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No. 86957
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>>86956Also OP here; Anything punk is fine too, just please don't post emo, scene or metal, thank you.
No. 86959
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>>86958I've loved MaryGraceFrancone's makeup lately, I don't know who she is but she's shown up on my instagram explore page a lot recently. She's pretty young but takes a lot of trad influence and looks great.
No. 86961
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xbatprincesskittyx and battybooty are pretty awesome, they're a bit different to the usual looks you see on social media and they're not scared of colour. Like so many people feel like you can't wear colour with goth makeup despite all the original punk, new romantic, deathrock etc looks being full of colour as well as black liner. I'm old as fuck so when I was a teenager I had black, blue and purple eyeliner and red lipstick I used all over my face because my only eyeshadow was black and I had the option of like one brush so straight lines were only available via liner and blush via lipstick.
No. 86982
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Does anyone wear bone jewellery? Or make your own jewellery? I'm trying to make more than just nose chains and necklaces but I'm not too good at it. I have the ideas but not the ability to realise those ideas, and bone jewellery. If anyone has advice that'd be awesome. Posting with inspo just 'cause.
No. 87055
>>87003That really sucks that you lost such sentimental jewellery, I'm sorry to hear that. I have my wisdoms sitting in a little antique ivory box (cliche I know) and have been meaning to do something with them like turning them in to drop earrings, I don't want to loose the root as it's big and gnarly and pretty but I love the idea of a ring so I may look in to getting even some of those porcelain ones you buy in strips.
>>86982Bones are great when they're found and not acquired a la Joji Grey, I know the beach here has a lot of them and a friend just makes his jewellery from chicken bones, like from his food. Dries them out, coats them in clear nail polish or varnish and chains them together.
No. 87260
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Most of the activity seems to be instagram these days. There's a small crowd on Vampirefreaks still who are pretty close knit but that's been taken over by scene kids and Taylor Swift fans from Bangladesh. Don't see much on twitter, searched through the tags and it's all a bit bland. Anyone have any favourite social medias or forums for goth related music, art etc? I'm always looking for somewhere new.
No. 87670
>>87249>>87260There was the 30 second goth and punk accounts on twitter, but the punk one hasn't been posted in a long time and it looks like the owner of the goth one called it quits.
In Depth Music is a good account. They're on youtube and post a lot of underrated stuff.
No. 88471
>>86982when they took out my wisdom teeth, they let me have them and I turned mine into earrings by just wrapping some wire around them and then attaching them to hooks.
i like it when people ask me 'are those…teeth?' and i can flippantly respond, 'yes, i grew them myself.'
No. 89563
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How do you guys get the confidence to go to goth clubs? I really want to be able to meet other goths and make friends but I don't have any goth friends to go with and wouldn't know how to just go up and talk to random people alone.
No. 103839
>>103823It's never been more accessible, even normie shops atm are pretty goth friendly. You can be goth just by wearing basic ass clothes with a little styling, you don't need to go full batcave immediately.
I recommend starting a mood board of things you personally like though,deciding first on things you already know you like the look of so you can start there and expand
Start getting into the habit of checking Facebook etc for gigs and events in reachable distances
No. 103949
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>>103823I have already posted this in another thread, but I live in bumfuck nowhere in Siberia.
I just own a lot of basic black clothes, a couple statement pieces I ordered online (boots and coffin handbag) and a ton of cheap jewellry from aliexpress.
You can elevate the look by doing your hair and makeup really outlandishly. I chose not to because I have a buzzcut and unable tio do even simplest makeup on myself.
For makeup can I also recommend NYX? They're drugstore as far as I remember and they have black/purple/green lispsticks and singles of eyeshadows that are actually pretty good and affordable.
There are also a couple of goth storefronts on Aliexpress like Rosetic and Punk Rave, which can be pricy, but it's cheaper than Killstar. Killstar I would recommend if you know you're gonna buy more than 200$ of clothing/apparel because then they have free shiping.
In terms of a scene, unless you live in Europe or a prominent USA city the scene is dead. We had two goth nights in a year and the Halloween has died this year and the cover party died a couple of years ago. All we have for a "scene" is piercing and tattoo shops, but you can't exactly hang out there.
Most goth is online nowadays sadly.
No. 103963
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I'm saving my pennies for these Fluevog boots.
No. 103964
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>>103963But first I'm getting a pair of these.
Docs never fit me, whereas I have never needed to break in a pair of Fluevogs. And they last
decades.
No. 267914
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I love Xmal Deutschland. Finally their album Viva is avaiable on Spotify.
No. 268216
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I've recently been getting into what I call 'Goth Club' music but don't actually know if there's one coherent genre of it, I guess its more just edgy EDM. I am a pretentious punkfag first and foremost and sadly can't get into traditional goth, I don't like slow songs. My favourite bands at the moment are Crass, Cutters, Ceremony, DIRT, and Otoboke Beaver. I love 'alternative' (I kind of hate what the term alt has become) fashion in general and my personal style just an amalgamation of whatever the fuck I like. I love this girl's outfit in pickle so much
>>268202Ahhh nona i'm in a similar situation, I have no idea how to make punk and goth friends! I have one skinhead friend but it's not like there's a huge abundance of shows we could go to, or if there are, i'm not being told because i'm not in my local scene at all.. sigh. One day nona
No. 268224
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>>267912Yes, I did mean this thread, thanks
nonnie!
I wish I had the facial structure and confidence to pull off makeup looks like Siouxies, I keep it quite simple normally.
No. 268738
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>>268689Nona thank you! I just gave both bands a listen and I actually really like both! Especially She Past Away, I was surprised to find that they were a contemporary band… I just might be forced to look into other goth bands along the faster-tempo lines so i can make a playlist
No. 271394
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We've been living a lie, there's no such a thing as goth music, goth has nothing to do with musical taste, I'm even tempted to say it has nothing to do with art or culture either, it's possibly unrelated to an aesthetic too. We might as well declare that goth is whoever identifies as goth, because goth is an abstract concept and we don't want to gatekeep goth, gatekeeping is bad, everyone should call themselves whatever they fancy. There's nothing wrong with that! Are we afraid goth goes mainstream and becomes one of many labels to describe a vague fashion style, a category in a porn site or any other thing? Of course not! Goth is whatever you make of it, it has always been like that. Did goth start somewhere in particular around a certain decade? Of course not, goth has no history whatsoever. Let's fully embrace goth but only as a label in this year of our lord 2022, there's no reason to argue goth stood for anything in particular before, specially nowdays under the globalist capitalist system, because goth was never counterculture to begin with, so we're alright using it as an empty label.
No. 271493
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I might be retarded but did this anon imply that pastel/victorian/etc goth are also music subcultures?
No. 271514
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>>271493I think she's talking about the aesthetic, how there are different fashion styles for it, not only the traditional mostly black look. I don't think pastel has nothing to do with goth, really. And lolita, if anything, it's a particular subculture of its own. I doubt you can incorporate lolita fashion into the goth subculture, ''gothic lolita'' is something probably more related to victorian fashion and visual kei.
I really want to discuss this topic here: is goth intrinsecally linked to DIY, thrifting and low budget fashion? I certainly think so.
No. 271517
>>271514>I don't think pastel has nothing to do with gothSorry, that double negation throws me off. Was it a mistake and you really meant "I don't think pastel has
anything to do with goth" or did you actually mean it to be like "I don't think pastel is inherently incompatible with goth"?
No. 271519
>>271514I was a bit confused initially, because it was a response to someone talking about the music.
Anyway, I think DIY is a very admirable part of the culture, but I wouldn't rag on someone for wearing non-diy'd outfits if they are active in the music scene. Some just don't have the creativity or time.
No. 271539
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>>271517Yeah, I meant ''I don't think pastel has anything to do with goth''.
>>271519I agree that nobody has the time, but I believe that even buying clothes there's a difference between buying black basics made out of cotton and denim, and buying a killstar piece with alchemy symbols and pentagrams made of polyester. That's why I believe thrifting is the best choice, it usually takes as much time as buying clothes in regular shops.
No. 271621
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>>271539>>271539killstar is also dogshit quality. the moment they featured an mgk collection i didn't even want to own any of the few killstar items i bought over the years. i go to disturbia for sweats because they're really comfy and actually stay soft. my going outside clothes definitely reflect that diy vibe, thrifted clothes are way better quality and last longer than the "new season new looks" from fast fashion shops. i get more compliments and spend less money thrifting. estate sales are also good places to look for things like jewelry or household items.
No. 272008
>>268690Did you knew guys Nina is a
TERF?, Amazing rigth. We stan with this queen.
No. 272015
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>>103963Thanks 3 years ago flue-nonna now I need these picrel
>>271514I think it is nonna. Not sure if biased because thats how I grew up and built my own wardrobe but I really do miss seeing more thrifted and DIY. While I can be guilty of buying some fast fashion pieces and even a killstar knockoff/from the manu for cheaper bag I long to return to thrifting and altering clothes on my old shitty sewing machine. I refuse to support killstar and dollskill type shops and do look down a bit on those who buy their whole wardrobe from such places but then again I also still have a pair of TRIPP NYC bondage pants and a cyberdog skirt around here somewhere from many moons ago so guess I am a bit of a hypocrite. Would not shop at either these days though. Some of my most favorite and most worn pieces are DIY and/or thrifted normiefag items that just need the right styling. I do understand not everyone is creative and into DIY and as long as they are just exploiting the aesthetic for moid attention or to try and ruin our few remaining spaces they can stay.
My music taste is hard stuck in the past like 80s and then when VF was actually about goth kek anyone have any newer goth music recs? Bonus points if they still tour.
No. 272055
>>271483I'm an older zoomer and it's like that with a few of my peers. They think it's just a fashion trend bc of the tiktok trendhoppers who abuse #goth (and she/they troons, for some reason), or that there is goth music but it's all shitty soundcloud, or that it's a fetish bc of the stupid goth gf/bf memes.
And sadly they're half right, bc some people are trying to turn it into this bc theyre desperate for the coolness of the label but dont care about the subculture, and so cry g-gatekeeper and o-oldhead to dismiss people who mention what the subculture is about. But they don't realise that manufacturing being alt makes you the opposite of alt.
No. 272058
>>272015I would like music recommendations too (that actually tour so I can go out to a concert kek). I'm stuck in the 90s myself, I liked the ethereal, dark wave, and goth rock sound of the 90s and haven't found many if any bands similar to that.
The most modern band that I like is Angels of Liberty.
No. 272068
>>272058>>272065Rosegarden Funeral Party
Vandalmoon
Horror Vacui
Molchat Doma
Boy Harsher
Lebanon Hanover
Please keep adding nonnas!
No. 272069
>>272008Wait is she really?? I didn't know this. Like does she not believe in transgenderism as a whole?
Either way if this is true, I love her even more lol.
No. 272071
>>272068They Die
Twin Tribes
Neila Invo
She Past Away
Velvet Mist
Midnight Passage
No. 272072
>>272070The kids who need a label for every made up mental illness and personality trait are the same who will turn around and say I won't be limited to labels and music has nothing to do with fashions of music based subcultures. >sToP pUtTiNg Me In A bOx
top kek
No. 272074
>>272072KEK that is so true. But you know this reminds me of the mid 2000s with the "Emo Kids" of MySpace and VampireFreaks. I'm sue there are some others in this thread who remembers those people who would say that they didn't believe in labels yet when you look at them, they were decked out in the most stereotypical Emo/Scene kid fashion and liked the music that was popualar in those scenes lol.
I mean at the very least they were listening to the music compared to today where these same kinds of people don't even listen to the music they're claiming to be but it's just funny, especially with how things have changed and gotten much shallower when it comes to this "Don't label me" mentality.
No. 272080
>>272073I also wonder if the whole "I don't need to prove my knowledge of x genre I dress like" is also some bleed over from con culture where the SJWs kept telling people you can't expect kids to know the source of their cosplay and it's bullying. Hell same with just "geek culture" in general which was a niche before it was exploited for simp bucks. Starting to sense a theme here nonnas.
>>272074100% nonna I feel like those kids would also be the ones who tag their insta posts with all the trendy tags and when it's pointed out they don't belong they would cry "I don't fit into any label but I do it to get seen you oldhead gatekeepers"
These kids and sometimes overgrown kids just can't make it make sense
No. 272083
>>272073I'm a huge NIN fan and I regularly search for used band shirts that won't cost a fortune, because I love wearing band shirts. What I've stumbled upon was a rapper wearing old NIN shirts and sometimes other famous people I've never heard of. That doesn't mean they don't listen to said band, but I assume that fans of their music will see them wear those shirts, buy them and not even know what music that band makes.
It's okay if you like the artwork on some band shirts, honestly, it made me listen to bands I would never have considered before, but to wear something you don't know anything about is so not what I would do. For example, I'm loving the California album from Blink 182, I don't like their stuff before that, now I'm not sure if I should get a shirt from that album or just leave it be, because I was not so into them before that time.
But maybe we are just overthinking all that and we should just wear what fits our aesthetic, I don't know, guess it wouldn't work for me as I had to fight for every damn goth piece in my closet while I was younger. I don't know, maybe I'm too old to understand zoomers, for me being goth meant something, it was a way a living, it was a whole feeling, it wasn't just some stupid clothes.
No. 272086
>>272080>I also wonder if the whole "I don't need to prove my knowledge of x genre I dress like" is also some bleed over from con culture where the SJWs kept telling people you can't expect kids to know the source of their cosplay and it's bullying. Hell same with just "geek culture" in general which was a niche before it was exploited for simp bucks. Starting to sense a theme here nonnas.You know I think you may be onto something there. I can't say that I was huge into geek culture, I never really went to cons and I only liked a handful of anime back in the 2000s. I was more into video games but even then, not hardcore into it but I do remember the days when being into that stuff was not popular and you'd be teased or bullied for it compared to now where it's so popular and you don't get bullied as much for it compared to the 90s and early 2000s.
Perhaps it is a bleed over from con culture with people who dressed up as anime or movie characters while not knowing who the character was and now we're seeing that seep into music-related subculture which again were slightly stigmatized back in the day where people would get mocked or bullied for liking Metal, Goth, Emo, etc music. The people who call themselves these things now while not having a clue about the music are the people who would've bullied said people if it was still seen as socially unacceptable.
No. 272088
>>272083>But maybe we are just overthinking all that and we should just wear what fits our aestheticMy partner who is a fellow millennial but never allowed to dress like the metalhead he is tells me I should just not care that the zoomers just wear what makes them happy and while I agree if they call themselves goth then I get a bit rustled and I can't seem to help feeling that way.
While I definitely am a long time goth I do sometimes where other fashions but definitely never considered myself a lifestyle lolita or anything so am I maybe a hypocrite idk. I do only wear gothic lolita though am not one of those pink kawaii by day goth by night tropes.
