/meta/ - site discussion

>>2196
I'm kinda on the fence, she's been pretty boring but at least her threads were organized for regular lurkers. The Ana containment thread is full of wankery.

My main thought is, why Aly's was merged but not Ginge or Ash? Aly is just as snowflake-ish as either of them, since she's constantly doing dumb shit, lying, and blocking/banning/deleting shit she doesn't agree with. Plus the thread was fairly active and well organized, while I can't stand wading through the general proana thread, plus so many of those girls are just annoying and not that amusing. I think either all proanas should be in one thread, or we should be able to have a thread for the big cringy ones.

her thread hovers around the top 5 everyday.

The ginger thread is still on its own. And I'm not sure why. Is it a matter of being interesting? Because you can't decide what's interesting for people. Aly was interesting enough to be updated daily, and interesting enough to re-open this topic for discussion.

The humor came from the people that frequented her thread. We have a lot of fun talking about her to each other, and all the details matter. In order to continue at that level of detail she needs her own thread. And like what a lot of people already said it was an organized and civil thread.

>>2199
I agree here. Ok, I kind of get Ash since she was an ex chan and has just done so much dramatic shit that she deserves cow status. Ginger could be considered another ED general though, except she's in denial of her disorder. Quite honestly, I always thought the ED general thread was more for attention whoring wannarexics though. If you look at the majority of the people posted there they are usually claiming an eating disorder but it's mostly just for internet points. I'm sure they all have some sort of problem mentally but it sure isn't spoopy skeltal levels. Ginger and Aly are more similar to each other since they both clearly have a disorder but are in a sort of denial regarding how bad it is. To me that's a different classification from bitches like Ember, Crying Emily, or Crockpot.

I am confused why admin is saying that on day 2 no one brought up an argument for why Aly should have her own thread. I was at the town hall on day 2, and I brought up a few reasons why I think the thread should be separate, and so did at least a few others.

As others have stated - Aly's thread was active, organized, and the farmers who frequented there had a fun little community going. I really don't see the harm in keeping her thread open, or why it has to be some big damn debate. People who don't want to read the thread can just scroll on by, just like I do with threads that don't interest me.

Sorry but I don't get the logic of throwing Aly into that mess of a thread with Ember and fucking Emily Crocker, et al. It's ridiculous and arbitrary. Someone didn't like Aly having her own thread? Fine, don't fucking read it. What was the harm? This makes no sense.

Aly has nothing in common with anyone else in that stupid thread. NOTHING. And now if I want to talk about her I have to wade through a morass of crap about ember & a bunch of other idiots I don't give a crap about? FUCK THAT.

"This thread is not wanted on lolcow"? What the hell is that shit, Admin?

>>2204
This. What is wanted and what is not?

>>2204
It's not so much the threads, but the posters that come along with them. We'd like to minimize the introduction of too many new users from certain other communities.

That said, I'm not entirely against separating out Aly's thread again. I'll continue to look at the discussion here. And we'll maybe do another townhall next weekend to re-visit this, among other topics.

The majority of posters on the Aly thread are not wannabe anas or underage pro anas, we have a level of humour and posts are relevant/updated with new milk regularly. Farmers are clever at finding new milk e.g. befriending others in her circle, screenshotting mistaken posts she makes, talking with her in Italian to get different info etc

I feel the merge has diluted the milk. There was tension when Ember was merged with the ana scumbag thread. And it's now a Emily/Emily UK/ Ember thread as others are called self posts so Aly needs her own thread to keep the milk contained

The new posters, from MPA for example seem to only lurk for a few posts then they leave, the shit posts have been quite contained by the regular farmers

[Feel free to scroll to TL;DR, sorry this is a little long]
I actually came to this site because of a friend telling me about the Aly threads. I have since enjoyed the entire board, not just Aly's threads. I attended the first Town Hall chat and voiced my opinion against a merge of all "wanaflake" threads but wasn't given a chance to make my case; I was judged and dismissed, as far as I could ascertain, simply for being anti-merge. Admin-sama asked whether I was from MPA or Tumblr and I said no (honestly). Whatever else I said clearly was ill-received despite my remaining polite and trying to contribute constructively. At some point, I think after I made a compassionate comment about Admin-sama being tired and we were running late (hence why the second Town Hall was scheduled), I was asked my age. I answered honestly but was subsequently LOL'd and banned, I guess because it is unconscionable that middle-aged adults come here? Anyway…I definitely got the message that clearly these kind of threads are not wanted here at all (which Admin-sama confirmed here >>96509 ), and honestly I would not have even posted about this in detail at all, save for seeing that this topic/thread had been made. So, onward:

TL;DR: Aly's threads should have been kept intact because they were: 1) well-organized; 2) largely on-topic; 3) free of shitposters for the most part; 4) regularly updated and 5) entertaining af for a lot of people!

