabulary including different terms for same shit, sometimes of bands or music critics that developed own names too before any particular term won over other in local scene. Just check interviews with oldest bands who actually remember times when these terms originated you will see confirmation of what I just wrote.
Pretending that every new invented local name constitutes separate subgenre we see in some parts of the internet is post year 2000 LARP that originated in so called "deathrock revival circles" in the US. A movement that wanted to be a group of very special snowflakes that started pretending (a la Eldritch) that "they are not goths, they are deathrockers". OK, there was also similar trend in Germany in the '90s when they were inventing new terms to classify their "uh so obscure unique bands" to look cool in black and white xerox zines that only few dozens of their friends have ever read.
Neue Deutsche Todeskunst was one of most "so unique and necro" names for bunch of bands that didn't even had consistent sounding and which you will not be able to classify as anything other than your usual goff band if you were not informed what label they use for themselves. All of these buzzwords you pretend are separate subgenres are not even musical analogue of "What type of goth are you" meme as there was no qualities allowing you to separate these bands in different categories in blind trials.
There is no way of defending thesis that you would tell "no wave band" from "coldwave band" apart other than your handwaving.
No. 371759
>>370810Sorry anon that you're having a hard time but I'm also happy for your that you found an alt weirdo girlfriend. I've been into goth and industrial music since my early teens and I don't have any actual goth friends. My boyfriend is into some of the music, especially post punk and he dresses rather dark and he went to some goth parties with me so I guess he counts lol. Apart from that I do have a rather alt friend group but we are all into different kinds of music (metal, punk, hardcore, 80s synth etc.) with a lot of overlap. I share some single interests with a all them, for instance one is very into obscure and macabre art and antique decor and he likes to decorate his apartment with that, so we like to talk about that stuff, show each other new finds, go to the flea market etc. but overall I'm the only one who's heavily into goth. Since there's no goth scene in my town I'm really happy about these little things. I also grew up in a small village where there were no alternative people at all kek. I used to really wish I had goth friends to go to goth clubs and festivals with all the time but since I got older that urge became less and less.
I don't know if it's a generational problem that you have or if it's the area you live in. I'm a millennial and I never heard such ridiculous things as it being stupid to dress goth because you're masculine. Never let anyone tell you that or let them ruin goth for you. Yeah I would keep going to goth clubs or any alternative music events, eventually you'll find likeminded people. They can't all be that stupid.
No. 372500
>>268690just be aware her music is not Goth music,
Some of her music is overlaping with goth
>>she mostly does (well did) New Wave musicYes, she is indeed strongly within New Wave a.k.a. Post Punk movement. Just like all gothic rock bands does fit in that very broad movement. But so does synthpop or electropunk.
If you are into her music try also Lene Lovich and Daniele Dax.
No. 372618
File: 1704958606737.jpg (117.56 KB, 570x878, 80sNeoVictorianSewingMag.jpg)
>>318851It look tacky when executed by wearing synthetic crap that is predominant fabric of modern female fashion. Females change wardrobe pieces often so they often accept crappy synthetic fabrics because it makes pieces cheaper and they are going to part with that clothing pieces pretty fast anyways.
Males don't accept crappy clothing fabrics because they are wearing their wardrobe pieces till they start falling apart on them.
Female romantic style looks OK when executed with neovictorian pieces from the times like before mid 90s. Neovictorian was a pretty (semi)mainstream trend since like late '50s until early '90s (with peak of popularity around mid to late '70s) so it was pretty easy to get such pieces both new and 2nd hand or find cuts in popular sewing themed magazines. Most of these pieces were "modernized" victorian without ambitions to look more victorian than victorian era that some producers of modern pieces seem to have an obsession with. And they were made with actual cotton/linen more often than not. Viscose is often acceptable looking fabric for that style. Polyester or other synthetic fabrics rarely are.
No. 372619
File: 1704959188801.jpeg (82.35 KB, 571x719, strawberry-switchblade-392e4d5…)
>>372618Speaking of modernization, Strawberry Switchblade duo that is co-responsible for how modern lolita fashion looks (they had 5 min of mainstream popularity in Japan but made enough of inpact on Japanese alternative fashion) had a pretty interesting approach to neovictorian. Too bad their modern fashion relatives from Asia are now suffering a real eye-sore period.
No. 372621
>>372620>>372619>>372618You can also look into 1980s Patricia Morrison that was sporting a lot of Neovictorian pieces at that era.
In this video all three persons - Patrician, Andrew and interviewer are wearing clothing pieces that fit the generic romantic fashion movement (which was a trend that was present in fashion of various 80s subcultures not only Goths or Blitz Kids) without going too "look I'm so XIX century" vibe that often ruins the final result.
No. 372623
File: 1704963793756.jpg (176.27 KB, 1920x1081, Rocky-Horror-Picture-resized-2…)
>>296193>There's a big crossover with LGBT people and dressing alternatively; the punk "aesthetic" is very popular with the nonbinary and trans crowd. I'm not really sure why that is. Punk scene been a long time pretty safe space for being openly LGBT. Leather fashion that influenced punk fashion (and metal fashion trough Judas Priest vocalist[a gay male]) had strong lesbian and gay people presence. Remember that punk fashion emerged as a result of fans of music experimenting with look. It was collaborative effort and it has lended from various sources like BDSM or biker fashion. While it resulted in a certain looks scene itself does not hold monopoly on that look. Ever seen Rocky Horror Picture Show? It was influenced by various undeground fashion trends including very early punk and in own turn it influenced punk fashion too. But also "LGBT fashion" circles. Also don't forget about Drag Queen makeup influences on punk makeup. Take a look at the 1960s(sixties) drag makeup that is also area where you could find for example gay male performers.
>>296205>I'm gonna e honest, it's fucking retarded is what it is. Goth never had anything to do with "qUeErNeSs". Call me a terf, not afraid to speak the truth, this is all just tardism and nevermind that most of these people don't even listen to the music anyway.Depends what do you mean – Goth related clubs in London had for decades a lot of "gender nonconformism" of various degrees. At least Batcave and Slimelight. You can see that in video materials from the era and all over Propaganda Magazine pages. It might not have been the thing in every country but at least in some western scenes there was significant attendance of not your typical straight stereotypically male or female public. Also see paragraph I wrote in response to poster you replied to.
No. 372668
>>337052>I was wondering if the goth anons here shave their brows kek I only do like half and make them thin for orientationSome shave them totally, some keep them naturally bushy, some pluck them, some style them, some shave side halves leaving parts toward the center and draw outer parts at unnatural angles. There is no rules here, just personal preference.
>>271514Early gothic lolita was inspired by western goth - Mana was clearly dressing influenced by Goth version of neoromantic and by synth pop band Strawberry Switchblade (dressing in outfits strongly within neovictorian meets 80s laces and pola dots vein) with actual goth/industrial scene member Rose McDowall. You can also hear gothic rock influences in first Malice Mizer demo. Visually Malice Mizer of earliest days looks very similar to band Garden of Delight. There is some resemblance in sound too. Of course Japan had own goth scene too back in the '80s already.
No. 373231
>>370350AYRT, sorry for the late response but yeah like I said, it would be one thing if she truly was interested in the scene but all the evidence I've seen of her just trying to use the scene for shallow reasoning what with trying to get attention from men to pump up her Instagram and Gaming channel, I do not want to be a part of that. I told myself that if she really is serious, she'll look it up on her own because it's so easy to find goth music these days compared to back then.
>It's weird behavior from a 30+ year old, I can't how she would be successful compared to younger "goth gfs" online. I don't mean to be hateful and ageist saying that, but most men seem to prefer younger girls.That's totally
valid anon because I was perplexed myself. The funny thing is she used to be a scene queen back in the 2000s and she would get a lot of male attention and she was always obsessed with how she looked. My suspicion is that she wants that attention again and saw that "#gothgirl" is the trend now and wants in on that.
No. 373369
>>373238>They didn't do it enough to be considered a "goth" bandIf we are speaking about demo material - depends what is one's opinion on whole plethora of neoclassical stuff from the '90s. I would not have a problem in classifying demo stuff as goth. If we are speaking about all their albums - they indeed moved toward different general sound pretty early in their rather short band's lifespan.
>>373235Switchblade Symphony on their Serpentine Gallery was an interesting band as they incorporated pretty neatly a lot of elements from other genres while preserving gothic rock core. Also Faith And the Muse band also from the USA had it's moments. I mean far more than industrial influences here. In case of Switchblade Symphony - triphop and neoclassical stuff in case of Faith and The Muse with numerous folk influences [BTW eastern European and Balkan goth rock scenes are also notorious for introducing local folk elements]. Most of nowadays musical goth scene is far more conservative soundwise. As for Switchblade Symphony other album Bread And Jam For Frances - that want went pretty far from OG gothic rock but has traces of it's DNA kinda like Siouxie Sioux project Creatures. I kinda see a lot in common between Creatures and that album. Maybe not directly but some general concept and direction of experimentation. Also Chiasm of "Isolated" track fame [it made it to soundtrack of Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines ] was balancing between synth heavy goth and industrial stuff has pretty close "vibe" too. Ha, I see there been a new stuff released in 2019 from Chiasm.
https://chiasm.bandcamp.com/album/reset No. 374538
>>373369>If we are speaking about demo material - depends what is one's opinion on whole plethora of neoclassical stuff from the '90s. I would not have a problem in classifying demo stuff as goth. If we are speaking about all their albums - they indeed moved toward different general sound pretty early in their rather short band's lifespan.Personally I don't consider Neoclassical music as "goth music", just another branch of classical music that happens to be popular with some goths (and just darkly-inclined people in general). So as far as Malice Mizer and "goth" goes, I really only refer to the times they did goth rock
>Switchblade Symphony on their Serpentine Gallery was an interesting band as they incorporated pretty neatly a lot of elements from other genres while preserving gothic rock core.Agreed, that's why Serpentine Gallery was so awesome, it managed to flirt around with other music genres while retaining the core sound which was goth rock. Bread and Jam for Frances definitely went more into the trip hop and alternative side and aside from Tina's singing voice, the album sounds different than Serpentine Gallery, it doesn't really sound "goth".
>Faith And the MuseI've only listened to a few of their songs but I agree with your assessment because they tend to add in folk elements while still retaining the goth rock foundation.
>Most of nowadays musical goth scene is far more conservative soundwise. Yeah I see what you mean here, a lot of modern goth music tends to play it straight with the post-punk fused with darkwave and though personally I don't mind because I do like it, it'd be cool to see some slight experimentation (while keeping to the goth rock foundation).
>ChiasmHoly fuck, I haven't heard that name in a long time lol I remember "Isolated" (heard it on their MySpace page many years ago). As far as that "Disorder" album, I do kinda see what you mean that it had that playful dark "vibe" that Switchblade Symphony had though it doesn't really sound "goth" to me personally, just sounds like EBM with an "exotic" feel to it though I imagine hearing goth guitar strings in it and it would so work but she just doesn't seem all that interested in putting goth into her sound.
Haha this talk about Chiasm made me remember Ayria, another Industrial EBM act from the early 2000s.
No. 374544
>>373377>The Cramps goth?Personally all the songs I've heard from them just don't have "goth" elements in them at all. Historically they were the ones who created the psychobilly genre but psychobilly isn't a goth genre, it's just the combination of punk, garage, and rockabilly drenched with a horror theme in visuals. The only reason why people think the Cramps are goth are either the zoomers who thinks this because it was used for Wednesday Addams (who isn't even a goth, sorrynotsorry) and/or people who confuse psychobilly as goth because they're too focused on the darker aesthetic that many of the musicians adorn themselves in. That said, there's no shame in liking the music, I'm quite fond of it myself.
>Miguel and the Living DeadOh wow, I remember this band kek. Yeah no, they definitely did add goth elements into their music, not all of their songs but nonetheless, that's how they differ from The Cramps who mostly played it straight with the Rockabilly influence in their music. I agree, they were unique.
No. 374672
>>374544Cramps have sometimes guitar sounding akin to what is heard in gothic rock albeit very lightly but that could be explained psychodelic rock part of roots of both genres. Some 70s horror movies psychodelic rock tracks.
Speaking of which "Le Frisson Des Vampires" had pretty moody psychodelic soundtrack that can cause confusion in brains that are familiar with goth but not so much with psychodelic as they have elements that were sported in many goth tracks. When I hear them brain is expecting punk riffing to start any moment. But that of course never arrives. It's like never-ending cliffhanger.
Some bands like Sad Lovers and Giants or The Chameleons have a lot of that psychodelic rock heritage in their sound. This Bosnian band in vidrel from times of Yugoslavia has psychodelic rock influence more than evident. It's 1982 so it's pretty early in whole goth, or how it was called in Yugoslavia (and generally in satellite states of Soviet Union and in Soviet Union itself) "cold wave" bussines.
More modern examples of psychodelic rock heavy influenced bands would probably be Second Still. Their track Recover is dipped in psychodely especially part after third minut mark, notice bass line.
>>374538>Personally I don't consider Neoclassical music as "goth music", just another branch of classical music that happens to be popular with some goths (and just darkly-inclined people in general). Degree of ""neo-classicism" varied a lot. Mors Syphilitica for example were incorporating neo clssicism and operatic singing with rather strong goth.
Sopor Aethernus on the other hand was heavy on noeclassicism, goth rock background of author is evident but is not the main dominating building element, so here interpretations is this within goth genre may vary.
>Yeah I see what you mean here, a lot of modern goth music tends to play it straight with the post-punk fused with darkwave and though personally I don't mind because I do like it, it'd be cool to see some slight experimentation (while keeping to the goth rock foundation).Ye, that conservatism in sound was fresh in early-mid '00s after two decades of heavy mixing with other genres but it gets old after a while when you attended some festivals for several years and you are realizing that many bands are sounding very alike each other. I can still have fun dancing to them in clubs but I have a growing hunger for novelty or at least more creativity.
>AyriaYes, I remember that act too.
Late '90s and early '00s were times of heavy mixing of industrial influences. In Europe Dark Trance was also invading dance floors at mixed dark dancing events where goth was played together with industrial stuff.
No. 382833
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>>382788not even into goth but i agree. i was into punk, and it's the same thing there. the "rules" for "being punk" were so absurd, you look like a fool with your carbon-copy jacket you studded and patched up and 100 gallons of hair spray and gel and all that.
No. 382863
>>382788I don't know anyone who wears it daily. Even IBF admitted to not wearing it daily. Also both of that couple do not wear it daily. Attempts on wearing it daily would destroy skin of most people. During 5 days of festivals (WGT and GPP) in Leipzig it's not unusual to see people going thick makeup only for few first days. Last day or two you see a lot of "potato" no makeup faces.
>>382833Well, goths are still punks just like any other branch of punk. But let's concentrate on that look aspect you mentioned.
I see the point. Ye, sometimes I'm browsing Instagram I wonder why there are so many profile with people who look alike - i mean almost identical clothing mixed with same hairstyle and makeup cliches. But there are also many people who get creative with look. They are risking and it's also not easy psychologically to create something on your own as not following some "common standard" often provokes in them questioning own authenticity ironically.
What I see in clubs differs from Instagram anyway. Ironically I often do not see many of these Instagram goths in clubs or at gigs. They seem to function in separate world. Dunno what is the real reason. Are they unaware of local scene or is their social anxiety too big or they are busy in life with other stuff. I certainly understand too well that univ/collage education can eat a lot of time and energy.
As for dress code scene in my country does not give too much fuck about the way you dress. No one would throw you out of venue for attending it in pair of shorts and Hawaii shirt. And yes, I have seen people dressed more or less like that example. From what I been reading online not every country has that much laid back scenes and in some cases there were examples of not letting in people because of color of visible shoe sole being white or other piece of clothing not conforming to some dress code of the event.
Scenes differ a lot between countries. Let's compare two of biggest European goth scenes which happen also to neighbor each other. That review is of course highly biased and should not betaken too seriously.
Like in Germany it's notorious to see German grufties standing whole concert like they get a stick freshly installed you know where. Not all are like that (especially when they been around for a while) but they have tendencies to behave in very reserved and phlegmatic manner during gigs.
In neighbor to Germany - Poland you would see much more energy in the crowd and mosh pits are not unusual especially in larger venues. Yes, Poles for real would mosh to Peter Murphy singing slower songs of Bauhaus. They did that back in 2018.
To get a mosh pit in Germany at goth gig usually takes some more energetic foreigners. If there is no pit in Poland seeing like half of the public dancing halfway the set list is a commonplace in that country.
Seeing that much energy in Germany is much more rare view and when happens it kinda look like they participate in some military drill as they have tendency to synchronizing everything from clapping to directions they swing their bodies.
Ordung stronk, I guess.
On the other hand Germans often get much more elaborate at the way they dress. And I don't necessarily mean they dress in a way that requires more money (there is big difference in wages in Poland and Germany) - they have a lot of DIY in wardrobes. Maybe they compensate for much more reserved behavior that way. Dunno.
No. 385037
>>374680There were also terms like "indie" used in this video, also you can frequently encounter "alternative" to describe goth bands from back in the '80s.
There were also "swampies" in Australia.
No. 386613
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Do you think there’s something to the idea of a goth mentality? Or goth perspective? Goth philosophy? Like being aware and not afraid of death, being open minded to new things, appreciating the darker aspects of life, etc?
No. 386883
>>386613>Do you think there’s something to the idea of a goth mentality? No. At lest not any more than heavy metal mentality, jazz mentality, italo disco mentality or stamp collectors mentality. Many goths differ in their goth bands taste. There are bands I love there are bands I see as total trash while other goths love them. Goths differ in fashion sense and taste. Some prefer ghastly ghoulish smudgy makeup and wear distressed unironed clothing others accept only instagram perfect lines and counturing done with help of a ruler and an angle and ridicule anything else. Some are skinwalking some famous goth band members some have totally unique clothing and makeup style you never seen before. Some wear just normie clothing in dark colors without any makeup, some look like plain normies when attending events, some follow totally random fashion styles you don't normally associate with mainstream or goths.
>Or goth perspective? What perspective? Goth is diverse in sounding due to different influences of different scenes around the world and music interests of band members. They come from broad social backgrounds. They have broad spectrum of education. Some have higher, some ended ended education at middle school. Some are well paid, some are living on welfare for decades.
>Goth philosophy? Like being aware and not afraid of death, being open minded to new things, appreciating the darker aspects of life, etc?Many goths are afraid of death. Many goths are also narrow minded. There are goths who love visiting torture devices museums and many that would not like being in one at all.
There are goths who are unironically into occult. There are many who see occult as bullshit. There are atheists, there are religious ones.
There are anacaps, there are commies, there are centrists, there are greens, there are christian democrats, there are neo nazis, there are apolitical who don't give a fuck. There are altruists, there are egoists.
There are these who participate in events like gigs and dance nights and these who never been to one and have no desire to even attend them.
There are anorectics, there are morbidly obese, there are body builders and there are ones with below average muscle mass.
There are extroverts, there are many introverts.
Some of goths get rude when drunk, some get even more sad than they are usually. Some don't drink at all.
You could meet goths that you would have a lot in common and could spend hours talking with them and you could meet these you have nothing in common at all, with some you would have no topic for discussion at all and all communication between you that make sense would be exchange of sentences like "cool gig" or "nice makeup" and that would be about all.
No. 387196
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>>386613Honestly no, because you don't have to be a goth to be aware of the reality of death and appreciating the darker things in life. I've met people who love things like darker poetry and gothic literature and horror movies but have absolutely no interest in goth music at all and to me, that is the difference between a goth and someone who is simply darkly-inclined. Dark inclination is kind of a given for us goths since the backdrop for the music is dark imagery and vibe but the music just won't be for everyone.
>>386883>There are bands I love there are bands I see as total trash while other goths love them.You've got me curious, which bands do you not like that other goths do tend to like? lol
No. 387307
>>387196I won't list my "favorites" here but answer in general what are typical "
problematic" bands. There are many polarizing bands here and there in Europe - like German Umbra et Imago, German Blutengel, Polish Closterkeller, Belarussian Molchat Doma, Russian Kino, Czech XIII Stoleti, Virgin in Veil from Finland. Out of the USA I would like to point out that post Rozz Christian Death is also controversial.
Going more general on criticism now. There are goths who do not tolerate metal influences at all. Other goths can't stand synth centric bands. Others have issues with bands if they "sound like carbon copy of Sisters of Mercy". Others have issues if band uses drum machine instead of live drummer. Some have issues with dumb lyrics sometimes entering full blown graphomania zone especially if mixed with attitude of being deadly serious "we doin real art bro" style. You know - kitschy but not in ironic way. Imagine a redneck in trucker cap and cargo shorts in restaurant on black tie event who acts like wearing a white tie grade outfit. Yes, there are examples of THIS nonironic kitsch among bands.
No. 387838
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>>283110Around 15 years ago there was a lot of confusion what goth is even in English speaking sphere. Industrial and even metal (Type 0 Negative, Nightwish) were often called as goth. Things were even more complicated outside of English speaking countries. I was actually unaware that I was liking goth songs up until my very late teens. They were often played on the radio up until even mid '00s. The fact that no one was using term goth toward them did not help. No one was using that term as these were mostly '80s songs and in this part of world back in the '80s term goth was unknown it was called Cold Wave or New Wave (and that New Wave did not mean stuff like synth pop or happy guitar post punk - New Wave meant here back in the '80s exactly the same that Cold Wave). Fans of cold wave were using term "punk" as self identification. Yes, just punk. That additionally complicated things. Up to this day I sometimes meet these punks who been around gigs and festivals in the '80s who are surprised when term goth is used toward local bands and some who did not had a contact with scene since like middle '80s even when referring to UK bands like Bauhaus, Siouxie and the Banshees etc. It was all Cold Wave to them. It was term they were familiar. Usage of term "goth" came much later where they been busy with other stuff in their life so they never been operating with term "goth". It sometimes creates funny dialogues when two people from different generations are talking about same music but are unaware of that because each operates different definitions of same terms.
No. 387841
continuing
>>387838Lemme play some songs of local tribe back from the days where cold wave movement was rebelling against communist order
No. 387960
>>387838>>387841>>387842>>387844>>387847>>387849>>387850>>387912>>387914Ily fellow Polish
nonnie. I think it's cool that the Polish "goth"/cold wave scene was so political. It adds more weight to the subculture although as you said it was lumped with punk. I'm a zoomer and it's kind of sad that other "goths" my age usually don't know any of this music. I've had some acquaintances insist how it's important to listen to the so called goth music but it didn't go beyond them listening to The Cure or The Sisters of Mercy or sometimes
o zgrozo Closterkeller if they cared about Polish music. It's sad that cold wave is lost on them because it just adds to the homogenization of culture. Surely it's much more genuine and interesting when each country's scene is unique. Nothing wrong with being interested in western, English speaking bands only but it does come across like there's twitter/tiktok influence at play. Perhaps it's just the crowd I've ran into.
You can probably tell that I'm kinda bitter about this, so I'll stop.
No. 387977
>>387960Goth was as you phrased that "lumped" with punk as goth is a form of punk just like hard core is punk, crust is punk and other mutations are punk. These labels originated later than music trends itself. Some trends were uncoordinated and emerged in many places around the world because well some ideas would be realized by different people around same time because they are pretty obvious development. Adding a lot of reverb on vocal is not a rocket science and you don't have to listen to any Joy Division or Bauhaus album to do so. A lot of spookiness of goth rock comes from psychodelic rock that was a strong trend in rock music of the late 60's and in the 70's. Sometimes influence was direct, sometimes it was trough krautrock. You can also hear influences of reggae in a lot of Bauhaus stuff including "Bella Lugosi is dead". Other widespread technique was umm "adding noise" chaotic patterns, notes, random noises on frets. New York "no wave" scene was notorious for such stuff. South Californian "death rock" was also doing similar stuff but in own way. I'm using apostrophes around "no wave" and "death rock" because I want to highlight that these names were not defining the sound in any way not limiting creations of bands, they were not names of genres but way for people participating in the scene to say "you know, our music we are doing around here and we think we have some amount of characteristics in common but we are not aiming for uniform sounding so we may differ in way we play, we also tend to use that name for foreign bands who approach music in similar manner". Just compare Christian Death and 45 Grave. They are not that similar in approach to music. You can for example hear surf rock elements in 45 Grave, Hammond organ, church organ parts etc. Both from o called "SoCal Death Rock". Same time people in California was referring to Bauhaus as Death Rock too.
British Specimen was full of glam rock sound. Which was not that widespread among other bands. Alien Sex Fiend while staying within what we see today as gothic rock had a lot of elements typical for early industrial.
Most of early goth bands were founded by people who were into 70s punk or already had story of participating in that scene. It means they been attending gigs of other bands and other bands knew them and their music. Punk crowd was not that big in size in early days and people were notorious for sticking together as they were standing out of generic crowd like a sore thumb. Amount of venues where band could play was very limited. That was also a thing in Poland in the '80s. Every band was affected by music members liked and what other local scene bands been playing and general history of rock music in given place of the world.
What we today see as "separation" from punk is mostly a result of the fact that as fan base grew and new bands came to the scene they tended to hang around fans of similar sounds and similar bands. Not because someone decided "we are separate genre now, let's stop talking to others".
A lot of confusion and attempts on "creation of separate goff genres" is a result of not understanding the history of goth music and rock music in general especially what was happening in rock prior to formation of goth rock scenes. You for real can hear a lot of stuff we associate with "goth rock sounding" in many different rock stuff from the 1970s.
No. 388624
>>388530
>but I hardly ever see these young'ins go beyond the basic 4 and I hate to be "that" person but it makes me wonder if they are really into goth or just into it to make TikToks.There is one simple test for that - do you ever see them at gigs or at club nights.
On side note have you seen cases of zoomers going to events then to nearest mirror, taking selfies and leaving venue?
No. 389946
>>389276Kek Okay fair point, I'm not that old but I'm not in my 20s anymore and I don't stay up as late as I used to is all. I guess switch "age" for "energy" kek.
>>389808That's awesome to hear anon. Nice to see that there are more zoomers actually participating and not being some trend hopper trying to become "goth influencer"
No. 393478
>>393368Minicave (Munster, Rhine-Westphalia) is quite far, so that one could be less likely to get visited. As for Leipzig where GPF is hosted it's literally the same city. And Wrocław is not that far away from Leipzig tho it's 5h with change of travel but stay is and was much cheaper than anything in Germany. I just measured car/bus travel. Plane flight would be much faster of course.
Dunno, maybe she was earning much less than many think or just did not attend for some other reasons.
For sure all three festivals would be interesting content for vlogs.
And changing somewhat topic - are there any goth centred festivals in France?
No. 395183
>>393016IMO Freyja is no longer goth. Her old videos were better. She showed people how to upcycle clothes or gave opinions on bands. These days she shills for Romwe, Killstar and Temu. Goth isn't just about the outfits but she's pushing that idea now. She doesn't represent the goth community and is on par with
Toxic Tears.
No. 395331
>>395183That's quite the opinion to share anon but to be honest, I feel you have a point. I do think that while goth is about the music and will always be, it doesn't mean you have to only limit yourself to just the music and that you can listen to other stuff alongside goth music like I'm sure most of us do. But with Freya, she hasn't talked about the music in like 5 years. When she was in Germany, she didn't really go to local goth scenes to share the music (along with the experience). Sure she plays the music in her videos as background music but at this point, it wouldn't be surprising if she only ever uses the music for the videos but doesn't actually listen to it much in her life, at least not much anymore.
You're absolutely right that all she does is shill for clothing brands and makeup. Nothing actually tied to the goth scene because at the end of the day clothing brands like Killstar, Romwe, and Temu are not "goth" clothing, it's general alternative that can be used for any alternative style, it doesn't actually support the goth scene in any meaningful way at all. Heck I'm surprised she hasn't even done a top 10 goth band video nor does she talk about new new goth albums and the few she made videos for music, it was Motionless in White, Marilyn Manson, and some Metal band (can't remember their name but I think it had "Goat" in it's name). And she can't use the excuse that nobody would watch if she talked about goth music because that's not true at all.
So I totally get why you think that Freya is no longer a goth and she's pretty much just an older
Toxic Tears. She more than likely was into goth when she was younger but I think overtime she lost interest. And even if she doesn't mean to, she really does give the shallow representation that goth is about clothes and living in some spooky decorated house.
No. 395678
>>395332Depeche Mode, kek. Her outfit looks like she searched Temu for 'goth clothing' and bought all of it. tbh she didn't match it well and it appears to be a costume. You're right, the makeup style is copied from Pinterest. These people show no originality or effort. She said she's into romantic goth. There's a world of difference between 2000s romantic goth, and today's 'interpretation'. This generation takes their cue from Killstar. She doesn't talk about music, it's just the fashion and prob. done to shock her Christian family.
I'm annoyed people can be 'goth' for the look because it's edgy. Goth started out as a music-based culture and these weebs can't even acknowledge that.
No. 395737
>>395678AYRT and yeah, "Temu" is the best word for this look. When you look at people who are actually into goth, they tend to be a little more creative with their looks because they are actually investing time into the music and taking inspiration from musicians but also mixing that with other quirks that they personally like. They don't tend to go for a full-on "goth in the box" kind of look compared to people who clearly only do the look for attention and buy from Temu, Aliexpress, and Killstar to where it looks like a costume and they film TikTok videos in.
>You're right, the makeup style is copied from Pinterest.It's just so obvious. The makeup just all looks the same and I had to put two and two together of where I've seen it which was Pinterest lol.
>She said she's into romantic goth. There's a world of difference between 2000s romantic goth, and today's 'interpretation'.As someone who loves Romantic Goth, I've gotta be honest that there's been a long-time of misappropriation of what Romantic Goth is. To me, when I think of "romantic goth", it's mixing trad goth with romantic elements. Incorporating ore lace and/or crushed velvet paired with winklepickers and big teased or intricate sharp makeup. Simply throwing on a black gown with lace trim and slapping on a corset and black heels is not "romantic goth" to me but I digress.
It's clear it's more of a shock value thing to her family and she'll either actually get more into what goth is truly about or she'll drop the whole thing and move to the next thing.
No. 395858
>>395183>IMO Freyja is no longer goth.That is hard to tell given her knowledge and use of goth rock bands music as background music. She seems to be mostly into SoM "clones" tho. Which were notorious (aside for "deathrock revival") for late '90s to late '00s like nowadays everyone tries hard to be more '80s than '80s. Fashion wise she stopped developing her style like a decade ago. She's fashionwise like mix of early '90s German scene with some additions of '00s dark independent fashion especially strong pre moving out of NZ. Nemesis Now with Alchemy Gothic were at peak popularity.
>>395332People you are describing been around in the '70s already orbiting near punk scene. Such attitude is older than Lip Service brand.
No. 395887
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>>395737Picrel is from Jeannie Nitro, a site I found in the early 2000s. The Morticia dress with boots and the bloke with winklepickers is what I meant. The corset and lace thing happened later in the 2000s. Although when searching Romantic goth those are the examples we're given. The bands I listened to wore Romantic bordering medieval goth and that's why I liked them. My staples were Tristania, The 3rd And The Mortal, Miranda Sex Garden. I still listen to symphonic bands(just the older stuff because these days they sound like edgy pop).