No. 272089
>>272083>I'm a huge NIN fan and I regularly search for used band shirts that won't cost a fortune, because I love wearing band shirts. What I've stumbled upon was a rapper wearing old NIN shirts and sometimes other famous people I've never heard of. That doesn't mean they don't listen to said band, but I assume that fans of their music will see them wear those shirts, buy them and not even know what music that band makes. Right I feel like this became more of a trend when celebrities like Kim Kardashian and Justin Bieber were starting to wear band shirts like Metallica, Guns N Roses, and Iron Maiden. Their young zoomer fans and "zillenials" wanted to imitate their idols by dressing like them and thinking that those band shirts were brand clothing, mainly because these celebrities never talked about the music they were posing with like you know, Kim Kardashian being asked what her favorite Metallica song was.
>It's okay if you like the artwork on some band shirts, honestly, it made me listen to bands I would never have considered before, but to wear something you don't know anything about is so not what I would do. For example, I'm loving the California album from Blink 182, I don't like their stuff before that, now I'm not sure if I should get a shirt from that album or just leave it be, because I was not so into them before that time.I get liking a band shirt design, I think a lot of metal bad tees have some pretty cool designs on them but I guess I'm just old school where I'd feel more comfortable wearing band merch of bands that I know and listen to. I don't think you have to know everything about the band but at the very least, at least know a few songs even if it's just their well-known hits. Like for example you liking Blink's California album, I think it's totally fair for you to wear that shirt because you genuinely like the album. So what if you didn't like their previous work, you found some of their music that you do enjoy and that's totally
valid and if you explain that to people who question you on it, if they're chill they'll accept that.
>But maybe we are just overthinking all that and we should just wear what fits our aesthetic, I don't know, guess it wouldn't work for me as I had to fight for every damn goth piece in my closet while I was younger. I don't know, maybe I'm too old to understand zoomers, for me being goth meant something, it was a way a living, it was a whole feeling, it wasn't just some stupid clothes.I don't think it's overthinking at all. Music is a big deal for a lot of us and it's
valid, music helps bring people together and the fact that there are still people interested in these niche music genres like Goth rock, Deathrock, Post-Hardcore, and Psychedelic Rock to name a few shows how transcendent music can be in peoples' lives and that's why it's so sad to see the next generation take such a shallow approach and mindset to these once rich niche subcultures that brought us outcasts (lol) together.
No. 272102
>>272090>These aren't inherently goth (more mall stuff you'd see in Hot Topic)I'd say that none of it is goth period. Something I noticed with a lot of these "got" clothing brands is how they don't even carry any goth band merchandise, not even the more well known ones like The Cure or SOM. So I never thought of brands like Killstar, DollsKill, BlackCraft, etc as "goth" brands, just dark alternative clothing brands at bst and stuff for angsty edgelords at worst.
I do get what you mean though, I remember Emily the Strange merch specifically costing at the most, $30 for like a messenger bag while everything else of her was reasonably priced. I do get Tripp because even back in the late 90s they were on the pricier side and same with Lip Service depending on what the item was.
>How do these e-girls and zoomers afford $250 shirts?That's a good question. My guess is that they use the money they make doing their streaming by putting away some funds towards expensive clothing? That or they get gifted it.
No. 272116
>>272070Ayrt. About emo and soundcloud rap, reminds me of Machine gun Kelly's song emo girl. He couldn't describe the girl past her looks and that she only loves trap songs. About tiktok, yeah though I like the diversity of aesthetics it has, it's social media so it can be quite pigeon hole-y like people thinking they can only be one aesthetic at a time, and shallow like wearing whatever gets Likes and insisting subcultures are just about clothes. I have no problem with people who know they just like goth clothes and not the subculture. I have a problem with when people insist on squeezing into labels they happen not to fit. Just be yourself and then use labels to describe that.
But for some reason a lot of gen z collects labels like stickers, warping existing ones to fit them like with goth, and making up labels like with turning personality traits into genders (and there's an overlap with gendies and dressing alt). All while claiming to totally be themselves and so progressive.
>>272072 Yep all of this.
They're even resorting to things like "what about deaf people? They can't hear the music, so can they not be goth, you ableist? Gotcha!! Anyone and anything is goth!!" But of course deaf people are exempt you idiot.
>>272090How do these e-girls and zoomers afford $250 shirts
Sponsorships? I've had scam sponsorship DMs from fake alt brands, makes me think legit ones are common for scammers to be doing it too
>>272083>I had to fight for every damn goth piece in my closet while I was younger. I don't know, maybe I'm too old to understand zoomers, for me being goth meant somethingNot all of us are shallow, I've met fellow goth zoomers who like the music. But naturally the shallow ones are the most vocal/visible. I've had to fight for my clothes too, conservative religiousnparents you know the deal, and one of the only positives I can say about such stifling parenting is I value my self expression more.
No. 272203
>>272147I like that sort of clothing too, as I’m still darkly inclined and it’s good for casual wear. But at least in the US I have seen those shirts go for hundreds of dollars, and it kinda sucks because just years ago before this “mall goth” trend got popular, this stuff was under $10. I wonder if the trend will ever die down. Is has to, right? Soon they’ll be clinging onto some other time period.
It’s funny because I’ll see even plain polyester velvet stuff marketed as “Goth” on Depop for $70+ dollars, but literally all you have to do is buy from a normal store, thrift it, or even just go on eBay to get something similar (or even exact) much cheaper..
No. 272276
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Am I alone in thinking that whenever you hear someone who claims to be goth get asked what goth bands they enjoy and/or like and they respond with that they like all kinds of music and then don't answer are just signaling that they don't actually listen to goth music?
I feel a bit snobby thinking this way but I can't but feel like this kind of answer to a simple question is a subtle way of them admitting that they don't actually listen to the music. I get that it can be hard to choose favorites in a music genre but if you can't even name drop at least a few bands that you enjoy, it just leads me to suspect something is up. I think the reason why I feel this way is because I saw so many of those Killstar goffs, the ones who spend hundreds of Killstar and do hauls about it tended to always use that excuse of a non-answer whenever they were asked about what goth bands they liked.
No. 272313
>>272276Back when I started we had a store called XtraX and I know that people reacted to others wearing clothes bought their the same as towards people buying Killstar and co. today. Honestly, I like two or three things that Killstar sells, still wouldn't buy it, because I can make it myself in better quality or buy somewhere else for far less money with the same quality.
I would still agree with you, if you identify as goth, you should be able to at least name 3 bands that you like, same goes for every other kind of music. If someone would come around and tell me that he loves rap and therefore dresses like he dresses and couldn't name at least some music, I wouldn't believe that person. Even so my answer what music and bands I enjoy wouldn't satisfy people, I always say that I like rock, because that makes it easier, can't list every single rock genre I like and listen to, at least I could tell you some bands I like.
No. 272319
>>272313>XtraXOh wow, I haven't heard that name in a long while lol But yeah I suppose you can say that with all the big ame popular alt brands like Tripp as well. With Killstar, I just found a lot of their patterns tacky with the vomit spilled occult symbols and even worse, how people buying those items didn't even know what the symbols were. I remember this girl who did a "Killstar Goth Haul" even say that the pentagram is a "goth symbol" lol. So stupid.
>I would still agree with you, if you identify as goth, you should be able to at least name 3 bands that you like, same goes for every other kind of music.Yeah like, it's okay if your favorites change every other week but if you can't or refuse to name at least some that you've enjoyed then it just leads me to suspect that you don't listen to the music. You never see this problem with Metalheads. Like unless it's people like the ones in
>>272073 , most Metalheads do tend to name drop some metal bands they enjoy. Like whenever I heard someone talk metal and get asked about their favorite bands, I've never seen one answer with "I like all kinds of metal music", no they just get right into it. Goth is the time I've seen this kinda thing happen in.
No. 272336
>>272071Thanks for the recommendations nona! I really liked Velvet Mist.
I guess I am a little picky kek. Too often I will like the general sound of the band (guitars, bass, synth, etc.), but then not like the singer’s voice.
No. 272453
>>272069 yea nona, she's opennly a
terf since 2020
No. 272563
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>>272453You intrigued me so I looked it up and holy shit you weren't joking. YES, I fucking love this kek
I hope she doesn't deflect and retract, we need people but especially women like her to show that even in the alt spaces, you don't have to be a slave to gender bullshit.
It makes sense with her though because she did all kinds of looks both feminine and masculine and it seems she has the sense to know it's all fashion and doesn't change your sex.
No. 278467
File: 1659044805266.jpg (102.12 KB, 900x543, 543-224838739.jpg)
Bump, because can't forget Inez Weski. She's a well respected lawyer in the Netherlands, there is not much known about her personal life (even birth date is unknown, so I'm not sure how much she is involved in the goth scene) but I love her for breaking the stereotype that all alternative people are all just lowlifes. Her book is very good too, I don't think a translation exists but if you're Dutch it's both insightful and funny.
>>272563Haha oh my god that's so hilarious and cool at the same time. Another reason to love her!
No. 279030
>>278495i haven't heard many songs from this band though I've liked what I've heard. Thanks for sharing this one, the sound is absolutely divine. As great as the classic goth bands are, I love seeing new goth bands continue carrying the torch of the genre.
Golden Apes are technically a second-wave Goth band since they started in the 90s but I was happy to hear a new song from them.
No. 279031
File: 1659318956467.jpg (37.98 KB, 380x604, bcfe0f38c7c1cbc9fc130b855b9b44…)
So I'm sure this will be an unpopular opinion but honestly whenever I come across self-proclaimed Goths on YouTube who are obviously gen z, I automatically assume they are not actually interested i Goth and are just into the look which even in my eyes, looks more edgy altgirl then it does "goth".
I know that you shouldn't assume or genewralize but every time I click on a video titled "goth look" or anything that has to do with fashion and I click to see if they've talked music, 99% of the time they don't have any music-related content including playlist and if they do have a TikTok, they usually only use rap-type music, older pop punk music from the late 2000s to 2010s, and/or 80s new wave like Depeche Mode or New Order.
And even if they do show playlists which some have that may have some goth music in it like the usual Bauhaus, Siouxsie, and The Cure, I just have a sneaking suspicion that they don't actually listen to the music and only have it for street cred sortaspeak.
Again unpopular opinion but it's just how I feel.
No. 283110
File: 1661185225034.jpg (61.86 KB, 564x546, d437c245a1c1b964b24cfded84c039…)
Any goth elders who would like to share how it was back in the good days here? I'm in my early 20s and considered myself goth ever since I was a kid and dreamed of finding other goths once I'd be older but I think it's dead here. You'll find some alternative people, sure, but they're usually only interested in fashion. There aren't any goth clubs here (nor have there ever been as far as I'm concerned).
On hand it's changed for the better, 10 years ago I was getting called a satanist and a freak just for a black dress and a couple of spikes. Now, you can find edgy/'alternative' wear in any other fast fashion store and so many people are wearing it. It's cool, I'd have been so happy as a kid, but it's all surface level and the fact that it's so accessible now means it attracts people who would otherwise not care to diy it. And so when you have a conversation with someone like that it usually turns out they just like anime and listen to 100 gecs. I tried to find some people online and the only local (as in from my country kek) community I could find consisted of balding 2deep4u vampire larper moids, normie moids looking for a 'baddie goth gf' and sad pickmes trying to impress them.
I miss being 13 and worrying I'd get called a poser, at least there were some people actually participating in the subculture back then. Most of cool people are probably not online I guess
No. 283213
>>283110I definitely think a lot of the older crowd is pulling away from online. I definitely have since I got over my BPD daddy issues teenage days. I consider myself "elder" only for the fact I have been goth long enough(over 15 years yikes) to also remember being bullied for my DIY fashion and called a freak for dating the only other goth in town.
I definitely struggle to connect with the vapid people who just dress in it for edge points and goffic arcs. The generational divide probably doesn't help. I am just barely a millennial and struggled enough to relate to them let alone zoomers.
Sadly my best advice to find like minds is to put yourself out there and start the community you want and hope like attracts like but also know you will have to deal with some retarded moths who just want to fly into your light(kek) as well.
People like Maddie Danger will say "there are discords out there to meet your fellow goths"but then not link any (probably to avoid anyone asking about her bow defunct one.)
End if the day wether we like it or not or think we are cut out for it we have to make the communities we want to see in our subcultures or else the future is left up to the zoomer gothcores.
Depending on your country and situation also maybe consider one of the big festivals like WGT or ML if you really can't build a community closer.
No. 283438
>>283416i would say youre goth.
there are the goths that go all in on it and have to make it their life.
house filled with halloween decor, wear goth clothing brands, seek out all new and obscure goth bands, proudly state that theyre goth where/when they can, etcetc….
but then theres the people who just are into that kind of stuff but dont go out of their way make it their whole being.
I think before social media most people were the latter, but now with the people trying to get online clout having to compete for it with others, they have to be over-the-top goth all the time.
so it gave the impression to younger people that they have to do all that shit to be considered a "real goth" too, which thus makes these younger people tell others that they're not a "real goth" cause they don't make it their whole being…
sorry for a little bit of a rant, but tldr: you're goth and i dont remember people being obsessed with the label and so hardcore about it before social media. it just used to be as simple as: you wear black and listen to the cure? you're goth.
No. 283505
>>283416I agree you would qualify as goth if you wanted the label.
The old crowd definitely uses music as the defining factor.
The zoomers think its aesthetic.
Some will claim you have to be "apart of the scene" but if you listen to the music that is being apart of the scene imo. That's definitely all I had growing up. There was no social media and I was not allowed out to the goth clubs/nights in the city (now you couldn't pay me to go to one.)
I guess tbf ymmv depending on what you want out of being goth too though. Like other anon said if someone wants clout they probably do all their decor shopping during fall and only drink black coffee. If you only care about being comfortable in your own skin who is going to come tell you you aren't goth.
Does bring up a few question for the fellow bats.
What is your local scene like?
Are you a lurker, participant or one of the thankless few keeping it going?
How do you feel and deal with all the handmaidens and genderspecials?
Is there a different city's scene you wish you were apart of?
>What is your local scene like?Shadow of it's former glory. One of the biggest cities in Canada and I think we have on avg 3 events a month now maybe less. A lot of problem people from both old and new crowds and people thrive on the social media drama. It's made me lose all interest in it.
>Are you a lurker, participant or one of the thankless few keeping it going?Lurker loner
>How do you feel and deal with all the handmaidens and genderspecials?Get blocked and called a
terf bully for spitting truths generally.
>Is there a different city's scene you wish you were apart of?Nope, this is the only one I have ever known and I think I will stick to Jfash events and hope to eventually make fashion friends who have wider range than "if your 555 I'm 666" mentality that plagues so many goffs.
No. 284159
>>283110I'm in my early 30s and I didn't get into Goth until I was 16 and for me, my time in Goth was in the mid to late 2000s and I hardly went out to the clubs. In fact I've only been to one twice and they weren't actual goth clubs but just clubs that would have "goth" nights and in one of them, they hardly played Goth music and were spinning Industrial bands like Combichrist, NIN, and Suicide Commando type stuff with the occasional Sisters of Mercy. The other night played some classics like Bauhaus, The Cure, Siouxsie, and Clan of Xymox but for the most part, it was just New Wave and Synth Pop music like Depeche Mode, Tears for Fears, and The Human League. I did love the later night but just saying, never experienced a a club that played nothing but Goth and Deahrock music is all.
