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File: 1713590087131.png (1.21 MB, 830x832, Capture d’écran 2021-03-05 à…)

No. 372209

This thread is for discussing historical figures from a fan perspective:
>fanfic or fanart of historical figures
>shipping them with yourself or others (m/m, f/m or f/f all welcome)
>simply shitposting about them

this is about dead historical figures, not living people or fictional characters.
please don't start arguments about husbandos or fujos or cringe. ignore and report bait.

serious history thread: >>>/m/271005
historical lolcows thread: >>>/ot/650010

No. 372215

File: 1713590944471.png (1.23 MB, 1079x1630, kawaii.png)

>>372209
Thanks nonny, this thread idea rocks. I am more into American history than European history, but saint just was so fucking cute. He guinely looked like some animu bishie.

No. 372216

File: 1713591059968.jpeg (885.6 KB, 1536x2048, IMG_3515.jpeg)

i found picrel on tumblr and ngl im a little jealous. i understand husbandofags now

No. 372222

>>372209
Kek amazing thread pic

No. 372237

idk about this, I'm fine with minor memes but I do think there's something kinda offensive about shipping who actually exist and making light of real events where millions of real people were affected.

No. 372238

File: 1713594893981.png (869.64 KB, 657x438, IMG_5402.png)

>>372237
sorry you don't like it but please hide the thread instead of coming in to argue.
i should have added something about moralfagging in the op.
>>372222
ty anon. kinda wanted to use picrel but kawaii naps seemed more topical

No. 372264

I disagree with the decision but a similar thread was already created and locked by farmhands a few days ago.

No. 372312

>>372264
That was my attempt, nona. I made the mistake of it being too niche so it was shut down. This one is much more ideal.

No. 372313

File: 1713622524742.jpeg (266.79 KB, 2048x1152, IMG_6557.jpeg)

>>372209
Anyway I’ve been waiting long enough to spam my favourite 17th century eurofag fanart and paintings kek let’s fucking go

No. 372314

File: 1713622802456.png (462.2 KB, 584x597, IMG_0941.png)

Found this fanart when I was googling for my upcoming exam and thought it was pretty cute

No. 372315

File: 1713622828573.png (201.25 KB, 599x708, block5small.png)

I love this thread. I still miss Hark, A Vagrant! (at least she never nuked her website so you can still read the comics). Kate Beaton made me want to learn about history.

No. 372317

File: 1713622924630.png (156.88 KB, 759x295, Ida.png)


No. 372318

File: 1713623645303.jpeg (397.11 KB, 2048x1733, F8ZHRa1a8AAlcJc.jpeg)

>>372312
Yay! Thank you my nonnie, hope this one is allowed to stay up. Here's some Hephaestion/Alexander the Great.

No. 372319

File: 1713623701224.jpg (68.38 KB, 828x662, father_and_son_by_capelinssm_d…)


No. 372320

File: 1713623770191.jpg (117.54 KB, 828x671, sappho_and_erinna_by_capelinss…)

Sappho and Erinna

No. 372321

File: 1713623797726.jpg (79.43 KB, 828x697, alexander_and_hephaestion_in_h…)

In the Hindu Kush

No. 372333

My question is why can't they just an OC in that era> rather then using names and quasi-likeness of real people.

No. 372338

>>372333
My question is why you’re asking that in the historyfag thread for historyfags and not some discourse thread on /ot/

No. 372348

File: 1713629162302.jpg (119.49 KB, 524x1024, Eih5aDaUYAEiYWc.jpg)

>>372333
historical fiction using actual existing people as characters has existed for centuries. do you think the three musketeers is disrepectful to louis xiii or something? (don't answer that, take it to the discourse thread).
>>372215
robes/saint just is peak. there used to be an lj comm called sexandthecomite lol
i love that pixiv has shitton of kawaii robespierre art. westabboos stay winning
>>372313
i love historyfag artists wwith hyperspecific interests. i follow one on twitter that's into voltaire and frederick the great. i miss when phobs did ivan the terrible art too. the napoleonic fandom on tumblr is thriving as well i do wwish there were more nelsonfags tho

No. 372360

File: 1713630498686.jpeg (125.25 KB, 840x786, IMG_6550.jpeg)

You can’t just vaguely mention these artists and not name them. You’re killing me here, nona.

