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it's funny, china being the wealthiest and most developed country is actually historically normal - china being in turmoil/less advanced than europe from 1700-2000 is really just a blip…
What I dont get is, how do other Americans think the US is even going to stay on China's level, when they have 1.6 billion people and we only have 300 million? We literally have like 3 real big cities vs dozens in china. The us needs to be accepting as many immigrants as it possibly can, especially since US-born americans are getting lazier and more entitled by the day. I would much rather my taxes go to free housing & education for refugees than to white losers who already had opportunities and failed. The US can basically keep scooping up the world's best and brightest as long as we keep our doors open and dont let the bubba brains take power again.
No, that's just you. I'm assuming you're Western.>Japan and South Korea IMO have more vibrant cultures than this country with 1.4 billion people
Kpop and anime aren't culture. Read a book.
Maybe the feeling has to do with most Chinese citizens using different social media so you don't see or hear as much about what they're talking about.
>The odd thing about China is on how little people care about it outside of geopolitics/economics
this is westerners with most countries
What does SK's culture have that China's doesn't except for less censorship in movies and TV shows? Their current cultural production is extremely similar, often based on what works in Japan. As for history, Korea had most of its tradition originated from China.
Korea just has to export it to the West/SEA/Japan doesn't because their inner market is way smaller than China's.
NTA but compare Taiwan to Mainland China. China absolutely destroyed their own culture and history during the cultural revolution while Taiwan preserved it. Taiwan is what China would be if Mao and CCP didn't fuck it all up irreversibly and Xi continued their work to make the country into a dystopian hellhole.>>797143>Their current cultural production is extremely similar, often based on what works in Japan.
Yes, that's the point. China of today relies only on copying what other countries do. It's literally their whole business strategy, to rip off products and sell it as their own.
I'm neck deep into following China's shenanigans but I feel like this board will just attract "reeeee how dare you racist weebs hate poor oppressed China" type of tankies who unironically believe everything CCP puts out.
Yeah well how is Korea different? The current cultural output of Korea is also extremely based on what Japan has been doing. Numerous shows and films in both countries are based off Japanese novels or mangas, and let’s not even talk about kpop kek
Nobody here is reeeing, you’re the one that came and shat on a very interesting country by saying that it is full of cultureless robots, which is xenophobic for no god damn reason. I think we’re all accutely aware of how present censorship is, you’d have to be blind not to see it. The obvious reason why shit is always getting censored is because some Chinese people try to push the boundaries. Also try to read webnovels, you’ll find a ton of very interesting shit and they get less censored than movies and dramas.
There are cows in China but generally for different reasons and not that exciting. There are smaller websites but they are rare because there is real name registration for domains so they host abroad. There was a wiki (a bit more like ED?) to track cows, but it was taken down and some users were arrested (I think there was a lot of doxing/human flesh search and illegal things).
A lot of online drama revolves around idols and celebrities. People spend years working to get moderator positions on websites relating to idols they hate, and when they get mod powers they delete the groups or cause other chaos.
I don't care about China's pop culture. I couldn't give less shits about their webnovels or movies or pop music or whatever. The fact is that they destroyed their own culture by considering it regressive but put on a show for foreigners with whimsical ethnic clothing and drone shots of choice temples. Meanwhile the country is now on its way to becoming North Korea on a larger scale and nonchalantly murdering their minorities to assimilate everyone into being Han, their economy is based on ripping other innovations off and creating counterfeit products, they unleashed a global pandemic by trying to hide it for months instead of reacting, their own people are being oppressed by the government and shut out from the rest of the world. Everything you do to support Chinese creators ends up supporting the CCP because that's where all the money and power ends up going to.
The cultured Chinese people you meet online are part of the Chinese diaspora from other countries or Taiwanese, you very, very rarely meet mainlanders interacting with foreigners unless it's government hired wumaos or privileged rich kids. Sure, all countries have a culture. But China consciously decided to run down thousands of years of rich culture they had developed as an ancient nation in a few short decades. You're honestly better off stanning Taiwan if you want to support traditional Chinese culture.
>>797583>human flesh search
Eek. What a creepy name.