I'll admit that I miss the days when alternative was still a niche. Yeah the bullying fucking sucked and that's the one thing I don't miss but it feels like there was more camaraderie back then. Sure there were still posers like the ones
>>283114 mentioned with those people who thought listening to bands like NIN, Rammstein, Evanescence, and HIM made them goth but for the most part, at least online I was finding myself being able to meet other people who were interested in actual Goth music and I was able to come across so many more bands in the genre that I hadn't heard of thanks to these people and I just miss those days.
And at the very least, even if you were called a poser, there was this incentive that if you wanted to not be labeled one, you had to get yourself to actually check out the usic and that goes for any scene really which only strengthened that camaraderie I mentioned earlier because ignoring the few asshats, most would still accept you in even if you were new and tried to make an effort to learn about and listen to the music. Compare that to nowadays where if you so muchas mention the music, you get labeled an "elitist" and/or "gatekepper".
No. 284162
>>283213This is so true. In order to see proper continuation of the goth scene and not let it subside to the likes of zoomer gothcores who only view it as some fashion show, us millennial and even gen x aged goths have to try to create the events and meetups that we once had with the clubs that are sadly closing down. It's tough though because we may not have as much time as we used to but I'm sure it can be done.
One idea I had but haven't executed yet was having a meetup at a local park to just chill and listen to goth music while having a little picnic/potluck type of thing. Cheesy I know but I dunno, I'd go to one kek.
Point is, we can't rely on the clubs anymore because they're sadly fading away and the only events that will feature some goth bands is really just Wave Gothic Treffen and not all of us live in the UK and can go to it so this is why a more DIY approach may be the best bet to continue the social aspect of our subculture.
No. 284168
>>283416In my honest opinion, the only way to qualify as a goth is to have an active likeness for the music. When I say "active", I mean listening to goth music and making an effort to explore the genre when you can and opening up your library.
To reiterate if you're just listening to the Cure, Siouxsie, and/or Sisters of Mercy and stopping there,I wouldn't call someone like this a "goth". I'm not saying that you have to only listen to goth music but what I am saying is that keeping yourself invested in the music from time to time and trying out new goth bands and songs and building up your library to where there's more than just the usual Bauhaus' "She's in Parties", Sisters of Mercy's "This Corrosion", The Cure's "Love Song", and/or Siouxsie and the Banshee's "Spellbound". This to me is someone who is a Goth.
To bounce off from
>>283438 , Try not to worry about fashion and home decor. These things are not required to be Goth and as we've seen with the modern craze of "Gothcore" with zoomers who only care about "aesthetic" and looking edgy, it really epitomizes why the fashion isn't as important as one would think because there are plenty of people these days who choose to dress like this but yet still have no interest in the music and these people are not goths, they are alternative at best and poser at worst. Think of people like Jake Munro and
Toxic Tears, these are people who I would say are good definitions of posers to be brutally honest.
>>283505>ome will claim you have to be "apart of the scene" but if you listen to the music that is being apart of the scene imo. That's definitely all I had growing up.Agree with this. I remember back in the day people would say that if you didn't go to goth clubs, you weren't a goth but that was ridiculous because not every town has a goth club and so I too think that just listening to and enjoying the music is more than enough.
No. 284169
>>283505>What is your local scene like?It's pretty dead where I live. I hardly see other goths out in public when I'm out and about. In the whole time I've lived where I do, I've only seen one other goth and the reason I knew was because she had a vest on with a large Christian Death logo on the back of it lol. Aside from her, I haven't met any other goths in my area.
>Are you a lurker, participant or one of the thankless few keeping it going?Mostly a lurker. I used to help an old online friend post music in a Facebook group dedicated to documenting goth bands but real life took over and we just got busy with our own lives and didn't have much time to devote to the group and we haven't been active in it in 3 years.
>How do you feel and deal with all the handmaidens and genderspecials?Pretty much like you, I just accept being called a "
terf" and blocked. I've gotten blocked from a few Goth groups for refusing to call MTFs by female pronouns and this other time for saying that I thought nonbinary was stupid and contradictory. This part of why I stopped trying to engage in goth groups these days because of how so many are mindless TRAs. It's made me wary of other alternative people in general tbh.
>>Is there a different city's scene you wish you were apart of?There are times where I wished I lived in a place like NYC where I could meet more goths but again, because of how so many seem to be mindless TRAs and/or the "core" types of people who don't like goth music, I've grown accustomed to just being on my own and dealing with the solitude that comes with it lol.
No. 284475
File: 1661882569631.jpg (5.91 KB, 300x298, R-415915-1260054201.jpg)
>>284168That's kind of where I am right now. I don't listen to a lot of goth bands and I don't go actively searching for new music, but the bands that I'm into I'm really into. Like I've been listening to the same five cure albums on repeat constantly for the past year. Also in the flat field(OT but does anyone else not like bauhaus's other albums? maybe this album is just so good everything else pales in comparison…)
I feel bad for you anons actively in the scene. Goth clubs barely even exist anymore and it seems like every alt person is a TRA/genderspecial/incel. But it's nice to know not everyone is like that.
No. 284540
>>284162It's not cheesy at all. There used to be picnic and craft meetups in Philly before the pandemic and they were really good for fostering community. They helped people make friendships outside of the club and also allowed people to share info more organically.
I ended up going to clubs less because promoters lied like hastags on tumblr or an aliexpress product description. Go for goth and you end up listening to anything but that. There was also an issue with local kink and steampunk groups coming in and acting like the events were theirs.
The few solid events that were promoted by handing out paper fliers had very few attendees. It's hard to want to go out when so many people bait and switch. Picnics were the best things.
No. 284586
File: 1661926878371.jpg (39.81 KB, 500x500, Bauhaus Mask.jpg)
>>284475>Listening to the same five Cure albums on repeat constantly for the past year>Bauhaus' In the Flat FieldWell going off of this, I wouldn't necessarily call you a "Goth" until you try out more bands but if you do have an interest in the music and are open to trying out more music when the mood hits, you would be the definition of a "baby bat", someone new to the music and is taking their time (as one should) exploring the genre.
>Does anyone else not like Bauhaus' other albums?I've only listened to their first 3 albums so far and I was quite fond of "Mask" but ITFF is pretty dang good and kinda hard to top so I understand where you're coming from.
No. 284589
File: 1661927738119.jpg (129.88 KB, 828x1012, bdcd77ef4b25f2f2a47ed3f041e657…)
>>284540The pandemic really did a number on the goth's social scene when it came to the clubs. My city only had one goth club and it closed down during the 2020 lockdown and there are no plans of it re-opening but even then, that goth club was starting to teeter away from goth music anyway. I remember the last time I went there, this one DJ spun Slipknot, Linkin Park, and Bring Me the Horizon and didn't play a single goth song. He played NIN's "Closer" but I feel like he was one of those guys who thought that NIN is a goth band kek.
>There was also an issue with local kink and steampunk groups coming in and acting like the events were theirs. I've seen this too! Not so much Steampunk, that never really caught on where I live but the kink and BDSM crowd made rounds at the one club and some of them were absolutely annoying to deal with, especially when it attracted normie guys to come in and try to pick up women there.
But right, I really wanna try the picnic idea when I have the time. Even if the turnout isn't big, I think it could still be fun even if it's just like 4-5 of us there and at the very least, we can just enjoy each other's company and know we all get each other musically and jam out to some goth songs while having refreshments and conversation. I'm just really socially starved to interact with fellow goths, it's been so long lol.
No. 285006
File: 1662160220572.jpg (385.47 KB, 1947x1181, sims DNA lounge.jpg)
DNA lounge in SF is supposed to be like one of the best goth clubs but they have this retarded DJ who always plays 2012 top 40s and like imagine dragons and shit
No. 285122
Does anyone else get crazy imposter syndrome when they're just doing their homebody things and wearing black sweats and no makeup even though you listen to goth music so you know you're not actually a poser?
>>284162My city does one of these most summers and I think its a great idea! Sometimes its even better if only a few chill people show up and you actually get to know them beyond edgy nickname, fav song and most obvious makeup inspo.
>>284168I actually super agree with this
>>284540Steampunk I kinda almost understand since it's fallen off and you know the meme about goths finding out about brown but wtf is with the kink people because no way they don't have their own nights, munches and spaces.
No. 285133
>>285122>Does anyone else get crazy imposter syndrome when they're just doing their homebody things and wearing black sweats and no makeup even though you listen to goth music so you know you're not actually a poser?I personally don't to be honest but I'm also in my 30s now and I've been into goth since I was a late teen. I used to feel that way when I was in my early 20s but stopped caring when I got to my mid-20s. It was mainly because after interacting with some other people who claimed to be goths and dressed in dark fashion only to learn that they didn't listen to the music put into perspective to me that it doesn't matter if you don't dress darklu all the time, let alone at home where you're just relaxing. I listen to the music and I enjoy it and if someone doesn't automatically think I am goth because I'm not wearing elaborate dark styled makeup, they will soon learn otherwise if they actually try to talk to me about the music lol.
So I would try not to worry about it. You know yourself better than others and if you enjoy the music, that's enough. I chill at home wearing my black sweats or lounge shorts while listening to some goth music and I feel content and I'm sure you'll get there too lol.
>My city does one of these most summers and I think its a great idea! Sometimes its even better if only a few chill people show up and you actually get to know them beyond edgy nickname, fav song and most obvious makeup inspo.Exactly.
No. 286793
File: 1662747584657.jpg (52.23 KB, 736x736, brandon_lee.jpg)
What do nonnies think of no make-up/little make-up and no black hair aesthetic? Since goth subculture has (perhaps had) a strong counter cultural element to it, I assume having to dye your hair a specific colour to feel a part of it would be just pure conformity. I also don't like the idea of wearing make-up daily or sporting a heavy look, this clashes with my views on performative femininity (although I know most make-up styles embraced by goth women and men aren't very traditional, and the fact that men wear make-up too also makes a diferrence) and my concerns about toxicity in cosmetic products. I have fair hair and wish to keep my natural colour and experiment with hairstyles instead. What are your thoughts on this? Do you dye your hair? Does make-up play a special role in your appearance?
No. 286871
>>286793Do what you're comfortable with, as you say the all black 'uniform' is (most of the time at least) just conformity from people who have their value in the wrong places and seek the easiest tool to enter/get validated from an established community. Experiment to find your aesthetic within your own boundaries.
I had the same concerns as you ages ago when I was more into the local community. Most of the time, the most striking looks where sported by clueless teens listening to industrial and thinking platform boots made them goths lol. I'm not gonna lie, I do sometimes want to dye my hair black just because it would make me look paler and sofisticated. But then I remember the important thing is what comes out of my earphones, why should I showcase everyone around me how goth I am at any time?
Personally, since I'm an autist and have my sensitivity issues, I've dropped nail polish, heavy jewelry, certain synthetic fabrics. Makeup, as in full face, I reserve for band concerts. For daily life a simple black eyeliner is enough. You know, when you get older you finally understand the venerable oldfags who dressed in simple band t-shirts and black denims haha. You can focus in having fun with your friends instead of making a competition out of your looks.
No. 286975
File: 1662816906497.jpg (52.09 KB, 576x577, 15943143230_b3eaac032d_z.jpg)
>>286793I used to dye my hair red (as in ginger) because I loved the contrast with dark clothing. I did try black at some point but it just looks better on other people. With make-up, I borrowed more from japanese fashion magazines and used muted browns and plums, sometimes blues, to create "pseudo-black" eyeshadow looks that would look more flattering on my skin tone and features, and bitten lip look in the darkest red I could find.
I'm not going to blog my entire life story but basically I couldn't afford to be ugly and it forced me to come up with my own stuff and experiment and my hairmake ended up becoming my "brand". Now I'm more like you.
It's very possible to keep an interesting style even if you don't use make-up or hair dye imo. I think it's better to focus on your personal influences, rather than whether your look will be perceived as Undeniably Goth or not. You'll never be able to flex on the Killstar alt zoomers kek don't waste your time
>>286871Agree. Also I'd love to know what your staple outfits are like, my sensory issues only get worse and I can't find anything wearable anymore.
No. 287421
>>286793Analyzing what you have said here, it makes me think you're focusing too much on the physical appearance and thinking that in order to be a true goth, you have to look a certain way by wearing a ton of makeup and having a certain hair color.
My response to that is just don't sweat it. Don't worry about dressing a certain way and doing things that you may not want to do aesthetically. Goth is music-based and all you need is to just listen to the music among the other music you listen to.
Now if you're just asking this question with genuine interest on what goths think of when it comes to not dressing like a stereotypical goth or alternative person? I don't mind at all. I do tend to wear mostly black because I simply like how it looks on me but I've also worn other colors. And I nope, I don't buy gOfF fashion like Killstar neither, most of my stuff is either basic or thrifted.
I have kept my hair black though because I just don't think I'd look good with other hair colors but that's just my personal choice.
>>286871All of this, is so right on.
>Personally, since I'm an autist and have my sensitivity issues, I've dropped nail polish, heavy jewelry, certain synthetic fabrics. Makeup, as in full face, I reserve for band concerts. For daily life a simple black eyeliner is enough.I'm kinda the same way as well as a fellow autist. I'll still occasionally paint my nails but not as much as I used to and I rarely ever do full on makeup looks anymore neither since it just made me feel uncomfortable and I find that I'm more than fine with good old black eyeliner and the occasional subtle black eyeshadow paired with it when the mood strikes.
>>286975>I did try black at some point but it just looks better on other peopleI'm the opposite lol. I remember wanting to try dying my hair red because I thought it looked quite beautiful with dark clothing like you said but I just feel like I wouldn't be able to pull it off and that it looks better on other people. Maybe I'll bite the bullet and try sometime but point is that just as nice as black looks awesome with dark clothes, so does red and even blonde because of the contrast they provide.
No. 288174
>>286871>>286975>>287141Thank you for your replies, nonnies!
>>287421I think you're under the wrong impression, I was rather arguing the opposite and just asking for personal opinions. Thanks for your reply too, nona!
No. 293373
Sorry for the super late reply here but to
>>285248Absolutionfest in FL is still running, I think it just finished this weekend actually.
No. 295253
File: 1666407972753.png (424.03 KB, 951x1200, Theda Bara.png)
Im in kind of a funny place, I still love goth music and media and listen to it a lot but i've grown tired of the visual when i was like 19, do I even still call myself goth? Whenever someone asks me what I listen to im like "oh like 80s-90s music with kind of an ethereal synth sound".
Back when I did dress the vibe I was very inspired by 1920s movies and sort of a vampiric image, pretty sure Theda Bara (picrel) was my lockscreen at some point.
No. 296191
>>295228I wasn't into goth in the 00s and didn't get into the scene until about 2010 but I remember I would see a lot of mislabeling in hindsight. Like back during the days of VampireFreaks an how people were labeling bands like Psyclon Nine, Rammstein, Evanescence, HIM, and other similar bands as "goth". As for people choosing to call themselves "goth" or not, I really do think it depends on location.
