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File: 1462998947003.png (136.5 KB, 650x827, 1462997710874.png)

No. 91604

>>Sex abuse victim in her 20s allowed to choose euthanasia in Holland after doctors decided her post-traumatic stress and other conditions were incurable

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3583783/Sex-abuse-victim-20s-allowed-choose-euthanasia-Holland-doctors-decided-post-traumatic-stress-conditions-uncurable.html

Was she justified, farmers? Is trauma enough reason to off yourself?

No. 91605

I read this article this morning and if you actually read through it yourself you'll see that she wasn't just some depressed girl that was tired of life. She was severely anorexic, completely bedridden, self harming, and so mentally traumatised from her abuse that none of her psychiatry team believed she could ever be cured. For all we know this could have been a woman like Coldness in My Heart who'd sliced herself up like a ham and was living every day in agony from the pain of starvation and the complications that arise from it.
She could have been a little girl that experienced molestation, or her experiences could have been savage vaginal and anal rape every day for the years to the point that she experienced perforated bowels which began leaking shit into her cunt and a prolapsed vagina. We don't know.

At any rate a person's life is their own. If a person truly wants to die and has a valid reason backing it, the state has absolutely no right to intervene. None of us have any choice in how we come into this world, we need to be afforded some dignity in how we leave it.

No. 91607

>>91605
But the state actively aided her in killing herself. How do we know there won't be treatment availible for her in the future?

No. 91608

>>91607

What right does any governmental body have to forcefully sustain a person that is in extreme physical, mental and emotional pain and has issued a clear desire to die?

Why is it when animals are sick we put them down as a mercy, but humans that are so sick they are beyond any form of reprieve or cure, we hook them up to machines that artificially sustain them, pump them full of drugs so that half their time is spent in a delirium and the other half in agony, and then we call this "humanity"? That's what's really sick.

It's not the state's decision, they're not the one suffering so they don't GET a say.

No. 91613

>>91604
I know realistically nothing could have been done to take away those pain and memories.

I just wish the people who sexually abused her could have been 'euthanized' first. Sexual abuse can "kill" a person and turn them completely into somebody else.

No. 91616

I'm absolutely okay with that, I do believe that life is not always worth living, and it's not like she has been executed by the state, it was her choice.
She really seem to have had a miserable existence It's a bitter sweet ending but at least she doesn't have to live a life of suffering and she could die peacefully. It's good that she didn't have to kill herself alone at home, in a violent manner

>>91611

Maybe she had improvement but she relapsed anyway ? Maybe she still felt terrible. Idk.

No. 91620

>>91618
But in the end, she is the one who decided to die, not the doctor, the doctors only confirmed that she had valid reasons for wanting to be euthanized.
For me it's a matter of freedom of choice.

No. 91623

I can't find any other source and the daily mail is a really shitty source.

No. 91631

>'It almost sends the message that if you are the victim of abuse, and as a result you get a mental illness, you are punished by being killed, that the punishment for the crime of being a victim is death.

Uh, no. It says that if you are in unbearable pain, you can choose to end it with dignity instead of having your body hanging in a closet.

No. 91634

I think they should have the right to do it, but I still feel like there's always something more to try. Especially when the issue is psychological or neurological, rather than something clearly terminal like metastasized cancer.

Did they really try everything? Did they try injecting her with experimental drugs? Did they try giving her MDMA, LSD, DXM, etc.? Electroconvulsive therapy? Hell, even something like a partial lobotomy? (Not all lobotomies are necessarily zombifying like historic ones.)

Would any of that helped? I have no idea. But for someone in such a dire state, I think anything is worth trying.

No. 91635

How can you read this and not hate men?

No. 91643

>>91635

fuck off tumblr

No. 91740

>>91604
This is the saddest thing I've read in awhile. I think most (if not all) women have gone through some kind of sexual assault or trauma and a lot of us learn to live with it, but I think there are some things so horrible, you just can't get over it. A lot of women develop EDs or alcohol/drug abuse…

It goes to really show that we need to stop this at its source so no more victims can appear. So sad. We need to teach people (esp men) not to rape/sexually assault people. I think it's shit it needs to be taught, but it does.. I mean, look at those refugees from Syria and how much trouble they're causing in Germany and Sweden.

No. 91741

>>91608
>Why is it when animals are sick we put them down as a mercy, but humans that are so sick they are beyond any form of reprieve or cure, we hook them up to machines that artificially sustain them, pump them full of drugs so that half their time is spent in a delirium and the other half in agony, and then we call this "humanity"? That's what's really sick.

Agree with this. It's so sad either way.

>>91613
This society needs to take sexual assault and rape more seriously. I feel like it's a damn joke to most people, especially in the courts. We need to prevent it from happening to begin with.

No. 91748

>>91604
From how her state was described in the article, it sounded like she wasn't really 'living' anyway. With mental illness, I really believe that it's incurable in most cases, at least to some extent. Especially if it's a result of trauma, you just can't ever forget it. You either learn to deal around it, or you can't, and who could blame you if you couldn't?

At least with euthanasia, she went peacefully and painlessly. I hope she can rest in peace.

No. 91750

>>91740
According to RTL nieuws the trauma specialist said she was improving.
Then she started starving herself, dropped 10 kg in 2 weeks, and then the treating psychiatrist decided to approve euthanizing her. It seems they hadn't even started treating her for an eating disorder. They hadn't tried everything possible to save her.

>>91741
The Netherlands has issues with dealing with abuse in general. Often it isn't taken seriously, or reporting does little to nothing. Whether it be sexual abuse, child abuse etc.

No. 91751

>>91750
That's messed up. I know little to nothing about the Netherlands and how they treat trauma patients, but if they truly did nothing to help her, it's really not right at all.

No. 91755

>>91740
>We need to teach people (esp men) not to rape/sexually assault people. I think it's shit it needs to be taught, but it does..

Don't people already teach that? Not trying to start an argument because surely it's different in each country. But I think people who rape don't really care if it's wrong to do it or how much they are hurting somebody. How can you even change these people?

No. 91756

File: 1463044429552.jpg (14.03 KB, 338x270, Throwing-Out-Trash.jpg)


No. 91757

>>91755
I think it's more important that victims are encouraged to report it, that the cops take it seriously and actually investigate. If it's difficult to get away with it, actual abusers and rapists will think twice.

The reporting system in the Netherlands is flawed. I talked with a police officer about it. They categorize reports by who reported it. Multiple people could report the same person, but that won't be visible in the system. So multiple people could call on a parent who is abusive, or a loverboy (human trafficker of young girls who are forced into prostitution), or whatever.
The police is understaffed, underfunded, and the report system is flawed. So many reports are "lost" or not followed up upon.

I know a girl who reported a loverboy together with some other girls, but the police never even talked to the guy.
I myself reported potential child abuse, neighbors did too. Never heard about it again, so I asked how that could happen.

No. 91762

>>91755
You don't. It's just a mealy mouthed way of avoiding the fact these scumbags need to be executed.

No. 91764

Wow this is fucking tragic. I hope her rapist burns

No. 91769

>>91764

The real travesty is that statistically he probably never received punishment.
My abuser never even went to prison even though the way he was finally caught out was after he went to an employers house to fit a kitchen and the wife walked in on him diddling her toddler.

Our society is still largely operated by men who, by their nature, automatically assume that all sexual activity is good sexual activity, thus many can't fully understand why somebody being on the receiving end of said sex, the thing they all strive to attain, could possibly be traumatised by it.
Hence why when you hear stories of young, teenage boys being abused by females all the comments on news articles are some variation of "Corr get in there lad!" or "they didn't have teachers like this when I was a kid!". You only need to take a trip to /r9k/ to get an idea of how the dregs of society feel about rape, that is they don't it seriously at all because "it's just sex, get over it. Just be happy they didn't murder you and move on", "you're already giving it away to Chad every weekend anyway, what's the big deal".

Obviously this doesn't just fuck up female sex abuse victims but males too.

No. 91772

>>91635
I agree
>>91643
Go get raped then whore

No. 91776

>>91772

I think you are infinitely retarded and a disease to society.

No. 91777

>>91772
>I hate every man because rapist
>Women who disagree with me should be raped

No. 91781

>>91777
Women who disagree with me usually like being raped. How can you not be disgusted by that shit?

No. 91794

>>91781
Nice b8 m8. Fuck off. Seriously.

No. 91795

I think if you anybody feeling they exhausted their options and feeling justified should be provided a painless way out. It's not like we have a shortage of humans anyway. This stupid taboo about suicide is just made up religion bullshit.

No. 91796

>>91604
oh I need this

but no because 100% of them are just suicidal and you're just feeding their illness, but if transsexualism is allowed why not this? but this is great. Thank you OP. I see light in life again. I am incurable and because of this my life gets worse and worse so I need this.

No. 91797

>>91604
but wait why is she anonymous? and the sauce is dailymail? as much as i think its wonderful for sickfucks like me too bad its probably fake.

No. 91798

>>91795
And here we have the edgy atheist! I am an atheist too, but if my, lets say sister, killed herself she is also killing me. You cant just be that selfish! Although I do think if you're an old lady suffering from cancer or something you should be allowed tbh.

No. 91803

>>91798

>lets say sister, killed herself she is also killing me. You cant just be that selfish!


>somebody should force themselves to stay alive even though they're in pain because it benefits me emotionally


Are you fucking retarded.

