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File: 1717610058583.jpg (183.6 KB, 1014x586, 1614544034317.jpg)

No. 2037097

This thread is to discuss your grievances with gender ideology.

>What is gender ideology?

Foundational to transgenderism, gender ideology is the belief that one’s “internal gender” can contradict one’s biological sex.

Gender ideology operates much like a religious cult. There is no scientific evidence that supports the notion that we have an “internal gender,” and yet doctors now medicalize and sterilize children with “transgender identities” who have been groomed by the cult. Anyone who does not reaffirm these delusions is labelled as a “transphobe” in order to discredit any dissenting voices of the cult.

Previous threads:
>>>/ot/1894283
>>>/ot/1941872
>>>/ot/1991983

Relevant /snow/ threads:
>>>/snow/1987643 (MTF general)
>>>/snow/1984807 (FTM general)

Gender critical in /ot/ resurrection edition!
This thread is a spiritual successor to https://lolcow.farm/2X/, a now hidden board that includes further discussions on this topic.(do not post threads until the old one reaches the post limit)

No. 2037882

>>2037097
>(do not post threads until the old one reaches the post limit)
Huh? Then what is the
>Thread has reached 1100 posts. The thread will be locked and you will be unable to post in it shortly after it exceeds 1200 posts. Please begin preparing a new thread and post a link to it when it's created.
message for?
What rule am I breaking here?

No. 2037902

>>2037882
Oh nonnie, you're a massive newfag and should have lurked more before starting to make threads but you only make a new thread once the thread reaches 1200 posts. At 1200 posts there's still a bit of time where you can post the link to the new thread.

No. 2038313

File: 1717686041136.jpg (56.92 KB, 1080x186, _r.jpg)


No. 2038505

Realistically, how can we fight a glowie-run psy-op when we are nobodies with no capital?

No. 2038665

I have no horse in this race but based thread pic.

No. 2038958

>>2038313
I don't know why but TiM-on-TiF crime and DV just makes me especially sad and angry. TiFs have even less tools to make sense of it or discuss it than the average woman.
Things like this reminds me of a trend in my country where old 'alt' TiMs (punk, goth, marginal politics, whatever niche they belong to) will often date really young/minor TiFs and the occasional young TiM. There are social scenes where the default couple is some crumbling autogynephile in a latex miniskirt and a prey-eyed runaway teenager with SH scars. I wish i was exaggerating but i'm not. I know just enough about these scenes to have heard of them, and as expected so much of these TiMs are pedophiles who gravitate towards women who try (unvoluntarily or not) to look like young boys or actual male teenagers. It sounds like a cruel joke, or a particularly bad south park episode where the punchline is some club where pedophiles and teens hang out together

No. 2039061

>>2036141
i saw one on a dumpster (kek) in the same area so i think it was put up by someone, but the coffee shop 100% supports it. the cashier was a tranny and the area i’m in is stupidly ‘woke’. sucks because i used to like this place but i should’ve known better

No. 2039181

Like twink death, lesbian death exists

No. 2039184

File: 1717726729179.jpeg (449.52 KB, 750x929, IMG_1153.jpeg)

>>2039181
samefag. someone wake me up from this nightmare please dear god I know none of this life is real

No. 2039186

>>2039184
Depressing that Aidens are usually better looking than 99% of biological males

No. 2039195

>>2039186
so basically butches with her titties chopped off look better than most men, pretty much!

No. 2039196

>>2039181
she's actually quite hot but holy shit that hairstyle is horrible, grow it out and get a shaggy cut or do a proper undercut

No. 2039197

File: 1717727984460.jpeg (68.3 KB, 308x226, IMG_1154.jpeg)

>>2039196
I busted out laughing when I saw that. Peewee Herman looking ass

No. 2039199

>Terfs actually want to step on my balls and carving a bunch of vaginas with a knife onto yourself actually makes you more of a woman
I'm kinda surprised this guy doesn't have a thread yet.

No. 2039209

>>2039199
I’m tired of this shit, it’s obvious as clear day men are only troons to make actual women visibly uncomfortable with their sexual perversions because they get on to it. Men have gotten so creative with their degeneracy and torture methods they figured out how to evade the concept of consent. I’m also annoyed at these men that are obsessed with little girl anime characters because it’s a showcases full unabashed male privilege in all of its glory. We have allowed the equivalent of the creepy diddler who opens his coat to show his naked body in front of children and women in a park to walk free and given rights and medical privileges that women can only dream of. Women are too passive with this shit, the only way to solve this is by making them fearful again

No. 2039414

>>2038958
Funny how those TiFs never find it strange that they are just repeating a pattern of adult men dating minor women with issues - never the other way around.

No. 2039452

>>2038396
You mean '(no longer) feeling like a woman' is gendie speak that means 'going to TIF out'.

No. 2039454

>>2039199
Weird how they always go for the hyperviolent games like Dasaku (which has a serial killer troon protagonist) filled with snuff shit.
They should really be playing Fraternite if they want to see a stunning and brave faggot get groomed into cutting his own dick off.

No. 2039456

>>2039454
troons have serial killer energy so it adds nothing

No. 2039461

File: 1717755875094.png (507.2 KB, 600x909, IMG_1171.png)


No. 2039462

File: 1717755923030.png (1.89 MB, 659x5713, IMG_1157.png)

this is from a video where andrew tate states that he would rather sleep with a TIM who looked like Megan Fox rather than a TIF who looked like hulk hogan and any man who says that he would have piv sex with the tif is actually gay. Of course, the replies and qrts are filled with troons and libfems unironically agreeing with him and calling him based

No. 2039473

>>2038958
Wow this was a horrifying thing to learn about.

No. 2039482

>>2039461
Rent free

No. 2039627

>>2039462
>people are just going for genitalia under straight pressure
kek because it's only heterosexuals that experience single sex attraction. these people resent lesbians and gays who don't go along with their larping so much that they refuse to even acknowledge their existence

No. 2039656

>>2039462
>libfem
>liberal feminist
>isnt tate feminist's enemy?

No. 2039661

>>2039199
I'm so fucking tired of being jumpscared by this faggot's voice. Being a woman who likes visual novels is suffering.

No. 2039682

>>2039661
Reminds me of blaire white smh

No. 2039765

>>2039199
I'm tired of troons parading around the most shallow ryona-filled nukige like its high art just because it appeals to their fetish or has an unironic tranny character with depression or some shit.

No. 2039865

>>2039765
Is the peaking detrans nona that was on the TIF thread here? Real time peakings are always interesting to me.

No. 2039918

>>2039656
Libfems call themselves "feminists" but actually help support the patriarchy. It makes sense

No. 2039923

>>2039865
It looked to me like "TrashyFTMAlien" and the woman who peaked were two different people…? I'm not sure

No. 2039995

>>2039462
what is this pattern of incredibly misogynistic scrotes being bisexual? its so common in the black community as well. is it resentment towards women because they "have" to be with them in order to get the social clout amongst men?

No. 2040023

File: 1717795025347.jpeg (113.26 KB, 620x1008, IMG_2792.jpeg)

maybe there's hope for libs

No. 2040031

>>2040023
The more exposure to troon ideology, the more questions normies have to tangle with. Sunlight is the best disinfectant, when all you saw was one or two sadsack HSTS on MSNBC talking about how wearing a wig made them see life as worth living…you think sure, whatever, they’re not hurting anyone. But once your daughter wants to start taking testosterone or the guy you knew was a horndog pervert starts claiming he is actually a woman…if you’re not retarded you start to wonder.

No. 2040217

>>2039923
I was also confused, but I suspect it was the same poster that stopped using the name

No. 2040226

File: 1717806309189.png (111.53 KB, 699x776, gendrulls.png)

For curiositiies sake I tried to make a C.ai Terf that would be easily searchable, but loaded with rational answers to certain common buzzwords. Nothing inflammatory, just basic things like "being a trans girls isn't wearing a dress, boys can wear dresses too!"

I've been trying it out and even the most innocuous question will give the "AI GENERATED A REPLY THAT DOESN'T MEET OUR GUIDELINES". I'm not asking anything remotely nsfw, just being vaguely gc to a bot I've programmed to be gc, and the filter still catches it. It's bizzare.

No. 2040231

File: 1717806601562.jpeg (34.5 KB, 262x174, IMG_1168.jpeg)

>>2040226
This is what happens when only tranny tech devs get to hand select data they stole from spying on citizens and buying it from third parties. They are content when picrel happens but god forbid you make fun of men in dresses, scawieeee

No. 2040240

>>2040231
Trannies are enormous hypocrites. They can joke, insult, or straight up degrade entire groups of people but the minute people even point out the reality that they'll never be women, it's lock-down. The most narcissistic people I've ever seen in my life.

No. 2040534

>>2040240
Narcissism is a pre-requisite to becoming a tranny.

No. 2040553

File: 1717824288060.jpg (78.8 KB, 657x313, Clipboard01.jpg)


No. 2040640

>>2039995
Perhaps being same-sex attracted makes them feel insecure about their masculinity (internalized homophobia) so they try to compensate for it by becoming aggressively "manly" and subjugating women? Sad that misogyny is seen as a "manly" trait; it should be the opposite.

No. 2040647

File: 1717834332241.png (232.32 KB, 2646x844, ?.png)

>>2040217
In that case she's pretending to be two people KEK

No. 2040673

>>2040226
Why does it immediately start preaching about trans women when asked about girls??

No. 2040680

>>2040226
We need to shame autistic TIMs more because they end up being programmers and Wikipedia editors and then shit like this takes place

No. 2040738

>>2039865
I’m here. I’m not the trashy alien anon.
Been reading a lot. Tbh pretty fucked up about it all, especially after actually reading a wider range of feminist writings instead of just relying on the libfem takes I was getting from my general friend group.