>or she'll drop the whole thing and move to the next thing.tbh that's where I see her going. She's not into the music so there's nothing to keep her interested, she's doing it for the attention. She said she always liked horror so maybe she'll drop the Instagoth look for darkly inclined.
No. 395888
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>>395737This outfit is something I would have worn minus the winklepicker boots(they don't fit my wide feet). Picrel is from defunct site Black Rose Clothing. I used to visit a site called Antimony & Lace. She's a romantic goth that taught DIY projects like making a pirate shirt from a t-shirt or creating a necklace from cooked roses. She was a good inspiration and encouraged me to sew and alter my clothes. She did have a Facebook group but took it down last year and her site is no longer available. I think these new goths could learn a thing or two about DIY. We didn't have a Killstar or Dark In Closet. We had to thrift stuff and add to it, or buy from the mall and change it so it wasn't noticeable. Not to mention waiting 6-12 weeks for boots to arrive in the mail, kek.
No. 395966
>>395858>Freya>SoM clonesYeah it's pretty clear that she favors that 90s sound of goth rock and I don't hate it since I like that sound as well though I need to keep things varied so I don't get too bored of it so I tend to rote but with Freya, she has not done a video on the music in years and in recent times she's only talked about non-goth music. So I totally understand why the other anon thinks that Freya may not be an actual goth anymore and it just like the instagoths nowadays. And that's ignoring the underbelly drama of her potentially scamming people that's been a discussion in the altcows thread.
>People you are describing been around in the '70s already orbiting near punk scene. Such attitude is older than Lip Service brand.Oh I'm aware that it was around back then but I feel like it's just even more obvious in the modern day because of fast fashion.
No. 395971
File: 1715067670773.jpg (35.38 KB, 323x756, plain_as_fuck_pointy_stilettos…)
Dressing romantic back in the '90s while only thrifting was a bit easier as there was still mass of pieces from the '80s and '70s circulating, ocasionally even the '60s stuff. These were times of strong neo victorian (sometimes called "witchy") and neo edwardian influences on mainstream fashion. Nowadays we can still hit the late '80s/early '90 stuff but the '70s are like winning at the lottery.
As for shoes - I don't understand the obsession of wearing "goth pikes" or not wearing anything. There been dozens of types of shoes worn back in the '80s scene that were not your "boots we call goth pikes nowadays". Plain pointy stilettos one can buy easily also today was worn on may pictures from that era both worn by band members (plenty of photos of Patricia Morrison for exmaple) and night cub regulars Batcave included. Last time I have seen them being worn by goth was… umm… I don't remember seeing them worn by any goth in like a decade. Siouxie been wearing knee high high heel boots in the photo session, western boots as well. Both of these are pretty easily available nowadays even in offer of regular brands, no need to look for fetish wear section. I have checked some popular brands in my country for pointed toes shoes and get several dozens of models. It's like people developed taboo which forbids them from wearing "regular shoes from regular stores" it has to be pikes, New Rocks, Killstar or at least combat boots. Everything else - verbotten! Dunno why it became like this. Even skinwalkers are often copying all these stars of the past but not in shoes part even if they can buy them off the shelf even in smallest towns with ease same as buying veggies and bread.
No. 396004
File: 1715087172653.png (86.52 KB, 720x777, Screenshot_20240506-205722~2.p…)
>>395899As a teen I lived in a small town and there wasn't a goth scene nearby. Like most 2000s teens we had to look online for input. I was part of a Yahoo goth group and I think someone mentioned lilibat's website. imo the problem with zoomers is they have everything at their fingertips. They can click on a pair of shoes and have them in a few days. They didn't have to save their paycheck for weeks so they could buy that one expensive item. And you'd wear it to death so that's when the patches and sewing came in. There were some brands available online but they were too pricey. Zoomers don't make their own looks. Most aren't into the music so the inspiration doesn't come from that. It comes from TikTok and Instagram. They hang out with other posers and not real Goths, so no one can give them useful tips. They throw on a Hirajuku costume and think How many TikTok likes will I get? The reality of necessity isn't there for them. Granted there are some who live in a small country or town that has limited goth music etc. I'm talking as a whole, this new generation look like hipsters.
No. 396049
File: 1715102490252.jpg (63.28 KB, 949x1200, RoseMortem.jpg)
>>395887AYRT and I have seen a few clothes from Jeanie Nitro and that's totally fair, I see what you meant. Another main clothing brand I think of when I hear "Romantic Goth" is Rose Mortem (picrel). The fact that that the designer was in an goth band (The Awakening) really showed through with a lot of how she styled the dresses giving that "Romantic + goth" vibe I mentioned as well. I'm still sad that I never was able to get a dress from her since she closed down her shop back in 2019.
>tbh that's where I see her going. She's not into the music so there's nothing to keep her interested, she's doing it for the attention. She said she always liked horror so maybe she'll drop the Instagoth look for darkly inclined.Right, as I said this is what I've noticed a lot with gen z who get into music-based subcultures like goth, punk, and metal who only care about the clothes and making edgy Tiktok videos where because they don't engage and take an active interest in the music, they have no genuine connection to the scene and it's why they jump from style to style in a short amount of time vs someone who gets into the subculture for the music and tend to stay a tad longer.
No. 396053
>>395888AYRT and I never heard of Black Rose Clothing (tried looking it up but couldn't find it but that look you shared totally would pass as Romantic Goth in my opinion, thanks for sharing. The store owner sounded like she was a great inspiration for sure and it's a shame she's no longer around, I would've loved to check her out. What you said about the thrifting though, that is so true. Funny enough Angela Benedict made a recent video talking about this where she noted how back then when thrifting was more affordable, the old goth scene participants were able to come up with all kinds of looks that didn't look similar and were more varied and unique while still retaining a few key goth staples.
I feel like this is another reason why Gen Z just doesn't have that "heart" of goth neither (not all of course, you know what I mean lol) and again, contributes to why they don't have a genuine connection with the scene as part of the scene encouraged DIY and creativity.
No. 396055
>>395955There were somewhat big brands back in the day, you're not wrong there but still they were pretty pricey and most would still rely on thrifting or really using their creative juices to craft looks from DIYing basic generic clothes. At most, unless you had a lot of money to throw away, most people would save up for one or two of the more expensive gothic brand stuff. Some big brand names I remember besides the aforementioned Rose Mortem, were MorbidThreads, Ipso-Facto, Lip Service (they had a few things back in the day that could be used for a Romantic Goth outfit), The Crypt, and Shrine (now called "Shrine of Hollywood) and while many of the clothes offered in these places were very wanted, they were so expensive so we made due with what we could with DIY and thrifting while saving up for one of these brands for like birthdays and Christmas' haha.
>>395958>Strawberry SwitchbladeI do agree that the corset and lace thing was around but do people really think Strawberry Switchblade are goth? Because they aren't, they were like new wave/synth pop.
No. 396056
File: 1715103777384.jpg (113.19 KB, 537x781, gothboy.jpg)
No. 396060
>>396053>AYRT and I never heard of Black Rose Clothing You can find old webpages of most popular brands archived on archive.org site. There are even 1998 and 1999 archived versions of Retail Slut shop webpage. What is nice about such pages is that they used to have links to other websites of similar themes so once you find one of such pages you get a chain of links to other oldschool web pages with many old photos that are no longer circulating in mainstream internet. There are many looks that would cause a heart attack in many instagram perfection obsessed individuals as the '90s were still not stranger to more zombiefied ghoulish looks that only minority of goths do nowadays. Think looks of bands like Alien Sex Fiend or Neva, heck even Cinema Strange.
Try looking for archived webpages of older still running brands they may have interesting outgoing links that might have been archived.
No. 396063
File: 1715104515670.jpg (61.48 KB, 500x672, Suspiria.jpg)
The singer from Suspiria, I feel like he was a good example of a male Romantic goth. He's had the coat and boots down.
No. 396064
>>396060This is true, anon. I forgot to mention archive.org for the websites. Lilibat's site was originally 313.net and she changed it to Antimony & Lace. Website link to enter in archive.org for the nostalgia.
https://www.gothfashion.info/I remember trying to make the tattered skirt and my dad flipping out because I cut up my clothes.
No. 396071
>>396055>I do agree that the corset and lace thing was around but do people really think Strawberry Switchblade are goth? Because they aren't, they were like new wave/synth pop.Goth is New Wave as New Wave is broader basket than Goth. In my country our original goth bands were calling themselves "New Wave" back in the '80s.
Musically SS is not goth. Fashionwise - inspired as McDowall been participating in goth and also industrial scene both at that point and later in life. They also been one of western inspirations (inspirations as there been already "proto lolita" trends running for a while when SS became a one hit wonder in Japan) that shaped more modern lolita fashion including gothic lolita. I don't think it would be controversial to claim that SS also inspired some Brit goths.
>>396058I understand nona. I'm just tired of endless rivers of tears cried over "it's hard to get tradgoth pointy goth shoes that are goth as fuck" that I have seen plenty of in recent years. Just go to random footwear store if you are female. Males in case of "mainstream shops" are mostly limited to biker or cowboy boots in pointy resort tho there are also some smaller mainstream brands that still do pointy male formal shoes. BTW pointy shoes mania started somewhere in 1950s and before *billes revival they been sported by several groups.
>>396063Yea, historic inspired additions were big in that trend.
No. 396073
>>396053Black rose clothing was around but I don't know when the site died. Pic of the Romantic goth dress with winkle boots were pulled from Tumblr. Someone found or saved a few pics. I like the girl with purple Nina Hagen type hair.
https://www.tumblr.com/witchrealms/743940781644054528/xThat site did a good job of Romantic goth/witchy imo.
No. 396082
>>396062Yes my docs were the most expensive item in my wardrobe. I had a friend from school that let me borrow her winklepickers and I was in agony before the day was out. I decided it wasn't worth the pain of looking über goth, and screw anyone who said I wasn't. I still wear docs because they are comfortable.
I don't hate the new gen for finding music online. That's where I found mine including Darkwave bands like Dead Can Dance and Love Spirals Downwards. Our local music store only had Marylin Manson, Depeche Mode, Tool and Godsmack. And I agree Gen Z only has a few seconds clip of whatever is trending on TikTok.
>that is what sorta killed the spirit of getting into alternative subcultures out of pure interest and intrigueAgreed. In some places it was taboo or considered satanic. I had to do a lot of research to convince my dad that I wasn't drinking blood from a skull. When I was a kid I saw a Romantic goth girl in the shop. She seemed mysterious and otherworldly and I was too scared to tell her I liked her style. I was intrigued by her. She seemed to be from another time and I didn't know people could dress opposite of how my parents dressed me. I'm glad too that I was around before Tiktok and Instagram.
No. 396094
>>396092Ah, thanks for info nona!
>and last about the same time that regular docs will last you.Not sure if that's a pro or con
No. 396095
>>396053I see the same problem in the UK. It started with these Budget Your Life gurus on TV. They told people about thrift shopping and that's when stores began to change. Now they charge boutique prices for second hand clothes! I had a convo with a girl about this. She only shops at Traid when everything goes on sale. She said they charge extortionate amounts for a dress and it isn't a new. The shop owners get donations free, then search the item online and price it. That's a shitty thing to do considering people go there because they can't afford it. And they say 'it's this or that price online.' I didn't ask the price compared to online. It's true that high street shops are now cheaper than thrift stores. Gen Z doesn't know the thrill of finding that one unique item that isn't anywhere else. As a thrifting teen I'd get comments like Omg where did you get that? And the joy of saying I found it second hand. Now you don't need to ask where they found it. It's obvious it came from Killstar or Temu. I used to look at the lingerie too. I had a floor length one that I'd wear with a crinoline, paired with a flowy top and hiding the front with a bustier. No one knew I was wearing a night gown unless I told them. They just thought it was a dress.
I still thrift but I don't go to the posh ones. It's a shame this generation is so generic, but their idea of goth is generic as well.
No. 396113
File: 1715115840325.jpg (219.99 KB, 720x794, 585045-3378522157.jpg)
>>396102Poland is notorious for having multitude of producers of "steel toed combat boots" or how we call them "glany" (from German "glanz" - "to shine"). You can buy them in various variants of height from shoes reaching ankle ankle to long boots with 20 and even 30 eyelets if you fancy such entertaining activity that lacing is. Some of producers also make boots with similar air pocket rubber soles as Dr Martens.
For like half the price of Dr Martens or cheaper. Probably similar or better quality and better more natural finish.
No. 396115
File: 1715116030458.jpg (289.3 KB, 874x1291, il_1080xN.5036222381_pg6h~2.jp…)
>>396049I remember Rose Mortem but hadn't realised she closed her shop. That is a shame. I like the style of Rose's dress. It definitely gives me 90s to early 2000s Romantic vibes. idk if they sell this online currently. If they do it might be cheap AliExpress rags. I think many quality goth shops are closing down due to the rise in fabric prices. It's cheaper to buy something online than to sew from scratch, unfortunately.
No. 396117
>>396106AFAIK they are made in China nowadays except for a line that is explicitly named something like English made/made in England.
Same goes with brand T.U.K. Made in China too. Nice creeper's designs but their soles break after few dance nights unfortunately, so they are strictly for activities like shopping or not too long walks.
No. 396120
File: 1715116728513.jpg (25.28 KB, 375x500, glany.jpg)
>>396113Glany are still made in Poland and you can contact producer if you want to have buckles added. You can ask to put studs on them and/or winter insulation layer. If you want to be called a poseur you can also order them with side zipper. LOL
No. 396121
>>396063Oh, I would love to have his coat. But thinking how much it would cost to sew makes me cry.
>>396113I like these boots! My first docs were a bit similar; very sturdy and lasted years. They almost had a military feel to them. I used to visit army surplus shops for those types of boots but they changed the style. They stopped the rounded toe and made them more narrow. I'll have a look for boots in Poland. Doc Martens have cashed in on the name and the quality has gone down.
They were known for their durability but not anymore.
No. 396125
File: 1715117699125.webp (32.37 KB, 600x800, buty-czarne-wysokie-kot-optimi…)
>>396121>I'll have a look for boots in PolandLook for brands Nagaba or Steady's. There is also Steel but it's a controversial brand quality wise and due to finish they are using. If you are in EU or UK there should not be any problem with shipping.
There is Polish glany maker that moved to the UK (he started years ago in Kraków [Cracow]) that is hand manufacturing in semi bespoke manner a very D.I.Y. punk looking boots that is selling his creations under brand name of Cockney's but they are very expensive as he is not running serial production like other Polish manufacturers are. Picrel is an example of one of his models with UwU kitty. Adorable if you ask me.
No. 396130
>>396094Mine lasted 6 years of almost daily wear, the sole is broken now on one foot, but it's been going through stuff. I would say if you happen to be able to get some older Docs not made in China you should buy them.
>>3960966 months? I've worn mine nearly daily for 6 years now and they started to fall apart recently, because of the work I do. But that being said, mine were made in Vietnam and not China and as far as I've read up on it, the quality declined extremely with them being made in China.
>>396106Kek, would be funny, but no, to quote what they wrote "Virginia is a soft, fine-grain leather that's treated to make it smooth and supple". It's just a different treated form of leather, it's softer and not so sleek.
>>396113Do some of them come without steel toes? I need new boots, but steel toes are too heavy for my daily life, but I would love to buy stuff made in Europe.
No. 396140
File: 1715121495529.jpg (48.24 KB, 460x570, pol_pm_glany-STEADYS-15-dziure…)
>>396130>Do some of them come without steel toes? I need new boots, but steel toes are too heavy for my daily life, but I would love to buy stuff made in Europe.Majority of them come with steel toes, but you can order models without steel toe cap. I have seen series without toe caps made in the past. I don't see them online currently so I guess you would have to ask producers individually. Not adding a steel cap should not be an issue IMHO it's not a very significant change in manufacturing and they offer custom orders so there should be a pretty high chance they can make you a pair without steel caps.
>>396132You can buy trough Rock Metal Shop (a well established online alt shop in Poland) - it has google translate option on page so you can navigate site in English and I would expect that they should be able to handle eventual correspondence in English too. Here is a link to all Steady's boots in their offer
https://rockmetalshop.pl/firm-pol-1314603508-STEADYS.html You may try asking on their FB page if they can contact producer for you so you can order 30 eyelets model with buckles. I don't see why they would not be interested in doing so. I know that they been contacting New Rock in the past related to their models in offer.
Official online shop of producer of Steady's is mentioning that to get your order shipped abroad you have to contact them by mail, they have contact e-mail mentioned at
https://rockglany.com/pl/i/Kontakt/15 it's sklep( a t )rockglany.com Try writing them in English put "W sprawie wysyłki glanów za granicę" in subject and write mail itself in English.
Both shops have 30 eyelets without buckles models in offer for same price 499PLN which is about 115 Euros. So if no buckles is fine go for Rock Metal Shop. It has models with buckles up to 15 eyelets. And also some other types of shoes and boots from same producer.
No. 396143
File: 1715123560728.jpg (51.71 KB, 732x1000, buty-motocyklowe-r3k.jpg)
If someone is into motorbike style boots that are versatile enough to be worn outside of bike saddle this producer has classic "chopper" harness style boots as well as more modern styles that can be alternative for New Rocks and cost half NR price
https://sklep.raceboots.pl/10-buty-motocykloweIf you have any questions about stuff you can find made in Poland - feel free to ask. Polish leather and shoe industry is pretty good quality and has long traditions with attractive prices. And that covers not only boots/shoes but also coats, jackets, classic motorbike clothing, purses etc.
No. 396150
File: 1715125204475.jpg (55.52 KB, 563x998, 5a52ff928a39fe8a37d9e239351668…)
>>396140great info, thanks
nonnie!
>>395887>>396049Does anyone know where to get things similar to this now? I know Jeannie Nitro is still in business and I love them, but I'm a europoor and really would prefer something in the EU.
No. 396159
File: 1715127466979.webp (63.7 KB, 1200x857, 29378h_bordo_crazy_39_4.jpg.we…)
>>396150Hmm it looks not that far from some medieval patterns for dresses (but uses far less fabric, medieval dresses were so darn "fabric hungry"
). Try asking at historical reenactment groups or consult local seamstress regarding how much would it cost to get that made for you. You may also find alt clothing sewing groups on facebook.
>>396140Ah I forget to link to Nagaba shop. They have eng version of their site.
https://nagaba.eu/category/boots-womenThey have velour and other leather types in offer for boots. They should be also open for modifications like buckles etc so try asking them if you are interested in their products.
No. 396160
File: 1715127606972.webp (49.53 KB, 1200x857, 69920h_granat_czarny_kabir_39_…)
>>396159I think their tallest are 20 eyelets
No. 396161
File: 1715127735322.webp (57.7 KB, 1182x857, 1109n_5191_p6lu_01bo_0_42_4.jp…)
>>396160Ok found picrel under buckles category.
No. 396261
File: 1715156098633.jpg (114.33 KB, 546x800, CinamonHadley.jpg)
>>296260>this anon is right, goth fashion just doesn't have that shock value like it used to which is why goth culture is sort of in stasis right now. It also does not have too much edge outside of maybe some European scenes but even there more ghastly punky looks are dominated by instagram perfect outfits and makeup so perfect it makes you ears ring. Remember that back in earlier days looking like you never iron your clothes or like spectre that just left your cemetery coffin was a lot more common. Such looks went almost extinct with middle range of millenials entering the scene and among zoomers they are even more rare. So it went both ways - alt fashion became more acceptable for normies in both senses of that phrase.
But still even nowadays looking like Cinamon Hadley would rise many eyebrows even in most progressive European countries. Normies are nowhere near being used to big bat nest type teased hair. Heck I know goths who are past their 20s who still get comments about their teased goth hairstyles from own families. So guess what impression it makes on far less used to seeing such stuff general public.
No. 396264
File: 1715156956824.jpg (264.17 KB, 934x1383, 6fd56ca8e1ceb66656a5a6c04b3d66…)
>>396263With such hairstyles you will get looks and more or less dumb comments all over Europe including UK and even Germany even in Leipzig during WGT (been there seen and heard that).
No. 396279
File: 1715167814775.webp (54.24 KB, 750x938, 65f74129914c35d183f3c079a5c484…)
>>396150>Does anyone know where to get things similar to this now?You could try looking for a lace bolero(picrel). If you don't mind buying online, most of them cost between £18-£29.
https://www.chachashops.com/products/halloween-gothic-lace-boleroOr this site
https://cutiekillshop.com/products/gothic-lace-elegant-bolero-ah0462If they are too expensive search gothic bolero on Amazon. idk any European shops that would sell this. Some of these gothic shops charge too much. You could try regular shops, they usually have flowy hippie shirts during summer. You could buy it and dye it with black Dylon. Or you could buy black lace fabric and sew it onto the sleeves of a shirt you already have.
https://www.fashionlyfe.com/single-post/2017/05/24/how-to-make-a-bell-sleeve-pattern No. 396284
>>396150Video shows you how to make the bells sleeve from my previous link.
https://youtu.be/I8TPmhManjsIt's easier with a sewing machine but if you are patient you can sew it by hand. You could remove the sleeves from a shirt or dress. Cut fabric and add them to the dress. Some sleeve shapes are circle or triangle.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/1048423988236795194/Pre-made patterns are useful too.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/743023638539461091/If those are too challenging, look for sewing a godet to the sleeve. Godet is a small triangle piece of fabric, it will give the sleeves some flair and it's not too difficult.
No. 396311
File: 1715187844970.jpg (124.51 KB, 793x975, d243e143aca210c1d5d07b2ddd4f15…)
>>396264Add to that zombie style makeup and good luck calling that "socially acceptable"
No. 396551
>>396546>Been to any club recently?Yea, we have plenty of events every month even not counting gig. How about you?
>We're in the exact opposite part of the year to autumn (if you live in the north hemisphere), days are getting longer and warmer… not the best weather for leather, velvet and synthetic lace.That's your opinion. There are also other fabrics and actual lace. Fishnets would do too.
Back to the thread - anyone remember this stuff in vidrel?
No. 396556
>>396551>Yea, we have plenty of events every month even not counting gig. How about you?That's nice, I don't have a local scene so it's been 1 year since I went to an event. I'm pretty much broke so I really can't afford going to places more than 3h away.
>That's your opinion.In my area that's a fact, weather conditions make it that way sadly (+30ºC day and night with humidity). Fishnets are a good substitute if they holes are big.
>anyone remember this stuff in vidrel?I wasn't alive back then, but I saw that compilation a year ago or so and thought that she was so cool. Apparently those Rawtime videos went viral on the clock app and people even tried to reach her out irl.
No. 396562
>>396556>That's nice, I don't have a local scene so it's been 1 year since I went to an event. Tried reaching out to other people? Even in most remote parts of my country there are at least few goths per administrative subdivision. And it's a pretty stereotypical post communist are of the world. Sometimes there are big gaps in age but still a goff is a goff and talking to someone who remembers 80s punk days is interesting as heck when you don't remember such times. Ah yea, try reaching "general" local punks. It's not that rare for them to like some gothic rock especially if they been a while into punk rock.
>I'm pretty much broke so I really can't afford going to places more than 3h away.If you have any colleagues into semi similar music you can party at home or in some desolated empty ruined building with a portable audio device with semi decent speaker.
>In my area that's a fact, weather conditions make it that way sadly (+30ºC day and night with humidity). I remember wearing a pretty tall combat boots for several summers in such temperatures. good old days. Now I'm too lazy to lace them unless I'm going to an event. I also read stories of more hardcore scene members having to "unglue" leather from their bodies after wearing pretty impressive amount of leather in the summer. Some people are hardcore as fuck.
>Fishnets are a good substitute if they holes are big.Aye, big holes and ripped tunic or t-shirts.
No. 396579
File: 1715286012548.png (571.41 KB, 393x609, mirabelledress.png)
>>396562>Tried reaching out to other people?Yeah, but I don't live in a country were goth is relevant, I'm in Europe but not in the central or eastern parts. It's like subcultures died all of a sudden after 2015 here. There used to be a fair amount of punks (anarchists), emos and metal fans but they have all disappeared too. Not even weebs have resisted the 2020s.
>If you have any colleagues into semi similar music you can party at home or in some desolated empty ruined building with a portable audio device with semi decent speaker.Anon, it's not like I haven't thought of that, but I don't have anyone who would do that with me. I'm an avid explored of abandoned urban areas but 99% of people are not at all into that. These days people around me want ''raves'' in conventional festivals, not authentic clandestine parties in decaying buildings, at least that's been my experience so far. But I shall insist some more on that and see who could join me someday.
>Some people are hardcore as fuck.Yeah, in my case I never prioritized looks over comfort, specially when it came to shoes.
>>396565>linenIt feels like linen is the kind of fabric you appreciate more and more as you grow older. If you iron linen clothes they look elegant and antique, plus you don't sweat that much while wearing linen.
No. 396660
File: 1715319749539.jpg (268.43 KB, 1080x1628, bulgariandress.jpg)
>>396581>Linen has been amazing and I can't believe I didn't discover it sooner. It's funny how forgotten it get nowadays considering how common linen was in the past. Very underappreciated material that was allowing Europeans to wear long sleeve even during hot 30°C summers and it was actually helping them keep them cool. Great for dresses, trousers, even two piece suits and shirts.
>>396579Now that made me curious. Goffs exists in Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy. And your description of summer certainly does not sound like anything of Northern Europe.
>>396579>If you iron linenI actually don't unless it has to be worn for very formal occasion [linen shirts are part of formal regional costumes in multiple countries]. It gets good enough shape by just being hung on cloth hanger and it gets creases anyway after an hour or two of walking in it so I just embrace it as it's natural property.
Viscose also seems to be decent for hot days in my experience but dunno how it performs if humidity is actually "tropical high" as on these days I'm mostly bunkered in my house praying for summer to end.
I yet have to try hemp clothing.
High quality not too thick wool was also acting decently but I rarely have it in my wardrobe.
No. 396678
>>396660>Now that made me curious. Goffs exists in Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy.We do have goths in southern Europe but like I said there's no scene in my area and surroundings, and almost no scene outside of the capital. I used to live for a while near the oldest goth club in my country and saturday nights were full of casuals, yet the club was still barely full. The situation was very different 15-20 years ago.
> it gets creases anyway after an hour or two of walking in it I haven't had that experience with pure linen clothes even if I handwash them and block them before drying, that's more of a property linen-cotton blends have.
>>396661That's it!
No. 396681
>>396678depends what level of creases we both have in mind and what is the thickness and density and what cut/fit of clothing
I forget to mention natural silk as warm weather friendly.
No. 396682
>>396680I have seen cases where starting to hold DJ nights with goff rock was enough to gather group of people after few months
but of course demographic factors may differ in other places
yet many areas of Europe "do not have local scene" often because no one ever did anything to actually organize anything - I know numerous cases where I ran into people from various cities in my country that were believing for years that they are the only goths in town. Kinda hilarious when you hear that from yet another 5th-10th person from same city as others who told you same story.
No. 396748
File: 1715357845296.jpg (52.27 KB, 640x826, ea4faa663643ff5fbcaf78400c20a2…)
>>396581>Linen has been amazing and I can't believe I didn't discover it sooner.Picrel is what I generally wear in summer. A cotton or linen blouse. Cotton skirt or dress. I'm well past the idea of wearing velvet or leather in hot weather. I tried that when I was 16 and realised it's not worth getting heat stroke.
No. 396777
>>396680Ayrt I've thought of that too, I created a profile in an app designed to make friends by matching music taste, but even though I was very generous with the area parameter I didn't find anyone interesting. Lots of guys into metal, barely any truly alternative people. And I think that's very indicative of the state of the subculture here the fact that I don't see any goth teens. Actually, I don't see many alternative teenagers at all, even the couple of random e-girls seem to be in their early twenties, kids coming from school all dress normie as shit.
>I don't think we'll ever have the scenes from 20 years ago. But that doesn't mean we can't revive it.I like that mindset. I think one fantasy of mine must be extremely common to any other isolated goth: to open your own goth club and stablish yourself as a powerful and active figure in your local scene, helping the subculture by running a club that plays actual goth music and also gives the opportunity to local bands and djs to perform. I think my city is big enough for that to be profitable, maybe someone with the skills and money to open a club like that takes the initiative some day.
>>396681Now that I think of it, most of my linen is very old and it was storaged under bad conditions for a very long time, so when I rescued it from the box it was very stiff. Maybe the fabric has been damaged to some degree, although it doesn't feel rough on my skin after so many washes, but maybe the fibers are not well.
>>396748That shawl is beautiful
No. 396779
>>396777Linen is sturdy material, I doubt it get damaged, it even gets stronger when wet. Hemp is also strong as heck. I have seen a literal WW2 era bags in use in farming as recently as circa 10 years ago made of some of these materials. Most probably it was hemp.
Any nonas interested in boots tried reaching producers?
No. 396799
File: 1715371361936.gif (1.11 MB, 500x370, giphy-2018214210.gif)
>>396780Man, those kid adverts were hard core. Smoke Cigarettes And Skeletons Will Drag You To Hell.
I think the 90s are having a revival at the moment.
No. 396803
>>396779It was literally rotting in a dark basement that had been flooded, there was a lot of mold and
rat poop on that box kek, acrylic could've never
No. 397404
>>395332Speaking of this, I came across another video of someone giving tips for "goth" fashion and I'm still kinda seeing the same problem. I'll say this, I love the girl's makeup and hair but when it comes to the outfits and whether they look "goth" or not, I feel like most of them didn't really scream "goth" to me personally. At most, I feel like the second outfit she did looked closest to a "goth" look straining into slightly romantic goth though I feel that the spiderweb arm warmers kinda detracted from the look and it would've looked better with either simple lace arm warmers or some black crushed velvet arm warmers. I just feel that the spiderweb ones she used there look too costumey and threw off the look a bit.
That aside, I feel like all the other outfits she did just scream more 2000s Industrial than it does "goth".
No. 397443
File: 1715583199085.jpg (169.49 KB, 736x1103, 1977_westwood.jpg)
>>397404I don't see too much of stereotypical industrial stuff in that video TBH. She looks like pretty accurate reenactment of trends of the time frame of the late '90 going forward to the 00's.
The separate question is it correct to call D-rings, O-rings and metal eyelets in your clothing "industrial" just because it dominated fashion of rivetheads at some point. It was also generic punk staple too. Not all goths are into flamboyant laces and velvet.
I don't count wearing PVC as industrial as it was part of generic alt fashion and more of direct fetish scene on goth influence of that era as it was also time when there was much more bondage gear than "usually" being worn too.
BTW picrel is stuff Vivienne Westwood been offering in 1977. You see rivets and straps that were popular in the '00s.
But let's assume it was indeed industrial to blame for the rest of this post. I'm not that opposed to such theory, I just don't insist that it is exactly that simple. Honestly speaking there was so much of such industrial influence back in the late '90' and later in the '00s that you could have seen such pieces on people listening to goth. Yes, some of them were into industrial too. It's not rare but not all of them were. IBF also had a lot of "industrialish" influences visible in her earlier wardrobe videos. I have liking of some '00s pieces myself and I'm not too deep into industrial compared to goth.
Also the separate subject is what was popular in given scene in your part of the world as there were and in many cases still are big differences between how "generic average goth" looks in different countries especially over the decades.
That's why the main common denominator of "are you goff or not?" is "are you listening to goth?" in my opinion. Not what you are wearing.