No. 372361

File: 1713630563699.png (15.63 KB, 981x549, IMG_5899.png)

Feels appropriate to post this here

No. 372362

File: 1713630724957.jpeg (2.57 MB, 4032x3024, IMG_5500.jpeg)

Saw this gorgeous piece at the Wallace collection a while ago. Yaoi is everywhere for those with the eyes to see

No. 372477

File: 1713675994556.jpeg (309.09 KB, 1046x938, IMG_3525.jpeg)

>>372360
idk who you meant to replyto but the frederick the great artist is peanutMGA on twitter
>>372361
that's the way i like it ngl. yeah i live historical accuracy but soletiles to have to make it a little more palatable.

one of my fave historyfag artists was tookunami/aminoscribbles who drew a lot of napoleonic era ppl, but she seems to have wiped her entire online presence. such a shame

No. 372494

File: 1713684446283.jpg (183.04 KB, 1115x647, kawaii war two.jpg)


No. 372508

File: 1713690082089.gif (2.86 MB, 400x224, IMG_1058.gif)


No. 372609

>>372494
churchill going KYAAAAA! is sending me

No. 372610

>>372494
even at 12 I would have realised how offensive this would be.

No. 372636

File: 1713727184829.jpeg (29.71 KB, 312x341, lol.jpeg)

So is this thread just for shipping historical figures with each other or can I talk about my huge crush on someone who has been dead for more than a century?

No. 372637

>>372636
yeah historical crushes/husbandos are fine!
(btw where my napoleonfags at)

No. 372640

>>372494
This was probably made as a joke, but I've come across sincere WWII shippers before, usually focusing on nazis.

No. 372688

>>372317
I miss Kate Beaton

No. 372689

I remember pre-bunker we had a thread like this in /ot/. Good times

No. 372690

File: 1713750509957.jpeg (391.77 KB, 1622x2048, IMG_1608.jpeg)


No. 372691

File: 1713751026409.jpeg (97.8 KB, 736x721, IMG_0115.jpeg)

can’t let gang know I fuck with this

No. 372694

I just made a shitty edit of my historic husbando based off of one that I saw a girl make for Franz Kafka. I sent it to my friends because it felt sad to make it and have no one to show it to (and I'm not going to post it on fucking tiktok or something). Anyway I hope they don't think I'm a freak lol. It's normal for them to share stuff about their celebrity husbandos so I feel like it's only fair that I get to share mine, but obviously one of these things is more socially acceptable than the other.

No. 372697

>>372694
pls share anon

No. 372699

File: 1713755102475.png (1.35 MB, 1080x1080, VAPORGRAM1639360708540.png)

>>372694
pls share i live for that kind of edits. i love making them with napoleon

No. 372704

File: 1713759077023.mp4 (773.57 KB, 720x720, 439070302_7389860014460291_767…)

>>372697
>>372699
Here it is kek. It's so fucking dumb. I do love the Napoleon edit. It evokes a sense of beauty and melancholy… I'd love to see more if you have any!

No. 372723

How do you guys feel about Hamilton fujos?

No. 372729

File: 1713766665275.gif (3.88 MB, 1080x1080, VAPORGRAM1639249928033.gif)

>>372723
the actual historical guy or the cringe musical? They're basically compeletly different charactr at this point
>>372704
omg anon the effort that went into this. i love it.
the napoleon edits were made using a vaporwave app and quotes from his letters to josephine. i call it naporwave

No. 372734

File: 1713769112253.png (766.13 KB, 1080x1920, RHLC0Gv.png)

>>372723
The Hamilton fandom (from general fans to shippers) has aged poorly more than any other fandom community. I think it originated from a period of american liberal optimism that no longer exists. Currently everyone (and I mean everyone) really despises America, from hyper wokies, moderates, and even the right. so a glorified fan-fiction that portrays america in a positive light is not likely to be popular today. The cope from the remainder fans is simply accepting that the characters from the musical are basically OCs(picrel is fanon Hamilton meeting the real Hamilton). The only sub-section community that remains genuine is the subreddit, but that's mainly due to artificial means thanks to the moderators

No. 372741

File: 1713772981799.jpeg (99.67 KB, 615x800, IMG_4981.jpeg)

Since we’re posting historical crushes… the loml x

No. 372743

File: 1713773043577.jpeg (3.07 MB, 4032x3024, IMG_5470.jpeg)

>>372741
The second loml… painted by the first loml… kek

No. 372745

>>372741
>>372743
shouldn't this just be posted on the regular historical crushes thread

No. 372746

>>372729
The musical, kek.