No. 2040742

>>2040647
The response “Hur dur it was just a joke” was the final straw for me. Crazy after reading the threads and that was what pushed me over.

No. 2040747

>>2040647
Possibly the most "girly" response I've seen on here. "Oh noes, I'm getting negative social reactions? Oh, I didn't mean it, and I'm just a little so-and-so, please don't be mad at me!!1! Now I need to do a little send-off because I'm always performing, tee-hee" Imagine your brain actually operating like that and thinking you have anything in common with moids

No. 2040759

File: 1717849975466.png (40.35 KB, 639x300, 74777impalalal.png)

>>2040534
Literally. That troon who goes around stuffing his face on tiktok and screaming at waitstaff is being discussed on twitter again, and the line seems to be that if they'd dare to call a full grown man a 'he', they must also be screaming racial slurs at full volume or something. Just narcissists trying to squeeze themselves into any and all opressed niches to confirm their persecution complexes.

No. 2040760

>>2040553
god the daily mail is so stupid. peep honter's infamous schizoid tranny-ramblings being attributed to the Nashville shooter chick. where are their editors?

No. 2040794

>>2040759
when will these people understand that correctly identifying a person's sex is not the same thing as calling someone a racial slur

No. 2040895

>>2038958
I noticed this too. But when TIFs do develop a pattern recognition about it being misogyny and male abuse, they're smeared, abused more, and thrown out. I was friends with an ex-TIF who dealt with that.

No. 2040906

>>2040023
Kek it's so funny how "listen to trans people" backfired. The more people see them for what they are the less support they get.

No. 2040928

>>2040738
Really glad to hear that anon. Welcome back to reality

No. 2040953

>>2038313
I find very telling the fact that the article "misgenders" her, and you can bet that wouldn't be the case if the shooter was a moid. If only handmaidens had a backbone and showed to trannies the same didain men show to TIFs

No. 2040970

>>2040895
I’ve seen some correctly identifying that adult TIMs joking about trading for teenage TIFs’ breasts is creepy and asking them to stop on Reddit.

No. 2041090

>>2040906
You love to see it.

No. 2041189

Nonnas, do you have any tips on how to accept the transness of my loved ones while being gender critical? I can't view them as what they claim to be but I don't want to cut ties either because they're not bad people. I fear I'll insult them by being too blunt and honest about my views.

No. 2041211

>>2041189
I take a "centrist" approach and word it nicely. I tolerate it, I use their words, but I don't go out of my way to lovebomb about how they're a "real" version of what they identify as. People can be factually wrong and still not be bad people. I know a lot of GCs hate that, but I still exist in society and it's not feasible to have no friends outside of anonymous spaces, so I have to go halfsies sometimes. Ex. "They're valid but have different issues from people born male/female", "there should be 'cis' woman spaces and trans-only spaces", "people can do whatever they want with their bodies but there's risks for kids" and often namedrop detrans youtubers who are more moderate/truscum on gender issues. I dunno. I've had religious friends who believed in creationism but didn't try to convert me, so I had to just not talk about it. If tolerating them and being centrist about it isn't good enough for them, I just drop ties or make excuses to not talk anymore.

No. 2041524

>>2041189
Remind yourself they're subject to change and may have very good reasons to troon out, at least from their perspective. After all, 'trans' identity is a lie and they still are themselves, qualities included. Within reason ofc, if you sense they would throw you out or insult you if they realize you don't align on their views, distance yourself. Self-respect is important, if you do the whole pronoun song and dance but they insist on you validating them in particular ways or ever 'test' you, don't bother with them

No. 2041801

>>2041189
Be completely normal with them. Don't change how you act around them, don't shit talk them to the rest of the family because that's absolutely going to bite you in the ass, and don't change your own life to fit their retarded ideas of gender no matter how much of a stink they make about it. When they inevitably try to discuss their retardation with you, give short, simple answers that they don't necessarily want to hear but which can't be taken as twansphobic. Eg, if they ask you why you wear blue jeans instead of a pink mini dress with BIMBO on the tits, point out that everyone wears jeans and you've never worn anything close to an outfit like the one they're describing. If they ask you if you'd ever date a troon, say you can't tell who you'd date unless you knew the person, because being a gendie doesn't automatically mean you're compatible. Ideally, don't be alone with the gendie, always have someone else with you that the gendie has decided is a safe person and someone that you know will back you up.
They'll change. Most of them detrans after 7 years, some hold on longer out of spite or desperation, some detrans quite quickly, some desist without doing more than playing pretend with their friends and families. Pushing back might make them more likely to prove their transness by getting surgeries or going on hormones sooner than they planned to, and that's a path to the 41%. Grey rock them as hard as possible when they start talking about gender shit. Depending on what sort of relationship you have with the person, you could document their descent into the cult and then show them how far they've fallen. For example, you could film yourself asking everyone in your family what three things they're most thankful for on Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Years, then compile it into a single video and share it with the family. Because troons live in delusion, seeing themselves (looking and sounding like their real gender, with no filters) talking only about gender shit while everyone else has meaningful things to say can help to snap them out of it, if they're not completely entrenched in the cult. I've done similar things with friends who've been swallowed up by MLMs and it's worked- since it's the same cult mindset it'll probably work for troons too, especially since they'll be able to see and hear themselves the same way everyone else does.
The most important thing is to be accepting and kind. Don't encourage them, but make it clear that they matter a lot to you no matter what, and if they start to come back from the brainwashing, hold back on saying how you're glad they're out of the woods. A lot of cult survivors double down on their bullshit if they start to doubt themselves and are met with 'the haters', if you're non-judgemental and detached they'll probably see you as someone they can talk to safely.

No. 2041847

>>2037097
Can I just ask as someone who is merely curious, is there no world in which a trans person can exist to you? I mean personally to me I think being trans is pretty rare but its been somehow weaponized by the health industry, perhaps appealing to people (specifically young people) who desperately want to fit in to the culture. There's already people who regret it, and I suspect the number will build, but grifters are everywhere for anything so its not exactly surprising.

No. 2041851

>>2041847
I dont think there is any legit trans person. I mean, I remember back in the 1990s is when I first heard of them, but it was like 1 in 1,000,000. Most people were just gay and drag queens/cross dressers. No man legit thought he was a woman. I feel like this really is a new phenomenon brought on by soy boys and gay men who cant accept just being gay. In rare cases, it's men who are straight that just want to like 'feminine' hobbies, but we all know gender roles and gender hobbies are usually dictated by the culture around you, rather than your actual chromosomes. I dont think a true trans person exist, only the mentally ill and deeply confused.

No. 2041856

>>2039461
Every time a tranny seethes, JK makes more money. kek

No. 2041864

>>2041847
I suppose it depends on what you mean by “exist”. They claim that we don’t want them to exist but what do they mean by that? It often sounds like they’re implying we want them killed, but I think it’s more accurate to say we just don’t want them to exist legally as women. We don’t want to be compelled to play along with their delusions. And we don’t want to be punished for speaking basic facts like sex cannot be changed and really, really wanting to be something does not actually make you that thing.
I’m curious when you say you think being trans is real but rare, could you elaborate? Because even in the case that someone was experiencing genuine dysphoria over their sex, that doesn’t make them the opposite sex. And I don’t see why I should be obligated to treat them as such. I’d only do so out of pity anyway, like entertaining a demented persons gibberish because they’re old and dying anyway and there’s no sense in upsetting them. I view them like any other person suffering from delusional thinking. I’m somewhat sympathetic, but not enough to give them any ounce of authority. In no other circumstance would any credible professional encourage a delusional person’s beliefs, even to the point of surgical intervention. So why is this the exception?
For me personally, of course trans people exist. They just don’t exist as the gender they are trying to mimic.

No. 2041867

File: 1717899326765.jpg (60.79 KB, 597x754, 6320915_2_l.jpg)

>>2041847
The ONLY way that could be possible is if a boy was raised entirely by women, treated exactly the same (psychological scarring, emotional, physical, etc.), never exposed to any men, and never exposed to any outside media that would influence him. And even then I don't think it would work. Biology dictates our behavior, whether we like it or not. (Why else would women post ugly scrotes when they're ovulating kek)

No. 2041873

>>2041864

pardon me, I guess I just meant "exist" in the sense that they live and are acknowledged as men/women, the sex they desire to be.

there are trans people where you genuinely wouldn't be able to tell, or don't make it their entire personalities. They don't think about it that hard and it comes to them naturally.

To me idk, because I see cis people put on a performative view of gender just as much as any trans person would. (cosmetic surgeries, over the top clothes, etc..)

I think people see it as fashion, when in fact it's something that a person can deeply struggle with. They're hopping on to the trend because its not cool to be cis or white or whatever, and they're not thinking of the logistics they're just seeing the approval of their peers.

No. 2041875

>>2041873

sorry idk why the formatting on this got fucked.

No. 2041883

First time I notice a TIF in the wild and it's a kid playing the lead role of Shrek in my niece's middle school play…
I really hope that kid grows out of it.

