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No. 1819899
Regardless of the actual number of deaths or illnesses, the pandemic had a lasting impact on cultures and the political landscape of the world. The pre-pandemic times feels like a distant era now, This includes changes in the economy and the radicalization of many individuals, and I believe we will soon start witnessing the consequences of these impacts.
link to the previous coof thread
>>>/ot/1004812 No. 1819973
File: 1703023677802.gif (1.96 MB, 350x175, F63F4FD3-C8E1-4111-B858-7AA601…)
We honestly don’t need all these new shit threads. At least five useless ones have sprung up in the last month. There should be a general discussion thread atp.
No. 1820015
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I think the Red Scare, probably the closest western analogue to the covid hysteria, is the cultural trajectory the Covid Lockdowns will take.
For those who don't know, the Red Scare was a bout of American hysteria over geopolitical setbacks at the time, most specifically the loss of China. You had a charismatic expert in McCarthy, buttressed by the military industrial complex which was looking to gorge itself on tax dollars. To question the military industrial complex was to be "unamerican". Until a few years in, the claims of McCarthy got more and more outlandish and absurd, and president Eisenhower, instead of being beholden to that schizo, laughed him off and everyone just got sick of it.
With Covid, you had Fauci in the position of McCarthy, he had a little cult of personality with people singing songs about the "Fauci Ouchie". The medical industrial complex was engorging itself on public funds, and had an interest in keeping the hysteria going. The claims started as being reasonable at first, but then a few variants in people suddenly got sick of it.
We're at that cultural calm afterwards where people just don't really talk about it. The same thing happened in the late 50s and early 60s with the Red Scare. People knew it happened, knew it was excessive, but didn't really feel like talking about it.
Then enough time passed and people gave it a more honest assessment, on wikipedia now you'll find it described like
>A Red Scare is a form of public hysteria provoked by fear of the rise, supposed or real, of leftist ideologies in a society, especially communism.
I think in ten to fifteen years time, the Covid era will be described similar
>The Covid Lockdowns were a form of public hysteria provoked by fear of the spread of the coronavirus.
No. 1820046
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>>1820015>cultural changesI think we've passed the event horizon of too many people being sad, mopey losers and thinking "depression" is a personality. It's no longer cool to joke about how you're not living past 30 or whatever, or how how anxiety does this or that. Because it's become such a ubiquitous problem due to our shitty lifestyle. People think "mental health awareness" media and stuff is about being deep, but I think it's more pathetic than that, people have genuinely become such losers that they feel insecure at the portrayal of happy-go-lucky types that don't have problems.
I rewatched American Pie recently and that's one thing that struck me. The world has changed so much in the sense we've normalized being a loser. In that dumb boner comedy movie for teenagers, nobody complains, nobody whines. They display accurate insecurity and awkwardness for teenagers at that stage of life, but even that's probably too much for contemporary zoom zoomers because real problems people work through make them feel insecure about their excessive focus on fake problems.
But yeah, as we climb out of the covid era I think very soon, complaining about anxiety or saying you have depression just won't be a thing people desire to do. I think we've gotten sick of mental health awareness stuff and insincere media that wink winks at the audience. Covid accelerated this, and it's no coincidence the collapse of Marvel slop correlated with the era.
No. 1820129
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I've always been online but COVID-time was my worst. I feel like I've become a meaner, dumber person. I have trouble focusing, can't read, can't exercise. I'm constantly filled with regret for my past. I really wish I was born earlier. I'm annoyed with everything and everyone.
No. 1820147
>>1820015This is a really well thought out take and I think you're right. I also think a lot of trust was lost in the government and supposedly neutral government entities. What sticks out in my mind is the CDC lying to us about the masks. In the beginning, they said that no one should wear a mask, they claimed that they didn't work. They lied because they feared that the public would make a run on them, depriving the hospitals before production could be ramped up. But then masks became available and they released the truth and even made masks mandatory.
I don't care what the reason was, if they lied publicly once, then they're willing to lie again. Nothing they say can be taken as the truth, you have to parse it out yourself.
No. 1820160
>>1819931i wear it so strangers can stop bumping into me and stop talking to me. i unironically wish the 6 feet away method was enforced 24/7
>>1820137seconding this
No. 1820196
>>1820151This was an obvious joke now all the germspergs are coming out of the woodwork good job
nonnie.
No. 1820221
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>wore a mask
>got vaccinated
>never caught covid
>finally quit the job I hated
>got a better job and went back to college
No. 1820363
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>>1820160>i unironically wish the 6 feet away method was enforced 24/7Same I hate people being close to me and I love wearing masks. Things were also kept much cleaner too.
No. 1820547
>>1820539Because of people like
>>1820462 thinking people who don’t like masks are autistic
Toddlers wearing masks is revolting and so is breathing in your own breath all day, I don’t care if you do it, but it is revolting
No. 1820704
>>1820686It's not really as obvious as all the things mentioned so far unless you know troons irl. I haven't seen anyone I know irl troon out so it's something I've noticed online, the closest would be a friend of mine sperging once because she was moving out of her place, needed help to throw some things away and called JKR a racist transphobe because she felt she had to explain why she ordered a chibi Harry Potter plushes 10 years ago.
Noticing how people in general act is way easier because it really affected everyone. Personally I find it funny that normies turned into turbo retards because they couldn't socialize irl with their classmates and coworkers while I had to deal with the same shit when growing up with my
abusive religious parents for way longer and everyone gave me shit for it back then, and now I'm doing just fine in comparison. Serves them right. Noticing how working frol home got way more popular as a result is also easier. It's a bunch of small things that directly affect us even if you don't do it because it makes commuting way easier for instance.
No. 1820939
>>1820931I've had a lot of people sneezing on me or coughing on me as they walk next to me in the opposite direction, which means that instead of doing it before or after, they specifically turn their heads in my direction a few centimeters away from me, do that shit, don't put their hand in front of their mouth and leave. I think that's way weirder.
>>1820933I've seen that a lot of them still have them, especially restaurants and cafes, but almost nobody uses them because they're right next to the entrance so you only notice when you're inside and there are other people right behind you. I always had tiny bottles on me as soon as I started uni a decade ago because I often ate fast food between classes and when I read how nasty keyboards and touch screens can get I thought it would be a good idea. Maybe you should do that if you don't already have that habit.
No. 1820949
>>1820686>>1820945people (normies, npcs, whatever) were separated from society for a while. totally unprecedented. these types get a lot of their personality, thought process, moral system etc. from other people irl and without that they had to do a lot of self-reflection.
for many of them (women especially) they realized how unimportant shit like makeup, beauty culture, etc. really was because they had nobody to perform for. and rather than go "oh okay gender is bullshit" they went "oh okay so i'm not a woman after all? if i were a woman i'd still be happily doing makeup and acting feminine even when alone"
No. 1820964
>>1820949oh and they automatically went the gendie route because they have no frame of reference for being gnc, have never read anything on gender that wasn't written by a tra or pseud, there's arguably a more "artsy" and "unique" community for them if they are a troon vs. a female person, so on so forth.
>>1820954well that's what you saw, i'm speaking from what i saw. i e-stalk a lot of cool women and they all went down the enbie route because they were smart enough to realize that "femininity" is not at all inherent to being a woman but couldn't develop that thought enough to reach the logical conclusion, possibly because they have hsts friends and didn't want to wrongthink
No. 1820973
>>1820964Sorry but if they became an enby NLOG, then they must think femininity
is inherent to women, even if they say and post otherwise.
No. 1820980
>>1820973>then they must think femininity is inherent to womenwell yes, that's what i meant to imply with
>but couldn't develop that thought enough to reach the logical conclusionand also outright said here
>if i were a woman i'd still be happily doing makeup and acting feminine even when alonethey managed to split themselves from femme trappings but ended up thinking that meant they weren't women
No. 1820988
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No. 1821738
The radicalization is real. Yeah, prior to lockdown people in my area were cutting off their conservative relatives but during lockdown it extended to COVID deniers, then terfs, swerfs, cop apologists, and people who were too enthusiastic about killing pedos. I noticed people would start revealing their most extreme political opinions as a conversation starter. Both people I was meeting for the first time and lifelong friends I hadn't seen in a year would open up with “god, I hate cishet white men” or “check out my bag, it says protect trans kids.” and that shit would happen at every. single. social gathering.
Even the people I know who were never much into social media would regurgitate Twitter posts and reddit-tier arguments verbatim. It was really uncanny, just being in a room where everyone is saying Twitter posts out loud and not really engaging with what's being said. And of course the same people became so afraid of misinformation, they'd derail any conversation if it even seemed like someone was skeptical. One friend admitted she does this because she doesn't know how to educate people, but she still knows they're wrong. It really was crazy just watching people fall for all sorts of propaganda day after day after day (conservatives too btw) and being so smug about it.
I thought things would cool off after we all collectively touched grass, but I haven't seen any signs of it slowing down.
No. 1822783
>>1821068My country never did masks (except in a few locations like airports). I only saw a handful of masks during the entire pandemic. Funny thing is my internet friends were the american kind to angrily rage about no-maskers being selfish pricks and how they were killing everyone and I had to silently sit there and pretend that we totally wear masks too
Just for the record not wearing masks did not result in any more deaths, go figure
No. 1823236
>>1822783What country are you in?
IIRC, Japan didn't enact a bunch of new strict laws, but their culture is naturally communal enough that people just acted responsibly and that's why things never got out of hand. America is a place where men take pride in going into crowded places no matter how sick (to be fair, our shitty work culture/laws encourage this), not washing their hands, and intentionally coughing wetly and loudly onto everyone in their vicinity. So when they catch COVID, it's more of a secondhand frustration than a marginally less chimped moid from somewhere less retarded.
No. 1823403
The real cultural impact it had was increasing fascism and no I do not say that flippantly. Economically it distributed more wealth to the top, corporations and the government worked together to force citizens into complying with behaviors impacting their personal lives and bodies to execute economic and social control over said citizens (do this, don't do that, or no job/outings/education for you, slave!) and it socially validated the totalitarian culture of "might is right", aka, whatever voice has the government and corporation-sponsored opinion is given the complete power to bully those who oppose. You only have to see this in every bootlicking mask fag who can't wait for their chance to screech at you for not obeying The Correct Thing to Do and any concern regarding the measures is met with emotional hysteria. Based women need to rise up and recognize that cucking and endlessly self sacrificing themselves out of life and fun to "protect others" is not feminist and is just a cog in the scheme to get women (and men) to submit to social conditioning. Reject the social order, resist psychological facism, be selfish, kill grandpas, disrespect society. Thank you.
No. 1823492
>>1823462France doesn't have that many women wearing burqas and if you see women wearing the hijab they're not the majority among muslims. I don't remember seeing anyone wearing burqas before the same law passed at least but it's been a while since then.
>A woman on bike wearing a scarf was stopped and questioned about whether the temperature was really cold enough to wear a scarf.That's crazy, it's just a scarf and we all know women's clothes are thin and shitty, so it can be hard to stay warm during winter depending on the weather where you live. Reminds me of school in winter when it's super cold, there's no heating whatsoever and you're not allowed to keep wearing your coat in the classroom to stay warm and healthy because "it's impolite", I would always have my fingers get way bigger and hurt a lot from this to the point where writing was very painful. Anyway I'm not surprised by the police doing this with women because women are more likely to comply and to not try to assault the police for being professional harassers.
No. 1828823
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Thoughts?
No. 1828857
>>1828854nta, I feel like the only people who truly love fully remote work are people who either already have a family/good relationships or people who think a co-worker saying hello is some sort of offense.
Also agreed, it absolutely fucked up a generation of children that missed out on important early childhood socialization.
No. 1828869
>>1819931I loved how the masks reduced facial expressions. I constantly get my face analysed and people (mostly moids) wrongly assume things off my face (didn't smile happy enough, looked too sad…) and I have to watch my expression all the time. So back when we had masks it was just happy (squinted eyes), sad, neutral, surprised. Made communication so much easier for me.
>>1828847What I found weird travelling to Istanbul pre and post covid is how pretty much everyone seems to wear hijab now when it wasn't the case before and it seems way more religious and hostile to non religious people there now. I feel like there was quite a religious radicalization during the quarantine in some countries.
No. 1828887
It feels like decades ago now…
I moved to a huge city and recently saw some people wearing masks while shopping which left me bewildered, on the countryside absolutely nobody wore one in years.
I remember in the beginning thinking that a huge part of the world's population was gonna die (also parts of my family) and yet..? I mean we saw those horrible dystopian videos of China and one area in Italy but nothing much happened here?
Due to my job I got vaccinated 3 times extremely early and yet I got covid multiple times. My grandpa who I was so worried about hardly stuck to any rules and never got it/didn't notice it.
My mom always said that certain things will stick afferwards, like wearing masks when you're sick but now thankfully everything is back to normal, like e.g. people giving handshakes again, which I always hated before but I now realize is an important part of culture. People already lack human touch/contact and many lack politeness, so it's good that we kept this one manner.
It annoys me when people still push children being fucked up on covid. Your kid has long forgotten about lockdown, children are living the moment, they're not traumatized, it's your behavior before, during and after covid that's fucking them up. Nobody forces you now to keep your child indoors in front of screens 24/7, to never play with them, to never read to them, this is all your own laziness…
No. 1829327
>>1828873yeah I never really understood the "everyone suffered" thing. A lot of people did, I know a lot of people who ended up breaking sobriety out of the stress of losing their job or working in unsafe conditions. I have a lot of sympathy for those who were already struggling and that lockdown pushed them further into mental illness or addiction.
But the people who whine the most (in my personal interactions) were the ones who worked from home and got stir crazy and were upset they couldnt go do stuff. even worse was the audacity of people who had the comfort of working from home bitching about how unfair it was they had to go back to the office when so many people never had the luxury of staying home to work. imo, the types of people who are/were the most vocal about how ~traumatic~ their cushiony lockdown situation was have probably never had anything bad happen to them and covid was their first wakeup call to reality
No. 1829337
>>1828873>>1829327It really depends, the pandemic fucked me over in a way that ruined my career plans for the rest of my life, same thing for two of my friends, and when I caught covid I was very sick for several months and it's a miracle I don't have long term symptoms after that. And a friend of mine lost three family members from the virus. I also had to worry about not contaminating my disabled mother because she would have died from that given how horrible her health is. It's not because of the lockdowns and curfews, it's really because of the pandemic itself, and you have to keep in mind that without these measures a lot more people would have died so I don't get these "it wasn't that bad, I thought more people would die" like yeah no shit, that would have been the case without emergency measures all over the world. I think the only people I see complaining about how traumatized from the pandemic they are without having real issues are all terminally online normies sad that they couldn't see their middle or high school classmates face to face on a daily basis as opposed to losing their jobs, becoming poor and worrying about homelessness, worrying about suffering from an unknown illness with no cure or vaccine (at the time obviously), being stuck at home while suffering from domestic violence, working at a hospital and being overworked, etc. Meanwhile irl people forgot about it or still indirectly suffer greatly from it, no in-between.
>in my opinion, the world desperately needed to change and the pandemic was the kickstart we needed to start living in the future.It changed for the worst though. The economy is still utterly fucked from the pandemic and the measures taken by most countries and none of that helped regarding current geopolitical issues. It's not even a wake up call for some governments so you still have a very low number of beds in hospitals and doctors for each patient in some countries unless you're willing to pay for private healthcare or you're about to die.
No. 1831464
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What even was the deal with Dr. Fauci worship?
No. 1831975
>>1828873>>1829327Also chiming in here to say that the pandemic fucked me over in a similar way as
>>1829337 and it also screwed over my boyfriend, friends, and family members as well. I never got sick during the entirety of it, but my college shut down and I was in a really good program for my major with a nearly perfect GPA. Everyone went awol on me, including people high up in the school who I was on good terms with and prior to the shitshow we had plans to help out in the local community. This would've looked great on my resume and it would've been my first real project to oversee and I was very excited to do some good. My area stayed dictated by masking and lockdowns due to the proximity of military bases nearby. This included everything from schools to even basic shit like a Big Lots and grocery stores. I'm finally getting back on track after moving for the second time and I'm due to graduate by the end of next year, but its been fucking hell to get back to this point because tons of people really did use this as an excuse to shut down everything and not do their jobs. I don't think people realize how their reluctance to go back to work at vital services ended up fucking over everybody else or maybe they just didn't care. I know people who lost their jobs because of this.
No. 1833074
Forcing people to solely interact online made them forget they were interacting with actual people, people are far more cold in person now. I’ve definitely found myself being more harsh and direct than I used to be and try to reel it in- no in person interaction led to people being comfortable with saying and doing things and being able to ignore any consequences for others. I think it’s also lead to the deepening polarization of viewpoints and extreme tribalism. Everyone is petrified of being on the outside due to saying or thinking whatever wrong thing, so everyone clamors to say some sort of canned statement to make sure others view them as “on their team” so they don’t become an outcast, and believe forcing others to be outcasts protects them. Everyone just feels on edge, social contracts don’t exist anymore, absolutely no one trusts the government. Echoing the nona upthread, when they lied about the masks at the start of everything, the game was already over. That’s when if you pointed out the government lied to us, people would foam at the mouth to defend it and call you a Qanon supporter. My personal tinfoil is that it wasn’t to save supplies for hospitals, they didn’t want people to have a valid reason to not work/consoom and need to be supported, and they were hoping they could ignore everything. I absolutely took precautions with covid, but I also believe the heavy restrictions was more of the powers that be putting us in our place, and fighting against us to prove a point. Every politician absolutely hates the people that elected them. Covid forced everyone to truly acknowledge no one is going to save anyone, especially not anyone elected to do so- despite it being their job. It’s widespread hopelessness.
No. 1834733
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Despite the increase in porn-sickness, things got worse in terms of sexlessness post pandemic, compared to previous generations, none of my friends, relatives, male and female dated much or had sex. Anecdotally, I don’t know any women my age who are these well adjusted, thriving, socially mobile individuals popular medias makes gen z girls out to be. Even when it looks like that from the outside, they’re actually struggling a lot, often have zero social circle just like guys. A lot of those girls on TikTok are actually socially isolated recluses , and im not saying this as a flippant guess lol.
moids my age and older people look at girls they scarcely know and assume she’s living a cushy dream, not realising she’s also a kissless virgin, also living in poverty/partially dependent on parents, also has no career prospects, also has very little social life…
No. 1835112
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So many young girls I knew, in schools and even a few relatives, came out as non-binary during the quarantine; the stuff I thought only possible in tumblr cringe compilations suddenly became reality. A few quietly ended the LARP as they grew older, but many are still identifying as enbies and even transmen in their 20's.