No. 372814

>>372729
Bahaha, Naporwave. That's great. I know we've had a few Napoleonfags over the years, were you one of the original ones? Was there a specific Napoleon moment that turned you into a Napoleonfag?

>>372734
Was the musical actually any good? From both a historic or entertainment basis. I think I watched the first thirty minutes, but I couldn't be bothered to finish it. I completely agree with your sentiment though. It's insane how much things have changed from 2015 to now. Something about the way that musical is presented has not aged very well to resonate with the times. On the contrary, Stephen Sondheim's Assassins has aged quite well in my opinionI personally don't mind Hamilton fujos though lol. I love when women can be cringe and free.

No. 372819

>>372814
>Was the musical actually any good?
I mean the songs were good but I've only watched the animatics of the musical and it seems like that was what the majority for the fanbase as well. But from a historical perspective it's pretty bad. I understand the intention of lin-manuel miranda, as the whole concept revolved around american progressivism, so the british characters were played by white actors speaking with a faux-old english accenst, while the Americans were played "pocs" who spoke more contemporary. Again the musical promotes a sense of American exceptionalism and it inaccurately represents certain historical events, for example IRL King George was barely mentioned and the grievances of the colonists were mostly directed towards the Prime Minister Lord North and it's just a cultural shirt where people don't have a lot more hatred towards american liberals and progressives.

No. 372974

File: 1713825302597.jpeg (37.61 KB, 275x271, 1605305777877.jpeg)

>>372814
i've been openly napoleonfagging on here for a couple years i'd say. there defenitiely used to be several of us, i hope the others are still around
i became a napoleonfag by accident. i'm forst and foremost a nelsonfag, have been since i was a kid, but before i learned how to read english, it was very hard to find stuff about him in my native language (french) and most of it was in books about the napoleonic era jn general. so i eded up gradualy warming up to naps. i like him as hotshot young general bonaparte more than the flabby ol' emperor tho
>>372734
i don't rly consider hamilton fans historyfags per se because the hamilton characters may as well be OCs and most fans donnt actually gaf about the actual 18th century alexander hamilton, only the musical guy. but im biased bc i don't care for musicals and i hate lin manuel miranda

No. 372981

File: 1713827979455.jpeg (71.97 KB, 359x720, IMG_8606.jpeg)

I would like to thank cybird for making a game where i can date my actual dream history husbando mozart

No. 373030

>>372981
What are your thoughts on the movie Amadeus nonnie? I always thought his portrayal was cute aside albeit manchildish

No. 373035

>>372981
This might be a stupid question, but how accurate is bishie Mozart compared to the real
Mozart?

No. 373037

File: 1713844758636.jpeg (959.67 KB, 1203x1291, IMG_3538.jpeg)

>>373035
not at all, not eveb the clothing is remotely accurate.
hinestly i dinnt mind bishifying historical figures but i draw the line at completely inappropriate period clothing.

No. 373145

>>372981
What do you think about Mozart's music? I'm a big sucker for it 'cause Cherubino is my OG husbando/waifu and at some point it extended to slight mozartfagging.

No. 373393

>>372981
you're probably already aware of this but he had a shit fetish. he would exchange letters with his cousin and mother about how he wanted to shit on their faces and vise versa, he also wrote a music piece called lick mein arsch

No. 373484

File: 1713969079414.jpeg (637.51 KB, 3687x2905, GGjH9sHa0AArjNN.jpeg)

Love some communist husbando

No. 373546

>>372361
To be honest I love this, men being yassified for my entertainment is how the world should always be

No. 373714

File: 1714044334782.jpeg (219.84 KB, 1170x560, IMG_6720.jpeg)

>>373393
‘Bait used to be— WHAT’

No. 373715

>>373484
Who is this nona?

No. 373717

>>373715
nta but its el che guevara

No. 373792

File: 1714065464610.jpg (231.57 KB, 925x1260, Joseph_Desire_Court_-_La_Fayet…)

>>372819
This song single-handedly made me obsessed with Lafayette(that would later exceed my Hamilton obsession).