I'm a millennial and currently in the my 30s and where I lived, I did see the whole "you don't call yourself goth" rhetoric but this went for any alternative subculture like Punk and Emo. Meanwhile one of my older friends who has been into goth music a lot longer than I have shared that where she lived, no one gave anyone crap if they called themselves goth so long as they actually listened to the music. They mostly reserved the poser label for what she called "the spooky kids", the kids who thought that dressing in black while listening to Nu Metal and Industrial while carrying around a Marilyn Manson luncbox and thought they were goth for it.
>gothic rock and death rock bands were lame to listen to, it was only ok to like post-punk and some darkwave bands. Yeah the older friend I mentioned hates Deathrock though I'm not sure if she made fun of people back then for listening to it. I did turn her onto Horror Vacui and she said "they aren't actually terrible" lol.
>looking back at this time the people who were judging the more "extreme" goths and vehemently denying that they were goth, were very much still goth, so why did people have this attitude? was it a pushback because it was right after mall goth was popular?I feel like the reason why this was a mentality back then was because some people felt too embarrassed to admit that they had a deep interest in something so niche to the public. The mainstream bastardization of goth in the 90s and 00s probably didn't help neither.
No. 296193
File: 1666833399535.jpg (27 KB, 500x400, s-l500.jpg)
>>295228>>293159Speaking from the perspective of gen z: alternative subcultures, especially goth, have changed so much that's it's almost purely a fashion style now. Punk and emo and goth have sort of merged into one including their beliefs and music. I think one reason punk and goth subcultures were so tight-knit was that there wasn't really anything like it, you weren't being mistaken for emos or e-girls. And the only way you could get goth clothing was by DIY, market stalls and charity shops. Now alternative fashion and even wearing black is quite commonplace, it's harder to differentiate why goth is separate. Plus, the music has changed so much. Things like psychobilly and etherealwave aren't relevant at all now, so that's another part of goth subculture that's been lost. There's a big crossover with LGBT people and dressing alternatively; the punk "aesthetic" is very popular with the nonbinary and trans crowd. I'm not really sure why that is. /rant
>>295253>Back when I did dress the vibe I was very inspired by 1920s movies and sort of a vampiric imageThat sounds cool, have you got any examples?
No. 296194
File: 1666833517738.jpeg (1.37 MB, 1170x2127, 22003039-E16C-49DE-8734-653127…)
>>86956I love the idea of adding non-Western cultural elements to goth.
No. 296205
>>296193Milennial here and while what you said hold some truth albeit shallow (not you personally, just the mentality of these people). Please don't take what I'm about to say as an attack, try to see it more as some slight educating.
> Now alternative fashion and even wearing black is quite commonplacIf you're referring to fast fashion, it's like, can we all be real here? Take a look at these self-proclaimed "goth" clothes that these companies pump out and ask yourself if this looks like something goth musicians were wearing back in the day. That just wasn't happening. You didn't see goht bands decked out in occult symbolism. And don't get me started on how some of these people don't understand that polytheistic religions like Wicca and Satanism are not "goth" things.
>it's harder to differentiate why goth is separateI disagree. Maybe it's because I've been around for a long time now and have caught onto certain characteristics with looks actually relevant in the scene but personally, I can tell the difference between someone who more than likely is into what goth actually is vs a vapid trender. If you're decked out in a whole ensemble by Killstar, I am not afraid to say that I wouldn't believe the person is a goth at all.
And finally, goth music is still being made and it still sticks out from most genres of music.
>Plus, the music has changed so much.Not really, the core of the goth sound is still there via the way the guitar sounds. It is true that with some bands, you see them experimenting with different singing styles and maybe even incorporating another style of instrument to the mix but the core fundamentals are still there.
>Things like psychobilly and etherealwave aren't relevant at all nowPsychobilly is not nor ever has been a goth subgenre, it's offshoot came from fusion of Punk Rock and Rockabilly. The "punkier" subgenre of goth is Deathrock. And Ethereal Wave, that subgenre of music was never all that popular, not compared to Darkwave and Goth rock which always were the most popular.
>There's a big crossover with LGBT people and dressing alternatively; the punk "aesthetic" is very popular with the nonbinary and trans crowd. I'm not really sure why that is.I'm gonna e honest, it's fucking retarded is what it is. Goth never had anything to do with "qUeErNeSs". Call me a
terf, not afraid to speak the truth, this is all just tardism and nevermind that most of these people don't even listen to the music anyway.
No. 296215
>>296205>while what you said hold some truth albeit shallowSuch is the life of the zoomer.
>If you're referring to fast fashion,I mean fashion in general. You could get a gothic outfit from Primark. Things like chains, chokers, BDSM-inspired clothing as well aren't hard to find nor as shocking now. I guess I should mention that where I live is full of students and all kinds of fashion styles, so it's not entirely out of the norm.
> If you're decked out in a whole ensemble by Killstar, I am not afraid to say that I wouldn't believe the person is a goth at all. I agree. But not everyone who calls themself goth wears Killstar. And not everyone who wears Killstar identifies as goth. Let's be real, you can wear a black outfit and people may think you're goth, even if you don't listen to the music. If you can look identical to an actual goth yet have completely different music tastes, then it's no surprise that most people can't tell the difference and think it's a fashion movement. You can't really tell someone's music taste by their clothes anymore (maybe that defeats the point?).
>And finally, goth music is still being made I know .. I don't think I've explained my points, sorry about that. I meant that what is considered goth music has shifted (depending on who you ask). And also not as relevant; I've literally never heard of anyone being called a poser in my life.
>Psychobilly is not nor ever has been a goth subgenre, it's offshoot came from fusion of Punk Rock and RockabillyYes. But some goths of the 80s enjoyed that type of music and there was a crossover of people who liked the genres you listed and gothic ones. I'd say songs like by Boneshaker by Alien Sex Fiend were inspired by rockabilly (and The Cramps maybe), and they're a goth band right. And the rockabilly style definitely had an influence on gothic fashion. I haven't encountered that connection amongst zoomers. It's another facet of the goth community that's been lost, is what I'm trying to get across. The sort of music goth people liked has narrowed down to more popular stuff like metal and emo music (at least with people I know).
>Not really, the core of the goth sound is still there Yet, what might be considered goth sound isn't. A lot of metal heads wear gothic fashion. Not saying that's what it means to be goth, but that's what I've noticed.
>Goth never had anything to do with "qUeErNeSs". Call me a terf, not afraid to speak the truth, this is all just tardism and nevermind that most of these people don't even listen to the music anyway.Here,here!
No. 296242
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>>86956Someone help me find more photos of goth boys doing mundane everyday shit
No. 296311
>>296215 >>296260How do you think it could happen? I've been thinking about that for a while regarding different subcultures, not just goth.
When I was a little baby goth you had to fight tooth and nail to find something like a spiky collar, or make stuff like that yourself. I remember people barking at me (kek) when I wore a choker out. Nowadays it's really popular and so is outlandish make up.
Nowadays you're expected to look polished and/or glammed out. Either zoomer grungry, grimey fashion trends are still accompanied by precise, flawless make up. It might be smudged and dark but it has a very surgical 'clean' look to it.
So going the other way might be it imo. I could see a make up less look with teased hair and lots of layers as a rejection of the current norms in some way. Although we live in very image obsessed times so sometimes I feel like the only 'true' modern counter culture would be rejection of aesthetics in general.
No. 296328
File: 1666897525912.jpg (256.91 KB, 1280x1909, John Koviak.jpg)
>>296215>I mean fashion in general. You could get a gothic outfit from Primark. Things like chains, chokers, BDSM-inspired clothing as well aren't hard to find nor as shocking now. I guess I should mention that where I live is full of students and all kinds of fashion styles, so it's not entirely out of the norm.Chains, chokers, and BDSM inspired clothing are not goth staples thugh. Chains and chokers are universally popular in all alternative subcultures, especially Punk. When I say "certain characteristics", when it comes to goth I'm talking things like Winklepicker boots, the iconic Siouxsie / Patricia Morrison eye makeup style, big teased hair (or the death hawk), Ankhs, and dress shirts paired with rosaries. These are the staples of Goth where you don't tend to see these particular things outside of Goth. Well save for the ankh but you get what I mean lol.
>But not everyone who calls themself goth wears Killstar. And not everyone who wears Killstar identifies as goth.In my anecdotal experience, I have not met any goth who was into Killstar, the sentiment I've heard from other goths about the brand is it's tacky or cheaply made clothes.
>Let's be real, you can wear a black outfit and people may think you're goth, even if you don't listen to the music.True but that's been a thing since the 90s where people assumed that if anyone wore an all black ensemble, they were goth which is not true.
>If you can look identical to an actual goth yet have completely different music tastesThat's the thing though, most of the people don't look like actual goths. The stuff I mentioned prior about certain characteristics that are goth specific, most trendies don't wear these things and instead, are just wearing generic alternative looking stuff, often fast-fashion looking or trying to look like the "e-girl goff thot". I'm more likely to think a person is actually into goth if I see them wearing something like Winklepicer boots or have the big teased Robert Smith / Siouxsie Sioux hair, and the like vompared to someone who looks like they fell out of a Aliexpress/Shein dustbin and aren't wearing any of the staples I pointed out.
>You can't really tell someone's music taste by their clothes anymore (maybe that defeats the point?).Eh with Goth, most definitely I can lol. As I said, goth has characteristics that aren't mainstream and that only someone who actively looks into the scene would pick up on compared to general generic alt stuff that you see today.
>I meant that what is considered goth music has shifted (depending on who you ask). Except it hasn't. The only people who think that are clueless trenders who get butthurt when you call them out that their music taste aren't goth. This is no different than clueless teens back in the 2000s who would label bands like Evanescence, HIM, and Motionless In White as "goth bands" when they weren't. It's no different now with the clueless kids calling bands like Pale Waves, Billie Eilish, and Lil Peep as "goth".
> But some goths of the 80s enjoyed that type of music and there was a crossover of people who liked the genres you listed and gothic ones.And? You realize that just because a certain person likes something doesn't make it the same right? A lot of early metal musicians were fans of Blues musicians, does that make blues musicians metal because some early metalehads like that music? Of course not. Goth is no different, just because goths also listen to non-goth music, it doesn't make the non-goth music goth by association. Goth is a defined music-based genre, nothing more, nothing less.
>Alien Sex Fiend's "Boneshaker Baby"Not all of Alien Sex Fiend's music was Deathrock. Just like The Cure and Siouxsie, they too also jumped around with different genres with their music.
It's kinda like the band The Frozen Autumn. Contrary to popular belief, not all their music was Darkwave as they also dabbled with Synth Pop but that doesn't make Synth Pop goth, Synth pop is a new wave subgenre.
>The CrampsThe Cramps aren't a goth band, they were a varied band but they never dabbled with Goth rock or any of the goth subcgenres. They were definitely pioneers of Psychbilly like how Bsuhaus was the pioneer of Goth. But as I said before, Psychobilly is not a goth subgenre, just a subgenre of punk and rockabilly.
>The sort of music goth people liked has narrowed down to more popular stuff like metal and emo music (at least with people I know).Then I'm sorry to be blunt but the people you know are posers if they're the kinda people who think lisening to metal and "emo" music while wearing black makes them "goth". They are the modern day "mallgoffs". Just because goth music isn't popular, the principles don't change.
No. 296333
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>>296311>So going the other way might be it imo. I could see a make up less look with teased hair and lots of layers as a rejection of the current norms in some way. Although we live in very image obsessed times so sometimes I feel like the only 'true' modern counter culture would be rejection of aesthetics in general.Look at photos of goth bands from the 80s, they didn't look OTT at all. Picrel with The Mission, don't look outlandish at all lol.
No. 297637
>>296328Hey I just remembered you replied to me.
>These are the staples of Goth where you don't tend to see these particular things outside of Goth. Time marches on.
>Goth is no different, just because goths also listen to non-goth music, it doesn't make the non-goth music goth by association. There is more to goth than the music otherwise why the hell does it matter what people wear.
>The Cramps aren't a goth bandI feel like we will have to disagree here.
No. 306309
File: 1672841421026.gif (1.52 MB, 222x183, dancinggirl.gif)
To my beloved goth anons who are active on the goth/alternative scene or in similar scenes: How much money do you spend on going to clubs and concerts every month? How do you decide what events are you going to and what events are you missing? Specially if there's almost no activity in your area and missing an event probably means having to wait at least 2 months for something similar to be organised. There's a concert in february 2h away from my town and the ticket is 16€, it's not very cheap but the bands are pretty decent despite being unknown. The problem is that there's no afterparty following the concert so I'll have nowhere to go after midnight. The earliest bus departs at 7am and luckily there's a cafe nearby that stays open until 3am, so I'd only have to wander around the solitary city night for a few hours (or I could stay in the bus station having my own solo afterparty with my headphones). Bus tickets cost 7€ each trip so that night I'll be spending 30€ minimum (plus whatever drink I order in the cafe).Is it a reasonable price for going out just this time in february? I'd really like to go and have fun dancing while wearing a nice outfit for once, but at the same time I know this is a rather expensive adventure. What do you think? Any advice from similar experiences?
>>302606I can't really recommend because I've never bought clothing online from an alternative style shop. What are you looking for exactly, nona?
No. 306595
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No. 313004
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can't stand fucking zoomers against gatekeeping. it is really that hard to listen to goth music? shit is already diverse and liking sioux or bauhaus isn't a must. you can't be a metalhead or punk without listening to metal or punk music, but somehow buying shein and killstar bullshit is enough to be goff. fuckers can't even sew or dye nowadays. i swear white people just make any excuse to feel oppressed instead of actually doing manual work with clothing. unsaged because of rage
No. 313451
>>313441for real, the rant sounded okay up until the "wah yt ppl" part. there's people of every race that don't want to/don't have time to diy.
>>312521looks good
No. 313458
>>313441found the killstar goth
even the 2000s mallgoths were more legit because they actually gave a fuck about music unlike zoomer goths that literally ignore any goth music influences and just go straight for the ~*aesthetics*~~
No. 313460
File: 1676839963400.png (3.22 KB, 355x69, uuuu.png)
>>312769Ah yes, this is good stuff. I'm playing
Sulk right now after all these years and for a few moments I feel like it's 2016 again and I just dyed my hair black for the first time! I don't do that shit anymore tho… Goth feels as dead now as it did to me back then. Who said that goth can't die because it's undead?
No. 313525
>>313441lmao can you read? i stated that there's only one rule to be part of most alt scenes/cultures and that rule is just listen to the genre attached to it. and said rule includes a wide range of styles and artists. it is too difficult for a killstar zoomie?
>>313451since most people interesed in such a non issue as muh gatekeeping and goth are white, its a cringey but relevant fact
No. 313842
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>>313716Hi, nonna. I’m a non-white goth who’s been involved in my local scene for about a year. Regarding clothes, start with the basics. Use dark/black clothes that you already own as a base for outfits. If you want to buy anything, I would recommend buying clothing second hand before splurging on new items. Some of my favorite clothes I’ve gotten from thrift stores, or websites like Poshmark. Tights are really good way to make an outfit look more gothic. You can wear tights as is, or cut the crotch and make a fish-net type shirt for layering. Look for jewelry bundles on places like eBay or Etsy for some cheap and spooky accessories. You can use old fabric from shirts as a base for band pataches. Basic paint will do.