No. 1835113
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No. 1835167
>>1835112Cause they were all locked in watching gendie tiktoks and youtube.
More evidence that gender confusion is social contagion.
No. 1837494
>>1819931I see people doing it in service jobs and I don't blame them. Service jobs are a germ haven, if you want to mask up then be my guest
Also as other anons mentioned common practice in Asian countries to wear masks prior to the pandemic. It's not that weird
No. 1837514
>>1819899I feel like the impact on school children is hard to deal with. In my country we are still dealing with kids that are wayyy behind where they should be in terms of basic reading and writing. Also theres a concerning amount of children that have not returned back to school. Some state that they prefer online learning, a lot of parents don't seem overly forceful to put their kids back into school, though i suspect a lot of anxious/autistic kids have lost vital social skills that would make returning to school a nightmare for all involved.
(also slight tinfoil but i couldn't help raise an eyebrow when the first wave of people to "leave" quarantine were nursery aged kids. They are very snotty, germy and handsy by nature so it was lowkey
sus why we were sending 3 year olds to the "frontline" so to speak.)
No. 1837849
>>1837514>>1837800tbh I've seen plenty of teachers complaining about this way before the pandemic. It seems like the pandemic just accelerated something that was already there.
>though i suspect a lot of anxious/autistic kids have lost vital social skills that would make returning to school a nightmare for all involved. Autistic kids should never be in schools with normal kids tbh so that's not a big loss.
No. 1837933
>>1837445Ahh it's more like, hospitals were crawling with covid, covid ward or not, and were short staffed (consider how short staffed polish hospitals are even without a massive epidemic going on) so most people that needed urgent hospital care 1. didn't receive adequate care after they were admitted to a hospital 2. received hospital-grade covid infection. The cancellation of scheduled appointments and procedures wasn't even the main cause of massive mortality I think, though it will be felt for years in the future for sure. My post- 3 strokes grandma was admitted to a hospital with some cardiac event during winter of 2020 and discharged before Christmas, supposedly covid-free, after which she infected everyone in the family with covid and got admitted again, spent another few weeks there and died. My parents said after the 1st shorter stay she already had bedsores (!!!). My boyfriend's gran got admitted to a hospital for an urgent but simple procedure (which was performed succesfully btw), contracted covid and died way quicker than mine, just a week later. Both were shuffled around different hospitals for some reason, with hospital barely informing the family. My bf's mom only found out about her mother in law's actual state by talking to a random nurse from a clinic which is in the same building as her workplace - hospital wouldn't provide any information. What's amazing about all this is how there was literally 0 backlash from society at large about this, there must be thousand stories like these two, and people would still rather sperg about vaccines causing autism and limp dick than about the state of public healthcare in this supposedly european country.
No. 1845100
>>1842597In my experience only elementary/middle/non-competetive high school kids don't care if someone was sick. In universities people really get mad at sick people not staying home because we have attendance at most subjects and it gets troublesome if you catch something and have to miss classes or even worse, exams.
>>1842845It's so messed up how you have to pay for basic healthcare in so many countries
No. 1860307
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Even though covid cases across the board have gone down there are still people who seem to wish that it was still pandemic-era
No. 1860313
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>>1860307Stay at home and collect gibs. Who wouldn't.
I guess redditors also get off on policing other people.
No. 1860364
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>>1860313we've discussed these people a few times already, they are genuinely mentally ill and seem to have other unaddressed issues.
No. 1860437
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This may sound weird but I miss the masks. I could just assume everybody was attractive because I couldn't see how disproportionate all their features were. It also meant all of my autistic zoned out facial expressions were hidden from direct view. I would do dumb shit like let my mouth hang slightly open all day.
No. 1860449
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>>1860445your guess is as good as mine, at least they're going out and doing something I guess.
No. 1860469
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>>1860466sorry, i replied to the wrong post, i meant it for the one with the zerocovid redditors kek
No. 1869620
Covid really showed how easy people are to control. I didnt get vaccinated and had people screaming at me how Im a murdering others. My mother and grandma would call me crying and at that point I just lied to get then to shut up. Was banned from social events after general shutdowns stopped, which I know werent necessary but what if the ban was expanded to stuff like stores? All for experimental fucking vaccines from drug companies known to commit fraud. Some people I know who got vaccinated have actually gotten covid again with WORSE symptoms. I hope that is not generally how it works.
>>1860887>>1860870Australians really seemed to go full dystopian mode. And people still okay with it? Makes you wonder how far the leaders can take it without resistance.
No. 1869665
I don't get the anons saying people lost their minds and became assholes after the pandemic and lockdowns/curfews. If anything these people were already assholes and just decided that they didn't want to hide it anymore after all "they've been through" or they were already like this even before the pandemic but it's more obvious now because of the former people making them more assholes than before in total.
>>1869620No that's not how that generally works, the point of the vaccine is to make symptoms less severe if it's not enough to prevent an infection. Maybe your friends would have had very severe symptoms for all we know. I caught it when the vaccine didn't exist yet so it was really, really bad, and after getting vaccinated I never caught it again despite living with immunocompromised family members who caught it and from our doctors that's pretty normal. But then again the virud mutated in between and was less dangerous so it's kinda hard to say.
No. 1870237
>>1869665Nta but vaccines were supposed to avoid infection and spread altogether but they're changed that up like 10 times after they realized people have eyes so I can't blame the general population for not knowing kek. You could have high immunity because you got a bad infection the first time, that's how it was for my mother who got it bad (bad as in some respiratory issues that cleared up as soon as the right medication was given) and never got it again from other people even if she didn't get any more vaccines. I got it when vaccines weren't a thing and barely had a fever, other people I know keep up with vaccines and get it regularly and also get nasty flus. Honestly I think immunity from vaccines is pretty random if not near-useless, people got actual immunity after getting covid.
I get so tired of people saying "b-but if you didn't get the vaccines it could have been sooo much worse!!" when that can't be proven and covid has become so harmless that the seasonal flu is more lethal.
No. 1871438
>>1870237>You could have high immunity because you got a bad infection the first timeI doubt it because more than a year happened between when I recovered and when my parents caught a less dangerous strain, so I didn't have any antibody left inside me anymore at that point. If we remove the fact that I'm vaccinated in my case, the virus already mutated and became less dangerous at that point. By the way, I don't know if that's directly related but I waited some months before getting my first shot and I didn't get any side effect which I really suspected I would get at first since covid fucked me up for several months beforehand. What made me wait was seeing a bunch of women saying it made their period irregular, longer or way more intense, idk if that's the right word. I only heard about potential heart problems way later but it has affected me that way at all either.
>Nta but vaccines were supposed to avoid infection and spread altogether but they're changed that up like 10 times after they realized people have eyes so I can't blame the general population for not knowing kek.>covid has become so harmless that the seasonal flu is more lethal.My parents gets the vaccine for the flu every winter because of their health issues and it's meant to lessen symptoms, not make you immune. I was paying attention to the pandemic a lot back then because I moved to another place to get a job after graduating and I suspected it could ruin all my plans
and it did and from what I remember once the vaccine was accessible to everyone in my country and not just people working in healthcare and immunocompromised people it was "advertised" the same way. Since a lot of countries handled the pandemic in very different ways I wouldn't be surprised if the vaccine was advertised as making vaccinated people totally immune.
No. 1871664
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No. 1871758
>>1871684The virus mutated naturally at some point by fusing with the flu, allegedly it happened in south africa. That was the start of the "omicron" strains. The vaccines didn't do shit.
What was funny was that at some point authorities were forcing people to take the vaccine for the "first covid" (which wasn't even really the first covid, the vaccines contain some random ass sequence, they guessed like they do with the flu) while the "first covid" was already non-existent. For like 6 months they were getting people vaccinated for an illness that didn't exist anymore.
>>1871438>Since a lot of countries handled the pandemic in very different ways I wouldn't be surprised if the vaccine was advertised as making vaccinated people totally immune.Yeah, advertised that way by the ones producing it kek. They're been awfully shady and it was insane how they were trying to gaslight people when they changed their minds. It will give you total immunity for a year! No actually 40% for 6 months! Alrigh maybe 10% but it's essential for vulnerable people! Oh yeah but we didn't really test it on vulnerable people… still, get pregnant women and children vaccinated!! What? You got it a week after vaccination? And you had to go to the hospital? W-well it would have been worse of you didn't take it!!
>doubt it because more than a year happened between when I recovered and when my parents caught a less dangerous strain, so I didn't have any antibody left inside me anymore at that pointThat's not how immunity really works. The actual antibodies leave the body a few days after you're cured, but your brain "remembers" the virus and in case it comes in contact with it again, it will be able to produce the right immune response quickly and in a stable manner. There were studies on this early on as well, even referencing people who had gotten the sars in 2003 still being able to produce antibodies. That's why it was especially useless to vaccinate healthy people who had already gotten covid, and there were many doctors in my country advising not to take it in that case because they suspected it could have been dangerous.
No. 1921576
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is LongCOVID actually real?
No. 1921619
>>1921576>>1921582It’s ME/CFS caused by Covid, simple as. Any virus/illness/major life stressor can
trigger ME/CFS, although some things are much more likely to
trigger it, like mono and as it so happens, COVID.
No. 1921849
The education system is fucked. No motivation or self-discipline from students whatsoever. Not to blame them, but a lot of it does come from home life. Parents have likely contributed by not being a great example of discipline and determination. In elementary schools, you can see many students from grade 2 - 5 can barely write legibly, even correct spelling is at a low. I've seen numerous videos people working in high schools saying many students cannot form complete sentences. It's really disheartening.
I remember being in 3rd grade and vocabulary words we learned were things like "satisfaction", "confidence", "organization" and many of us passed with flying colors after a week of studying the words. 3rd graders now struggle spelling words like "focus", "box", and "dog" and these spelling mistakes are on projects taped in the hallways.
For the musician side of things, students are not practicing. Not even for a minimum of 10 minutes every couple days in between weekly lessons and this is something supposed to be agreed upon between the teacher, parent, and child. The teacher can't help the student progress if in a week's time they're stuck on the same position as they were previously and have already been given the tools and tips on how to work on advancing.
Also, more students are claiming of boredom, meanwhile the world being so full of things to do, especially when physically around friends, they start reaching for their chromebooks as a first means to satisfy that boredom.
No. 1921937
>>1921699By medication I also meant the infusions which worked very well (super fun fact, at some point a company offered a huge amount of those antibody infusions to my government for free and they turned them down saying they needed to focus on vaccinations instead) and you know they worked because every old ass politician or actor that got covid would buy them and they'd be fine in a few days kek. But we also used anti-inflammatory medicines early on like cortisone, another one was the Anakinra which they approved for covid only in 2022, then there was Sitagliptin that's used for diabetes. Ivermectin had some good results in america apparently. The thing was that doctors were trying to find treatments and actually had good results but they were punished for it because they had to follow useless protocols.
They also found out that putting people in respirators when it wasn't fully necessary actually harmed them more.
No. 1922159
>>1921852Previous generations use to literally kick their kids out and tell them to fuck off kek. The school system nowadays has disproportionate consequences for failure and common core completely ruined it even more
I saw this as an eldest sibling btw including to kids who are still in school. I remember back in my day I could fail a class or two and it's no big deal, now curriculum has gotten overly clogged with random shit especially for children that want to go to college, and then even failing a single class means you'd have to drop out of college programs. There's way more homework and projects, stricter punishments and rules for meaningless crap and now that technology is required in schools it's even worse. I think a lot of the "bad kid" situations are just situations of "you keep telling a kid they'll bad and they'll actually become it"
No. 1932168
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The pandemic honestly ruined everything for me personally, fandom and groups hobbies are now filled with random retards confusing the markets.
No. 1933334
>>1933262It's probably demographics of your area I guess. Here nobody has done much masking for years. Even during the lockdown when there were people getting sick en mass in my workspace people would brag abouy not washing their hands and pretend-cough on others, it was deranged. Covid hypochondriacs are a self correcting problem for me, they just deleted themselves from the public space so I don't really care what they're up to.
For stuff like pollen, taking the mask on/off risks getting pollen and stuff inside the car/on my hands and face, and it's just not worth the hassle for me if I have to get back out quickly. So even silly looking car-mask people might have an understandable reason.
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No. 1949076
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No. 1949077
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No. 1949078
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No. 1949079
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No. 1961707
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>>1949951I thought most maskers were just smug liberal, but I realize now the majority of them just had pre-existing psychological issues.
No. 1962619
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>>1961707This is honestly so true. Pic related, she went viral on right wing Twitter for being a greasy enby who’s obsessed with COVID and she still seems to be punching the air.
No. 2019821
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>7.4k likes
No. 2020709
>>2019855I played a small local show with my band sick this week and everyone knew I was sick and didn't care and did bisous anyway, I think most sane people have gone back to recognizing that you won't get sick somewhere with good ventilation just because someone near you is slightly sick. I know hardcore 'terrain theory' is seriously lacking but most people don't get sick from normal seasonal viruses unless they have a low/compromised immune system from something else (stress, cold, extreme heat, etc) or are spending a huge amount of time indoors with a sick person. I confidently hang out with very sick people when I'm feeling healthy and never get sick from them, but I get flus from absolutely nobody when I'm extremely stressed and sleep deprived.
The single most useful takeaway from the "pandemic" (I don't believe COVID was ever worse than regular flu and all the stats and literature on the topic bear this out) would have been to change worker/student protections to encourage sick people staying home and recovering, but that's the one thing that seems not to have lasted. Masks just straight up don't work (there's tons of evidence for this) unless they're basically army-issue gas masks/valved respirators, sanitizing everything doesn't work because most common viruses are airborne, making healthy asymptomatic people stay home because they 'tested positive' for something doesn't work, and obviously the useless 'vaccines' (which aren't a classical vaccine in any sense) didn't work and just gave people additional health issues. What 'works' is letting sick people stay home when their bodies are extremely stressed and avoiding trapping people in small unventilated rooms with actively sick people but that's the one thing that we can't do because it would hurt the current social order/bottom line of corporations. Everything else was just theater.
No. 2020738
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Ever since the pandemic a lot of companies seem to think that they're never accountable for anything ever, I assume because they got a lot of excuses and allowances during pandemic handouts. Places purposely understaffing with scammy methods (bait and switch on sign on bonuses, firing after the first week or two for vague reasons, simply not hiring in the first place, etc) and then trying to get benefits for "struggling to find employees"
A lot of businesses stopped catering to consumers, this includes shitting up reasonable hours and 24 hours shops are a thing of the past, I have local restaurants that literally are open for like 5 hours a week and blamed the pandemic. Wages seem to be getting worse while inflation is on the rise. Tipped workers are going through hell now with increased hostility against them for simply working, but also people not tipping and businesses are using wage rises as an excuse to quadruple prices, so instead of that 15 dollar meal with a 5 dollar tip people are paying damn near $100 for meals because they actually thought they could instill these laws without having anything written requiring companies to take slightly less profit
No. 2020786
>>2020738I'm gonna sound like some mega Adam Smithian capitalist saying this but I predicted 'hyperinflation' the second pandemic handouts became a thing because it was obvious with a low economy all that money would come from money printing. I know people who were entitled to pandemic handout money who chose not to take it just because they felt guilty about contributing to inflation. I also could tell back in 2020 that eviction freezes would just lead to more evictions and insane commercial and residential rent hikes later. Landlords couldn't wait to throw out their old tenants and double their rent.
The entire rhetoric about 'essential workers' was backwards to begin with. They were lauded for being 'essential' (like delivery drivers) but at the same time, were not subject to the same 'COVID protections' other people enjoyed. No 'real leftist' who thinks there's a killer virus going around should be happy exploiting a worker who has to deliver food to 50+ people a day or a cashier who interacts with 100s or 1000s of people per day face to face, yet they never spared a thought for these workers.
No. 2020889
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>>2020709very intelligent post
nonny No. 2020933
>>2020889can't tell if you're making fun of me lol
>>2020894I'm not saying essential workers weren't essential, I'm saying the mainstream attitude toward 'essential' workers was messed up and hypocritical. People would act like 'essential' workers (including delivery drivers/cashiers) were heroes but then they didn't think those people deserved any of the same 'protections' from disease that they personally thought they deserved. Like people I knew bragged about getting 3 meals a day delivered to their door but it never concerned them that the people delivering those meals were interacting with hundreds of people every day at their job. They would want people to not even sit together in parks but get outraged if there were cashier shortages/lineups in grocery stores because they 'need' people to sell them food, not wondering about the health of cashiers selling them the food. I think you read my post as sarcastic but it wasn't, I thought it was really aggravating that champagne socialists didn't worry at all about the people 'serving' them while they sat on their asses at home thinking they were heroic for doing so.
No. 2020952
>>2020898If it helps nona I also think it was calculated and more and more info is coming out (now that no one cares) proving this. Tons of FOIA emails coming out now talking about Fauci and other people in that circle actively hiding correspondence early in the 'pandemic' so no one could ever discover what they were really saying to each other back then, if they were just doing 'the best they could' at that moment they wouldn't have been conspiring to hide all their correspondences.
On the other hand I think not all the inflation was just 'greedflation' I think some of it was just due to the massive money printing devaluing money. But a lot of inflation (on stuff like rent etc) was absolutely just because landlords could get away with it, not that property ownership became way more expensive in the last 4 years.
No. 2020958
>>2020933>Like people I knew bragged about getting 3 meals a day delivered to their doorI don't know, sounds like those were just weird assholes, who brags about getting food delivered?? Maybe it's because i live in France, but it'd just be outrageous to brag about that or people getting offended there are not enough cashiers. I mean technically the problem here is not that people were called heroes, (because i do believe nurses are heroes) -not the argument then-, it's that you had a shit ton of hyprocrites.
Am i getting it right?
No. 2020967
>>2020958Hundreds of people I had on facebook would brag about how they were 'heroes' for not leaving their houses and getting everything delivered, I don't live in France tho. It was super common where I lived, like 90% of the people I personally know said this on social media. Whenever I would point out their hypocrisy to them they would call me a murderer and shit. I even got anonymous hate mail to my home address for calling them out.
I didn't say anything about nurses to begin with, I don't think most nurses were heroes at all but my issue is not with people who physically went and did their jobs, it's everyone else who paid lip service to them being 'heroic' while also willingly exposing them to 'the deadly virus' as much as possible and not feeling bad about it in the slightest. So yes, hypocrites.