No. 397567
File: 1715624533483.jpg (120.52 KB, 736x981, 90a0d3652d39b3522a7b11c29f8863…)
>>397443AYRT and the reason why I think most of her looks look more industrial than "goth" to me is because it makes me remember being in high school in the 2000s (I graduated in 08) and how I fell into the pitfall of thinking that industrial music was goth music when I got on VampireFreaks.net back in like 2002/2003. I didn't know any goths irl and I didn't know what actual goth music was. I was listening to a lot of industrial music at the time with bands like Angelspit, Chiasm, Imperative Reaction, God Module, Psyclon Nine, Alien Vampires, and Grendel to name a few. Anyway it makes me think back when I would browse profiles on Vampirefreaks and how most self-proclaimed goths on their were listening to this music and dressed like they walked out the Matrix or the future. I think I only came across like one or two deathrockers at the time but again, I didn't know that was considered goth and I thought it was just horror punk lol.
It's not so much that I think D-Rings/O-Rings are automatically industrial as I know they were used in punk and can even be used in goth looks but it's just them + the all PVC, vinyl, rubber, etc fetishy looking outfits which make me think Industrial thinking back to those bands I mentioned and the people listening to them and how they wore outfits similar to those like the girl in the video. It just takes me back to that time.
Ultimate I think it's all about how you style things. I do think that leather and PVC + O-Rings can be used for goth looks. One of Siouxsie's looks where she wore that black leather mini skirt sand tall boots with fishnets is a good example (though I think it's the big hair and her way of doing makeup that gives it the "goth" look lol)
>Also the separate subject is what was popular in given scene in your part of the world as there were and in many cases still are big differences between how "generic average goth" looks in different countries especially over the decades.Like I mentioned, when I was in high school I don't remember seeing any people who looked like trad goth or even romantic goth in the actual sense, I just remember a few nu-metal looking people at most who called themselves goth lol
No. 397654
>>397567You can look goth wearing a potato bag or even naked. But yea one's perception is highly affected of what could be observed in nearest environment and seen in materials available. I was for a long time thinking that punk hairstyles were only about mohawks and wings. Then I learned that there were also pretty short hairstyles as well as even just long hair.
As for D-rings indeed rivetheads were notorious for sporting them in their wardrobe as a result of their popularity in workwear and military. But they are also present in BDSM wear. BDSM wear is also one of areas where straps are popular.
But generally goth fashion is so wide topic and rich in different trends and inspirations that you can get seriously confused as an outsider seeing one space being shared by people who looks pretty normal just in dark colored regular clothing as well as generic dark "stereotypical punk" looks and some Alien Sex Fiend type "zombie freaks" and some individuals looking like taken from some 19th century (there were also cases of dressing even earlier periods that in my understanding was mainly the US thing if we do not count generic jabot and laced shirts popular in Europe too and some pikes patterns that look like inspired by actual medieval patterns as I mean more general complete looks) reenactment group.
No. 397834
File: 1715682886182.jpg (234 KB, 600x900, 2015-05-22_Viktorianisches_Pic…)
Wave Gothic Treffen is this weekend and I'm so excited nonas! I've wanted to go for like 10 years now and I finally have the chance because my job transferred me to Germany. Diva Destruction is coming out of her hiatus for it!
No. 398018
>>397834Omg I love Victorian gothic clothing. It’s so hard to find pieces that are a) high quality and not tacky looking polyester or whatever and b) don’t have an insane amount of unnecessary ruffles or silly details that aren’t period.
I would wear it every day if I could, the closest I can get is gothic Lolita pieces made of quality cotton. Also it draws a crazy amount of attention irl kek. Sometimes bad sometimes good. Even other goths I see give me looks sometimes kek. But I just love it so much.
No. 398187
>>397399It just makes sense to wear flowy fabrics in summer. Sometimes I think we pressure ourselves to look goth 24/7. It's fine if people can wear velvet in hot weather. But we don't
have to. Goth is about the music and if people want to wear a black tee and jeans, that's cool. If I want to wear bohemian goth clothing in summer, that's cool too. Wearing corsets in the heat screaming I'M MELTING! is optional.
No. 398221
>>397834>Diva Destruction comingAhh that's amazing. You're in for a treat anon, going off what I've seen in videos of them performing live, they sound just as good in person. Have fun!
>>398002>Freya is gonna be thereAfter all the controversy going on with her that's being discussed in the altcows threads ,all I can muster is an eye roll but kudos to those who still like her content.
No. 398529
>>398420Oh okay anon. I admit I used to be a fan of hers in the beginning of her channel but I grew bored of her content before she even had her kids when most of what she would do were just Killstar and Dark-In-Love shills. She's good at displaying clothes but the clothes itself got boring to look at (I prefer thifts tbh) and that was most of the only thing she'd talk about and I eventually got bored and would only watch on occasion.
Ever since she had her kids though, she has gotten so shameless it's embarrassing and I agree, in no way would she be a good representative of the goth scene.
No. 399615
>>399539Freya has a long trail of shameless antics tbh. From things like her wedding scam that she used the money to migrate to Germany and to travel parts of Europe during all of 2016 the wedding was set back in 2015). Her relationship with Mr Owl where she cheated on him with the German guy (his name is Matthias btw) and the belief on the board is that she got with him to get a Visa into Germany but as soon as she got there, she did not even bother trying to learn how to speak German which made navigating places there difficult for her unless she was with Matthias.
The rumor was that Matthias ended up cheating on Freya which is what caused them to split and Greya goes running back to Mr Owl who took her back.
No. 401016
File: 1716735799904.png (2.98 MB, 2160x2441, balenciaga_xD.png)
As for pointy shoes even Balenciaga has them in offer. It's literally hard to not find any pointy shoes nowadays. You have to make an extra strong effort to not find any in normie shops.
No. 401021
File: 1716735962858.jpg (683.64 KB, 2160x2441, balenciaga_trying_2b_punk.jpg)
>>401016Don't bother trying to find price. They are not worth what producer sells them for.
No. 401024
File: 1716736317787.webp (142.03 KB, 1094x1237, paristexas.webp)
Kinda interesting looking motor boots in vein of cowboy boots – stiletto hybrid
No. 401059
File: 1716745945974.jpg (859.02 KB, 1085x1200, Rodarte Fall 2023.jpg)
>>401021The boots are basically haute goth. Balenciaga trying to be punk is hilarious. Completely defeats the idea of punk, since punks are anti establishment. Pic rel is when the Fashion Industry does goth. Too damned expensive for what they are worth, but who says we can't take inspiration from it? Plus it doesn't hurt when high street shops try to mimic those looks. They sell it for cheaper than name brand clothes and don't have Balenciaga's rep.
No. 401083
>>401059Balanciaga rips rich fucks off who are fighting for their crap with higher and higher bids. I fucking respect that. They will sell them literal trash bags for few thousands. Westwood was doing same thing with her Sex boutique but had not as rich clientele.
>>401078I must get myself some New Rocks one day with metallic heels. Would look rad with chains and jewellery. Majority of my shoes are "commonly available in normie shops" stuff.
No. 403372
File: 1717503999439.jpg (474.37 KB, 720x1153, Screenshot_20240604_142519_Tik…)
>"look at all these non goth bands ive seen thats why im more goth than you"
kek
No. 404088
>>403616>>403617I personally think Cemetery Confessions is ridiculous with his whole "goth is politics" and "goth is philosophy" bullshit. Dude, it's a music-based scene, it's not that serious kek. I would understand if he were saying that being darkly-inclined is a mindset (which it is) but he doesn't do this, he takes it a step too far into retarded territory and it's why I've always been put off by his content which sucks because he's one of the only goth podcasts that actually engages in interesting topics.
>>403618Has he really? Do you remember what concerts he's attended? I don't doubt that Tim may have been a goth in his youth, the way he styled his hair and his design for Edward Scissorhands looked like he took inspiration from trad goth (which would track since he was around during the 80s) but I never could find sources on the goth music he liked and he and Helena Bonham Carter have said they don't consider themselves goth.
No. 404089
>>403644FFR. Millennials did have goff poseurs in them (need I remind about the "Mallgoths" lol) but Gen Z have been even worse since a lot of them like to treat goth like it's literally a costume to film for their Tiktok.
>>403692Same tbh. And then they call it "romantic goth" and it's like, no the fuck it isn't kek. Maybe I'm being harsh and have a preference for what 90s and early 00s romantic-goth looked like posted above in this thread but this look you described is so accurate. It's overdone and not unique or interesting because they all do the same thing, mostly inspired from scouring Pinterest.
No. 404384
>>404363>>404364AYRT, Thanks for the context. I had o idea about this, that's pretty cool lol
>>404367That's fair. Honestly I am left-leaning American but I'm not a bleeding heart liberal like Cemetery Confessions and it's people like him that annoy me when it comes to fellow leftists. It's probably that I'm also not someone who buys into gender ideology as I think it's all bullshit, I don't think white people should feel awful for being white just because of what happened in the past, and I'm not anticaptitalist neither because for better or worse, it's the only structure that really works at this time. I do think workers should be treated fairly and paid fairly and I do think the elite shouldn't keep raising prices for working class people whom we already are barely scraping by but I don't think doing away with capitalism is the best idea to go with. I just say all this to explain my position in terms of politics but more importantly, I don't bring this crap into goth.
And you're right that when goth is talked about, it's mostly the US, UK, and Germany, I'm guilty of this myself but it's mainly because it just doesn't feel like goth is as big in a lot of other places and yes, I have seen how some places have a very loose definition of what goth is where it's anything dark and obviously I don't agree with that but I digress.
No. 404390
File: 1717795961348.jpg (48.2 KB, 714x858, 4430aac8e3f6b21b42e321ffe3b980…)
>>404373Haha same. I love REAL romantic goth but I don't take it too seriously myself. I just think that when the style is truly done well like it was in the 90s and early 00s, it can be so beautiful to look at and I love dressing in the style as well. I never bought into the having to act like your depressed and melancholic, it's funny to me when people did that.
>>404382Same anon. Whenever I look for "romantic goth" on Pinterest, I see the same shit you've seen and it's so annoying. I shared some pics up above as well (I was the one who mentioned & shared Rose Mortem) and I've been able to find some photos of actual romantic goths from the 90s and early 2000s on Tumblr with blogs dedicated to sharing old photos of goths and I agree, Gen Z could learn a thing or two from them like we millennials did. You're absolutely right that a lot of Gen Z's "goth" outfits lack creativity and thought and they all just blend together and look the same. Same hair, same makeup style (the overly done Trad/Deathrock style) and big stompy platforms. You're right, they just buy from Killstar, Shein, Temu, or Romwe and call it a day there, it's so boring to look at but you know that these people don't genuinely care about goth and only care about their goff persona to get followers on their Instagram or TikTok because if they actually were interested, I'm sure their fashion would reflect it.
I'm getting tired of these people saying things like "Goth fashion doesn't have to be expensive". No shit, many of us oldies thrifted or worked with basic cheap clothing found in department stores and it cost a fraction of what you see on Killstar and we still managed to look just fine without going broke kek.
No. 404483
File: 1717816246741.png (2.03 MB, 1037x1180, looks1.png)
>>401059right, i get your issue with these huge fashion houses turning goth into another kind of commodity to sell back to people but it is refreshing for me to see high fashion gothic looks, and it makes sense to add an haute couture element to the subculture. the lace/latex/structured elements to gothic fashion are also uniquely expensive to manufacture and tailor well. i would rather balenciaga or whatever big house slop to create well designed and high quality garments that are inaccessible, yes, to actual goths who can't afford it, but to use as inspiration to then buy from small and local designers or to source pieces individually to simulate the same effect. imo killstar and dollskill are worse when they do the whole mass produced and even MORE contrived slop to sell back to working class ppl, everyone ends up wearing 'the gap' goth and i don't want to see that shit at the goth club. or anywhere for that matter lmao
No. 404541
>>404384>it just doesn't feel like goth is as big in a lot of other placesTo know about many other places you often have to know language of these places. There is language barrier which also covers terminology like cases of German where goth scene member is called "grufti" [Germany aslo has/had own unique names on members of many other subcultures]. And also tendency of these scenes to mostly communicate within own linguistic sphere.
I can tell you that goth is noticeable in Poland [also at the streets]. Some cities could have goth related events (gigs, dance nights) few days in a row (yes, I have seen cases of two different dance nights organized one day after another in same city sometimes even in less fortunate cases they can happen on the same day) outside of festivals. Recent years also brought many new local bands.
There are communities in Czechia and Slovakia, Ukraine which in recent years created many new bands.
I have no idea how things look in France regarding events as I don't speak French [francophones are notorious for barely being active in English speaking regions of the internet] but amount of active bands and regular goths making it to festivals in Poland suggest that it's pretty decently sized scene too. BTW Corpus Delicti reunited recently.
>>404483I rarely see anything interesting done by these big fashion designers in "goth". Even practical aspects aside like you cannot dance in many of that stuff from 1st photo and the 2nd photo is mostly generic black dresses and only 1st model in upper left corner is wearing something that is semi interesting to me.
>>404390The skill that many younger goths do not work on is mixing stuff together and building a decent amount of "glue" in their wardrobe in form of accessories that allows mixing different stuff and adding goth/generic punk feel to it. They go for "designer" clothing from brands instead of building a collection of jewellery, belts, wristbands, scarves, safety pins, bands pins etc. first that they can use to add character to even plain clothing (not even necessarily black). Heck also replacing buttons like normal regular shirt buttons with for example silvery or brass metal buttons can add a lot of character to plain normie piece. It's cool if you are just starting experiments and you can still use your current wardrobe in alt outfit. [see photo >>401203] As for mixing different fabrics together like it's done in the photo you posted it's a lost art even in general fashion.
One can also make a point that even just makeup and the way you style your hair could be on it's own enough to make your outfit goth no matter what you wear.
No. 404570
File: 1717856365644.jpg (1.24 MB, 1356x1400, Ann Demeulemeester 2010.jpg)
>>404483>everyone ends up wearing 'the gap' goth and i don't want to see that shit at the goth club. or anywhere for that matter lmaoLOL @The Gap goth. that's exactly what it is. Haute goth can be inspirational, especially if you need to look 'smart' for an interview or make a good impression. We dont need to sacrifice our style for the corporate world. Balance is key to looking chic, not shit. You can easily turn a black number into something professional. These days it's considered a power color. If it's done right it can make you look serious instead of silly.
No. 404578
File: 1717857899945.jpeg (47.58 KB, 428x640, 39 Photographs Capture the Str…)
>>404570I like how the basic jeans and shirt when paired with accessories can make an outfit. But these accessories have to create a proper impression, just some simple chain that every e-girl/e-boy sports nowadays is not cutting it.
No. 404579
File: 1717858323041.jpg (62.15 KB, 500x745, tumblr_mzgqr1oM9r1qex2zzo1_500…)
>>404578Even just an "out of place in normie sense" belt on top of a normie coord might be enough. It's a matter of accent.
No. 404584
File: 1717858767595.jpeg (269.1 KB, 820x1276, 164835-1413261035689-820x1276.…)
http://cvltnation.com/striking-portraits-of-from-1980s-italian-goth-clubs/Photos of some people from Italian club scene back in the '80s. Pretty minimalistic and created out of normal everyday stuff with minor modifications.
No. 404586
File: 1717859259651.jpg (128.03 KB, 465x726, dino5pnoamdopgna.jpg)
>>404584Layering different fabrics and metal jewellery and generic chains is a stuff that many modern goths can benefit from instead of buying yet another overpriced killstar crap. Addiction to these brands that many people have nowadays create impression thet when you visit a club you arrived at some kind of "goth factory" where goths are mass produced using just few patterns applied over and over.
No. 404615
File: 1717873180630.png (828.54 KB, 1280x720, Angela Benedict-12.png)
>>404541Oh sure, I can believe that there is some rumblings of goth happening in Poland, I've actually came across 2 new goth bands from there in my music digging. I can believe that for sure and that is genuinely cool.
>The skill that many younger goths do not work on is mixing stuff together and building a decent amount of "glue" in their wardrobe in form of accessories that allows mixing different stuff and adding goth/generic punk feel to it. They go for "designer" clothing from brands instead of building a collection of jewellery, belts, wristbands, scarves, safety pins, bands pins etc. first that they can use to add character to even plain clothing (not even necessarily black). Heck also replacing buttons like normal regular shirt buttons with for example silvery or brass metal buttons can add a lot of character to plain normie piece. It's cool if you are just starting experiments and you can still use your current wardrobe in alt outfit. [see photo >>401203] As for mixing different fabrics together like it's done in the photo you posted it's a lost art even in general fashion.Definitely agree, I don't see this mixing done neither and I think that's the consistent key thing that makes gen-z "goth" outfits look so bland and uninteresting to look at. Even if they have the sharpest trad/deathrock makeup, it doesn't translate to much interest when their outfits are just "goth in a box" like and also again, most of them are doing the same makeup anyway.
I'm sitting here looking at my wall hooks of all the different necklaces and bracelets I've collected over the last 2 decades and how when I really look at my own wardrobe, I don't have a lot of fancy clothes but still manage to create some imo, nice looking outfits when I add my accessories to it as well as mixing fabrics.
I think this is why I enjoy Angela Benedict's videos because she's one of the only goth channels that actually still does that and even though she has shilled in the past, she at least would put something unique of her old clothes and/or accessories to the outfit.
>One can also make a point that even just makeup and the way you style your hair could be on it's own enough to make your outfit goth no matter what you wear.So true. Back when I had long hair that I would tease out and just leave in, I'd wake up in the morning and look in the mirror just in my pajamas and no makeup and my hair looked like a bats nest and I felt like I still looked "goth" in that state kek.
No. 404644
>>404390This picture rings all the Romantic goth bells! I love that she's wearing a lace night dress because I used to do that. The make up is reminding me of Nancy in The Craft(I know, I know), but we didn't have many movie inspirations back then. Goth still wasn't that trendy; you saw it but not everywhere like it is today. Every movie or TV show has to have the obligatory goth outcast.
I remember Tosh from Urban Legends was a bit Romantic, I liked her lace gloves and layers of necklaces. The dark purple lipstick was great paired with the glitter eyeshadow. I wouldn't wear that eyeshadow now, but maybe a shimmery purple or grey would work.
>"Goth fashion doesn't have to be expensive". No shit, many of us oldies thrifted or worked with basic cheap clothing found in department stores and it cost a fraction of what you see on Killstar and we still managed to look just fineThat's the thing; they don't thrift, they think it's below them or they worry it won't look goth enough. You have to make it goth yourself. It's way better than the cookie cutter Killstar crap (say that 5 times fast, lol) and original. Sometimes I would save up my money to buy a really expensive corset or skirt. Mostly I saved money so I could go into the city. The thrift shops there had more choice and I could find unique items. It's a shame Gen Z is so shallow, they miss the opportunity to DIY and be creative.
>>404615>I don't have a lot of fancy clothes but still manage to create some imo, nice looking outfits when I add my accessories to it as well as mixing fabrics. I've got a long black dress and wear necklaces as belts. A sturdy necklace around the waist looks cool, esp. if you wear long necklaces or rosaries with it. I can make a plain outfit look witchy with just a few accessories and rings.
No. 404649
File: 1717884223153.jpg (55.97 KB, 438x627, d1584d56caa398e99ae13ae82fe671…)
>>404373>I mean here the type of goth where lyrics about life seen as a dark tomb full of suffering and constant pain are one hundred serious and unironic done by individuals who claim that they have to not smile at all and that they suffer 24/7Your comment reminded me of Andrea from the TV show Daria. She definitely had the 'My life is a dark room' persona. I think it was done to be ironic, most of us don't project Eternal Suffering My Darling Annabelle Lee, kek.
No. 404654
File: 1717885857113.jpg (155.85 KB, 1775x2560, Matt-Black-Silver-Necklace_2-s…)
Pic rel dressing up an outfit with various accessories. The keychains are a creative way to add more without overdoing it.
No. 404661
File: 1717887661163.jpg (47.74 KB, 600x757, NoelFuchs.jpg)
>>404654I personally see use of _many_ small decorative details in male outfit as
problematic. One one side they make guy look bigger than he is on the other hand make look very busy as many males are indeed far from slim twink body type meaning they have significantly larger area of body than females as a background for jewellery making small details look even more microscopic. IMHO dude in your photo would benefit from few more massive sized accents like bigger belt or/and larger beads. The more muscular guy the balance IMHO should go more toward bigger sized details.
Picrel - Noel Fuchs (Doctor Mu) was sporting a well balanced sizewise for his body type mix of numerous accessories.
No. 404666
File: 1717888692059.jpg (141.23 KB, 736x1104, da580ef4de0c11dcf2a659a84909e0…)
Also found some grufti dude - he has big sized accents that are creating some "focal points". Their size and contrast of metallic on black takes most attention making smaller details look more balanced and gives harmony. You can go very decorative without looking busy if you master balancing such details as size and contrast.
No. 404816
File: 1717954661110.jpg (215.33 KB, 1920x1281, COVER_IMAGE_6a732025-3d3b-485e…)
https://www.killstar.com/blogs/journal/romantic-goth-editRolling my eyes over Killstar's "romantic goth" article. Of course mentioning generic bands The Cure, Bauhaus and Type O Negative that was referred upthread. Then topping off the post with quasi-moody air brushed zoomers pouting at the camera. The non ironic We're Cool Because Our Clothes Are Expensive attitude. And mentioned by nonna
>>404390 Same make-up style. I don't see anything that signals Romanticgoth, I see Nu Goth hipsters. The Instagram-ready poses plus overpriced cheap clothing and jewelry screams Try Hard Poseur. The last photo feels like the popular kids ripped off the alt scene just to prove they can "do I better". /rant
No. 404859
>>404644>This picture rings all the Romantic goth bells! I love that she's wearing a lace night dress because I used to do that. The make up is reminding me of Nancy in The Craft(I know, I know), but we didn't have many movie inspirations back then. Goth still wasn't that trendy; you saw it but not everywhere like it is today. Agreed, it's one of my favorite looks that she's done, screaming romantic goth realness and I love it. And as far as Nancy goes, I'm willing to give it a pass for the reasons you said but also because you can tell that they really took some inspiration from actual goths.
>I remember Tosh from Urban Legends was a bit Romantic, I liked her lace gloves and layers of necklaces. The dark purple lipstick was great paired with the glitter eyeshadow. I wouldn't wear that eyeshadow now, but maybe a shimmery purple or grey would work.I remember that character and I agree, she definitely had some romantic goth vibes goign on and I liked her outfit up until we see her get up and we see she's not wearing anything under her lace dress and it was clearly to sexualize herto the male audience which is just skeevy. And there's also the fact that the music they had her listening to was Rob Zombie music when they could've easily had her listening to actual goth music like Rosetta Stone, The Wake, or Switchblade Symphony. It was 1998 so there was plenty of goth music to choose from by then but ignoring the misused music and the sexualiztion, her makeup and the top half of her outfit was on-point for romantic realness.
>That's the thing; they don't thrift, they think it's below them or they worry it won't look goth enough. You have to make it goth yourself. It's way better than the cookie cutter Killstar crap (say that 5 times fast, lol) and original. Sometimes I would save up my money to buy a really expensive corset or skirt. Mostly I saved money so I could go into the city. The thrift shops there had more choice and I could find unique items. It's a shame Gen Z is so shallow, they miss the opportunity to DIY and be creative.I agree all around. The thrifted looks always look 10x better than the "cookie cutter Killstar crap" (lol). And I would also save up money for boots and skirts as well but for the most, it was thrifting or department stores.
It's just a shame because thrifting can be fun. Just put on some earphones and go through a sorting adventure, sure it's not guaranteed that you'll always find something but that's part of the thrill of the hunt and I feel like Gen Z is missing out on that kind of adventurous feeling.
>I've got a long black dress and wear necklaces as belts. A sturdy necklace around the waist looks cool, esp. if you wear long necklaces or rosaries with it. I can make a plain outfit look witchy with just a few accessories and rings.Oh nice, that sounds awesome. I kind of do a similar thing where I have a really long necklace that I sometimes wear as a belt and I do the whole rosary thing as well serving some Nancy downs goodness and I'll just pair a black tank with a black skirt over some black tights and lace kimono and I'm good to go, all of these clothes not breaking the bank at all and aren't Killstar or some other big brand kek.
No. 404869
File: 1717968332204.jpg (33.6 KB, 500x685, 68687c8fb40f61e26863e9d9af8117…)
>>404816As a romantic goth fan, this was just garbage. Even with the music, why didn't they bring up Suspiria, Violet Tears, or Faith and the Muse. Ethereal wave is the background for romantic goth so you'd think they'd mention bands that reflect with the feeling of that style.
And I agree that the looks were exactly what we criticize her. Super bland, uninspired, and boring cookie cutter crap that looks try hard at best.
No. 405010
File: 1718025842885.jpg (36.92 KB, 298x600, b7a6570734a5bda50f4d7197335052…)
>>404869>As a romantic goth fan, this was just garbage.That was my thought when I read it. If zoomers find this board, it's important for them to know that Killstar is not romantic goth.
>Ethereal wave is the background for romantic goth so you'd think they'd mention bands that reflect with the feeling of that style.Right? They chose Type O Negative. Really? The lyrics are moody but that's not my first choice. What about Dead Can Dance? Lycia, Mors Syphilitica, Ordo Funebris, Narsilion, Sopor Aeternus.
Bauhaus is ok but overplayed. Maybe we should compile a list of bands for Gen Z.
No. 405084
File: 1718042846513.jpg (972 KB, 2848x4272, UkrainianEthnoGoth.jpg)
>>296194>I love the idea of adding non-Western cultural elements to goth.You can add whatever you want
No. 405089
File: 1718043655848.jpg (83.08 KB, 570x855, 8220a769c7551aa6e87e019c15dce0…)
From Romania to Balkans in many countries still survived many types of geometric and floral folk embroidery. In some of them black linen is one of traditional colors.
No. 405091
File: 1718043985247.jpg (260.13 KB, 736x1041, 37a8aa65a0381a206b5b82709488b9…)
Kate from Van Helsing movie had folk elements in costume design like shirt and jacket.
BTW if anyone tries mixing white fabric with leather - make sure you have some isolation between leather and your white stuff as unfortunately many leather items tend to stain white fabrics in situation of close contact. Which sucks.
No. 405099
File: 1718044596365.jpg (72.83 KB, 338x450, af37364a8edf211c5f70e162012f4a…)
>>405089>From Rmania to BalkansDang it, It was supposed to be "from Scandinavia to Balkans". Posting some Scandinavian embroidery as a penalty.
No. 405102
File: 1718045109126.jpg (435.17 KB, 1145x1600, p Hallingdal.JPG)
Folk stuff from Europe is inspirational as heck.
No. 405155
File: 1718059579441.jpg (68.93 KB, 581x720, 99d7834cbe2dab4b683ead43cb6e0e…)
Since we're posting pics with non Western elements, Muslims wearing ethnic goth but keeping it within the limits.
No. 405157
File: 1718059876023.jpg (47.17 KB, 500x625, 093a332ec8f4fb35297a2cdfdededf…)
Black henna is one way to add something non Western. Although there is a caution that black henna can be irritating. Second option: buy temporary tattoos applied with water if you're worried about it.
No. 405237
File: 1718091937371.jpg (29.92 KB, 355x550, e60fd875e2cf9514a7536fff485728…)
>>405010>That was my thought when I read it. If zoomers find this board, it's important for them to know that Killstar is not romantic goth.Agree all around. Zoomers should understand that it's totally possible to make actual romantic goth-inspired looks with affordable clothing and all that you need to know is how to choose the right fabrics and once you get that down, you're good to go. Just stop buying overpriced Killstar clothes, it's not a romantic goth shop.
>Right? They chose Type O Negative. Really? The lyrics are moody but that's not my first choice. What about Dead Can Dance? Lycia, Mors Syphilitica, Ordo Funebris, Narsilion, Sopor Aeternus. Bauhaus is ok but overplayed.Yeah those bands would've been perfect too. I like Type O but they're not a goth band (and I'm getting tired of people labeling them as such).
> Maybe we should compile a list of bands for Gen Z.That'd be cool. Just please don't put Depeche Mode & Tears for Fears in the list kek.
No. 405240
File: 1718094499736.jpg (104.42 KB, 736x1097, Koviak.jpg)
Anyone knows if John Koviak is still participating in the scene? Just curious if the most famous "Polish goth" (he was born in Poland and his family emigrated to the US when he was still a toddler) is still active.
No. 405241
File: 1718094932958.jpg (123.74 KB, 1000x1000, westernbootsskull.jpg)
>>405155This made me look for Western (as in Wild West) stuff with skulls. Interesting.
No. 405244
File: 1718095094836.jpg (91.23 KB, 570x1131, 554ba8e3fc670232e487600aec2180…)
>>405242And spider/cobweb patterns
No. 405245
File: 1718095235490.jpg (251.33 KB, 1306x979, cowboybootpurse.jpg)
TIL cowboy boot purse is a thing
No. 405246
File: 1718095508110.jpg (210.42 KB, 1500x1500, 11e7bbdf35afdf24c0f27c18fd8795…)
I must say that as an European I like the level of decorative that the US cowboy boots reached.
No. 405248
File: 1718095884831.jpeg (188.06 KB, 768x1024, ea4449c948c1975385cd712fe54b-3…)
That reminded me about pointy boots of Carpathian highlanders, it comes out that there are producers of them making black ones
No. 405250
File: 1718096124560.jpg (34.94 KB, 380x399, SlovakKrpce.jpg)
>>405249BTW shoes can be pretty easily repainted black with black stain you mostly have to remove existing finish like waxes etc and then stain and reapply some finish - et voila you have black shoes
No. 405360
File: 1718139079506.jpg (306.7 KB, 1386x2048, ed6419b1014cd1ccfdff9930b503d6…)
Romantic goth music.
Like nonna said, Ethereal Wave is the background for Romantic goth. It had its peak in the 1990s-2000s. Here are some bands I've selected.
Love Spirals Downwards
Miranda Sex Garden
Lycia
Claire Voyant
Narsilion
Love Is Colder Than Death
Dead Can Dance(their older music)
All My Faith Lost
Ordo Funebris
Mors Syphilitica
Autumn's Grey Solace
Sopor Aeternus
Black Tape For A Blue Girl (seen as the epitome of Ethereal Wave but I prefer other bands)
Aythis
Artesia (considered Darkwave/Atmospheric)
No. 405362
File: 1718140373507.jpg (282.46 KB, 1184x1574, 2a165414640a7c66f22442248a3fb3…)
Other music I listen to (not really Ethereal Wave)
Kælan Mikla
Trees Of Eternity
The Changelings
The 3rd And The Mortal
Tristania (their older albums)
Wardruna (creepy pagan music)
No. 405369
File: 1718142719299.jpg (67.91 KB, 507x960, tumblr_584aabf0d86a5853320746d…)
>>405360(adding some more to your list)
Faith and the Muse
This Ascension
Autumn Tears
Switchblade Symphony (Serpentine Gallery, mostly darkwave but I think the tone can fit ethereal)
The Shroud
Cocteau Twins (Head Over Heels album)
Alucarda
The Machine in the Garden
No. 405429
File: 1718167252489.jpg (21.38 KB, 460x434, rose.jpg)
>>396055Late as fuck but
> do people really think Strawberry Switchblade are goth?Tiktokfags claim they are goth like there is no tomorrow. It genuinely drives me insane and makes me doubt they have listened to a single song, not even their songs with themes like death sound goth in the SLIGHTEST. Even fashion-wise, they are definitely more nw, they definitely influenced a lot of people, and referred to themselves as the brides of Robert Smith so likely wanted that image.