No. 91804

>>91797

>why is she anonymous


Why do you think. Not everybody wants the personal details of their life and death blasted around the internet. Do people not retain any expectations of privacy any more? Why do you need to know?

No. 91806

>>91798
You're selfish for thinking she owes it to you.

No. 91808

>>91795
They hadn't exhausted their options.

No. 91809

>>91808

Obviously the medical professionals treating her believed she had.
Are you a medical professional Anon? Where did you study? What's your area of specialty? I trust you knew this woman personally?

No. 91810

>>91809
The trauma specialist said she was improving.
Then her psychiatrist saw her, and apparently she lost 10 kg in 2 weeks, and decided that she should be allowed to be euthanized. They hadn't even tried treating her for an eating disorder.

I actually read more than just this article. I looked up the articles from my own country, with all the information.

No. 91811

>>91810
Are you mentally ill, anon ? Most people who are learn after some time, they won't recover. Maybe, they'll somewhat improve, but they still will be in incredible pain for the rest of their life. It's crazy to ask these people to stay like this for year hoping for being better when they don't even know if that's possible. It's way easier to handle physical pain than this stuff.

No. 91813

>>91810

Anon at the end of the day, this woman was suffering and wanted to die. How is that any of YOUR business.

No. 91815

>>91810
She was improving and she then relapsed, are you mentally ill? You seem to take this story very personally, no one is saying that we should kill every mentally ill person, but she apparently was in great distress and suffering and could not handle life anymore, they gave her the possibily to leave peacefully.

No. 91839

>>91806
>>91803
>instead of going to the psychologist to improve her life my sister should be allowed to kill herself
>if she kills herself I will potentially kill myself and become depressed too
>when I think its selfish of her to kill herself
I get called retarded. is this what liberalism does to people folks? It is NOT okay to just kill yourself and it has nothing to do with me owning her life it has to something to do with not being an asshole. Fuck off plz and dont encourage perfectly healthy people to commit suicide just because they have mental issues (although the girl in the OP could make an exception)

No. 91843

>>91839
No but if your first thought when someone close to you dies is not 'I'm devastated, they were an amazing person' but 'how DARE you kill yourself and leave me, you're so selfish' then I'm sorry but that's not normal.

No. 91847

>>91839
Are you dumb? Perfectly healthy people don't want to kill themselves. I think you're probably underage and never had to face any struggle. When you're in real pain, it's nowhere near selfish to want out. I think it takes courage to face death and admit that you just can't do it anymore. It's really vile of you to think your entourage should live just so they don't hurt your feeling. They're not NPC, you know, they can have things going on besides you.

No. 91850

I think it's shitty that people like her and terminally ill patients don't have the right to off themselves here tbh.

You should be able to die with some sort of dignity

No. 91855

Sometimes I feel like the only one who doesn't support euthanasia on the internet. This news is just terrible.

No. 91856

>>91855

Oh how fast you would change your mind if it was you or a close family member that was suffering from some intolerably cruel, agonising disease.

I suppose any pets you have that get sick you keep artifically alive and in pain as well.

No. 91869

>>91855
If someone is truly suffering, they should have the right to end their lives. Especially if they are an intense pain or at the end days of a terminal illness.

No. 91875

>>91855
I completely disagree. If someone is feels they do not wish to carry on anymore, be it from a physical or mental illness who is anyone to say they must live? I think it's selfish for society to force someone who has decided that they wish to die to continue living.

From the outside it may seem irrational that anyome may wish to end their life, but that is not our problem. We aren't the ones with insight into the struggles that the people who choose assisted suicide are.

No. 91876

>>91808
You are aware that when it comes to physical health, continueing treatment can be pointless and cause more harm than good? Why force further traumatising treatments on a woman who has rationalised that she wishes to die, do you think she personally has to continue suffering and living for YOUR benefit? That's odd to say the least.

No. 91878

Europeans don't give a shit about rape, do they? Whenever I hear about some fucked up rape story with little public outcry, it's always in Europe.

No. 91882

>>91878
Yeah, these stories tend to be swept under the rug. It's pretty shitty.

No. 91883

>>91878
What would you propose we do? Burn our bras and scream male privilege like you faggots? Rape is taken very seriously here, but when someone chooses to confess after 5 years then there's not much that can be done. Besides, you can't really help a person as unhinged as this lady.
Thirdly, Dutch people are faggots.

No. 91894

So if assisted suicide is officially allowed even when they are just psychological problems I bet you the suicide ratings will drastically go up. I think it's a good thing to do, we should get rid of useless people. But I think only good people deserve to be buried in the ground so we should be cremating such people. So yes! It's justified!

No. 91897

How many of you guys have ever experienced true pain?
I don't mean like a heavy headache or a broken bone, I mean serious, agonising, writhing, clawing-at-the-wallpaper suffering.
For anybody that has experienced this, you'll in the moment likely have experienced those thoughts of "kill me, I'd rather be dead, please just make it end". Then you need to imagine that there is no help for you, the help has been applied and none of it is working, you're completely on your own, you're suffering so deeply and their is no magic pill to fix or or surgery to remove the thing that's harming you.
Suicide by euthanisia doesn't seem so irrational at this point, and it affords the sufferer more dignity then them being found hanging from the rail of a closet or in a bathtub with their wrists slashed to the bone.

No. 91898

>>91878

We do, but the punishments are often pitiful and a lot of the courts keep it hush hush to avoid public anarchy. It's a disgrace, but we care just as much as the rest of the world. You can't care about something you don't know about though.

No. 91899

>>91894

Watch yourself on that edge cuck.

No. 91900

>>91899
So when I say people have the right to have assisted suicide it's not good either? With the many people who die from assisted suicide they take up a lot of space, I just think only people who have done something good to the world deserve their own ground to be buried in. Doctors, good politicans, talented people etc…

No. 91902

>>91900
Like it's such an honor to be burried? Do you think people feel bad about this? Cremation is much more efficient anyway. You're really just showing the depth of your stupidity.

No. 91903

>>91902
>Do you think people feel bad about this?
Are you bipolar? I dont want people to feel bad
>cremation is much more efficient anyway.
what? thats exactly what I said? But if an important person or good person wants to be buried he or she has the right to do so with a nice stone too to remember the greatness of that person.

No. 91904

This thread attract insane people.
First the girl who keep deleting her messages and now a weirdo who has the wackest argument about burning people's bodies.

No. 91908

>>91904
Messages? lol…posts…
who cares if I deleted them, I didn't want to offend the ones who think this should be done because it's clear my opinion is unpopular in this thread. But deleting them doesn't help since you brought it up. Thanks for calling me insane for saying mentally ill people should get the help they need instead of commiting suicide. I thought suicide was a short term solution, but this is what they told me.

No. 91910

I can see wanting to off yourself because of these problems but there is a reason mental hospitals exist. When someone is suicidal they are supposed to be treated and kept safe by doctors not encouraged and killed by them especially when the death wish is caused by common treatable mental issues and not incurable physical ones. Anorexia can be recovered from, PTSD can slowly become coped with more and more with help from support groups and expert individualised therapy, hallucinations can be reduced with medications and/or therapy as well. None of these conditions are wholly hopeless even for someone who suffered for 15 years I would say it more likely shows a lack of proper treatment. I myself had lack of proper treatment for many mental problems for almost a decade. Apparently in Holland I could be dead now because of it, instead of doing much better and living a normal life.

No. 91911

>>91904
But cremating is better than burying tbh why would you disagree? We could use the land for a nice house or farm instead. I'd love someone to flush my remains in the toilet, don't you?

No. 91914

>>91908
Oh you weren't talking about me lol. Time to delete that post lol…

No. 91915

>>91908
You really think they just hand out death pills to anyone ? It takes years and several specialists to get the approval and you can say no until the last second.
People are calling you dumb because you are dumb.

No. 91917

>>91915
Ok. I'm glad this thread does not reflect reality. I'm all for euthanasia for uncurable sick people but not for mentally ill people, and if it makes me dumb to think that mentally ill people should just seek mental help then I'd rather stay dumb than dead ;^). So from now on whenever someone is complaining about their issues I can unironically meme that they should just kill themselves. Got the message! And I am aware what the procedure is, no need to tell me.

No. 91918

>>91915
>several specialists
btw "smart" anon, it only takes ONE specialist in the netherlands and a "huisarts" to see if euthanasia is an option.

No. 91919

>>91910
They hadn't even started treating her for an eating disorder. As soon as she developed one, they gave up.
The trauma specialist said she was improving, and instead of continuing treatment, they decided to approve euthanizing her.
10 SCEN doctors could say no, but if only 1 approves it, you can be euthanized.

In the Netherlands they deem people very quickly incurable or a lost cause when it comes to mental health. While not even having tried different types of meds or treatments.

She asked for a very long time to be euthanized, but they hadn't even started the applying process, until she lost 10 kg in 2 weeks. This specific case just seems very rushed, since yes usually the approval process takes quite some time.

No. 91920

>>91919
>In the Netherlands they deem people very quickly incurable or a lost cause when it comes to mental health. While not even having tried different types of meds or treatments.
THIS!

No. 91921

>>91908
yeah, posts, sorry.
I was talking about one of the first person to post in this thread, you can see several respond who link to nothing, I think it's weird that she deleted all of her post, make her look mental.