No. 2020999
>>2020980>>2020967I mentionned nurses because to me it's an easy example of what we could consider heroes, even if i think delivery is a necesary service (kinda), nurses are a more explicit example. In France, we barely had enough beds for people so nurses were doing crazy shifts which is why they were respected. Their health and sanity were at risks, not only that but because they're made of mostly women and immigrants women, they were highly appraised for their services.
>>2020980No not as far as i'm aware, we were considering public servants as "heroes" but not people staying inside as heroes. Which is why i was confused. Some people were being bitches about getting the vaccin though, about how they were better than others because they were doing the "right thing" and that shit pissed me off so bad.
No. 2021011
>>2020999Again I don't believe most people were 'heroes' because I don't believe anyone actually in the thick of it could reasonably have believed that COVID was particularly more dangerous than other diseases, I also have a lot of people in my family and friend group who are doctors or nurses or nurses aides and I've heard way too many stories from them about how cynical their coworkers were about the whole thing to think of them as 'heroes.' But at least the ones who continued to go to work were providing a necessary service to humanity instead of sitting on their butts at home thinking they were doing something amazing by locking themselves in their houses. In my expereince if you look into most of the places that 'barely had enough beds' for people they actually had enough beds, they were just shortstaffed because a lot of medical staff were sent home and a lot of wards were closed off to people who had positive COVID tests or vice versa. I know it was really tough for doctors and nurses but I think mostly not for the reasons the media said it was. And FWIW two of my relatives were immigrant nursing assistants in the UK during this and they said they were treated like trash during the whole thing and found the pot and pan banging an insulting slap in the face.
Re: the heroes thing makes sense that you were confused if it wasn't a thing in your media, it was a huge thing here though and a huge slap in the face imo to people who kept doing their jobs. I agree regarding the vaccine, where I live vaccination rates were so high and we were treated like literal vermin if we weren't vaccinated, with people acting like it was some huge noble sacrifice to get the vaccine they wanted because they thought it would protect them anyway. In my experience all these people couldn't wait to get vaccinated, then a ton of them had severe side effects and reactions to the vaccine and got even more mad at people who didn't take it because the fact they had horrible side effects to the '100% safe' vaccine made them resentful of people who chose not to take it. Then it turned out it was never even tested for interrupting transmission chains anyway so the whole thing was a farce.
No. 2021035
>>2021011Obviously nurses are not actual perfect heroes, we hear all the time about how nurses can be bitches, it's about the service they land. Covid saturated understaffed hospitals, even if it were not for the danger of the Covid itself we're talking about dangerously overworked personel exposed to a virus that had a consequently higher lethality rate than the average virus.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00023-5/fulltext>France has lower availability and accessibility of ICU beds, and more regional disparities than Germany, Luxembourg and Austria [4]. Differences in ICU resources were associated with differences in COVID-19 related case fatality ratio [4]. After the first wave, there were 502 and 119 deaths per million inhabitants in France and Germany, respectively. Up to first week of March, there were around 45 ICU patients nationwide. As of March 16, while there were more ICU patients than ICU beds [5] President Emmanuel MACRON proclaimed the general lockdown. Meanwhile they kept on closing beds!
No. 2021047
>>2021035I'm not saying they weren't heroes because 'nurses are bitches' I'm saying they weren't heroes because most nurses working in hospitals knew that COVID wasn't actually a big deal from their personal in-hospital experiences. Working in understaffed conditions sucks but isn't heroic, a lot of nurses made the most money ever by picking up extra shifts due to the understaffing and the understaffing was directly caused by government anyway. COVID did not have a higher lethality than other common viruses.
The thing a lot of people not in the medical system don't seem to understand is 'availability of beds' (ICU or otherwise) refers to staffing, not beds themselves, and most government run medical systems deliberately shortstaffed during COVID. So when they say there weren't enough beds they actually mean there wasn't enough staff, and there wasn't enough staff not because staff were unwilling to work but because of regulations that deliberately understaffed hospitals and clinics.
No. 2021049
>>2021045Yeah a lot of nursing bachelors degrees in my country just stopped giving people clinical hours lmao and either wouldn't graduate people or would graduate them with no clinical experience so then they couldn't get hired.
I'm also close friends with a few doctors who had just finished their residencies around 2020 and all of them were sent home and told to 'wait' because their services were nonessential, 2 that I know of were GPs one a pediatrician and one a psychiatrist. They were just told 'we don't need you so you can't work for the next year' and had to sit on their asses doing nothing even though they were trained in/had done clinical rotations in ER and trauma clinics too.
No. 2021051
>>2021047That's within the frame of whether or not you believe Covid was a serious threat. You had many nurses that partaked in the idea that they were at risk themselves. And i'm saying even if Covid is not an instant-killer, overworked, underpaid nurses are "heroes" even if they're not dead in a war. That also depends on your standard of what makes an hero, but to me, to sacrifice your own health to help others (because at any time they could say fuck this and just get unemployement welfare), is a leap many wouldnt do.
When it comes to ICU beds, it's really an autistic argument at this point, my point was to underline logistical problems, we could also talk about the lack of space in urgent care. I remember when i was in the urgent psychiatric care they didnt have a bed or a room for me.
No. 2021060
>>2021051Yeah this is all from my personal anecdotal experience and those of people I know, I'm sure there were some nurses who thought it was a very serious threat but the nurses I personally know mostly said that most people they worked with didn't think COVID itself was especially dangerous and were not particularly paranoid. Many of them got shifts cut or laid off entirely unless they were willing to travel and work for freelance agencies, even though they had no fear of working there. A couple of my relatives who worked in nursing said the first year to year and a half of COVID was the 'easiest' job they'd ever had, they were admitting barely any patients and do-gooders were bringing them free pizzas and takeout meals constantly, they said they were dying of boredom if anything while the news media reported there were 'not enough beds' but they said that was mostly because of doctors being sent home en masse. Nurses already sign up to sacrifice their own health to deal with sick people all day, COVID is one of the less dangerous illnesses people can contract from working in nursing.
I don't think it's autistic to draw a distinction between 'not enough beds' meaning 'not enough room for patients' or 'not enough beds' meaning 'the government decreed that 50% of doctors should go home so now there's not enough doctors to treat people.' It's actually a very important distinction because it was the government willfully leaving people to die or get sick knowing they didn't have to.
No. 2021085
>>2021069I mean i've had covid and it's definitely nastier than the average flu, my immune system is pretty strong, i don't often catch anything, i've caught covid many times, and the first time i had it, i was passing out from the fever, lost 2kg, and was in the bed for 7 days (i'm 22 years old), i kept on catching it because i was travelling and it got less bad with time, the 2nd time was pretty bad too but not as bad as the first one. I think the lethality rate is 2 times higher than the average affluenza. But the lockdown, health passport and everything? I think it's a mix of countries trying to figure out the limits of their despotism, incompetent politicians filled with actual paranoia, and lobbying to get the vaccin to make banks.
No. 2021090
>>2021085When I had COVID it was the mildest cold I've had in a decade, how a specific respiratory virus affects you just depends on the person. I lost 10kg in 2 weeks from a UTI the year before but when I had COVID I was still professionally recording music in my home studio because it barely even gave me the sniffles.
Most science papers released now put the IFR in exactly the range of 'normal' flus but it will differ from person to person. There were also some locations that had a very high mortality rate due to doing medically irresponsible things like ventilating or refusing patients 'normal' antiviral or antibacterial drugs.
No. 2021095
>>2021092I think the public wanted a "pandemic moment" just as much. Has everyone forgotten the first month or two as the lockdowns were building up to being announced and there was "two weeks to stop the spread"? All the memes, and way people were talking about it, made it out to be some heccin' wholesome historical moment we were all united in going through. People even talked about how the feeling of solidarity was similar to that feeling for the first few weeks after 9/11. Then quickly that wholesome optimism turned to fanaticism.
This had been building for at least 13 years at this point. I grew up in a household that had the news running 24/7 and I remember at least once a year the news was trying to make "bird flu" or "swine flu" a thing and fearmongering.
No. 2021102
>>2021099Sorry to be clear T-cell memory isn't a problem, T-cell memory is good. It's specific antibodies that can be harmful. If you have T-cell memory it should help you kill the virus.
The problem with the vaccine is multifold, to sum it up it introduces (harmful) COVID spike proteins into your entire body (which you wouldn't get from the natural virus), it can persist much longer than a natural infection, your own cells are producing the protein forcing your immune system to kill your own healthy cells, it can spread to parts of the body it wouldn't normally spread to, and it can cause immune tolerance antibodies to develop. I think some scientists were also concerned about 'immune imprinting' where if you had a vaccine based on the original strain of the virus and blasted your body with that, rather than other genetic code from the capsid etc. of the actual virus, you would 'imprint' just that one spike protein on your immune system and it would struggle to deal with mutations of the virus, and some studies kind of bore that out too although not as directly.
No. 2021110
>>2021105Yes. The purpose of the mRNA of the vaccine is to prompt your own cells to translate it into the spike protein. This spike protein produced in your own cells will then present on your own cell walls. When your immune cells encounter it (if you have a functioning immune system) they will then kill your own healthy cells which are presenting the 'viral' spike protein.
This is most likely why conditions like myocarditis are unusually common after vaccination especially in young people with active circulatory systems. If the vaccine is 'too efficient' and produces spike protein on 'too many' of your cardiac cells it can lead to scarring from your immune system attacking too many of your own healthy cells. The whole purpose of the mRNA is to make your own body 'make' the virus in your own cells, but instead of all the harmless parts of the virus it's just the most harmful part (spike protein). This also means there are fewer viral target for your body to recognize if you actually contract COVID. And you don't necessarily have the same immune cells in the rest of your body as you do in your upper respiratory mucosa, which probably explains why they eventually admitted the vaccine doesn't help stop mild cases of COVID, because the immune cells that recognize COVID are not common in the part of your body that first encounters the SARS-CoV-2 virus which would be your upper respiratory tract.
No. 2021116
>>2021111I'll tell you a secret nona as someone who is 'part of the scientific community' the vaccination rate among my colleagues was much lower than average. There was actually a study showing the lowest vaccination rate was among people holding a PhD degree published at some point, but from my personal experience a lot of people at my level of education/in my educational institution either didn't take it at all or didn't want to take it. A lot ended up reluctantly taking it because of laws in our country/region or regulations at our university basically removing all your rights in society and all your privileges at your job or you didn't get vaccinated. So a lot of people I know ended up taking it after trying to hold off for as long as possible.
I think another aspect of why a lot of people took it is that science is very specialized now and a lot of scientists don't specialize in this, they just 'trust scientists' like laypeople do if they're not in their specific subfield. So I know for example some biochemists in my personal circle who just assumed the COVID vaccine was basically like a 'regular' vaccine, and only found out later that it wasn't, because they weren't personally looking into details about it. I think that's another factor. There's some fairly famous biologists online who now admit to regretting the vaccine because they didn't 'look into' the details of it when they first took it, like the people from darkhorse podcast who are bio profs. I'm actually not in this specific field of biology but due to having my spidey senses
triggered by other aspects of the pandemic science I ended up doing a deep dive into what the vaccine was before considering getting it and came away with the idea that it's dangerous, but even when I talked to other scientist friends/colleagues a lot of them acted like I was completely crazy when I explained how the vaccine worked because by traditional standards it's not how any other vaccine has worked. They just heard the word 'vaccine' and assumed it would work like other vaccines. People will shit on you for being a tinfoil hatter but it is quite literally a genetic therapy, and there are even videos of speeches given by the CEO of Moderna early in 2020 talking about how it's a genetic therapy. They just were savvy and rebranded before releasing it.
No. 2021118
>>2021113Yes that's one of the main problems. In theory the vaccine should stay in the deltoid muscle of the arm (muscle cells regenerate easily so it's fine to lose them) but in reality studies showed that it circulated throughout the body.
T-cells don't produce the proteins. T-cells serve a bunch of functions but to simplify it extremely T-cells usually are the 'killer' cells that kill the cells presenting the antigen. The cells that 'remember' the virus are different than the cells that present the antigen.
No. 2021123
>>2021104tbf it was always clear that there would be another pandemic. You can take a look at how often pandemics historically occurred. it was just a matter of time. That movie Contagion was the best representation of a pandemic I've ever seen, and that came out in 2011. I watched it on a plane and was extremely uncomfortable the rest of the flight, kek. I think scientists were assuming the next pandemic would be a flu, though.
On an unrelated note, what the FUCK is with the water in the UK, do they not treat that shit now? I lived there for awhile and can't remember beaches getting closed for poo or fucking parasites in the water. If you haven't read "The Sheep Look Up" by John Brunner, I highly recommend it, because it feels like that's the world we are in right now.
No. 2021130
>>2021127Yeah there literally were not any studies completed on pregnant and nursing women (and still aren't any major ones) when they started recommending it/forcing it on pregnant women. Personally I'd say at least half of non-pregnant women I knew had period/repro issue problems following the vaccine and of the few pregnant women I know who took it, maybe like half had miscarriages but I hear that's pretty normal. I think the one exploratory study by Pfizer found more miscarriages than normal and some other anecdotal evidence from maternity wards also suggests that but it's hard to even figure out how much of that is real because no one was willing to study it, they just decided pregnant women and their progeny could basically be chattel to experiment on while assuring them it's 'safe and effective.' I also know some pregnant women who were dead set on getting vaccinated because they thought their newborns would die of COVID even though it has less of an effect on babies than regular respiratory illnesses do.
In the initial Pfizer trials they wouldn't even let a man with a pregnant wife or girlfriend participate in the study unless he isolated from his pregnant wife/gf because they were afraid of potential shedding, lmao but somehow like 3 months later they just unilaterally decided it's safe for pregnancy.
No. 2021266
>>2021192I'm happy for you you weren't affected much on a personal level but I was mostly thinking about how the pandemic redestributed a lot of money to the rich and made millions of additional people fall into poverty world wide, it's severely affected mental health globally and stunted the development of our youth and just generally hit young and vulnerable peiple the hardest. I really don't want that to happen again, we've got enough shit to deal with these coming decades.
Or god forbid, a black plague-esque pandemic with far more lethal consequences than corona ever had. Lowkey tinfoiling here but with the risk of biowarfare and climate change exposing viruses that haven't been allowed to spread in millions of years, I can see something like that potentially happen.
No. 2022153
Quarantine just exposed how psychotic the average person is, truly.
American lockdown was literally nothing, what shops had reduced hours, you had to wear a mask and go to school from home? Cry me a fucking river, people still vacationed, and shopped in malls, and went to events and everything else
And this isn't to support the people who were straight up psycho about lockdown either. It's like everyone suddenly flipped a switch and became too stupid to remember how viruses work, I've had people tell me going for a jog in an empty neighborhood is killing grandma cause I could give my non existent COVID to cars that pass by, the whole "pulling your mask down to take a sip" thing, people who wore masks in their own home to protect their cat or just the amount of mask rules that made zero fucking sense. Despite all this they'll cry bloody murder about how anti vaxxers and anti maskers are worse than hitler or something
The scalpers to, how many people panic brought fucking toilet paper like ??? Get a fucking bidet and get canned food instead. Are Americans that fucking stupid they can't be asked to use a bidet and spend their money on something that would actually help them if they have COVID?
Unquestionable doctor worship - despite everyone and their mom having at least one story where they got fucked over by a doctor who didnt listen, the whole "shut up and listen to doctors" was on repeat, even when they claimed masks make COVID worse and then demanded masks in the car alone next minute, no on questioned. Oh and the bloody vaccine, even simply questioning the effectiveness of it when people were still getting COVID despite being vaccinated made people foam at the mouth, they won't even apologize for literally demanding deaths of anti vaxxers for simply asking what doctors later admitted themselves (so much for "shutting up and listening to doctors" when they can't support their fear mongering I guess?)
No. 2022351
>>2022348following the playbook line by line I see a la
>>2022329 kek
>and if it was worse for you then well, you're fat or you're weak or you're old or your birthday is in june or you ate carrots the day beforeYes me and my whole fit healthy family and everyone who got very sick with this strain at my workplace are all just weak losers, unlike you. That's a more feasible explanation than considering that maybe your "it's just a cold" theory is flawed.
No. 2022638
>>2021008I live near a bunch of restaurants that just don't let people eat inside anymore - it's just takeout or if they have outdoor seating you can sit outside. I know one of them is owned by an antivaxxer because I was hired to work there before the pandemic hit and they laid me off during lockdown.
>>2022629YES this is not talked about enough. I thought it was fucking crazy when I stopped in a chain bookstore and 1/3 of the shelves were manga. Too bad most of it isn't even good kek
No. 2022647
>>2022394Does it shock you that there were occupations pre-pandemic that require people to wear masks all day? Funny how everyone tries to act like an edgelord like
>>2021863about the pandemic but as soon as someone mentions masks it's all whining
>>2022644>fast foodI guess I should have specified local, family-owned businesses. Of course big chains are going to roll back their policies.
No. 2022652
>>2022578Surgical masks do not prevent viral infection. The actual purpose of surgical masks is
>>2022610. A surgical mask doesn't filter out virions because the mesh used isn't fine enough to do so. Masks that are capable of blocking the inhalation of virions do exist, they're sold as rated masks usually N95/FPP3 or higher. This is what should have been recommended instead of surgical masks. Instead people touching their faces to put on, adjust and remove masks probably increased the risk of infection because the most common route of infection is people touching contaminated surfaces and then touching their mouth, nose and eyes.
No. 2022658
>>2022652also
>muh east asia!!east asia never had any reduced rates of the virus, or any illness in general, they still have flu season and outbreaks like everyone else. The only thing that got us through the pandemic was just letting the virus run it's course, build up our immune system and moved on, thats how we handled every other cold being passed around
No. 2022665
>>2022650New England.
>I've lived in 6 different cities across the US throughout COVID, every single one, including mom and pop businesses have returned to normalDamn, every. Single. Restaurant and business, chain or family-owned, in SIX American cities?? With all that knowledge you should work for The Food Network or the Department of Consumer Protections instead of posting on anonymous image boards on a holiday.
No. 2022685
>>2022683>you're insisting your area is totally still on lockdownNever said that
>because of the evil anti vaxxers Also did not call my ex-boxx evil, kek
>can't even name your general areaNot doxxing myself since I already mentioned working for a local business
>then mock my own input because it doesn't fit your biasBecause you sound like a retard trying to puff yourself up because you traveled a couple times and know where Ivy league schools are.