Regarding being non-white in the goth scene, I haven’t encountered overt bigotry by other people in the scene. I was worried I was gonna get called a poser, or worse, feel ostracized from everyone else. But my experience has been pretty positive so far. I even made other minority goth friends. Good luck!
No. 314268
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>>313716Hey there anon, fellow
POC goth here and I've been in the scene for about 11 years now. Please don't worry about your race when getting in the scene because for the most part, people in the scene will not give you shit because of your race, most are very accepting and inviting. The main thing that matters is that you actually listen to the music. If you listen to actual goth music, you're gonna have no problem at all because they will know that you actually like the subculture for what it truly is centered around.
>>313842 offered some very good advice on cultivating a wardrobe but I want to emphasize to not get too wrapped in trying to looking dressed up all the time because all that will do is give you identity crisis'. This is why I highly suggest remembering to get involved with the music. Look at different goth playlists on places like YouTube and Spotify and so on.
All that I can't stress in saying is please don't think that the subculture is racist because there aren't very many goth bands with black musicians. Please remember that this is not because goth is racist but the reality is that not very many black people are interested in making goth music. I just can't stress this enough because this is an annoying pitfall I see many black alt people fall into thinking that alt subcultures are racist when the reality is that not many black people are interested in making the music.
No. 314570
>>314268>>313842Thank you Nonnies!
I have been into the music and adjacent genres since my teen days, as I was leaving metal music behind I shifted towards darker music, even since childhood I’ve been into goth literature, art, inspired movies and so on, I just now got over my fear of expressing it through fashion.
Today I went shopping and looked for a couple of things that could even be modded, gathered a bunch of jewelry I want to mod aswell. I am very excited.
I always cut my hair myself and I am in love on how a V fringe looks on me, thank you for your support I can’t wait to be able to put outfits together naturally!
No. 314901
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I've been in my local (punk) scene for like a year and a half now and honestly the longer I've been in the scene the more jaded I've become. It's so fucking painful how fake everyone is, there have been multiple times where I'm talking to a band and then some fucking rat scurries in and starts trying to advertise and ask to play with them. Every time someone tells me that they actually hate a person they act buddy buddy with, 10 years gets taken off my life. Don't get me started on how popular synth punk is here because I fucking hate it. Still love going to shows though
At least JTHM is funnier now compared to first reading it at 14 with no knowledge of any scenes.
No. 318220
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Can someone make a meme with this?
No. 318438
>>306309This is long after your event but I think it's an interesting question, I don't make that much money and still probably spend a minimum of $1500 a year on events, but we have goth or goth-adjacent stuff to go to almost every weekend in my city. I try to get out every Friday and Saturday, 3 or 4 weeks a month, most months of the year unless I am away visiting family in December. I probably spend at least $20 on alcohol while there, and events usually range between rare $5 and more common $10-15 admission, up to 20, rarely as much as 40-60 for annual events. I live downtown relatively close to venues so I can normally take the public transit and save money on expensive cabs, but I know for many people (who I see out as often as I am) transportation is their most expensive hurdle, on top of spending twice as much on drinks and who knows how much on the occasional bump of cocaine or whatever the kids are into these days.
It's certainly expensive but it requires a community willing to spend that money, for the scene to thrive, for the bands and DJs to get by, for the venues to stay open, and so on. Since covid most of our scene has dried up and is in its death throes, but luckily the bats are coming back out of the bell tower and our old haunts are opening back up.
I think DIY is so important because the young people should be making good memories, enjoying youth, spending their money on events and helping support the real life scene they're interested in, rather than spending all that money on clothes from companies that don't give a shit, to look cool to the vain skin-deep online community.
No. 318851
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I don’t know if I’m biased, but I always thought I hated romantic goth. I now see that I only hate the “female” version of it. Why does it look so tacky, both illustrations and fashion always looked so bad to me. Lucky for me I look great in fag vampire clothes.
No. 319725
>>317334AYRT that's fair I don't have TikTok but Ido have IG though i don't browse on it all the much. It's just that on YouTube when I'm searching for Goth content creators, I come across some YouTube Shorts of "goths" and they're these girls wearing all black but playing classical music and plastering "goth" in it and I'm just like really? lol It's a petty nitpick I know but it's just funny because you know these people more than likely don't listen to Goth music.
It's kind of the same as when you see people claim to be goth and will only play Bauahus' "Bela Lugosi's Dead" or Siouxsie and the Banshee's "Spellbound" in their outfit video clip and you just know that these girls don't actually listen to the music and just go for the most well-known song that pops up on Google or YouTube search lol.
No. 319810
>>318438>I think DIY is so important because the young people should be making good memories, enjoying youth, spending their money on events and helping support the real life scene they're interested in, rather than spending all that money on clothes from companies that don't give a shit, to look cool to the vain skin-deep online community.I agree with this a lot and I feel this is what the younger generation doesn't understand when it comes to alternative subcultures in general. They seem to get so wrapped up in looking a certain way to look cool and edgy while not giving attention to the actual substance of the respective subculture treating it like some trend which is why they tend to get burned out so quickly because they're only focusing on it from a shallow level. The actual "community" was built around the music while also bringing in DIY and events to bring everyone together.
I think back to a video someone recorded at Coachella that was flooded with "influencers" and how instead of taking in the music, they were all just filming themselves and taking selfies….
No. 320603
>>319725Yeah, I understand your exasperation. Let's hope it doesn't take much longer until goth becomes unpopular again.
>>318438Thanks a lot for replying! I'm still interested in hearing other anon's opinions and experiences like yours because I'm still struggling to decide how much should I spend on weekends. I've decided I'm going to live April to the fullest and I've already bought so many tickets to alt events. It's pretty much like you said, some people can cut expenses depending on their personal situation. In my case I have to spend literally the same amount of money on transportation than in tickets.
>I think DIY is so important because the young people should be making good memories, enjoying youth, spending their money on events and helping support the real life scene they're interested in, rather than spending all that money on clothes from companies that don't give a shit, to look cool to the vain skin-deep online community.Exactly.
>>319810>They seem to get so wrapped up in looking a certain way to look cool and edgy while not giving attention to the actual substance of the respective subculture treating it like some trend which is why they tend to get burned out so quickly because they're only focusing on it from a shallow level. Yess. I think when gatekeeping goth stopped being a thing, and many regular clothing brands helped to push the whole
X subculture as an aesthetic with Goth and Metal particularly, things pretty much went to shit. A decade ago it was very obvious who claimed to belong to a subculture which they didn't actually care about. Now I see people, specially young girls, who show their apparently super elaborated and layered looks and bedrooms on social media but I can't help but feel everything as unauthentic. And I'm talking about people who call themselves
goth.
No. 320640
>>320603>Yeah, I understand your exasperation. Let's hope it doesn't take much longer until goth becomes unpopular again.AYRT FFR, I cannot wait for this day to come because it's so annoying seeing this happen. Though I will say that on the upkeep, goth music has been going stronger than ever despite the poser trend the name "goth" has gotten in recent years.
>I think when gatekeeping goth stopped being a thing, and many regular clothing brands helped to push the whole X subculture as an aesthetic with Goth and Metal particularly, things pretty much went to shit.Totally and this is why gatekeeping is actually good because look at the bullshit that has happened with Goth. Heck even Metal and Punk wasn't spared but at least with Metal, Metalheads don't give a shit on calling out posers, well at least the old ones anyway because I'm sure younger generation Metalheads are much more hesitant. But either way goth needs the same kind of handling. I mean it's not like those of us who know that goth is a music-based scene are keeping the music away from newcomers.
People who are actually interested in the scene will put in the work to legitimately learn about it and see if it's the scene for them and that is what a lot of young generation today don't seem to comprehend (or they're too lazy.
>Now I see people, specially young girls, who show their apparently super elaborated and layered looks and bedrooms on social media but I can't help but feel everything as unauthentic."Unauthentic", that's the perfect word to describe this, great word choice anon. It just feels so soul-less, these girls because you know deep down they don't actually care and in a year or two, they'll be on to the next trend.
No. 321611
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>>320640Yes! And why are teens nowdays so hesitant to get to know the subculture? When I was in high school I was so scared of being fake, it took me years to feel a little bit knowledgeable on goth music and ffs I've never declared myself goth.Now it's all about picking the label
Goth and claiming it is whatever they decide it is!
>>320648>>320720Lmao anon
By the way, does anyone listen to the Cemetery Confessions podcast? I've listened to a couple of the Gothquisition episodes and they're actually fun, I like the female guests a lot.
No. 321987
>>321611>Yes! And why are teens nowdays so hesitant to get to know the subculture? When I was in high school I was so scared of being fake, it took me years to feel a little bit knowledgeable on goth music and ffs I've never declared myself goth.Now it's all about picking the label Goth and claiming it is whatever they decide it is! Same! Granted I'm a millennial in my 30s and I didn't get into goth until I was 16, I was scared of being seen as fake as well. .I remember when I went through a fake punk phase in mu freshmen thinking I was so punk because I listened to bands like Blink-182, Green Day, and Good Charlotte and I got called out by an actual punk who listened to actual punk bands like Bad Brains, The Germs, and Black Flag kek It was embarrassing but I'm glad someone told me what was up and I kept that in mind when I found my way to goth. The kids today would say that I experienced gatekeeping but it really wasn't, I was being a dumb ass kid who didn't know what actual punk was.
I don't understand why teens are hesitant to give the subculture an actual try by listening to the music. They whine about elitism but it's not elitism, those of us who know what goth is about don't think we are better than newbies.
>Cemetery ConfessionsI used to watch his podcast a few years back and I thought it was good but he eventually started going a little too political which isn't something I'm personally into and stopped watching.
No. 322397
>>321987>They whine about elitism but it's not elitism, those of us who know what goth is about don't think we are better than newbies.Exactly!
>I used to watch his podcast a few years back and I thought it was good but he eventually started going a little too political which isn't something I'm personally into and stopped watching.Yeah, now I get what you mean. I started with some of the older episodes and now that I've checked more recent ones I notice some remarks I'm not very fan of. For instance, Zakkarrii (who I was about to bring up itt because one anon was requesting opinions and experiences from goths of color) calls herself non-binary now. I can't believe people are willing to gatekeep and defend a 50 year old subculture but not actual womanhood.
No. 322406
>>322397> I can't believe people are willing to gatekeep and defend a 50 year old subculture but not actual womanhood.Nta but I agree. Goth has always been very accepting and perhaps more left-leaning, but I feel in recent years there’s been this alienation going on regarding politics. Perhaps this phenomenon is just online, but I have joined goth groups and communities where if you were not a staunch supporter of the transgender ideology or the harmful “sex-positive” stuff (think OF, sex work, and porn), then you are practically shunned. I’m a feminist, so this can be difficult at times.
Sorry to bring drama into this, but I think of the case of Kai Decadence. He had some fairly good resources in his videos and listened to the music, but once it was found out that he was gender critical, he became the “one that shall not be named”. Other YouTubers called him out and blocked him, then on the goth subreddit he was banned and posts were made warning others not to follow him anymore. It just seemed extreme to me.
Then a while back, Angela Benedict made a statement regarding the transgender movement. I can’t remember what exactly because everything has been deleted, but anyone with a differing viewpoint or tried to debate this was blasted by her followers, and she basically said that fans of her who were “transphobic” were unwelcome. It’s hard to say if she is actually a supporter or if she is just trying to save face (like most people online), but the point is that anyone that did not agree with the ideology for whatever reason was met with aggression and a hard statement of “You do not belong in the Goth community.”
I guess what I’m saying is, I wish it wasn’t always so hostile online when it comes to this topic and like you said, many of us are just trying to defend our spaces and rights as women.
No. 322521
>>322397>Yeah, now I get what you mean. I started with some of the older episodes and now that I've checked more recent ones I notice some remarks I'm not very fan of. For instance, Zakkarrii (who I was about to bring up itt because one anon was requesting opinions and experiences from goths of color) calls herself non-binary now. I can't believe people are willing to gatekeep and defend a 50 year old subculture but not actual womanhood.AYRT, yeah exactly. I first discovered the podcast back in 2015 and I found it so refreshing to find a podcast that actually talked about goth music but also talked about various pop culture outside the scene while goth was the main focus. The cohosts were interesting as well but as I said, they eventually started talking politics and it was so far lefty that I just couldn't hang I guess. I mean I'm a leftist myself but I don't agree with everything that the far left pushes for.
>Zakami identifies as nonbinary nowDoes she really? It's been a hot minute since I watched the podcast but the last time I watched, she didn't call herself "nonbinary". I agree with you, it's quite sad how people are willing to defend the subculture but won't do the same for womanhood. It doesn't help that so many women in the goth scene have started identifying as nonbinary as well (while hilariously looking as feminine as possible). It's fucking depressing to see tbh.
No. 322522
>>322406Oh my gosh I was wondering if this topic would come up about how trans ideology has totally captured the goth scene. Thankfully this is lolcow and most of us here are not TRAs on this platform so I feel safe speaking about it here and you're absolutely right and I agree with you.
I heard about the drama with Kai Decadence and how he was outcast by the scene because he is gender critical. I missed the Angela Benedict fiasco though, I heard the she made a video where she threw Kai under the bus and show her support for the transgender ideology but she deleted the video before I could watch it. It doesn't seem like it was up long it seems.
I think it's absolutely frustrating how the trans ideology is so divisive in the scene to where if you aren't a supporter of it, you're essentially blacklisted from the scene.
No. 323718
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Does anyone else get annoyed whenever a self-proclaimed "goth" feels the need to label anything that they're interested in that happens to be spooky or dark as "goth"?
"That shirt is just totally goth" (shirt has a graphic of a cat with a pentacle or moon on it's forehead)
"I totally got to wear this "GOTH" cross"
"I've gotta have my "goth coffee""
I watch this streamer who I personally don't think is a real goth as whenever anyone asks her what her favorite band is, she doesn't list any goth bands and the one time she shared what goth music she liked, she named Voltaire and anyone who knows his music knows he doesn't make goth music Anyway she always feels the need to call certain non-goth related things as "goth" and I just find it irritating.
I hate that it bothers me because it feels like I have a stick up my ass but yet it just annoys me and it makes me think that the person doing this is insecure and it comes off very poseur. Like they know that they aren't really into the music but want to keep their "goth cred" or something.
No. 324036
>>323840Oh gosh I'm so sorry you are going through this with the creep skinwalking ex. And yeah he's a total poser by what you described since you actually played Goth music for him and he ended up not liking it. I can't help but feel for guys like that, it's some sort of fetish thing. I wouldn't be surprised if it was anyway.
>It’s one thing if you actually listen to goth music and do that, I don’t really care thenOh I'm the same. When I hear people who actually know ad listen to goth music make little jokes like that, I don't mind it neither because I know deep down they are joking and actually do like and know what the subculture is about.