>and not that exciting.
idk, sounds like pretty juicy drama to me. Maybe I'm just yearning for some totally fresh gossip. I would have loved to take a peek at that wiki
I read that about Japanese culture.
Apparently after the marriage and children, the wife stops giving a fuck about sex/intimacy and the husband is free to seek sex elsewhere.
I don’t really understand what you are after. Yes, China is a dictatorship, we know. The cultural revolution happened. A lot of buildings, temples and artifacts were destroyed or sent to Taiwan, but many were preserved too or rebuilt, you just don’t see as many people genuinely praying inside cause religion got squashed for good. It’s not like Chinese people have collectively forgotten their ancient history. Actually you’d have to be pretty blind not to see that Chinese people are fascinated by their own history and culture, and that’s why things were rebuilt, not for foreigners lmao. That’s why very few things are translated and you have to know some Chinese to understand what’s going on : China is actually one of the most self-centered country in my opinion.
It’s not the 70s anymore and now it’s not ancient history the government is trying to suppress. It’s recent history, the modern transformation of China that is policed, current cultural trends, everything you say you don’t give a fuck about basically.
Like in every modern country, the average person is more interested about pop idols and reality tv than ancient cultural history lmao. If you read a tiny but of Chinese, you can easily encounter very interesting things about Chinese people in China. Sadly, censorship and the iron grip of the PCC gets in the way.
I'd say that when it gets big the drama is pretty juicy. Zheng Shuang's recent scandal is insane. But I interpret >>797583
as saying that celebs in China are held to a much stricter standard of morality and behavior than in the west so they try to keep everything under wraps. Also like in other east Asian countries with an idol industry crazy stans go crazy.
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I don't know why this is as good as it is. It on theory should be the most boring crap ever, battle after battle with a million different names to remember, but I remember it fondly.
The Monkey King/Journey to the west is literally shonen shit though. Dragon Ball is VERY close to the source material.
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there's some really good chinese cinema (try zhang yimou or jia zhangke), some excellent writers (mo yan comes to mind), a good contemporary art scene, and the also have shitloads of manhua and light novels and shit.
it's really reductive to say the produce "nothing worthwile whatsoever", try having some culture besides pop singers lmao
Yeah actually I have watched both Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon and House of Flying Daggers, I enjoyed those. What I meant was more recent media, like from 2010 onwards. Most of all it's the amount of (what appears to be) worthwhile media coming from China being disproportionally low considering the population. >>798318
Thanks, I'll check those out. Any light novels that have English translations you'd recommend?
I recommend In The Mood For Love
and for Hong Kong cinema, Hard Boiled
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What have you even tried to watch or read before saying there is nothing worth your while there? I swear people if you want recommendations for Chinese media to check out or if you want info on what it the state of mainland cinema compared to Korea and Japan, you can simply ask instead of being cunts!
Especially if you don't know some of the most famous Chinese directors, you're just coming off as completely uncultured. They >>798318
get nominated at film festivals all around the world, they aren't underground or anything. Mo Yan has a Nobel price. Pic related is one of the most famous Chinese movie ever.
Yeah I'm sorry for the cunty original post. I'm not a fan of China as a whole for separate reasons so I guess I had a bit of a negative bias going on. That's no excuse to word things that strongly though, especially when it's just about media.
Seriously thanks for all the recommendations, I'll check them out for sure! I guess I am pretty uncultured because most of these I'd never heard of.
Fine. We just had another poster saying similar things yesterday so it pissed me off. Disclaimer: I am not Chinese. Would love if others complete my answer.
The quick on mainland Chinese media is that censorship is omnipresent. And it's not like the gov explicitely says what is forbidden or not. Chinese creators have to skirt around the restrictions. The famous directors that were mentionned all dealt with that. The censorship is not only about politics, corruption, but also nudity, drugs homosexuality, anything the censors don't like basically. Some artworks go through, some don't. Farewell my Concubine got a few scenes showing violence of the CCP censored, but Summer Palace which deals with full frontal nudity and Tian An Men revolts was completely banned. International outcry used to make the CCP reconsider its position, now it's very unlikely.