No. 91930

>>91919
Well, what's the other option? Force treatments on her she doesn't want? You can't cure reluctant people when it comes to mental health. You would keep them in asylum? Force them to choose a painful suicide?

No. 91931

>>91918
Two is not several? Oh well, you sure showed me.

No. 91933

>>91931
They only need to find 1 (SCEN doctor) that says yes. 10 could say no, and you could go on trying to find one who will say yes.

No. 91934

>>91930
Yeah so we should just stop trying to treat suicidal people at all, or people who suffer from psychosis, or any other person that might be reluctant. Just all euthanize them, that's the right thing to do huh?

No. 91936

>>91931
A huisarts/GP is NOT a specialist! You sure showed me by calling ME dumb! As the dutch say, don't swallow everything like sweet cake just because they are known as "professionals". I dont know who that girl is, and I dont doubt she suffered a lot, who knows if she is still suffering, but I do know the dutch mental healthcare is terrible so I understand the outrage. Something tells me because of the location she could have improved if they treated her better.

No. 91938

>>91934
With this whole "I can do whatever I want because it's my life" mindset I think this will actually happen as a standard in a few decades.

No. 91939

>>91934

Oh my god you dumb slut you have NO idea how long they've been treating her.

She was being abused and raped from the ages of 5 to 15 right? Do you know what was done to her? Do you know what her physical state was? Do you have any idea how important those years are in terms of cognitive, emotional and mental development are? Do you have any idea how fucked up she would have been?
She was in her 20's right? That's an entire lifetime of mental degradation that trained professionals had obviously been treating for over a decade at this point, and they obviously felt she was beyond reprieve.

This isn't a case of them picking up some suicidal person who'd never been in treatment before and deciding to strap them down and murder them, this is a woman who'd been in treatment for over a DECADE who felt that at this stage in her life it was less painful for her to go to sleep forever in a comfortable dignified manner than be forced to live out her torturous existence where the memories of what had happened to her replayed over and over in her own little VIP silver screen for which she could never escape. Your fat arse doesn't get to fucking decide what somebody else does with THEIR life.

I sware on me mam you fucking cunts make me so mad I wish somebody would fucking euthanise you, trying to twist the arguments into your own little fantasy because you're too emotionally stunted to cope with the reality that your precious little Tumblr fee-fees don't mean shit to the world.

No. 91941

>>91938

It's not a mindset, it's a fact.
You think you as a person have any right to a say over my life? Get over yourself cunt, you're nothing.

No. 91942

>>91939
not that anon but the moment you called her a dumb slut I thought by myself "euthanasia should be legal". Plz go to the doctor you are untreatably mean.

No. 91943

>>91941
Ok edgy qt, YOU have the right to commit suicide without letting the doctors doing it. I dont care if you kill yourself but I do care if doctors think this should be the norm, leave them alone and go into the river without their help.

No. 91944

>>91942

Hell yes I'm fucking mean. The people arguing against the tortured being able to pass away in dignity are little shits who've grown their entire lives away in their ivory towers surrounded by their luxuries and their privileges.
Nobody who has ever actually suffered in their life could possibly argue against giving people the right to take their own life if they wish. They get all haughty and high because they don't understand, because they don't know what real pain is nor what it's like to be forced to suffer it.

No. 91945

>>91944
ok but dont mention tumblr as you are the one being tumblr. ps dont be narcissistic you're not the only one who has pain.

No. 91946

>>91943

Nothing quite so edgier as forcing terminal cancer victims that wish to die be maintained by machines and drugs against their will, suffering up to their last moment, eh Mother Teresa?

No. 91947

>>91945

Who said anything about Tumblr cunt.

No. 91948

>>91947
>that your precious little Tumblr fee-fees don't mean shit to the world.

I dont want to be an armchair psychologist but do you rage irl too? if you are angry all the time you cannot memorize / comprehend things so well

No. 91949

>>91946
You're in the wrong thread kiddo. I am for euthanasia but only for people who aren't mentally ill.

No. 91950

>>91949
But why?

No. 91951

>>91948

>I don't want to be an armchair psychologist BUT


Rly.

No. 91952

>>91950

She believes she's important enough to hold dominion over other people's fate regardless of their circumstances, because her feelings matter :(

No. 91953

is it a dumb question to ask if that silhouette in OP's picture belongs to that woman? Her profile looks either black or asian. But that means she wears weave and if she does lol

No. 91955

>>91953

>A former victim of child sex abuse has ended her life under Dutch euthanasia laws

>Stock image

No. 91956

>>91952
No. I take my opinions back. I believe people who are mentally ill should kill themselves. On /g/ whenever someone complains about their issues I'll just recommend them to kill themselves, thank you for making me more wise.

No. 91957

>>91953
Wow, it obviously an illustration. Like newspaper do? You're dense.

No. 91958

>>91951
Yeah I should have said "from experience" instead. It's true though because you couldn't even remember the tumblr part. Don't rustle your jimmies and discuss properly with that anon like the adult you are plz.

No. 91959

>>91956
Because if something is right for one person, it's right for every body, right? Quite the argument.

No. 91960

>>91957
>>91955
dieneieje fake image and dailymail? Makes my tinfoil hat itch tbh

No. 91961

>>91939
Thank you for calling me a dumb slut and making assumptions, but I actually have been through something similar. I'm fucked up myself, I know how important those years are in terms of development, because I missed it all.

I'm from the Netherlands myself, I've been in contact with Dutch psychiatry for a decade, and I had a psychiatrist tell me that if they were me they would've killed themselves. They gave up on me very quickly, while they hadn't even tried different types of medication, or even EDMR therapy.

But thank you for calling me a dumb slut, I tell myself (and the voices) that already everyday, for being so stupid that I got myself raped when I was 7, and let physical abuse happen from age 4 to 16.

I'm very grateful for my new GP, who does believe I can get better, and for the meds she prescribed to me, since I already improved at least a bit now.

Dutch psychiatry isn't that great when mental health professionals suggest suicide and tell you ghosts are real and that if you hallucinate you should seek religion.

No. 91962

>>91959
I'll suggest them to kill themselves then! It's an option I'll let them know with a smile so they will always remember that there are ways to end their pain!

No. 91963

>>91962
"Heavy painkiller work on people with terrible chronic pain" "oh, yeah? Then why not give them to people who scrape their knees!"
Yeah, ok, sure.

No. 91965

>>91961

Good, I'm glad you've accepted the reality your situation.
You claim to have been through something similar, as have I, then you should understand more than most the long-term damage that comes with these kind of abuses. I thought I could lock mine away behind a brick hole with a porthole, and only occasionally look back upon it in a haze, as if it were a dream, or cnvince myself that I made it all up and that I'm lying for attention, but it doesn't work.
So long as you continue to assert that people who're suffering intolerable pain on a daily basis should be disbarred by the state of control of their existence I will continue to call you a dumb slut.

No. 91966

>>91961
Don't worry anon I'll have your back, you're not a slut anon is just primitive and bitter. She was being completely rude and made assumptions because she thinks people who oppose euthanasia (for mentally ill people) are totez people with a perfect Kim Kardashian life! I am from the Netherlands too and I can really relate to that psychiatry part. They didn't tell me that because I can't tell them my true feelings but they did give up completely on me and I have a feeling that if I told them "suicide is the only option" they would recommend me euthanasia. In one of my impulsive episodes I would probably completely give in and imo that's just plain wrong. Mentally ill people are often impulsive and our choices cannot be taken seriously, as weird as it sounds. We're like margo swinging everywhere with our moods and thoughts.

Ok I'll make people angry again so I'll stop talking about this, we obviously cannot change other people's minds.

No. 91967

>>91961
How does this apply to you then? You didn't want to die. Stop projecting.

No. 91968

>>91965
>I will call you a dumb slut because i dont agree with your opinion
>girl got raped by pedos
I knew it! You're narcissistic after all!
>>91963
>implying there aren't plenty of people who suffer hard shit on /g/ and the vent thread
go away shoo shoo lurk more

No. 91969

>>91968

>I don't want to play armchair psychologist, BUT


Dumb slut.

No. 91970

>>91967
Where did I say I didn't want to die?
I still secretly have a plan to commit suicide by asphyxiation, and the only reason why I won't do it is because I'm against suicide, and know I'd 'regret it', because there's always the chance that something good will happen to me.

No. 91971

>>91968
Yeah, sure, go on with your special brand of crazy where it's not ok for doctors to euthanize legit uncurable people but ok to tell random people to kill themselves.
It makes so much sense now.

No. 91972

>>91969
Savage xd

No. 91974

>>91970

Good for you. Now how exactly do your decisions in life play into the lives of others and what makes you believe they're so important.

No. 91975

>>91971
If euthanasia should be the norm just as much as seeking a psychologist should be, why is it suddenly wrong to let people know euthanasia is an option? If someone is suffering a lot mentally I'd say "plz go to your GP" so they can see a psychologist no? agree or disagree

No. 91976

>>91970
And it's your choice. Nobody is pushing suicide on you, so don't go pushing your views on others.

No. 91977

>>91976
Did you even read what Anon said? In times when she was hopeless and broken "they" only told her "if i was you id kill myself xdd" thats practically suggesting someone to an hero yourself.

No. 91978

>>91975
"But if abortion is an option, won't everybody start having abortions?"
…It's just not how that shit works.