No. 2041895

>>2041873
>cis people put on a performative view of gender just as much as any trans person would. (cosmetic surgeries, over the top clothes, etc..)
anon, if i can change your mind about a single thing let it be this one: i know this argument is probably just one you've seen in TRA circles, but claiming that cosmetic surgery can be "gender affirming" for "cis" women is probably one of the most evil arguments i've ever seen in my life and should qualify as peaking material in and of itself. cosmetic surgery for women is a vile, predatory industry built on constantly siphoning money out of women for ever-changing trends at the cost of their own health. the fact that this could ever in a million years be viewed as "gender affirming" is a sign of a deeply, deeply fucked up and misogynistic society. it's also rather strange how men aren't the ones sinking tens of thousands into "empowering" cosmetic surgery, or wearing "over the top clothes" (probably bonefucking heels, asbestos facepaint, etc.), they're just existing in their natural state with comfortable clothes. is that really the view we want to push? that womanhood is artificial, uncomfortable, a risk to health, while men get to enjoy themselves as human beings? we should be moving away from the conceptions that stereotypes = gender, not encouraging it just because it's already happening. if what i said isn't enough, then please give https://archive.ph/TPeDf this post a read, from someone with firsthand experience debunking this claim. read this, and tell me if the people out there seriously arguing that cosmetic surgery is "gender affirming" can really be trusted to have anyone's best interests at heart.

No. 2041896

>>2041847
The problem with transgender existing as a concept is that it puts women in cages. So while the definition of a woman is a adult human female, the existence of transwomen claims that is false, that instead a woman is boobs, makeup, dress, long hair, and sexual submission. So you then run into the problem of, what if an adult human female doesn't do one of those things? Is a woman with a mastectomy not a woman? What about a woman who doesn't wear make up or dresses? By telling women that we are a series of characteristics that is constantly changing, you are saying that any woman that does not conform isn't a woman. So the very existence of transwomen relies on stereotypes.
I think I would be way more okay if everyone was treated like this. So if I was able to say that I'm black because I love collecting sneakers, eating fried chicken, and listening to rap music and I could then use me identifying as black to receive black only scholarships or business grants. Or if I said I identify as a dolphin, and so the government legally had to provide me with a saltwater tank and anyone who said I wasn't a dolphin would receive death threats and would lose their job and be arrested.

No. 2041901

>>2041895

>claiming that cosmetic surgery can be "gender affirming" for "cis" women is probably one of the most evil arguments i've ever seen in my life


that's not what I said. I never said that it was gender affirming I said that's what they sometimes do. My point was that I'm afraid of the possibility that people are confusing obnoxious people with trans people, or grifters wanting to be trans.

Certainly the surgical industry can be disgusting, but that just supports my argument of the medical industry pushing this on people for profit.

Are there not trans people that don't dress stereotypically? Because I've seen those myself. I mean they're trans obv but are just in a shirt and jeans or something.

No. 2041906

>>2041901
>>2041901
Say, even if a TIM were to be masculine while being trans (say like, dresses like a butch or something), that still would not matter as the very act of “being trans” is upholding gender as social classes. The way gender works now as a cast system is insidious towards women and will exist despite stereotypes. Trying to put yourself into the cast system, as a male, is just enforcing the cast system by validating it as true and real. You cannot be trans without the gender cast system. Freedom from the gender cast system and being trans cannot coexist. Trans identities rely on the cast system.Ideally the gender cast system would not exist and people can express themsleves without having to conform to any “gender” ideal, which would actually alleviate the symptoms and pain of having gender dysphoria. How can you have gender dysphoria if the idea of gender would no longer exist? Gender abolition is a net positive for “trans” and not trans people.

No. 2041907

>>2041901
Nta, but I would like to know what you mean by a real trans person and what do you define as a grifter.
Because what I've seen so far is lesbians that confuse being stone butches with wanting to be a moid and ugly moids not knowing how to cope with being ugly by assuming that because they're not what kind of moid they wanted to be, that they must be women now.
Greentext to me the characteristics of a trve trans and a grifter.

No. 2041911

>>2041895
>>2041906
Samefag and even if we all lived in a genderless world there would still be people who see the other sex and want to physically look like it. At that point that’s their own autonomy to do that, even if it hurts them, and the lack of gender will make it so they don’t have to change their personality to do that. So that’s a harm reduction positive for trans in a gender abolition society.
I obviously think that wanting to chop off your dick is a mental illness, if someone feels suicidal over their body parts, it’s not the body parts, it’s their mental illness at play. I wish there was actual research on it, but obv big pharma capes for trans shit because it makes them money. They get to castrate mentally ill people and make buck, while the said mentally ill people feel like it’s working. The suicide rate is so high because it’s obviously not HRT or surgeries that fixes their mental state, it’s probably something deeper. Inb4 “41% bc they are opressed and people hate them” how come black peoples suicide rate aren’t that high. Disabled people. Immigrants. They’re just as opressed. It’s because these are literal basket cases. Big pharma cannot lose the trans grift because if they were to actually cure and heal their mental illness, they no longer get their cash cow life long patients. I think the whole idea of transitioning people with gender dysphoria is evil, it’s just fucking up already mentally ill people. I am anti transgender ideology BECAUSE I care about those suffering from it, not in spite of them.

No. 2041916

>>2041906
Forgive me for taking so long to respond, it's just some terms are kind of lost on me. I didn't go to school for sociology and a lot of this stuff is also new to my understanding (also this board).

I can't tell if you're arguing for or against a gender caste system because the freedom from gender to me sounds more inline with the trans theory. If we're going merely by sex at birth then that's pretty concrete. Are you trying to say science should be placed above all else? Because I mean, I see that.

No. 2041928

>>2041901
ayrt, i'm glad to hear that you don't support the view of cosmetic surgery as gender affirming. as for your question about "legitimate" trans people now: i do not subscribe to viewing gender dysphoria as some kind of mythical exception amongst other kinda of body incongruences. there are people with all kinds of body dysmorphia, body integrity identity disorder, racial dysphoria, so on and so forth. now certain types of body dysmorphia may be enabled by plastic surgeon scum (largely against women as discussed prior), but the rest are by and large seen as things that shouldn't be indulged in or socially validated, much less medically validated via doctors performing skin bleaching/darkening, limb cutting, or other such horrific acts. the first medical principle is to do no harm, and hormones/surgery go against that by messing with a healthy body to appease distress rooted in the mind.

No. 2041931

>>2041901
NTAYRT, I really don't know how you can believe in the grifter thing in 2024. There is no such thing as a 'real' trans (which is what is implied by the existence of a trans grifter) because it is a lie. You can't live a 'real' lie. We entertain lies all the time out of simple convenience or sympathy. It's a useful social ability to have but it's not conducive to finding truth.
Gay men might have mannerisms and attitudes that come naturally (i presume you're picturing this kind of trans person who appears 'feminine' even without fem clothes or pronouns). But they are male nonetheless, with average traits that correlate to their male sex and socialization (a big one would be how they relate to sex, despite claims of just wanting a normie hetero marriage). The rest, for whom it does not come naturally make up something like 80% of troons per studies (likely even more nowadays). Same thing for TiFs, except it's even more pronounced since so-called FtMs were practically unheard of for a long time.
> freedom from gender to me sounds more inline with the trans theory
The bulk of trans theory isn't interested in abolishing the caste, they're interesting in things like 'playing' with norms, getting sexual pleasure out of it, twisting legal norms to let in members of a certain sex or the other, and highlighting how they get to be 'part of' a sex (an inborn thing) because they resemble the castes' norms. It's all about word and performance games. And most of them fail at the game when it comes to 'passing'. Constantly.
If you look up prominent trans theorists, from published ones to anonymous ranters online, you will find plenty of takes that align perfectly with conventional, regressive or pornogrpahic conceptions of men and women. And even if trans people were a congregation of utopian gender abolitionists (which they aren't), most of their fights in the 'real' world reinforce the caste system. Starting with support for cosmetic surgery as necessity, pornography, the silencing of women etc. You judge a movement by what it does, not the excuses it finds when criticized.

No. 2041932

>>2041847
yes, there should be none at all

No. 2041952

>>2041847
I don't believe in "true trans" and have never found good evidence for someone being truly born in the wrong body outside of anecdotal reports of someone "feeling" that way since childhood (which can be for a multitude of reasons). Transmedicalism is a sound concept on the surface, but the more I read about "the criteria" for being "true trans" it's just repackaged homophobia and gender roles. I still have trans-identified people in my life and have been an ally for most of my life until recently (ironically my allyship led to peaking), so I try to be more moderate than most users here but I just can't believe that someone is "meant" to be the opposite sex. My main issue with transgenderism is that it's gone from being a minority to having a complete chokehold on LGB and women's movements. Trying to "get rid of" transgenderism is about as possible as getting rid of religion or conspiracy theorists, but they shouldn't have so much power.

>>2041873
>I just meant "exist" in the sense that they live and are acknowledged as men/women, the sex they desire to be.
Just because they have the right choose that lifestyle doesn't entitle others to "see" them like that. Gay people don't need to be "seen" as gay to exist, so why do trans people have to be validated and acknowledged or else? Can't they just have their sense of self without it being reinforced?

>I see cis people put on a performative view of gender just as much as any trans person would

I actually agree with this, but trans is just a symptom of that problem.

>I think people see it as fashion, when in fact it's something that a person can deeply struggle with. They're hopping on to the trend because its not cool to be cis or white or whatever, and they're not thinking of the logistics they're just seeing the approval of their peers.

You're so close to getting it.

No. 2041956

>>2041189
>I fear I'll insult them
You'll be insulting them by having even the slightest doubts about their plans and conduct, so you might as well go all the way.
What is even wrong with you? Is that person going to kill you for criticising them? Being rude to your family shows that you're close, unlike with strangers.

No. 2041968

>>2041847
Is there no world in which a schizophrenic person can exist to you? Their existence is a sad reality and should be mitigated by treating them for their condition, not encouraging them in their delusion and redefining the legal system and even the language to fit their delusional state. The society shouldn't be hostages to the mentally ill.