Generally speaking, the more people can easily access you art, the more censored. TV shows on state TV are uber censored, shows on webplateforms a little less so. Movies are less censored cause less accessible to the general public, then books, then web novels where you can go quite far. Web novels are absolutely booming in China, a ton of the most popular ones get a drama adaptation, and gets toned down in the process. For example, The Long Night is about corruption. In the novel, the corruption is from members of the CCP quite high in the hierarchy, in the drama, they are at a much lower rank and the higher ups are fighting corruption. (I recommend it cause it is so short: 12 episodes).
You also have to consider the idol (actor) industry. China has a booming entertainment industry, with numerous extremely popular young actors with few acting experience. Studios favor doing inane love dramas with these very young pretty actors as there is more potential for an actor to get famous and start doing advertising. Trends come and go very easily: it's a young industry so everyone is copying the neighbor to try to make a quick buck. IMO the standards are getting raised little by little. Movies are generally more serious and have better acting.
China also produces a lot of content. A lot. Thousands of shows and films every year. No wonder most of it is shit.
The censorship bureau acts like the organization that delivers the audience ratings in the US. Basically every film/drama is expected to go through rounds of censorship, and this is well known. Other medias get censored when they get reported on the Internet (for example, ao3 was recently banned state-wide because of mass reporting by an idol's fan community). If the film was censored before release, no you can't find it. It's like the film isn't done until it goes through censorship.
The censorship bureau's criteria is unknown, sometimes it even bans trendy topics like "palace dramas" or "rap competitions" because too many were made in a short time or becoming too trendy. After a few years, the ban is lifted and the IPs can come out. Chinese censorship is super reactionnary, you can often see it happen in real time. Something happens with potential for nuisance -> gets hit with the banhammer. It's less like 1984 than people often think in the West.
So yes Chinese people are aware of the censorship. Are they upset? Such a complicated question. The thing is that it is even more impossible to generalize what Chinese people think than any other group of people. Not only is 1.4 billion people hard to even represent, but discussions on the Internet are heavily censored and very hard to understand if you're not fluent in Chinese and up to date with the slang.
>I don't know how the situation is in practice but trying to release a movie about Tianan Men Square seems like it would be really serious.
From what I gathered it's not illegal to make a film that can cause "political disturbance", but it's illegal to publish it without the approval of the censorship bureau. So technically Lou Ye, the filmmaker that made Summer Palace, was banned from making films for 5 years not because he did the film, but because he put it out for international film festivals "without approval".
>Wow, that sounds like such blatant propaganda the way they just obviously changed the higher ups from villains into heroes.
Haha your reaction is fun! The show was considered quite daring actually. (There is a scene that depicts something I have almost never seen even in Western media!). Maybe I didn't explain it well, it's like instead of being about a corrupted state governor, it's about a corrupted town mayor. And there is a state governor that appears a few times to say "We need to serve the people!" so they don't get censored lol. There are more and more movies and dramas criticizing certain parts of authority (corrupted officials, injust laws, shady businessmen etc) but there is always a CCP higherup that is on the side of the good guys or that realize he is mistaken.
>Is the show as good as the book or am I better off reading the novel?
Both are very good, but the book is much darker, as usual. You can find the drama easily on iQiyi, subbed in English, for free.
>The idol industry with lots of cheesy love dramas sounds a bit similar to what's done in SK and Japan.
Exactly. It's directly inspired from Korea's idol system (which is inspired from Japan's). It's fairly recent in its current iteration, like 2010's recent.
If you want to see the best from China as mainlanders see it, I recommend using douban, the chinese rating website. I feel like Chinese people have good taste (probably because law of averages) so anything high rated (>9) is really worth a watch.
Jesus anons, this is some tankie thought patterns at full force. Historically my people were scammed into defecting to the USSR because they thought the news about it being horrible there was just "western propaganda". Turns out they bet on the wrong horse and fascist dictatorship being bad isn't just western trash talking.>M-my mystical amazing azn communist country can't be t-t-that bad, c-c-can it…? It must all be western propaganda!!