No. 373794

>>373393
He didn’t have a shit fetish he had a very juvenile sense of humour and thought anything related to poop/fart/butts was hilarious. Part of his arrested development from being a child star I guess

No. 373942

File: 1714124639063.jpg (651.41 KB, 1967x1400, 1000024438.jpg)

Napoleon and his marshals highschool/university au

No. 373947

>>373794
Kek me and my best friend have this same kind of crappy humour and I'd be mortified if after my death, someone read my texts with her and thought I had a fucking shit fetish. Ew.

No. 373948

File: 1714126877675.gif (5.79 MB, 493x280, O3qh8.gif)

>>372814
I'm one of Napoleonfags as well, but it's been years since I posted any Naps content here. He's my forever husbando, though.

>>373942
>that POS Bernadotte, but no Lannes
intothetrashitgoes.jpg

No. 379102

File: 1715436047385.jpeg (72.67 KB, 507x718, lenin loves cats.jpeg)

Idk if this is real but I just want to believe it

No. 380908

>>372610
wahhhh sotp moralfagging

No. 380910

>>372640
naziploitation has been around since ww2 lol. honestly it's a prominent root of a lot of gay culture (like tom of finland's art). so no wonder fujos grabbed hold of it in the 21st century

No. 380943

File: 1715573726615.jpeg (609.52 KB, 1200x1641, 38qUGek.jpeg)

>>380910
Erich, mein beloved
He and Joachim Marseille are shipped on Tumblr and you can find fanfics of them

No. 382003

>>380943
I was looking forward to having a historyfag thread on lolcow only for you guys to start naziposting. I’m not offended, just bored… this was so predictable.

No. 382035

File: 1715728848077.jpeg (161.13 KB, 767x1200, QmMGodr.jpeg)

>>382003
No, no, this one was repentant and had nothing to do with the mistreatment of Jews. He was only a flying ace in the Luftwaffe.

No. 382036

File: 1715729520484.jpeg (22.18 KB, 517x410, OQuzbKV.jpeg)

>>382035
Samefag but also Hans-Joachim Marseille (the other Nazi) hated Hitler and played jazz music ("Black music") on the piano in front of him, was decidedly against the Holocaust, and befriended non-whites/Germans.

No. 382037

File: 1715729783526.jpeg (154.06 KB, 852x1412, XRFsdZt.jpeg)

>>382036
The black man in the picture is named Mathew Letulu, a South African prisoner-of-war. Picrel adds more context, I wanted to highlight him as well without deleting the other post

No. 382040

File: 1715730852095.jpg (91.28 KB, 600x800, BarrPeach.jpg)

>>382037
Awww I've read about this! People commented that the two would often go on long walks and were more like friends of the same age, than master and servant.

>>382003
Yes, because every other place has been shit up by moralfags. I can't even enjoy Marseilles/Hartmann fic on tumblr because the ppl shipping them are concerned about pwecious pwonouns and have lists of DNI. Please can I enjoy them here in peace without having to 'umg disclaimer about gendies' kthanksbai

>>380910
Try the 20th century, Donna Barr was drawing WWI-themed BL in the 1980's for women and gay friends.

>>380943
Can you share screencaps of the fic, nona? I want to read but I also have trauma from DNI gendies and don't want to wade through that kind of thing.

No. 382041

File: 1715730902769.jpeg (80.42 KB, 750x1128, SRDUNa0.jpeg)

Also a stunning lack of women ITT. Here is my historical waifu, a suffragette. I've made AI gens of her, both polite and otherwise

No. 382043

>>382040
I can go looking for some of them for you. I hope they didn't get deleted because I quite enjoyed them as well.

No. 382048

>>382041
>I've made AI gens of her, both polite and otherwise
sincerely hope you're not implying you've made porn of this dead woman without her consent

No. 382053

File: 1715734436619.jpeg (28.84 KB, 561x728, mOv8yFB.jpeg)

>>382048
If artsy nude images count as porn then I guess, and yes without consent because I don't have a ouija board kek. But if it gives you any consolation, I've done it to my historical husbando as well and have more pics of him than I do of her. There's no difference between that and writing porn fics or drawing porn of historical husbandos/waifus. No need to be a moralfag over it

No. 382055

File: 1715734658676.jpeg (64.38 KB, 954x1021, 4lgjoaj.jpeg)