I've met several people on here now who also first learned about Lolcow because of the Aly threads, and then ended up staying/following multiple topics.

>>2209

I agree. Aly's thread is not detrimental to the community, and does not attract MPAfags.

Those that do show up do so in the general scumbag thread either because A) their photo was posted and Ember contacted them or B) they came to have a bitch about how "mean" we are. They are promptly sorted out by the posters in scumbag general and don't stay longer than two or three posts. The new rule about not posting under 16's will greatly resolve this issue, as the ones we did have turn up were normally under 16, or had come to support their under 16 year old mates. Now that that rule is in place, things will get way better in that respect.

When "that kind of poster" turns up, the thread sorts them out by itself, and they're swiftly kicked out. The threads can manage themselves in that respect. Aly's thread wasn't having those issues at all anyway, and wasn't attracting shitposters or whiteknights. It was a perfectly healthy, productive, and loved thread. Aly's thread wasn't a mistake, it was well-used, far more active and long running. The very number of Aly threads there has been attests to the fact that people really like those threads, and that they are needed.

With respect, it seems far more detrimental to the community as a whole to do this, and to use biased chats and votes to sort the perceived problem out rather than addressing the issue up front as we are now. It seems like it has the potential to be highly damaging to the wider community to be cutting out entire, well organized, enjoyable, and very active thread communities because of a perceived problem that isn't necessarily attached to that thread.

I think this has the potential to do far more harm than good, I'm afraid. That's my main concern. We love this site, Admin, we appreciate the time and effort you put into it and what you do for us, but it's disappointing to see that sense of community disrupted and jeopardized. This whole thing is really worrying.

>>2211

Thanks anon, you put into words perfectly what I was going to say. The Aly threads have their own humour which would just get lost when lumped in with the wannarexics and attention whores. I read both threads (Aly and ED attention whore general) but only really post in Aly's (sporadically, but even so) because of the general in-jokes and the fact that it generally stays on topic, with fewer personal blog posts and hardly any MPA shitposters compared to the ED general.

Please bring back Aly threads. Please? They give me the strenght to be the REAL ME.

>>2210
I keep coming back to check on the Aly debate even though I've (in theory) left the site.

At this point I don't even think the site name is even accurate. This is nothing like a lolcow board/forum/site where anyone highly lulzy is fair game.

It's really a place to knock weebs with bad wigs/bad japanese skillz/shit non-label frocks/sucky Asian boyfriends.

Tbh, even if Aly got her own thread back I wouldn't post because why give allegiance to a site that doesn't even want you here?

I see the camwhores all being lumped together. They don't have stuffed llamas and pastel hair and circle lenses so fuck em.

> I was asked my age. I answered honestly but was subsequently LOL'd and banned, I guess because it is unconscionable that middle-aged adults come here?

Those feels. Yeah, anon, I'm knocking on in years too. I wrote on the survey how old I was and I've mentioned it in chat. I put that kind of response down to ignorance because most people under 25 think you start wearing twin sets, listening to Adele and writing mommy blogs.

There's a clique going on with admin/farm hands who DO have an agenda. Whatever regular posters think about the site doesn't matter. Well, fuck it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Admin-sama I don't get why a real skeleton is merged with wannarexics. If I wanted to look at skeletons I would go to the Ashley or Aly thread, but it surely bothers me to see a skeleton between all the normal weight wannas. I haven't even mentioned the real overweight ones I laugh at everytime they get posted.

For me it's not the same to laught at people claiming to have anorexia nervosa, than laughing at a skeleton who clearly has that sickness and claims to be recovering.

I guess the main thing I'm not understanding is: what's the problem with Aly having her own thread? As in, what harm does it do? Sure, it might not fit Admin's tastes, but it stays within its own threads. As far as I can tell, people don't come here angry for Aly and then pollute other threads over it.
Is it a money issue? Does it cost more to have more threads or have more users on the site? If so, why not just say that? Something like, "Aly threads use money in a way that I consider wasteful" is much better than just saying the threads aren't welcome.

In addition, Aly's threads started a year ago. Why not stop it then? We were laughing at Ash because of her antics, not because she was faking recovery. It would have been quite easy to say, "We're not here to bash anorexics for their illness" and leave it as a PC thing. (Though I'll admit that that might not have flown either.) It just seems a little late to start saying that the threads aren't welcome here, that's all.