The Chinese government literally tries to silence people from other nations, the recent case of a Swedish journalist being threatened by the CCP and the Swedish government being too chicken shit to do anything about it should've been a wake up call to everyone doubting if China really is as bad as they say or if it's just a meme. Jack Ma disappearing after criticizing the CCP and coming back only to put out an "apology video". Constant propaganda being uploaded to TikTok with hired Caucasian actors pretending to be American/British (while having an obvious accent and reading from a script) to brag about how much better their life is in China compared to their original country. The ongoing genocide of uighur people China denies but bans all products that tell them to stop using them as slave force. The stories aren't sensationalized, the more you look into how batshit insane the CCP is the more you'll realize it's not just le evil western media "sensationalizing" what's happening. The country has taken a huge dip from "somewhat fuctional post-communist state" to dystopian dictatorship during Xi Jinping's reign.
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There is no "yes or no" answer. The US will us propaganda on China, but so will China. The US has committed war crimes, but so so has China.
You'll most likely have to research propaganda techniques to understand what each country is saying about each other. Also most propaganda isn't obvious bad faith actors, but misinterpretation of facts, hiding of stories, etc etc. It's rare for something to be fully fabricated >>798506
No one was talking about China being 100% good or bad. The OP anon said China was bad, but the US was a bit biased.>they bet on the wrong horse and fascist dictatorship being bad isn't just western trash talking.
Yes the USSR was bad, but a lot of fake anti-USSR propaganda was published in the USA. You do know about the red scare? A country can be bad, but also have propaganda against it. >he Chinese government literally tries to silence people from other nations
Again nothing new in the USA. Journalists are extremely afraid of the US gov retaliating against their studies>https://www.aclu.org/report/liberty-monitor-all-how-large-scale-us-surveillance-harming-journalism-law-and-american
this. people who fall for propaganda will talk the most and act like they care, but the reality is they don't care enough to even do their research. god forbid they see something that challenges their beliefs and forces them to realize that they were blindly believing in propaganda.
obviously that doesn't mean the ccp is wholly innocent, and no country is. it's just that it isn't the first time the u.s. has put out propaganda against a country that challenges them.
I have no suggestions for you. But in general the reason we don't know jack shit about Chinese culture or media is because there's no effort being made by Chinese ent companies to market it towards the west. China with its huge population can keep their media untranslated and unavailable to the west and still make a shit ton of money because 1) There's a lot of Chinese people and when you've got fans, Chinese fans are dedicated as hell and 2) it's more worthwhile to continue milking money out of China domestically than to try and market things overseas where it's unknown whether or not westerners will be receptive (see: Wonder Girls, BoA, any other Asian entertainer that has tried to break into the west). Occasionally there are some attempts at going global but I really don't think it's for the money necessarily, I think any attempt at spreading Chinese media is simply cultural pride.
Now Korea on the other hand is a tiny tiny country with a miniscule domestic market. Back in the day, companies in charge of dramas and idols were still trying to target overseas markets like Japan and China. Then the west caught on and now there's a big need to appeal to that because arguably a lot of kpop or drama fans are foreign. Some movies are really that
good (Old Boy, Parasite) but I think in part the reason we know of legitimate Korean media aside from idol groups and cheesy dramas is because there's always an effort to export their content overseas since the domestic profits just don't cut it.
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>>798515> Give me one good reason why I should believe their claims about a genocide now when there is nearly no substantial evidence of that which holds up under scrutiny.
Curious as to what the argument is against the actual accounts from women who have been gang raped and forcibly sterilized in the camps or the people who have witnessed it. Are they not credible because they were interviewed by CNN and the like?https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/18/asia/china-xinjiang-teacher-abuse-allegations-intl-hnk-dst/index.htmlhttps://bitterwinter.org/rape-in-xinjiang-camps-the-tibetan-precedent/https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7546833/Chinese-muslims-reveal-rapes-abortions-forced-sterilisations-concentration-camps.html
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What got you into Chinese media? You seem quite involved and knowledgeable. I have many Chinese movies in the backlog. I really want to start Jia Zhangke but I know it would depress the hell out of me. I especially loved Edward Yang's stuff. It's disappointing that he died without making more stuff.