No. 91979

>>91966
That's exactly why I'm against euthanasia for psychiatric patients. We are often not wilsbekwaam/mentally competent by nature.

>>91974
When you aren't mentally competent, you aren't allowed to be euthanized for physical reasons. So why should someone who is severely mentally ill, mentally incompetent by definition, then be allowed to be euthanized? Especially since mental suffering and mental health is way more complicated than physical health, and you can't be of certainty that someone is incurable or won't improve, like you can with physical health.

No. 91980

>>91978
No, you dont understand my post. If you say "I think when I give birth my life will be completely ruined" people with sense would recommend abortion or adoption. Why not say the same when someone says "I was sexually abused by my father I cut myself and my calorie intake is 200".

No. 91981

>>91980
… Nobody is handing out fucking death pills. Stop with that shit. Nobody said it should be the first thing people do when they feel bad. Nobody said you just should kill yourself instead of seeking help. What we are saying is that it's should be a last ditch option, when people are tired of trying. Just like you can refuse you 3rd chemo (even if their is a tiny chance) and ask to be euthanasied instead.

No. 91982

>>91981
They don't use it as a last ditch option in the Netherlands for mental health patients. That's the point, they just gave up, while she showed improvement.

No. 91983

>>91982
She was also having physical difficulties and was bedridden. And most of all, she wanted it. Doesn't sound like last ditch to you ?

No. 91984

>>91979
Awww you are so logical and nice, why is that anon being so mean to you? ;___;
It's so strange how even when you formulate an opinion in a good way there are people who will hate you and your opinion. I really don't understand life but I'm glad that there are still a few people who think what I think. Although my life is not like a fresh breeze of air, it's certainly not as bad as yours or the girl in the news. When that anon said that you dont think about suicide she obviously has a strong lack of empathy, with what you have been through I think you must be thinking about suicide at least once a week. At least I do and my life is not as bad as yours, well idk tbh. But it's different and I had only been sexually abused three times for example. But I noticed when my environment gets better and my way of thinking I can cope things much better. And even though I did it without my shit team of psychologists I think I would have been cured by now if I had gotten better treatments. Suicidal people like me should not be allowed euthanasia, next week I'll say that I love my life etc…

No. 91985

>>91984
This is not your blog. Fuck off.

No. 91986

>>91985
This is/b/

No. 91987

>>91986
Still not your blog.

No. 91988

>>91987
I'm not that anon

No. 91989

>>91981
It seems that in the Netherlands it is much easier to be euthanasied than to get good treatments. Yesterday I felt glad when I read the article because I felt really shit and I seriously wanted to have a talk with my GP, but now I kind of pulled myself together I realized this is terrible that people agree with this AND allow this!
>suicidal mood swings
I knew it, people like us are like margo. We can say one day that life is amazing and the next day that life is hell.
>>91985
Yep. And someone who does agree with euthanasia can blog everywhere because she is not bothering you for having a different opinion. This is /b/, I am ontopic etc… so read my blog and give it 5 stars pretty please

No. 91991

>>91989
Especially since the budget cuts in the Mental Health department, and the blunder with the Personal Bounded Budget, all of the sudden there are more applications for euthanasia, because people aren't being treated anymore.
Then also because of the huge influx of refugees, mental health professionals are too busy. There is a high prevalence of mental illness among them apparently, and they are getting emergency treatment. Which they definitely need.

So it's easier for them to just recommend euthanasia or put you in prison (yes this sometimes happens), than actually treating people.

No. 91993

>>91989
Every mental patient is not BPD. Most of us still can decide for ourselves. It's not because you signed off your agency that we should all have to do the same just to protect you.

No. 91994

>>91991
There are more applications for euthanasia because it wasn't an option before. Correlation is not causation.

No. 91995

>>91991
>prison
Thanks for reminding me, I actually have been put in prison because of this when I was a child. I was an odd shy girl so they thought I was psychotic lol…and because they never listen they just diagnosed me a bunch of other shit so it took 3 years for me to get out.
I hate the whole health system in the Netherlands so whoever is going to tell me that euthanasia for mental reasons should be allowed because professionals are telling you that sometimes there are no options I'll tell them that they put "weird people" in prisons too because "sometimes there is no option to stay home".
Sorry for blogging but I feel this is necessary to mention because people dont realize how many flaws there are in the Netherlands. And I completely agree with you.
>>91993
Lol! When life is shit you cannot properly think! I dont have BPD, but I do know that when you dont have a calm mind, and thats impossible when you're not stable, you regret making decisions you so thought were true at heart when you were in tears or when something reminded you of the past (and with PTSD this can happen often). If you are stable enough to make big decisions then why is that girl in OP unable to live life as everyone?

No. 91996

>>91993
You don't help a drug addict use drugs.
You don't help an anorexic starve themselves.
You don't help a suicidal person kill themselves.
You don't enforce a delusional person their delusions.

Since every person should apparently always be allowed to do whatever they want, we shouldn't be allowed to stop an anorexic from starving themselves or try to have a drug addict stop doing drugs.

You see, this logic doesn't actually work, you don't always know what is best for you.

No. 91997

>>91996
I cant believe there will be people who disagree with you

No. 91998

>>91995
>>91996
Cancer patients life is shit. Cancer patients get depressed and suicidal.
Yes, you're BPD shit and don't know if you want to die or not. You legitimately should be treated like the 8 yo you are and be restricted access to knifes. I have GAD, and I want the option to be euthanized. I'm lucid and it's my fucking choice, whether your precious self wants it or not.

No. 91999

>>91998
Yes and with cancer patients they can properly determine that their cancer is or isn't incurable and that they will most likely die a painful death.
You can't do that with mental health.

No. 92001

>>91998
People with cancer who are mentally unstable are not allowed to have euthanasia but I could be mistaken. If you REALLY wanted to die you could do so without euthanasia.

No. 92002

>>91999
Why not? Mental health doesn't stop you from thinking.

No. 92003

>>92002
It does. Lol.

No. 92004

>>92001
Well, then, why couldn't I go the dignified way with as little pain as possible, if suicide is an option anyway?

No. 92005

>>92003
Yeah, sure. Mental illness makes you a brainless potato.

No. 92006

>>92005
No but it does make you a crazy potato :^)

No. 92007

>>91999
>>92003
But why not? Honestly we have so many humans in the world, someone who is unable to function AND doesn't want to live AND has the physical ability to end their life shouldn't be stopped from doing so.


And actually, we DO enforce delusions if they are far enough gone. I went with my friend to her mom's mental hospital and a man there believed he was an orange, and that everyone was trying to peel him. You think standing there and saying he isn't, or refusing to treat him as such is going to help? No, he'd be an array of flying kicks, fists and bites. He's too delusional to ever be granted euthanasia, but that's a really extreme case. There are people far gone enough to want to exit stage left on their own terms, and not too far gone that they don't understand it's implications.

No. 92008

>>92004
Because it apparently is not allowed in your country and I see no reason to be frustrated about this since you could do it yourself and if you are not an idiot you could even do it painless too. "Dignity" is subjective not objective.

No. 92009

>>92006
Why not just lock all mentally ill in asylum like in the merry ol' time, then. They can't think for themselves. Better sterilize them too. Having kids seems like an awfully large decision for such feeble people.

No. 92011

>>92001
They don't even allow people who have dementia or Alzheimer's, who have signed a contract when they were mentally competent, that if they were to get dementia or Alzheimer's, they want to be euthanized, to be euthanized.

So then it boggles me, that they would allow a severely mentally ill person, who is by definition mentally incompetent, to be euthanized.

>>92005
Mental illness makes you less capable of making right decisions. They might make you decide to starve themselves, use drugs, kill themselves, kill someone, cut yourself, pull out all your hair, eat until your stomach ruptures. Want me to go on?

No. 92012

>>92008
I'm from Belgium. Nice try, tho.

No. 92013

>>92009
How about: trying to make them better or improve their quality of life.

Why does everyone forget that option? You know, therapy, meds, support?

No. 92014

>>92013
Sure, I'm all for better care. But for some people, that just is not working.
I hate the incompetent argument because it's a gateway to just throw people in hospital and left them there against their will.

No. 92015

>>92007
There is a difference with respecting a person their delusion, and trying to make them more delusional.

You don't tell a person who tries to rationalize to themselves that monsters/ghosts don't exist, because science doesn't have prove for it, that monsters exist and that they'll come and kill you.

No. 92016

>>92013
It's almost like there are some forms of mental illness whose severity goes beyond the ability to lead a normal life even with therapy, meds and home care.

No. 92017

>>92014
>>92016

Problem is, in the Netherlands they don't use it as a last resort. They could've tried 2 meds on you, and 1 form of therapy, and then decide that you are incurable and a hopeless case.

No. 92018

I wish death was only temporarily, I'd love to have breaks.

No. 92020

>>92017
Yeah, that's an issue. But here, they deemed here competent enough to make the choice, right? And she had been receiving care for a long time beforehand. Can you show any case proving what you're saying?

No. 92021

>>92020
>suicidal mood swings
Did they really?

No. 92022

>>92011
>They don't even allow people who have dementia or Alzheimer's, who have signed a contract when they were mentally competent, that if they were to get dementia or Alzheimer's, they want to be euthanized, to be euthanized.