(infighting) No. 2022693
>>2022685What you live in a town of 5 people or something? No one is gonna dox you because of your general city/location
>Because you sound like a retard trying to puff yourself up because you traveled a couple times and know where Ivy league schools are.You sound bitter, I just mentioned my input because I know the first reaction would be "well your area isn't my area!!". Arguers like you are a paradox, first you'll invalidate my opinion because of x reasons then when it turns out x reasons aren't true you'll just mock me and put me down because it didn't turn out how you wanted
(infighting) No. 2023159
>>2022765Don't bother anon, the vaccine shills will gaslight anyone saying that no one ever said the vaccines prevented infection and spread, while we all remember that every government demanded everyone take it because "it'll stop the spread!! It'll protect you for five years! 100% immunity!". My country's president even said, word for word, "If you don't vaccinate yourself you'll get sick and die, and you'll make other people get sick and die.". Everyone was going on and on about the social duty, that it was to help the fragile people, herd immunity yada yada. But oop, as soon as Pfizer got caught not testing for any of this suddenly no one said a thing about spread and everyone was aware of it. Sorry but people haven't forgotten.
>>2022578>Muh westenersKek no. Most people, even the based asians, don't know how to properly use masks. Setting aside the fact that for a whole year the wrong type of masks were recommended (surgical masks were useless for covid), the face masks only work if they're made of plastic (so the DIY cloth ones were useless), they're fit to your face, they're changed every day and kept on all the time without touching them to udjust them or setting them on surfaces or in bags where they're going to spread the germs everywhere including your hands, clothes and hair. And sanitizers work of you continuously use them. Sorry, but masks only work in higly controlled environments or if used for brief encounters. I am a mask enthusiast but sadly they don't work if used so much in these circumstances.
No. 2023589
File: 1716858666610.jpg (56.04 KB, 750x562, image.jpg)
>>2022346you seem to like jumping to conclusions a lot. might I recommend thy fair nona a trampoline park?
No. 2023677
>>2023667I caught COVID but did not get the vaccine.
Was literally a two day cold for me.
No. 2023697
>>2023677Yeah I got the first 'deadliest' strain early on before vaccines were even available and I just had a mild cough and sore throat for about 3-4 days, not even a temperature. I literally get 38 degree C fevers just from being on my period but COVID didnt even give me a temp. Most of the people I knew got it around the same time and said it was mild, a few people had a worse flu-like illness but nothing really shocking.
Then all the people who had gotten it before and didn't get vaccinated continued to never get COVID again go figure. We develop natural immunity to viruses.
No. 2023718
>>2022568let me lay out why what you said makes no sense:
>only 7% of people ended up with long COVIDbut also
>it was "just a cold"the common cold does not cause long term lasting adverse health effects in 7% of the population. Also, I don't think you realize how significant a number 7% is. 7% of people who catch it get lasting health damage? That is a crazy high number of people, nearly 1/10th! Then when you scale it up to basically the entire world population, 7% of
that, absolutely fucking enormous.
>inb4 "oh but those are just the oldies and the sickies tho"even if that was true (it's not), you're suggesting we shouldn't care about the health of the elderly or the disabled or the chronically ill? I have a healthy 21 y/o immune system and it was juusssst a cold for me, sucks to suck I guess! Fuck everyone who isn't me, why even consider the effects on their lives. me me me me me.
No. 2023719
File: 1716868683402.png (237.69 KB, 674x828, NYTvaxinjury.png)
>>2023714Samefag nevermind, it was in NYT. This is the most extreme case they mention and they keep repeating that mRNA vax was miraculous and wonderful and the SE were rare but the fact they're mentioning serious cases like imgrel at all is interesting because it would not have happened a couple years ago.
No. 2023720
>>2023697I think it depends on genetics tbh. I had a coworker who got it really bad early in the pandemic, and she permanently lost her ability to smell. She was the lead cook at a restaurant, so not being able to smell definitely made her job a little more challenging. Personally, my case was moderate, basically just a slightly worse version of the flu where I lost my voice for a few days.
I'm grateful my dad never caught it, he's a lifelong smoker with chronic bronchitis and I think it genuinely could have killed him. I think the precautions were overkill, but it's hard to say. It's not like we have a window into another reality where there were fewer restrictions, unfortunately, so we can only speculate.
No. 2023722
>>2023718Long COVID doesn't even have a clear definition, the symtpoms can be anything, most people who had it were people who already had prior chronic illnesses or were in munchie communities, and post-viral syndromes actually were not super rare before either. Again it's just a case of no one talking about other illnesses beyond COVID having risks, like this is the first viral illness that's ever made people sick before.
The common cold does cause long term health effects in tons of people, especially older or immunocompromised people, but notably it wasn't a common munchie dx because most munchies didn't know it existed. Add to that that long COVID seems especially common in vaccinated people and thus might also include mysterious vax injury patients, it makes sense why it would be reported at 7% in some studies. There are other common viruses that have higher rates of post-viral complications reported anyway, like mono.
> you're suggesting we shouldn't care about the health of the elderly or the disabled or the chronically ill? Seems like you only started caring when you personally got COVID and had a rough time, since you still years later appear to believe no one ever got sick from other cold/flu like illnesses before. A very "me me me" attitude if I ever saw one.
No. 2023729
>>2023720Yeah I know someone who permanently lost their ability to smell from a different cold virus in like 2017. It does suck but it happens sometimes. I agree it can be genetic but it can also be related to other factors in your life like whether you are mentally healthy at that moment, emotionally healthy, eat well, get enough sleep, etc.
Interesting factoid though, most studies showed smoking was protective against severe COVID, which makes sense because COVID ACE2 attaches to receptors that are also acted upon by nicotine.
The restrictions did nothing positive, we know that because there were countries without those restrictions with similar climates and they had better outcomes. We also know the restrictions didn't work because almost everyone caught COVID even in the areas with the highest levels of restrictions, and vaccinated people were more likely to catch COVID even than unvaccinated people. So we do know that they mostly did nothing in terms of transmission, which makes sense because none of the restrictions would logically help for an airborne easy to spread virus and that's why pandemic planning for decades had already warned against using such restrictions for viruses.
No. 2023739
>>2023734Samefagging but specifically old and immunocompromised people were always dying from 'the common cold' so when people point out that COVID has a lower mortality rate than flu and a similar mortality rate to some other colds and people say 'omg you don't care about the elderly' they're just telling on themselves. The elderly always died from 'just a cold.'
>>2023737Yes, 'just' a cold means something different for everyone and always has. COVID was not more deadly or dangerous than other colds, it just media boosted that some people (especially very old people) can get very sick from colds, which I guess a lot of people didn't realize before.
No. 2023746
>>2023743The majority of scientists publishing studies on COVID mortality said it was in the range of a common cold, except at the very beginning of 2020 when everyone was freaking out and basing papers on mathematical model projections.
The WHO official website had an article estimating COVID mortality that put the IFR at 0.14% like I said, in the range of other colds. You would be hard pressed to find any IFR study that isn't from early 2020 that says it's way more severe than the common cold, but you're welcome to try.
No. 2023748
>>2023729I've seen the kind of studies you're talking about. They often speculate that the impact of nicotine on COVID vulnerability and symptoms is highly dose-depedent. Additionally, nicotine and smoking are not one in the same, because you can be addicted to nicotine without smoking, and you can smoke non-nicotine products. There are a lot of confounding variables that make it a tricky, burgeoning area of study. Add the replication crisis on top of that and you have a messier picture altogether.
I don't think there's any harm in assuming that COVID is harder on smokers until there's concrete, replicable data that not only proves otherwise but also isolates the variable that causes the reduction in risk. I'm sure there's more research coming down the pike as far as that goes. I'm not discounting your perspective, I just think that it's better to be proven wrong when you err on the side of caution than it is to be proven wrong after being reckless.
No. 2023754
>>2023748The studies I saw were population studies on hospital admissions/disease severity in places like China/Japan, a bunch of these studies found that smokers were far less likely to be hospitalized from COVID than non-smokers (and I don't think they asked about nicotine gum or vaping which isn't common in those areas). I haven't seen any controlled studies but multiple studies all showing the low rates of hospitalization in smokers are fairly compelling, especially since we know about the ACE2 action on the same receptors as nicotine.
I even saw some western hospitalization data that had smokers as lower-risk and the authors mentioned it was an 'unexpected' result but it was there a lot. I would not assume smokers are more at risk, since there is no real reason to assume they would be.
No. 2023756
File: 1716870190470.jpg (13.76 KB, 680x111, lolandlmao.JPG)
>>2023753kek, she deleted, I guess because she knew it made her look like a retard.
No. 2023795
>>2023784Here's a couple articles from which you can estimate IFR in flu for some years (one of them is CFR but you can kind of extrapolate from infection numbers)
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21629683/https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21694769/From healthfeedback: "As far as the flu is concerned, the estimation of infections and deaths due to seasonal flu for the past years provides a way to determine the IFR. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimates that 35.5 million people got the flu during the 2018-2019 flu season and 34,200 died from it, which yields an IFR of 0.1%. According to those CDC estimates, the flu IFR ranged from 0.1% to 0.17% from 2014 to 2019."
Here's some for COVID:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36341800/https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33768536/So based on these papers COVID IFR is either right in line with or actually substantially lower than it is for flu, maybe with the exception of very elderly (above 85) populations where it might be slightly (but not much) higher.
No. 2023803
File: 1716873495675.png (156.54 KB, 766x625, covidIFRstudy.png)
>>2023795Samefag, here's a screenshot of one of the COVID IFR study abstracts.
No. 2023804
File: 1716873656780.png (145.36 KB, 766x625, IFRCOVIDincludingelderly.png)
>>2023795Samefag again 2nd screenshot that includes elderly (estimating an IFR similar to that of flu from the CDC which also includes elderly)
No. 2023840
>>2023835Samefag but if you were aware of some of these scientists before lockdowns it was really obvious that there was some kind of censorship of wrongthink going on right at the beginning and people with rational opinions about what to do were being picked off like flies by the establishment, lots of really reputable scientists got publicly smeared and had their Wikipedia pages edited when they spoke out about anything while random humanities profs like Devi Sridhar or 'doctors' with fake credentials like Eric Feigl-Ding were signal boosted like crazy. But if you were paying attention you noticed some really weird things, like Kristian Andersen of the NIH thinking it was a lab leak and then suddenly claiming it was not a few weeks later (FOIA leaks showed the email chains and that they were being pressured). A notable one was Michael Osterholm who was already famous for writing a book about how a big pandemic is coming. In March 2020 he wrote for like the NYT or Atlantic or something about how retardedly stupid implementing lockdowns/"social distancing" would be, then shortly afterward he changed his tune and went really hard for lockdowns with no explanation and no reference to his previous beliefs or how they changed. Then he became Biden's COVID Czar. He was also posting CIDRAP (biggest evidence based medicine resource in the US) articles and podcasts talking about how useless masks are and how the whole 'wear masks' thing was a farce and was started by non-scientists, but publicly he was going on the news and telling people to wear masks.
I'm just saying this because earlier in the thread someone said 'oh if scientists knew what the vaccine was why did they take it/why didn't they speak out?' but from way before the vax rollout you constantly saw scientists either do a huge about-turn on their concerns or get slandered in the media/fired/demonized and most of the talking heads in the media weren't even real scientists or practicing doctors. People flipped out at one of the Nobel prize winners in science because he had more accurate predictive models of COVID spread/mortality and claimed he was a statistician/biochemist not an epidemiologist and should shut up, meanwhile Ferguson was some failed physics PhD who got into computer models.
No. 2023853
>>2023848I spent a huge amount of my adult life in grad school (technically 'full time' employment with a wage/stipend but there was no specific rule around not taking sick days) and even though technically I could take off days without a doctor's note for stuff like TAing/teaching/lab work, and even classes, if you actually did this you would be so screwed. I remember right before I was hospitalized with sepsis I still went to teach my class earlier that day because if I didn't I would be in so much trouble and probably never get a teaching position again, and then when I had to take time off because I had developed sepsis and might be dying everyone just acted like a kidney infection is no big deal, 'isn't that like a UTI?' etc. and except for one prof who was worried about me people refused to give me extensions and my boss asked me if I'm 'not enjoying the work anymore.'
That's part of why it annoys me when people say 'COVID isn't like all those MILD infections that never hurt anyone,' when I dealt with shit like that people all acted like it was no big deal and even if I was 'technically' allowed not to come to work they acted like I was a criminal for not showing up with a 42 degree celsius fever and blood infection lmao.
Even the doctor's note thing is kind of counterproductive because when you're sick with an influenza or something like that you shuold be resting in bed, not dragging yourself to a doctor's office to spread more germs just to sit there for 5 hours in an uncomfortable chair and give a note for why you couldn't sit at a desk at work for 8 hours instead. Unfortunately in really exploitative environments the 'honor system' isn't accepted.
No. 2023875
>>2023869I somewhat agree with this especially like the r/ZeroCovid people who seem to absolutely love following rules, but it doesn't explain some of what I've seen irl. Like two examples of people I know personally, one is a not-very-famous local indie musician in my country who I have seen live a few times and whose musician FB page I follow, until this day I swear to god he's posting like 4-6x per day about how deadly COVID is and how it's still killing millions of people and how the government is evilly pretending it's not happening, saying musicians should only play masked and socially distanced shows requiring COVID tests (are they even available anymore?) The irony is he was this counterculture 'rebel' type of musician who always satirized politics, god wasted at shows, etc. not like the kind of person you would expect to be a goody-two-shoes at all. The other one is my high school history teacher who actually got temporarily fired/investigated because he was so bad at following 'rules' and would not closely follow the curriculum/said non-PC things in class all the time, the exact opposite type of person I'd expect to want to follow COVID rules. But he is still posting on social media about how he hates people who don't wear masks anymore and how people can't do 'basic kindness' in society to protect others.
With these types of people I assume it's not a rule-following bent but more that they used to be deep/counterculture thinkers and they were mindbroken by being so wrong/falling on the wrong side of this issue in the end, like they can't cope with the fact they were freaking out for no reason and got taken in by the same mass-media shit they supposedly hated. So now they feel like martyrs who have figured out the real truth which is that COVID continues to be superdeadly and masks continue to work super well, while everyone else who moved on are the crazy ones.
No. 2023879
>>2023877Well that's what most normies did, right? I think normies acted deranged in 2020, maybe 2021 about vaccines, because there was a mass social contagion, and then everything just kind of petered out without mass death and when the economy was collapsing too much and everyone got bored most people went back to ignoring that COVID ever happened and decided 'the pandemic is over' at some random point in time (not because COVID was less prevalent lol). Then when everyone goes back to normalcy most normies will just memoryhole every crazy thing they did because they don't want to deal with how cruel they were to family, friends, etc.
But there's a certain type of person that gets so much of their self-esteem from feeling better than other people that they can't let go and just quietly accept they were wrong/panicking for no real reason.
No. 2023886
>>2023883When I got it in March 2020 it also felt like a mild cold lol. If you actually google 'what are COVID symptoms and how do they differ from other cold/flu viruses' there is nothing. Doctors and scientists will admit that all the symptoms are indistinguishable from other ILI.
You may not have, but plenty of people passed out from other cold viruses, lost massive weight from other cold viruses, had digestive issues from other cold viruses, have horrible headache from other cold viruses, or had 'chest' colds/coughs. I had all the symptoms you're describing from other ILI including being bedridden for over a month, but not from COVID.
No. 2023891
>>2023886Samefag but just as an example of someone who wasn't me experiencing this, my nigel back in like 2018 who I was living with who was a super healthy, athletic person who rarely got sick and was already nearly underweight to begin with got a flu back then that knocked him out so hard for over a month he had to delay graduating for a semester. He lost like 12kg (25ish lbs) in a month or two to the point of people being horrified that he looked emaciated, was literally delirious and hallucinating at home for days at a time, threw up everything he ate, etc. He said it took him at least 1-2 months to even recover and feel remotely normal again and he actually had to defer school for 4 months because it ruined all his plans. Unless you're saying COVID was circulating in 2018 it wasn't COVID, the doctors told him it was 'most likely influenza' and he was one of those people who has a pretty good immune system normally. No one could tell him why this particular flu hit him so hard. He was like screaming absolute gibberish at the walls in our living room and hallucinating people who weren't there in between 20 hour periods of napping, for weeks.
So yeah sometimes some viruses hit some people harder than other ones do but this was never unheard of prior to COVID, it was just one of those things people didn't share on social media much because people would call them weak. Back then everyone made fun of him for having to defer school for a semester because of 'just a cold.'
No. 2023901
File: 1716886805187.png (38.42 KB, 737x403, excessmortality2020-21.png)
>>2023894My goodwill is already running thin since I took the time to cite sources for the IFR stats to people who kept refusing to post sources for their 'COVID was way deadlier than flu I swear' claims (only to then be characterized by you as someone citing all my roommates exclusively) but sure I can throw you another few links quickly although this only scratches the surface, I'm too lazy to do a deep cut. Here's a 2021 resource from Oxford Evidence Based Medicine showing Sweden (which was supposed to have a million gazillion deaths due to almost no lockdown mandates) had a lower excess mortality than most of Europe:
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/excess-mortality-across-countries-in-2020/Another study showing Sweden had slightly higher excess mortality than Norway in 2020 but it was likely due to them having a low-mortality year in 2019 (which makes it even more striking they had a very low mortality year in 2020 compared to the rest of Europe and the US):
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8807990/Here's a news article talking about it, imgrel also shows that Japan (which had very few mandatory restrictions) had a much lower excess mortality rate:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/swedens-death-rate-among-lowest-europe-despite-avoiding-strict/Another news article where the author did their own additional analysis:
https://reason.com/volokh/2023/01/10/no-lockdown-sweden-seemingly-tied-for-lowest-all-causes-mortality-in-oecd-since-covid-arrived/Another science article showing Sweden had slightly higher excess mortality than Norway in 2020, but Norway had higher excess mortality the following years:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38499977/That's just the example of Sweden which was the main non-lockdown country in Europe, but excess mortality calculations for poor/global south countries with fewer restrictions also usually show them having less COVID deaths overall, you can probably check this on worldometers or something I'm getting a bit lazy.
As for most people having contracted COVID at some point, there were seroprevalence studies done in a whole bunch of countries but take Canada, that had some of the strictest lockdowns in the world, for example - statscan reports that by 2022 98% had antibodies and at least 54% were still showing antibodies from a previous infection, not the vaccine (although antibodies from infection apparently peter out pretty quickly in many cases so this suggests many had it later/multiple times despite vaccination):
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/230327/dq230327b-eng.htmIf you're really interested you can look in the linked studies to the seroprevalence studies I previously posted on COVID, these should have estimates for how many people had seroconverted COVID antibodies at various points in time (the numbers are usually very high/a majority of the population by late 2020/early 2021, prior to vaccine rollout). I won't link every one of the studies here but they are linked in the article I previously posted.