>>382053
Women ♥

No. 382056

File: 1715734822821.jpeg (20.43 KB, 288x428, EPUjvVw.jpeg)


No. 382060

File: 1715735212345.jpeg (200.56 KB, 1106x1668, 1NpQmyX.jpeg)

>>382056
Picrel is Stable Diffusion(ai shit outside of containment )

No. 382064

File: 1715737501977.png (147.2 KB, 320x420, IMG_3798.png)

>>373948
lannes and junot are great. love pairing them with naps.
bernadotte might have been a filthy traitor but he did pretty well for himself in the end. i respect the hustle. same with talleyrand

No. 382071

Alas, it hurts my soul knowing that my historical loves are all dead.

No. 382212

>>380943
I remember artists/writers like rubidus-hepta and aus-der-traum on tumblr that would write/draw all manner of naziploitation lmao

No. 382237

>>382040
you use moralfaggotry like it's some perfect gotcha, there has to be limit and lines you should not be allowed to cross

No. 382263

File: 1715785551359.jpg (184.31 KB, 1200x858, fashionhistoryedwardianfashion…)

There's very little information about my husbando out there so as a way to feel closer to him I've been trying to learn more about the time period he lived in, watching shows set in that era, etc. Sadly there are no colored photos of him, so I try to look at what other people wore in that era and try to imagine what his clothes would have looked like (it's not hard because there's only one outfit to imagine- he only owned one suit lol). The hardest part is trying to imagine his voice though. Absolutely no way in hell that I'd be able to guess what he sounded like and I can't find any descriptions from others of what he sounded like either.

No. 382268

>>382263
Who's your husbando nona?

No. 382296

File: 1715789894660.jpeg (120.71 KB, 1022x1024, ZWx0woR.jpeg)

>>382237
Fuck off newfag. Imagine moralfagging on an gossip imageboard. Had I posted historical male AI ""porn"" I'm sure you'd be quiet as a church mouse, but every mongoloid "radfem" here thinks that female same sex attraction extends to holding hands and giving each other kisses on the cheek. I don't care about your retarded "line" and I will continue to "cross" it whenever I feel like. You act like I've just spammed the thread with my entire fap folder, but you're only getting worked up over hypothetical images you've never seen or know exist. If you want me to post them so bad you only need to ask (but in the AI thread cause jannies got mad the other time KEK)
>>382263
>>382268
Well now I'm curious too. Drop the pics!(infighting)

No. 382300

>>382035
This guy looks both cute and ugly at the same time

No. 382322

File: 1715791266874.jpeg (41.39 KB, 640x445, husband.jpeg)

>>382268
>>382296
I posted about him earlier in the thread so I hope I'm not being too repetitive, but it's Leon Czolgosz who assassinated William McKinley in 1901. There are only a handful of pictures of him that exist and there's so little information about him (they executed him pretty shortly after the assassination), but I am very endeared toward what I do know. I've been trying to read and learn more about the Gilded Age since that was the era he grew up in. Typical quiet, loner type who was depressed and didn't want to work (relatable). He became enamored with anarchy after hearing a speech given by Emma Goldman, so she introduced him to some of her friends in hopes he would join the cause. He ended up being such a sperg about it that they thought he was a spy sent from the government and they posted a warning ad about him in their magazine kek. I could go on and on about him honestly.

No. 382377

>>382296
i just think it’s cringe and disrespectful to make lewd images of a suffragette. it’s as bad as males making porn or writing waifu-esque fanfiction about anne frank. also yeah, if it were a guy i wouldn’t care so much, for reasons that should obvious if you think about it for more than ten seconds. hint hint it isn’t men who risk having their faces placed over porn clips whenever they post selfies online

No. 382382

>>382377
All suffragette means is someone who sought out women's suffrage through violent/militant means. Plenty of them were racists, imperialists, fascists, did not care much for feminism outside of getting the vote, etc. etc., including the one you're caping for. A lot of "good" people in history were not very "good" in many other aspects, which is why it's dumb to moralfag in a history thread.
Also
>Anne Frank
is underaged, so yeah it makes sense to call that out. I'm sure many normies think it's cringe and disrespectful to hang out on a website dedicated to making fun of neurodivergent, mentally ill or stigmatized women, so what are you going on about? There's no porn in this thread, and no one has mentioned anything about porn except for you.