In saying that, I biasedly consider Rose Mcdowall goth, her individual work isn't really but I think some neofolk songs and elements are definitely gothic, and she has done a lot of work with DI6, Current 93 and has a cover of a song from the Wicker Man (very gothic horror IMO).
She also dressed a lot more gothic outside of SS, I think her musical work outside of SS could be considered gothic but seeing videos like "People say goths listen to scary music but this is goth music tehe!!" with Ecstasy/ Apple of my Eye in the background makes me sick to my stomach. They're calling SS goth everywhere nonas. I cant take it I really cant.
No. 405431
File: 1718167587258.mp4 (2.52 MB, 576x1024, awesomeanddank.mp4)
>>405429Samefag but I have seen SO many videos like vidrel. This as over 100k likes, do these people not hear the song they're playing and look at the words? Do they understand anything? Do they think for one second? Or is it just le tik tok said this song is goth it must be goth hehhe! Yes I need to calm down but they don't get Rose like I do. They never will
No. 405445
>>405429Fucking thank you anon, I've noticed this too and I say this as someone who likes some of Strawberry Switchblade's music. They are certainly not goth in the slightest and I can't fathom how these tards think that, have these people not actually listened to goth music to understand what the sound is because if they did, they'd see that SS sound like usual 80s style new wave and synth pop music.
It's pretty much how these idiots also put Depeche Mode and Dead or Alive as "goth music" which is just inaccurate.
No. 405448
File: 1718178166802.jpg (135.77 KB, 852x942, cb22d14a6fef2820c6be09ee88ef41…)
Yes, it was already explained. You can find many photos of Rose McDowall dressed in stereotypical 80's dark alternative outfits. You can also find photos of both SS members wearing black laced stuff that would not be out of place in goth clubs. If zoomers want to credit them for something - they should credit them for influencing Japanese lolita street fashion, including gothic lolita.
No. 405659
>>405610Ah, stripped trousers, we meet again. Been a while since I have seen someone in one.
Speaking of stripes - diagonal one were kinda of a symbol of Polish band Republika. Their leader and vocalist Grzegorz Ciechowski was an absolute mad lad when it comes to combining different genres including cold wave but also ton of other totally non rock related - if he was active in the UK or western Europe he would be in an absolute rock cannon of every rock enthusiast. But he did not plus he died 22 years ago. This album would go nicely at any '80s related DJ set list.
No. 405957
>>405941The most famous still active artist group that was active in that genre are Lords of Acid. Other artists are pretty much a distant past. Technotronic was also involved in that genre (most famous track "Pump Up the Jam"). Lords of Acids and Confettis made it to MTV.
If you know any oldschool DJs or club goers ask them about mid '80s to early' 90s Boccaccio club in Belgium which was the epicenter of all that music.
There is also documentary on Belgian club electronic music scene that covers New Beat among others
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sound_of_BelgiumThere are many compilations on youtube of various tracks from that scene that pops up when you search for "New Beat".
No. 405971
>>405963Their early days were New Beat they are featured in that video
>>405958 with their track "I sit on ACID". New Beat was very influential for European club scene and was important phase in evolution of many subgenres of electronic dance music.
No. 406751
File: 1718621602422.jpg (37.5 KB, 319x482, roseagain.jpg)
>>405610I listened and it's very funky I love her so much
>>406331ayrt I'm not genuinely upset I just really like being hateful and pretentious for fun
No. 407049
File: 1718699561890.png (617.29 KB, 720x540, Sherlock-Holmes-jeremy-brett-2…)
>>406911It indeed looks more toward dark alternative [in the late '00s vein] look with romantic elements rather than romantic as the main core of outfit. BTW he could have get romantic enough look if he just wear even simplest suit trousers in black color and kept shirt inside pants. They are cheap as fuck in thrift stores. Simple 3 piece suits, tuxedos and frocks are good enough to be a part of male goth wardrobe. They been seen in the '80s scene but mostly disappeared later and get replaced by "victorianized" brands variants, many of which are very unfortunate in design if you ask me. Modern male suits formed in Victorian times. Main difference between modern and [actual] Victorian variants were some minor details of cut and height of waist. But that's not the parts that modern brands target. They do some very random modifications instead.
By going with this type of ripped pants he watered down the romantic elements by introducing very visual elements of other aesthetics. It's a mix of styles instead of "letting the romantic part play the main role". If he would have worn simple plain black pants instead hey would not grab attention and would let the vest and shirt to be the most visually striking parts of outfit.
No. 407057
File: 1718705407945.jpg (266.84 KB, 1125x1153, Handmade_Mens_Black_Leather_An…)
>>406911I agree they missed the mark. Of course they chose a costume instead of actual clothing pieces. I'm thinking of what nonna said and it just screams Pulled From Pinterest. He noted Romantic goth makeup was softer then went with harsh makeup. The ripped jeans was terrible and doesn't fit Romantic at all. The pics I shared up thread of Jeannie Nitro; the bloke with skinny jeans and winklepickers is more accurate. He wore round platform boots and while he doesn't need to wear winkles, boots like pic rel would have looked better.
The girl's makeup was inaccurate, too garish and looking more like J-goth. Her look was just way off; the tights, the boots, all of it. If they wanted to portray the style correctly, they could have watched films from that era. Or at the very least done more research.
No. 407063
File: 1718706358471.jpg (73.31 KB, 720x1130, 812028c8b356fd4517f2b9319e5e14…)
>>407057I also want to add that the red eyeshadow didn't work. Tbh I'm tired of seeing it. I don't know if ReeRee was the one who started it, but it's all over Instagram as the 'goth' look. Case in point the 'romantic goth' edit from Killstar has all the models wearing that same look. If they made it softer and less garish (pic rel) then I wouldn't care but it's literally
everywhere No. 407078
>>407063Wasn't that Dani Divine that popularized red eye shadow?
>>407057Good point about boots. As pants I would say that thicker wool black pants (tweed?) would make the vest and shirt look less like costume.
I personally do not associate romantic goth with any specific style of makeup. Heavier work for me as well as simplistic subtle one. But I have in mind the general romantic (broader than goth) movement of the '80s and they were wearing also heavier makeup not only more subtle.
No. 407086
>>407078>Wasn't that Dani Divine that popularized red eye shadow?I don't know, I remember ReeRee doing a video on Romantic makeup and it was dark red and black.
>>407085>First time posting ITT but does anyone remember a clothing brand called Heavy Red from the early 00s?Yes I remember them. They were medium-priced clothing that I dreamt of having, but I agree their quality went down later on. I've gotten used to DIY over the years and even though I can afford those brands, I'd rather thrift and upcycle.
No. 407119
File: 1718725902479.jpg (513.35 KB, 1200x1600, Gypsy 83.jpg)
>>407057I agree with you, they should've watched a movie like Gypsy 83. It's been awhile since I've seen it but I remember thinking some of the looks the characters wore did look romantic goth and it could've been a good foundation to start with. Or characters mentioned above like Tosh from Urban Legend. And for the guy, someone like John Koviak like the pic shown here
>>405240 It's pretty clear that they either typed in "romantic goth" on Pinterest which isn't a great resource for that style unless you know what the style actually looks like and/or they google image searched "romantic goth" and were met with the generic dark romantic looks that aren't actually romantic goth neither.
No. 407125
File: 1718727013392.jpg (8.27 KB, 236x206, Gypsy.jpg)
>>407123Lmao I understand that on the cover, Gypsy (the blond woman) looks trashy but in the film she wears a few nice outfits like picrel. The movie is drenched in early 2000s though since it came out in 2001 and the plot involves the blonde girl being obsessed with Stevie Nicks but the film features some goth music from bands like The Cure, Diva Destruction, Claire Voyant, and Bauhaus.
No. 407128
File: 1718727502615.jpg (44.09 KB, 425x657, ef31732f1bb2d85d19ce6079858fc4…)
>>407085I remember Heavy Red! I discovered that site in the late 2000s in my late teens and thinking a lot of the clothes looked nice but I was too poor to afford it. I remember really wanting to get this sweater (picrel) because I liked the stitching on it but I never was able to get it. Sucks to hear that the quality has went down.
No. 407135
>>407127Oh is it? I didn't know kek.
>>407063>dark red eyeshadow lookI agree, I'm so over this look as well and it seems to be overdone and I don't think it particular sells the "romantic goth" look neither. I'm not sure if ReeRee Philips was the one who started it, I went through her channel and I couldn't find a tutorial of her using red eyeshadow, vidrel is the closest I've seen with the full eyeshadow coverage. I think that
>>407078 is right that it could've been Dani Divine.
No. 407146
File: 1718732655835.jpg (268.81 KB, 721x608, 30262bc703d7791c9722bd72d00521…)
>>407119Yes! I was hoping someone would mention Gypsy 83 in this thread. Her style definitely would fit Romantic/witchy. That's how I learnt about Clair Voyant(I'm in a Darkwave mood if anyone has more bands to recommend).
>>407135That's the video I was talking about. Actually it was a girl called BlackCatCvlt that did one on Romantic goth makeup. Later I saw ReeRee's video and wondered if BCC copied it because the video is gone. If people swapped the red for purple or dark blue it would be fine, but it's so generic now. It's not my idea of Romantic make up.
The goth couple used chalk white foundation and it wasn't used much with Romantics in the 2000s. I have face powder one shade lighter than my skin tone, that is what we used, plus staying out of the sun. The idea was looking like you walked out of a Jane Eyre novel, not looking like you came from a Marylin Manson concert.
No. 407184
>>407146>Yes! I was hoping someone would mention Gypsy 83 in this thread. Her style definitely would fit Romantic/witchy. That's how I learnt about Clair Voyant(I'm in a Darkwave mood if anyone has more bands to recommend).Yeah! I really need to rewatch it because it's been a hot minute but I remember being in love with Gypsy and Clyde's style and it was totally of that time and the costume designer did their homework utilizing the late 90s goth style that was popular in the scene at the time. And funny enough, I learned about Claire Voyant from that movie as well! (For another Darkwave band, I'd recommend Dichoroic Mirror, they kinda blended darkwave and ethereal together, beautiful sound.
>Actually it was a girl called BlackCatCvlt that did one on Romantic goth makeup. Later I saw ReeRee's video and wondered if BCC copied it because the video is gone. If people swapped the red for purple or dark blue it would be fine, but it's so generic now. It's not my idea of Romantic make upI totally understand. Red is just so overdone and it would look better with purple or dark blue. Honestly the only time I've seen red used and it looked really nice was in one of Angela Benedict's videos (vidrel)and even then, I think it's the way she did her eyeliner that makes it look "goth" to me as opposed to something like what you usually see here
>>407063 where it looks boring and generic.
No. 407197
File: 1718747196218.jpg (215.72 KB, 1440x1440, Vamp aesthetic.jpg)
I totally didn't know dude was in Jake Munro's band. That explains the make up, kek. The gf's make up needed to be less, IMHO.
No. 407205
File: 1718748909240.jpg (94.32 KB, 1280x720, Vampire makeup.jpg)
>>407199That's true. Maybe it's the way Zoomers are doing it that annoys me. Somehow in the 2000s they made their makeup look like part of their outfit and Gen Z look like opium addicts.
Pic rel is more ethnic than goth, but could easily be incorporated with darker shadow on the brow. Maybe it's because she blended it around the eye and had a lighter colour on the lid. If the girl in vid rel
>>406911 had done something similar it might have made her outfit look classic, but instead made it look like a parody.
No. 407353
>>407205>That's true. Maybe it's the way Zoomers are doing it that annoys me. Somehow in the 2000s they made their makeup look like part of their outfit and Gen Z look like opium addicts.No idea what exactly do you have in mind writing about looking like opium addicts. I have seen broad spectrum of makeup styles done by zoomers.
As for the couple in question their Victorian video looked closer to what seems to be closer to someone's vision in this thread.
No. 407394
File: 1718814461322.jpg (50.42 KB, 546x976, 72ae2ef0862154628ad801e4bdf63f…)
>>407354>Do you mean a contrast between very clean clothing style that many zoomers indeed possess and somewhat messy makeup style?I think that's the word I was looking for. Zoomers have clean cut clothing, it comes straight from the goth shop/Killstar/Dark In Closet. They haven't taken the time to build a wardrobe. Trads and millennials had to thrift or buy items over time and this added character to the wardrobe. That's what Zoomers lack; they don't have character. We took the time to have our makeup look good because we care about the subculture. But I don't get that from Gen Z; they don't care about the music or the culture, they do it to look cool. Their idea of goth is superficial and their clothing and makeup reflects that. I think that's what I was trying to convey. Yes, red eyeshadow was around in the 80s and 2000s. But it was done well and looked creative. Zoomers slap it on like a stencil. We're immersed in the actual subculture but I feel like Zoomers aren't. They're on the outside looking in at us and mimicking the
idea of goth, and that's why, in my view they don't embody the spirit of gothic culture. I guess it's because they grew up with their faces in iPhones.
No. 407414
>>407394The "easier" fashion gets the harder it gets to make the look unique. And "dark fashion" never been "easier" even despite the fact that goth clothing brands been existing for several decades.
Heavy customization of the '80s meant that you would see people doing stuff like dying stuff black. Like wedding dress from this video from the horror comedy movie "Night of the Demons". Literally regular wedding dress dyed black + makeup + teased hair (notice it's not the "standard black dyed hair" but pretty natural looking brown) + few metal accents in form of bracelets. Done. You know you are looking at a goth.
You would have to think - get an idea and concept what are you going for. That's a part of one of the most complex human mental activity - planning. Planning takes time and energy and then you have to move to the next phase - the "doing it". You need to know what fabric would take what kind of dye etc.
No. 407459
File: 1718828538673.jpg (99.43 KB, 736x1308, 180161dc3685ce59de29027d2228f9…)
>>407394You nailed it! That's the problem with these zoomers' fashion. The problem is besides the fact that the clothes are so cookie-cutter cut and end up looking generic and bland and boring because so many of them rush out to buy these same pieces in droves; it's also the fact that many of these zoomers are buying these generic "goth in a box" clothes hot off the press and it's what emphasizes the blandness of the outfit. Like you said, in the 1980s and us millennials, sure we bought second hand clothing but the clothes were lived in and showed age and added character to the looks we did. It gave off a natural feeling to it, not something "fake" for lack of better word. And when you pair these super clean generic clothing with their over the top makeup, it really adds even more to this boring, generic aesthetic.
>>407414Excellent example, Angela is definitely one of the best examples of DIY uniqueness. And you're right, it all starts with coming up with a concept and working from that and the way to make that concept feel unique and natural is not take the easy route via buying "goth in a box", the fun comes from using simple stuff and building it like a puzzle.
No. 407477
File: 1718832861709.jpg (43.82 KB, 563x692, 59240e4dea0e57921621b9b3aee78f…)
>>407459>many of these zoomers are buying these generic "goth in a box" clothes hot off the press and it's what emphasizes the blandness of the outfit.That was my thought; they look like clones. Even when they try to be 'original' it still comes off looking like a parody. They're style is basically pre-made cookie dough or pancake mix; just add red eyeshadow. We had those ready made dresses but we didn't wear them. In highschool there was a poser goth and she bought those expensive Hot Topic dresses. We didn't consider her one of us because she didn't like the music and didn't DIY.
>sure we bought second hand clothing but the clothes were lived in and showed age and added character to the looks we did. It gave off a natural feeling to it, not something "fake"Exactly, it didn't look like a costume because we live and breathe the music. And the clothes have a 'lived in' look. I think Zoomers also miss out on the lifestyle. As a teen we couldn't afford to go to concerts or they were too far away. That didn't stop us. We'd go behind the mall parking lot, drink cheap beer and listen to CD's on the stereo. I heard someone went to a concert and when a song played, the Zoomers started doing TikTok dances. Growing up Generation Glass sucked all the creativity from their brains. They don't need to think when the internet does it for them.
No. 407491
File: 1718834860173.jpg (135.07 KB, 736x1143, f85f883575f8d55afc8cea37d21c88…)
>>407414>Like wedding dress from this video from the horror comedy movie "Night of the Demons". Literally regular wedding dress dyed black + makeup + teased hairI remember this scene. This is a good example of creativity. If it's not black, dye it black. I think Zoomers are afraid to make mistakes or think they have to look perfect.
>>407459>Excellent example, Angela is definitely one of the best examples of DIY uniqueness.Also taking an item and redoing it. Something I learnt from Antimony & Lace is making patterns. She said if you thrift and find a skirt(but it's the wrong fabric or colour) rip the seams out, trace around the skirt and make a new one in a fabric you like. I really miss her site, if it was still around I think it would help Zoomers get into the mindset of goth subculture.
No. 407554
File: 1718846922200.jpg (377.03 KB, 1581x2000, Cindy Lauper.jpg)
You can go even cheaper on accessories and still get punk look
No. 407719
File: 1718911750369.jpg (112.06 KB, 508x339, istockphoto-824815224-170667a.…)
>>407353>No idea what exactly do you have in mind writing about looking like opium addicts.When they do the black and red eyeshadow, they don't blend well and it makes them look like drug addicts instead of goth. It looks lazy because they don't try. Or they try too hard and it ends up looking generic. That's what I was saying. Makeup doesn't have to be a certain way, but being creative is a key factor in the subculture. And Zoomers lack creativity because the internet thinks for them. Like I said, they don't take cue's from the music, they take it from Pinterest and Instagram.
No. 408021
>>407981I'm talking about social media Zoomers. When going to festivals or clubs you expect people to go all out. But it's like what anon said
>>382863 looking at Instagram and seeing the same clothes and make up. I'm a Millennial and used to get made fun of for being goth. It's just annoying to see Zoomers treating the subculture like a costume instead of a lifestyle. We went through shit in the 2000s and watching Gen Z rebrand it like an ironic aesthetic is frustrating.
No. 408023
>>408021I'm a millennial too and I totally get what you're saying. The commercialization and the commodification of our scene turned into essentially a costume by attention whoring zoomers who (try) to change what goth is about is absolutely obnoxious. And if we dare say that our scene is music-based and even make note that the music is still being made today (both old and new bands), they call us gatekeepers as if we are trying to hide the music from them which is fucking annoying.
But I feel like their shallowness has a bound because something I've noticed with a lot of these zoomers is that they don't stick around long. They'll only "be goth" for a a couple months, maybe even 2-3 years but they then burn out and drop the whole thing and move onto the next popular trend.
I mean the same happened with us millennials but I've noticed it's even more common with gen-z and it's not even just goth but any other music-based scene that isn't metal.
No. 408038
>>408021>I'm talking about social media ZoomersAnd what is so unique about them that social media millenials did not do?
>>408023>But I feel like their shallowness has a bound because something I've noticed with a lot of these zoomers is that they don't stick around long. They'll only "be goth" for a a couple months, maybe even 2-3 years but they then burn out and drop the whole thing and move onto the next popular trend.Well, it was a thing for years already with millenials too. Remember blogs about being trv goffs disapearing after 2-3 years? I do.
No. 408041
>>408040millenials invented nu-goth and revived mall goth, zoomers goth dress always like
>>407459 or like a stripper. also there's no zoomer male goths, only gay male crossdressers and trannies obsessed with some cartoon goth girl they skinwalk
No. 408051
>>408037AYRT and again, I totally understand you. I remember getting called names at school and even had some kids who threw rocks at me when I was walking home only to come home and turn on some Cure and Bella Morte (before they went all electronic lol) and just feel relaxed. It was a tough time and the music that we loved calmed us and brought us all together. Seeing these zoomers taking the progress we fought for only to disrespect it into a shallow personality is grating but I think what helps me not think too much of them is knowing that there still are people who genuinely like the music and listen to it like everyone here. It probably also helps that I don't use TikTok so I don't have to witness these people too much.
>>408038>Well, it was a thing for years already with millenials too. Remember blogs about being trv goffs disapearing after 2-3 years? I do.I'm aware, I remember VampireFreaks and how there were lots of darkly-inclined people calling themselves "goth" on that site (heck that's where
Toxic Tears made her name and she's one of the biggest Posers on YT). This isn't new per say but I think the difference is that you didn't see it too frequently and for that, I just think that's a side effect of social media, specifically app culture.
No. 408054
File: 1719008656312.webp (41.54 KB, 614x767, Mallgoths.webp)
>>408041>millenials invented nu-goth and revived mall goth, zoomers goth dress always like >>407459 or like a stripper. also there's no zoomer male goths, only gay male crossdressers and trannies obsessed with some cartoon goth girl they skinwalkGotta remember though, "Mall-goth" was not an actual goth style. In fact, it was a code-word for poseur way back in the day lol. I can admit that I have a certain nostalgic fondness for the look since it was big when I was a teenager but it really had nothing to do with goth at all and was rooted in nu-metal music. From what I've seen with the "revival" is just zoomers finding it and unironically thinking that it's an actual goth style.
No. 408189
File: 1719057794050.png (336.96 KB, 1000x878, a82ddca2caa83861321fb4d51f2712…)
>>408054>Gotta remember though, "Mall-goth" was not an actual goth style. In fact, it was a code-word for poseur way back in the day lol.Yes it was, lol! The poser in our circle was mall goth. She only shopped from Hot Topic. She listened to Godsmack and Disturbed and thought Rob Zombie was edgy. Hot Topic was probably the OG goth in a box. Some of us bought a spiked choker from there but mostly we did DIY. It was ok to buy an accessory or two but buying boots or outfits was labeled mall goth.
No. 408211
>>408189AYRT, I won't lie, I was a bit of a mall-goth way back when in the early 2000s. I didn't buy all my clothes from Hot Topic but I remember saving up and getting a pair of the Tripp Pants lmao. I had a spike choker but I actually just got mine from a pet store kek. Thankfully I did meet an actual goth in my junior year of high school and she was patient enough to help me discover actual goth, I learned about London After Midnight from her.
>>408205I'm not "assmad" about it. I was a "mallgoth"-lite in the early 2000s since I was a teenager at that time. It's just funny to see that in hindsight how it really didn't have nothing to do with real goth.
>Isn't it a good thing they're differentiating themselves from goths and acknowledging they belong to a subculture that likes different music and clothing style?"Mallgoth" still has "goth" in the name which was/is because the people were trying to tie it to the goth scene. I remember hearing from a friend that where she lived, they called it "mallcore" and I wouldn't object to it being called that since it makes sense as these people were doing their shopping in the mall for their edgier fashion.
No. 408645
File: 1719224462105.jpg (57.5 KB, 648x900, abby.jpg)
Abby Sciuto from NCIS - did her outfits affect you?
No. 408705
>>408645I didn't really watch a lot of NCIS but my parents were into the show and so I'd catch a few episodes of it from them whenever they were watching and I remember seeing Abby and thinking she was so cool. I thought her outfits were cool when I was a teenager but looking back, her style screamed more "mall goth" and I don't really consider her an actual goth character because when I looked up a list of music that she listened to in the show, with the exception of the Cure, most of the songs were either industrial or alt rock.
That said, I do still enjoy the character even if I don't personally see her as a goth anymore.
No. 408728
>>408707>>408694Makes sense
>>408705If I had to criticize anything in her outfits it would be always (or at least huge majority of the time) wearing identical wristbands. But just because I find asymmetry in that area to look more interesting. Not because It's a "no no" in my book. Here where I live identical wristbands are more of metalhead fashion staple, so it might also have some influence on my opinion. Other than that her outfits were not screaming "alt brands only" straight in your face (even if they were but I can't tell as I'm unfamiliar with US brands of the era and after years many pieces of her wardrobe look like generic '00s pieces to me). I don't exactly remember if there was any explicit statement about her being goth in that series. I remember there been at least once a scene of her in the club and some mention that she was sleeping in a coffin in other episode. Actress playing her been involved in alt rock scene since few decades.
No. 408738
File: 1719252465557.jpg (209.68 KB, 900x1200, cb21c43a820e1341c528a745c51bbc…)
>>408211>I had a spike choker but I actually just got mine from a pet store kek.This. One of our friends got his from a pet shop. They were cheaper than Hot Topic. He also used to buy chokers with a ring on it and add a padlock to it. Other DIY things we did was pull tabs off of soft drinks and make necklaces from them. I used to paint mine with fingernail polish for variety.
No. 408786
File: 1719263187536.jpg (24.82 KB, 800x1067, ambush-safety-pin-link-necklac…)
>>408775Do you remember safety pin necklaces? I used to paint the tops with black or red nail polish. We used to cut a slit in our tights and safety pin it back together. I used to wear one as an earring too.
One of our friends made a bracelet from paper clips but I wouldn't do it because they weren't black, kek.
No. 408927
>>408831Yeah it was more or less somewhat like that. Like I mentioned, at least in my experience the worst we got was having things like rock and food thrown at us and one of my male friends who wasn't really a goth, just an alt nerdy guy who hung around unfortunately did used to get shoved around by some of the sports kids. But in the end we all had each other at the very least.
I'm curious if the bullying is as bad now as it was back then but I'd like to think it's gotten a little better but at the same time, as shitty as those times were, it did help some of us develop a thicker skin and I suppose that can count for something.
No. 409124
File: 1719339097486.jpg (46.45 KB, 850x400, randomquote.jpg)
>>408796Why it started with mentioning Manson?
Also lol at barely mentioning the Damned Just like 1 second then whateva we move on to other bands. Also lol at anachronistic bullshit of "2 pank fa goff 2 goff fa pank" about deathrock. That bullshit phrase originated pretty recently and has a little to do with historic origins and meaning of the term deathrock. Also no idea where did she took that "rockabilly guitar work, glam imagery (..) and synths and gloomines from goth[????]" Was it sourced from one of these numerous obscure blogposts or some portals posts that was presenting to the world "historic facts" about term deathrock that originated by the means of taking these facts straight from authors anus? Just listening to most [opular early bands that were otiginating from the area where term deathrock originated is enough to understand that it's pure bullshit. Also term goth was not even that big thing around the time term deathrock was actually used. That anachronistic use of "goth" is what pisses me and many people who actually remeber scenes from back in the '80s off. Also WTF is "goth post-punk"????? Who spawned that unholy abomination of a term? Als WTF she is citing Dinah Cancer without actually understanding what she is citing… I'm literally speechless.
And no, Christian Death did not "brought deathrock to Europe" at least not any more than how she stopped biting her wife with a steel rod or how colors are dancing to the sound of sweet velvet shapes.
tl;dr; it's a great luck she probably does not speak German otherwise we would have a lecture about over 9000 "genres" because Germans love renaming everything like every 3rd band created in that country because you see if a German pitches down keyboard or adds more reverb to vocals than other bands they surely just created a very unique and turbo original genre worth naming!
No. 409144
File: 1719342090458.jpg (43.26 KB, 736x580, summary.jpg)
>>409124And why she intoduces term "Goth Rock" with Depeche Mode? Ah, right she has no freaking idea what she is talking about and how much stuff she already get wrong in under 8 minutes.
Now I start playing 9:59 mark.
Nooooooooooo, awwwwwww. WHAAAATTTTT? "Darkwave" being a child of new wave and goth? Goth is already a subgenre of new wave. It was the one of original names for gothic rock FFS. She is literally claiming that a subgenre of newave had sex with newave and it had a child together and that child was the same subgenre that had sex with broader basket of genres that it's a part of. What kind of logical abomination is that? Oh, great now she is also throwing a pinch of synth pop into the mix. But synth pop is a subgenre of new wave already. Why is she repeating herself for another time???? And no baby, during the 80's darkwave was not used "to describe synth based bands". A lot of bands that was called "darkwave" had no synths or almost no synths but you are literally listing such bands in the same sentence. Which proves you have no idea what you are talking about, you don't understand what you are citing and have no idea how music of bands you are mentioning sounds. And you are like what - ummm 70 seconds into Darkwave section???? Ah yes, Gary Newman. Goff icon.
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaha "Dark Wavers" [photo of Razor Candi with 2 other people emerges]. Is this video directed by Mel Brooks???? LOOOOOOL
"Cold Wave (a.k.a. French Cold Wave)". No idea what does she meant by that "a.k.a." part. And then instantly jumping to ethereal wave. And then instantly to "minimal wave". Is that the moment where she entered ADHD mode? "Neoclassical darkwave like Death Can Dance" - WHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT??????????????????????????????????????????????? Ah yes, Corpus Delicti, the famous French Darkwave band famous for being synthesizer heavy [not] as illustrated by a track she choose in which there is zero synth parts. You are contradicting your own definition of darkwave kido. Is consistency and logic stuff that boomers only care about?
Oh noes, she is mentioning Todeskunst after all. Good that she does not mention bazillion other German terms.
Ah yes, cybergoth a very famous "offshot of goth music". *facepalm counter clicks yet another time.
[13:32]
Oh how great that she is citing a dude who explains that her definition of darkwave is anachronistic and contradicts with what she claimed about it meaning back in the '80s. Also fun fact he is also NOT claiming that it has for him to do anything with having synthesizers sound. [ADHD stream of random bands follows here ended with Molchat Doma]
What in the name of Vlad Tepes did I just watch??????
To people who still don't get it - she provided citations proving that historically speaking darkwave was just another name for what we call today as "goth". And it had nothing to do with having or not any synths in your songs.
But the funniest part is that she does not understand that she literally pwned herself.
No. 409386
File: 1719406340597.jpg (78.69 KB, 736x1115, c84a5c1054b4b6d353bda843dee0bd…)
>>408927>I'm curious if the bullying is as bad now as it was back then but I'd like to think it's gotten a little better but at the same time, as shitty as those times were, it did help some of us develop a thicker skinYes it did. At least it taught us to be prepared for criticism and learn that most people are not nice. I think zoomers are spared the worst due to growing up with iPhones. That's a problem when it comes to criticism or bullying. Think of the stories where Gen Z was bullied online and then took their own lives. Bullying sucks but it teaches you about real life. These kids are terminally online and don't live in the real world so they aren't immune to life's evils. If Zoomers are turning mallgoth into a fashion trend then it could be a sign school bullying isn't as harsh.
In my circle there were 3 goths including me, a punk and a few alt people that dyed their hair blue and wore UFOs. There was a gay kid that hung out with us because we were a group of misfits. He wore earrings and makeup and was generic alt. He used to get bullied a lot but we all got together and defended him. One alt kid had the most scorching comebacks when the popular kids made a dig at us. At the end of the day at least we had our music and each other.
No. 409723
File: 1719501426338.jpg (78.29 KB, 640x920, 4ffd327a63b8265eb5c24d878fe43a…)
>>406276>I can't exactly pinpoint the moment that whole obsession with "brands, brands, all your wardrobe has to be brands and brands" started. Could be the middle 2000s? I remember the movie Repo: The Genetic Opera used Lip Service for Shiloh's wardrobe. I'm thinking a TV show may be the culprit but I can't think which one. When American Horror Story: Coven aired, they were doing things like How To Get Their Look. The Stevie Nicks fan girl had people wanting to buy her clothes. I think at the end of some episodes they would tell viewers where to get it. That's one example, but I'm sure there was one show that used a goth brand and it picked up from there.