If you want to see just how little the 'vaccine' did you only have to look at Australia, which managed to close its borders such that most Australians had supposedly not gotten COVID by 2022 (but almost the entire population was vaccinated at that point). Somehow although infection-related antibody seroprevalence in Aus was only 17% in early 2022, it rose to over 65% by early fall:
https://ncirs.org.au/covid-19/serosurveillance-sars-cov-2"
The third collection was completed in August-September 2022. The analysis found an overall nucleocapsid antibody (infection-related) seroprevalence of 65%, with little variation between states and territories, which reflects the ongoing community transmission nationally and across the winter period. The same age-related patterns were observed as from the first and second collections, with younger age groups having the highest seroprevalence, steadily decreasing with increasing age. Spike antibody seroprevalence remained high across all jurisdictions and age groups, reflecting high vaccination coverage in Australia and natural boosting from infection. "
To be clear the anti-nucleocapsid seroprevalence is NOT measuring how many people had antibodies from vaccination, since the 'vaccine' didn't include nucleocapsid antibodies. It's the number of people who were infected with the COVID virus itself (probably within 6months to 1year of getting COVID since these antibodies decrease over time). So even though the vaccine coverage in Australia in early 2022 was estimated to be over 90%, 65% of people still ended up getting infected after they loosened their border restrictions.
No. 2023927
>>2023732Your mental state can influence how you react to illnesses. Stressed/depressed people get sick more often and more severely, and stress can cause physical damage due to inflammation. Severe or prolonged stress can
trigger autoimmune responses too. Your brain is connected to your body, if you didn't notice. You're ignorant but at least don't let it show.
No. 2023929
>>2023926I agree with this and even though I think the COVID pandemic was massively overblown in seriousness, I was hoping at the beginning that it would lead to better worker/student protections and attitudes that would let sick people stay home. I always had these nasty flus multiple times per year that would last like 3+ weeks and I was convinced they wouldn't last as long if I could just stay home and recover for the first week or two, but being forced to go back to school/work made me just get sicker and sicker. So I was hoping the outcome of COVID would be awareness that sick people should get bed rest.
Instead what happened was an unimaginable perversion of public health norms and regarding sick leave we're back where we started, people don't take it seriously at all or provide any more protections so people can stay home than they did before. Even WFH doesn't work when someone is really, really sick, they shouldn't be working at all and should be sleeping.
No. 2023933
>>2023929>So I was hoping the outcome of COVID would be awareness that sick people should get bed rest.It worked for like one year and a half more or less? I don't get how we're back to square one so fast. I think it's pure denial from people who didn't suffer too much from the pandemic and who never had major health issues in general.
>Even WFH doesn't work when someone is really, really sick, they shouldn't be working at all and should be sleeping.I got surgery at some point and it's insane how I had to ask to work from home while recovering because the surgeon only gave me a not to stop working for one week and a half. I should have had the whole month off because it took me more than that to fully recover, even typing on a laptop was physically painful. Some doctors also don't give a shit, not just companies.
No. 2023940
>>2023933Yeah I had a blissful period in 2020-2021 where I was allowed to say 'I have COVID' when I didn't have COVID but had some other ear infection or flu where people just gave me a pass for not working that week lmao, it was short lived though.
I'm the same anon who had sepsis from a kidney infection and the doctor's note I got gave me THREE days off for sepsis, it was insane. I had to ask them to continue writing me notes (which they did thankfully) but it felt so pointless, like you don't realize I'll be sick for longer than 3 days when I have a blood infection you just told me is potentially deadly and is likely causing brain damage?
No. 2023977
>>2023974People are not only using personal anecdotes as evidence though, they're also supporting it with science studies, articles, etc.
If you yourself don't know many people and most with COVID were fine and most with the vaccine were also fine, that's not surprising, but people in this thread are acting like someone who saw a bunch of vaccine injuries in their personal circle is just crayzee or it should be considered normal to see a handful of your friends/family/acquaintances die from a vaccine. It should always be extremely rare and unusual for anyone you know to have serious side effects from a vaccine let alone die. It should not be so unusual to see a few people get quite sick from a respiratory virus, that's pretty normal for respiratory viruses, the question is are a lot more people getting a lot more sick from this one than other ones (science and anecdotal evidence seems to say no not really).
No. 2023990
>>2023986Sorry I keep samefagging but I also think you made a VERY important point, that 'personal anecdotes' actually are empirical evidence. People in the 'I just love science TM' community have made a big deal about how personal observations are supposedly 'not empirical' but they are, in the most blatant and true sense of the word 'empirical.' They are things you can personally observe with your own five senses, unlike a 'science study' you read or read the summary of on the news which you just have to take at face value but never empirically experienced. And I say this as a scientist.
To put it in terms that are easier to understand for most lolcow nonas, are you more likely to believe a 'science study' from 1990 in Sweden that claimed 'troons are much better off getting SRS and have no desire to encroach on female spaces' or are you more likely to believe your own eyes and ears when you see 10 troons you personally know in your own community wanting to kill themsleves after SRS and being coomers imposing their fetish on women in their environment? Yeah, it's like that. Half of science research is fraudulent and on extremely politically/commercially charged topics like COVID it's probably closer to 80-90%. What you can empirically observe (meaning with your own five senses) is and should be a lot easier to believe than some skewed conclusion based on 'numbers' based on a computer model you don't understand developed on the behest of the multi-billionaire owner of Pfizer. A single anecdote doesn't prove anything but multiple anecdotes, especially from multiple people, are data.
No. 2023995
>>2023989AYRT and that was my original point when I said getting adequate sleep, your emotional/mental state, your diet etc. can all impact how 'badly' you react to contracting any virus. People acted like I was some kind of insane anachan skinny yoga vegan saying that 'health conscious' people can't get sick, but that's not what I mean at all. I have a bad immune system but most of the time when I get really ill it's after some sort of external stressor whether that be a big fight with my parents, a period of no sleep, a really stressful period at work and none of that is some crazy woowoo speculative shit, we know that the body reacts to mental and emotional stress and physical stressors in other parts of the body with lowered immune response.
I actually highkey suspect the reason so many 'young and healthy' people got especially sick from COVID compared to comparable viruses is just because they were in an extremely emotionally, physically, mentally high-stress situation during lockdowns and this increased their susceptibility to extreme illness. I think there's multiple reasons why 'COVID truthers' were less likely to get severely ill but one of them was that most 'COVID truthers' actually didn't let COVID fearmongering scare them as much and were more likely to go outside/socialize/continue their normal lives. This can ultimately contribute to being less vulnerable to illness, paradoxically, than someone who is frenetically trying to avoid social contact at all costs and is paranoid and isolated.
No. 2024002
>>2023999Yeah I have a chronic illness that was
triggered by medical malpractice but I still noticed the symptoms get way better when I'm more relaxed and in a better mental/emotional state. I look back at my life as a 'high achiever' and unironically think I should have been less ambitious and achieved less because the trauma from pushing myself to do shit that was traumatic/hard to do probably made me less capable of being productive in the long term. It's always my friends from rich families who lived chilled out lives with the least weird health problems, people who didn't have to struggle too hard for anything. Even though I had horrible issues with my health I decided to chill out about viruses after COVID lockdowns started and I haven't had a really bad illness since then, even though I used to be constantly deathly ill before. Part of this is getting treatment for my chronic illness but I suspect part of it was just deciding I wouldn't lose sleep, time in the sun, or brain cells over stressors if I could help it.
No. 2024087
>>2023754Link them, then.
>there is no real reason to assume they would be.I literally told you what my reasons were.
No. 2024121
>>2024091pharmaceutical companies marketing novel gene therapies as vaccines to reduce hesitancy doesn't make them any closer to the traditional definition of vaccines retard
they have nothing to do with the original concept of vaccines regardless of your opinions on how nice and beneficial they are
No. 2024152
>>2024121https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1682852/000168285220000017/mrna-20200630.htm>Currently, mRNA is considered a gene therapy product by the FDA. Unlike certain gene therapies that irreversibly alter cell DNA and could act as a source of side effects, mRNA-based medicines are designed to not irreversibly change cell DNA; however, side effects observed in gene therapy could negatively impact the perception of mRNA medicines despite the differences in mechanism. In addition, because no product in which mRNA is the primary active ingredient has been approved, the regulatory pathway for approval is uncertain. The number and design of the clinical trials and preclinical studies required for the approval of these types of medicines have not been established, may be different from those required for gene therapy products, or may require safety testing like gene therapy products. Moreover, the length of time necessary to complete clinical trials and to submit an application for marketing approval for a final decision by a regulatory authority varies significantly from one pharmaceutical product to the next, and may be difficult to predict.https://archive.is/9s4JD (13 Feb 2012)
>Definition of VACCINE: a preparation of killed microorganisms, living attenuated organisms, or living fully virulent organisms that is administered to produce or artificially increase immunity to a particular diseasehttps://archive.is/2KpkL (18 Jan 2021)
>Definition of vaccine: a preparation of killed microorganisms, living attenuated organisms, or living fully virulent organisms that is administered to produce or artificially increase immunity to a particular diseasehttps://archive.is/ypcgk (26 Jan 2021)
>Definition of vaccine: a preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific infectious disease: >a: an antigenic preparation of a typically inactivated or attenuated (see ATTENUATED sense 2) pathogenic agent (such as a bacterium or virus) or one of its components or products (such as a protein or toxin) >b: a preparation of genetic material (such as a strand of synthesized messenger RNA) that is used by the cells of the body to produce an antigenic substance (such as a fragment of virus spike protein)Scummy establishment cronies change definitions of the term "vaccine" to serve their interests at the expense of others and covid tards go "what do you mean covid mrna vaccines are not vaccines??? it says so in the name, 'vaccine'!!" the absolute state of these retards lmaoo
No. 2024199
>>2024121>>2024152Not all of the vaccines work that way, though; just two of them, Pfizer and Moderna. The AstroZeneca vaccine works by introducing the spike protein (the substance the little knobs on the cell membrane of the virus) to the body's immune system. The difference with the other two vaccines is that they teach the body how to make the spike protein on its own as opposed to adding proteins taken from the virus. But they serve the same fundamental purpose: giving immune cells the ability to recognize the spike proteins so that they can identify and attack the virus more effectively. This does not involve modifying the DNA in any capacity whatsoever; it utilizes messenger RNA, which does not replicate and persist in the same way DNA does. That's why it's disputed among scientists whether it qualifies as a gene therapy. Some describe it that way, some don't. That's just the nature of scientific debate.
https://www.genomicseducation.hee.nhs.uk/blog/why-mrna-vaccines-arent-gene-therapies/How can you guys rail against the decisions of the FDA one minute and cite them the next?
No. 2024231
>>2024199How would you critique FDA decisions without citing them
I don't even understand the argument you're trying to make with that last sentence
Also, the point of that long post was to show the inconsistencies and changes in the positions of health authorities that covid cultists put so much faith in, rather than to discuss the nature of covid related products
No. 2024760
>>2024087AYRT and I just linked like 20 studies in this thread can any of you use google?
Sorry your reasons didn't seem like convincing reasons.
No. 2024767
>>2024199This is not true, AstraZeneca is also a gene therapy but it introduced DNA (not mRNA) through a plasmid vector instead of a lipid nanoparticle. It is not particularly more 'traditional' than Pfizer or Moderna and also was administered way less and has been pulled in most countries because it caused too much DVT.
>How can you guys rail against the decisions of the FDA one minute and cite them the next?The FDA post-2020 is completely different than the FDA pre-2020, the fact that the entire biomedical industry caved to lobby groups and started lying and changing the definitions of everything doesn't mean they were always that corrupt.
No. 2027774
File: 1717092149943.png (696.52 KB, 585x1024, 1691918394165177.png)
This screencap describes how i feel about c19 vaccination fanatics fairly well.
No. 2027781
File: 1717092411478.jpg (89.59 KB, 901x1024, 1707910732394015.jpg)
No. 2027870
>>2027863Came to what conclusion nonna? Sorry I don't know what part of my post you're responding to.
I don't get it because even people who 'questioned' the first 2 years of COVID shit I knew turned into vax shilling retards. Like the exact last people I would have expected to. And then on the other hand I knew people who never questioned lockdowns or masks until the vax shit happened and then suddenly snapped out of it and were like 'what the fuck?'
No. 2027884
>>2027874Yeah you're probably right. I'm definitely not autistic but sometimes I feel like I lack the theory of mind to comprehend how someone can act this deranged and unhinged toward people in their lives and then flip back and act like nothing happened or like they were the true
victims in the relationship when it becomes obvious they were wrong. I had people who would say 'okay let's talk in a year then' when I would say, e.g., 'Australia will be a closed off pseudofascist state and in the end they will all get COVID anyway' and then after it happened they never brought it up again but continued to act like we're pals and make small talk with me. They can't have completely forgotten right? If I made that bet with someone I would not just pretend it never happened I'd be deeply ashamed.
No. 2027952
>>2027933Yeah but I'm explicitly not talking about people who just 'got the vaccine and then questioned the boosters,' I'm the same anon above who said I don't really have any hard feelings toward people who genuinely wanted to get the vaccine because they thought it would work. I'm talking specifically about the people who became absolutely rabid and vitriolic toward anyone who was skeptical of any of the COVID measures, didn't want the vaccine, told us we would die or deserved to die, etc. and then started acting like absolutely nothing at all happened afterward.
I actually can understand why someone wouldn't want their kids to get childhood vaccines after this and I also don't think the 'New World Order' term is conspiratorial at this point because even mainstream politicians use that term constantly in public speeches now. But I'm not talking about someone who was just kind of unenthused/skeptical about their opinions. I'm talking about people who acted psychotic and wanted bad things to happen to the people around them, cut people out of their lives just for making a decision about their own body, claimed all unvaccinated people would die/spread COVID and kill people and just went right back to acting like nothing happened now that we know COVID vaccines didn't work and all the shit 'conspiracy theorists' predicted turned out to be true.
No. 2027962
>>2027891Well my uncle’s (and his son’s) behavior was the last straw for our already strained relationship. (My mom later said he was her boy mom’s favorite and physically
abusive towards mom and aunty since he was a kid)
He had back to back weddings for his sons and invited my mom and aunt to both weddings. Neither of them wanted to participate in a superspreader event during the pandemic so they politely declined. Both the uncle and his sons took this personal and kept bringing up during minor arguments. I put my cousin back in his place when he tried to insinuate that my mom worries too much about her health and I went NC after that.
They’re also dumb and religious so it was like a big relief not having to talk to them
No. 2028020
>>2027891ik I'll get judged for this - my inlaws went psychotic on me for not getting the vaccine, even made me and my husband homeless while I was pregnant over it (I had an apartment lined up and was supposed to volunteer abroad for the weeks between college and apartment move in - they convinced me to cancel because they swore they were going to let us stay there and then reneged at last minute after everything was canceled claiming it was because we didnt have the vaccine even though it wasnt an issue before) said a bunch of nasty stuff about me and my unborn baby, claimed I was killing grandma and everything else
basically I learned nothing pro vaxxers say is remotely true, while claiming they were deathly afraid of COVID, they had no issue partying it up every other month on foreign islands and even ditched grandma to move to mexico, refused to answer if grandma was actually vaccinated or not. It was simply just a cheap excuse for other malicious intents
No. 2028118
>>2028020Yeah nona the pro-vaxers and pro-lockdown/maskers I knew were the biggest hypocrites possible during the entire 3-ish years that we had COVID restrictions here. I'm part of the music community here and a guy who's pretty 'high up' in the music community locally and tours a lot spend most of 2020 seething and malding at anyone who played any kind of show (even outdoors in a park) or taught a student in person, and 'vowed' (his words) that he would not see a single student in person until either 1. 2022 or 2. 95% of people were vaccinated. What do you know the second restrictions were slightly released in late summer 2020 he was touring internationally, playing packed venues and teaching tons of students in person, only to resume his seething and malding when government lockdowns resumed before Christmas. That's just one example of many examples but these people were the biggest hypocrites.
Whenever I saw these people talking about 'saving grandma' I pointed out my grandma almost died and had triple organ failure because the hospital was 'only accepting COVID patients,' then they told me 'we all have to make sacrifices.' When I said I'm chronically ill and 'immunocompromised' (by their stupid definition of immunocompromised) and that my health was made worse by masks, inability to get medical care, go to the gym or go outside they would flip to saying 'chronically ill people shouldn't go outside if they can't handle masking and vaccination, and if you need the gym to be healthy you should move to the suburbs and buy a home gym.' They literally never gave a shit about immunocompromised people, chronically ill people, grandma dying or whatever, they just wanted to lord their superior morals and higher income (in some cases) over other people.
By the way I am really sorry about what happened during your pregnancy, that's horrifying.
No. 2028124
>>2028020I'm sorry you had to go through that. Your last paragraph reminded me of how so many Covid cultists I know had no problem partying with a lot of sweaty strangers in closed spaces and eating out at fancy restaurants, and doing whatever else they liked doing with tons of people in public, all the while with their masks off, "social distancing" totally forgotten, only to give other people shit when they were doing something they didn't enjoy doing.
It's like the allegedly deadly and virulent virus existed only when these people remembered to think about Covid.
No. 2028144
>>2028124NTAYRT but are you talking before or after vax mandates? Because this was really obvious to me with COVID cultists after they got vaccinated, but interestingly it was true of the same people even before.
Example: multiple people I know in like March/April 2020 raged out about how there were other people exercising in the park on their daily jogs/walks in the park to 'get some socially distanced fresh air.' They would post shaming photos of other people also walking or running in the same park they were walking/running in and post unhinged seething screeds about how those people should stay home because they don't want to encounter other people at their runs in the park. I started wondering if 50% of seemingly normal people in society are literal psychopaths.
No. 2028153
>>2028144Where I live, the compartmentalized attitude about Covid, where it was as though it existed only when people thought about it, continued from early 2020 to the start of the "special military operation" in Ukraine.
People started becoming increasingly hostile toward those who refused the injections, though the same people never stopped the compartmentalized attitude.
No. 2028227
>>2028148A lot of stuff came out about common childhood vaccinations during the course of people investigating COVID vaccinations. Even just in this thread you can see someone saying 'people thought the COVID vaccine was bad because they didn't understand how other vaccines worked before' and they're kind of right. I still think the COVID vaccine is another thing entirely in terms of the tech/delivery method it uses but as someone who used to study immunology and even had an immunology paper I'm ashamed to say that researching COVID vaccines was the first time I learned that no conventional vaccine was ever properly tested for 'sterilizing immunity' or 'stopping the spread' of diseases; we assumed that's what they did but it was never directly tested and later research showed that a lot of conventional vaccines actually lessen symptoms rather than providing 'sterilizing immunity.'