So then it boggles me, that they would allow a severely mentally ill person, who is by definition mentally incompetent, to be euthanized.
no one is going to be able to prove you wrong now

No. 92024

>>92022
All mental illnesses are the same. Anxiety is the same thing as dementia. OCD is comparable to schizophrenia. If you show an inkling of mental illness, you are incompetent to choose if you want to exist or not.

No. 92026

>>92024
My grandmother had dementia, and I have anxiety. They are not similar in the slightest - have you recently hit your head, or have had a concussion?

No. 92027

>>92024
Don't you get the problem with how mental illnesses work and when you'd be severely mentally suffering?

If you are only mildly mentally ill, you wouldn't be severely suffering, and even though you are competent, because you aren't severely suffering, they won't approve your application for euthanasia.

But if you are suicidal, you aren't exactly showing an inkling of mental illness, suicidality is pretty damn serious.

No. 92028

>>92027
Anxiety and OCD can feel like pure he'll. My point was that they are some mental illness who make you lose touch of reality and some where you retain lucidity. Pain is there and level of competence are different.
>>92026
It was irony.

No. 92029

>>91995

Not your fucking blog you crazy, psychotic bitch.

No. 92030

>>91995
>psychotic child in prison
Where do you even live? Uganda?

No. 92031

>>91996

>waaah you don't give a drug addict drugs!

>waaah you don't give an alcoholic alcohol!
>waaah you don't give a person who's life is a series of repeated waking agonies the option to end their existence in a dignified manner and here I am comparing the desire for relief from suffering to an addictive substance because I'm probably a fucking idiot that lives in a gilded castle and has never suffered before in my life >:((((((

No. 92032

>>92029
Not psychotic and I never had been psychotic. I have PTSD now though. Btw, I never blogged on /pt/ nor did I blog in the venus thread so this does not apply to me. Please be more constructive and contribute itt or go away!

No. 92034

Ok so why do the rude edgy kids itt seem to overwhelm the people who formulate their opinion in a civilized way?
>>92030
the Netherlands
>>9203
You didn't even read her posts, she has NEVER written her posts in a childish format like you. She herself said that she has been through something similair like the girl we're talking about.

No. 92036

>>92034
They put kids in prison in the Nederlands? Weirdly, I'm not buying it.

No. 92038

>>92036
Well I've seen kids in prison who commited felonies as small as shoplifting, but I've also seen a couple kids like me who had to be get out of their homes by force and when there are no places where you can stay jail is the best place in the eyes of professionals. Idc if you dont believe me, but google it and you'll see im not bullshitting. Anyways my point was that professionals aren't always the best especially in the Netherlands.

No. 92041

File: 1463153484199.png (243.5 KB, 637x358, 1456875996310.png)

>>92032

>"Not psychotic"

>"I've been in prison!"
>"I don't blog!"
>"I have PTSD now though"
>Thanks for reminding me, I actually have been put in prison because of this when I was a child. I was an odd shy girl so they thought I was psychotic lol…and because they never listen they just diagnosed me a bunch of other shit so it took 3 years for me to get out. I hate the whole health system in the Netherlands so whoever is going to tell me that euthanasia for mental reasons should be allowed because professionals are telling you that sometimes there are no options I'll tell them that they put "weird people" in prisons too because "sometimes there is no option to stay home". Sorry for blogging but I feel this is necessary to mention because people dont realize how many flaws there are in the Netherlands. And I completely agree with you. Lol! When life is shit you cannot properly think! I dont have BPD, but I do know that when you dont have a calm mind, and thats impossible when you're not stable, you regret making decisions you so thought were true at heart when you were in tears or when something reminded you of the past (and with PTSD this can happen often). If you are stable enough to make big decisions then why is that girl in OP unable to live life as everyone?

>please be more constructive and contribute itt or go away!

No. 92043

>>92041
Ok so why are you angry? This is not /pt/. I think you just disagree with me so the last resort you have right now is derailing.

No. 92044

>>92043

Nobody wants to hear your life story bitch.

No. 92045

>>92036
https://zuid-holland.sp.nl/nieuws/2008/06/noodplan-voor-kinderen-die-onterecht-in-een-gevangenis-zitten-moet-er-komen

>Kinderen worden door Bureau Jeugdzorg in een jeugdgevangenis geplaatst, omdat er te weinig opvangplaatsen zijn, zowel voor ambulante zorg, crisishulp en gesloten jeugdzorg.


You can use google translation, but I'll sum it up for you:

>Child protective services put children out of abusive homes in prison, because they don't have enough shelters.


At least Bureau Jeugdzorg has been disbanded this year, so I hope that the municipalities who now have to protect children, won't do the same.

No. 92046

>>92038
Tbh it's like this anywhere. Psychiatry is shit is you don't have run-of-the-mill stuff. That's why I advocate euthanasia. Past some point, there's just nothing shrink can do besides tell you to suck it up or drug you into a zombie state.

No. 92047

>>92044
Ok so a woman who was suffering a lot mentally commited assisted suicide and now great brittain is upset about this https://anony.link/http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3583783/Sex-abuse-victim-20s-allowed-choose-euthanasia-Holland-doctors-decided-post-traumatic-stress-conditions-uncurable.html

do you agree/disagree with their outrage? If so why or why not? Etc…

No. 92048

>>92045
Do they just use the space or do they treat the kids like inmates? If it's the latter, I'm fucking blown away. How did Europe not intervene? And by kids, what age are we talking about?

No. 92049

>>92047

>now Great Britain is upset about it


I'm British and we're not. The overwhelming majority of the UK is actually pro-euthanasia, it's a very small percentage of typically conservative and Christian peoples that have an issue with it, and as soon as one of their loved ones comes down with a horrendous illness they are fats to change their stance.

No. 92050

>>92048
From around age 10 to 18. They don't differentiate between who is a real criminal and who is there because their home isn't safe.

But even prison is technically better than the jeugdzorg shelters. Multiple times the directors of those shelters came out to be pedophiles who molested the children.

So in the Netherlands, if you are an abused child, you are kind of fucked.

No. 92051

>>92048
They treated me like everyone else. (to that anon who dislikes my blogs kiss my ass tbh)
>>92050
And dont forget about the kids who actually aren't abused at home! It's a mess there!

No. 92052

Well, to you all antis, I'll advise you to go live in France. No chance you'll ever get euthanized there. Even if you go into a potato-like state.

No. 92053

>>92046
I advocate euthanasia too, but I don't want victims of this system to commit euthanasia because of our shitty mental health care system. I am not suprised if that poor woman hates her therapist/psychologist.

No. 92054

>>92051
Yeah they took a lot of children unjustly out of their homes and wrote false things in reports that didn't align with reality or the findings of psychologists.

No. 92056

>>92054
Well, that goes back to the argument about agency. If you give the power to doctors to deem people incompetent, mistakes and abuse will be made.

No. 92057

>>92053
One person who was euthanized, ciska, you can google her case, basically lost her long term psychotherapist (don't know why) and didn't have a lot of stability in treatment.
Which resulted in her becoming hopeless and wanting to be euthanized and it was a GP/huisarts who approved it.
She was a victim of the system, and instead of trying to fix it, they just killed her.

No. 92069

>>91604
Yeah she was justified. We should all have the right to kill ourselves.

No. 92070

>>91607
So what? Would you rather she kill herself, painfully, illegaly, alone and to perhaps botch it?

No. 92071

>>91613
The sad thing is pedos hardly think what they did is bad. Check out the pedo boards on 8chan some time. They firmly believe molested children enjoy it or even benefit from it and those that complain only do so because society teaches them it was bad.

No. 92072

>>92071
Welllllll some children do. NOT ALL OF COURSE, and I dont think that children should be having sex at all let alone with a wizard, but some children actually do. Dont ask me how I know, but lets just say I personally enjoyed it. It just depends who you are and what your preferences are.

No. 92073

>>91755
The issue of child molestation is mostly a cultural famillial issue since most child sexual abuse occurs im families. We need to encourage children to come forward even if their abiser is their dad, to come forward even if their broter told them everyone would be angry. There needs to be a more comprehensive sex abuse education at younger ages.

No. 92082

>>92070
How about: help her and treat her and don't just give up.

You act as if the only choices are euthanasia or suicide, there is also this thing called help.

No. 92083

>>91996
We already aren't allowed to stop anorexics from starving themselves to death. You're a bit silly, I advise reading books.

No. 92084

>>92082
It doesn't matter. People shouls be able to die with dignity even if they're perfectly healthy.

No. 92085

>>92072
Fuck off pedo, nobody believes you. Hang yourself tonight.

No. 92086

>>92083
Ever heard of involuntary hospitalization, smart ass?

No. 92088

>>92084
Well if we start helping suicidal people kill themselves, should we also start helping anorexics starve themselves, or drug addicts to use drugs etc.?

Should you reinforce something that is part of a disease?

No. 92089

>>92085
Stop denying that some kids prefer older men deal with it! But just because we (I'm an adult now) love them doesn't mean that anyone under 18 should actually mess around with them. Now piss off.

No. 92091

If the girl was in pain and wanted out then i am glad she was helped.
Then again i am Dutch so maybe that's why.

If someone wants out who are you to decide they should stay alive and suffer? Also this must have been a bit more of an intense case then her just being depressed.
I never post personal shit but i think for ONCE it might actually add to the topic.

My grandfather got euthanized because cancer ate away at all his organs and it wasn't just a case of ''Doctor i want euthanasia plz'' ''ok m8 here u go''
Multiple doctors needed to look into the situation.