No. 410231
>>409750As a fellow Hex Girls fan, it depends in what way you mean. If you're asking for any actual goth bands that sound like them? No, I can't think of any because for the most part The Hex Girls don't make goth rock music and they mostly played around with different rock genres like for example, their "Put A Spell On You" sounds like late 90s alt rock while "Earth, Wind, Fire, & Air" sounds more like a hard rock song.
The closest goth-related band I can think of that I feel might've been an influence for their music is Inkubus Sukkubus. Personally I've always been mixed on whether I would consider them a goth band. My friends back in the day considered them "goth" but I personally never really got that vibe from them save for a few songs. Nonetheless, they made their debut in the early 90s and kept making music and from what I've read, they were somewhat well-known in the goth and pagan music scene at the time and I wouldn't be surprised if the creator of the Hex Girls had heard of them and used them as one of their influences.
For a non-goth reocmmendation, maybe early Concrete blonde?
No. 410234
>>409386AYRT, you raise a good point that even though we had to face IRL bullying, we really did learn to develop thick skin and we'd remember to always have our friends backs and we didn't all have to be goth for that, we were considered the "weirdos" and we "weirdos" just stuck together whether we were goth, metalhead, alt, gay, and/or especially nerd (it helped that we'd have interests that overlapped with nerd culture).
>If Zoomers are turning mallgoth into a fashion trend then it could be a sign school bullying isn't as harsh.Maybe lol. Again it makes me think back to the late 90s and 00s where "mallgoth" was looked down upon both by goths and the general public though with the latter, it didn't really help that many of them did act like attention-whoring jackasses but of course there will some chill ones as well. But yeah they were definitely not seen as trendy back then.
It's nice to hear that in your circle, you all had each other backs. It was a beautiful thing to build friendship in that way and I miss that.
No. 410235
>>409723Yeah I honestly can't think of any shows that were shilled by alternative brands. I'm pretty sure that NCIS' Abby wore a couple clothes from Tripp and Lip Service but not many people, let alone teenagers watched the show religiously. I can't even recall seeing "goth" characters in live action tv shows during the 2000s. I remember Repo! The Genetic Opera though I didn't realize that Shiloh was wearing Lip Service brand clothing lol
>American Horror Story CovenI was in my early 20s when the show came out so I don't know how popular it was with teenagers but I feel like it may have been quite popular because I do remember a wave of girls wanting to be all spooky, witchy, and goff taking fashion inspiration from the characters, mainly Madison, Zoe, and Misty. Though funny enough, the popularity faded after the show ended and a lot of these girls ditched the style and most became "normie" or moved onto something like E-Girl & K-Pop.
I won't lie though, I loved Misty's style and I took some inspiration from it for some of my own looks that I still do from time to time today kek.
No. 410343
File: 1719680974058.jpg (57.41 KB, 600x600, 4e4801bb63bf501b93525f1b0acb9c…)
>>410235>I remember Repo! The Genetic Opera though I didn't realize that Shiloh was wearing Lip Service brand clothing lolI think Terrance mentioned it in the DVD. I haven't seen the film in awhile. After the allegations of him being a seedy ephebophile, I stopped watching him.
>but I feel like it may have been quite popular because I do remember a wave of girls wanting to be all spooky, witchy, and goff taking fashion inspiration from the characters, mainly Madison, Zoe, and Misty.That's her name! I forgot the Stevie Nicks fan girl was Misty Day. I remember watching it and thinking they kinda ripped off Gypsy 83. People were creating clothing sets inspired by the show on Polyvore. AHS Coven may have been the start of Nu Goth fashion. The hipsters wanted to be witchy without fully committing to goth, and created Nu goth. You're right, after the show finished, so did their interest. Personally I like the hippy/witchy inspiration. It makes sense to adjust my style for warmer weather, like anon said wearing thin layers.
Link rel when websites popped up telling people Where To Buy a characters wardrobe.
https://www.shopyourtv.com/tag/madison-montgomery/ No. 410345
>>410308She said we didn't have the t-shirts with bats and ankhs. That made me lol because I had to buy a white out correction pen and draw crosses or webs on my shirt.
She talked about baby bats having access to Killstar, Dollskill etc. Where do they get the money to buy them? I've seen some of the prices on these brands and it's ridiculous!
No. 410346
File: 1719681899658.jpg (81.29 KB, 960x720, b532cadca7670f642803abe763aed3…)
>>410343AHS was such a vibe. I barely picked any inspiration for my style back then but I've been wanting to dare for a while. The house, the clothes, the plot, the almost all female cast, the WITCHCRAFT… I really wished I could go to Miss Robichaux Academy. I think it had a pretty big impact on certain spots of tumblr.
No. 410349
>>410307Goth picnic
>What kind of music you listen to?Depeche Mode.
:cringe:
No. 410423
>>410345Same here lol I remember I had this nice back crop top and I took a gray fabric marker and drew a large ankh on it. It turned out so bad in hindsight because it looked a little crooked but I didn't care at that time lol.
>She talked about baby bats having access to Killstar, Dollskill etc. Where do they get the money to buy them? I've seen some of the prices on these brands and it's ridiculous!My guess is either some of these kids have well-off parents who give them money to spend or they may be buying them secondhand on an app like Depop.
No. 410439
>>410343>That's her name! I forgot the Stevie Nicks fan girl was Misty Day. I remember watching it and thinking they kinda ripped off Gypsy 83. People were creating clothing sets inspired by the show on Polyvore. AHS Coven may have been the start of Nu Goth fashion. The hipsters wanted to be witchy without fully committing to goth, and created Nu goth. You're right, after the show finished, so did their interest. Personally I like the hippy/witchy inspiration. It makes sense to adjust my style for warmer weather, like anon said wearing thin layers.Yeah I can see why one would think they ripped off Gypsy 83 with her but I dunno, I think Gypsy and Misty's styles were distinct enough to stand on their own. Both inspired by Stevie Nick's hippie witch look but went in different directions where Gypy's take looked more semi romantic-goth while Misty's felt more witchy hippie (closer to Stevie which fits since the character idolized her).
>The hipsters wanted to be witchy without fully committing to goth, and created Nu gothWhich is funny since it was just another style that started as a pseudo goth style but ironically it eventually did become a real one when more actual goths (both musicians and fans of the music) started dressing in that way.
>Personally I like the hippy/witchy inspiration. It makes sense to adjust my style for warmer weather, like anon said wearing thin layers.Yeah I do this as well. It really is the perfect style for summer and with a few tweaks with accesories, you can totally make it look more goth.
>>410346Yeah it totally was a vibe. I thought that Coven kinda lost the plot towards the end of it's run but overall it was a fun ride with neat characters. And yeah it did have a big impact on the hidden corner of Tumblr but like I mentioned, it has long been dead and I don't think the characters being returned in Apocalypse was enough to bring the interest back.
No. 410699
>>410688>synth pop comes from new waveNew Wave were genres that came from punk. Hence it's alternative name is Post Punk. It was not single sound, just shared roots and inspirations.
>New wave came first and synth pop came shortly after.No. New wave did not "come". It was a wave of artists that been building on top of punk. They did not come "after" New Wave. They been New Wave itself. Like photons are light beams itself.
New Wave is goth music in sense gothic rock is a subgenre of New Wave. Not all new wave bands are goth. Fun fact if you lived in the '80s Poland you would hear term New Wave used as a synonymous for Cold Wave which was used in sense Gothic Rock is used nowadays. But that is not contradiction to gothic rock (cold wave) being a subgenre of New Wave. Squares are rectangles after all but not all rectangles are squares.
No. 410859
File: 1719838436298.jpg (496.21 KB, 1381x2302, Drusilla-Spike-Angel-promotion…)
>>410307I couldn't focus because the Irish girl in the vid wearing that dress. It looks like a costume, ready made and bought fresh off the press. I know it's a nitpick but I wish there was more thought put into it. Most of the girls interviewed are DIY and what you would find in every day life. It's almost cringy the contrast of real goths vs the Try Hard goth in the video. Chalk white face paint, goff crown, Killstar dress, DarkinCloset duster. Her look just screams Instagoth. If she wanted a Romantic vibe, she could have gone with Drusilla's dress in pic rel. It's the difference between a dress looking like a historical dress, and a Halloween costume. I'm just tired of seeing the goth in a box look from online personalities.
No. 410895
>>410692That's a cool song you chose as well. Watching the goth picnic vid and her band preference.
>I like Depeche Mode and Rammstein!I couldn't believe what I heard and had to wash my ears out with music.
No. 411108
>>410439>Both inspired by Stevie Nick's hippie witch look but went in different directions where Gypy's take looked more semi romantic-goth while Misty's felt more witchy hippieI liked her witchy wardrobe. I made a dress similar to that red one she wore. They sold them in black, so I looked online and designed it in that style. Plus Misty's dusters were the best. I've lived in dusters since I was a teen. They can make a basic dress look nice and like you said, with a few accessories can turn it witchy.
>Coven kinda lost the plot towards the end of it's run but overall it was a fun ride with neat characters.Yeah it did. During the last episodes it felt like the director just wanted to finish it. It was good inspiration for us anyway. I think the Papa Legba voodoo god was a nod to Stevie Nick's, since she used to wear top hats. But seeing how Papa Legba has been around longer, and Stevie was rumoured to be a witch, it makes sense she took inspiration from voodoo.
No. 411152
>>411111I'm just saying kek. Like hell, I'd rather these people choose something cliche like Sisters of Mercy because at least it's an actual goth band. You're right that they have the internet and have access to a lot of goth music so why don't they use it? I was on YouTube earlier and clicked a random short of a zoomer goth doing "romantic goth" (it didn't look romantic at all, it just looked similar to what the girl in this video wore
>>406911) and she was playing Depeche Mode's "Personal Jesus"… Oh yes, that song totally matches a "romantic goth" vibe kek.
No. 411178
>>411150>I still enjoyed it for what it was because I'm a sucker for shows that center around witchcraft and we don't really get many of those, especially with the kind of vibe that AHS Coven had.Right? In the 2000s I was addicted to Charmed. When I was thinking which TV show could've influenced goth brands. I thought maybe Buffy The Vampire Slayer. I didn't watch it religiously because after school we would usually hang out, not watch TV. I think at one point they brought in Faith who wore generic black and leather. The wiccan girl Willow went dark and her style was generic goth.
I haven't bothered watching the new Charmed series. When they redo these shows it's done to please everyone and not step on any toes. I watched The Craft Legacy and it was the worst. They tried too hard to make it like the original while trying to make it different. Same happened with the new Hellraiser, Nightmare On Elm Street etc.
No. 411202
>>411178LOL I used to love Charmed. The original first 3 seasons are pretty neat even though I love season 1 most because even though it was trying to aesthetically look like a maturer version of the Craft, I loved the whole somber darkish atmosphere it had compared to the later seasons. I watched Buffy later in it's run but it was a cute show with some neat characters and nice fashion. I think with Willow you're talking about her vampire counterpart right? Her look could've passed for RomanticGoth with a bit more tweaking otherwise if you're referring to when she went all dark after Tara died, I don't know if I'd call that a "goth" look. But I can't lie, Drusilla was the one with the looks that grabbed me the most. And I suppose some of Tara's witchy fashion in her earlier seasons.
I tried watching the new Charmed and I'd skip it. It's horrible, the vibe is off, the characters are annoying. It's a mess. I didn't see The Craft Legacy but I'm not surprised to hear it missed the mark, I feel like the OG movie was a lightning in a bottle moment bringing a great assortment of actresses, especially Fairuza that is not easy to replicate. When I saw the trailer for Legacy, it just looked like a teen nick show trying to be dark and just being cringe in the process.
I really hope that we do get a new witchy show with that somber atmosphere sometime soon.
No. 411360
>>411350>Halloween was the only time I could find black candles as well.You didn't had occult shops?
Also
>HalloweenNo such stuff in my country back in the '90s. Unless you meant a heavy metal band.
>smearing kohl pencilWait, that is no longer a thing?
No. 411437
File: 1720052358349.jpeg (90.98 KB, 404x604, IMG_1234.jpeg)
>>411225Depeche Mode isn’t goth, but they’re definitely gothic. Hell, Martin Gore was major influence on 80s goth fashion with his cross dressing in leather skirts and pearl rosaries. I think it’s one of those gothic bands that are goth-adjacent because of their musical and visual stylings and they were ‘adopted’ by the subculture, sort of like Strawberry Switchblade. They weren’t goth, but many goths were fans.
No. 411562
>>411437>Depeche Mode isn’t goth, but they’re definitely gothic.Ah yes, vidrel is goffik as fvck.
They only had darker period on few albums. As for a lot of jewellery at once it was a well established staple of the '60s and '70s fashion and goths were not the only group adhering to that trend back in the '80s.
No. 411563
File: 1720083926263.jpg (87.15 KB, 859x1390, original-film-title-the-legend…)
>>411562example from the early '70s illustrating the point about jewellery
No. 411620
>>411352Oh okay. I did do a quick look into their channel and they have interviewed bands like Christian Death and Clan of Xymox so they seem to be at least aware though it makes their video more annoying where they could've played a Clan of Xymox song in their video to fit the "goth" vibe.
>>411354I really don't like the ones where they take sound clips from movies, tv shows, and/or interviews of people and use that as their "quirky" background while displaying their goff outfit. I've heard the "we are the weirdos mr" soundclip to the point where I hate it (and I used to love that quote kek).
No. 411649
>>411622They still are not sounding goth. They are nice music but they are different. Yes, I have heard them many times on goth nights. They just don't meet criteria music-wise. Goth bands had more or less common inspiration on genres that existed before goth. Depeche Mode sounds like it went their own path.
>>411636It entered western fashion with "witchy" fashion trends that started like circa 1950s. It was a mix of neo victorian trends with various oriental and folk fashion trends. By the 70s it was well spread and common and could be seen in numerous movies especially with occult themed characters.
>>411645They are genetically closer to Cabaret Voltaire and other British synthesizer centered industrial acts than to anything of goth rock family or it's predecessors. Industrial was often sharing same venues and a lot of fan base with goth bands affecting some of them like for example Alien Sex Fiend. Yet it's still different in regard of approach to song structure and melody building. Industrial is older than goth and even older than punk but shares with punk inspirations but it went own path and punk and it's offshots went their own.
No. 411665
>>411202>I think with Willow you're talking about her vampire counterpart right? Her look could've passed for RomanticGothYes, that was the one I was thinking about. I didn't see it when Tara died, I remember seeing some episodes from a few seasons.
>But I can't lie, Drusilla was the one with the looks that grabbed me the mostSame. I took tips from some of her period dresses, her modern style was ok. But I really liked when they did a flash back to her era.
>I really hope that we do get a new witchy show with that somber atmosphere sometime soon.I liked Sabrina the teenage Witch from the 90s. She was fun and her magic was fun. I saw the trailer for new Sabrina and didn't care to see it. There were promising series like The Dresden Files and The Secret Circle. Sadly they only did one season. If they could do a series like Practical Magic without trying to be edgy, I'd be down for that. I guess we'll have to wait for a good writer to happen. In the meantime, I'm happy for Goosebumps and Tales From The Crypt re-runs.
No. 411670
File: 1720126343136.webp (44.29 KB, 485x728, Dark Willow.webp)
>>411665>Yes, that was the one I was thinking about. I didn't see it when Tara died, I remember seeing some episodes from a few seasons.Oh my bad, didn't mean to spoil it for you haha. But yeah Willow goes for a darker look (picrel) and it's a cute look but It's not "goth" in the slightest but I remember people calling it a goth look.
>Same. I took tips from some of her period dresses, her modern style was ok. But I really liked when they did a flash back to her era.Very nice. I agree that her period dresses were beautiful. I didn't watch Angel though I've seen a few of her scenes in it. Her modern style was okay but I much prefer her looks from Buffy lol.
>I liked Sabrina the teenage Witch from the 90s. She was fun and her magic was fun. I saw the trailer for new Sabrina and didn't care to see it.I loved the 90s Sabrina as well. I didn't much care for the later seasons but for what it was, it was a fun show though am I the only one who felt that season 1 had a slightly darker feeling to it compared to it's sequel and later seasons that felt zanier and wackier?
>If they could do a series like Practical Magic without trying to be edgy, I'd be down for that.I'd be down for that as well!
>In the meantime, I'm happy for Goosebumps and Tales From The Crypt re-runs.Nice. I need to do a rewatch of Goosebumps and Are you Afraid of the Dark. I've never actually seen Tales of Crypt, is it worth a watch?
No. 411679
>>411670>though am I the only one who felt that season 1 had a slightly darker feeling to it compared to it's sequel and later seasons that felt zanier and wackier?The later episodes reminded me of Clarissa Explains It All with her wacky ideas or situations.
It's possible they changed writers after the first season, or maybe due to complaints. People actually used to write to the shows and complain about something being too mature or whatever. I think some of Dawson's Creek episodes angered parents. Also nobody thought it was weird Clarissa's friend Sam climbed in through her window?
>I've never actually seen Tales of Crypt, is it worth a watch?Some of them were funny, some felt like Tales From The Dark side. A few episodes were disturbing, it depends on what you like. I didn't enjoy the later seasons, they just felt like they ran out of ideas but wanted to keep doing it. I used to watch Eerie Indiana when I was a kid. I remember the tupperware twins episode the best. Shows like So Weird were cute, but after Fi left I didn't like the singer character. Those were the days watching after school programs on Nikolodeon.
No. 413141
>>413011>What do you think makes it not goth?I don't think any Synth-Pop is goth. Synth-Pop and goth are their own genres of music with their own characteristics that define what they are. I notice that you didn't mention futurepop which became very popular in the 2000s because of bands like Crusxshadow (and Blutengel, they dabbled in that style as well at the time).
For me, goth is defined by it's style of guitar that is present in even darkwave and ethereal wave.
>>413103As someone who liked The Cruxshadows, I can say after getting through most of their albums that the bulk of their music is not goth and I appreciate more people acknowledging this. It's true that when they first started out in '93, they did make some goth songs but as time went on, they started hopping into the Synth Pop, Futurepop (mainly in the early 2000s) and Electro genres. They more or less tend to alternate between the later three genres and at least from what I've heard, haven't done any goth music at all as they seem perfectly content with the synth and electronic based style of music in the last 15+ years.
No. 413174
File: 1720544069127.jpg (306.75 KB, 1444x550, blackroseclothes.com1.jpg)
Sharing pics of BlackRose clothing circa early 2000s for the nostalgia(and inspo). Incoming photodump!
No. 413175
File: 1720544192216.jpg (341.06 KB, 1466x550, blackroseclothes.com2.jpg)
It's a shame the pictures were small, many of them didn't load. Thumbnails were there but archive.org didn't save the larger files. Google can't identify the photos either.
No. 413176
File: 1720544305980.jpg (253.8 KB, 1460x550, blackroseclothes.com4.jpg)
I'm really liking her purple hair. You can tell they were part of the subculture, not just wearing clothes to look good. Also the chunky heel boots!
No. 413177
File: 1720544358383.jpg (308.03 KB, 1478x550, blackroseclothes.com3.jpg)
No. 413178
File: 1720544436824.jpg (279.85 KB, 1182x449, blackroseclothes.com5.jpg)
No. 413179
File: 1720544578779.jpg (139.24 KB, 744x550, blackroseclothes.com men's jac…)
The men's jacket section was cool unfortunetly, only these two pictures were captured.
No. 413180
File: 1720544628585.jpg (85.1 KB, 874x420, Winkles.jpg)
Yes to pointy boots with bat and skull buckles!
No. 413181
File: 1720544659529.jpg (103.15 KB, 454x400, blackroseclothes.com6.jpg)
No. 413182
File: 1720544688182.jpg (134.9 KB, 998x498, blackroseclothes.com(20).jpg)
No. 413183
File: 1720544711874.jpg (77.6 KB, 972x500, blackroseclothes.com(19).jpg)
No. 413184
File: 1720544744049.jpg (91.61 KB, 872x500, blackroseclothes.com(22).jpg)
No. 413185
File: 1720545060979.jpg (34.18 KB, 230x450, blackroseclothes.com(1).jpg)
No. 413327
File: 1720606284474.png (2.75 MB, 1139x1600, ogre.png)
anyone in the thread remember the book go ask ogre and music associated
No. 413373
>>413179Not like it's an obligation but (as it was worn historically speaking) wearing a vest on op of the shirt nails the look more often than not. These shirts were historically designed to be worn under something. Shirt was literally male underwear.
And BTW it's hard as fuck to find a proper male vest (that looks not like a costume like most of stuff from "alt brands") outside of male (very) high fashion stores. Even in thrift stores formal vests are rarity as vests went out of fashion for like last 40 years.
No. 414021
>>413512Ugh. 'e-girl'. Another internet fashion trend with no music background discussed here
>>279349plus their boring make up that's all over Tik Tok. Makes me think of whimsi-goth mentioned upthread
>>293159Why do they do this with the goth subculture? You don't see whimsi-punk or whimsi-metal.
No. 414090
File: 1720813099876.jpg (824.02 KB, 2132x1080, Ottavio Nuccio collection.jpg)
>>413373>And BTW it's hard as fuck to find a proper male vest (that looks not like a costume like most of stuff from "alt brands") outside of male (very) high fashion stores.It's a shame, there used to be goth online stores that would sell high quality men's attire, but in the last couple of years it's gone down. I see that everywhere now; shops that had a reputation for good clothing are now using cheap fabrics. It's possible you could find a tailor in your area to make one for you. It would be cheaper than these high fashion stores, I think.
No. 414833
>>413463Ah now that is a good point because as awesome as this style is, a good few female singers in gothic metal bands also dressed in a similar style. Vibeke Stene from Tristania and Anita Auglend from The Sins of Thy Beloved come to mind here.
I personally still think that goth singers who were wearing this romantic look still did some things that lean it more towards goth and not just simple dark romantic by doing things like having big teased hair or "trad" like makeup while the gothic metal singers went for more simpler makeup styles.
No. 415300
I thought her look started out fine (ignoring those yellow nails) but then she added the platform boots and choker. I'll give her this, it was nice that she actually used casual normal clothes for her base (the bralette top and skirt) instead of using the tired boring goth-in-a-box garments, it actually does look like something an actual goth would wear. I was iffy with the corset but it's mainly because whenever I look at pictures or videos of goths in the 80s, I don't really see all that many wearing them but I do think for the look, it does compliment the outfit though I think the outfit would've also looked nice without it. Same deal with the harness, it looked a bit "eh" at first but seeing it all together, it doesn't look as bad.
But it's the platform boots and choker that take away from the look. I think my personal issue is when one has too many things happening at once. Besides the fact that platform boots are not trad goth and I think she should've used some pointy toed boots instead, I just think that having the platform boots with the super long spiky choker, and the harness, it feels like there's just so much going on which can take away from the look.
Overall though, this look definitely looks slightly better than what you usually see in these transformation videos that opt for the "goth in a box" approach. Would've been cool if she played some goth music though just to go with the theme of the video.
No. 415320
>>415300Is emo still a thing? They're different from my day. In my senior year we had a few emos. They would come to school with their arms slashed and bleeding. One kid decided to pierce his eyebrow with a safety pin because he was bored. All in all her transformation was okay. The sound effects were unnecessary, so I watched it at 1.5
I'm pretty sure Trads didn't paint their neck black. Agree about the shoes. Trads would have worn pointy shoes or boots like docs. And they wouldn't have gone with a harness. That plus a corset didn't match, imo. I wish they would do more research on the styles instead of scrawling through Pinterest. It's 10x better than the vid Freyja reacted to, lol.
No. 415327
File: 1721158806156.jpg (92.12 KB, 647x960, JohnySlut.jpg)
>>415322As for corset as disputed earlier - they were worn but they became a massive trend only in the '90s.
>>415320>And they wouldn't have gone with a harness. Why? There were a pretty famous goths wearing them back in the '80s. Peter Murphy and Johny Slut for example. There is a photographic evidence of both cases. BDSM wear was one of main sources of pieces worn back then. It wasn't the huge trend compared to nowadays but it was around already.
No. 415330
File: 1721159747454.jpg (155.76 KB, 1600x1188, tumblr_nx9updlicW1tlrio8o10_50…)
>>415327Yes, anon. I understand that men were wearing harnesses, I'm stating that I didn't see many Trad women wearing them. Their look was a basic black shirt or dress with tonnes of necklaces and belts. If they were involved in the Fetish part of the subculture they might have a harness or waist cincher. I'm just saying the girl in the vid was calling her look Trad goth, and women from the 80s usually didn't wear a corset
and harness at the same time. The shoes were wrong because goth is a music subculture and if you wore her boots to a gig, your blisters would have blisters.
No. 415349
>>415330Hmm, not like I deny what you wrote about her platforms but even most normie pointy balerinas could cause very similar issues. I remember family members having issues with them.
As for harness it was worn by females too but it's shape was different from most of your Killstar style harness stuff. Probably easiest way to find photos of examples of 80s female harnesses fro the USA would be photos of Wendy O Williams. She was not a goth band vocalist tho. There was also a lot of harness based (incorporating visible skeleton of harness) body suits. The theme was present enough to be noticeable but it was not the most popular choice of clothing. Probably due to prices as such stuff you would rather not find in thrift stores of the era. Probably the US scene had more examples than European ones. 45 grave's vocalist comes to mind.
No. 415689
>>415320I'm not entirely sure if emo is still a thing. I'm sure that emotional hardcore music is still being made just like goth music but I feel if the emo scene is still a thing, it's most likely underground like goth is.
You're right that trad goths in the 80s weren't doing things like painting their neck black, at least none that I've seen in pictures and videos anyway. And yeah even though it's clear this girl probably did just look up "trad goth" on Pinterest and is just imitating other zoomers who misinterpret the full authenticity of the look, I think her using regular clothes as a start up foundation is what makes it look a lot better than what you tend to see on Pinterest with Killstar and/or Shein/Romwe stuff that make it look bland and uninspired.
>>415322Regarding the platforms, I know that platform shoes had been around since the 1970s but what I mean here is that you didn't tend to see goths wearing big stompy boots in the 80s and it was usually either pointy-toed shoes/boots or combat boots (barring stiletto heel boots of course). The big stompy platform boots that defined Demonia were typically worn more by Industrial music fans. If the girl in the video wore platform shoes like the ones form the 1970s, I wouldn't have been bothered too much even though i still would think pointy toe or stiletto heel boot would've looked more authentic.
>>415330Pretty much what you said about the harness thing. Men did wear them but I can't recall seeing a lot of women doing that. I'm sure Siouxsie did at some point but other women like Annie Marie Hurst, the women from Xmal Deutschland, Gitane Demone, Patricia Morrison, etc.
>The shoes were wrong because goth is a music subculture and if you wore her boots to a gig, your blisters would have blisters.Exactly, the shoes that goths wore back in the 80s were comfortable enough to dance the night in whereas if they wore platforms like the ones used in the video, they'd be too uncomfortable to do the same lol.
No. 415707
File: 1721247200246.png (1.73 MB, 1080x1080, photo-collage.png.png)
>>415689>Exactly, the shoes that goths wore back in the 80s were comfortable enough to dance the night inAny search for 80s goth scene shows this is correct. Trads wore (mostly) flat soled shoes unless they were creepers. I like that the emo girl started with a base of real clothes and not Romwe or She-it. But I think if she wanted to be authentic she could have gone with said boots, imo.
No. 415719
File: 1721249194515.png (2.18 MB, 1080x1080, Trad80s.png)
>>415689>You're right that trad goths in the 80s weren't doing things like painting their neck black, at least none that I've seen in pictures and videos anyway. And yeah even though it's clear this girl probably did just look up "trad goth" on Pinterest and is just imitating other zoomers who misinterpret the full authenticity of the look,Trads didn't have much to work with and relied on accessories. Kudos to them for creativity. Zoomers try too hard to nail "the look" when it's not that complicated. Black shirt/dress, teased hair, 20 necklaces, 5 belts, black eyeliner and WHAM! Goth af. They overcomplicate it by having too much going on or add things that Trads didn't do(like painting their neck black). Looking through archival pics and Trads had basic black and their style was an expression of art and music. They lived for the music, not the fashion. The fashion was a cool by-product but I think Gen Z only focus on the fashion and that's why they feel generic. 80s goths weren't trying to impress anyone, that's all I'm trying to say.
No. 415918
File: 1721290032300.jpg (105.31 KB, 485x700, Joanne Mid 80s.jpg)
>>415707Yeah I've seen these pics and many others and if it was ever just regular goths or near a club, the shoes were usually flat for comfort. Obvious heels were seen as well but they were definitely not that common because even then the women and men who planned to dance knew their feet would not survive dancing to 5 songs in a row in heels lol And yeah, her base outfit was great, she just fell into the pitfall of thinking she need to go so OTT to fit the Pinterest standard which in the end subtracted points for authenticity. I'm sure she could've found some regular flat boots for cheap if she didn't already haven a pair lying around.
>>415719>Trads didn't have much to work with and relied on accessories. Kudos to them for creativity.For real, that is what makes looking at these old photos and videos so fun and a lot more interesting to look at compared to the modern day "goth" look that lacks the imagination.
>Zoomers try too hard to nail "the look" when it's not that complicated.This here. I think I pinpointed what it is that turns me off from a lot of the zoomers when they attempt to do the 80s look. I think it's just that they try to look perfect when the point of goth was to be creative and it wasn't about perfection. Think about it, they do the perfect sharp makeup but then pair it with the pre-cut styled (cheap) clothes from Shein/Romwe or Killstar and the clothes have that "new" stiff never been lived in look to them and then they pair it with corsets with harness worn over, and then wear those big stompy boots. There's just way too much going on and everything ends up clashing. The authentic way that was inspired by the music cemented itself in the "less is more" approach by using what appeared to look boring on the surface but were cheap enough to buy and if feeling daring, cut it up and DIY yourself and then use the jewelry to add that "character" to their look.
Because a lot of these zoomers don't actually care about the music, they're just going off a high that is fueled by TikTok sugar high and the spirit just isn't there.
>They lived for the music, not the fashion. The fashion was a cool by-product but I think Gen Z only focus on the fashion and that's why they feel generic. 80s goths weren't trying to impress anyone, that's all I'm trying to say.This makes perfect sense. The trenders are trying to impress people by trying to look as extreme as possible but missing the mark that it's not about being as extreme as you can be but just being inspired by the music and running with it.
No. 416039
>>415940When i listed the women, I was talking about how I hadn't seen any pics or videos of them wearing corsets though I retract Gitane Demone because of
>>415934 since okay, she did but to be fair, she was also a part of the BDSM scene or at the very least, she played around with that theme so it makes sense. But I don't recall seeing the other women I listed do the same. Maybe Eva O did but I couldn't find any pics/videos of her dawning one.