Admin, I hope you do read and consider the points put forth on this thread. This:
>Aly's threads should have been kept intact because they were: 1) well-organized; 2) largely on-topic; 3) free of shitposters for the most part; 4) regularly updated and 5) entertaining af for a lot of people! (From >>2210)
is a much better argument than "I don't like these threads."
While I understand that it's your site, Admin, part of creating an anonymous online community is understanding that things are going to change from your original vision of the site.

I think as the site gets larger, Admin and others are conflicted about the direction it's going. I think initially he wanted something similar to the old /cgl/ and aimed to cultivate the audience a bit more in that direction but as the site's interests spread wider and wider it's hard to keep up with the interests of the community vs his original intentions.

Unfortunately you cannot cultivate any particular audience and also have complete freedom of speech. If you don't have rules, some content will be worse than others, sometimes much worse, and it's frankly much easier to create terrible content than it is to create good content, especially in something like this where the cow's success revolves around them being humorous enough not only to the person who comes across them but to the people who read the thread. The disproportionately higher shit content will inevitably drag the board down as no one wants to dig through the shit, as many have stated. I have seen so many good threads sage to oblivion because no one seemed to care but me and like 2 other people. I have seen so many (in my opinion) shit threads cycle around to thread number 3 or 5 or 14 because so many people seem to give a fuck. I think a ton of people probably share my exact view (more PT, less Berry/Anas), but we aren't the only people here.

When you start to add rules and regulations, you start to lose freedom of speech. I don't necessarily think that rules are bad, though. But I also don't think compartmentalizing everything and making new boards and containment threads is the answer. In fact I think it might actually make it worse, as evidenced by the /r9k/ containment threads.

I think the new rule of having an age limit but only CERTAIN people under 18 hand-selected by staff can have threads, for example, is a mess. It should either be all over 18 or allow everyone regardless of age. And in that case, if you're going to allow all people regardless of age to be posted, then all people regardless of age should be able to post. I only mention this rule in this thread and not the other because I think it's an example of making too heavy-handed a rule, which then makes the website more skewed toward what staff wants. Which in itself is absolutely NOT different from what I personally want (and again, probably a lot of other people, judging by townhalls), but it is different than what a lot of OTHER people want. What's going to happen with this rule is someone under 18 who is genuinely lulzy TO STAFF (and probably the /cgl/ crowd) will be allowed to have a thread, but someone under 18 who is genuinely lulzy to OTHERS (not staff) not to be posted, because they simply won't "get" the humor.

Going off on that last point: I do NOT GET the Aly threads. I don't get the appeal at all. As a /cgl/ oldfag I will admit that I initially voted to merge the Aly thread with the wannarexics in hopes that the MPAnons would get the picture and get off my board reeee. But frankly, this is not my board, and I'm not the target audience of those threads. MPA doesn't even seem to be the target audience of those threads. I don't care about any of the anas. I have no idea what you guys want. And I think taking a poll in townhall that will naturally be skewed toward /cgl/ weeby types simply because there are more of those people on this website is going to always end in favor of closing off or minimizing the non-weeby shit, which is unfair when the votes are really close. I'm not talking about the times when it's like 1 to 20, but when it's split fairly evenly with a margin of error of like 3, that's too close to take action.

I also think townhalls need to be restructured if you want to get anything done. They should be more frequent, deal with one issue per meeting. and last no longer than an hour. There should be one in the morning and one in the evening to account for people in various timezones. I bring this up here because when they drag on for 4 hours, very few people from the beginning stick around to the end, and those who do stick around to the end just want it to be over.

It is completely ignorant to deny the /cgl/ roots that this site has as a spinoff of stamrose as a spinoff of cgl etc etc, and that most of the content WILL come from those communities and thus be weeby in nature, but it would also be silly to deny it has not morphed into something else entirely different, possibly because it seems to have lasted a bit longer and has a broader userbase and seemingly more freedom.

Admin, if you want to keep anas out of your cgl then you need to make a /cgl/ board and an /ana/ board. If it isn't about separating those two communities and more about quality, you need to just point blank lock or delete obvious vendettas rather than allowing them to fester or snowball, because that indicates to newcomers that they can post that type of thing. Since you have repeatedly refused to make new boards or delete content, you need to either live with the intermingling and wade through the shit, or you need to just admit that there is no truly free speech on this chan and clean it up. I don't think many people would fault you for deleting or at least locking and autosaging 100% shit threads if it means the quality posts get pushed to the top. With that said, you need more mods and janitors with a wider range of interests to get this done. You seem to have the /cgl/ part. You need some /instagram/ and /tumblr/ and /godknowswhatelse/ to pick up the slack. Or just completely kill off those entire communities rather than giving them containment threads.