There was more to this girls story then this shitty article implies and if this girl was starving,mutilated (either by herself or old wounds from her abuser) it's easy to see why they allowed her this peaceful way out.

No. 92092

>>92091
M8 if you're dutch you'd know that
>Multiple doctors needed to look into the situation.
just one SCEN-doctor is enough for the decision, even if 30 disagree (sorry for copying that other dutch anon but she is right). I do think your grandfather made the right decision. The article was being civil though, the girl stayed anonymous and no detail was left out.

No. 92093

>>92088
Don't be ridiculous with the slippery slope fallacy. Allowing people to die with dignity is a great thing. Feudal japan had it right.

No. 92111

>>92093
No not slippery slope fallacy.
Being suicidal is part of mental illness, I don't think you should reinforce a disease. It's on par with providing a drugs junkie with drugs or helping an anorexic starve themselves.

There's also a big difference between someone suffering from a physical, measurable illness, who is incurable and who is going to die soon anyway and giving them a painless death. And someone suffering from a mental illness, which is way more difficult to measure, and you can't say with certainty that someone is incurable or won't ever improve.

With mental illness, suicidality is part of the illness, not something that accompanies it, it is how they want to cope. Some people want to kill themselves, some use drugs (or some other addiction), some starve themselves, some cut themselves etc.

No. 92113

>>92092
What just bothers me is that a lot of people with terminal cancer, or people with dementia/Alzheimer's who have signed a declaration of intention beforehand, don't get approved.

But if some person their psychotherapist isn't available and they can't seem to get a hold of a therapist, and because of that worsen, they can just ask a GP to be euthanized and it gets approved.

That just shows that the system doesn't work, at all.

No. 92115

>>92089
>some kids prefer older men

Just stop.

No. 92118

>>91810
It takes 2 years to from you agree to euthanasia until they actually do it

No. 92119

>>92118
https://www.nvve.nl/wat-euthanasie/zorgvuldige-uitvoering

Can't find anything about waiting 2 years. They do it whenever YOU want. You could get it right away after approval, or wait 10+ years, or revoke it.

No. 92130

>>92007
I don't believe you witnessed anything like that or that your friend's mom took you to a mental hospital. Orange juice kid is an urban legend.

No. 92152

>>92130
Orange juice? No he thought he was an orange/peel-able fruit. Among other things too, for awhile it was a side desk but clearly you were there too. It's not like her mom tried to commit suicide twice within a week or anything – but hey, you already know all this right?

No. 92154

>>92111
That is completely wrong. Suicide can be a rational decision, who are you or anyone to claim that someone has to live for society rather than to be able to decude rationally that they wish to cease?

Was the Russian soldier whao was being surrounded by Daesh mentally ill because he ordered himself to be bombed? No, you have a very narrow minded view.
Choosing death rather than prolonging a deterioration of physical or mental health in the case of the woman is a rational thing to do. We put down animals for this.

No. 92155

>>92083
I take it you aren't aware of the mentl health act and forced treatment then? People can be sectioned and detained in a hospital, force fed by NG tubes. It is a legal measure and many see it as ethically questionable, but you can force someone to cease starving themselves but that doesn't mean they will be mentally well.

No. 92157

>>92082
Forcing someone to take pills or food doesn't mean they will be cured ffs. Mental illness is mostly caused by environmental factors, you can't undo the trauma that woman has suffered.

Sometimes it is more compassionate to just not prolong the inevitable (death). Would you really say "MORE TREATMENT" to a 90 year old woman with terminal brain cancer, when you know that even giving her solid food would cause great discomfort to her body?

Honestly you sound quite naive.

No. 92177

>>92154
>>92157

I already made the distinction ffs. If you are going to die soon already, or have a physically measurable illness that is incurable, then euthanasia is an option that gives you the chance to die with dignity.

But when you are mentally ill, remember the distinction between physical and mental, suicidality is just another symptom. You can't measure how severe a mental illness is or know with any certainty of that person will not improve. With PHYSICAL illnesses, it IS measurable and they can know it with certainty.

When you are mentally ill, suicidality is just as much a symptom as the others. You wouldn't enforce any of the other symptoms, so why would you enforce suicidality? That's like helping an anorexic starve themselves or giving a drugs junkie drugs.

If you are physically severely ill, or are going to die soon anyway, suicidality ISN'T part of your disease, it is a result of the situation.

A very physically sick person, you will give morphine to make them have less pain. But you shouldn't just also give morphine to an opiate junkie, because he claims to be in pain after not having shot heroin in 2 days. Do you get this analogy? When it is part of the disease, you shouldn't enforce it.

No. 92181

>>92177
… You're so dense it makes my head hurts. You can be suicidal AND have a mental illness without it being related. When your life is shitty and you know you're beyond functioning in a normal way, wanting to die is rational.
Stop equating it to wanting drugs, it's just dumb. You don't get high by killing yourself. It nowhere near equivalent. Dying is no fucking drug.
And stop fucking acting like forcing people to bear the unbearable is going to make them miraculously better. Have you ever been in a psychiatric hospital? They are full of long term patient who've been living in hell for 10y+ and want nothing more than to die.
Go look at that shit and tell me it's protecting them to keep them alive against their will when they are so damaged they won't ever be able to reintegrate society.
Life is not precious, ffs. People live and then they die. Refusing to accept that, sometimes, life is too painful for some people and that they just won't get better just show you have hang ups with a natural part of the human experience.

No. 92184

>>92181
People in psychiatric hospitals aren't even allowed to be approved for euthanasia in the Netherlands.

Again, the people who get approved, often had unstable treatment, had a different psychologist every time, or were given up on while they were improving.

If Dutch psychiatry wasn't horrible, and these people were properly treated and it truly was a last resort, I could consider it being a good option. But killing someone while they were improving, or just because someone their psychotherapist is unavailable is lunacy. It isn't used as a last resort, it's used as a cop out for our horrible mental health system.

No. 92185

>>92184
So, everyone is curable and it's just the system? Wow, you sure live in a different world.

No. 92186

>>92185
Some conditions are incurable by definition, but can be improved on, that's what should be focused on.

Sorry that I think you shouldn't be euthanized just because your psychotherapist is unavailable, or because your psychiatrist is ignoring the trauma specialist. Or because they aren't bothered to even START treating you.

No. 92187

>>92186
She was in treatment for years. You're just in denial.

No. 92192

>>92187
And she was improving according to the trauma specialist, but the psychiatrist decided it was impossible for her to improve, so they euthanized her. Something isn't right there.

And how about you google some other cases huh? Ciska, like I mentioned already before in the thread, was euthanized because her psychotherapist wasn't available. She just went to her GP and they got her approved.

Or how about that most people who apply for euthanasia weren't even diagnosed before they applied?

I'm not talking about just this specific case, I'm talking about how the approval system for euthanasia in the Netherlands is fucked and that a lot of victims of our shitty system end up getting killed instead of getting help. While someone with terminal cancer or dementia wouldn't be approved.
Or how about if 30 SCEN doctors don't approve you, you could just keep on looking for one that says yes. Does that sound like a good system? Just keep looking until you find someone who agrees with you?

You're in denial, since according to you it's IMPOSSIBLE that some countries their mental health care is shitty.

No. 92193

>>92192
>And she was improving according to the trauma specialist, but the psychiatrist decided it was impossible for her to improve, so they euthanized her. Something isn't right there.

They don't euthanize her immediately after making the decision, she also has to consent to it, it takes 2 years before it happens.

No. 92195

>>92193
Where does it say that it takes 2 years?
https://www.nvve.nl/wat-euthanasie/zorgvuldige-uitvoering

YOU decide when you die, you are allowed to pick the date yourself when you are approved for euthanasia.

Yes of course a suicidal person will consent to being euthanized. But she wasn't exactly mentally competent to make such decisions, due to being severely mentally ill.

No. 92196

>>92195
They deemed her competent. Who the fuck are you to say she wasn't. I hate this kind of logic. "If your mentally ill, you're never competent". It's the same logic doctors used to lock/lobotomize/force harmful treatments on patients. You should be ashamed of yourself. Mentally ill people are still people. They have rights, they can make choice (even if those choices are not to your liking). Who are you to decide if it's a waste they die when there was a tiny chance they could have recover? Why does that concern you? It's still their fucking choice. You have no right to say that choice is meaningless because you think they are not competent. Your basing your argument on "maybe, they could have been better in the futur", but what if not. What is what the future held was 50y of hell or a painful suicide? You really think that's better than a quick and merciful death?

No. 92198

>>92192
>>92195
Who are YOU to decide what that womam did with her life, she didn't owe you anything.

I honestly don't care if you deem her to be incapable to consent, she was suffering we will never have insight into that suffering, all we know is that she decided that her life was to end because of reasons that honestly shouldn't matter. Her body, her choice.

No. 92199

>>92196
I'm mentally ill myself, I'm from the Netherlands, I have experience with the Dutch mental health care myself.

Have you ACTUALLY read what mental health problems she has? She doesn't have a mild anxiety disorder or mild depression, she is severely mentally ill. She had psychotic symptoms, she wouldn't have even been allowed to drive in the Netherlands. I wouldn't call that someone who is competent enough to make such permanent decisions.