I recently got into 20th century Chinese history. However horrible Mao was, it is still impressive that he was able to unify such a massive nation. It was a nation run by local military warlords and feudal lords. It was quite barbaric that he got peasants to violently overthrow landowners. It's no surprise that some of these people grew up to be ruthless in life. China has so many dialects that are relatively intelligible to one another and a lot of the country was illiterate. He was able to force a unified language and also change written words to something that is easier to learn and write.
I'm not kidding when I ask this but was Mao retarded? He has the worst economic policy I've ever seen unless he was deliberately planning to sabotage the nation. From a macro/labor economics perspective, you've got him killing thousands of scholars and high skilled workers because they were too educated to submit under his rule and whatever other ideological reasons they apparently violated. I kek'd reading how he'd send promising young men to work in the fields when every other world leader knows what a major opportunity cost that is for economic growth
So anyways is this what tankies support? If yes then I truly have no words.
Yeah, he seemed like a child dude with typical zoomer behavior.
Funny thing is, I knew his sister prior; way before they even knew the other’s existence. She was a gothic Lolita weeb pretending to be half Japanese and I totally believed her back then lol
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Except Pooh Bear got to where he is because he kissed CCP ass and went to college in 1975 when he finally could receive an education again. By this experience alone, wouldn't he know how Mao's China devastated his own upbringing and family? His sister committed suicide and his father got taken away. I feel like this is probably the case for most older Chinese people but then again I see the CCP peddling a bunch of pro-Mao shit constantly (see the Lee Hyori Mao cnetz controversy) so I'm confused where people stand with actual
opinions on Mao.
Do any China experts know? Is Mao viewed as not responsible for the turmoil? Picrel is what happened to the general Chinese populace and what happened to Xi Jinping.>>799844> If the country continued with Mao's communism, it probably wouldn't be the superpower that it is today.
Anon no need to soften the blow for tankies, it's safe to say that the economy and the country would be utter shit if not for the turn around.>>800090
In the short term, okay, you have no one that speaks out against you. But in the long term? Fucking disaster. You deliberately are putting the economy and the nation into a state of macroeconomic inefficiency leading it into famine. You killed all of the scholars and probably have nobody (economists or analysts) to do the math to make sure that on a nationwide scale that the agricultural sector is efficient enough to feed the nation. Not to mention how big of a role environmental issues have on domestic agriculture and environmental issues are often an extraneous variable that you can't control in many cases although Mao's policies even brought on one themselves–see the Four Pests campaign where they killed 4 major groups of 'pests' to fuck over the ecosystem kek. But understandable seeing as they probably killed everyone with an education or at least a critical thought who said that trying to wipe out an entire species might be a bad idea!
I watched the first one (the one with Cai Xukun) but I couldn't keep up with the rest, these shows are too fucking long (I don't ike the censorship but I appreciate the state coming down on dramas' running time, now every drama is 36 ep instead of 50+). So I am not that up to date as I've been busy, I've seen this Russian guy memes but not much else.
On the first season they even blurred an entire participant until he was kicked off! I think because it came out he was a bully. But being cancelled in China is intense, brand or person. I didn't follow too closely what happened here, but for example when Dolce and Gabbana had their racist ad scandal, every celeb was dissociating themselves from the brand almost overnight. The dual citizenship thing I can understand. There is less of a consensus than you might think, I actually recently learned my country doesn't recognize it offically. Of course on the show it's most probably an excuse to kick him out if his parents are doing illicit business.
The lack of Taiwanese particpants is interesting, well see if it's a one-off thing. Actually the everyday reality of the relationship between Taiwan and Mainland is one of the things I still don't quite understand…>>800519
Can't generalize of course, as I said China the most ungeneralizable place in the world, but the "70% good 30% wrong" legacy is still a good way to put it. I heard it from several people IRL too (younger, educated and willing to talk about politics). Mao's biggest crimes are acknowledged IMO, like who defends the Great Leap Forward? But Mao isn't seen as a bloodthirsty dictator like he is now in the West, and attacks on Mao are still delicate, whether it's because current CCP still is based on his legacy, or because his legacy is really extremely meaningful to China and a lot of Chinese people. So who knows what the old ones who lived through it really think? I can't really answer that.