No. 2041974

>>2041847
No, there is no world in which a person is another sex than they are, just like there is no person who is a black white person, or a cat and human being at the same time. You are what you are.

Obviously 'trans people' exist, as in people who call themselves trans and mutilate their bodies in a variety of ways in order to ape the opposite sex, it's not like they don't exist but they're not the opposite sex.

No. 2041975

>>2041851
Most transwomen are actually straight men/AGPs, like 90% of them or something. Only a small, small minority are gay.

No. 2041984

>>2041956
Agree with this anon unless her family members are likely to get violent or completely turn on her/they're not close but I don't understand what good can come from tiptoeing around and lying to your loved ones. Conflicts with your family are not usually the end of the world but if anyone has the responsibility to do the basic kind and respectful thing for you and be honest with you it's your loved ones. Everyone else in society might tiptoe around you because of social norms but you should be able to rely on your family to level with you and tell you what they really think of your behavior if you're harming yourself or even just embarrassing yourself, so I see no point in trying to be diplomatic with family about these views unless they're distant family members you don't know well. You shouldn't go out of your way to aggravate and provoke them either but you never win with these people so why give an inch anyway?

No. 2042002

>>2037097
>>2041916
also apologizing for my late response

As the other nonnie put, no, transgender ideology is not freedom from the cast system as their idea of “freeing the cast system” is just changing what sex does what. IG males trying to fit into the female cast, ect. The issue with the cast system obviously is that it imposes personality traits (e.g girls like pink as a simple example) but also serves to keep women subservient and prone to male violence. Any sort of endorsement of this cast (e.g something as little as affirming girls like pink) is upholding it. If a TIM were to say he is a woman because he fits into the cast system, say this TIM has suffered abuse from men for instance to make this more extreme, that is backwards because why would you want to be apart of the cast system that is hurting you and others. The logical thing to do is to disavow the cast system and live your life outside of it, so live your life as your sex and don’t deny that reality while staying out of the cast system.

I tried to be nuanced with my examples but reality is, most troon logic is very simple and glaringly sexist/pro gender cast system. “Im a woman bc I played with my my moms heels and makeup” “I’m a gay man because I’ve always felt different from other girls”. I always think of Hunter Schaffers manefisto that plainly said “my gender is informed by the need to be abused by men” or something like that. troons are explicitly playing into and upholding the gender cast system.

No. 2042021

>>2041931
Samefagging just to add to the 'actions, not claims' part. Is anyone else frustrated with the relative lack of discussion around trans lobbying and its history, in favor of discussing 'queer theory' and popular TRA talking points? The fact that the core of the trans movement is a bunch of highly focused fetishistic moids (some of which are extremely rich) is the single most important factor in all of this, all the gender woo is post-hoc justification. Debunking it feels good and is necessary, but it misses a larger picture. There is a blatant connection between pro-porn/exploitation activism and trans ideology, often the people in 'Society For The Acceptance of Zoophilia and BDSM' were also in the local transvestite club. It's why they have a vested interest in hijacking feminism since any kind of serious feminism would oppose porn/prostitution/objectification, which is what troondom essentially rests on. Gluck made this point in a podcast with Murphy so i was happy someone with a pretty big following pointed this problem out. I was reading about early trans societies (3S) as part of AGP research and i could see their intimidation tactics in a simpler form and smaller scale. The wives of AGP moids were thought to be 'buffers' between these dysfunctional men and larger society. At least one sexologist implied that these men could go on to engage with their fetish in public if their wives dared to divorce them. It was like a gentler form of the constant suibaiting we're dealing with now that the tantrums have extended to all of society. A lot of accounts of 3S gatherings describe efforts by AGP moids to 'normalize' their crossdressing around their wives, turning them into supportive handmaidens. They would invite their wives in AGP hangouts to chip away at their sense of normalcy (my interpretation), and i presume these women thought 'oh well, if he's only doing it with these other weirdos and not embarrassing me in public'. This subtle threat of indecent exposure is constant thru AGP activism, including in suppoosedly self-aware anti-trans AGP men. Phil Illy and others keep implying that TERFs are pushing men into the arms of TRAs and 'aren't you sad they are chopping off their dicks?'. Nevermind that coddling these moids is what got us in this position in the first place. I'm at a point where i can't even stand the 'as long as it's in private between consenting adults' point because 99% of the time it relies on self-sacrificial women who get nothing out of it sexually or emotionally and come out degraded.
I got sidetracked but yeah, i'm annoyed at the purely theoretical approach. We discuss it here and among feminists aswell on sites like KF (simply because there's so much degeneracy KF moids can't help but connect the dots) but it's not understood broadly. It's like people think of 'gender ideology in institutions' and 'pornsick men who slip into sissification' as two distinct things when they are deeply intertwined. I suspect it's because to be truly critical of trans you have to be critical of things that greatly please men which goes quickly into radfem territory. I still hope that the next frontier of troon sexual practices (gooning, EPI, the weird anti-white cuck fetishes, increasing overt pedophilia) will change people's minds

No. 2042030

>>2042021
Great post anon and this is why I think even the coddling that a lot of 'radfems' do when it's in their real lives is too much. You give these men an inch they'll take a mile and what they want is to absolutely destroy women's rights and children's safeguarding and normalize every possible form of kink and paraphilia in society. They never stop doing more and more audacious things basically daring anyone to stop them so yeah, it's not just some theoretical discussion about what is gender really? (Although that's a discussion worth having too).

Does anyone actually read the 'academic' gender ideologues because they are all sissy fetish moids like Andrea Long Chu, not a normal self-respecting person among them.

No. 2042105

>>2041867
Why did you post a picture of a child actress? Also we did see what happened when a boy is raised like that with the Reimer twins. David Reimer was still a biological male, whose body even with hormones and a lack of testicles was obviously different from girls. You can't change someone to the opposite sex, all you end up doing is creating mutilated and traumatized people.

No. 2042150

Blogpost but I knew a girl who chose her pronoun as he/they and she's not even a tif or even got her tits chopped off, she's just a normal human woman. For reference, she dresses a little alt but quite feminine…Her reasoning for picking those retarded pronouns? It's because she doesn't feel like a woman. Tbh I can see that she has a lot of self-hate and cannot fully embrace her femininity and picking "he/they" is a way to rebel (IIRC she even had mommy issues). I hate that ppl have resorted to using these pronouns as a scapegoat instead of just going to a shrink to deal with their problems.

No. 2042159

>>2041873
My opinions:
>Sex
People can dress however they like, but for a long time male meant being born with a penis and XY chromosomes, female meant being born with a vagina and XX chromosomes. And intersex people are individuals born with genetic conditions that cause abnormal development of sex characteristics including chromosome patterns, gonads, or genitals. In order to be considered a third sex, they’d need to produce a third viable gamete. Biologically, mammalian sex is determined by the type of viable gamete formed. In the human species, there are only two viable gametes, so only two sexes. It's not possible for people to change their sex, even if they believe they're another. Humans are mammals so we have the biology of mammals.
>Gender
The concept of gender and sex used not to be separate, but now they are. So be it. Gender still doesn't really have a concrete definition. It's entirely subjective on the individual and if you ask someone what being a certain gender is, they might give you different answers. Gender isn't the only thing which if you distill enough you can't agree on a definition. If you ask the question "what is a chair?" at some point you may be unable to come to a definition that includes all chairs. The fact that we treat gender as something philosophical but not other concepts is ridiculous.
We don't make the law based on philosophy and semantics. As a society we need objective definitions which we can observe and agree on. Gender isn't observable, sex is. We must then place importance on sex not gender. It doesn't matter whether the definitions we give to words are semantically correct or whether they satisfy everyone and are completely accurate, as long as we all understand each other.
You know what else is subjective? Colors and emotions. People don't see the same colors. People don't feel the same emotions. But we still need some agreed-on definition on what "red" or "blue" is. I can't see what you see and you can't feel what I feel, so I can't be certain whether what you experience is what I experience. If we spend eons arguing about what is the correct definition, then we will never get to work.
>Gender dysphoria
People being uncomfortable with their bodies have gender dysphoria. I don't doubt that's a real thing, but it should be treated as any psychological condition that has to do with dysphoria and dysmorphia. We can't use the argument that transitioning is the only solution, because we don't know whether in other forms of dysphoria (anorexia, BIID) affirming people's beliefs could also be the best course of action. But we haven't tried it yet. Why is gender dysphoria any different?
>Rights
Transgender people have the same rights as any other person, as human rights are universal. Women may have some additional rights because they have the ability to get pregnant and these rights are needed for obvious reasons. Transgender women know they can't get pregnant so they know they don't need those rights. By changing their gender to women legally and by trans men changing their gender to men legally, things get more complicated with pregnancy rights. We need an agreed upon word for the concept "person who has the ability to conceive", and this word used to be "woman". If transgender women insist they're women they need to provide an alternative word that means "person who has the ability to conceive" and this word will be used as a replacement for women. As for men getting drafted and having to join the military, while women aren't required to do so, that's something that I believe needs to change.
>Trans- as a prefix
Transgender, transracial, transabled, transage etc are some other things people choose to transition to. Why can't we transition race, age or become disabled but can transition genders? You don't get to choose which is valid and invalid unless you provide a reason. The only reason people transition genders but not races or age is because it has become socially acceptable. Why is it socially acceptable? Because it doesn't change the status quo and may even benefit certain people. No idea or trend ever spreads without a reason. The reason in medieval ages being fat was beautiful was because fatter people were richer, they could afford food when other poorer died from starvation. The reason being thin became attractive is because Hollywood promoted it. And they promoted it because their models and celebrities were doing cocaine and other drugs that make you lose weight. Then it became the standard. The reason in medieval times being pale was seen as attractive was because only the poor workers had to go outside in the sun to work and tanned. Nothing becomes mainstream without a reason. Nothing.