>>92198

Her body, her choice? So we should all stop trying to get anorexics to stop starving themselves, and we should never try to get a junkie clean, because their body their choice. Obviously everyone ALWAYS knows what's best for them.

>>92198
You people are really acting as if suicide and euthanasia were the only options for her. If the Dutch mental health care wasn't so shitty, maybe it wouldn't have come this fucking far. Is it really so horrible that I'd rather have people get proper fucking help, than that they get euthanized INSTEAD of getting actual help?

No. 92200

>>92199
Ugh, you sound like a broken record. Yeah, yeah, care is shitty, so no one should be euthanized? That's pretty bizarre logic you have here. You're talking like thousand of people are euthanasied instead of receiving care. That's pretty ridiculous.
Care isn't good anywhere if you want my opinion. Our understanding of mental illness is still pretty shallow. Killing off people who can't deal at all is not a cop out, it's giving them the reprieve they can't have. You should be happy, it free up beds for people who could actually be cured.
Stop acting like it's a fucking genocide. We all know it's not.

No. 92201

>>92200
They shouldn't euthanize psychiatric patients that fast, and the approval process should be more strict.

Again, they aren't euthanizing people who have been in a psychiatric hospital for 10+ years, those people aren't even eligible for the application process. This isn't freeing up beds.
Someone their psychotherapist could be unavailable, or the GGZ could switch up their treating psychiatrists all the time. You do know that the relationship between a patient and their doctor is important, right? Should someone, because GGZ can't be bothered to just appoint a psychiatrist or psychologist to them, be euthanized?

I just know how easily they suggest euthanasia, because they suggested it to me, while they hadn't even started treating me for something specific, and weren't even bothered to try different medication on me. If I would've been just a tad bit more suicidal back then, I would've been dead right now. And it would've been a mistake, you don't just euthanize someone because you can't be bothered to help them.

No. 92203

>>92201
Too bad you didn't listen to them.

No. 92204

>>92203
Then don't act as if you care about 'it's their body, their choice', you just want random people who you don't like to kill themselves.

No. 92206

>>92204
That's more about the fact that you're a cunt you can't figure out that people should make their own choices.
But hey, you're so invested because, gasp, that could have happened to you. Looks like it didn't, tho. Because eh, guess what, it was your choice.

No. 92207

>>92206
You don't get it, do you?
You don't always know what is best for you. Do you really think that an anorexic starving themselves, knows what the best for themselves is? Do you think that a drugs junkie know what the best for themselves is?

Did you know what choice I actually got? It wasn't given as an option to me, I was told that was the only thing they could do for me. Don't you think some people when they are told that they won't be helped, will take the euthanasia option?

No. 92208

>>92207
Yeah, they will take it and maybe it will be better than years of useless treatment. Stop with the junkies and anas. This have nothing to do with this. You can't take fondamental choices about their life from people. Life, is one of them. How would you react if the choice of marrying and having children was taken from mentally ill people because they are deemed incompetent? It's the same thing. Yeah, maybe it's a bad choice and still, it's not yours to make for them.
Taking drug is not fondamental. Wanting to live or not is.

No. 92209

>>92206
plz no fallacies

No. 92210

>>92208
So it's better to euthanzie someone, instead of at least attempting to treat someone?

Well some mentally ill people shouldn't have custody of children. If your mental illness causes you to abuse your children as an example, you shouldn't have custody of them. Doesn't matter that your need to abuse little children is because of your illness. Abusers shouldn't have custody.

Marriage isn't permanent, death is. Euthanasia is a big and permanent choice, and the approval system around it should be strict. It should be used as a last resort, not just because someone their psychotherapist is unavailable or because GGZ isn't bothered to treat you.

No. 92217

>>92210
Just because you don't want mentally ill or handicapped people to marry, of have kids, doesn't mean you're allowed to stop them. Your right to hate and judge them for their decision is fine up until you think you can decide what is best for them.

That's what you're doing - you're telling people you know better than them, and you know what's best FOR them. I think poor people shouldn't have kids but THAT ISN'T HOW LIFE WORKS.

If you think people consider suicide lightly period, even without forced waiting times, you're a fucking retard. Guess you shouldn't marry or have kids by your own admitted logic.

No. 92218

>>92210
Look, you obviously are in the minority wuith your opinion thank god. Why go off on a tangent, comparing this woman's struggle to parents abusing their children and drug addiction!?

The judgement made was progressive, mental trauma is just as painful and life limiting as physical trauma. The woman did not choose to be abused, she obviously rationalised her choices and was given the consent to have them respected.

Now please grow up, your opinions seem so immature. Are you even aware that most psychiatric drugs can cause more harm than good? And that forcing any form of treatment on someone is a legal matter and can too cause severe trauma?

No. 92222

>>92217
Did I say anything about not allowing them to marry or have kids? Did I? No. Then why go on about that? You're just seeking something to be angry about.

I'm just saying, that the euthanasia approval system should be more strict, and that it shouldn't be done for every little small thing, and that they should first actually try to help people, instead of giving up.

No. 92223

>>92218
>you obviously are in the minority wuith your opinion thank god.
not that anon but lol do you really think people irl think mentally ill people should get euthanasia? There is an outrage for a reason. On lolcow farmers unfortunately have a lot of personal issues which results in distorted extreme views, we're anonymous and fucking autistic. Newsflash: People irl believe suicide is a short term solution.

No. 92225

>>92218
I have gone through a similar thing as her, I've already explained that earlier in the thread. I know damn well how painful it is. Why do you think they even suggested fucking euthanasia to me?

Do you know what's also traumatic? HAVING PEOPLE GIVE UP ON YOU, WITHOUT EVEN FUCKING TRYING. I'm just suggesting that GGZ should sort their shit out, actually start helping people, and not giving up so fast.

And I know damn well that psychiatric drugs can do more harm than good. But just because it went wrong with anti depressants, doesn't mean you can't try out anti psychotics as an example. All meds have their risks, and you have to weigh out the benefits and the cons.

And apparently you are very bad at reading, since I HAVEN'T compared her struggles to anything. I have only tried to fucking explain, that suicidality is a symptom, when it comes to mental illness, and that you don't enforce symptoms.

I'm not even talking about specifically this woman her case ffs, I'm talking about how GGZ works, and how euthanasia for psychiatric patients work, and how many cases are suspicious.

People are saying here that for every little psychiatric issue, you should be allowed to be euthanized. I say: how about getting help. And then people bring up this woman again, while I wasn't even talking about her specifically.

No. 92226

But there are benefits of euthanasia in such cases though. We get rid of the weakminded and ill people. It's economically better. But it might recycle the psychological issues that comes with it.

No. 92228

>>92226
Is it such a foreign concept to you that maybe it's morally wrong to just kill anyone who is an inconvenience?

No. 92229

>>92223
We aren't talking about eugenics for goodness sake. We are discussing one woman's personal choice, and that her suffering should be respected in the same way that others who go to assisted suicide clinics is.

Who is anyone to say that someone must live to their expectations? This woman lived for herself, and she decided and was given the consent to have her decision respected, I think many who disagree with this on this thread are projecting their own insecurities on the deceased woman.

No. 92230

>>92225
Who gave up on her? She had years of therapy and a psychological team at the assisted suicide clinic. Do you not respect her autonomy? She decided, it isn't about this teenage angst perception of having others "save" you.

No. 92231

>>92230
Again. The trauma specialist said she was improving. Psychiatrist said it's impossible for her to improve. That kind of sounds like giving up.
She only needs 1 SCEN doctor to approve it. 30 people can say she isn't a hopeless cause, and 1 person can say she is, and it's approved. It's a flawed system, so even if she really was a lost cause, and should be allowed to be euthanized, you can't know that for sure. I'm sorry that I think that the euthanasia system should be more strict, and should be less flawed.
Also ever heard of 'wilsbekwaamheid'? Huh? Mental competence. They have to assess if she is mentally competent to have such autonomy. And the articles don't make her sound like someone who is mentally competent. She only needs to find 1 doctor to deem her mentally competent. She could go on asking 100 doctors until she finally finds one who agrees with her. That just doesn't sound like a good system.

No. 92232

For everyone in this thread that is against euthanasia:

Are you also against war and death penalty?

No. 92233

>>92232
What about abortion and animal euthanasia?

No. 92234

>>92231
Would you apply the same to a person visiting that clinic who has M.E? They commit suicide whilst still having life in them, still having treatments available but have decided to travel to the suicide clinic and as you put it "give up"?

Every single client of these assisted suicide centres could in your eyes still receive some form of treatment to keep them physically alive, but for whose benefit? You obviously don't believe in autonomy of a patient which is vile.

No. 92235

>>92233
They probably think a woman who has been raped and falls pregnant, "owes" society that child rather than support her aborting it.

No. 92236

>>92232
Imagine if the death penalty would be executed as soon as you could find 1 person that would deem the person guilty. It doesn't matter that 100 judges say they aren't.

>>92233
Imagine, if your dog has an illness that might be fixed with antibiotics. But your vet isn't bothered to even try the antibiotics. So they say: 'either I put the dog down, or you fuck off'.

I'm not against euthanasia as a concept, I'm against the flawed Dutch euthanasia system and the mental health system.

No. 92237

>>92234
I'm talking about doctors giving up while there are treatments available. Not the patient. DOCTORS GIVING UP WHILE THERE ARE TREATMENTS AVAILABLE.