No. 416281
File: 1721378762554.jpg (179.51 KB, 871x1390, punk-girl-maria-perez-10th-apr…)
"Punk girl Maria Perez. 10th April 1981"
Posting as an example how creative one can be with look without all these brands we have now
No. 416284
File: 1721379228293.webp (20.68 KB, 444x282, shadow-project-bc364985-8bb5-4…)
BTW found another guy in harness
No. 416313
File: 1721389421804.jpg (207.44 KB, 1280x1920, 326a5faf65ede5c337bbf953c34804…)
>>415918>This makes perfect sense. The trenders are trying to impress people by trying to look as extreme as possible but missing the mark that it's not about being as extreme as you can be but just being inspired by the music and running with it.I've seen regular people dress Trad and they look like they walked out of a time warp. It seems these YouTubers are the ones that get it wrong because they're trying to look good and out do another YouTuber. "That person had a unique look that got them attention so I'M going to do extreme and get the view count!" This is the opposite of what goth culture is about.
>And yeah, her base outfit was great, she just fell into the pitfall of thinking she need to go so OTT to fit the Pinterest standard which in the end subtracted points for authenticity.It's things like that which drives my point: they care too much about what people will think. Archival interviews with Trads was enlightening. They were asked why they dressed like that and they would tell you. But they didn't care what you thought about it. That's the difference between today's goth kids and Trads, 90s and Millennials. Most pics you find of those era's wasn't a fashion contest. We were outcasts and embraced it. They try hard to be outcasts or out do each other and that's not the spirit of goth.
No. 416317
>>416313I'm sorry to inform you that edginess contests and
triggering the normies were a part of the '80s scene too.
No. 416324
>>416317They were
triggering the normies. Not each other in a popularity contest for clout.
No. 416326
>>416324>Not each other in a popularity contest for clout.Which goth
triggers you?
No. 417049
>>416313>I've seen regular people dress Trad and they look like they walked out of a time warp. It seems these YouTubers are the ones that get it wrong because they're trying to look good and out do another YouTuber. "That person had a unique look that got them attention so I'M going to do extreme and get the view count!" This is the opposite of what goth culture is about. Yeah that seems to be the case for most of them. But I'd even say that It'sBlackFriday as big of a cow that she is (check altcows thread for context), if you look back to her most earliest videos before she became a shill for goth-in-a-box brands, she even did this where she made outfits from simple basic garments and let the accessories help bring life to her look. Well besides her styling her hair the way she does.
But yeah what you said aobut how the youtubers and tiktokers these day are all about trying to out-do each other is so true and it's not the spirit of what goth is about.
>It's things like that which drives my point: they care too much about what people will think. Archival interviews with Trads was enlightening. They were asked why they dressed like that and they would tell you. But they didn't care what you thought about it. That's the difference between today's goth kids and Trads, 90s and Millennials. Most pics you find of those era's wasn't a fashion contest. We were outcasts and embraced it. They try hard to be outcasts or out do each other and that's not the spirit of goth.>They were triggering the normies. Not each other in a popularity contest for clout.This. I'm sure there were some people in the 80s who were dressing goth and/or punk for attention but I feel like there was more genuine interests in these respective scenes compared to now because back then there was no social media and no clout that existed. At most you might've gotten well-known in your own home scene but I dunno, I feel like that would've gotten boring real quick.
No. 417266
File: 1721597205538.jpg (184.65 KB, 704x1000, f61de4b0798debe0ece73d01ae6b08…)
>>417049>Yeah that seems to be the case for most of them. But I'd even say that It'sBlackFriday as big of a cow that she is (check altcows thread for context), if you look back to her most earliest videos before she became a shill for goth-in-a-box brands, she even did this where she made outfits from simple basic garments and let the accessories help bring life to her look.I remember some of those videos. It really sucks to see her sell out. Like I said up thread, I don't think Freyja is goth anymore, she doesn't feel genuine. See the picture of her on the alt boards next to real goths. She looked like a poser and it stood out. The people are into the subculture and IBF is the one wearing a costume. What she looks like now versus 10 years ago is startling. I don't think that has much to do with motherhood. It's like back then she was immersed in the subculture, but now she seems like a caricature of herself. All of her subscribers should read the alt boards and follow her shameful timeline.
>But yeah what you said aobut how the youtubers and tiktokers these day are all about trying to out-do each other is so true and it's not the spirit of what goth is about.Right, and I think that's why they all look the same while thinking they are different. Goth-in-a-box feels like Barbie with a few outfits that all match up. Perfect hair, perfect make up, new clothes. Tbh Zoomers are like Barbie dolls but instead of pink, they wear black because they think it's edgy. Barbie had many personalities; Malibu Barbie, Roller Barbie. So when Gen Z does goth, they turn it into Goth Barbie and that's what it looks like.
>This. I'm sure there were some people in the 80s who were dressing goth and/or punk for attention but I feel like there was more genuine interests in these respective scenes compared to now because back then there was no social media and no clout that existed.Exactly. I doubt people were trying to one up each other because goth was still a misunderstood scene. It was them against the world so most would congregate. I'm sure some people exaggerated their look as a big 'fuck you' to normies, but in all the glue of the scene is music. It took a lot of guts for them to embrace the subculture and not care what people thought. Like Angela said, they would get harassed and threatened. Why would other goths in your circle try to upstage each other when it made sense to stick together? You all care about the music, I'm sure they were emotionally supportive of their friends. They didn't have social media, they had actual social events. That's one reason the clothes had a lived-in look. They didn't care if their tights got snagged on a nail, it just added more character. I like seeing photos from the 80s and 2000s. You could tell we cared about the music and everyone's outfits were unique. We inspired each other but our clothes were done with our own personal touch.
No. 417338
>>417266>I remember some of those videos. It really sucks to see her sell out. Like I said up thread, I don't think Freyja is goth anymore, she doesn't feel genuine. See the picture of her on the alt boards next to real goths. She looked like a poser and it stood out.Yeah I do get what you mean here. I'm not entirely sure if that's the case but I understand why you feel this way. With her over the top, shilling of Killstar & goth-in-abox companies and her scamming history (which is still a thing now with the WGT documentary thing), she does feel like a hollow shell of what she used to be. I was feeling nostalgic and went ahead and put on some of her older videos for background noise while I was cleaning and I felt like there was a genuine person into the scene when watching/listening. Compared to now where it feels like she's playing a character and she could've very well checked out of the scene years ago but likes the attention that her appearance gets her so she sticks with it.
>Right, and I think that's why they all look the same while thinking they are different. Goth-in-a-box feels like Barbie with a few outfits that all match up. Perfect hair, perfect make up, new clothes. Tbh Zoomers are like Barbie dolls but instead of pink, they wear black because they think it's edgy. Barbie had many personalities; Malibu Barbie, Roller Barbie. So when Gen Z does goth, they turn it into Goth Barbie and that's what it looks like.Goth Barbie kek, that is so very true though. Barbies different personalities and job outfits were clean and perfect, cute one dolls but would make for boring on people. I think that's why gen z trying to not just do goth but also just Y2K fashion as well can look a bit off because they're buying a lot of these "in a box" clothes that look perfect but have the adverse effect of looking bland since they all look the same. On goth, I don't want to begrudge the zoomers who learn how to do the makeup because it is a skill for sure, I just feel that they should not worry about having perfect looking outfits is all.
Speaking of "goth barbie", I remember vidrel popping up in my feed a few months back when the Barbie Movie came out. No hate to the creator but there was nothing "goth" about the look and this is something I have thought about in general. It's just that when you actually partake in the scene and/or look at the true history and you learn that it really is a music-based scene, it makes it harder to comprehend how anyone can think a look like vidrel (or just in general) can look "goth" when the actual style is a reflection of the music so it makes me wonder how anyone could think "goth" when they see looks like that. Dark and edgy? Sure but "goth" is the last thing that comes to mind.
And I agree with everything you said in your third paragraph. There was no time to showoff and compete with each other when we all had the same struggle of being hated on by "normies". It didn't matter who was better dressed, we were all considered freaks and we only had each other to look out for one another since even teachers (for those of us in school) wouldn't do much to help us. And same, the 80s-early-mid 00s photos of goths will always be exciting to look back on because of the "lived in" feel of the outfits.
No. 417477
>>417338>Compared to now where it feels like she's playing a character and she could've very well checked out of the scene years ago but likes the attention that her appearance gets her so she sticks with it.I was thinking the same, she still dresses goth because it gets her attention. One video of hers was taking the child out, and someone complimented her and the goth baby. It made me realise she isn't goth anymore, she's just a spokeswoman for Killstar. I guess that's why she left her hoard for so long; she's no longer in the scene and didn't care what happened to it.
>Speaking of "goth barbie", I remember vidrel popping up in my feed a few months back when the Barbie Movie came out. No hate to the creator but there was nothing "goth" about the lookWitch Barbie and Vampire Barbie was basically Killstar crap. Someone should explain to Zoomers and babybats that just because it's black doesn't mean it's goth. Sad that they don't have a good role model. Freyja perpetuates the issue by shilling for Killstar and not being in the scene(there are better goth festivals than WGT). I would say Angela Benedict but she's pretending to be a Zoomer instead of a mature goth(what's wrong with being an eldergoth?) the good examples left YouTube and the few who still have channels have a real world life. So it goes back to the music since goth is a music subculture. But I think Gen Z would like someone they could relate to, especially if they live in a small town. Usually the goth scene doesn't exist or they might be the only goth for miles.
>we were all considered freaks and we only had each other to look out for one another since even teachers (for those of us in school) wouldn't do much to help us.That's the truth. I guess teachers didn't help because they thought we were freaks, too. When I was 15 the teacher commented on my black lipstick. She said 'It looks like you wrapped your lips around a chimney'. All in all the goth subculture doesn't really lose its spirit. We're still outcasts in society. We have to be 'normal' in the workforce, or be passed up for jobs. We might be adults but the jibes are still there. When I was a teen the snide comment was Halloween is in October!
Now that I'm in my 30s, the remark is 'You're too old to be dressing like that.' Being goth isn't a costume. Pretending to be normal is the costume. And it goes back to the music. The music speaks to who you are. The world might change, but the music is still there. Whether it's a bad day at work or a rude person on the street, I know I can go home, turn on my music and get lost in the sound.
No. 418438
>>418351Subject of trans is not left or right wing per se.
As for politics on that subreddit (supposedly banned topics according to their rules, at least it was for many years) - I remember that sub as a place where you can be an open stalinist denying genocides done by Soviet Union and that's OK, no bans or any comments from moderators. But criticizing in same post German National Socialism and Marxism-Leninism was a fast way to get a ban for "being a nazi".
Because being against nazism is a form of nazism. Logical.
It's one of reasons why many central and eastern Europeans are avoiding that subreddit. Reading that crimes of commies were just nazi hallucinations of "enemies of the people" is not a nice thing where you have relatives that were affected or killed by them.
No. 418473
>>418471but you said it didn't evolve
make your mind
No. 418475
>>418474turning back to psychodelic rock?
downsides where?
No. 420844
File: 1722577668499.webm (1.57 MB, 284x160, ITS FRIDAY FRIDAY FRI- -shop -…)
There's an artist I sometimes tune into on Twitch who's a self-proclaimed goth but really doesn't know much of anything about it and one night I was listening to her livestream while cooking and I hear her say this absolutely retarded take on goth.
>"Goth wasn't exactly a genre in the 80s"
Bitch what are you talking about? There were plenty of bands in the 80s that were playing (and developing) the goth sound. The Cure? The Mission? Gene Loves Jezebel? Christian Death? Specimen? The March Violets?
>"Goth was original grunge and punk"
The fuck are you talking about? The fact that she doesn't even mention post-punk made me suspect that she doesn't know the difference between something like punk rock and post-punk and grunge came after goth so how could've goth come before it?
No. 420845
File: 1722577841493.jpg (155.82 KB, 1000x750, GSvt2g8aEAAyq0P.jpg)
>>420844And this is her artistic interpretation of herself.
No. 421002
>>420845They/them, kek.
Why do they always do this? They rip off our subculture and change it to fit into their fantasy. Damn, I'm tired of green haired goblins reinventing goth like it's a new flavor of cheese. Interpret goth in your own way, just don't claim to be the voice of the culture.
No. 421099
>>421002Yeah the whole nonbinary thing is cringe as usual and the pathetic thing about this is that she's in her 30s but most of her friends are zoomers. From what I remember, she used to be on YouTube and she seemed relatively adjusted until she started befriending more gendie zoomers on Twitch/Twitter and that is when she had her "realization" that she's asexual and nonbinary. She posted vidrel but honestly I have not watched it because I know it'll just annoy me and after watching a few of her streams in the past, I more or less already know what she most likely said since she's shared about it in them and it was as retarded as you'd guess.
When it comes to goth, I remember thinking she was a poser because she'd always be vague whenever someone would ask her about what goth bands she liked and she'd try to evade the question with the "I like too many bands" excuse and move away from the subject and usually when I hear self-proclaimed goths say that, it's an indicator that the person doesn't actually listen to the music. Shallow I know but I've seen it play out like that far too much.
But the stream
>>420844 confirmed it to me that she really doesn't know jack about goth outside of maybe basic footnotes. And her friends don't question her on it too much since none of them are interested in goth and she complains about "elitists" and "gatekeepers" so that should tell you how she more than likely responds when around actual goths who can see right through her.
Anyway sorry for mini blog, it's just that when I hear he say what she said, I was in disbelief at hearing such a ridiculously ignorant take on goth and it not coming from a TikTok zoomer goff.
No. 421458
>>421394I suspect that she's one of those people who scrolls through goth on Tiktok and saw all the zoomers goffs dancing to Depeche Mode.
>GatekeepingIn the sense of keeping people in the know of what actual goth music is, absolutely. Especially if they're spreading lies like what she said in the clip about how goth wasn't really a genre in the 80s.
No. 421615
File: 1722798729436.png (125.49 KB, 720x834, Screenshot_20240804-200343~2.p…)
>>421394Yes to constructive gatekeeping. We can't have these attention seeking gendies misrepresent the subculture.
>Goth wasn't really a genre back thenWTF is she talking about? So many anons upthread discussed goth branching off from the punk scene. That's a fact. Even Wikipedia tells you that. All her following have to do is research to know that she's wrong.
No. 421619
>>421394eh if she's showing interest in the genre I think it'd be better to nudge her in the right direction
I don't know what the fuck she's talking about in the video though lol.. grunge evolved into goth, okay ahahaha
No. 421754
>>421615>WTF is she talking about? So many anons upthread discussed goth branching off from the punk scene. That's a fact. Even Wikipedia tells you that. All her following have to do is research to know that she's wrong.Like I mentioned upthread, her friends are not interested in goth at all so that's why none of them interject and try to correct her since they don't know or have interest in the scene. And she has complained about how so many goths are "elitists" and I'm sure you know what kind of person says that about goth.
She's also one of those people who likes to call anything dark or spooky as "goth". Like there's a coffee shop in her area that's theme is horror and she calls it a "goth coffee shop" even though it makes no reference or nod towards the music, it's just a genuine horror-themed coffee shop which is cool but not goth. She's just strikes me as one of those people who only want to be seen as goth because it's "cool" and/or quirky and she likes to dress in black and likes some gothic literature (which she made an interesting pet peeves video on vidrel)
No. 421907
>>421803Oh I remember ReeRee Phillips. Yeah she did the same thing too where she referred to herself as a goth but only listened to metal music and even admitted she didn't like "traditional goth music" which in other words, is just goth music because she could talk for days about metal and her favorite "goth" band was Type O Negative who aren't even goth. I think you can count that Emily Boo person as this as well.
But Twisted Disaster here, I don't think she likes metal neither. Not that it would make a difference but I've sat in a few of her streams and she plays a lot of video game music, mostly Castlevania and Legend of Zelda music which as a fan of those games, I think it's neat but when I put everything together with her where she complains about "elitists", doesn't know the truth about 80s goth, can't name many goth bands outside of The Cure & Siouxsie (which at this point, doesn't mean anything), seemingly avoids interacting with goths, and calls everything dark and/or creepy as "goth", she just comes off as a poser for sure. Heck there's even this recent video she made (vidrel) where she bought into the belief that she couldn't be goth because she wasn't buying expensive alternative brands and not once did she even mention music.
I've just come across too many self-proclaimed goths like this where they just really aren't. In this woman's case, she's a horror fan who loves the alternative aesthetic and that's all fine and good but it doesn't make her a goth but I know people like this throw fits when you say this and I think that's why she avoids interacting with actual goths because unlike her friends, they would more than likely call her out.
>>421833What
>>421853 said. Yeah it's true that some goths liked to read gothic literature but I feel like after the mid-late 90s, that wasn't really a thing. Most of the goths I've met don't really read gothic literature. At most they may have read Dracula, Interview with the Vampire, and/or Frankenstein and that's about the extent of it and I mean, can you really say you like gothic literature as a whole genre when you've only read one or two books from it?
No. 422042
>>421907A problem with thinking of gothic literature as core part of goth culture is the limited thematic scope in gothic literature, partly because of the low number of classics in the genre.
There are some great artists who were very inspired by gothic literature, but they tend to have a specific quaint or cryptic sound like early Sopor Aeternus or Cinema Strange that isn't related to much of the original goth music, and definitely not most of the newer goth music from the 2010s and later.
No. 422202
>>422152Oh no, I understood what you meant. Like I mentioned, Sopor definitely has dabbled with the darkwave sound but all I mean is that not all of their music was darkwave. I've seen people refer to
>>422131 as "darkwave music" and it's like, songs like that aren't darkwave, it's just the darker neoclassical and medieval classical style.
It really just depends on the song but based on most of what I've heard, I don't know if I would say that Sopor overall is a goth band because they do way more classical-driven stuff than the goth/darkwave that they seemed to do on occasion if that makes sense.
(Slight OT but it's such a shame that Sopor is a troon because the music is actually pretty good).
No. 425043
File: 1723844875907.webp (383.6 KB, 1792x1024, goth-family-tree-types-of-goth…)
This has to be the most fucked "goth" exmaple sheet I have ever seen kek. Besides the fact that more than half of the shit here isn't even actually goth, even the examples for the legit styles like trad/80s goth look nothing like actual 80s goth.
Here's the fucked article that comes with it, enjoy
https://www.litlookzstudio.com/blogs/news/types-of-goth No. 425051
File: 1723846796444.jpg (129.15 KB, 668x888, goth culture.jpg)
>>425043Wtf is that supposed to be? A Zoomers interpretation of Trellia's goth stereotypes? Using A.I. is so lazy, just like Gen Z: never any effort.
No. 425052
File: 1723847013909.jpg (117.57 KB, 886x960, 70a189c185103a15128f9a3bb0fefd…)
>>425043Yup, total rip off. Goth Family Tree with all the types plus made up ones. S-goth? What even is that?
No. 425060
>>425043None of these even make sense.
>Medieval Goth + Trad Goth = E-boy>Cyber Goth + Cadet = Emo>Medieval Goth to Glam Goth?>Victorian Goth to Deathrock>Steampunk having it's own box connecting to itself and RivetheadI thought only the art was AI but I think even this chart is AI because of these nonsense lines.
No. 425065
File: 1723849823818.webp (73.09 KB, 720x850, romantic-goth-outfits-and-tren…)
>>425060I think you're probably right because this shit makes no sense at all. But even the article is fucked. Look at what "romantic goth" looks like, are they fucking serious?
No. 425066
File: 1723849902772.webp (107.5 KB, 720x850, lolita-goth-outfits.webp)
>>425060>>425065And even though there is no such thing as "Lolita Goth" and Gothic lolita is not a goth style, look at what they use to illustrate the style. Looks nothing like Gothic lolita.
No. 425087
File: 1723859108396.jpg (75.22 KB, 502x747, 09724d75906858e446f6f97c7ad9fb…)
>>425077I dunno anon, I'm a mid/late millennial as well and though I was into "emo" (not really, just listened to pop punk like Good Charlotte lol), I just don't think it's great to lump it with goth because the music sounds nothing like goth and the aesthetic doesn't look the same either. I just believe "emo" should be tagged in with goth anything. If anything, it should be linked with punk rockers.
>>425083I mean, I could see the skirt on the right being used for a Gothic lolita cord but imagining all of it together? Hell no lol I get flashbacks to when Of Hers And Altars did a gothic lolita transformation and failed miserably managing to piss off the lolita cosplay kek.
No. 425094
>>425078Perfect explanation for this kek.
>>425084No idea but it's so clear that the person who made this doesn't listen to the music or knows much of anything about actual romantic goth fashion. Plenty of examples of it posted upthread lol.
No. 425110
>>425087AYRT, I agree emo should be lumped in with post-hardcore which is why I took issue with that in the chart. It just didn't bother me
that much since it was a common gateway drug, they're like… very different styles of dark aesthetic and one was much more mainstream in my age group than the other.
No. 425151
File: 1723874563912.jpg (47.63 KB, 453x673, GuessWhoWearingWhat.jpg)
>>425058>"deathrock" looks nothing like a deathrocker, what the hell.I guess you are one of these types to which "deathrocker" means stereotypical punk look cooked in darker sauce?
Suits don't match with deathrock? There been US bands dressing that way in the 80s. There is even at least one surviving video recording of interview with a few guys dressed in suits who were self identifying as a band playing deathrock (and it's clear that they were using term deathrock in the same way we are commonly using term goth nowadays). Heck you can even find photos of Rozz Williams like picrel.
No. 425205
File: 1723898516982.jpg (215.53 KB, 853x480, Kyle-in-Jennifer-s-Body-kyle-g…)
>>425092Paramore! I forgot about them, they got really big when Twilight came out. We had an emo girl in our group but we didn't consider her goth. We got annoyed trying to explain to people that emo and goth are not the same thing.
>But you both wear black.Nope, different music styles.
History repeats itself having to explain to people that black doesn't equal goth. Was Green Day considered emo? because I remember some kids did the bed hair/eyeliner thing like pic rel.
No. 425212
File: 1723899959810.jpg (105.36 KB, 720x1006, vampire-tears-candles-pack-of-…)
>>411360>You didn't had occult shops?Yes, anon we had occult shops and they were bloody expensive. It was much cheaper to stock up on black candles during Halloween. If the occult shop charged £8 for a black candle, you could buy twice the amount during Halloween and save that money for something else. One main point of goth is that it shouldn't be expensive.
>smearing kohl pencil>Wait, that is no longer a thing?Not in this era. Tik-Tok and Zoomers promote a 'clean' eyeliner look.
No. 425314
>>425096Yeah you're probably. Same deal with Sexbeat.
>>425110That's fair. I suppose you're right that for a lot of us millennials who were teens in the early to mid 2000s, a lot of us started with emo before getting into goth. I guess it's just awkward for me because whenever I have my days when I feel like listening to post-hardcore and emo, I listen and it just doesn't really give me the same "dark" feeling that goth music does if that makes sense? lol
No. 425319
>>425205><Paramore Yeah I was lucky enough to discover them right before Riot! came out and was a big fan. Ironically around the time Decode came out, while I did like the song, I kinda just fell out of them. I remember trying one of their new songs in the 2010s but they went all synth pop and I wasn't a fan. Funny enough I was curious to see what they've been up to and they actually made a post-punk song and it's not that bad imo lol.
And yeah, black is just a popular color. You don't see people saying the character The Nanny played by Fran Drescher is "goth" and she wore lots of all-black outfits. Black is just a versatile color.
Seeing that picture though, fucking nostalgic I remember seeing kids do a look similar to this as well kek.It's sad because you see zoomers trying to do looks like this but it just doesn't feel as genuine, probably because they're buying it "emo in a box" on Shein so just like the goth in a box thing that was mentioned upthread, it's another similar feeling with the 00s "emo" look as well.
No. 425339
File: 1723929022065.jpg (138.4 KB, 736x1116, f684756e1319f3bb2792fa9a29a8d4…)
>>425319>It's sad because you see zoomers trying to do looks like this but it just doesn't feel as genuineI think the same concept applies here when I explained why Zoomers fail trying to recreate millennial goth
>>407394 and
>>407477Zoomers doing emo looks like Barbie because it's too clean. One girl in our group wasn't emo but she liked some of the style. Arm warmers were a thing(thanks to Avril Lavigne) and I remember emos wearing striped ones. The girl stole her brothers socks, cut the feet off, and used a magic marker to draw stripes. That's how it's done. That's how you make it look authentic. It'd be cool if some of these YouTubers could
make the outfit before doing the style. Like Hey, I'm going to do trad goth, so I thrifted a black dress, sewed it on the waist to make it tighter. Then I found an old jeans jacket, dyed it black, added some studs and wrote lyrics from The Mission on the back.
Most times when they do a style they just throw things together. I remember emos doing some DIY, so that's the main thing that Gen Z lacks.
No. 425340
File: 1723929802334.jpg (53.71 KB, 456x774, Amy Lee 00s.jpg)
>>425339> Arm warmers were a thing(thanks to Avril Lavigne)Let's not forget Amy Lee, she was wearing them quite a lot back in the day as well (and I know a lot of us millennials had at least one pair kek). I remember I had a pair of black/red stripes socks and cut them into arm warmers.
I like your suggestion though, I was the anon who mentioned earlier how the problem with these zoomers doing these looks is that the clothes look too clean and "new" not having that lived-in look that truly makes these looks feel more genuine and eye catching to look at and the emo thing is similar. Like I shared
>>415300 this girl had the right direction until she added those platform boots but using her lived-in clothes did give that "lived-in" look.
With Emo, where I lived it was mostly band shirts and skinny jeans with a studded belt. It was pretty simple looking to be honest and I think part of the problem is that zoomers over-accessorize their "emo" look to where it looks more on the tacky side. Because with "emo", it was the hair that was the main eye-grabbing accessory that defined it. Even with actual emo i.e not the pop punk kids who were calling themselves emo, still had long messy hairstyles.
No. 425348
File: 1723931964818.jpg (342.62 KB, 1475x2143, 632f83c061db6c9ebc980353813d7c…)
>>425340I forgot Amy did arm warmers. They played Bring Me To Life so much I hated the band. I had a pair of purple and black striped arm warmers that I bought from Hot Topic. My dad didn't like the idea of me cutting up my clothes, so I bought arm warmers. If my friends went there it was for accessories.
I think some of the emos wore wrist bands to hide their scars. I started out goth but I remember there were a few emos in our school and more towards Senior year. They did DIY stuff like making bead necklaces or bracelets(for the girls) and the guys did paperclip/safety pin stuff. It was mostly hair in their face, band t-shirt, stud belt and black tennis shoes. Lip and eyebrow piercings were a thing and both goths and emos has them. I think the emos did the side lip piercing more than we did. They liked reading Johnny The Homicidal Maniac and Lenor. Or watching Invader Zim and wearing shirts with the characters on it.
>It was pretty simple looking to be honest and I think part of the problem is that zoomers over-accessorize their "emo" look to where it looks more on the tacky side.Like I said Zoomers try too hard to nail the "look" and it's not that hard. They overdo it because to them it's an idea not a life style.
>this girl had the right direction until she added those platform bootsYeah she did, lol. If Zoomers really want to capture the essence of millennial or trad goth they need to have limited access to money. Give them a couple of CDs, sewing supplies and set them free in a thrift shop.
No. 425755
File: 1724095715915.jpg (172.23 KB, 900x1200, Scene_Queen.jpg)
>>425348>They played Bring Me To Life so much I hated the band.That's fair. Personally I loved them at the time but I agree that Bring Me To Life was played so much that it got boring to hear. But when I think of "mallgoth", Evanescence is one of the first to come to mind since they were one of the leading examples of goth misappropriation from the mainstream music media.
>I think some of the emos wore wrist bands to hide their scars.Oh yeah, I do remember that trend. I never cut personally but I had a friend that did and she'd always wear wristbands.
>They did DIY stuff like making bead necklaces or bracelets(for the girls) and the guys did paperclip/safety pin stuff. You know that's actually a fair point, the DIY was more on the jewelry than it was on the clothes directly. I remember making a few beaded bracelets and two beaded necklace though my second one I fucked up on and it fell apart when I was walking to school one day kek.
> I think the emos did the side lip piercing more than we did.Yeah they were called "snake bite" piercings, they got more popular around 2006/2007 and you'd be hard pressed to find at least a couple of them having this piercing style.
>They liked reading Johnny The Homicidal Maniac and Lenor. Or watching Invader Zim and wearing shirts with the characters on it.Yes yes it's all coming back kek. I didn't really read much of Johnny the Homicidal Maniac but I remember it was very popular. I was really into Invader Zim though and had a Gir hoodie kek. But again, I remember a lot of these uberfans for Jhonen Vasquez media were just pop punk kids, I don't remember any of them listening to bands like Mineral, The Get Up Kids, or Thursday, it was MCR, Paramore, and Blink-182 lol.
>Like I said Zoomers try too hard to nail the "look" and it's not that hard. They overdo it because to them it's an idea not a life style.Yeah, I think it's just that they feel weirded out not over-accessorizing, they feel naked or not edgy enough if they only wear like one or two accessories. Just a lot of clashing whereas the reality was it was just simple and inspired by the musicians just like goth. I also think that it's because a lot of zoomers confused the scenekid/scene-queen style as "emo" when they were different. Scenekid/Scenequeen was when over accessorizing was a defining trait. Tutus, long side raccoon-striped hair, tiaras, big sunglasses, numerous layers of kandi necklaces and bracelets, etc. I've seen zoomers refer to this look as "emo" and they're so off-base there. The true emo look was not as over the top looking. But you're right, it's because they don't see it as a live-in lifestyle, just an idea, a quirky concept.
>Yeah she did, lol. If Zoomers really want to capture the essence of millennial or trad goth they need to have limited access to money. Give them a couple of CDs, sewing supplies and set them free in a thrift shop.Agreed, gotta force them to really think about a look with limited options and let the music inspire them as it did for us and older folks.
No. 425760
File: 1724096270097.jpg (46.24 KB, 440x561, 2000sgoth.jpg)
>>425370I wouldn't really consider Amy Lee's personal style "goth" but her look was very cool. I remember I wanted to re-create her Fallen era spiky hairstyle so bad but never could figure out how to do it lol.
But yeah, when I think "millennial goth" in the actual sense, I think something like picrel. Deathrock revival was quite popular in the mid 2000s
No. 425973
File: 1724177785060.jpeg (47.25 KB, 420x672, Angelspit2.jpeg)
>>425910>Many black + single color stripes. Setlists mixing industrial, aggrotech, nu metal and metal together. Yeah I was waiting for someone to mention this because I do remember this look being pushed as "goth" back in those days. VampireFreaks Models, Amelia Arsenic from Angelspit (picrel), the anorexia, etc. I ate this shit up as a millennial but when I look back in hindsight, this stuff wasn't actually goth and was more the continuation of Rivethead & the Industrial scene. I was only a teen during this time so I didn't go to clubs but I remember looking at event feature lists on VampireFreaks of some of my favorite Industrial bands at the time like Unter Null and Ayria and the venues being called "goth" they were playing at having next to no actual goth music.
So as cool as the looks were, I just can't personally see them as "goth".
No. 426125
File: 1724256384096.jpg (110.84 KB, 600x900, stripes.jpg)
>>425973Stripes were already 80s punk staple, they are as goth as any other pattern or plain black. I have stripes (and other patterns) in my wardrobe and I have no reason to get rid of them. They are still popular in Europe especially in more oldschool punky direction style outfit you can see at Gothic Pogo Festival or Return to the Batcave festival. You are just trying to put yourself into a small box of well defined narrow fashion trends. Fashion has rule over you. You are under control of stereotypes of your thinking.