Another factor is that once people deep dive into the potential dangers of this vaccine they find out about multiple other 'traditional' vaccines that were supposed to be safe but weren't, or that were supposedly effective but weren't, and were eventually pulled and covered up. People also learned how many dangerous additives and adjuvants are in many conventional vaccines and that children are given like 5-10x as many vaccines now as they were 30-40 years ago, which sets a lot of people's alarm bells off for good reason. I still would not be against every single vaccine but if I had a child now I would certainly do a lot of research and have a long think about which 'conventional' childhood vaccines to give my children and when. Also the US gives kids 2-3x as many vaccines in the 'standard' vaccine schedule as EU countries, Canada, etc. which all have healthier children so that's worth thinking about too.
It's telling that you are even thinking about this as a 'political belief' when for the vast majority of people it's a health belief or a scientific belief about their personal safety and has nothing to do with politics. Historically pre-COVID it was actually US Democrats and Leftists in most other countries who were 'anti-vax' but somehow it's been spun into some right wing partisan thing suddenly when centrists and conservatives also got on board.
No. 2028248
>>2028227I heard offhand that virologists actually have some of the highest anti-vax rates for their children, at around 20% not giving their children the full course of vaccines. I'm not sure how true it is, but it wouldn't surprise me.
I remember the Mises Institute had a big write up on vaccines over history and said that new vaccines had always had diminishing returns of effectiveness. Around the 1980s was the inflection point where pretty much every new vaccine being developed wasn't passing safety tests and the risks weren't really worth the marginal benefit.
>Historically pre-COVID it was actually US Democrats and Leftists in most other countries who were 'anti-vax' but somehow it's been spun into some right wing partisan thing suddenly when centrists and conservatives also got on board.Yeah here it was weirdo hippie parents that would name their kids foreign names that didn't vaccinate their kids, or certain religious Pentecostal types. It never was a right wing thing until very recently.
No. 2028269
>>2028227I think what susses people out the most is the fact it's almost impossible to sue/ hold companies accountable in the case of a vaccine injury but besides that how heavily pushed it is and how extremely villianized you can get for even questioning vaccines, some peds won't even see your kids if you don't get them vaccinated yet it's perfectly fine to send them to school sick, not give them medicine, etc, it feels so performative because the same people who think unvaccinated kids are gonna kill us all won't even dare lift a finger for the fact it's so normal to send your kids to school sick and be around actual immunocomprised children. Most people foaming at the mouth about vaccines probably don't even know how they work
>inb4 anti vax!!nope, me and my children all their vaccines besides COVID
No. 2028297
>>2028283I've never met anyone militantly anti-vax (at least when it comes to childhood vaccines). From what I've seen it's not ignorance of how vaccines work, it's that they find them useless for illnesses that don't exist anymore/rather just build the immune system naturally
I remember when I was younger, even though vaccines were heavily pushed, if you had the virus once/in a certain period you wouldn't have to get the jab for that specific virus. Idk why it magically doesn't seem to apply now since having the disease and recovering is literally the exact same thing as getting the jab
No. 2028345
>>2028248Yeah that is my personal experience as a scientist in those circles too, with a bunch of MD friends - people will be a little hush hush about it not to get on the wrong side of funders or whoever but honestly most people with enough science/medical education will admit at least some reservations about the typical childhood vaccine schedule. Even from the perspective of 'supposedly this disease was eliminated like 60 years ago but we still have to vaccinate against it?' a lot of people would just rather not take the risk of injecting their child with the extra adjuvants. Adjuvants are supposed to
trigger an overzealous immune response btw, there's only so many times in a row you want to risk doing that to a tiny developing body before it could
trigger some kind of autoimmune condition and that's ignoring that many vaccines have actual heavy metals mercury aluminum and god knows what in them as ingredients. Supposedly at 'safe' doses but no one really does the research on how much they bio-accumulate when you give your kid like 15 of these shots in the span of 1-2 years when they still weigh at most 15lbs.
The reality is that no vaccine ever developed to this day has had 'safety testing' like other pharmaceutical products require. There has been no pre-approval large RCT on any vaccine that's gone to market in the history of humanity. Pfizer cominraty was the first one except the product went to market before it was approved and before trials were finished, and of course the study was shitty and largely fraudulent anyway, but it was actually the closest thing to a pre-approval RCT ever completed for a vaccine. Vaccines are considered 'biologics' rather than drugs so they don't need to clear the same safety benchmarks for approval as pills you get from your doctor, for example - and as we all know even with 'adequate' testing a lot of those drugs get recalled or have serious side effect profiles and limited benefits. Anyone who is interested can just look at the history of successful lawsuits against these pharma companies to see how spotty their track record is.
It's also interesting to me that a lot of the people who were most vitriolically obsessed with hating on 'antivaxxers' were also vitriolically obsessed with discrediting Ivermectin, one of the world's safest medicines which won a Nobel Prize in medicine and is on the WHO essential medicines list for humans. The FDA claimed it was 'horse medicine' and people shouldn't take it even though they approved it about 5 decades ago and billions of doses have been administered to people all over the world. At the time they were smearing this incredibly safe and almost entirely harmless drug there were already like 40-50 studies on it, most of them showing it had some beneficial effect for COVID. It never ceases to amaze me how leftists who were crying about Big Pharma Profits Evil like 4-8 years earlier just jumped on the Big Pharma Never Lies train as some kind of partisan virtue signal.
No. 2028401
>>2028362for most illnesses it is, even fauci himself had said this pertaining to the flu shot, that if you had the flu then it was pointless to get the flu shot that year
as for the COVID vaccine I have no fucking clue what happened and manufacturers would rather die than be honest about it, it seems like if you're unvaccinated and had COVID you aren't likely to get it again, where as the vaccinated are getting COVID every few months
No. 2028478
>>1819899i never got one vaccine i was just a shutin at the time lol
anyone else thought their lives would end if they didn't get vaccinated?
No. 2028484
>>2028428title is literally "the
cultural impact of the quatantine" not muh 5g schizo theories
No. 2028534
>>2028401Fauci wrote that in articles that he published in science journals but when he went on the news he claimed that 'everyone' needs to get vaccinated even if they'd had COVID weeks prior. But that's not even what I meant by it's 'not the exact same thing' lmao, most other vaccines give you most of or an entire virus or bacteria (either attenuated or not) whereas the COVID mRNA vax is not only a gene therapy (which changes its pharmacokinetics dramatically) but it's also just one tiny portion of the entire genetic code of the virus. That's one of the (probably not even the biggest) reason(s) why natural infection was different than vaccination, because natural infection would give you antibodies and B/T-cell memory related to other parts of the virus which mutated less. The vaccine only gave you the most rapidly mutating string of viral protein DNA and also incidentally the most harmful one.
The probably even bigger reason why it's not the same at all (there are many more but I'd put this as the other most major one) is that the COVID vaccine was essentially proven to rarely even reach the upper respiratory mucosa, i.e., the part of your body where you would first encounter the wild COVID virus. Of course it has basically no chance of preventing transmission or (mild) infection when the vaccine doesn't even induce antibodies in the part of your body that encounters the virus in nature. It's not like scientists didn't know about this; multiple labs were trying to develop nasal spray vaccines that would target the upper respiratory mucosa but they were boxed out and not allowed to go to market, for Reasons no one understood.
No. 2028906
>>2028886Hope this isn't too bloggy but I just wanted to say that even the worst boomers can be convinced of new ideas. My mom ticks a lot of the boomer boxes, though she's not anything extreme. She didn't exercise ever when I was growing up, but I was telling her about how regular exercise felt really good, I mean, specifically what I liked about it, and that I started to love doing HIIT and weights. I gave her some recs and said even just stretching would be great for her. She got interested and now she's maxing out exercise classes at her subdivision's gym. I never believed that she of all people would actually make a change.
The constant TV watching (and always Fox or some brainless talk show), well, couldn't change that. She is a pharmacy tech so she got all the vaccines, but she told me she thinks she's immune to covid and I agree. Everyone around her got it, but she never did.
No. 2029159
>>2028950I'm more concerned about how confidently wrong AI is and how that will be the norm for everything. Don't we already deal with companies and people who look at a screen and if Big Computer gives an answer, well gosh, that answer must be right! No one wants to check any further than an automated message. Dealing with one situation like that rn and it's infuriating.
I also asked AI for some pictures of people in a major city (actually, I just put the city name and it spit out portraits, ok w/e). It gave me 9 results, all of which were mangled women wearing hijabs. <10% in the city are Muslim, even lower if we talk about women only
No. 2031796
>>2028915People in this thread were responding with both sources from science journals, pharma themselves, the FDA etc. and personal experiences peppered in and your reaction is to ignore all of the scientific sources posted and write them off entirely just for also having personal experiences with the vaccine or knowing other people who had side effects?
I posted like 15+ studies/original sources in this thread and I also mentioned that I know a lot of people who had side effects and a few who died. I also am a scientist which is why I am aware of the sources, sorry you're mad about STEM gigastacies having a science education or whatever. Having personal experiences with something doesn't make you schizo, it's more schizo to just ignore all the actual verified sources and focus exclusively on people's personal experiences that line up with the verified scientific facts.
No. 2031802
>>2028923Yeah nonna I remember and some totally-non-schizos in this thread are continuing to repeat these claims in 2024.
>>2028940That's exactly what the establishment worked so hard to, uh, establish. It's been a multi-decade project to vilify anyone who doesn't automatically believe giant corporations and the media directly funded by them as 'crazy conspiracy nuts' and some anons in these threads seem to get especially and particularly mad when one of those people is also scientifically educated, because educated people are supposed to be a hivemind or else.
No. 2032325
>>2031796not arguing with you and ntayrt but your comment reminded me of the swirling black and white one side or the other discourse that was present.
Suppose people weren't using the excuse "the vaccines don't prevent covid" to justify their full-blown disregard of almost anything related to modern medicine. In that case, I think people wouldn't have reacted in the opposite direction, like those freaks "praising" heads of the CDC, or getting every single vaccine they possibly can without following guidelines for "boosters", or standing outside and clapping for hospital workers instead of setting the admins homes on fire to demand PPE and higher wages. The moment COVID-19 touched down and became apparent to world leaders, it was weaponized as a tool to divide us into neat groups and categories to exploit us. Convince us to buy a product, promote certain legislation, develop hateful ideas about people in other countries, etc. In the US, I'm not sure if you are in the US or remember this particular time, but presidential candidates (one in particular) both denied the efficacy of masks, vaccines, and at one point the actual existence of COVID, but then rallied his supporters to celebrate his "efforts" in sending PPE and vaccines to certain states. The states that vowed to support him politically.
All of this back and forth from people in this thread - it's so fucking weird. From the moment we experienced any kind of fear about illness, death, dying, economic hardship or total lifestyle loss, we were all taken advantage of, regardless of whether or not you truly believe taking parasitic medication will protect you from COVID, or if triple masking in a humid, stuffy environment will actually do anything beyond making you sick and hot.
God damn.
No. 2032459
>>2032203It's not just bad students that skip class, it's also what they're learning in med school and the way they learn it. There has been a ton of survey research showing that doctors don't read any medical research, and they often learned about important things in classes for less than an hour even if what they learned in classes was correct (which it often isn't). They're not like scientists who are encouraged to deep dive into medical lit and learn about biostatistics and research methods and keep up with new promising medical research work, they literally just learn some facts and consult a diagnostics app to learn what drug to give you most of the time, and even then they still mess up.
I was a
victim of malpractice years before COVID that was really obvious and easy for the doctor not to do, she was just dumb. Then a couple years later I had an antibiotic resistant infection that was incredibly easy to test for but every doctor I saw outside of the ER doc refused to test for it because 'it's gone, you already took antibiotics' and I had to like beg and refuse to leave the clinic just to have someone look in my throat for 2 seconds to confirm the infection was still there. I could have easily died from this if I didn't know how to advocate for myself. Going into COVID I already thought it was insane that people just 'took doctors at their word' all the time, they don't care about you nearly as much as you care about yourself and they don't have the time to actually research anything, with very few exceptions.
No. 2032472
>>2032325Who is the people with full-blown disregard of anything related to modern medicine? Are they in the thread with us right now? If so can you point them out?
You have your causality wrong anyway, the standing outside and clapping and lining up for vaccines happened way before most of the backlash to these things happened. There wasn't a significant anti-COVID-vax movement at first when the vaccines were initially rolled out, it happened afterward. There wasn't a significant 'don't clap for nurses' movement at the time that people were standing outside and clapping in March 2020, people eventually got sick of it once they realized it was farcical. I agree with you that COVID was weaponized by the people in power to exploit people, but it's just silly to imply that it was 'started by' skeptics, even those who were 'overly' skeptical or paranoid. The whole thing was started by the insane government policies and overreaction to COVID in the first place, not by the people who eventually got sick of it. I'm not in the US but I do know what Trump did, and what then Biden did, both of whom acted retarded about COVID but still less so than many other world leaders. The leader of my country acted way more retarded and hypocritical than even Biden or Trump.
The thing is though that my personal suffering throughout this wasn't just because of a couple shadowy figures in government somewhere, it was equally because of how people all acted. If people didn't fall for it and go along with what TPTB wanted we would never have had an issue in the first place. I'm not surprised or hurt that Trump BoJo or Bill Gates or Fauci or whoever else is an evil psychopath, but I am surprised and personally hurt and harmed when the people close to me in my life are. When people who supposedly love me call for my death. When the vast majority of previously sane-seeming people act insane and subjugate others. Why is it surprising that people talk about this when they got a massive wake-up call about the people who surround them? None of this ever would have happened if a majority of normal people just acted reasonable from the start instead of all bootlicking politicians and pharma execs.
No. 2032708
File: 1717373684045.png (146.4 KB, 1146x576, bmjresearch.png)
>>2032695Here I conveniently pulled up a few sources since you don't believe me, this one's actually easy to google and not remotely tinfoil-y:
The rapid responses page for an article I don't feel like accessing the full-text of, the responses are more telling than the article itself:
https://www.bmj.com/content/329/7479/1411.2/rapid-responsesimgrel source:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC161633/https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/revolutionandrevelation/72029here's a doctor explaining that research has a credibility problem (which it does) and using that as his excuse for not reading research, even though nothing suggests he himself has less of a credibility problem:
https://bcmj.org/premise/why-i-dont-read-medical-literature No. 2032847
>>2032830Yeah because most doctors really don't know much about any condition, they just know enough to prescribe some drugs surgeries or interventions or punt you to the 'correct' specialist if you're lucky (if not, they'll punt you to like 6-7 random different types of specialist because they haven't even figured out what type of issue you have). If all else fails they'll punt you to a therapist or Psychiatrist to help you 'deal with your feelings around being sick' instead of treating or diagnosing the illness. Specialists might have read up a bit more on a few specific conditions and be more knowledgeable but again only in certain specific situations and if you luck out with a good one. The whole medical system is mostly run financially on a billing by patient system where doctors want your appointments to be as short as possible and get you out the door so they will get annoyed if you even try to tell them about all your symptoms at once or the history of how your symptoms started. If you get really lucky you get a doctor who reads some medical literature sometimes but most likely is not actually good at parsing medical lit and statistics so they still won't have a good grasp on what they've read and whether it's true or not (see the 4th article posted above):
>>2032708I don't even entirely blame doctors for this; medical school teaches them insufficient deep knowledge of body systems and diseases and afterwards their schedules are usually too hectic to keep up with research especially now with the huge amounts of stupid, subpar and flat-out fraudulent research that's being published. Even though I don't blame doctors I think it's incredibly naive to think they know much more about most diseases or current up-to-date medical findings than the average person who just googled their symptoms for a few hours. Most of them literally use special apps created by people without medical or graduate degrees that just tell them what drugs to give for what conditions/symptoms and how to dose them, my doctor admits to using this app and I have a couple friends who work in those app provider companies that service the public health system here.
No. 2032935
>>2032858Samefag but to link this back to COVID shit I remember at the time COVID was first happening I was encouraging people to do their own research, like not saying they could figure out everything on their own but just encouraging people not to see themselves as stupid and actually try to show some personal curiosity and read some primary sources especially since I think it's increasingly necessary to even just get adequate medical care, and people were so weirdly mad at this suggestion that they know their own bodies and circumstances best and would benefit from looking some things up for themselves and seeing if they track with reality. It was crazy to me that people who clearly viewed themselves as intelligent found the idea of just reading some research themselves so horrifying and offensive. I remember arguing with someone who said we should 'trust experts' and sending them an article by an acclaimed expert and them saying 'not that expert!' Then when I asked them how do you know which experts to listen to without using your own personal judgment? They flipped out at me and started swearing and had no answer. Then a year or two into the 'pandemic' there started to be all these journalistic pieces about how 'it's dangerous to do your own research' and whatever essentially encouraging people to be deliberately scientifically illiterate. Meanwhile most 'research' and 'expert opinions' were filtered through journalism done by people with no medical or scientific experience at all, just regular run of the mill journalists who for some reason are allowed while everyone else is not.
I honestly think among other things this whole 'disinfo' freakout by TPTB was in part a psyop to discourage people from developing scientific or mathematical literacy for themselves and discourage them from seeking health knowledge about their own conditions themselves, in part to cover up the increasingly low quality of medical care, nutritional advice etc. that people would actually be able to clock if they started taking more prerogative to look things up themselves. They would rather people remain sick than improve their health through common sense things they can do on their own like supplements, targeted exercise and diet (not saying those things cure everything but they help with a lot).
No. 2033788
File: 1717428261354.jpg (457.13 KB, 718x1241, faucitestimony.jpg)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13481839/dr-anthony-fauci-social-distancing-masks-prevent-covid.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubuttonBombshell testimony from Dr. Anthony Fauci reveals he made up the six foot social distancing rule and other measures to 'protect' Americans from covid.
Republicans put out the full transcript of their sit down interview with Fauci from January just days before his highly-anticipated public testimony on Monday.
They plan to grill him about covid restrictions he put in place, that he admitted didn't do much to 'slow the spread' of the virus.
Kids' learning loss and social setbacks have been well documented, with one National Institute of Health (NIH) study calling the impact of mask use on students' literacy and learning 'very negative.'
And the impacts from social distancing caused 'depression, generalized anxiety, acute stress, and intrusive thoughts,' another NIH study found.