No. 92238

>>92236
Your talking as though this woman has committed a crime!

No. 92239

>>92233
Don't care about animal euthanasia, if the owner wants to do it why not? Pets are property. But for some autists a game is their beloved too.
I'm against war.
Against death penalty simply because there have been cases where the "criminal" was actually a victim
>>92235
nice assumption. im pro abortion, but imo there are women who do abortion waayyy to late where the baby actually is "alive". But yeah generally im pro abortion. But I hate those women who see joy in having abortion as a comeback or something.


Most of us who are against euthanasia for mentally ill people are pro euthanasia for cancer patients etc… plz understand this

No. 92240

>>92235
I think you should be allowed to have an abortion whether you are raped or not. Up until a certain point of course, not after a few months.

No. 92242

>>92237
You can't just keep treating a patient who is not responding to it, or the treatment may cause more harm than positive.

We have already discussed this. Maybe read up on the ethics if you care enough.

No. 92243

>>92239
Why should a woman who is suffering through being abused, who has life limiting conditions because of this be treated any lesser than someone with ME?

Both can respond to treatment in your eyes.

No. 92244

>>92242
Again.

Imagine a person comes to GGZ with mental health problems. They set up a plan, and decide to give you [this therapy] and [these meds]. After a year, the treatment isn't working. Treatment stops.

Few years later, you go again. You get again the same treatment. After a year, the treatment of course isn't working. Treatment stops.

Now, what should they do? Should they suggest euthanasia? Should they try the SAME treatment again in a few years? Or should they try a DIFFERENT treatment?

In my opinion, they should try a different treatment BEFORE suggesting euthanasia. And if the different treatment works, you shouldn't just ignore it and then STILL suggest euthanasia.

You probably have the idea that they try different things before suggesting euthanasia? Well no.

No. 92245

>>92243
Is suicidality part of the symptoms of ME? No.
Is suicidality part of the symptoms of PTSD and other mental illnesses? Yes.

No. 92251

I think I'm going to leave this thread. Too many people here are for eugenics, or don't think euthanasia should be carefully considered. And well then there are the people who call CSA victims sluts.
But yeah, get angry with me for suggesting that mental health care should be improved, and that the euthanasia application system should be sorted out (because they sometimes don't allow terminal cancer patients to be euthanized, but do allow people whose psychotherapist is unavailable to be euthanized).

People are just seeking reasons to be angry here and assume way too much.

No. 92254

>>92244
Ok, you just know nothing about treatments. There's not a billion of them available. You try benzos, then ADs, then neuroleptics. You try therapy. Maybe you go the electroshocks route. And then it's over. You've done it all. And be you can do it in approximately 3years. There's not an infinity of molecules. If you don't respond to any of that stuff, you're just fucked. And trying again another AD or neuroleptic is not going to change that.
I understand that you're a mental patient and want to retain hope about treatment, but more often than not, for serious cases, there's just no good treatment and no hope of remission. It's life, very few people get a happy ending.

No. 92256

well now the anon with good points left this thread this thread will become a circle jerk

proves people are good at discussing again :^)

No. 92262

>>92251

Dumb slut.

No. 92263

>>91961
You're not a slut. Don't let a bunch or garbage tier cosplayers and lolita trash get to you anon. These whores already dress up sluttily to their dumb "cons" and "comms" anyway.

No. 92268

Can the anon who can only say "dumb slut" please stop posting here? She contributes nothing and only derails the thread. She also is an embarrassment to those who approve euthanasia for mentally ill people.

No. 92271

>>92254
Exactly, I don't understand why saying so is such a taboo. We are still in the middle ages when it comes to treating mental illness, and the idea that you can treat mental illness as being a "chemical inbalance" is nonsense!

Medication for mental illness is not one based on fact, it's trial and a lot of error. It is a fact though that the meds can cause serious side effects and take 10 years off your life.

The woman had obviously gone through countless rounds of medication changes, and she still was the same trauma victim. She was strong enough to realise that for her ending her life was the rational decision and I find it so rude that some are questioning her autonomy simply because she had a mental health diagnosis.




autonomy
[aw-ton-uh-mee]

Examples
Word Origin

See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
noun, plural autonomies.
1.
independence or freedom, as of the will or one's actions:
the autonomy of the individual.
2.
the condition of being autonomous; self-government or the right of self-government:
The rebels demanded autonomy from Spain.
3.
a self-governing community.

No. 92272

>>92245
Plenty of people with physical health problems take their own life. Are you saying the majority of clients of assisted suicide centres are mentally unfit because they would rather be dead? There was a brilliant insigh into assisted dying on a bbc dicumentary, google it.

No. 92296

>>91604
>adult person wants to kill herself
>doctors help her doing so in the least painful way possible
>implying there's anything wrong with chosing your death

Like, they ALLOWED her, so she was the initiator of the decision, no pressure implied.

No. 92378

we need a news general tbh

No. 92389

>>92378

There is a news general.

>>>/b/85776

No. 92391

>>92007
>I went with my friend to her mom's mental hospital and a man there believed he was an orange, and that everyone was trying to peel him.

I agree with the premise of your argument in it's entirety but bull fucking shit. This is a well documented urban legend from the nineteen sixties. Stop telling lies online you weirdo.

No. 92396

>>92389
OP should have used that thread instead

No. 92431

>>92391
Maybe he was actually an orange? Who's to say your perception of reality is the right one? Ashley believes she's going to live until she's 70, quirks thinks she's curvy, asha thinks she's a redhead and OP thinks they're not a fag. Everyone has their little delusions.

I think if the orange dude or whoever else that's mentally ill wants to die, they should have the right to. So what if they're "unsound"? Who's to say their way of seeing the world is wrong? Who are you to impose a different reality on them?

No. 92444

>>92431
you're retarded or that bullshitter

kys faggot

No. 92571

>>92444
Kissu to you too <3

No. 92581

I've been thinking lately, I'm a person that fears death, like all of us. Those that say they don't are either liars, too stupid to grasp the concept of 'death' as a reality, or they're achieved genuine transcendence and become a living buddha.

Sometimes at night I lie away and I feel my heart beating away, ba-dump, ba-dump, ba-dump, aware that at some point in my life, my body will one day betray me and it will cease function forever. Death in most cases is painful isn't it? Even if the victim is at the moment unconscious, the pain is still there. For those that are conscious, what an unpleasant demise.

I think this is the next step forward for us you know. For those of us that do manage to reach an old age where we're riddled with affliction and don't want to face the horror of death, a euthanasia system in which the old can choose to enter into after a series of consultations and reviews. This is something I would use. I don't want to go out of this world painfully, incoherent, delirious and suffering, but it's all coming for us all the same.

No. 92583

>>92431
Babby's first "what if my red is, like, your green and my green is your red, dude!?"

Read a fucking book, that's not how shit works.

No. 92674

>>92581
i feel you anon, and i agree with everything you said. i think about death a lot. it's bad enough to die. it's even worse to suffer through it.

No. 92689

>>91740
"teach them not to rape" is the stupidest ass shit ever and it drives me up the wall when i see it. you can't teach someone not to rape. people know you shouldn't murder other people but they still do it. you can't stop people from murdering. you can't stop people from raping. people who rape and murder lack something inside of them that cannot be taught. they are missing that human part of them that keeps them from doing bad shit, and were born that way.

No. 92691

>>92689

Anon you've entirely missed the point of this. This phrase is a reaction to the way in which people respond to women as both gendered and sexual beings, and the way in which they function and are treat in both a society and culture accordingly.

Look at countries such as India which has an enormous amount of rapes occurring every day, many of them savage beyond comprehension. You think this is because Indian men are "naturally" more inclined to rape than Westerners? No, it's because they in a culture in which women are property first and foremost and human beings secondary.
The West was at a time like this too during the middle-ages, but we moved to stamp that attitude out and for the most part all that remains are the congenitally perverse. When people say "teach them not to rape" it means "stamp out the culture that promotes the attitude that your victims are objects".

No. 92697

>>92691
rapes will still happen, just as murder still happens. there will be less of them, sure, but never less than murder.

No. 92713

>>92689
But a lot of men don't even realize they're rapists. There's that study that got men to admit they had raped a girl just by rewording the question to not include the word rape. Lots don't see anything wrong with fucking drunk or sleeping girls. And of course there's the guys who think "no means yes" and will ignore resistance.

No. 92724

>>92581
>I'm a person that fears death, like all of us. Those that say they don't…

I fear certain ways of dying, but the concept of death itself seems very freeing and inevitable for everyone so I don't dwell on death itself much.

Like you said, there's a degree of dignity in choosing how you die as opposed to the fear and uncertainty of being doomed to excruciating pain in a slow death.
I fear suffering, mental anguish, and regret. Not death.
IMO a medically induced death by being rendered unconscious seems like the kindest and most painless way to die.

No. 92734

>>92581
I'm fucking stoked for this honestly. I'm not afraid of death itself. So I cease existing, eh so what, I'll be dead and I won't have an opinion on the matter. The part I don't like is the suffering like you said. There's a trillion ways to die and I can probably count on my hands how many of those are quick and painless.

I've watched too many relatives in misery on their death beds and not only is it horrible for them, but it's horrible for the family and friends to watch someone they love go through that.

I'm not having kids, I have two family members left and they will likely die before me, so when the time comes I'm definitely ready to board that sweet euthanasia train.



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