No. 325037
>>325000>I blame people like Social Repose and Jake Munro for this "goth reacts" fad.Yes. Reeree Phillips did the same thing years ago too. She was a metalhead, but would always put “goth” in the title of her videos. She seems to have moved on now though.
It’s too bad this trend hasn’t died out after all these years already. I don’t lurk goff YouTube as much anymore so I’m surprised there’s still people doing “goth reacts to ____”.
No. 325140
>>325037Oh yeah I forgot about ReeRee Phillips, she was another self-proclaimed "goth" who was really just a metalhead who did this as well.
And right, I still try looking for new goth youtubers to watch but sadly there really aren't many legit ones these days.
No. 325159
File: 1683103333692.jpeg (20.76 KB, 461x328, 1d-nicolas-cage-am-goth-bitly3…)
This headline always made me kek
No. 325193
>>325159honestly… yeah. he does a lot of goth things even if he doesn't embody the fashion
>>314570>>314268im so late but i love you
POC goth girls
No. 326154
>>325913>>325914We all gotta start somewhere. Now you coming from a R&B background… This one is tough because goth music and R&B are vastly different and I can't really think of any vocalists in goth who go for a singing style that you typically hear in R&B music.
That said maybe Gitane Demone may be right up your alley. Her voice has a "soulful" type of feeling to it that I think you might like.
No. 327243
Thanks for all the music recs!
>>326800>>326154>goth music and R&B are vastly differentYeah without a doubt. It's kind of hard bouncing back and forth between the two because they're so different. I kind of chose goth music for that reason, didn't want to stay married to one genre so I picked one that was very different. I think the easiest way for me to transition is by listening to the genre for what it's worth and not trying to transfer over different styles. I was also worried about the label post-punk as a neophyte as I didn't want to be led astray into anything that is different from goth, but I assume goth music is a subcategory of post-punk?
I think when it comes to music of any genre, I like when a song has a very dark tone/sort of creepy sound to it. So far I like Siouxsie & the Banshees and the Cocteau Twins (admittedly the latter has a more ethereal quality which I also like). As for newer bands go I like Kælan Mikla. I think for older music I'm currently looking for songs from the 90s, since a lot of my other old music is about that age so it sounds recent enough to my ears (2000sfag soz) but doesn't make me feel like I'm trying to larp as my old lady who listens to a lot of 80s/90s music.
No. 327680
>>327302I totally get you aoon. Goth scene as far as the music goes is still going strong despite what some people say. I come across new goth music dropping every other day. Does it get high views? No, but even back in the 80s and 90s, goth was still a niche subculture and a lot of goth bands went unnoticed by the mainstream so the way I see it, the music scene as far as interest in creating it goes, it's still going strong.
But I agree that from the outside looking in, the gen x'ers and older millennial goths were so fun to watch.
>I admired and appreciated their commitment to DIY and coming up with creative ways to find rad shit and make their own goth outfits.Agreed! Whenever I look at pictures of goths from the 1980s and 1990s, while they may share similar makeup styles, the outfits tended to look different from one another, even when in all black.They raided thrift stores and simple stores and found ways to DIY their clothes or find nifty accessories to help make their outfits pop while still managing to stand out from one another.
I still try to do this myself though I will admit I have bought some fast fashion but I try my best to take that one item and mix it with things I have thrifted to help keep it from looking too cookie-cutter if that makes sense?
I too have noticed that zoomers do exactly what you said and it's so boring to see because they end up looking the same clothing-wise.
No. 330035
File: 1684769745423.png (860.55 KB, 2048x1385, 2004 goths.png)
Happy Goth Day, anons
No. 330117
>>330035Happy Goth day!
Special shoutout to anyone who went to Asylum in Sacramento in the late 2000s
No. 330286
>>330266Thanks for your valuable contribution
I must confess I’m a bit confused. I look through playlists of goth music and all the bands I read there are often called “not goth but dark adjacent”. I haven’t read one band name where people agreed “yes, it’s goth”. I didn’t grow up in an English speaking country so bands like Joy Division or Siouxie and the banshees were not really popular but we had our own goth music in our language. So were we all never goth or? This is just fucking with my mind a bit.
You all have been discussing a lot if music here, understandably but I wonder do you do other goth (maybe klishee) activities? Do you write poems or go visit cemeteries? kek
I never did but I really love old horror like Dracula and Frankenstein. I’m not so much of a reader anymore but I love listening to atmospheric audio books.
No. 330521
>>330286>I must confess I’m a bit confused. I look through playlists of goth music and all the bands I read there are often called “not goth but dark adjacent”. I haven’t read one band name where people agreed “yes, it’s goth”. I didn’t grow up in an English speaking country so bands like Joy Division or Siouxie and the banshees were not really popular but we had our own goth music in our language.Hm what country do you live in anon? Because I guarantee that there are probably some goth bands in your country but generally goth music is very niche and this is especially in countries outside the west.
>ou all have been discussing a lot if music here, understandably but I wonder do you do other goth (maybe klishee) activities? Do you write poems or go visit cemeteries? kekI never did but I really love old horror like Dracula and Frankenstein. I’m not so much of a reader anymore but I love listening to atmospheric audio books.
There is no such thing as "goth activities" anon. The only thing required to be goth is to simply like and enjoy the music, the clothing is a bonus but not the core. Reading gothic literature or writing melancholic poetry is not a "goth" thing, anyone can be into doing those things and they wouldn't be goth for it. And I'll just be real here, the amount of goths who actually have an active interest in reading and keeping up with gothic literature is quite minuscule.
No. 330537
>>330521I’m from Germany. In hindsight I thought, maybe I never got exposed to the big ol classics simply because my friends didn’t listen to them.
>There is no such thing as "goth activities" anon. The only thing required to be goth is to simply like and enjoy the musicAnon I know this was more like tongue in cheek. I find it not uncommon for goths to have unconventional hobbies though so I was hoping to hear something interesting.
No. 330577
>>330537AYRT and Germany? There are quite a few goth bands that hail from your country but again, I understand why you may not know of many since as I said before, it's a niche genre of music and this can especially be true if you don't know anyone who listens to the music.
Anyway some German goth bands that come to mind are The Merry Thoughts, Night Nail, The Tors of Dartmor, Shadowplay, Into the Abyss, Rosengarten, The Evil Speaks, and Frank The Baptist. Definitely give them a try when you have the time.
>Anon I know this was more like tongue in cheek. I find it not uncommon for goths to have unconventional hobbies though so I was hoping to hear something interesting.Oh okay. I don't think I have any unconventional hobbies tbh lol.
No. 330693
>>330577I think you completely misunderstood. I wasn’t looking for German bands recs. Just wanted to clarify that I used to only listen to German bands (Lacrimosa, Deine Lakeien, Goethes Erben, Stillste Stunde…) and not the founding fathers like Joy Division.
Upthread somebody recommended the Podcast Cemetery Confession. I recommend the Episode Grufties. That explains the scene here a bit better.
I was wondering something else, how do you listen to your music these days? I used to collect CDs and now I completely switched to digital music on either Spotify or YouTube.
No. 332883
File: 1685798334015.gif (1.05 MB, 499x275, D29D4927-1833-4AD4-B8F3-40CE29…)
Is it just me of do you think Robert Smith is very wholesome? Maybe I just dont understand him too well in interviews kek
No. 334400
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I’m officially offended by this. Black Veil Brides and Ville Valo did a Sisters of mercy cover and it’s horrible. Ville sounds like Jeffree Star?? And I don’t have to say anything about BVB.
No. 334422
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>>334400BVB? Are those emos still a thing?
>>332883I love his takes on the royal family and he's still married to his wife, so I really like him as a person, despite being a scrote.
>>333233I returned my Barcelona ticket for a 2021 tour and never looked bad. I'm disappointed to read your post, nona, I guess he'll never change, he'll keep touring doing shitty performances until he gets bored of it.
>>330035I'd befriend the two women and avoid all eye contact with the men. Although I like the eye make-up of the guy on the left.
No. 334639
>>334420Well damn, that was a pretty crap cover. I actually used to like HIM when I was in high school. I eventually learned they weren't an actual goth band but for a rock band, I have no shame saying that I liked their sound growing up. Ville had a nice voice. However here, it did the song no favors and it doesn't help the original is really good.
I think it's hard when it comes to goth song covers because the goth sound is so unique and it can be difficult hearing them turned into generic rock songs as you miss the eccentricities that define the goth songs.
No. 337052
>>336870I think she was talking about her make up?
I was wondering if the goth anons here shave their brows kek I only do like half and make them thin for orientation
No. 337053
>>336870I think she was talking about her make up?
I was wondering if the goth anons here shave their brows kek I only do like half and make them thin for orientation
No. 337963
File: 1687952686490.jpeg (150.46 KB, 828x1190, 5F270E4A-CA36-4D80-808C-6682F6…)
Anons have you heard anything about Robert Smith grooming a girl? I’m trying to find some more information but there is only stuff on tiktok and I don’t have the app or an account
No. 345547
>>345527I believe his
victims. His shieldmaidens will always aggressively defend him, it’s actually sickeningly pathetic how many women come out and defend pieces of shit like Smith and Depp
No. 345639
I would kill for a goth/industrial/techno club in my province. I miss dancing so much.
>>345623I get completely what you mean. I don't have a local scene either, the last real goths in my city are in their late thirties or early forties and that generation in my area is full of deadbeat junkies. We had a lot of gen Y emos and weebs that have now gone 180, and the gen Z and younger are wannabe e-shits that don't create their own scene because they don't socialise outside. Goth has never been actually popular since the late 90s early 00s here and any so-called revival it's had was nothing but another nail on the coffin.
No. 345782
>>345717I've found that having broad taste is not the same as enjoying entry level everything. I don't only listen to goth adjacent music myself.
The people I'm talking about have a very surface taste in everything, like 3-5 bands from every "dark" genre, usually the most well known stuff and will wear tradgoth makeup with a Pantera shirt and a shein corset and post a Spotify topster with the Molchat Doma song that went viral on tiktok. These people are not 15, they are well into their twenties and compose most of the younger scene here. They also tend to be poly or kinky or genderspecials or all three. I am not the most socially skilled myself but I don't want to be any of these people's cool goth friend to do edgy wood and cemetery photoshoots with.
No. 345820
File: 1692650020488.jpeg (471.25 KB, 566x817, j.jpeg)
>>345782I'm sorry nonna if I am not understanding but it very much so sounds like you aren't juding their character but taste. If they are young they are experiencing the sampler pack of life and if they are older they sound to be acclimating to current situations. You really haven't stated what you dislike about these things or how it has a negative impact on your local community or yourself.I get wanting to hang with people with taste more closely aligned to yours, but having an untrained or unrefined taste in fashion while liking surface level things isn't indicitive of a poor personality or intellectual impairment. Now, if they start taking over your club and playing five finger death punch claiming it's goth, have at them. That would be an actual issue with a music choice and them showing a lack of understanding or maybe being deceptive. Any other time should be fine to listen to the Who or Hu taste varries)>
No. 347022
>>345623>I'm not being elitist but if a person enjoys ex. Lebanon Hanover I have a hard time conceptualizing how they can also enjoy say, Amon Amarth.Eh I dunno anon, I'm someone who likes goth music but also likes non-goth music as well. I can't say I'm huge into Lebanon Hanover but I do love London After Midnight but I can also go to listening to Spice Girls (and yes I know I'm showing my age kek).
That said, I think I kinda get what you mean because something I have notice is someone who calls themselves a "goth" but then mostly only listens to metal and the only goth band they like is The Cure or Sisters of Mercy. They don't actually explore the goth genre of music for all it has to offer and only go with like 2 maybe 3 or 4 bands and call it there while in the same breath, they will go above and beyond looking for more metal bands. Imo, these people aren't goths.
No. 347367
File: 1693808352593.jpg (158.05 KB, 1200x1200, Wednesday Addams.jpg)
I haven't watched the Wednesday show yet because honestly it just doesn't look that interesting to me even though I do like the Addams Family. However one thing that has annoyed the fuck outta me ever since the show came out is all these TikTok girls thinking they are now goth because they liked the show and want to be like Wednesday. Never mind the fact that the character is not a goth at all and they even missed the opportunity to have her dance to a goth song because newsflash TikTok Goffs, The Cramps are not a goth band and the song she danced to is not a goth song neither, it's just annoying.
I mean tbf, the character of Wednesday has been the poster girl for wannabe edgy girls who think they're goth for being mooody but the show just ramped it up to like an 11.
Anyway just a small rant. I'm sure the show was fine but it's just a case of annoying fans and the shallowness some of them can have.
No. 348567
>>347367I enjoyed the show because I went into it without any expectations and knowing that it will never be like the original Addams Family. It's not goth, it's depressed/deep teenage girl from a rich family that isn't just like the other girls. Honestly, there is nothing I can add to what nona
>>348561 wrote, it's Tim Burton being Tim Burton and it's young children like we ourselves once were thinking that one single movie is the essence of goth.
No. 349114
File: 1695033386682.jpg (53.53 KB, 759x347, deleted.jpg)
The OP of Robert Smith Allegations thread on reddit has been deleted, comments are locked as well. Any thoughts?
No. 349877
>>347957AYRT. Yeah I heard that Wednesday wasn't all that great unless you're one of "those" kinda people. I heard that it was just another Riverdale and when I heard that, that is what turned me off from wanting to watch it since I never could get into Riverdale and other darker edgier teen girl shows like Chilling Adventures of Sabrina. I'm still willing to give the show at least a try, like maybe 2 episodes but nonetheless, I just don't like the trend it started lol. And yeah I saw the Killstar dress, absolutely bleh.
>>348557Exactly! I would've even been fine with something much more basic level like Bauhaus' "Bela Lugosi's Dead" or the Cure's "A Forest", or Christian Death's "Spiritual Cramp", just you know just something that was an actual Goth song.
>>348561Don't get me wrong, I know that the show wasn't trying to be goth (and it isn't). Tim Burton himself isn't a goth and he had said as much, his style can just be gothic at times but he has no interest in the goth subculture. MY ire isn't directed at Tim Burton or the show itself, my annoyance is more directed at the trenders who are thinking they are oh so goth because they think Wednesday is a "mood" and want to be like her…
No. 355890
File: 1698676095253.gif (3.16 MB, 640x360, the-crow-the-crow-movie.gif)
Are you celebrating Devil's Night, anons? I am watching The Crow on vhs
No. 356210
>>356189I mean, a lot of times I noticed this happening in places where is full of teenagers, so yeah you're right.
>>356203But I thought that even people who are new to this scene (like me) would be able to discern the bands from each other. Or is it a case of dumb kids just fitting everything in a single box?
Also, Robert and Morrissey slap fight was fake pr? I thought it was real 'cause, especially bc the way it was framed, ofc Morrissey would talk shit since he can't shut his mouth once.