And Lee Hyori form what I see it's simply because c-netz blow everything out of proportion in general but even more when China (by proxy of Mao, founder of modern China) is perceived as being attacked by a foreigner, rather than any kind of political statement.
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A bit of a necro and autistic sperg soz.
Why is there this idea that the CCP is a machivallian genius state that plans in the long term? Even people like Henry Kissinger push this idea.
I've read up on communist China and I just don't see it. When you read up on modern chinese history you actually notice the CCP is always concerned about the short term and acts like a paranoid schizo. Limiting economic development to SEZ hence turning them into smog infested shitholes and tanking your own demographics doesn't seem like good long term planning to me. If anything the Chinese state is so unsure of itself that it cannot effectively plan for the long term due to the party's need to save face. That's why the highway system in Guangdong was ripped up after only 8 years, because they were so afraid of criticism from the conservative wing they limited the funding. Xi semi-revived Maoism and keeps a small faction of conservative Maoists at the ready in case there's an economic downturn and he has to switch base. This isn't efficient and it doesn't really bode well for the long term.
All the stuff wrong with western economies is found in China a lot worse. They're not going to take over the world or ever challenge the US, they won't ever challenge the US dollar. Their debt problems are worse than the US, their Keynesian monetary policy inflates harder than the US and they're addled with a whole bunch of unproductive zombie corps ran by calcified conservative boomers.
When you read books from the 70s published about the Soviet Union, you see the same misconceptions. "The Soviet commies are fanatic and motivated, their leadership is focused on the long term, the west is lazy and decadent and only focused on TV". When in actuality there was a whole lot of contempt by the Soviet people for their government and the USSR burnt through foreign reserves to prop up their shitty country. It's just a rehash of the same paranoida.
Anyone with a fully developed prefrontal cortex realizes that ccp is run by insane, triggered
, dumb moids and is only working because they censor internet and dissapear wrong thinkers into concentration camps. It's 3rd world with first world aesthetic and tech. Even cities are built without drainage so they get floods, it would be better to live in a mud hut.
I don't see what's y'all problem with "necroing the thread" It exists so people can write whatever they want here. If you want a forum with one boring thread make your own ffs.>>968240
and this is correct.
>>942583>SEZ >smog infested shitholes
Aren't the worst places smog-wise in the north?>>968223>serpentza
I feel like almost everything good was preduced decades ago though. Xi's ascension and the subsequent media regulations haven't been good for China's creative output.>>968240
Germany is third world too for you I guess? With climate change floods will soon be anywhere, anytime.
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>>972953>They" (US) "teach" (manipulate) us to be passive
I just watched this video and I'm guessing you mean the lady at 5:57? But she never said that. The takeaway I got was that she's taught by her culture to avoid confrontations.
Also, are you always this worked up over the opinions of some randos on the streets?>>972959
Show me some better testimonies then.
Doesn't help that 99% of the reporting on Xinjiang originates from a schizo who doesn't speak Chinese, nor uses professional translators in his "research" and thinks God Almighty is telling him to destroy the CCP.
>>972865>Aren't the worst places smog-wise in the north?
Yeah around the Chinese rustbelt. But regardless, the SEZ just exacerbated the class differences in Communist China. Anyone outside the SEZ areas are treated like retarded country bumpkins, which is ironic in a Maoist peasant nation.
Also a bit of a schizo speculation. But I think China clamping down so hard on their ethnic minorities is due to the west, who bends over backwards to appease their minority populations, rioting and destroying statues during the BLM movements. Chinese boomers are sensitive to that shit because many have trauma from the cultural revolution, and the two share a lot of similarities (youth stirred up into a frenzy by the media, iconoclasm and social criticism). They look over at what's happening in the US and think "huh, we don't want that, how about we just keep ours on a firm leash".
I don't think Genocide is the right word, I don't think it can even considered an ethnic cleansing like in the Yugoslav wars
more of a cultural eradication, destroying what makes the Uighurs well Uighurs, suppressing their language, religion, ethnic identity and their history as well