No. 2042163

>>2041873
By the way anon I'm glad you asked this question and I hope you're still here to see my opinions and we can discuss them further.

No. 2042182

>>2040928
Thanks for checking in with me. It’s been a wild ride so far. I think I’m going to go do some ultimate grass touching and go live out in the desert for like a month and really rethink some things. Can’t get over how much I feel like a “betrayer” so hopefully dealing with basic survival stuff will help me get a better perspective.

Also really apperciate that nonnies are having genuine talks about the ideology and are willing to spoon feed people like me.

No. 2042183

>>2042182
Grass touching and getting off your phone/away from social media is unironically probably the single most useful thing you can do to work through things like this, since a lot of what causes cognitive dissonance and inability to fully be honest with ourselves about our own thoughts and beliefs is the pressure we get from other people constantly telling us we're 'right' or 'wrong' for believing certain things. You shouldn't feel like a betrayer if you haven't actively done something bad to anybody though, having thoughts is not betraying anybody. Betraying someone would be doing something to harm them and betray their trust, not just thinking someone is wrong after you initially agreed with them. Also, before you beat yourself up for feeling like a betrayer try to be honest with yourself about how those people you think you're betraying would, have or will treat you if you do or say something you don't agree with or believe in.

Most often with stuff like gender ideology or politics, people you share real mutual respect and love with will understand that you don't agree with their beliefs, and vice versa. Most often I've personally found that with gender ideologues they would be willing to throw me under the bus in an instant, end a friendship without warning and smear me behind my back for my beliefs, and if that's the case there wasn't mutual respect in the friendship in the first place. Even mutually respectful friendships of course can end if your beliefs and opinions just grow too far apart and incompatible, but if you feel like you can't at least talk to someone about your views ask yourself why, when you would probably at least listen to theirs.

No. 2042216

>>2039199
I can't watch a whole hour of this shit, what is timestamp for when he says that?

No. 2042291

>>2042182
Nta but good luck nonnie. Try not to fall down the rabbit hole too hard, there's a radfem -> trad pipeline.

And in general, if you were a huge TRA (not saying you were, I don't know you) it's good to recognise if you're the sort of person who tends to be really "all in" with your opinions. I still hold a lot of very left-wing views, but it's not uncommon on sites like this to find a lot of women who cape for rightoids just because they don't like trans people.

I agree with >>2042183, the best thing is a bit of grass touching, and also just hanging out with friends who are maybe neutral to this stuff or it isn't really a big part of their lives.

No. 2042320

>>2042183
Well stated.

I think that’s the big kicker for all this. The social fallout. Which is fine with a general friend group but with work/family, I’ll be playing it cool for a minute. I’m afraid that I’ll just cave when challenged or get into a mild argument. Reading up on the female socialization thing has been an unexpected mindfuck. I’ve even been trying to break out of it for normal small encounters and I still fucking default to it. It’s maddening how much it affects almost all my actions.

>>2042291
I wasn’t the most bombastic TRA. Just super into the belief that I was doing the morally right thing. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I’m not into the socially conservative bit. Trad wife shit sounds awful. Though totally understandable to warn against falling into some other scummy “good fight” now that this whole mental schema is fucking dissolving like cotton candy in water.

No. 2042337

>>2039661
>Being a woman who likes visual novels is suffering.
For real. It's kind of how I even learned about trannies in the first place, the vn community is absolutely infested with them and as a result I peaked fast from interacting with them all the time because I just wanted someone to talk to about niche vns and only moids and trannies knew them. I get why it's this way since it's a medium a lot of moids enjoy and I'm not saying otherwise but man. It's like with anime but worse. The fans are usually either degenerate moids, trannies or pick mes. I've never met another woman (or man) who was into the medium that wasn't a retard in some way except for myself. You also get the added bonus of getting shit from both sides: if you're not a tranny lover you get shit from them, and if you're a tranny hater but like visual novels because you enjoy the stories, you're also bashed kek. I just ignore both sides at this point and especially avoid the fanbases

No. 2042342

>>2042337
Samefag but for the vn in the video, I never touched it because I heard it was horrible gore shit and all the trannies loved it so I'm not surprised that video exists

No. 2042404

>>2041847
In your ideal world, how does one determine who is “really trans” and who is just a grifter, or struggling with some other kind of mental illness? And who gets to make the determination on who is “really trans” or not? The individual? The government? A doctor or psychologist or board of medical health professionals? The current mantra is “trans people know their gender identities better than you”, so you are already going against this mantra, which means that you are already a hateful bigot TERF in the eyes of people who support trans ideology.

>>2041873
Christians are allowed to exist, Hindus, Muslims, Scientologists, Jews, Mormons, QAnon people, and flat earthers are all allowed to exist, as in they are all free to believe in whatever they want. But just because someone else believes that Mohammad is the Prophet of Allah, or that our suffering is caused by body thetans from an alien war millions of years ago, does that mean everyone else should be required to believe it as well to avoid upsetting the believer? A man is free to wear a dress and believe that he’s a woman if he wants, but why should I be compelled - by general society, or in some cases by the law or by the code of conduct at my workplace - to believe that he is a woman (and have this belief reflected in actions like being okay with him being in the women’s bathroom with me)? Why is gender ideology the only ideology in current western society where the beliefs of the believer are given more weight and authority than the beliefs of everyone else around them?

No. 2042433

>>2042320
ntayrt and kind of unrelated to what you said, but i did want to point you in direction of the "peak trans" thread in the hidden board (/2X) if you're looking to lurk on a thread similar to this one. not telling you to move or anything especially given how sluggish the hidden board is, just offering further reading material since you sound starved for some new perspectives. best of luck nonna, and glad to have you here.

No. 2042463

>>2041873
>pardon me, I guess I just meant "exist" in the sense that they live and are acknowledged as men/women, the sex they desire to be.
So you think it should be a moral imperative that other people see trans people exactly as they want to be seen, even if it goes against reality? See, this "call to kindness" is why troons have infiltrated women's spaces so effectively, since women are very sensitive to accusations of being "unkind" towards other people. It doesn't affect men the same degree, since men don't have the same social obligation to pretend the water isn't wet so that somebody's feelings don't get hurt. And even if troons get their wish, even if it becomes mandatory for society to "acknowledge" their identities as real, they will still not be happy once they realize that they can't actually crawl into people's heads and force them to alter their view of reality and sex. I never saw trannies as what they claimed to be, not even back when I was still tentatively on board with their manipulative demands ("please don't kill, yourself, I will pretend that you're a woman if that's what makes you happy"), and pushing for a system where everyone is required to lie out of their asses to appease a small minority of disturbed people is pushing for an Orwellian dystopia.

No. 2042524

>>2041906
okay sorry I fell asleep last night and I'm just now reading all the responses so I'll try to explain this as best as I can.

So I think the modern trans phenomenon kinda started with the invention of Tumblr, because I don't personally remember seeing a lot of trans people prior or them being discussed outside of shows like Jerry Springer, daytime television garbage like that. Despite this though, there is a lot of historical evidence to prove that trans people have existed throughout history (think Paris is Burning or the Danish Girl etc.)

Regardless, I know that your response is probably going to be, "that still doesn't make it valid," and I understand that, but transgenderism has long been acknowledged in the medical field and has been researched by many people and I tend to stick with what scientists and researchers say first before I take anyone else's word. Does that mean it should be reclassified as a disorder? I don't know. I look at being trans as something that happens to like, .01% of the population on Earth the same way intersex people exist. It's just a really rare thing that happens sometimes whether it's pushed by hormones or genetics idk. I really can't tell you what truly causes it the same way I can't tell you why homosexuality exists in humans.

Now that being said, I do think there's something to be said for the fact that gen Z seems to be okay with every other type of person except for women, and I hear you guys on that. That's largely due to people like Andrew Tate and the alpha bros pushing their misogynistic propaganda onto them. Even in leftist circles there is SO much misogyny and it's just kinda swept under the rug (wherever men congregate though, that tends to sort of happen so I'm not exactly shocked.) I feel alienated in that sense because I can't get down with that no matter how progressive a group pretends to be. Sometimes I think though, that those people are only pretending to support trans people when really they just view them as gay men/women playing dress up and are playing along so as to not get outcasted.

No. 2042533

In a private discord server for AI shit and there are a lot of fucking weirdos in it (4chan types, incels, retards, groomers, etc. Glad I blend in). I got DMed by one of the admins telling me that I said some "sus" stuff that made a lot of people dislike me. I asked what "sus" stuff I said and he just went "I think it was some anti-trans stuff but I cant be assed to search for it". KEK

No. 2042544

>>2042533
Discord - Not Even Once

Are you unhappy with the AI threads we have? >>>/m/385404

No. 2042546

>>2042544
Ah this is for roleplaying with AI. Chatbots and shit. If lolcow had a Discord server dedicated to discussing that (and AI images, too), that would be fantastic. I like discussing jailbreaking techniques, just wish I didn't have to do it with scrotes.

No. 2042557

>>2042546
>Ah this is for roleplaying with AI. Chatbots and shit.
>>>/m/307998

No. 2042571

>>2042533
>"I think it was some anti-trans stuff "
kek the same thing has happened to me too glad im esl so i just brushed it off as me "still learning english" but i didnt stop being a terf, you really need to be discreet about how you really feel about troons which is laughable considering how much pedo and zoosadist shit goes unchecked by discord but call a man a man and youre banned

No. 2042588

>>2042524
Nonna you are like 3/4 of the way to peaking, you are so close to getting it. Once you can acknowledge that everything a trans woman does is something that a man is doing, then you will fully peak and realize just how homophobic and sexist the transgender movement is. When a trans woman wears a dress, puts on makeup, gets SRS, it is a man doing those things (for their own sexist/homophobic reasons). You think men are sexist everywhere they congregate? Browse Reddit’s r/mtf board and see how many posts you can count that are about lolis, wanting big anime titties or mommy milkers, their penises (girl dicks, princess wands, whatever) within the first 5 minutes. Please try listening to trans people.