No. 426128
File: 1724256671304.jpg (72.4 KB, 479x700, 0f2e0e5df694805aa99ac7f5872bf5…)
I have been saying it for years now - you can wear whatever the heck you want as a goth. You cab have whatever the heck you want on your head and of whatever the heck color you want (icluding natural, including blonde). If you are a goth - it would be easily recognizable.
No. 426149
File: 1724266284839.jpg (32.14 KB, 375x469, Anna Nurmi.jpg)
>>426125Where did I say that you should throw out your stripes? I never said that. And I wasn't saying that stripes as a whole weren't used in actual goth fashion, I was referring more to the striped arm warmers like here
>>425340 I'm aware that things like striped tops, jackets and blazers were utilized in some goth fashion like deathrock. I just don't see stripes as a full-on goth thing and I see it more as a general alternative thing that can go with any alternative style depending on how it's styled. But if I saw a woman dressed like
>>425973 , I wouldn't think she was a goth and I would think she's more into the Industrial scene vs if I saw girl dressed like
>>426126 or
>>426125 because of how it mixes in deathrock elements.
>>426128Never said that someone into goth music has to wear XYZ, hell I don't always dress like a steereotpical goth and I know it has no bearing on whether I am one or not since I know I genuinely like the music. I simply said that when I think of a "goth look", there are certain elements that make me think it vs something that comes across more general alternative. As I said above, as much as I liked Amy Lee's look, I wouldn't describe it as "goth" at all vs someone like say Anna Nurmi
With the Siouxsie example (I've seen this video numerous times, a good cover), the thing that would make think she (or a girl looking similar to that) as "goth" would be her makeup choice and hair. If she was wearing conventional makeup, I would think she was simply alternative and wouldn't assume she was goth right off the bat. It's a cool look though and it's what I mean where depending on how you style the stripes, it can be used for all kinds of different alternative looks.
No. 426276
File: 1724309933463.jpg (55.38 KB, 736x1139, 9f9fd7b7821958b25dce65fb72746f…)
>>426264Nah, I don't think that plain black and lace = goth neither, it's a combination of things. The overt things that make me think "goth" are things like big teased hair + the signature makeup style via inspired form Cleopatra, Kabuki and/or ghouls, winklepicker style boots (really just pointy toed black boots), ankhs, and rosaries all together. It's hard to explain but let me put it like this, like mentioned with Amy Lee above
>>425340 I don't see anything on her that makes me think she took inspiration from goth fashion (which would make sense as even she herself has stated in a few interviews that she had no interest in goth). It just looks like a mix of all kinds of alternative fashion trends at the time, especially the TRIPP style looking pants that were popular in nu-metal and Rivethead fashion during the 2000s.
But when I look at this guy here
>>425339 The rosaries, the pointy toe boots,and the layered tops make me think "goth" (also that he probably was inspired by Sisters of Mercy & Suspiria thus being inspired from goth music). Or here
>>416313 with her big teased hair combined with the sharp eye makeup and the layered jewelry incorporating a rosary. It just looks like she took inspiration from the goth music scene.
I guess what I'm trying to say here is that I'm more inclined to think someone looks goth if it looks like they took inspiration from the music scene which does have certain stereotypical looks that are popular within it. It's all about how one styles themselves that makes me think whether someone looks goth or not. And it's not a crime to not dress in an overt goth style, it doesn't make you less goth so long as you actually like the music even if you don't prefer to dress it.
No. 426291
>>426276>The rosaries, the pointy toe boots,and the layered tops make me think "goth"NGL, I have a rosary bought second hand. I removed the crucifix and added a key charm to it. Typical things that scream GOTH like layered necklaces and big hair are the staples. Personally I don't consider Tim Burton to be goth even tho he uses stripes in his clothes.
This look
>>426125 probably branched off from scene kids but with a darker palette. I remember this kind of thing on MySpace and Suicide Girls, kinda like the generic Instagoth nowadays.
>It just looks like a mix of all kinds of alternative fashion trends at the time, especially the TRIPP style looking pants that were popular in nu-metal and Rivethead fashion during the 2000sYeah, I'm thinking of bands(that weren't goth) wearing black or doing general alt. It's weird during that time KORN Kids were wearing all black skater style but had no connections to goth. It was also the time of fusion bands: pop rock, rap rock and that influenced goth at the time. I mean, Hoobastank had spiked hair and eyeliner but they weren't goth by a long shot.
No. 426298
>>425755>I also think that it's because a lot of zoomers confused the scenekid/scene-queen style as "emo" when they were different. Scenekid/Scenequeen was when over accessorizing was a defining trait. Tutus, long side raccoon-striped hair, tiaras, big sunglasses, numerous layers of kandi necklaces and bracelets, etc.Yeah, that started to happen towards the end of my time at school. There were a few emos but mostly we were one big alt crowd. And I remember Hot Topic catering to scenekids; extremely bright plastic bracelets(they took 2 and hooked them together), 80s stuff like Care Bears, candy necklaces and bracelets. Plus generic dark stuff like Emily the Strange and Lenore. I read a few of the comics but wasn't into it.
>Agreed, gotta force them to really think about a look with limited options and let the music inspire them as it did for us and older folks.That's why they fail doing goth. It always looks like a costume on them. It's like if one of them did a hippie look. It doesn't look right when they do it. Hippies were into DIY because they didn't like waste and were trying to break away from corporate brands. Their clothes were worn out, patched up and organic. You could see that with punk and goth. The style looks organic because you add your personal touches to it. It didn't come off the production line ready to wear. The boots and clothes were broken in and looked like you're immersed in the music/ lifestyle. Killstar, Romwe and Shein have done a great job on commercializing our subculture.
No. 426927
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No. 427726
>>427524Was a thing both in USA and Europe.
Also here and there you had (and still have) few "parallel" scenes in same cities - like trad crowd and crowd mixing many things. It has more to do with music tastes than distances between venues (as some of them been close to each other or even sharing same venue).
No. 428609
>>427524Industrial metal became more of a thing in the late 90s tbh. Some bands were taking metal characteristics and mixing in some Industrial sounding keyboard synths and sfx, pretty much the same as industrial rock but with metal guitars. I'm American and I feel like it was a tad more popular in America though this isn't to say that the UK didn't have as much explosion since Rammstein is one of the most prominent examples of industrial metal (though in their country, they call it "Neue Deutsche Härte".
I'm a millennial so I didn't go to clubs so my only exposure was through music sites but especially VampireFreaks since that site featured a lot of industrial music (that was labeled "goth" but we know better than that now lol). But I remember when I was high school, whenever someone talked about "goth", they would always reference industrial acts like Rammstein, Fear Factory, and Nine Inch Nails but that's just dumb teenagers who didn't know what they were talking about and at least where I was, I never heard actual goth music being mentioned.
>>428376You're assumption is correct. I may not have been clubbing yet but based on what I saw on VampireFreaks' forums, there was no merge and the only thing that really happened aside from the mislabeling of industrial music as "goth music" was that the clubs would feature music from both scenes.
No. 428681
>>428609From what I saw going to clubs and festivals and looking at who was on what record label, there was a definite bubble of goth, industrial, darkwave, synthpop, new wave, neofolk, noise, dark ambient music that was a recognizable "goth scene" for lack of a better word while things like metal, nu metal, punk, rockabilly etc. may have taken a few musical/aesthetic inspirations but had completely separate scene infrastructure.
Maybe the problem was always that the wider scene used the same name as one of the component genres.
No. 429050
File: 1726212658667.jpg (246.04 KB, 720x960, late_medieval_knight_shoes.jpg)
>>428914Ethereal is still goth.
Medieval dresses are as fine as any other dresses or clothing in general, as there is no "canon" of goth wardrobe. We are not Teddy Boys or Lolita Fashion. Beside pikes are literally based on medieval patterns of shoes like picrel.
No. 429155
File: 1726235656913.jpg (108.56 KB, 640x993, 417.jpg)
>>429050>Ethereal is still goth.>Beside pikes are literally based on medieval patterns of shoesFacts. Dresses like picrel were all the rage in the 90s and 2000s. Ethereal/medieval is more Goth than goth but definitely belongs in the subculture. People say it branched off from goth, but I think ethereal went back to its Renaissance roots if anything.
No. 429180
>>429050If ethereal style is still considered goth, would you say
>>425973 is also goth?
No. 429200
>>429180There is no "ethereal style" there is ethereal music and it's fans dressing in whatever the fuck they want.
General goth also has no rules on how you are supposed to dress, there are some running cliches due to trends, common inspirations or share sensibilities but there are also new trends entering the general goth fashion every few years and there are many goths dressing in unique ways as well as dressing like modern normies, some dress like nrmies of the '80s etc. Goth fashion is a living, running experience shaped by goths, it does not run goth itself. It's a bonus created as a form of self expression by fans of music, not some set of rules to follow.
>>429155Ethereal is just goth rock played slower in more ambient and dreamy manner rather than your regular punk rock lively extravaganza. Some of ethereal wave bands incorporated neoclassical influences inspired by music of different historical eras (like medieval, baroque, renaissance etc). But not all ethereal bands had such historical influences. There were also bands playing "regular gothic rock" with historical or folk music elements.
No. 429303
>>429155Heavily disagree here. Medievel dresses are not "goth". Yes they were popular in the 90s and 200s, Lisa Hammer from Requiem in White & Mors Syphilitica was known to wear them on stage and the style is beautiful but just because a goth musician (in this case) wore a medieval dress, it doesn't make it automatically goth. It depends on if they add "goth" elements to the look like here
>>405237 (the pikes). Usually it would be things like the pikes, the big teased "Trad goth" looking hair, and/or rosaries. You know, just things that make the look more than just a straight up medieval style played straight. The big hair combined with the striking makeup (ala Siouxsie Sioux - yes, her makeup was pretty much an inspirational blueprint), the ankhs and/or rosaries, and the pikes, are the staples of the goth look and these characteristics were used to carve out other styles through the music.
What I'm trying to say here is that simply wearing a medieval dress and styling your hair in a medieval way does not equal "goth look", it's what you add to it that can make it more "goth" looking.
It's true that goth doesn't necessarily have "rules" in fashion as plenty of 80s goth bands didn't look super stereotypical like the fans per say but there's no denying that there were certain style variables that helped define the look.
>thereal is just goth rock played slower in more ambient and dreamy manner rather than your regular punk rock lively extravaganza. Some of ethereal wave bands incorporated neoclassical influences inspired by music of different historical eras (like medieval, baroque, renaissance etc). But not all ethereal bands had such historical influences. There were also bands playing "regular gothic rock" with historical or folk music elements.Like I explained to
>>429208, not all music that was being labeled "ethereal" was goth music. A lot of it like the aforementioned bands that other anon questioned, they were usually just darker styled neoclassical, dark ambient, and/or dream pop (that was confused to be ethereal goth).
>>429235I can probably help with this. I know what you mean with how Black Tape for a Blue Girl and Autumn's Grey solace don't sound like "goth" and that's because they aren't. I know where you're coming from though because I remember when these bands were called "ethereal wave" but they actually weren't. Love Spirals Downwards and Autumn's Grey Solace were actually made dream pop and ambient music. Black Tape for a Blue Girl tended to make dark ambient, neoclassical, and (some) neofolk music. I remember when people would refer to BTFABG (and bands like them) as "necolassical darkwave" but the term is really a misnomer because every band that was labeled as this didn't have any darkwave (goth + synthesizers) and were usually pure classically driven sounds and I feel like people at the time thought these bands were darkwave because they sounded "dark" but as we learned, goth does have a distinctive sound even in the subgenres that came from it.
An actual ethereal wave band like Lycia or This Ascension, Autumn Grey Solace sounds nothing like them for example.
No. 429397
>>429180>Medievel dresses are not "goth".Goths are not Teddy Boys, they wear whatever they want. Teased hair does not belong exclusively to goths. Drag Queen makeup does not belong exclusively to goths. BDSM gear does not belong exclusively to goths. Pikes does not belong exclusively to goths [yes, they been worn also by non goth punks]. Laces does not belong exclusively to goths. Rosaries does not belong exclusively to goths. Biker jackets does not belong exclusively to goths.
>It's true that goth doesn't necessarily have "rules" in fashion as plenty of 80s goth bands didn't look super stereotypical like the fans per say but there's no denying that there were certain style variables that helped define the look.Because there were fads, trends (many of which came from mainstream '80s fashion), popular trendsetters, single shops with "alternative" stuff within 200km radius, people been meeting in single club getting "inspired" by each other. As well as factors limiting people in their fashion choices. That alone does not constitute existence of rules. I have been to many events with international attendance in Europe and I have seen people dressed in so many alternative outfits I do nor believe in any "rules of goth look". Looking like copy cats is typically characteristics of younger audience as they age they are becoming much more individualized in their looks.
Historically also every country looked differently.
I personally do not recall any medieval dresses worn in the '90s in scene of country I live in.
Agreed on that part about mislabeling bands. Many of them had songs belonging to different genres on single albums.
But some of these songs could belong to goth. Some groups just had a very broad palette of sound. Like I clearly hear goth influences in song in vidrel. But many other their songs does not bear any noticeable to me elements inspired by goth.
No. 429602
File: 1726347654985.jpeg (39.22 KB, 570x426, 11366_119156981601649_10842916…)
>Goths are not Teddy Boys, they wear whatever they want. Teased hair does not belong exclusively to goths. Drag Queen makeup does not belong exclusively to goths. BDSM gear does not belong exclusively to goths. Pikes does not belong exclusively to goths [yes, they been worn also by non goth punks]. Laces does not belong exclusively to goths. Rosaries does not belong exclusively to goths. Biker jackets does not belong exclusively to goths.
I still stand by what I said. I'm not saying that these things are goth automatically nor originate from goth neither but what I am saying is that these things rolled into one created the stereotypical look. Are you really gonna say that if you saw a person dressed like the girls in picrel, you wouldn't suspect or assume (even if it turned out wrong) that they may be fans of goth music?
>That alone does not constitute existence of rules.
Again, I didn't say that there were "rules" to goth fashion, I just said that there is a stereotypical look that is associated with it. But you don't have to dress it if you don't want to, hell I don't even look like a tradgoth myself and I'm a lot more casual in my look but I acknowledge that there is a stereotypical look that the scene has.
And I still stand by my original comment that a simple medieval dress is not a "goth" look. If I saw a woman walking down the street wearing a medieval gown, I would think she was a fan of renaissance fairs and "goth" wouldn't come to my mind at all.
>I personally do not recall any medieval dresses worn in the '90s in scene of country I live in.
I don't think it was really a thing at all. Lisa Hammer during her Requiem in WHite days wore them on stage but whenever I look at footage of goth clubs from the 90s, I don't see much of any wearing those dresses aside from one in one video I saw years ago but this woman wore 80s layered cross necklaces and had big teased hair but aside from that, I really don't think it was a common thing at all. I think what might've happened was that some people may have mistaken the romantic look that was popular in the 90s as "medieval", I've seen some people do that and the thing was that a lot of these people couldn't really tell the difference between different period style dresses (like calling Regency era dress as "Victorian").
>But some of these songs could belong to goth. Some groups just had a very broad palette of sound. Like I clearly hear goth influences in song in vidrel. But many other their songs does not bear any noticeable to me elements inspired by goth.
Yeah I can definitely hear the goth influence here as well but a lot of their songs just don't give off that same vibe which would make sense since Sam Rosenthal had said that he doesn't like to tie himself prefers electronic and atmospheric music so it makes since that the bulk of his music reflects that. Same deal with Love Spirals Downwards. Most of their music sounds like dream pop and dreamy sounding trip-hop but their song "Depression Glass" has some ethereal Goth vibes to it but ultimately, that vibe doesn't describe the bulk of their work.
No. 429786
>>429602>Again, I didn't say that there were "rules" to goth fashion, I just said that there is a stereotypical look that is associated with it.You said that medieval dress "is not goth" which directly implies you believe is existence of "rules of goth fashion". Otherwise your claim would be baseless as you would not have any means of qualification without set of rules.
>Are you really gonna say that if you saw a person dressed like the girls in picrel, you wouldn't suspect or assume (even if it turned out wrong) that they may be fans of goth music?Yes, they _may_. They don't have to be tho (as proven by numerous cases on social media). And back in the '80s they could have been fans of few other punk related genres (even some industrial bands were sporting black teased hair and all black "punky" clothing with pale makeup and black eyeliners) and no necessary having any liking to gothic rock (a.k.a. coldwave, a.k.a. deathrock etc). The closer to the '80s the less unique to the goth such look is. It's not even dominant look among goths back then.
No. 429862
File: 1726406739047.jpg (53.64 KB, 600x374, skp.jpg)
>>429786Oh yes there was a lot of aesthetic crossover. Here's Skinny Puppy from back in the 80s, with some of their audience here
https://www.reddit.com/r/industrialmusic/comments/13346ok/my_aunt_her_friendsand_then_other_concert_goers/Going by interviews and some of the covers you come across, I'd say a good number of band people were fans of both genres though.
No. 429899
>>429862Black hair dye was often the only "alt looking" (standing out from general public) dye available in many parts of the world where naturally jet black hair were not that common hence general punks alt-rock musicians in many European countries sporting black hair. Blue, green and other unnatural colors were not that easily available to many outside of big cities and behind Iron Curtain almost impossible to for regular person (for example you could have get some dies if you had relatives in The West who would send them to you). In such circumstances you were often limited to your natural color, dying hair black or using lightener to turn your hair platinum blonde. Which is easily visible on old photos and videos from back in the '80s for example from Polish punk festival in Jarocin (where Polish coldwave bands were a pretty big part of lineup). Youtube vidrel is a documentary from 1987 edition. I think western nonas may find it interesting how Polish punks looked back then.
In country I live in where your average population is mostly brown haired dying hair black was a mark of being a "hardcore rocker" alternative person no matter which genres you were interested in well into early '00s when unnatural colors like pink, purple etc started to be sold even in regular shops in more provincial towns.
No. 429907
>>429900While Poland is mostly shades of brown regarding to hair color kids dying their natural hair black was very shocking to older generations (was seen as "satanic" as rock was seen as "music of Satan" by older religious population or as rebelious "antisocialist act" by communist regime officials).
I remember teacher been giving a damn about students dying hair black or lightening them to blond even well into late '00s and I can find news articles about conflicts about hair dye from as recent as mid '10s.
Adding another video from Jarocin, this time 1985 edition.
No. 429916
File: 1726416515766.jpg (270.55 KB, 1000x1000, koolaid.jpg)
>>429899>many European countries sporting black hair. Blue, green and other unnatural colors were not that easily available to many outside of big cities and behind Iron Curtain almost impossible to for regular personMy friends used to bleach their hair and dye it with Kool-Aid. It looked like shit, but in a small town you couldn't find Manic Panic. Unless your city had Hot Topic, you had to get creative.
No. 429917
>>429916Ah, right. Food coloring was an option too. Until you get sweaty in mosh pit or rain starts.
This time color video from Jarocin 1982 edition. It was a transition period from '70s rock to punk rock dominance of later years.
No. 429925
File: 1726419267223.jpg (195.45 KB, 1280x1280, P0.jpg)
>>429602>that, I really don't think it was a common thing at all. I think what might've happened was that some people may have mistaken the romantic look that was popular in the 90s as "medieval", I've seen some people do that and the thing was that a lot of these people couldn't really tell the difference between different period style dressesI remember these dresses existing online, but they were so damned expensive that people didn't really buy them. Dresses like picrel is labelled Lip Service 2003. Other brands that catered to Romantic was Jeannie Nitro and Drac-in-a-box. Those gowns used heavy fabric, I think that's why you wouldn't see people dressed like that in a club. btw the person selling that Lip Service dress is charging $500 for it. It would be cheaper to make it yourself!
No. 429946
File: 1726425523261.webp (7.95 KB, 350x222, a_960991_1315493286jpeg.webp)
>>429862I've seen this photo and picrel a hundred times by this point and yeah, Skinny Puppy's earlier years, they did dress like goths and if you didn't know they made industrial music, you would've thought they were a goth rock band.
But I feel like aside from them and maybe early Ministry, not many industrial bands in the 80s looked like this. From what I've noticed, a lot of the early industrial bands from the 80s had more casual looking fashion and the "alt" vibes would come from how they styled their hair.
No. 429951
>>429925Yeah I remember seeing dresses like this in Hot Topic back in like 2002/2003 as well as some online shops. I remember Morbid Threads having some dresses like these as well. Expensive as hell and this is why I don't think they were as common one would think because most goth teens and young adults were not swimming in money.
>>429928Honestly I feel like Miranda Sex Garden was only goth for a short stint in the early mids 90s. Like Black Tape for a blue Girl, they seemed to be really into darker atmosphere music though I think if you were to compare, Miranda Sex Garden did a few more goth songs than BTFABG.
I was really into Miranda Sex Garden when I first discovered them right before they broke up and Katherine Blake went onto form Medieval Baebes but Medieval Babes was definitely not a goth band and was a classical and folk music. And it would make sense why they'd lean more into medieval fashion. It's kinda like how Rasputina dressed in Victorian inspired garb to go with their old-world influenced music lol.
No. 430009
>>429951>It's kinda like how Rasputina dressed in Victorian inspired garb to go with their old-world influenced music lol.Oh wow, that's a name I haven't heard in awhile!
It's like some might think Emily Autumn is Victorian, because she wears a few pieces. I tend to think she's more Cabaret/Burlesque goth, even though it isn't goth but a branch off. The weirdest branch off for me is Gothabilly. Idk what to make of their music.
No. 430017
File: 1726439179486.jpg (27.47 KB, 448x522, 398552487_abe9f4c9f6_o.jpg)
>>429951>Yeah I remember seeing dresses like this in Hot Topic back in like 2002/2003 as well as some online shops. I remember Morbid Threads having some dresses like these as well.Found a pic of this girl for her 8th grade graduation (2001). Definitely some kids wore those dresses if they could afford it. I was scrolling her Flickr and dying from the nostalgia. Typical Millennial teen, the friends, the hair, the clothes. I can totally tell she shopped at Hot Topic, lol! The plastic glittery Care Bear/Strawberry Shortcake shirts. The Kittie lunchbox. Her cringing at being into AOL RPG chats.
I love her friend's bedroom wall covered in magazine posters and pics of each other. I gotta say it. We were so much cooler than Zoomers!
No. 430055
>>430009Oh yeah, I was really into Rasputina in the 2000s. And same with Emilie Autumn, it's a shame that she's a lolcow and lost her artistic spark in the last decade because she made some pretty nice music. I don;t think her music is goth though and when I look back at her fashion sense, it doesn't really feel "goth" to me anymore but rather just alt-girl mixed with neo-victorian. I remember she would refer to her music as "victoriandustrial" and I can certainly hear the industrial vibes in her music, moreso pre FLAG era.
>GothabillyThis got me as well but to be brutally honest, I honestly don't think "gothabilly" is a real thing. When I think back to bands that were referred to as "gothabilly", they were really just psychobilly and psychobilly is like horror punk but with more rockabilly mixed in. I haven't heard a goth band that took on the rockabilly sound while adding goth guitar work to it. I think it was just once again people thinking that dressing in all black with horror themes = goth.
>>430017I've seen this picture before! I didn't know she was in 8th grade but that's cute and 13 year old me is envious that she got to own one of those dresses kek. And hearing that description, I feel the nostalgia as well. It's such a shame that we'll never see anything like this era again, the last before social media culture took over.
Something I've thought about is that the reason why zoomer alt fashion looks so bland despite it being more accessible, could it also be that social media has ruiend the alternative mystique since the style is practically all over social media sites like TikTok and Instagram? Like for any other millennials, think back to the 2000s and how it felt like alternative looking people were a lot rarer to find (unless you lived in a big city) and how even back in the MySpace days, because we (thankfully) didn't have the luxury to carry MypSpace with us everywhere by phone, there wasn't much prolonged hypefixation on alt fashion (and there was more emphasis on getting lost in the music we listened to for comfort lol)
It's just a thought anyway.
>>430021Sad but true. And even for the zoomers who are genuinely interested in certain long-standing subcultures, it may be hard for them to find others around their age who are also genuinely into it for the music and not just for looking edgy.
No. 430156
>>430132I know it can feel bleak but I think if you can find some who are genuinely into the music and scene, it doesn't have to be all bad. The challenge is just finding them lol.
>>430135I was speaking more of the ones who are under 21 and can't go to clubs. But I agree, the ones who are old enough, they should be going to the clubs or concerts (of goth bands) if they want to meet more fellow goths.
No. 430169
File: 1726486191549.jpg (95.1 KB, 640x480, 399538061_6713530a6b_o.jpg)
>>430055>Something I've thought about is that the reason why zoomer alt fashion looks so bland despite it being more accessible, could it also be that social media has ruiend the alternative mystique since the style is practically all over social media sites like TikTok and Instagram?Yep. Zoomers have internet at their fingertips and they don't experience life. As a Millennial, we actually used to hang out together. Some of us had cameras and some didn't. The one with the camera would snap pics of us chillin or at a party and send them via email later. Zoomers miss out on the social thing, because goth/punk is a social thing. It's not a fashion show. We went to concerts and if we couldn't we just hung out, listened to the newest CD, maybe drink some alcohol. If Zoomers really want to embrace the subculture, leave the iPhone at home or get a basic one for emergencies. Go out and talk to people. Don't be afraid to talk to older heads about the music and lifestyle. See, it's a
life style not a social media concept. We went online to find like minded people or music and we searched the web at night. Not every second of the day. During the day or weekend we hung out with friends, went to the park and ate lunch. Talked about music or life in general.
No. 430505
>>430485Get a kohl pencil and start from learning how to apply it around eyes and how to smear it. No primer or foundation cosmetics needed. And it's easy to jut wash it and start again. If you have never applied any makeup you are lacking dexterity needed to draw even semi precise lines. You need practice.
If I have very little time to apply makeup before going to event (sometimes I go to events almost straight after work having time only for shower and sometimes I have to travel to other city which "eats" some time I would normally spend on putting more elaborate look) I just apply kohl pencil and smudge it.
Good news looking like a zombie with makeup washed by a
toxic rain is perfectly fine in goth circles. Just look old Alien Sex Fiend or Virgin Prunes photos.
No. 430507
>>430505after mastering kohl pencil try applying smokey eye type makeup - two shades of brown - lighter applied first and darker later and black shade/kohl last
and later you can practice gel or liquid eyeliner if you want to go toward more elaborate styles
If you are very desperate to gain precision and dexterity needed to draw long striking lines - just take a liner or kohl pencil and draw pictures (cobwebs, flowers, cats, houses whatever - it's just manual practice) on your forehead/face for several minutes daily.
That should be enough for start, rest is the question of own experiments (everyone has different skin that requires different treatment ad cosmetics).
Ah and if you have problems with keeping cosmetics on your face for longer than few minutes invest in fixer. Like these used in theaters - makeup would stay on your face for literally dozens of hours.
No. 430512
File: 1726573977589.png (157.06 KB, 339x527, fixers.png)
>>430507These 2 are the best makeup fixers available in Poland (The left on is easily available in Rossmann stores in Poland). The one from Kryolan should be accessible pretty much everywhere in Europe and in many other parts of the world.
As for powders - I would recommend rice powder - turns most foundations into much lighter tone.
No. 430529
>>430473I used to have problems making symmetrical wings with eyeliner. Vidrel has helped me every time. I use a papery tape so it doesn't hurt when you remove it. She uses liquid eyeliner but I've always used a kohl pencil.
Her older videos are better for learning makeup techniques. Once you practice the basics, you can build up from there.
No. 431055
File: 1726744443522.jpg (22.26 KB, 309x350, uvwedgeboots.jpg)
>>431053>Item no DM0460 UV panelled wedge boot with platform sole. Available in black leather or patent. Price: £120.00.These were times of creativity
No. 431090
File: 1726759478108.jpg (60.68 KB, 640x480, 398547501_ab8375fd8f_o.jpg)
>>430132Same. At least mall goths were listening to music. Do Zoomers even listen to more than 3 seconds of a TikTok video? Can they name any bands aside from Bauhaus?
No. 431487
File: 1726857481932.png (326.04 KB, 494x621, 1726705326102.png)
>>86956Tell me how to find him
No. 431548
>>431487Holy crap, I gotta admit that that looks pretty cool! Awesome share anon.
Though following link provided by
>>431509 left, the guy doesn't really come off as an actual goth, just a "Instagram Goth" (i.e. not a real one). But ah well, I can admit that he does have a nice fashion sense lol.
No. 431673
File: 1726910027082.jpg (79.35 KB, 1280x720, 4956f15a77e0063dc0c4b8936863a6…)
>>271514>I really want to discuss this topic here: is goth intrinsecally linked to DIY, thrifting and low budget fashion? I certainly think so.Yes. Because goth spawned from punk and punks were against the government. They gave them the finger saying 'We don't need you and your corporate shite'.
That's where the DIY mindset came into play. Use what's already there eg. second hand shops, meaning you are supporting local instead of corporate. Engaging in creativity, giving yourself something useful to do(you designed your outfit, not a slave in a 3rd world country). Goth and punk is a cluster of like minded people, so sharing ideas, hacks, advice etc keeps the community going. Plus the music brings people together(and goth is a community after all) so going to gigs and being social with those like minded people is a must. It's sad to see the culture become what it has. Vivienne Westwood marketed punk fashion and it became a corporate company (which is the antithesis of punk). The same has happened to goth, where it's a fashion sense instead of a way of life. It's having its moment right now, but as long as the elder goths keep that in check, we'll be alright.
No. 432027
>>431992To commie regimes punk was ebil western imperialistic plot what been well documented in commie state propaganda materials from all over eastern bloc. That's why punks were persecuted by government and secret police was invigilating the punk crowd and militsya beating them after gigs, some punks disappeared without trace. That's why punks were presented in public TV as drug junkies and unemployed parasites feeding on working class - which is visible in Jarocin festival videos published here. Deal with it. No one was denying that church and its crowd was against punk too, it was even mentioned. So quit your butthurt because someone dares to name commie regimes ebil. If you think LGBT had it better in commie Poland (when everyone was pretending homosexualism does not exist and even if it does homosexuals shall shut up about their orientation because talking about it was too scary, also sexual orientation was a great blackmail material for state secret police against opposition and political adversaries and were forced to have an official state "card of a homosexual"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Hyacinth and a "pink file" where secret police was collecting all information they could find about your sexual life) than nowadays then you have no fucking idea what you are even talking about. You don't even imagine how fucking much. But I forgive you due to your very young age and living in a totally different reality.
(derailing) No. 432185
>>432106Why don't you get over the fact that not everything labeled as "goth" actually is. I knew who Cocteau Twins were before I knew who LSD were. In fact I discovered them after listening to their "Head Over He4ls" album back in the late 2000s and I was recommended them when I wanted to find similar sounding stuff. I know enough from what the goth sound sounds like (even in ethereal wave) vs something like dream pop and folky sounding ambient.
>IdyllsTheir debut album yes, it did fall in Ethereal Wave but just like Cocteau Twins before them, they moved away from it and experimented with other sounds in their later albums, especially with Ever and Flux.
>>432108>Autumn's Grey Solace and This Ascension sound alike (paraphrase)Are you serious? When was this last time you listened to This Ascension? Autumn's Gray Solace doesn't sound like them or Lycia at all. The Idylls album of Love Spirals Downward sounds similar but not the later stuff because again, they moved away from that sound.