I think Aly should have stayed separate since we were our small community on lolcow. Even MPA was doubting/mocking her so if they did come they would have contributed to this board. Ember/Emily were the issue bringers to lolcow not Alice's loyal fans.
I rather see Aly have her own thread, especially one that lasted through at least 5 good round than these vendetta or hating on fat lolitas who have just have bad fashion/makeup skills but no real milk. Those should be locked and not moved to /b/ but stop them since they just clutter

>>2206
>It's not so much the threads, but the posters that come along with them.

Admin, I dont know who told you "those certain people" are coming to lolcow BECAUSE of the Aly thread but they are wrong. That is evidenced by all of our testimony here regarding how organized and clean her threads are. Admin if you spent any time in the Aly thread you would see that right away. I visited everyday and it was rare to see a shitpost or even an argument.

So im curious how you came to the conclusion her thread alone was trafficking unsavory people while simultaneously concluding the Ginger thread isn't? Or not realizing that it is probably the merged thread causing the unwanted traffic; with its whiny, crying, self harming, public display of shame, probably telling everyone they know how we bully them thread.

Where in contrast Aly has none of that going on, who is Aly going to tell about us? her brother? (if you follow her youd know why that's funny)

one more point: If what >>2210 said and a few other people have said is true, about how they were at the town hall meeting and either got laughed off the chat or asked loaded questions. How did you think you were going to get away with telling us "these threads arent wanted here" when you're ADMIN of a website that is pretty good at picking out bullshit. so im calling bullshit, something fucked up is happening here.

>>2216
This entire thing

>>2216
Everything I wanted to say.

The other ana-chans are largely self-aware and are seeking attention on lolcow, whereas Aly and Ginger are not.

>>2218
This ^

To repeat: "How did you think you were going to get away with telling us "these threads arent wanted here" when you're ADMIN of a website that is pretty good at picking out bullshit. so im calling bullshit, something fucked up is happening here."

Guarantee that any "problem posters" are coming from that shitmagnet wannarexic/ember thread, NOT Aly's.

I was also asked my age by admin in chat, although this was when I was arguing that the minimum posting and cow age should be the same. And apparently, for using the term "like".
I digress.
I think an /ana/ board wouldn't work. Containment doesn't work in general.
The problem wasn't the Aly thread, it's the wannarexic/ember one and Aly just doesn't belong there, neither does Ginger. Even merging Aly and Ginger together would be better than the current situation.

I appreciate the effort admin is making in resolving this but arguing for something they plainly don't even want here is just demoralizing.

>>2216
>And I think taking a poll in townhall that will naturally be skewed toward /cgl/ weeby types simply because there are more of those people on this website is going to always end in favor of closing off or minimizing the non-weeby shit, which is unfair when the votes are really close
That's a good point. The results are always going to be skewed against threads like these in ad hoc polls; the people who don't care much either way and originate from /cgl/ (or at least not Instagram/Tumblr/PULL) will probably be more likely to vote to merge, since they don't have an interest in ED people.

>>2223
This was partly because of a conversation I had the day before with, at the time, one of two or three (vocal) Aly thread supporters.

I PM'd her and asked her how she found lolcow:

[Fri Feb 19 2016 23:01:43] <townhallthoughts> Apologies admin-sama, I feel bad you are taking time to even PM me right now! :( Not sure where, but my friend told me about Aly, neither of us can stand her fake-ass bullshit about recovery! That's how I got here.
[Fri Feb 19 2016 23:02:19] <townhallthoughts> …and have been addicted ever since to the whole board. ^_^

A few things from the main chat:

[Fri Feb 19 2016 23:16:54] <townhallthoughts> So oldies-but-goodies could be a category too? AGREE omg love /cream
[Fri Feb 19 2016 23:18:45] <townhallthoughts> May we have an Oldies-But-Goodies section prettyplease Admin-sama?
[Fri Feb 19 2016 23:18:51] <Admin> townhallthoughts: no
[Fri Feb 19 2016 23:19:09] <townhallthoughts> aww ok.
[Fri Feb 19 2016 23:20:37] <townhallthoughts> I thought it would rule and help the board in general. :/
[Fri Feb 19 2016 23:20:54] <townhallthoughts> yes you need to take care of you admin-sama
[Fri Feb 19 2016 23:20:54] <Admin> townhallthoughts: out of curiosity, how old are you?
[Fri Feb 19 2016 23:21:02] <townhallthoughts> 40
[Fri Feb 19 2016 23:21:06] <Admin> are you 18 or older.
[no response]

She was very obviously underage. I'd be lying if I didn't say that partly reinforced my decision to merge the Aly thread. I understand this was just one anecdotal encounter and shouldn't be used to color my impression of everyone who posts her in thread, though.