No. 356356
>>356149Because the people are simply uneducated and don't seem to truly know the goth sound because if they did, they would stop fucking calling The Smiths a goth band. It's the same people who call other bands like New Order, Echo and the Bunnymen, and Depeche Mode as "goth" music as well. My guess is they just click some self-proclaimed "goth" playlist on Spotify or something and they see these post-punk and synthpop bands on there and think that the music is goth because the playlist says so kek. I mean I get why it happens with Joy Division even though they too are not goth rock but their style of post-punk was a big influence in developing the goth style so when they get roped in, I believe there is an understanding that we know they aren't actually goth but acknowledge they were a big influence for the sound.
I say this as someone who likes the Smiths mind you but I roll my eyes every time I see them featured in a "goth" playlist and even more retarded when memes say that the goth scene doesn't accept Morrissey when his band was never goth in the first place.
>>356210>Or is it a case of dumb kids just fitting everything in a single box?It's dumb kids fitting everything 80s into goth. I've even some of these ignoramuses call a band like Duran Duran "goth"
No. 356537
>>356356>It's dumb kids fitting everything 80s into goth. I've even some of these ignoramuses call a band like Duran Duran "goth"Well, that's a shame. As I read the whole thread a second time, it's kinda sad learning that most kids aren't invested in researching more about goth music, or rather, any music genre really.
It always is something superficial and since there's no dedication and investment, some scenes start to disappear. I don't know a single person in my town that knows what old school goth is, and most of kids that say they're goth, their style is closer to e-girls and e-boys, and they don't even know the most basic-entry bands.
Now, this one is for all the fashion nonas. I'd like to know a thing - how can you do the classic spiky hair? I tried doing it once but it didn't work well bc may hair is wavy and greasy af and so it gets lumpy and gross.
(I know this is a bit hypocritical and that I just talked shit about kids just focusing on what to wear rather than the music, but give me a break, I'm trying to actually look legit rather than a poser)
No. 357019
>>357016samfag
My bad I meant Gitane Demone. I'm at the start of the thread
No. 370810
File: 1704308588299.jpg (33.21 KB, 775x519, Tumblr_l_1065049449936681.jpg)
baby bat here, have always listened to new/dark/cold wave music (and some basic punk, like pixies/DK as a kid) and have really been into siouxsie, sisters of mercy, ghosting, KMFDM, skinny puppy and other goth/indus bands for the last couple years. i recently started dating a goth girl and she's opened my eyes to the whole culture especially with us going to goth clubs. it's been a lot of fun but you don't really make new friends at those places.
the scene nowadays makes me sad though. im a butch lesbian who got raised in catholic school, up until i literally got kicked out for being too mentally ill (depressed, anxiety ridden, gay). ive always felt a pressure to blend in with alt music subcultures and wear edgy clothes and shit but every alt friend ive made at uni this year buys all their shit off fast fashion sites and mixes up emo music with goth and punk. it's difficult to find ppl my age who aren't kweer or edgy for the sake of looks. i admit ive been guilty of this too but when i was like… 14, 15. now we're 19-21 and it's just drab. nobody ive met wants to mod clothes with me or do makeup together, they just want to go out shopping at cheap "alt" stores. ive even been told it's stupid for me to get into goth fashion if im masculine, or that i look weird bevause of it. wow it's almost like that's the entire point of me dressing like this.
my girlfriend is the only other alt weirdo i know. i really want to get more into goth fashion and form a community but i don't know how. keep going to clubs? keep experimenting with clothing and hope someone notices me? i want to find other freaks/outcasts but it's genuinely so hard with social media identity-crafting and fast fashion everywhere. i feel super alone. i guess i just wanna know if there's any other gnc/gay women into goth music/fashion that have similar experiences to me.
No. 371324
>>>/snow/1951283And let me guess grufti is according to you a different subculture than goth too because "hey, look! a different word"? Not in my opinion. My country was using term "coldwaver" for a goth. It was still the same as goth, still the same as grufti.
Do you know what is the difference between
deathrock, no wave and darkwave or coldwave? Geographical place of origin of term. Just like between goth and grufti or coldwaver. Nothing more. They are not subgenres, they are mostly results of isolation of scenes that developed own vocabulary including different terms for same shit, sometimes of bands or music critics that developed own names too before any particular term won over other in local scene. Just check interviews with oldest bands who actually remember times when these terms originated you will see confirmation of what I just wrote.
Pretending that every new invented local name constitutes separate subgenre we see in some parts of the internet is post year 2000 LARP that originated in so called "deathrock revival circles" in the US. A movement that wanted to be a group of very special snowflakes that started pretending (a la Eldritch) that "they are not goths, they are deathrockers". OK, there was also similar trend in Germany in the '90s when they were inventing new terms to classify their "uh so obscure unique bands" to look cool in black and white xerox zines that only few dozens of their friends have ever read.
Neue Deutsche Todeskunst was one of most "so unique and necro" names for bunch of bands that didn't even had consistent sounding and which you will not be able to classify as anything other than your usual goff band if you were not informed what label they use for themselves. All of these buzzwords you pretend are separate subgenres are not even musical analogue of "What type of goth are you" meme as there was no qualities allowing you to separate these bands in different categories in blind trials.
There is no way of defending thesis that you would tell "no wave band" from "coldwave band" apart other than your handwaving.
No. 371759
>>370810Sorry anon that you're having a hard time but I'm also happy for your that you found an alt weirdo girlfriend. I've been into goth and industrial music since my early teens and I don't have any actual goth friends. My boyfriend is into some of the music, especially post punk and he dresses rather dark and he went to some goth parties with me so I guess he counts lol. Apart from that I do have a rather alt friend group but we are all into different kinds of music (metal, punk, hardcore, 80s synth etc.) with a lot of overlap. I share some single interests with a all them, for instance one is very into obscure and macabre art and antique decor and he likes to decorate his apartment with that, so we like to talk about that stuff, show each other new finds, go to the flea market etc. but overall I'm the only one who's heavily into goth. Since there's no goth scene in my town I'm really happy about these little things. I also grew up in a small village where there were no alternative people at all kek. I used to really wish I had goth friends to go to goth clubs and festivals with all the time but since I got older that urge became less and less.
I don't know if it's a generational problem that you have or if it's the area you live in. I'm a millennial and I never heard such ridiculous things as it being stupid to dress goth because you're masculine. Never let anyone tell you that or let them ruin goth for you. Yeah I would keep going to goth clubs or any alternative music events, eventually you'll find likeminded people. They can't all be that stupid.
No. 372500
>>268690just be aware her music is not Goth music,
Some of her music is overlaping with goth
>>she mostly does (well did) New Wave musicYes, she is indeed strongly within New Wave a.k.a. Post Punk movement. Just like all gothic rock bands does fit in that very broad movement. But so does synthpop or electropunk.
If you are into her music try also Lene Lovich and Daniele Dax.
No. 372618
File: 1704958606737.jpg (117.56 KB, 570x878, 80sNeoVictorianSewingMag.jpg)
>>318851It look tacky when executed by wearing synthetic crap that is predominant fabric of modern female fashion. Females change wardrobe pieces often so they often accept crappy synthetic fabrics because it makes pieces cheaper and they are going to part with that clothing pieces pretty fast anyways.
Males don't accept crappy clothing fabrics because they are wearing their wardrobe pieces till they start falling apart on them.
Female romantic style looks OK when executed with neovictorian pieces from the times like before mid 90s. Neovictorian was a pretty (semi)mainstream trend since like late '50s until early '90s (with peak of popularity around mid to late '70s) so it was pretty easy to get such pieces both new and 2nd hand or find cuts in popular sewing themed magazines. Most of these pieces were "modernized" victorian without ambitions to look more victorian than victorian era that some producers of modern pieces seem to have an obsession with. And they were made with actual cotton/linen more often than not. Viscose is often acceptable looking fabric for that style. Polyester or other synthetic fabrics rarely are.
No. 372619
File: 1704959188801.jpeg (82.35 KB, 571x719, strawberry-switchblade-392e4d5…)
>>372618Speaking of modernization, Strawberry Switchblade duo that is co-responsible for how modern lolita fashion looks (they had 5 min of mainstream popularity in Japan but made enough of inpact on Japanese alternative fashion) had a pretty interesting approach to neovictorian. Too bad their modern fashion relatives from Asia are now suffering a real eye-sore period.
No. 372621
>>372620>>372619>>372618You can also look into 1980s Patricia Morrison that was sporting a lot of Neovictorian pieces at that era.
In this video all three persons - Patrician, Andrew and interviewer are wearing clothing pieces that fit the generic romantic fashion movement (which was a trend that was present in fashion of various 80s subcultures not only Goths or Blitz Kids) without going too "look I'm so XIX century" vibe that often ruins the final result.
No. 372623
File: 1704963793756.jpg (176.27 KB, 1920x1081, Rocky-Horror-Picture-resized-2…)
>>296193>There's a big crossover with LGBT people and dressing alternatively; the punk "aesthetic" is very popular with the nonbinary and trans crowd. I'm not really sure why that is. Punk scene been a long time pretty safe space for being openly LGBT. Leather fashion that influenced punk fashion (and metal fashion trough Judas Priest vocalist[a gay male]) had strong lesbian and gay people presence. Remember that punk fashion emerged as a result of fans of music experimenting with look. It was collaborative effort and it has lended from various sources like BDSM or biker fashion. While it resulted in a certain looks scene itself does not hold monopoly on that look. Ever seen Rocky Horror Picture Show? It was influenced by various undeground fashion trends including very early punk and in own turn it influenced punk fashion too. But also "LGBT fashion" circles. Also don't forget about Drag Queen makeup influences on punk makeup. Take a look at the 1960s(sixties) drag makeup that is also area where you could find for example gay male performers.
>>296205>I'm gonna e honest, it's fucking retarded is what it is. Goth never had anything to do with "qUeErNeSs". Call me a terf, not afraid to speak the truth, this is all just tardism and nevermind that most of these people don't even listen to the music anyway.Depends what do you mean – Goth related clubs in London had for decades a lot of "gender nonconformism" of various degrees. At least Batcave and Slimelight. You can see that in video materials from the era and all over Propaganda Magazine pages. It might not have been the thing in every country but at least in some western scenes there was significant attendance of not your typical straight stereotypically male or female public. Also see paragraph I wrote in response to poster you replied to.
No. 372668
>>337052>I was wondering if the goth anons here shave their brows kek I only do like half and make them thin for orientationSome shave them totally, some keep them naturally bushy, some pluck them, some style them, some shave side halves leaving parts toward the center and draw outer parts at unnatural angles. There is no rules here, just personal preference.
>>271514Early gothic lolita was inspired by western goth - Mana was clearly dressing influenced by Goth version of neoromantic and by synth pop band Strawberry Switchblade (dressing in outfits strongly within neovictorian meets 80s laces and pola dots vein) with actual goth/industrial scene member Rose McDowall. You can also hear gothic rock influences in first Malice Mizer demo. Visually Malice Mizer of earliest days looks very similar to band Garden of Delight. There is some resemblance in sound too. Of course Japan had own goth scene too back in the '80s already.
No. 373231
>>370350AYRT, sorry for the late response but yeah like I said, it would be one thing if she truly was interested in the scene but all the evidence I've seen of her just trying to use the scene for shallow reasoning what with trying to get attention from men to pump up her Instagram and Gaming channel, I do not want to be a part of that. I told myself that if she really is serious, she'll look it up on her own because it's so easy to find goth music these days compared to back then.
>It's weird behavior from a 30+ year old, I can't how she would be successful compared to younger "goth gfs" online. I don't mean to be hateful and ageist saying that, but most men seem to prefer younger girls.That's totally
valid anon because I was perplexed myself. The funny thing is she used to be a scene queen back in the 2000s and she would get a lot of male attention and she was always obsessed with how she looked. My suspicion is that she wants that attention again and saw that "#gothgirl" is the trend now and wants in on that.
No. 373369
>>373238>They didn't do it enough to be considered a "goth" bandIf we are speaking about demo material - depends what is one's opinion on whole plethora of neoclassical stuff from the '90s. I would not have a problem in classifying demo stuff as goth. If we are speaking about all their albums - they indeed moved toward different general sound pretty early in their rather short band's lifespan.
>>373235Switchblade Symphony on their Serpentine Gallery was an interesting band as they incorporated pretty neatly a lot of elements from other genres while preserving gothic rock core. Also Faith And the Muse band also from the USA had it's moments. I mean far more than industrial influences here. In case of Switchblade Symphony - triphop and neoclassical stuff in case of Faith and The Muse with numerous folk influences [BTW eastern European and Balkan goth rock scenes are also notorious for introducing local folk elements]. Most of nowadays musical goth scene is far more conservative soundwise. As for Switchblade Symphony other album Bread And Jam For Frances - that want went pretty far from OG gothic rock but has traces of it's DNA kinda like Siouxie Sioux project Creatures. I kinda see a lot in common between Creatures and that album. Maybe not directly but some general concept and direction of experimentation. Also Chiasm of "Isolated" track fame [it made it to soundtrack of Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines ] was balancing between synth heavy goth and industrial stuff has pretty close "vibe" too. Ha, I see there been a new stuff released in 2019 from Chiasm.
https://chiasm.bandcamp.com/album/reset No. 374538
>>373369>If we are speaking about demo material - depends what is one's opinion on whole plethora of neoclassical stuff from the '90s. I would not have a problem in classifying demo stuff as goth. If we are speaking about all their albums - they indeed moved toward different general sound pretty early in their rather short band's lifespan.Personally I don't consider Neoclassical music as "goth music", just another branch of classical music that happens to be popular with some goths (and just darkly-inclined people in general). So as far as Malice Mizer and "goth" goes, I really only refer to the times they did goth rock
>Switchblade Symphony on their Serpentine Gallery was an interesting band as they incorporated pretty neatly a lot of elements from other genres while preserving gothic rock core.Agreed, that's why Serpentine Gallery was so awesome, it managed to flirt around with other music genres while retaining the core sound which was goth rock. Bread and Jam for Frances definitely went more into the trip hop and alternative side and aside from Tina's singing voice, the album sounds different than Serpentine Gallery, it doesn't really sound "goth".
>Faith And the MuseI've only listened to a few of their songs but I agree with your assessment because they tend to add in folk elements while still retaining the goth rock foundation.
>Most of nowadays musical goth scene is far more conservative soundwise. Yeah I see what you mean here, a lot of modern goth music tends to play it straight with the post-punk fused with darkwave and though personally I don't mind because I do like it, it'd be cool to see some slight experimentation (while keeping to the goth rock foundation).
>ChiasmHoly fuck, I haven't heard that name in a long time lol I remember "Isolated" (heard it on their MySpace page many years ago). As far as that "Disorder" album, I do kinda see what you mean that it had that playful dark "vibe" that Switchblade Symphony had though it doesn't really sound "goth" to me personally, just sounds like EBM with an "exotic" feel to it though I imagine hearing goth guitar strings in it and it would so work but she just doesn't seem all that interested in putting goth into her sound.
Haha this talk about Chiasm made me remember Ayria, another Industrial EBM act from the early 2000s.