Speaking to counsel on behalf of the House Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Pandemic earlier this year, Fauci told Republicans that the six foot social distancing rule 'sort of just appeared' and that he did not recall how it came about.
'You know, I don't recall. It sort of just appeared,' he said according to committee transcripts when pressed on how the rule came about.
He added he 'was not aware of studies' that supported the social distancing, conceding that such studies 'would be very difficult' to do.
In addition to not recalling any evidence supporting social distancing, Fauci also told the committee's counsel that he didn't remember reading anything to support that masking kids would prevent COVID.
No. 2033872
>>2032472I suppose I could have worded it differently - I think that we are beyond the point of "who started it", and I didn't mean to imply that the skeptics started anything. And yes, I agree, it is something we should direct towards the government.
Although I have to say, to the public, those who are anti-vax were calling for the pro-vax's deaths, and vice versa, insofar that there are those who think the vaccines will injure or kill them, and those who think if you DON'T get vaccinated you will be injured or killed. So, you take those major schools of people and pit them against each other, and there you have it, the politicians and heads of major corporations and pharma companies and PPE companies and everything else, hospital admins, leaders of the CDC and WHO, can focus on something else, while we scream and yell at each other because we think the other is stupid.
When I had to have a conversation with a woman who had left an
abusive relationship and she indicated to me that her ex was a "conspiracy theorist" I had to explain what exactly was meant when people were saying "there are fetuses in the mrna vaccines". I had to be very careful and try and unglue the weird assumptions and implications that are layered in these overwhelming us or them type ideologies. And maybe she didn't ultimately get vaccinated, or wear a mask or whatever, but she was open to hearing something more complicated than "get your fauci ouchi" or "the gubmint is killing us with PCR tests". I had to work an information line for people to get free info/direction on covid and financial resources. I had to talk to all kinds of people from "both sides" and it's clear that we all just got shafted, once again, by "the powers that be".
No. 2034197
>>2033872I have to disagree with your framing though even though I understand where you're coming from. People who were anti-covid-'vax' weren't calling for anyone's deaths, they were just minding their own business trying not to get injected with an experimental substance. The whole framing of 'people are literally killing me by possibly having an illness in public' was invented just to vilify COVID skeptics and vax skeptics and has nothing to do with any attitudes anyone had before, it was never a crime to be sick or even potentially, possibly future sick in the past. It is a human rights abuse in the most obvious way to demand that people be held 'accountable' for your health just for existing. It's like Nazi-era vilifying of Jews for 'having typhus and spreading typhus,' calling them plague rats/vermin etc. The same thing happened with COVID and anyone reasonable should be able to tell that this is genocidal language. Not to mention that unvaxed people were ultimately less likely to get sick and spread COVID. But even if this wasn't the case it's still not 'calling for other people's death' to just live your life as an organism that sometimes is susceptible to viruses. It was anti-anti-vaxers who were literally calling for the deaths of the unvaxed, in many cases, not the other way around. This sounds like bothesidesism about the holocaust or gulags.
The truth is that one group was screaming and yelling to be left alone (and possibly also trying to warn/inform others that they might suffer consequences for something, which is just basic free speech) and the other side was screaming and yelling (along with the government, big corps, media) to oppress and suppress other people who have just as much a right to bodily autonomy.
The issue with your
abusive relationship example is clearly that her scrote was
abusive so she didn't want to listen to him (good) and not the quality of his opinions. I was calmly and patiently explaining to people for 3 years, linking them to scientific sources, etc. and what I got in response was them telling me they hope I die, wanting me to be put in camps, my government actively oppressing me and saying I shouldn't be allowed to travel or even leave the country, not allowed to see my family, etc. Bothsidesing this just doesn't make logical sense because it was an oppressed minority versus an oppressive majority that was going right along with the oppressive government, oppressive health organizations, and oppressive corporations. The government, corporations, NGOs all have culpability, but so did their enablers.
No. 2034278
>>2034256lots of the so-called antivaxxers were just health-concerned people who had previous experiences with health problems and were not willing to entirely trust doctors just because they were doctors
really dishonest to make it sounds like the "qanon" stuff was prevalent among those skeptical about the experimental covid treatments
No. 2034282
>>2034278Yeah I had a lot of people coming to me at the start of the vax rollout because they knew I'm scientist and I was publicly lockdown and mask skeptical before, I'm talking people who disagreed with me overall on masks and lockdowns. They would privately message me asking 'so what do you think about this vaccine thing it seems
sus to me.' They were just normies who were concerned about taking a very new/experimental type of drug, most of them knew they were young and not susceptible to any serious effects of COVID. I'd say actually the vast majority of my closer friend group didn't get vaccinated until the government started the really extreme coercion strategies (no international or within-country travel except by car, no buying alcohol, no shopping at big box stores, no going to the university library, no bars, etc) and even then a lot of people held out and didn't get vaccinated or just got fake vax cards because they were suspicious. That general group of friends are mostly university educated people with at least a master's degree and lean generally left politically, it wasn't some crazies. No one should be blamed for not trusting doctors if they ever experienced any serious or chronic health issues before, doctors are useless and anyway doctors weren't the ones testing or knowledgeable about the vaccine, it was a pharma company and their shills who were pushing it.
No. 2034388
>>2034282From my experience, any form of treatment that is extremely forced and marketed ends up never being good news. Every single medication and shot and everything else that suddenly has commercials, ads, is pushed by everyone and their moms overnight ALWAYS ends up with crappy effects. We see the same with ozempic now. First it was SSRIs, accutane, speed in the 50s-70s, opioids, to the point where people are expected to endure the most painful surgeries and procedures of their life without proper pain care after,etc. you had people that were getting some of the worst imaginable things threatened over not getting the vaccine, certainly if unvaccinated people were that scary and harmful why are you trying to beat them up?
And it was all over the vaccine too. Try telling a vaccine nazi that you walked around Walmart and the mall with COVID and they certainly don't give a fuck
No. 2034423
>>2034388I actually think Ozempic is a great drug with some of the most robust clinical trial and long-term epidemiological data of any recent drug, and the reason it is being vilified is another reason entirely (better to keep that to the tinfoil thread since it's not really COVID related), although I agree the marketing to too many people is typical pharma shenanigans. It's actually got an incredibly good benefit to risk profile so far and it's been on the market close to 20 years now in some form or another with no real severe safety signals. I think Ozempic is a special case though. I also think opioids are unreasonably vilified, this was another case of pharma overshoot and overprescription for a drug that had a hundreds of years long history, is relatively safe when dosed properly, and is absolutely necessary for a lot of people's quality of life.
When it comes to shit like SSRIs, amphetamines for 'mental disorders,' hormonal birth control and to some smaller degree accutane (which always had a bunch of safety warnings around it), I agree completely that seeing a massive push for these new and often useless/unnecessary substances was always bad news. Same with thalidomide, several past vaccines (flu included, swine flu included), and even a whole bunch of non-drug medical procedures shilled to people.
Even though I would argue that opioids and Ozempic are more useful than people want to admit and have been overly vilified/politicized, I think most centrists/leftists with any political knowledge would agree that generally you want to think twice when pharma is shilling something really hard, and yet this was the one exception. It was safety tested less and efficacy tested less and shilled harder and to more people than basically any substance in all of human history yet people were chomping at the bit to imprison and destroy the lives of people hesitant to take it, meanwhile some of the world's safest drugs like hydroxycholoroquine and ivermectin were vilified to the point of them acting like they would kill you when they're at worst almost entirely harmless and at best way more effective against COVID symptoms than the vaccines.
No. 2034429
>>2034419>I low-key regret even getting the 1st and 2nd doses at all, I just felt pressured by everyone around me and the stupid travel restrictions.I luckily didn't deal with any long-term issues from being vaccinated, but I only got it out of pressure too. And fear. I tested positive for Covid several months before and even though I had zero symptoms and suspected it was a false positive (it was literally from drive-thru testing I did with my family, and it wasn't even as thorough as the test I was negative on). I felt like it was "my duty" to protect my family and coworkers. But ironically, everyone in my life who was crazy about getting vaxxed and double boosted were hit by Covid worse and were shitting their guts out for weeks straight. Meanwhile, when I tested positive for Covid a second time (no symptoms once again), it just felt like a cold without getting boosted. My mom didn't get vaccinated at all due to health issues and caught the Covid from me, and despite being pretty old she turned out fine. I feel like a schizo for thinking that boosters are making people more suspectable to long Covid and more severe symptoms but that's really what it feels like.
>>2034423>I think most centrists/leftists with any political knowledge would agree that generally you want to think twice when pharma is shilling something really hard, and yet this was the one exception.I was skeptical of the vaccines and lockdown for this reason, I've had awful experiences in psychiatry when it came to antidepressants, antipsychotics, ADHD, etc at a young age. It just made me wonder if this was a repeat of all that. But when I talked about my skeptism about the chemical imbalance model and whatnot, I was compared to a conspiracy theories or those Christians who don't let their kids get a flu shot for religious reasons. I wouldn't be surprised if the crazier anti-all-vaccinations types were skeptical moderates like me and pushed over the edge.
No. 2034440
>>2034429I don't think you're crazy for noticing the super-boosted people were getting sick more often, even the super-boosted people I know were all saying that. I followed people on social media who got like 2-3 boosters who were posting 'memes' about how 'lol fellow quintuple vaxed people have you noticed we all got COVID three times this winter and it's only us?' I got COVID only once in March 2020 and never got it again, my relative who worked in a COVID ward in a hospital for the whole 3 years got COVID once in like May 2020 (it was like a moderately bad flu for her) and then never got it again despite not being vaxed and working with COVID patients every day. She also refused to mask lmao and they didn't fire her because they were so shortstaffed and all the vaxed nurses were sick all the time so she was picking up their shifts.
Regarding the psychiatry thing it's truly just a racket, we know after decades of research that SSRIs straight up don't work and have no good evidence for them yet they're prescribed to tens of millions of people, often in childhood when they have the chance to permanently modulate children's brain function. Antipsychotics are not much better and ADHD drugs are just speed, they 'work' for everyone whether you have ADHD or not. Obviously you're more focused when you're taking amphetamines but that isn't a good long term strategy for the vast majority of people.
Regarding your last point I was always rabidly pro-every-vax before but due to this I did a lot more research and deep dives into older vaccines and I think there are problems with many older/historical vaccines as well. I wouldn't say I'm fully anti-all-vaxes I'm kind of agnostic now, but I am definitely against quite a few of the ones we're supposed to consider 'safe' and I also think the childhood vax schedule in America is insane (so do most other countries because they don't recommend nearly as many childhood vaccines nearly as close together). Even if you don't care about the aluminum, mercury, or anything else in these vaccines it's indisputable that adjuvants exist purely to unnaturally increase immune response and giving a kid a heightened immune response over and over again for the first few years of life at the very least is likely to predispose them to allergies, asthma, etc. which is exactly what we see happening with younger generations of children that are given more vaccines in early childhood.
No. 2034462
>>2034440>Regarding the psychiatry thing it's truly just a racket, we know after decades of research that SSRIs straight up don't work and have no good evidence for them yet they're prescribed to tens of millions of people, often in childhood when they have the chance to permanently modulate children's brain function. Antipsychotics are not much better and ADHD drugs are just speed, they 'work' for everyone whether you have ADHD or not. Obviously you're more focused when you're taking amphetamines but that isn't a good long term strategy for the vast majority of people. ntayrt but I have schizo levels of skepticism about psychiatry after being a true believer of psychology and psychiatry my entire young adult life. It feels like the field goes through diagnostic trends every few years: depression in the 2010s, BPD and bipolar after that, CPTSD, autism/ADHD of more recent years. It all depends on what is in vogue. I was diagnosed with bipolar as a young 20-something and took the drugs for years. Then I decided to stop taking them because I felt it didn't fit me and I started seeing a psychologist for therapy who said I definitely did not have bipolar disorder. Kek its just so cringe that a psychiatrist can meet a young and troubled woman in college and in ten minutes go "bipolar 2, take these anticonvulsants that will make your hair fall out. bye"
Then the absolute retarded culture amongst young people for seeking these diagnoses and crafting identities with symptoms associated with very serious mental disorders. It all drives me crazy.
No. 2034962
>>2034655I'd be happy to discuss this with you in the tinfoil thread nona since apparently it's a derail here, but this is a good point.
>>2034934Anon at this point people saying they got their 'second' vaccine is so mild to me, so many people I knew were posting about getting their 5th or 6th and still didn't realize that something is wrong if they have to keep getting them for years and keep getting COVID anyway. I follow someone on social media who is still insisting, in summer 2024, that the reason anyone is getting any flu-like illness now is because people just won't double/triple mask and get their booster. I think some people are permanently brain damaged, and I don't mean this as a joke, I mean like actually legitimately mindfucked, by the propaganda so bad they will never recover.
No. 2035451
>>2034197I suppose I can also say that I can see where you're coming from, but I think we straight up had two starkly different experiences that changed our perspectives. I had a vaccine-hesitant mom and dad (they wouldn't give me the HPV vaccine for this reason) and it took my mother getting deathly ill and my father losing circulation in his toes and fingers for them to finally decide that maybe the vaccine's side effects would outweigh how intense COVID feels. And these are two generally healthy people with no major health issues to date.
I have other family members who were straight up in the camp of drinking the kool aid, referring to vaccines as marxist (?) and generally sounding like something broke their brain.
I also had to give "non biased" (public health information on a PDF published by the state) to people about the pandemic. But by non biased, I mean that I couldn't try and change people's minds about COVID, I just had to give them the info they were looking for. So I had to speak to people that were saying that the state governor was solely responsible for the financial suffering we all faced, or accuse me of having "dr fauci" in the same room as me.
That's not to say I didn't have a lot of panicked elderly people calling me around 2020 March, asking me who the person was who was first recorded as having COVID in the state so they could presumably, IDK, kill them, or elderly people stuck to the news crying when they got groceries because they were afraid the germs on the groceries would get them sick. It inspired a mania where the panicked people with no sense activated the angry skeptics and vice versa. And I had to talk to all of them and shake my head at how insane it all was.
Both sidesing it DOES make sense, because it seems like everyone developed a highly reactionary opinion to protect themselves and justify their behavior. Don't forget there was a large group of people who argued against whatever mandate on social distancing or masking or vaccines by saying that the weak SHOULD die out if they get COVID and their immune system can't fight it. Maybe for some people, that's life, but that continues to not sit right with me.
You see oppressive government corruption and overreach, I see oppressive government corruption and propagandization of a legitimate illness that could kill people, blown out of or under proportion to fit the narrative they're trying to sell us. I feel like we can agree that COVID is a virus, a virus can make people really sick and kill them, and we ought to develop some sort of medical intervention to mitigate disability and/or death due to medical complications of any illness. How that's implemented and how that's discussed globally is an entirely separate issue.
You may not agree that anti-vax skeptics are calling for people's death outright but if you have a contagious illness and you do nothing to mitigate spreading it, and you choose to be around people that may have a weaker immune system than you, you're at the very least a fucking asshole. So, some people just take that extra step and assume you want them dead, because they believe that you're wrong, and they're right. And you believe you're right, so those people come off as hysterical control freaks obsessed with bunk medicine who want you to be forcibly vaccinated. Doesn't seem like there's a middle ground. Have you ever seen the Herman Cain Awards?
No. 2035867
>>2035166I guess they don't nonna. I think a lot of people seem to never have internalized the idea that there are actually other viruses around us at all times and that people routinely get sick from them and this is the way it has always been and will always be. I also don't think they realize catching illnesses is necessary to maintain the immune system.
>>2035451Your experience of your parents getting sick from COVID doesn't make the vaccine work any better though, now they were sick from COVID as well as increasing their risk of future COVID infections and health complications. Why would the experience of your parents being (correctly) hesitant to take a gene therapy but then also being susceptible to an illness have any bearing on the conversation above?
>I also had to give "non biased" (public health information on a PDF published by the state) to people about the pandemic. But by non biased, I mean that I couldn't try and change people's minds about COVID, I just had to give them the info they were looking for. Oh so you had a job for the propaganda department of your state, I get it. I'm genuinely curious why you say you 'had' to speak to people that were saying the state governor was responsible for the financial suffering you all faced, as if this was a hard sentiment to listen to when you posted in other responses above that you think the government was solely responsible for the COVID crisis. So why would it be upsetting for other people to say so at your work?
It seems like your issue is that you had a job as a propagandist and that the blowback you got from the general public for working as a propagandist was frustrating for you, which I understand because I wouldn't want to do that job either. But that doesn't really serve as a rebuttal for anything I said in the post above - it's still objectively true that the 'anti-vaxers' didn't do anything to harm anybody and were just minding their own business, while the 'anti-antivaxers' directly called for the oppression and subjugation of people who wouldn't get the vaccine.
>Don't forget there was a large group of people who argued against whatever mandate on social distancing or masking or vaccines by saying that the weak SHOULD die out if they get COVID and their immune system can't fight it. I mean, what's ultimately wrong with this? None of those measures worked or did anything, and weak old people who can't be helped do naturally die whether we like it or not. Maybe the sentiment of 'they SHOULD die' is mean (I never saw anyone say this personally) but it's not like thinking people shouldn't die will change the fact that they do and it's part of nature.
>I feel like we can agree that COVID is a virus, a virus can make people really sick and kill them, and we ought to develop some sort of medical intervention to mitigate disability and/or death due to medical complications of any illness. Yeah, some people successfully did this early on - azithromycin, ivermectin, Hydroxychloroquine, high dose vit D/C were all successfully trialed and all mitigated disability/death due to medical complications of COVID, but the government actively suppressed these treatments and in some places it was even illegal to sell, buy, or prescribe them. Like I said this was all the same group who was 'pro vaccine.' They were the aggressors in the situation, going along with arbitrary laws and rules that just led to many more deaths. Just because someone from on high tells you to do something doesn't mean you're not culpable for doing it.
>You may not agree that anti-vax skeptics are calling for people's death outright but if you have a contagious illness and you do nothing to mitigate spreading it, and you choose to be around people that may have a weaker immune system than you, you're at the very least a fucking asshole. No. You're not an asshole for living your life when you might have a cold. If other people are afraid of going out in public because other people might have colds, they should avoid going out in public themselves. It is their responsibility to do so. Vax skeptics weren't telling anyone to go out while actively contagiously sick anyway, everyone knows that sick people need to rest in bed. Unfortunately most jobs, schools, etc. don't actually allow you to freely take time off when you're sick, and people need to eat, travel, etc. so sometimes sick people go outside. This was just as true of 'pro vaxers' as it was of 'anti vaxers' in my experience and had nothing to do with the vaccine or the oppression and subjugation of people who didn't take the vaccine. This is quite simply an issue of one group doing everything in their power to oppress and subjugate another group that is doing absolutely nothing wrong or illegal.