No. 382387

>>382382
just kys(alogging)

No. 382414

First it was the Nazi complainer and now it's infighting over AI. The posts were already banned, it's not that deep anon(s). Just drop it and let anons sperg about their waifus/husbandos in peace

No. 382435

File: 1715805184730.jpeg (161.06 KB, 1004x573, IMG_3514.jpeg)

anyway. any other age of sail fags on here or is it just me?

No. 382581

File: 1715842234745.jpg (88.57 KB, 668x447, tumblr_m6m9wfTvJ11rn2dmao3_128…)

>>382435
I used to love Hornblower as a teen. I still like Age of Sail even though my interest has drifted towards the Romantics.

Tell me more about your husbandos or ships, anon. Or literal ships!

No. 382625

File: 1715860007202.png (979.93 KB, 752x1430, fs.png)

does this count?

No. 382633

File: 1715861891590.jpg (Spoiler Image,110.82 KB, 499x711, Manfred_von_Richthofen.jpg)

>>380943
>>382035
>>382036
German Flying Ace being wholesome challenge - impossible edition

No. 382635

>>373948
where is this from?

No. 382636

>>382581
who are these two?

No. 382639

File: 1715863877159.jpg (459.57 KB, 1024x1552, Albert_Ball_portrait.jpg)

>>382633
Manfred, my beloved. I'll see you von Richthofen and raise you a twink named Albert Ball. (although if you like the infantry, 2/3 trench poets were in canon homo with each other.)

No. 382641

File: 1715863948560.jpg (87.89 KB, 661x521, tumblr_m6m9wfTvJ11rn2dmao2_128…)

>>382636
Hornblower, a book series/drama with very high budget. One film a year was made. The men were very very hot and there was good ho yay between the leads. The one in blue is the MC, a seasick twink who wants to be a naval officer, and the one in red was a one-off character whom the entire fanbase proceeded to lose their shit over, going so far as to name him 'slutbunny'.

No. 382675

>>382435
Not so much the age of sail, but I do like the heroic age of Antarctic exploration, if that counts? Pretty similar

No. 382685

>>382435
Me! I love Hornblower and the Aubrey-Maturin novels. I also got into the Franklin expedition because of that AMC series about it. The Age of Sail fandom on Tumblr is sadly overrun by gendies, so it’s nice to find other women who are into this stuff without the other nonsense.

No. 382686

File: 1715881240130.jpeg (81.51 KB, 1280x720, 843245667.jpeg)

>>382639
He kind of looks like this

No. 382743

File: 1715893687898.jpeg (28.8 KB, 540x685, MayYJsB.jpeg)

>>382675
hey they're still heroic dead royal navy blokes so they count
>>382581
im not a husbandofag but i like a lot of historical ships. i couldn't reamly get into the hornblower/ aubrey stuff because i very much prefer the actual historical people, especially nelson and co. also im probably the only nutjob on earth who ships brueys/nelson

No. 382846

File: 1715924560401.gif (6.82 MB, 493x280, XhR5a.gif)

>>382635
Segments of some Russian documentary on Naps. Can't find the title now, sadly, even though I had it somewhere at one point. I'll try to look for it in my spare time.

No. 405011

>>382635
>>382846
Late, but I found it. The actor playing Naps is Yuri Chursin, here's the info on the film (weirdly enough, I couldn't find it on IMDb): https://yurychursin.ru/1812

No. 432018

File: 1731533324178.jpg (31.04 KB, 481x620, Portrait-of-Alexander-the-Grea…)

I need someone to make an anime bishie version of alexander already. I know there is the one from reign but he doesnt count because the artstyle is hideous.

No. 432052

File: 1731540604155.jpg (164.87 KB, 670x878, William_Frederick_Havemeyer.jp…)

Can anyone tell me why a major public figure would have no other pictures of their family? This man! had a wife and 10 children and no photos of any of them. I used to browse through collect old daguerreotypes on the library of congress because i became obsessed with them. He was the Mayor of New York before the civil war. I somehow developed a crush on a DEAD MAN!! I wonder what his ghost is doing now. So hawt.. How can a dead guy be that attractive?

No. 432058

>>432052
autism

No. 432064

i remember one time i was reading a book for a research paper in college and i fell in love with the author just because of the prose and the dude was long dead. but now i cant even remember what the book was or even what research paper it was for
had to be a history class tho



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