No. 374544
>>373377>The Cramps goth?Personally all the songs I've heard from them just don't have "goth" elements in them at all. Historically they were the ones who created the psychobilly genre but psychobilly isn't a goth genre, it's just the combination of punk, garage, and rockabilly drenched with a horror theme in visuals. The only reason why people think the Cramps are goth are either the zoomers who thinks this because it was used for Wednesday Addams (who isn't even a goth, sorrynotsorry) and/or people who confuse psychobilly as goth because they're too focused on the darker aesthetic that many of the musicians adorn themselves in. That said, there's no shame in liking the music, I'm quite fond of it myself.
>Miguel and the Living DeadOh wow, I remember this band kek. Yeah no, they definitely did add goth elements into their music, not all of their songs but nonetheless, that's how they differ from The Cramps who mostly played it straight with the Rockabilly influence in their music. I agree, they were unique.
No. 374672
>>374544Cramps have sometimes guitar sounding akin to what is heard in gothic rock albeit very lightly but that could be explained psychodelic rock part of roots of both genres. Some 70s horror movies psychodelic rock tracks.
Speaking of which "Le Frisson Des Vampires" had pretty moody psychodelic soundtrack that can cause confusion in brains that are familiar with goth but not so much with psychodelic as they have elements that were sported in many goth tracks. When I hear them brain is expecting punk riffing to start any moment. But that of course never arrives. It's like never-ending cliffhanger.
Some bands like Sad Lovers and Giants or The Chameleons have a lot of that psychodelic rock heritage in their sound. This Bosnian band in vidrel from times of Yugoslavia has psychodelic rock influence more than evident. It's 1982 so it's pretty early in whole goth, or how it was called in Yugoslavia (and generally in satellite states of Soviet Union and in Soviet Union itself) "cold wave" bussines.
More modern examples of psychodelic rock heavy influenced bands would probably be Second Still. Their track Recover is dipped in psychodely especially part after third minut mark, notice bass line.
>>374538>Personally I don't consider Neoclassical music as "goth music", just another branch of classical music that happens to be popular with some goths (and just darkly-inclined people in general). Degree of ""neo-classicism" varied a lot. Mors Syphilitica for example were incorporating neo clssicism and operatic singing with rather strong goth.
Sopor Aethernus on the other hand was heavy on noeclassicism, goth rock background of author is evident but is not the main dominating building element, so here interpretations is this within goth genre may vary.
>Yeah I see what you mean here, a lot of modern goth music tends to play it straight with the post-punk fused with darkwave and though personally I don't mind because I do like it, it'd be cool to see some slight experimentation (while keeping to the goth rock foundation).Ye, that conservatism in sound was fresh in early-mid '00s after two decades of heavy mixing with other genres but it gets old after a while when you attended some festivals for several years and you are realizing that many bands are sounding very alike each other. I can still have fun dancing to them in clubs but I have a growing hunger for novelty or at least more creativity.
>AyriaYes, I remember that act too.
Late '90s and early '00s were times of heavy mixing of industrial influences. In Europe Dark Trance was also invading dance floors at mixed dark dancing events where goth was played together with industrial stuff.
No. 382833
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>>382788not even into goth but i agree. i was into punk, and it's the same thing there. the "rules" for "being punk" were so absurd, you look like a fool with your carbon-copy jacket you studded and patched up and 100 gallons of hair spray and gel and all that.
No. 382863
>>382788I don't know anyone who wears it daily. Even IBF admitted to not wearing it daily. Also both of that couple do not wear it daily. Attempts on wearing it daily would destroy skin of most people. During 5 days of festivals (WGT and GPP) in Leipzig it's not unusual to see people going thick makeup only for few first days. Last day or two you see a lot of "potato" no makeup faces.
>>382833Well, goths are still punks just like any other branch of punk. But let's concentrate on that look aspect you mentioned.
I see the point. Ye, sometimes I'm browsing Instagram I wonder why there are so many profile with people who look alike - i mean almost identical clothing mixed with same hairstyle and makeup cliches. But there are also many people who get creative with look. They are risking and it's also not easy psychologically to create something on your own as not following some "common standard" often provokes in them questioning own authenticity ironically.
What I see in clubs differs from Instagram anyway. Ironically I often do not see many of these Instagram goths in clubs or at gigs. They seem to function in separate world. Dunno what is the real reason. Are they unaware of local scene or is their social anxiety too big or they are busy in life with other stuff. I certainly understand too well that univ/collage education can eat a lot of time and energy.
As for dress code scene in my country does not give too much fuck about the way you dress. No one would throw you out of venue for attending it in pair of shorts and Hawaii shirt. And yes, I have seen people dressed more or less like that example. From what I been reading online not every country has that much laid back scenes and in some cases there were examples of not letting in people because of color of visible shoe sole being white or other piece of clothing not conforming to some dress code of the event.
Scenes differ a lot between countries. Let's compare two of biggest European goth scenes which happen also to neighbor each other. That review is of course highly biased and should not betaken too seriously.
Like in Germany it's notorious to see German grufties standing whole concert like they get a stick freshly installed you know where. Not all are like that (especially when they been around for a while) but they have tendencies to behave in very reserved and phlegmatic manner during gigs.
In neighbor to Germany - Poland you would see much more energy in the crowd and mosh pits are not unusual especially in larger venues. Yes, Poles for real would mosh to Peter Murphy singing slower songs of Bauhaus. They did that back in 2018.
To get a mosh pit in Germany at goth gig usually takes some more energetic foreigners. If there is no pit in Poland seeing like half of the public dancing halfway the set list is a commonplace in that country.
Seeing that much energy in Germany is much more rare view and when happens it kinda look like they participate in some military drill as they have tendency to synchronizing everything from clapping to directions they swing their bodies.
Ordung stronk, I guess.
On the other hand Germans often get much more elaborate at the way they dress. And I don't necessarily mean they dress in a way that requires more money (there is big difference in wages in Poland and Germany) - they have a lot of DIY in wardrobes. Maybe they compensate for much more reserved behavior that way. Dunno.
No. 385037
>>374680There were also terms like "indie" used in this video, also you can frequently encounter "alternative" to describe goth bands from back in the '80s.
There were also "swampies" in Australia.
No. 386613
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Do you think there’s something to the idea of a goth mentality? Or goth perspective? Goth philosophy? Like being aware and not afraid of death, being open minded to new things, appreciating the darker aspects of life, etc?
No. 386883
>>386613>Do you think there’s something to the idea of a goth mentality? No. At lest not any more than heavy metal mentality, jazz mentality, italo disco mentality or stamp collectors mentality. Many goths differ in their goth bands taste. There are bands I love there are bands I see as total trash while other goths love them. Goths differ in fashion sense and taste. Some prefer ghastly ghoulish smudgy makeup and wear distressed unironed clothing others accept only instagram perfect lines and counturing done with help of a ruler and an angle and ridicule anything else. Some are skinwalking some famous goth band members some have totally unique clothing and makeup style you never seen before. Some wear just normie clothing in dark colors without any makeup, some look like plain normies when attending events, some follow totally random fashion styles you don't normally associate with mainstream or goths.
>Or goth perspective? What perspective? Goth is diverse in sounding due to different influences of different scenes around the world and music interests of band members. They come from broad social backgrounds. They have broad spectrum of education. Some have higher, some ended ended education at middle school. Some are well paid, some are living on welfare for decades.
>Goth philosophy? Like being aware and not afraid of death, being open minded to new things, appreciating the darker aspects of life, etc?Many goths are afraid of death. Many goths are also narrow minded. There are goths who love visiting torture devices museums and many that would not like being in one at all.
There are goths who are unironically into occult. There are many who see occult as bullshit. There are atheists, there are religious ones.
There are anacaps, there are commies, there are centrists, there are greens, there are christian democrats, there are neo nazis, there are apolitical who don't give a fuck. There are altruists, there are egoists.
There are these who participate in events like gigs and dance nights and these who never been to one and have no desire to even attend them.
There are anorectics, there are morbidly obese, there are body builders and there are ones with below average muscle mass.
There are extroverts, there are many introverts.
Some of goths get rude when drunk, some get even more sad than they are usually. Some don't drink at all.
You could meet goths that you would have a lot in common and could spend hours talking with them and you could meet these you have nothing in common at all, with some you would have no topic for discussion at all and all communication between you that make sense would be exchange of sentences like "cool gig" or "nice makeup" and that would be about all.
No. 387196
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>>386613Honestly no, because you don't have to be a goth to be aware of the reality of death and appreciating the darker things in life. I've met people who love things like darker poetry and gothic literature and horror movies but have absolutely no interest in goth music at all and to me, that is the difference between a goth and someone who is simply darkly-inclined. Dark inclination is kind of a given for us goths since the backdrop for the music is dark imagery and vibe but the music just won't be for everyone.
>>386883>There are bands I love there are bands I see as total trash while other goths love them.You've got me curious, which bands do you not like that other goths do tend to like? lol
No. 387307
>>387196I won't list my "favorites" here but answer in general what are typical "
problematic" bands. There are many polarizing bands here and there in Europe - like German Umbra et Imago, German Blutengel, Polish Closterkeller, Belarussian Molchat Doma, Russian Kino, Czech XIII Stoleti, Virgin in Veil from Finland. Out of the USA I would like to point out that post Rozz Christian Death is also controversial.
Going more general on criticism now. There are goths who do not tolerate metal influences at all. Other goths can't stand synth centric bands. Others have issues with bands if they "sound like carbon copy of Sisters of Mercy". Others have issues if band uses drum machine instead of live drummer. Some have issues with dumb lyrics sometimes entering full blown graphomania zone especially if mixed with attitude of being deadly serious "we doin real art bro" style. You know - kitschy but not in ironic way. Imagine a redneck in trucker cap and cargo shorts in restaurant on black tie event who acts like wearing a white tie grade outfit. Yes, there are examples of THIS nonironic kitsch among bands.
No. 387838
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>>283110Around 15 years ago there was a lot of confusion what goth is even in English speaking sphere. Industrial and even metal (Type 0 Negative, Nightwish) were often called as goth. Things were even more complicated outside of English speaking countries. I was actually unaware that I was liking goth songs up until my very late teens. They were often played on the radio up until even mid '00s. The fact that no one was using term goth toward them did not help. No one was using that term as these were mostly '80s songs and in this part of world back in the '80s term goth was unknown it was called Cold Wave or New Wave (and that New Wave did not mean stuff like synth pop or happy guitar post punk - New Wave meant here back in the '80s exactly the same that Cold Wave). Fans of cold wave were using term "punk" as self identification. Yes, just punk. That additionally complicated things. Up to this day I sometimes meet these punks who been around gigs and festivals in the '80s who are surprised when term goth is used toward local bands and some who did not had a contact with scene since like middle '80s even when referring to UK bands like Bauhaus, Siouxie and the Banshees etc. It was all Cold Wave to them. It was term they were familiar. Usage of term "goth" came much later where they been busy with other stuff in their life so they never been operating with term "goth". It sometimes creates funny dialogues when two people from different generations are talking about same music but are unaware of that because each operates different definitions of same terms.
No. 387841
continuing
>>387838Lemme play some songs of local tribe back from the days where cold wave movement was rebelling against communist order
No. 387960
>>387838>>387841>>387842>>387844>>387847>>387849>>387850>>387912>>387914Ily fellow Polish
nonnie. I think it's cool that the Polish "goth"/cold wave scene was so political. It adds more weight to the subculture although as you said it was lumped with punk. I'm a zoomer and it's kind of sad that other "goths" my age usually don't know any of this music. I've had some acquaintances insist how it's important to listen to the so called goth music but it didn't go beyond them listening to The Cure or The Sisters of Mercy or sometimes
o zgrozo Closterkeller if they cared about Polish music. It's sad that cold wave is lost on them because it just adds to the homogenization of culture. Surely it's much more genuine and interesting when each country's scene is unique. Nothing wrong with being interested in western, English speaking bands only but it does come across like there's twitter/tiktok influence at play. Perhaps it's just the crowd I've ran into.
You can probably tell that I'm kinda bitter about this, so I'll stop.
No. 387977
>>387960Goth was as you phrased that "lumped" with punk as goth is a form of punk just like hard core is punk, crust is punk and other mutations are punk. These labels originated later than music trends itself. Some trends were uncoordinated and emerged in many places around the world because well some ideas would be realized by different people around same time because they are pretty obvious development. Adding a lot of reverb on vocal is not a rocket science and you don't have to listen to any Joy Division or Bauhaus album to do so. A lot of spookiness of goth rock comes from psychodelic rock that was a strong trend in rock music of the late 60's and in the 70's. Sometimes influence was direct, sometimes it was trough krautrock. You can also hear influences of reggae in a lot of Bauhaus stuff including "Bella Lugosi is dead". Other widespread technique was umm "adding noise" chaotic patterns, notes, random noises on frets. New York "no wave" scene was notorious for such stuff. South Californian "death rock" was also doing similar stuff but in own way. I'm using apostrophes around "no wave" and "death rock" because I want to highlight that these names were not defining the sound in any way not limiting creations of bands, they were not names of genres but way for people participating in the scene to say "you know, our music we are doing around here and we think we have some amount of characteristics in common but we are not aiming for uniform sounding so we may differ in way we play, we also tend to use that name for foreign bands who approach music in similar manner". Just compare Christian Death and 45 Grave. They are not that similar in approach to music. You can for example hear surf rock elements in 45 Grave, Hammond organ, church organ parts etc. Both from o called "SoCal Death Rock". Same time people in California was referring to Bauhaus as Death Rock too.
British Specimen was full of glam rock sound. Which was not that widespread among other bands. Alien Sex Fiend while staying within what we see today as gothic rock had a lot of elements typical for early industrial.
Most of early goth bands were founded by people who were into 70s punk or already had story of participating in that scene. It means they been attending gigs of other bands and other bands knew them and their music. Punk crowd was not that big in size in early days and people were notorious for sticking together as they were standing out of generic crowd like a sore thumb. Amount of venues where band could play was very limited. That was also a thing in Poland in the '80s. Every band was affected by music members liked and what other local scene bands been playing and general history of rock music in given place of the world.
What we today see as "separation" from punk is mostly a result of the fact that as fan base grew and new bands came to the scene they tended to hang around fans of similar sounds and similar bands. Not because someone decided "we are separate genre now, let's stop talking to others".
A lot of confusion and attempts on "creation of separate goff genres" is a result of not understanding the history of goth music and rock music in general especially what was happening in rock prior to formation of goth rock scenes. You for real can hear a lot of stuff we associate with "goth rock sounding" in many different rock stuff from the 1970s.
No. 388624
>>388530
>but I hardly ever see these young'ins go beyond the basic 4 and I hate to be "that" person but it makes me wonder if they are really into goth or just into it to make TikToks.There is one simple test for that - do you ever see them at gigs or at club nights.
On side note have you seen cases of zoomers going to events then to nearest mirror, taking selfies and leaving venue?
No. 389946
>>389276Kek Okay fair point, I'm not that old but I'm not in my 20s anymore and I don't stay up as late as I used to is all. I guess switch "age" for "energy" kek.
>>389808That's awesome to hear anon. Nice to see that there are more zoomers actually participating and not being some trend hopper trying to become "goth influencer"