>Have you ever seen the Herman Cain Awards?Oh you're one of those people, lmao. Most embarrassing thing on the entire internet. Imagine thinking that people who were dying of COVID were dying because they didn't take a vaccine that makes you… more likely to contract and die of COVID (as well as other diseases).
No. 2035925
File: 1717536734895.png (328.66 KB, 1988x1244, telegraphcovid.png)
A paper was recently published suggesting that COVID vaccines increased death in 43 countries (imgrel) (1/2)
No. 2035934
File: 1717537496125.jpg (517.4 KB, 1218x2112, japantweet.jpg)
Also related to some of the posts further up in the thread, Japanese people apparently don't all love what went down in Japan either:
No. 2035967
File: 1717538714089.jpeg (825.5 KB, 1125x2074, IMG_5510.jpeg)
>>2035934That's not a real news company, why would you not check that before posting
No. 2035980
File: 1717539673286.png (1.26 MB, 1125x1529, stupid .png)
>>2035969>an event that actually happenedA website writing a fictional article and some conspiracytard on twitter posting it as real news…yeah, that happened.
No. 2035981
File: 1717539718570.png (223.54 KB, 1082x548, japanminister.png)
>>2035973Since you think Wikipedia editors are 'real news' and whatever they declare to be 'fake news' automatically becomes 'fake news' (lol shouldn't you know better after the COVID debacle?) then here, have a screenshot from Wikipedia. He is indeed the former internal affairs minister.
Here's video of the speech for you weeb-chan:
https://www.bitchute.com/video/1ygaKqnHX5an/ No. 2036003
The worst part was seeing people go apeshit at each other on the internet with more intensity than ever before because a lot of people were out of work, and if they did have a job, staying home most of the time after work. It created a super mutant breed of internet retard on both extremes of the political spectrum. These retards existed, but the extreme rhetoric in the media from every side in 2020 gave them superpowers.
Acceptable to hurl death threats, way more self-victimizing, more bullying in general. Everyoone went way too far. I deleted all social media in late 2020 and didn't even reinstate it until early 2024. Couldn't stand my friends and family screaming at each other from behind a screen that they want people they don't even know to die horrible deaths.
Additionally, I had two good friends who both fell victim to the 1-2 combo of social isolation and the self-diagnosis trend. They are both now ADHD, autistic, nonbinary, EDS, special anxiety warriors, and claim to be immunocompromised. They were definitely not that way before they spent a year at home 2020. It created a whole new way for people to get attention, and many are still clinging to it.
No. 2036005
>>2035999So you went from 'this event didn't happen and is fake news' to 'the large protest did happen but you can only find a video from some substack account' (no, I found it on bitchute using google and I don't know who the uploader is) as if where you 'can find' the video makes the event any less real. Here's another longer video with all the speakers which I also found with under a minute of googling:
https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/so43858785Inb4 'but a few thousand protesters don't count as people' would you say that about the tiny minority of people who died of COVID as well? Sorry reposting because of reddit spacing.
No. 2036010
>>2036003And they can't even sage.
>>2036005>So you went from 'this event didn't happen and is fake news'My first post was criticizing you for posting an article from a fake news site and asking for an actual source of the event. I don't understand why you want to keep arguing about it, it's pretty spergy of you to be unable to move on now that it's been shared. As you and others have posted previously in the thread there's nothing wrong with fact-checking to make sure information is correct.
No. 2036011
>>2036003I was less concerned with what people were doing on the internet and a lot more concerned with how aggressive people were acting in real life, although the way they acted on the internet was upsetting too. I was never much on social media before or after COVID though and I only used social media during COVID to try to disseminate info and get a read on other people, I still broke the law and hung out with my friends irl as much as possible to avoid spending my whole life on social media which I think was really helpful and made me go (less) crazy than I otherwise would have. I noticed a lot of people aren't the same anymore, like even hyper-social-butterfly types I knew before are cagey and flaky and don't go out much anymore, people are all weirdly anxious and depressed, people are very listless about their career and life prospects. I even miss things I used to find annoying like my straight female friends always gossiping about their dating experiences, now it feels like no one even dates much and when they do they aren't excited about it.
>Acceptable to hurl death threats, way more self-victimizing, more bullying in general. Everyoone went way too far.Agree with this anon it's like the safety brakes were pulled off of everyone mentally or something and they all went full mask off talking about how they wished for people to die (we still have people in this thread apparently shilling HermanCainAward lol) and acting like other people just living their lives were their mortal enemies. Lots of people sabotaged their friends' careers over COVID opinions too which is just insanely petty.
Your friends who self-DX'd reminds me of a couple of my friends, one of them became a full blown agoraphobe and quit all work and schooling for almost 4 years, another one developed hypochondria and social anxiety (btw have you noticed how many more hypochondriacs there are now?) Also a lot of long-term munchies who were previously ignored glommed onto the 'long COVID' diagnosis as a way to get more attention from the government and media and it worked.
No. 2036015
>>2036010And I told you I did not post 'an article' I posted a tweet explaining what the event was, who the speaker was and why he was there, that included a screenshot of a headline which was true (even if it's from a 'fake news' website, I don't obsessively look up whether a website someone screenshots is considered fake or real news) since I had watched the video of his speech and thought this was an easily-digestible way to present the information instead of a 5 minute long translated video in Japanese with no context about what the event was or who the speaker is. Big mistake apparently! You embarrassed yourself by claiming it was 'fake news' and you can move on just as easily as I can if you want to stop repeating the already-disproven 'fake news' allegations.
Why not stay on topic and actually comment something relevant to the topic or thread, like sharing your opinion on the anti-WHO protest itself or sharing your opinion on what the Minister said rather than trying to start an infight about what images I'm allowed to post here? The information was fact-checked and correct and now you're embarrassed, it's okay to be wrong and move on.
No. 2036018
>>2036011tbh I lived in a VERY divided town politically, but everyone in public remained pretty good at ignoring each other.
I remember emerging to go to one of the first concerts they threw in my town after quarantine, and meeting a friend there who, I shit you not, now had short rainbow hair and described herself as a "pansexual demiromantic sex worker." Like girl I just saw you 8 months ago and we were laughing at people like that … It's the "other virus" of 2020. Still raging harder than covid ever could.
No. 2036025
>>2036018Oh you're lucky then, me and several people I know got physically assaulted in public for e.g. not having masks on and I knew several people who deliberately sabotaged other people's jobs/career opportunities because they disagreed with them about COVID policies, people would scream and rage at other people for being in the same park as them sitting around or jogging, and I knew a bunch of people whose families disowned them for not getting vaccinated and refused to let them come to family events, which I always found even more concerning than shit people were saying on social media, but I guess both are facets of the same issue because the things people were saying on social media were their 'real thoughts' that were also bleeding into real life and the vitriol people had towards others normalized violence and anger in real life situations. Lol the story about your friend though why would you actually describe yourself openly as a sex worker, I'd want to keep that a secret if it was me.
>>2036021Anon 'fact checking' means checking if the facts stated are correct, which they were, not checking whether every single headline posted by some screenshotted website I've never visited is correct. I don't have time for that shit and neither does any other sane person. On that topic though has anyone else noticed how COVID caused the MO of online shills to develop? It used to be that shills would actually try to 'fact check' or argue against claims themselves but I've noticed that since 2020 shills now consider it acceptable to just attack a 'source' without even doing any fact checking. It usually goes like this:
>Government and ISPs/big media and search engine companies collude to censor all information on a topic they don't want normies hearing about>Interested normies then search for info elsewhere like on twitter, Substack blogs, or random smaller websites>These are unreliable sources so you're retarded for getting this information! If we haven't made the information available on big news websites it's not important even if it's true!>Normies try to go to 'reliable' sources like pubmed/scientific journals directly>Omg it's dangerous to do your own research! You should only find things out through mainstream media journalists and government websites!(derailing) No. 2036913
>>2035867I understand that I'm probably not going to convince you of anything other than I'm an agent of the state, but I hope you realize that when I gave you that information, I wanted to tell you that your anecdotal evidence of reasonable and rational anti-vax skeptics is just as
valid as my anecdotal evidence about the people I interacted with, including my family.
And when I say I "had" to speak to them, it means that I am obligated to not hang up just because a person's emotional state derails a conversation. I couldn't say "you're wrong/right", and as a result (the whole point of me sharing this with you) I was given different perspectives besides whatever the government was offering. The entire year of 2020 for my state was madness. No eviction prevention, no mortgage assistance, usual social services became limited severely and as a result, less people were helped. Social distancing guidelines that kept changing, testing guidelines that kept changing, and the panic and rage induced by the media only made it more confusing and worse, and we took the brunt of all the rage people had towards the media and the state and their fellow citizens.
ISSUE as a propagandist? No, I had an issue with how clearly NOBODY knew what the fuck was going on or what they were talking about, including the state, who had to get their advice from the federal CDC, whos guidelines were confusing and written for professional medical staff rather than the public.
I feel like you're being dense. I'm not upset about what the state "made me do", I'm upset because once again, I was assigned to be the whipping boy for the state (like my other coworkers). It's not upsetting to hear people share that sentiment, it's upsetting to remember all the fucking people suffering because of propaganda and lack of resources that were, at the end, too little to late for the majority of people and businesses.
And no, it's not "objectively" true that anti vaxxers didn't harm anyone and were just "minding their own business", it's subjective, because that's you're subjective experience. Not everyone shares your "reasonable, rational anti-vaccine/vaccine skeptic" experiences. And to be so dense as to imply that I'm just a propagandist and that's why I don't get it, is insane.
Oppression, subjugation… we were all oppressed and subjugated, unless you were somehow making money or not losing loved ones/jobs/faith in humanity during this period.
No. 2116919
>>2115754I noticed a bunch of women "converted to islam" in the past year. I wonder how long it will be until they stop.
I haven't noticed any increase in Christianity, but I'm in Europe, many people are just Christian in name and on holidays.
No. 2117327
>>2117302the trad uptick is weird, only because it's a reflection of the failing job market and economy but at the same time standards for being parents have increased to the point where you're accused of being
abusive for not buying your kid expensive cars, a huge house, etc
No. 2117391
>>2117363Burn out + doom applying. I see a lot of trad girls explain their story about how they'll apply to jobs for months and it's like "closed door after closed door". Not to mention women are also more likely to have
abusive families than men, so if you're trying to escape your
abusive parents you can't afford the millionth rejection email
No. 2117915
>>2117909>Technically the generation that Gen Z produces will be Gen AlphaNo, Gen Alpha are the children of Millennials. Maybe the Zoomers born in '97 or '98 might have some children that belong to Gen Alpha, but the Generation raised by Zoomers has yet to be named or classified yet as far as I'm aware. Most Zoomers right now are 17-20, they're not having children en masse like Millennials aged 28-40 right now.
>>2117911Gen X is apathetic, sarcastic, disillusioned, and post-modern. Their children share the same traits, but modified to exist in the digital world. Boomers were selfish, egoistic, and emotionally stunted, so naturally their children and even their children's children will be too.
No. 2117980
>>2117915>Millennials from 28-40So what is this mysterious generation from 20 to 28 kek
You’re still correct though, when gen z has kids it will be gen beta or whatever. Aren’t generations like 15 years? If gen z ends in 2010 we’re already entering the gen beta births.
No. 2117991
>>2117988Who even comes up with, “official” generations btw? If they’re not even the same length.
I don’t know about sources, I just only know that gen z seems loosely defined as something like 96 to 2010, 2015 seems pretty late. People in their late 20s are the zilennials or MZ or whatever. Tbh I think theres a big split where the older half and younger half of zoomers are like two different generations. The younger half is basically gen alpha.
No. 2117994
>>2117988No its 81-96
97 and 98 onwards are not millenials
No. 2118011
File: 1722651601392.jpg (245.92 KB, 1500x1000, Buff-Bear-Bread-572690612.jpg)
>summer 2021
>no mask anymore because fuck that
>also unvaccinated
>get harassed by slave wage worker at store bc m-m-muh mask!
>tells me to get out of store and laughs at me as i leave
>decide to get buff. like actually ripped.
>plan is to get insanely strong then find the cunt and beat the shit out of her
>6 months later
>workout regime fixes EVERYTHING
>depression gone. insomnia gone. stomach issues gone. diet is insanely better and i stop eating processed food completely. i feel the best i've felt in years, mentally and physically
>3 years later
>picrel i became buff and alot stronger. can now outrun/outwalk all peers and outlift all the women in my family and friend group, sometimes to the point where they don't need a man to do the heavy lifting, they just ask for me
>reads this thread and remembers the reason why i started working out/weight lifting in the first place
>maybe the motivation all along was our enemies?
No. 2154877
File: 1724660234399.png (345.63 KB, 1170x821, jCRJf0g.png)
seeing a pattern
No. 2165804
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No. 2177791
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No. 2244247
File: 1730884726208.jpg (212.91 KB, 823x896, 1724501762990.jpg)
I think most long covid truthers were clearly all neurotics with previous forms of mental illness, but the pandemic actually justified their paranoia, until it was over and now they've lost what kept them normal. My aunt was the same way until her son threatened to never visit her again unless she overcame her fears and actually spent time with his family, and she did, and eventually it became something she could finally let go
No. 2257170
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this woman is a university professor
No. 2257762
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The only thing I miss is Walmart and planet fitness open 24/7. Us vampires gotta run our errands too. Also hate how everyone is socially stunted
No. 2273562
File: 1732382346334.jpg (111.66 KB, 1061x1061, My.jpg)
did you think covid was real?
No. 2273604
>>2273562It certainly was, but how much of what we were told through corporate propag…media was accurate, that's another question.
https://21stcenturywire.com/2020/12/28/mysterious-disappearance-of-flu-in-san-diego-prompted-audit-of-covid-records/#disqus_thread Glad Pfizer, Moderna and others could get rich through government contracts tho, they deserved it (even though much of their vaccines were discarded/never used,not delivered, or worked at all (
https://www.europereloaded.com/eu-countries-destroy-e4b-worth-of-covid-vaccines-likely-much-more/ )
No. 2273833
>>2273562yes I think COVID-19 is/was a disease that is affecting people in unknown ways. Yes I think that before we developed any kind of vaccine, it was going to seriously threaten our population. But I also think that our government(s) bottom line was productivity and money. Also the idea of having a bigger population than other competing countries when all was said and done. I know as a USAfag we were personally involved in a disinformation campaign in other countries to discourage people from getting the vaccine - that may have been because we were trying to shill our own product, and it was purely a money making tactic and not a genocidal impulse to reduce the population of other countries. But I still worry about that. I think the intense focus of other countries on preventing the spread of COVID-19 in comparison to the USA was just to get ahead of us population-and-numbers-wise. I think it was a real boon to our economy to pay a bunch of people to sit around and do nothing while the banks still demanded their monthly cut of our paychecks. I think it was a perfect opportunity to manipulate us, especially when we had a significant election during that period of time, as well as a boom in a lot of different purely-online industries, and more focus on different types of political and social media messaging. I think that COVID-19 as a pandemic was taken advantage of by people that already controlled the flow of wealth and measures of power. I also think that the people in charge really don't give a shit about the long term effects of any kind of disease or illness as long as their bottom line projections aren't affected too much. I think that our CDCs or equivalent offices have been prepared for these types of pandemics for as long as we've had the offices established, so their response isn't so suspicious. But the mixed messaging in America, the corporations vying for influence in national vaccination rollouts, the power struggles in states depending on the political affiliation, the complete disregard/inability to conceive of the scientific method or science in general, or even trust "science" as a "process"… there's so much that inherently damages the public's trust in mainstream health systems. I think we will probably not know the full machinations of the government and scientific community in its reaction to COVID-19 until I'm like 90 years old
No. 2275446
>>2273562No tbh. I mean yes I thought it was 'real' in the sense of being an actual virus that was infecting people. But no I didn't think it was 'real' in the sense most people seemed to use the term, i.e., a very dangerous and unprecedented and novel virus. I think if it were not for the political and institutional response to COVID no one would have noticed it existed and it would have likely been an average-to-bad flu year as normal. It becomes a lot clearer if you look at jurisdictions that had 'strong' responses like mass ventilation (NYC for example) and compare them to places that had weak responses or no responses when the virus was at its peak… only the areas with strong responses had significant excess death which I believe to be iatrogenic/nosocomial in origin. There was a lot of essentially deliberate killing too like with DNRs and MAID medications given as part of 'COVID treatments' in some areas but I think a bigger killer was refusing abx for pneumonia/sepsis during that time, ventilation, and how people were treated who were institutionalized.
It was never a serious threat to any population in the world to any greater degree than any other ILI except for the politics, and hundreds of scientific publications/national and regional datasets demonstrate this clearly.
No. 2289943
>>2289910Well, I mask in some places (train, bus) because for years I didn't even get a fucking cold and that was great. I got COVID from a worthless moid who came to work positive (unmasked, but it wouldn't have helped probably).
I don't really engage with people who want to make it an issue beyond that. It's a personal choice. If I lived with someone with cancer or serious health problems, I would mask more for them. But I don't.
No. 2289977
>>2289910I wasn't sick since before the pandemic until my retarded father came to visit with a cold 5 months ago and brought the entire household down with him.
This alone makes masking worth it to me. I forgot what it was like being sick and I would love to never do it again. Also I like hiding my face from freaks and moids.
No. 2291486
>>2290164I too wear masks when I'm sick now and need to go outside. I think where I live people assume you're sick nowadays if you wear one so you get the added bonus of people distancing themselves a bit from you, but they appreciate the effort.
>>2291475Exactly. Just today I had the person on the bus hacking up a lung into their bare hands. You'd think people would at least have learned to cough into their elbows, but alas. Wear a mask when you're sick, people.
No. 2291521
>>2244247Even before the pandemic my dad had been extremely far left politically, and he’s been a doomsday prepper for years, thinking the world as we know it would end any day now due to a global financial collapse. When covid happened, I think he felt extremely vindicated, like “I told you the world was going to end within our lifetimes!” But now it’s 4 years later, life has largely returned to how it was in 2019, and yet my dad refuses to ever get on an airplane again, he quit his job, and he wears a mask everywhere indoors due to covid. It’s sad that my dad has become a paranoid crazy person, but he’s an adult and I guess if that’s how he’s choosing to live his life, so be it.