The only message I saw from you before I asked how old you were was:

>I'm guessing that the minimum posting age (18) is pretty much set in stone right?

Perfectly understandable in the context of the discussion, but keep in mind it was a fast-moving chat, so I just interpreted it as an underage person requesting permission to post. I did not remember enough of the previous things you said to understand you were just trying to point out a contradiction. We've had a few underage people in the townhalls before expressing similar sentiments, which is also why I was suspicious. Apologies for questioning you unfairly.


After reviewing the posts in the previous few Aly threads carefully, I've concluded that this is not as much of an issue as I thought it might be - despite the skewed impression many of us had based on some of the townhall participants. Most of the posters in Aly's thread do not seem very similar to the Ember posters. Her thread also predates all of the Ember-tier threads that popped up on /snow/.

Her thread is now unlocked. We're going back to the rule we had before: every thread about ED/wannarexic/whatever people should stay in the ED general thread, with the only exceptions at the moment being Ashley, Aly, and Ginger.

>>>/snow/91978

>>2224
thank you admin!! yay!!! I sincerely hope this hasn't affected her thread, and that it is the same as it ever was.

but may I point out something? that in your account of the main chat you ask:
>"out of curiosity, how old are you?"
the very next response was:
>"40"
then you ask if they are over 18. 40 is over 18 so how was that a "no response"?

I see that you arent disclosing chat names, so maybe the person who replied "40" wasn't who you addressed. idk.

>>2225
Those messages are all from the same person.

They very very obviously were not anywhere near 40. If they said something like "19" then maybe I could believe it a little. It's very common for kids to list ridiculous ages like that.

They responded to "how old are you" but did not respond when I asked if they were 18 or older.

They're actually >>2210.

>I was asked my age. I answered honestly but was subsequently LOL'd and banned, I guess because it is unconscionable that middle-aged adults come here?

Based on your post history and what you wrote in chat, I would be extremely shocked if you're actually 40, and pretty shocked if you're 18 or older.

>>2224
Thank you.

>>2224
Thank you, admin-sama

Thank you for reinstating the Aly thread!

>>2226
That person was me, and contrary to your assumptions, I am (sadly, I might add) actually 40. Yep, middle-aged people are human too and appreciate a nice LOL once in a while. You were confrontational and dismissive despite my being not only polite and respectful at all times in that chat but even expressing compassion for you being in there for 4 hours. As soon as I said I was anti-merge, you responded with something like, "so you must be from MPA or Tumblr, right?" WTF, people can't disagree with you or they are underage wanaflakes? I get that you were tired; I get that there are a lot of fake shitty people from dumbass places who come here and shitpost threads, but not everyone who has a disagreeing opinion to your own is one of them.

>>2230
I questioned your whereabouts primarily due to your very juvenile writing style and irritating, oblivious questions. Your support for the Aly thread only further added to my suspicions. If you're really 40, then there are many 18-year-olds here who sound far more mature than you.

edit:

Actually, I could maybe believe you being 40 now. I may have confused you for a minor because you essentially sound like Hillary Clinton trying to use the Internet for the first time. Horseshoe effect, or something.

>>2231
With all due respect, Admin-sama, I thought this site was a place where one could come to have a laugh. Many people come here to let loose and shirk mainstream societal constraints on demeanor and self-censorship for a little while. I certainly do not come here to vie for maturity points. If you wish to foster an environment facilitating genuine dialogue with the community, where genuine feedback is welcomed and wanted and freely given, laughing at and kicking people out for questions or comments which you perceive to be 'irritating' or 'oblivious' is not helpful. This kind of action inevitably results in people either declining to contribute altogether for fear of being slammed, or deteriorating into an echo-chamber circlejerk fest.
Lolcow is not an etiquette, maturity or scholarly-focused platform and not everyone is going to agree with you or 'act their age' here. That should be a given.

TL;DR: I have great respect and appreciation for all you have to deal with administrating a site like this, but it seems you want to homogenize this community, and as has happened to far too many sites before, doing so will inevitably squelch the vitality and much-loved anon spirit of the site.
Thank you for all you do and all the shit you put up with. Thank you for restoring the Aly board. ~peace~

I'm sorry I missed all this conversation, and I'm glad it went the right way. Thanks all.

>>2232
I only banned you because I, and the rest of the site staff, genuinely thought you were under 18. 18 is the minimum age limit. I do not ban or punish people just for disagreeing with me or being irritating.

>>2234
In that case I would be grateful for you to un-ban my IP in meta chat, and I will endeavor to post more maturely in the future.