No. 2042592

>>2042588
>Please try listening to trans people.
It kills me every time that people peak more from listening to trannies than terfs lmfaooo

No. 2042595

>>2042571
>>2042533
>transphobia is the magical word for getting a woman kicked out of a group with zero evidence for a baseless accusation

This is as retarded as that Monty Python “She’s a witch! She turned me into a newt!” skit, except that it’s happening in real life.

No. 2042602


No. 2042613

There is not enough hate in here for a hate thread. Let's fix it!

Kill trannies. Behead trannies. Roundhouse kick a tranny into the concrete. Slam dunk a trans kid into the trashcan. Crucify filthy trannies. Defecate in a tranny's food. Launch trannies into the sun. Stir fry trannies in a wok. Toss trannies into active volcanoes. Urinate into a tranny's gas tank. Judo throw trannies into a wood chipper. Twist trannies heads off. Report trannies to the IRS. Karate chop trannies in half. Curb stomp pregnant TIFs. Trap trannies in quicksand. Crush trannies in the trash compactor. Liquefy trannies in a vat of acid. Eat trannies. Dissect trannies. Exterminate trannies in the gas chamber. Stomp tranny skulls with steel toed boots. Cremate trannies in the oven. Lobotomize trannies. Mandatory castration for trannies. Grind girl dicks in the garbage disposal. Drown trannies in fried chicken grease. Vaporize trannies with a ray gun. Kick granny-trannies down the stairs. Feed trannies to alligators. Slice trannies with a katana.
TOTAL TRANNY DEATH(USER HAS BEEN PUT OUT TO PASTURE)

No. 2042622

>>2042613
cringe

No. 2042624

>>2042613
Back to kiwifarms

No. 2042625

>>2042624
>>2042622
Ignore it, probably a tranny trying to derail and demonize GCs

No. 2042630

>>2042625
Yeah, the unironic "girl dick" and "trans kids" makes it obvious. I hate when moids with fetishes come into this place, I wish they could just get sent to jail for being retarded.

No. 2042634

>>2042524
>Even in leftist circles there is SO much misogyny and it's just kinda swept under the rug
Yeah, this has been my experience too. I'll see men talk about women in objectifying ways 24/7 and call us bitches, whores etc, support transgenderism (which is by default misogynistic, since for TIMs it's all about sexist stereotypes about women and mimicking them), then turn around and still call themselves progressive. They also all support "sex work", of course, and will talk about their fetishes in public, then call you a prude if you're disgusted or don't want to hear about that shit. I hate both but at least with right wing men they don't usually pretend they don't hate women, with leftist men it's like they'll lie to your face and tell you they're progressive while still doing all this misogynistic shit and it's disgusting.

>that those people are only pretending to support trans people when really they just view them as gay men/women playing dress up and are playing along so as to not get outcasted.

oh for sure. I can tell most people are just humoring trans people or trying not to get cancelled even in the groups I'm in. I'm one of them too since I just keep my mouth shut otherwise I'll get kicked out and ostracized by everyone I know. It's bleak

No. 2042688

>>2042291
I don't really believe in the radfem to trad pipeline I think it's just an internet meme personally. But I agree with your second post - people who easily develop conformist views often feel the need to replace those views with another conformist view, which is why touching grass alone out in nature is such a great option rather than immediately just running to a welcoming (different) community.

No. 2042702

File: 1717965458356.png (288.04 KB, 850x1773, Screenshot_20240609-143436~2.p…)

With how many down votes this has, maybe reddit is getting better. It's in actuallylesbians where a male non-binary lesbian is holding court with an AMA.

No. 2042704

>>2042571
AYRT, aaaah lucky duck. Sucks there's no official lolcow discord anymore 'cause we could ramble about JBs and shit.

No. 2042724

>>2042320
I think for kicking female socialization habits it's easiest to start small, this came more naturally to me than a lot of other women because I always struggled a bit with certain aspects of female socialization from when I was a small child but when I started realizing how female socialization impacted me I started with small actions. Sitting on the bus/train if a guy sits next to me and spreads his legs, I would spread my legs back until I'm taking up the full amount of space for my seat again. Walking down the sidewalk if men expect me to move out of the way by default I grit my teeth and refuse to move aside until the other person either bumps into me or decides to step aside last minute, then I step aside slightly too but only as much as they do. When it comes to arguing (online or in person) about something I decided to deliberately avoid 'I'm sorry but' statements or using any other type of conciliatory language when I'm making a point I'm not actually sorry about making. When someone repeatedly interrupts me in a social gathering I would wait for them to finish and then politely say 'I wasn't finished' and then continue saying what I was saying. If someone asks me to do something I really don't want to do/is unreasonable to request or answer a highly personal question I just say 'no' and if pressed on why 'because I don't want to.' There's thousands of little things like this you can do that feel hard the first time but once you do them you rarely experience consequences, and after you get used to doing them it's very liberating. These things will also help you with the guilt aspect surrounding your social interactions because you realize that other people don't need you to act the way you were acting and are not harmed by you asserting yourself, they just inconvenienced you because they felt they could.

No. 2042727

File: 1717966983778.png (634.81 KB, 945x2048, 5kh0JDf.png)

peak Rowling derangement syndrome

No. 2042753

>>2042524
Yes, men with AGP fetishes did exist even in the late 19th or early 20th century and were pandered to by psychiatrists/surgeons who were into human experimentation even then, that doesn't legitimize their delusion to any degree though. Those AGPs were operating under the same delusions modern AGPs are, just probably not as much because society didn't pander to them as much back then.

The medical field has acknowledged that all kinds of delusional and crazy people exist for a long time but that doesn't really 'legitimize' their delusions it just means mental disorders have been observed and catalogued for a long time.
>Does that mean it should be reclassified as a disorder?
It always was classified as a disorder by medical researchers and the only reference to troons in the modern DSM still categorizes it as a mental disorder (they just took the adult version out of the DSM and now only have a child version). They don't 'exist the same way intersex people exist' because intersex is a physical reality whereas being 'trans' is just something you say or do, not something you just are.

Zoomers also didn't discover seeing women as lesser beings because of Andrew Tate, women have been seen as lesser beings for thousands of years and Andrew Tate is just one of many modern expressions of that.

No. 2042784

File: 1717970100693.png (415.52 KB, 778x826, IMG_2795.png)

cringe. why are libfems like this.

No. 2042846

>>2042784
ken wouldn't say that. he's too dumb

No. 2042851

File: 1717973006967.webp (26.17 KB, 468x550, boy.webp)

>>2042105
No balls and estrogen and still has a bigger jaw than most men today.

No. 2042866

>>2042524
>I tend to stick with what scientists and researchers say first
Fair enough. But scientists aren't free of scrutiny, especially if you consider highly contentious areas like the treatment of women and children by doctors and researchers, aswell as the entire history of psychology/psychiatry and 'sexology' research. 'The specialists know best and it's better in a controlled environment' is a reassuring thought, but it would be extremely naive to keep believing this in the light of how these researchers operate. Take WPATH (the leading international org on 'trans medicine') and its recent scandals re: their abject failure at upholding ethical standards (eg. giving HRT to schizophrenics without much oversight). Another example would be them citing a site like 'The Eunuch Archive' as a serious source. It's dedicated to castration fetishes. Sorry for the crude subject matter but i feel it's important to know that WPATH members were in contact with the admins of this site, where half of written fetish stories involved children and many depicted medical contexts. The same 'leaders' in trans treatment will also freely admit that if transition is done early enough, it severly hinders sexual function (orgasms etc) for their patients, pretty much preventing them from enjoying full intimacy. In fact, the drug used for puberty blocking (lupron) was shilled by a member of WPATH (Eli Coleman i think? Not sure) as a way to treat pedophiles by reducing their sex drive, before he entered the organization. He simply repurposed it for 'trans kids'. 'Trans science' is not a fixed, sure thing, moreso it's too steeped in a history of medical abuse and pandering to lobbyists/fetishists to be taken seriously.

No. 2042870

>>2042866
For most of human history you couldn't find a single scientist validating the idea that men could become women or vice versa, and you still won't find a single real honest biologist or geneticist who says that. The only "scientists" saying that are psychiatrists who profit off prescribing hormones to troons, surgeons who profit off of doing troon surgeries and occasionally social scientists who want to make a career out of talking about gender. I don't know where people got this idea that most science validates the idea of "true trans" I'd like to see where they're finding this science.

No. 2042880

>>2042784
I agree with both though. kekk

No. 2042885

>>2042870
NTA but i agree with you so hard. Real biologists and people who work with actual human beings know trans shit is bullshit. It's only psychiatrists, which is already considered a tsudo-science that try to validate this.

No. 2042895

>>2042885
Unfortunately real biologists are increasingly pressured to pay lip service to gender shit in their classes or on their social media where they otherwise post links to their actual published science, so I can forgive the scientifically illiterate/uneducated for believing that actual biologists or medical scientists believe 'true trans' is real because they're forced to give that impression otherwise they will be fired basically (as dumb as Jordan Peterson is this was actually the original reason for his firing even though he had tenure). If you actually read biology papers or what they sperg about related to their topics of interest though they talk about sex clearly and openly. I can only assume that the people who think 'science validates trans' don't actually engage with any science on anything beyond a total surface level.