With Autumn's Gray Solace, I'll admit that I have not heard every album from them since they have many but everything I've heard so far, doesn't sound goth at all, the instrumental sound sounds closer to early Slowdive.
No. 432287
>>432185>The Idylls album of Love Spirals Downward sounds similar but not the later stuff because again, they moved away from that sound. Nobody said that the later stuff is ethereal wave. You just showed your ignorance by admitting that one of the most famous ethereal wave bands is not ethereal wave. At least you admitted your mistake though.
>With Autumn's Gray Solace, I'll admit that I have not heard every album from them since they have many but everything I've heard so far, doesn't sound goth at all, the instrumental sound sounds closer to early Slowdive.Are you serious? You haven't listened to the band but are spreading misinformation that they sound nothing like ethereal wave? This shows that your opinions aren't to be trusted because you don't even bother to do basic research.
By the war, early Slowdive were also ethereal wave.
No. 432383
File: 1727103479353.jpg (150.99 KB, 1080x1350, Luxurious-and-Romantic-Textile…)
>>432164>Yeah I was never too keen on turning your house into a cheap Halloween store that you just happen to live in.I'm thinking about Freyja when you said that. It's a new-ish concept that everything in your house
has to be black. Killstar helped seed that idea, because in the 90s and 2000s most of us didn't do that. Like the woman was saying here
>>396539 you could paint the walls black and it would be stereotypically goth. Most goths didn't go All Black Or Nothing. It's darker tones, velvets, brocades, patterns etc. I prefer this over turning your house into Halloween Town.
No. 432412
File: 1727112678368.jpg (621.11 KB, 1349x1303, Antimony&Lace DIY.jpg)
Sharing DIY from Antimony and Lace. I miss that site.
No. 432577
>>432555Have you seen
https://www.vamp.org/gothic/has a nice list of long gone clubs, some photos, old FAQ and some other stuff
No. 432649
File: 1727191424513.jpg (127.4 KB, 1200x1200, 1200x1200bf-60.jpg)
is it an insect on the cover?
No. 433136
File: 1727348104721.jpg (154.46 KB, 736x920, b87cdd4a18b3196ecbd1bd5bd6a77b…)
>>432164Well the room is cute, it just looks like she went to the craft store and bought out the Halloween section. I dig the purple walls, but I get the feeling she did it to see how many Instagram hits she'd get. ngl it kinda looks like Voltair's living room, kek.
No. 433141
File: 1727349938649.jpg (93.8 KB, 736x736, d874a4e63763c73dcfba5d13bf4bea…)
>>432409If she had some black things here and there, or maybe a dresser with a few dark pieces that would work. Her obsession with being über goffick and turning the house into a tar pit is OTT.
No. 433158
File: 1727355665739.jpg (139.02 KB, 600x350, 6-Cortina-Sleigh6-1179596168.j…)
If you get 100 percent black everything in your home you can't find shit when it gets lost somewhere. Dark wood is fine and ubergoff enuff.
It's also in many countries not that expensive to buy 2nd hand unless you go for a very elaborate old custom made pieces. Normies see them as "oldfashioned"/"old people's stuff" and prefer IKEA crap coz "muh nordik minimalizm so trendee und funkshyonal".
Just look for style like:
(neo)baroque
(neo)victorian
Chippendale
Biedermeier
Quin Ann
Colonial
French Provincial
Italian
Danziger
Art Deco
Art Nouveau
Or search by woods like: oak, mahogany, cherry, rosewood
No. 433231
File: 1727375206326.jpg (282.19 KB, 1200x1040, 10186767_50-1514043230.jpg)
>>433229Historic Victorian interiors were a clusterfuck of stuff - the more things in a single room the better. Modern "museums" inside historic Victorian buildings rarely do the justice to the level of clutter that was trendy back then.
No. 433462
File: 1727462593293.png (153.32 KB, 720x1226, Screenshot_20240927-192414~2.p…)
>>432288When I was a teen, my dad's friend burned a CD for me. She wrote "Darkwave" on it and I listened to it for years not knowing the actual title. I found it and its called Darkwave: Music Of The Shadows V2. The track listing has Miranda Sex Garden and Love Spirals Downwards. Maybe not all the songs are darkwave but they are definitely ethereal. I wish there were more bands doing darkwave/ethereal wave.
No. 433468
>>432288I think the problem that can lead people to be confused with ethereal wave is that you see it can be confused with dream pop and shoegaze. I think shoegaze is easy enough to not confuse too much since the basis of that genre is loud and noisy guitars with a lush background but dream pop is where I personally get confused, I've even heard people say that dream pop isn't a real genre and that most music labeled that are just ethereal or ethereal wave. And then you have the ethereal vs ethereal wave discussion, it just gets really confusing.
I mean take the band Cranes for example, I've heard some people say they are ethereal wave & goth and then others say they are dream pop and shoegaze. I've heard their song "Jewel" and that song sounds straight up ethereal wave/goth to me but then you have another song like "Everywhere" (vidrel) and I've seen people refer to that song as "goth" or "ethereal wave" as well but to my ears, it doesn't sound like that to me at all but maybe I'm missing something?
No. 433474
File: 1727464685185.jpg (82.78 KB, 640x888, a1e361be3eb75afd45898510f64a30…)
>>433229>but yet it just feels like there is a little too much going on if you know what I mean?There is too much going on. Too much in one corner, things on the wall with other random pieces. It doesn't mesh well because there's no synergy to it. She could make it work by not having it look like clutter. Spread things out and put the skeletons and other bric-a-brac in a glass cupboard, kinda like a curiosity cabinet.
No. 433489
>>433468Well, there is a problem of "what is pop". So I am not surprised that there are questions of what is so called "dreampop".
As for the song "Everywhee" synth lead is riffing in semi punky way. Later there is something that sounds like blurry synth pads with a lot of reverb. The guitar lacks distortion/overdrive or noticeable amount of reverb and line itself is genre ambiguous due to it's simplicity. Drums would fit in post punk category. So, well, it has elements of these genres but used in a very avantgarde fashion and simplicity of many parts makes end result feel (sub)genre ambiguous.
No. 433541
>>433489Right, I can understand that though to me, the way I look at "dream pop" is if the music has lush and/or "dreamy" sounding guitars but doesn't have that noisy wash of sound that usually accompanies shoegaze but also doesn't have the moody sounding goth guitar that you usually hear in goth rock. It's just that sometimes it can be easier to decipher in some music than others. Like The Sundays or Mazzy Star, pretty simple enough to hear the "dream pop" whereas in Cranes for example, it may be a little harder to decipher.depending on the song Which on what you said about "Everywhere", your analysis does make sense and what I usually classified that song as was simply just "alternative rock" with a dash of avantgarde.
>>433491Oh wow, that actually helps a lot, thanks. Great songs and I do hear genre switching.
No. 433694
>>433541Many bands did not had a goal of "sounding like your official international metric standard of gothic rock" but we kinda disputed that already and that's not exactly an answer to a question of problems with classification of any certain song.
Anyway posting a track from the UK band 1919
No. 433708
>>433669>I'm one of the few goth/alt person amongst my friend groupsYeah it would be great if we all had a goth crew, but sometimes it doesn't happen like that. Being a Millennial, there were alt kids in our circle. Only three(myself included) were goth. I know it can make you feel like the odd one out. Don't be afraid to dive into music. With music, you're not alone. Your friends are the band members and your guardian angels at the same time. There's a good number of music vids shared in this thread, choose what you like.
Despite the back and forth discussions on what constitutes this or that genre, its a useful conversation piece. Part of the goth community is discussing music. Even though people disagree, nobody is going to get cancelled for having a different opinion. It's not like today where you
have to agree with everything somebody says, or they unfriend you on socials. We used to have conversations and not everyone agreed, but at the end of the day you were still friends.
Goth today is different in so many ways. I don't see a lot of bullying or getting attacked for being goth. Maybe in small or religious towns, but nowhere what it used to be. When I was a brussel sprout in high school, even the teachers had something snarky to say about my style. One teacher told my friends mother not to let her be around me, because he was convinced I was a witch(he prolly got that from The Craft).
The stereotypes are kinda gone, nobody assumes you're a satanist if you wear black.
>Unfortunately I do use Tik tok but it was only to watch funny shit originally. My algorithm has been feeding me more "goth" content recentlyWe grew up with limited internet so DIY and social events were things we did. Yes we looked online for clothes, boots, like minded people but we were still social. TikTock is like Clueless or Mean Girls; the popular kids are now alt but act really shitty to anyone who doesn't follow
their idea of goth. It's damaging to the subculture because goth is not a popularity contest. It's a music based community. I think it's helpful if you can find elder goths to talk to. You don't have to tease you hair and wear creepers if you don't want to. But it's important to learn about the spirit of goth, because TikTok and Instagram aren't good examples, imo.
No. 433714
>>433694I understand that at least in the moment before goth rock became much more defined of a sound (the late 80s-90s), the guitar work was still there and pretty consistent for the most part. Like you could tell (well, "hear") when a lesser known band in the early-mid 80s may have taken guitar work inspiration from one of the early Cure albums or the Juju album by Siouxsie and the Banshees for example.
Also sharing some Immortal
No. 433715
>>433669It's nice to hear you had a nice time reading this thread and feel a little more connected and not put off by how this thread really does talk about the truth and reality of the goth scene which is not like what TikTok pushes. As for the friend group thing, like another anon mentioned, it is the same for me as well. I'm a millennial as well and I didn't get into actual goth until my senior year of high school, prior to that I was one of the kids who thought that nu-metal and Marilyn Manson was "goth music" (it was the early 2000s kek) but even then, there were only 3 of us dark "weirdos" in school and in reality, only one actual goth who was one of my friends that helped get me into actual goth music. I suspect that unless you lived in a place like New York City. London, or any other fairly big city, you were always going to be one of the minorities of alt people.
These days in my personal life I don't know any other goth in my area and it can be quite lonely not having to have anyone to talk about the music with so this thread has been a total refresher to get that communication even if there can be some disagreements but like other anon said, it's all good because leads to some interesting discussion and at the end of the day, it's pretty rest assured that everyone here knows what goth music mostly is.
No. 433871
>>433468I would say these are the main differences between dream pop and ethereal wave:
1. A lot of dream pop has minimalistic guitars or even prominent synth elements (Beach House or Still Corners), while ethereal wave is guitar-driven and mostly has very little synth elements. The guitars in ethereal wave sound similar to gothic rock. Sometimes ethereal wave is crossed with darkwave (Lycia, Claire Voyant), but the synths are darker and sound nothing like those in dream pop.
2. The bass is more prominent in ethereal wave, apart from some more post-punky sounding dream pop bands like Wild Nothing or DIIV, at which point it becomes a little harder to distinguish between the two.
3. Ethereal wave features the heavily-processed shrieking guitar sound of gothic rock, e.g. Lycia - Slip Away, Faith And The Muse - Sparks, Love Spirals Downwards - Mirrors a Still Sky, Autumn's Grey Solace - A Soul Ensnared. Dream pop has nothing of that sort apart from some very rare exceptions. This is not to be confused with the wall of sound guitars in shoegaze, which are usually very easy to distinguish (think My Bloody Valentine), although bands like Slowdive often come close due to being influenced by ethereal wave.
4. In dream pop the hushed vocals are very popular, and in many cases the whole sound is muffled and subdued. I don't know a single ethereal wave band with this hushed vocal style, the vocals are usually very prominent and often quite melodramatic (e.g. Lilith by Aenima or the operatic vocals of Requiem In White).
5. Expanding on the previous point, ethereal wave often features glossolalia or completely wordless singing (e.g. Dead Can Dance, Cocteau Twins, Love Spirals Downwards, Autumn's Grey Solace, a lot of Tara's vocals in Lycia) and layered vocals. Dream pop vocals are also quite often hard-to-decipher, but it's due to being lower in the mix, not because of utilizing unique vocal styles.
6. Ethereal wave is vaguely "darker" and more melancholic than dream pop, although it's too subjective to be a reliable indicator.
7. Dream pop usually has more straightforward verse/chorus song structures, while ethereal wave is often more winding.
At any rate, bands like AGS or LSD definitely share all of the above mentioned characteristics of ethereal wave, at least a decent chunk of their music. Of course, not all of their music falls under the goth umbrella, but I dare you to find a band whose discography is 100% goth, unless it's an underground band that released a demo and vanished into obscurity.
As for Cranes, I personally consider them to be more alternative rock and shoegaze rather than dream pop or ethereal wave, although the goth influence is definitely there.
No. 433887
>>433468>I've even heard people say that dream pop isn't a real genre and that most music labeled that are just ethereal or ethereal wave. This is definitely not true, dream pop is a separate genre, even though it evolved from ethereal wave. The differences are described above. Also dream pop evolved beyond its roots (Cocteau Twins) and many of the bands now labelled as dream pop have almost no post-punk elements.
>And then you have the ethereal vs ethereal wave discussion, it just gets really confusing.What discussion? Ethereal wave and ethereal are the same thing, unless you use ethereal as a generic adjective to describe the vibe of the music, in that case even black metal could be ethereal.
No. 434045
>>433871AYRT and believe me, I totally get that. I guess what I mean is that for the most part I'm usually able to tell ethereal wave vs dream pop at least 95% of the time lol. I'm actually in the middle of listening to all off Autumn's Grey Solace in chronological order and I'm 3 albums in so far and I've definitely taken more notice of their ethereal wave songs vs their dream pop sound, it's been pretty fun.
>>433887>What discussion? Ethereal wave and ethereal are the same thing, unless you use ethereal as a generic adjective to describe the vibe of the music, in that case even black metal could be ethereal.I was referring more to hearing "ethereal" was a generic adjective. I've seen some people make a distinction. But again, this came from the same people who would use that word to describe bands like Slowdive and early Lush.
No. 434206
File: 1727646524167.jpg (1.16 MB, 1081x1441, Fake-vs-Real.jpg)
>>433455>Don't forget Shein and Aliexpress lol. I won't lie, I have bought a few things from them (except Killstar) but it's usually just accessories.I've found 2 Shein items second hand and chopped them up for sewing. A large lace top is cheaper than buying it at the fabric store. Thrift shops usually sell Shein for cheap, so I don't feel bad for attacking it with a pair of scissors. I bought a fake leather corset second hand and I'm using the lace Shein top to sew over it. That's my exception when it comes to those brands.
>zoomers tend to over accessorize their looks with said shill companies which only adds more of that "fakeness" vibe to their store-bought costumeYeah I think the difference between Zoomers accessorizing and 80s-90s goths was the type of jewelry and clothing. Zoomers buy the Goth Halloween Package of cheap fabric, cheap jewelry and cheap shoes. It literally looks like a costume. If 80s goth had cheap jewelry you didn't really notice because they mixed it with real jewelry(rosaries or chains and the odd family heirloom). Or it was the way they styled it. There's a contrast between buying black resin Rogue+Wolf jewelry or buying metal/silver/pewter jewelry that looks old.
No. 435960
>>435921Virgin Prunes - "Baby Turns Blue"
Acid Bats - "Possession"
Zezaree - "Infierno Negro"
The Wake - "Masked
Ghosting - "Lion King"
The Hearse - "We bleed black"
Switchblade Symphony - "Clown"
Curses - "Miriam"
No. 436142
>>435921Lycia - Monday Is Here
Rites Of Sin - The Vanishing
This Cold Night - Black Cathedral
She Past Away - Ruh
Witching Hour - Lygia
Twin Tribes - Shadows
No. 436291
File: 1728517849168.jpeg (5.96 KB, 168x300, images (3).jpeg)
I hate that this is what zoomers call "trad goth". If anything it is more reminicent of the 2010s deathrock revival revival. It just doesn't reassemble 80s goth makeup at all. I want to see more looks with lots of blush, blue eyeshadow,
yellow eyeshadow, anything but black lipstick, and just less ugly contouring in general. I know
>>435787 had a similar complaint. But the white foundation, graphic eyeliner, black contour, and black lipstick look is so boring and it's cartoonish in a lot of instances. And I hate the huge drag influence that a lot of zoomers have. I was really into drag in high school and college too, but every zoomer goth girl draws her lips on retardedly big now and I hate it.
I hate all those stupid sub labels like vampire goth, hippie goth, romantic goth, etc anyway because it's retarded. I feel like it's really limiting when zoomers pick one of these sublabels and then pigeonhole themselves to that label.
No. 436337
>>436291I don't mind the white foundation. What I have a problem with is lack of creativity in what is being done with eyeliner and shadows. You can every few years walk into groups of people with pretty much identical look.
>>436296Nah, not even Lapland natives can reach ghastly white tone that Kryolan Clown White can give you. And reactions of normies seeing you around midnight and later in night are priceless.
No. 436818
>>436794Goth is a noun, gothic is adjective.
Both terms were used by goths as a self identification in the '80s UK scene which was recorded on film tape in interviews from back then that you can see on youtube.
Goth metal does not belong to gothic rock basket but some bands were influenced by gothic rock vocals and/or riffs. Butt here are also gothic metal bands that are lacking these influences.
As of Black Metal Scandinavian scene of the early '90s were influenced visually by similar horror themed motives as the UK scene. Black Metal itself in crushing majority of bands has no influences of gothic rock. Darkthrone did a cover of Siouxie and the Banshees "Love in Void" and Carpathian Forest did a cover of The Cure "A Forest". Varg Vikernes mentioned to be a The Cure fan. But generally it's hard to hear any easily identifiable influences of goth rock in general black metal. They may pop out in single tracks by some bands but that's not widespread thing in that genre.
No. 437026
>>436291I hear you anon. I used to think that this kinda makeup was cool like 3-4 years ago but unfortunately you see this same makeup look so frequently these days that it's just boring to look at now. I also agree that it doesn't even look like actual 80s goth makeup, it looks more like a mix of deathrock revival + drag queen makeup and yes, I know that drag-like makeup was a thing in the 80s with the New Romantic look but still, I don't think it was done so "perfect" for lack of better word like what you see these days. Vidrel but I honestly much prefer how the makeup looked back in the 80s where it wasn't so perfectly sharp and crisp and in the case of the video, they didn't go too overboard with it. And I'm with you, I'm so over the exaggerated overdrawn lips, it just looks tacky.
>I hate all those stupid sub labels like vampire goth, hippie goth, romantic goth, etc anyway because it's retarded. I feel like it's really limiting when zoomers pick one of these sublabels and then pigeonhole themselves to that label.I honestly didn't mind when it was just "goth", "romantic goth", and "deathrock" to describe the looks. All this other crap like "Mallgoth", "Cybergoth", "Hippie Goth", etc Most of them aren't even actual goth styles (cybergoth & mallgoth) and I agree that all it did was muddle things to where it defines your whole personality and interests which is just ridiculous.
>>436862I used to wear chokers a lot when I was younger but I've not worn them much in recent years because of that feeling of it being tight. I used to not mind back then but now I do and I just stick with my necklaces instead lol.
No. 437164
>>437061it doesn't make you feel like your choking?
I know i'm a little fucked up about this. I can't even wear a loose necklace and often I will tug on my shirt collar, even though it's loose and not even touching my throat.
But just seeing someone else wearing a choker gives me a constricted feeling in my own throat
No. 437335
I've been taking my time trying to watch this video but I'm so over this stupid tired argument that the goth scene is racist and excludes melanin racial minorities when that isn't true. I'm aware that there may be some people within the goth scene that hold racist views and say ignorant shit like black people can't be goth because they're skin is too dark but that mentality does not define the subculture as a whole and I think the overall majority of people in the scene do not hold such views. As for the reason why goth tended to look white is because of it's background being started in the UK where the majority of people living there were caucasian in the 1980s and I don't believe they set out to make goth be exclusionary and turn their nose up at darker skinned people, at least not the majority.
And this idea that racial minority goths don't get as much attention as caucasian goths is a bit silly since at least with YouTube for example, there really aren't many actual black goth creators to begin with. And I'm talking black people who actually listen to and talk about goth music and not "instagoths" who listen to metal, pop punk, and rap music. I'm thinking of people like Rose Nocturnalia, Mori Darkmoss, Kai Decadence, ad GothicSoulFlower as these were black youtubers who also listened to and openly talked about goth music. But Rose Nocturnalia & Mori Darkmoss disappeared off the YouTube sphere, Kai Decadence is considered transphobic and since a lot of goths are TRAs, they won't watch him and Gothic SoulFlower hasn't been active in years which contributes at least to the YT side why black goths don't get as much attention but ignoring It's Black Friday and Angela Benedict, I'd say most goth YouTubers don't get popular in general since our scene is still niche at the end of the day.
And as far as other social media like Instagram and TikTok, there are black instagoths who get large followings but sometimes accuse the scene of being gatekept but it's not because they're black, it's because it's very clear that they don't like or listen to the music and get pissed when they are told metal and soundcloud rap aren't goth music.
And this goes to the bands as well. There just aren't many black people making goth music but the few that are, they to be well received. I remember when O Children came around and a lot of us ate them up because they were so good. Same with another band called Scary Black. So it's not that goth bands with black musicians are gatekept out, it's just that there just aren't many black musicians playing the music to begin with which contributes to lack of features. And the video creator literally pulls the same BS that understandably those in the goth scene will not consider "goth" by trying to promote non-goth music and that's the annoying thing with these people, they throw a fit when a scene is centered around a certain kind of music and when they try to push music that is not the genre into it and it's met with opposition, they scream "racist". Like the Algiers band she mentioned, they do have a really enjoyable unique sound but it's not goth music so it shouldn't be surprising that they didn't get picked up into the goth scene sphere and that their lack of breakout success wasn't because "gOtH rAcIsM", it was because they were playing a super niche style since general post-punk isn't a mainstream genre. And she brings up Light Asylum who aren't goth neither and are straight up electronic synth pop music. I don't understand why she didn't just feature actual goth bands with black musicians because while few, they do exist.
And because she kept going on and on about her own music, I decided to check it out and ignoring all the gendie crap because she's a moron who thinks she's not a woman, her music is not goth neither and it's mostly just electronic and rap music so of course she's gonna whine about goth being "gatekeepy" because it doesn't accept and embrace rap style music as a goth subgenre.
Here's her music for anyone curious.
https://shonalika.bandcamp.com/music No. 437382
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>>437355If you have basic black clothing, you can use more accessories to look fancy. For me, lace makes a plain outfit fancy. Or wearing nicer jewelry instead of studs. I wear a lot of rings and silver bracelets. That makes me feel fancy.
No. 437390
>>437335Light Asylum been a popular part of playlists at goth dance events for years now in Europe, at least in Germany and Poland. Even the most die hard tradgoff circles there like to incorporate synth pop stuff in playlists at such events.
>>437039Majority of people I know from goth events have at least one studded collar in their wardrobe. Some with subtle studs, some with large ones.
>>437355Get yourself some interesting looking belts if you are into belts. Could be whatever you like - studded, embossed, plain with some big buckle, western style, some historic styles, whatever you fancy.
Jewellery is also quick way to goff up your look. Not necessary from goff brands. Plain stainless steel is OK as well as silver, brass, gold or whatever you fancy. Yes, brass/bronze jewellery is goff too. You don't have to wear skulls and bats or spiders only. Plain pieces of metal or some small (or big if you like) stones are fine too.
Boots/shoes - do not limit yourself to buying only alternative brands. Look for more formal brands or go for folk ethnic styles. Look up dozens of posts up in this thread there are many ideas for boots/shoes.
Laces - could be plain, could be some fancy patterns.
You may also look into leather - corsets, skirts (leather skirt is '80s staple), driving gloves, long gloves going over elbow etc.
Remember that natural fabrics like cotton, linen could be dyed black.
Also leather items from boots to jackets could be dyed black too (you have to strip outer protective layer first and then apply die and protective finish). You can repair old leather stuff too that way.
No. 437391
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>>437390>Get yourself some interesting looking belts if you are into belts.
>Jewellery is also quick way to goff up your look. Not necessary from goff brands.
>You may also look into leather - corsets, skirts (…)long gloves going over elbow etc.Picrel is an example of anon's suggestions. Jewellery, belts, corsets, leather. I would describe their style as being fancy or dressed up.
No. 437393
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>>437391Continued. Same couple without the corsets(you don't have to wear one if you don't like them). Jewellery really dresses up the outfits and changes the look from basic black to fancy.
No. 437442
>>437353Right, I meant featuring some of these bands/musicians when she put a spotlight on some bands to promote.
>>437390>Light Asylum been a popular part of playlists at goth dance events for years now in Europe, at least in Germany and Poland. Even the most die hard tradgoff circles there like to incorporate synth pop stuff in playlists at such events.Yeah and? So are Depeche Mode and they are not a goth band neither lol. Light Asylum are an awesome modern synth pop & synthwave band but I don't understand why it's so hard for some people to understand that A), you can be a goth and like non-goth music and B), just because a non-goth band is popular with goths doesn't make them goth music by association.
And since you're on the topic, what have you observed in your local scene? Have you seen any goths at your local events being rude or giving microaggressions to non-white people at them?
No. 437469
>>437442>Yeah and?Nothing in particular. Just shared a random fact from the scene(s).
>Have you seen any goths at your local events being rude or giving microaggressions to non-white people at them?I was not a witness of any such behavior and never heard of any such stories.
No. 437720
>>437469>Nothing in particular. Just shared a random fact from the scene(s).Oh okay, fair lol.
>I was not a witness of any such behavior and never heard of any such stories.See, it's the same on my end too and I live in a place that's pretty diverse. I feel like this "racist" accusation goth is being accused of is more an online thing and even then, it's more than likely trolls because for the most part, most online goths would call that out. I'm sure some here may remember the Dolls Kill controversy with their "goth is white" slogan (nevermind that Dolls Kill is not a "goth" brand) and how online goths spoke out against the slogan.
Honestly I think the woman in the video is projecting her own hardships trying to get gigs in goth spaces and thinks it's because of racism when it really is because the music she makes is not goth and the venues know that the overall majority of attendees do not want to hear rap music in their space.
No. 437730
>>437720She started from claim that goth is not music based then presented some pre existing online claims then semi defended some aspects of fashion then most of her monologue drifted away from goth itself to broader social issues with some mentions of not goth music in between.
As for rap I find it interesting how early punk and rap (around 2nd half of the '70s) shared some aspects of culture like graffiti and even fashion as you could find examples of early rapers wearing studded leather stuff (leather jackets of early rapers were influence of funk music stars), diy belts etc - general DIY creativity approach to both music and look.
Their musical genealogy of course differed.
After fall of communism in Poland rap artists kinda replaced punk rockers as main alternative popular counterculture music performers. Some Polish punks remembering the '80s claimed that punk lost it's point in the '90s Poland as punks had nothing left to say therefore it get replaced by rapers.
Why I'm mentioning this? Well, just another story to share mainly but also I feel like it's a curious parallel/complementary quality between both genres.
No. 438387
>>437730Sorry for the late response anon. I understand that rap music also comes from a DIY and creative foundation but at the end of the day, they are still separate scenes and I think she's being silly if she expects goth clubs to start adding rap music to their DJ sets. Most of us already have to hear rap and rap adjacent sounding stuff in mainstream places and the goth clubs gives us a nice break from that stuff.
Interesting to learn about that about Poland.
No. 439039
>>439034Bonus vid, here's a young "man" transforming from a trad look. It's funny that she says that this look is casual but it takes her like an hour to four hours. Hon if you takes you that long, that is not a "casual" look. Again I get it, she's 18 and more than likely fresh out of high school and about to step into the real world and that as teenagers, we have a lot more time to do things like this, it's just silly to think about with an older mindset and I'm sure she'll feel the same when she gets older.
I took a snoop at her IG and I will say I think some of her looks look pretty nice outfit wise. The makeup is very Pinterest but her outfits look okay and it does seem like at least she likes some goth music.
No. 439241
>>439034From pink Barbie to goth Barbie. That's the Instagoth look, tho. No musical inspiration. Even if they did Siouxie eyeliner, I wouldn't complain because at least there would be a subculture reference. The makeup was okay, but like I said: Instagoth look. It came out generic imo. Killstar dress, Dark In Closet corset. Maybe something from Shein thrown in. I wish the people wanting to do this could ask us
before they upload the video. It's fine if they want to highlight our subculture. The problem is they always display goth like a fashion statement.
No. 439298
>>439241I totally get that. My issue with ALL these transformation videos is how they never play goth music in them. It's always generic sounding hip-hop or generic pop punk sounding stuff, never anything that sounds like goth rock. Like fine do the uninteresting transformation but at least play the music to accompany it and up the music-center of the subculture.
Alos the "goth" sister, I think she's a model for Killstar so it's not surprising there and it's why I suspect she's simply just an "instagoth". Because even when people like this say that goth is a music-based scene, I notice how they leave it there with all the vagueness and no explanation (even if brief) of what that music is. Even if it was name dropping the same old 3 of The Cure, Bauhaus, and Siouxsie And the Banshees or Sisters of Mercy, at least it's something to give a general idea.
No. 439342
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>>439298>Alos the "goth" sister, I think she's a model for KillstarI didn't know that but it def explains her stenciled look. Perfect hair, perfect makeup. The girl actually looked prettier in goth clothing, but it was like they were putting on a costume. Makes me think of those paper dolls I had when I was a kid. Tbh I like SOM. And yeah even if they brought up The Cure it would let people know this is a music scene, not a fashion show.
>>439039>Genderspecial teenager>My pronouns are he/themUhhhh… where? She wore girls clothing and makeup.
Says her look is Trad goth. Doesn't explain what that is or the music associated with it. She claims her look is casual. For me, casual is a black t-shirt and jeans or leggings. Eyeliner. Choker. Boots. Not 4 hours in front of the mirror. The goth to normie challenge is the same across the board. Blonde Karen wig, grandma dress and shoes that don't go with it. If she left her hair black, she could still go with basic normie. It's not like she had piercings and face tats. At least her bf said he loved her no matter what she wore. I wish they would focus more on explaining the music side of goth instead of the "edgy" clothing.
No. 439381
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No. 439384
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No. 439385
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No. 439440
>>439342>Paper Doll Haha I see that. And yeah I scoped her Instagram and came across some of her promos for Killstar clothing and on her TikTok with her posts involving music, none of what was goth music so I just put two and two together honestly lol.
And yeah, SOM is great and even if they and The Cure are mentioned so often, it at least gives an idea of what the music is (just please no Depeche Mode lol)
>Second VideoYeah, even scoping her TikTok, she wears hyper feminine clothing that emphasize her breasts and or short skirt, I don't believe in gendie crap of any kind but come on, is she fucking serious? kek. And yeah, her look isn't casual, it's still very much a club look. Casual would mean something more comfortable like what you suggested with minimal makeup.
And yeah, it would be cool if they would take at least a minute talking about the music while they're int the middle of the transformation, maybe share what some of their first goth bands were and/or sharing some faves. It doesn't have to be long or anything but just something to give some attention to the music.
>>439353I understand it's about shock value but I mean would it kill them to at least play a goth song or two during the transformation and/or reveal? I remember in the TV show Snog, Marry, Avoid, there were two goths that were featured (separate episodes) where in one, they played Joy Division's "Love Will Tear Us Apart" and in the other, they played The Cure's "Love Song" (or "Just like Heaven", can't remember).