No. 2042915

>>2042592
Honestly. When I was peaking I was on the fence when I was just ruminating by myself on the ethics of transitioning mentally ill people, but the minute I entered trans spaces and tried to befriend TIMS is what fully peaked me. They all just want to look like anime girls and Jack off to the thought of themselves being said anime girl. Listening to trans people and not terfs is what made me a terf, lmao.

No. 2042916

>>2042895
This. I’m wary on the “science” of transgenderism because they have so much money to make off of these people that I don’t trust a word they say. If their shit was effective, the suicide rate wouldn’t go up after transitioning. Their system is obviously flawed and it’s because trans people are their cash cow life long (even if their lives end quite early kek) cash cows they can milk for money. They don’t want to cure them they just want to keep their delusions alive, even if it means it kills them.

No. 2042934

>>2042915
You and most other women who met TIMs irl, nonna. Nothing like actually meeting and befriending TIMs irl to make you realize it's a bunch of bs and also is actually meant to feel threatening to you.

Before I had really peaked I had one of my first experiences with a male troon that was incredibly jarring because it was just a normal 6'2 male with a skaterboy aesthetic I sat next to at a party. We chatted about completely normal topics for a few minutes, he seemed nice and got my contact details to friend add me on fb or whatever. Then after maybe 15 minutes of talking I said something to someone else like 'he said bla bla' and this guy (admittedly not as aggressively as a lot of troons) whirled on me and was like 'he? I'm a she, my name is Susan' and I was in disbelief because what the fuck, he was doing nothing to indicate he wanted to be seen as female. But because of me being young and female socialization I spent the rest of the night feeling super guilty because how could I have missed the (nonexistent) signs and made this nice boy upset like this?

Then the problem was when he actually added me on fb all his posts were just the most weird, garbled philosophy screeds about the experience of being a GNC woman and weird complaints about people not seeing him as one and 'misgendering' him in public so I went from thinking 'oh it's a psychologically disturbed college boy' to just thinking he must be trolling or severely mentally ill or something. He kept messaging me trying to get me to hang out and I always made up an excuse because I didn't want to deal with it but at the time I assumed that was just one person and most troons aren't like that. Then I met more and more similar people and realized it's the norm, not the exception.

No. 2042980

>>2042934
Jesus Nona that sounds unsettling, the idea of a super tall skater boy going “ermmmmm ackshully I’m Susan” is making me kek.

My troon peaking story is juicy and will take too long to get all the details so I won’t blog. Basically a nerd I befriended in highschool over both liking LoL was a closeted troon, confessed his undying love after a week, I turned him down and ghosted him, then he proceeded to transition and skin walk me detail for detail.
>I had a super distinct hairstyle, long blue dyed hair with bangs
>suddenly he wears a long blue wig with the same bangs
>im on the girls volleyball team
>suddenly he’s taking volleyball classes his rich parents pay for
>im a vegan
>suddenly he’s a vegan
>I wear thick dr martens and band tees to school everyday with shorts
>he wears the exact same style of dr marten, same band shirts, and shorts to school
>im into painting and art
>suddenly he’s a hobby painter
>I play bass
>suddenly he bought himself a bass
>theres more but I won’t bore you, he basically copied every minute detail of my life
>mf is socially inept and still tried to pursue me, I’m polite and cordial bc I’m scared and keep my distance

After that he somehow found out where I worked via my friends and would proceed stalk me for 2 years. I had to get police involved on multiple occasions even though they didn’t do shit. Our handmaiden and ally friends obviously enabled this because I live in a retard troon central. To this day he still copies my style/hobbies from when I was 16. We’re both 19 now. Troons are all creepy coomers, the lot of them.

No. 2043043

>>2042105
AYRT, 'cause I liked Elizabeth Taylor.

No. 2043045

>>2042980
AYRT and I had a troon like that copy me in high school too, the one I'm talking about is from a little later in life though. I was friends with this autist in late elementary/middle school who changed schools because he was bullied but we still hung out at his house or my house after he changed schools. He was like a particularly retarded brand of autistic but my mom brought me up thinking that I'm supposed to be extra nice to bullied people and retards so I was always picking up these 'friends' and defending them from bullies. We bonded over liking the same car-racing video game and Redwall books (lol) as children but otherwise our hobbies and interests were not similar. He dressed like a normal boy around that age except for hating jeans because they triggered his autistic sensory issues, whatever.

Then around high school age we ended up in the same school but weren't in the same classes and barely interacted. I learned after 1-2 months of school that he told everyone I was his girlfriend but I just ignored it because there were other rumors circling around the school I was a lesbian rapist (unrelatedly) so I figured it wouldn't hurt me for someone to think I was straight and dating some weird autist I barely talked to. He didn't copy my current style in high school but he started copying my interests and style from back when we had been close in elementary school like down to the letter.
>I was really into fencing and medieval replica swords, he started bringing a medieval replica sword to school and posing with it
>I wore tripp pants and other goth style shit in elementary school, he started wearing the exact same tripp pants and tops
>I was into a specific TV show in elementary that he didn't like at the time, a comedy show, he started making jokes from that comedy show like 4-5 years later constantly
>I had a brief phase of playing piano a lot in elementary school, he started constantly sperging about how he's a piano player
>I got temporary blue streaks in my hair for a dance show around elementary school graduation, he dyed his hair my natural color and got the same colored streaks (but in permanent dye) in his hair

I'm surprised he didn't steal my name and skinwalk that too but it was so weird especially since it had nothing to do with my current style or interests, it was like this obsession with my aesthetic and interests 4-ish years earlier. I found it so weird but harmless at the time and didn't associate it with trans anything because he was such a severe autist I just thought it was an autism thing, but now that I'm older and have experienced more troons I'm like this is totally a troon thing, he probably fetishized the 10-11yo version of me because I was the one girl who was nice to him at that point in his life and turned it into a whole identity throughout high school and college.

Sorry, deleted my post to also add that his chosen 'girl name' was an anagram of my name with one letter added that had no letters in common with his own name. Both my name and his 'chosen' name are extremely uncommon and not from his original culture.

No. 2043051

>>2043045
Nona, we should make a support group. I also wore Tripp pants and that mf bought the exact same pair from the same website with stars on them, kek. He chose a name that sounds a lot but mine but also isn’t spelt the same, so he has plausible deniability but I know for a fact he chose it because it sounds like mine. My name is old lady sounding and Slavic, there’s no way he didn’t do that on purpose.

No. 2043065

>>2043051
Lol nonna same here it was not just tripp pants it was the exact same model of tripp pants. Same with the doc martens I had the cherry red ones from about 5th grade to college (my feet didn't grow that much) and he got the cherry red docs. I remember one time in high school he started asking me about some piano songs I had played when we were friends before and I was like 'oh I don't play piano anymore' but he kept being like 'we should practice piano together' (wtf? who practices piano together) and trying to give me piano books he was learning from and telling me to learn them too even though I told him we sold my keyboard. He also tried to sneakily befriend my ex-friends and even my ex-boyfriend in high school so I had to stop hanging out with the same people at lunch because he would always come sit with us and act like we were dating. I also remember my mom for fun had done like a really specific photoshoot of me with my replica sword in the tripp pants and the blue hair streaks and I had shown him the pictures, I noticed his profile picture on fb five years later was aping the exact same pose, outfit hair and makeup from that photoshoot with a styrofoam sword he made similar to my sword. Another weird detail was that I really loved climbing trees as a child and a lot of my social media pictures were old pictures of me as a kid in really tall trees, he changed his fb profile pic at some point to him climbing the exact same tree at the exact same location I had a photo of me climbing it as a kid.

No. 2043067

>>2042980
Holycrap, what a weirdo. Man who troon out and skinwalk women they like give me the heebi jeebis.

No. 2043128

>>2042980
>>2043045
>>2043065
I can't even convey my anger and disgust. Also wondered if skinwalking is partly developmental for autist troons (autistic girls do that) but the stalking and fixation on younger versions of women they're into really says everything. It's less about finding a rolemodel and more about 'capturing' and possessing an image or objects they once found arousing.
The most a-logging worthy thing is the support from handmaidens?? I really wonder if they ever felt an ounce of solidarity or even genuine friendship for a woman. Seriously, you need to at least confront them on this.

No. 2043224

>>2043128
I'm one of the AYRT and honestly at the time it didn't bother me that much because I really just assumed it was an autism thing, I also mostly didn't interact with this guy anymore so the reason I found out about most of this was mutual friends who still hung out with him sending me messages like 'omg did you see his new profile pic it looks exactly like your dance outfit from 5th grade' and they also told me some other details about stuff he was saying and doing that was skinwalking me that I don't remember much anymore. At the time though it just seemed like just turbo-autism things because I know autists struggle with social cues and frequently try to fit in/mask/conform/whatever by copying what other people they like do.

It took me being older and meeting more troons irl to realize that it's a pattern and specifically male troons will often fixate on younger versions of girls/women at the point that the girl was nice to them or they had a crush on her or whatever, then I looked back on the whole situation differently. At the time I was friends with this autist troon I didn't think he had a crush on me or anything but finding out later that it's often a psychosexual fixation made me feel really weird and put the whole 'lying that I'm his girlfriend' thing in perspective, I had initially assumed he did that because he was unpopular and I was more popular than him so he thought me dating him would give him social clout. I only realized later that it was probably some form of delusion/fixation on me and not just trying to namedrop the one person he knew in the school who was more socially adept than him. Of course looking back it's obvious that if he was just using me to get more popularity he would have skinwalked my current style at the time, not a past version, but I wasn't thinking about it in those terms back then.

Regarding handmaidens the aforementioned friends who mentioned his skinwalking to me did seem vaguely creeped out by it and some even told me they confronted him about it but he just pretended not to know what they were talking about. I think they were mostly similar to me, just trying to be nice to someone who was a little off and seeing it as basically harmless. Your average 14-16 year old girl isn't really capable of (or socialized to) understand where these creepy behaviors come from in moidlets, I noticed the same thing happening in that friend group with 'gay' moids who would sexually touch girls on the bus or in class or in the lunchroom, we all thought 'oh they're gay so it's just him being funny and subversive' only to realize a lot of these boys either weren't gay at all or were but got off on violating girls who were coddling them.

No. 2043458

I have a TIM cousin and my mom bought me and him the same pair of leggings (because she’s a “just be kind!” libfem who thinks he’s just a very gay man and doesn’t understand AGP) and the last time we hung out he wore those specific leggings. I wonder if he was trying to skinwalk me? If so that makes me feel uncomfortable.

No. 2043480

>>2043458
I would get this if they were plain black or something but otherwise I don't think I could get myself to wear them

I do wear the same mens wool thermal shirts as my mom, dad and several other family members though since when you find a high quality basic undergarment everyone wants it, but I would be freaked out by that if the leggings were more 'specific' also tell your mom not to do that anymore

No. 2043497

>>2042524
>(think Paris is Burning or the Danish Girl etc.)
You just basically redescribed HSTS and AGP. Yes, gay people trying to cope in society by living as the opposite sex or "in-between" and men having fetishes for womanhood has always existed.

>I look at being trans as something that happens to like, .01% of the population on Earth the same way intersex people exist. It's just a really rare thing that happens sometimes whether it's pushed by hormones or genetics idk. I really can't tell you what truly causes it the same way I can't tell you why homosexuality exists in humans.

Intersex is a medical disorder and not always a healthy thing to be, many conditions have health issues and it's not related to trans at all. Ironically, the quack who coined the concept of gender identity (John Money) mutilated intersex children to "look normal". There's theories that homosexuality and bisexuality is a result of prenatal stress or hormone exposure in the womb. What are the biomarkers for trans that isn't linked to homosexuality? Even if homosexuality wasn't inborn, there's no inherent harm to come from consensual and age-appropiate same-sex relationships. What is a "true trans" person?

>Sometimes I think though, that those people are only pretending to support trans people when really they just view them as gay men/women playing dress up and are playing along so as to not get outcasted.

Again, so close to getting it.

No. 2043531

File: 1717992404580.jpg (251.1 KB, 1920x1080, sYUc7rvRiuSkTBmfJnMYpGyp1HIeuJ…)

Anons, I need some advice on this. To give context this is more for a gay male friend I have who is totally gender critical and also supports women's rights so I know he's not some TRA misogynist. Anyway we were having a talk a few days and he confided in me how he just learned that his gay brother (they're both gay) totally reamed into him about how he doesn't approve of my friend speaking out against TIMs using women only restrooms pretty much arguing that "passing" TIMs should be able to use the women's restroom to which he argued against and eventually the brother told him that even though he acknowledges that he's a man, he wants to get breast implants and facial feminization surgery and that he wants my friend to address him by she/her pronouns after he gets this stuff done to himself for his own "safety". My friend said he would never support him using women's restrooms nor would he call him by those pronouns and in retaliation the brother said he would cut him out of his life if he can't support him doing these things for his "safety".

The thing that my friend doesn't understand is if his brother acknowledges that he's a gay man, why does he feel the need to get breast implants and FFS? According to my friend, his brother is like 6 feet tall, used to be a bodybuilder and even though he's stopped trying to be a bodybuilder, he still has a slightly big frame, and he thinks he's being ridiculous thinking that he's gonna look anything like a woman, aka "be passable". The thing that perplexed both of us was when we talked about autogynephilia. We were of the belief that only straight and bi men can have autogynephilia because gay men aren't attracted to women and so because of that, they wouldn't be getting off on the image of being a woman.
Some more context that my brother shared is that his brother is an on/off webcam model and when he started dressing more "feminine", he was dressing in slutty e-girl clothes (fishents, super skimpy clothing, making suggestive faces) and linking to his OnlyFans as well as using hashtags like "tgirl". It's clear that he fetishizes the pornographic image of a woman but is still 100% gay as according to my friend, he's never expressed any interest in a woman at all and is actually in a long-term relationship with his boyfriend (who doesn't seem to care that he's an e-whore) and we were just confused on whether this could count as autogynephilia. He did explain that his brother was always a bit of an attention whore but can what he's doing be considered AGP if he's getting off on the male attention instead of himself?

I care about my friend, he's a good person who actually listens when I talk about radical feminist topics and he really tries his best to understand it and we end up having great talks (he also always comes to my aid when I'm getting dog-piled by TRAs) but he doesn't know how to feel about this issue and doesn't know if he should drop his brother since he's the only family that he has left.

I told him that I think he needs to think long and hard about this. Personally I would tell him to drop him but I feel like it's only because that's not my sibling and I'm an only child. I guess my question is

1) Is my friend's brother an AGP? Can gay men be AGPs?
2) If you had a male sibling who was acting like this, what would you do? Would you drop them?

No. 2043537

>>2043531
Nonna I think this sounds like pretty par for the course HSTS behavior, we have this image of HSTS troons that they are always 'self hating' gays but a lot of people who are generally considered HSTS (like Blaire White, Nikita Dragun) do get off on the feminine presentation, like you said, because of the way other moids react to it. Even just regular male drag queens obviously fetishize aspects of 'femininity' and the female body in a way where I don't think they're attracted to themselves as women but they are attracted to the way femininity and female body features are fetishized and want to be seen that way themselves. The erotic object isn't them, themselves as it is in AGP but the way they get off on feeling fetishized by other moids. This is also taboo to talk about but a lot of gay men really crave attention from straight moids the way a lot of AGPs really crave attention from lesbian women and that's part of the whole 'trap' or 'femboy' fantasy.

I can't speak to the other part of your comment because I don't have male siblings and idk what your brother should do about his family member but this guy sounds insufferable in many ways and it also sounds like he's self-harming with his e-whoring, I could understand your friend being concerned about him but I don't think just pandering to the delusions and self-harm of your family members is good for them. Could he be honest with his brother that he finds his behavior insulting to women and harmful without completely cutting him off? Maybe his brother needs to hear what he thinks about it.

No. 2043597

File: 1717997439654.jpg (70.41 KB, 474x710, Stevie Nicks.jpg)

>>2043537
You know you raise a good point, I guess during our talk we forgot that HSTS do crave and get off on male attention. My friend did mention that his brother is really into plastic surgery culture he had to try talking him out of trying to get a BBL saying that it wasn't worth it and that he already has a big ass anyway because that's literally the part of his body he tended to workout a lot so he (my friend) didn't understand why he felt the need to get an even bigger ass (I know, it's weird). Taking what you said and what my friend said, it's just so clear that his brother is obsessed with male attention which speaking of which

> This is also taboo to talk about but a lot of gay men really crave attention from straight moids the way a lot of AGPs really crave attention from lesbian women and that's part of the whole 'trap' or 'femboy' fantasy.

My friend actually did mention that his brother is obsessed with masculine men and by extension was obsessed with straight men (and sounds like he still is even though he's in a relationship with a man who is not "straight passing"). One thing that they had an argument over years back was that my friend's brother said that there are men who can engage in gay sex and still be straight, especially if the straight" guy is having sex with a feminine presenting man to which my friend vehemently disagreed and said that the guy is no longer straight if he's sexually engaging with another man regardless of what that man looks like and that it was just a closet case bisexual. This just caused his brother to get super annoyed and they just agreed to disagree. And clearly the brother might feel this way still with how he's rpresenting himself as some "tgirl" camwhore.
Something I wanna add, my friend is a feminine presenting guy himself but he does not dress in an overly sexualized way at all, it's actually a very bohemian, slightly Stevie Nicks inspired look (I just mention this to say that he doesn't present himself in a sexualized manner unlike what his brother seems to do).

>what your friend should do about his family member but this guy sounds insufferable in many ways and it also sounds like he's self-harming with his e-whorin

He really does, the way that my friend describes him sounds like his brother is a raving narcissist and from what he shares, he used to treat him (my friend) like crap since the brother was more extroverted and popular while my friend is more introverted and "weird" (mainly because of his gender nonconforming appearance that he's been doing long before his brother started dressing "feminine" - i.e camwhore). But yet they had been through a lot of facing homophobia from their parents and I think perhaps this is why he feels somewhat bonded to him since that was the thing that brought them together during their time in high school.

>Could he be honest with his brother that he finds his behavior insulting to women and harmful without completely cutting him off? Maybe his brother needs to hear what he thinks about it.

See now this is the other thing. According to my friend, he has tried to explain to him how trans ideology is misogynistic and has tried getting him to watch things like Magdalen Berns videos and has tried to explain to him about misogyny but he always shuts him down. For example, when my friend tried to explain to him why no man should be allowed access to our restrooms, he told him that there aren't TIMs attacking women in their spaces to which my friend tried to link him to articles of women whom were attacked by TIMs and the brother said that it's just selection bias and that those TIMs weren't "true trans" because they don't "pass" which he (my friend) tried to explain how self-ID works and how it's playing a part in what's happening to which the brother just didn't seem to understand nor care and simply said that it's all just internet stuff, not "real life" (because where they live, there have been no reports of women being assaulted by TIMs in restrooms, therefor as far as he's concerned it doesn't matter).

A big problem is that his brother is friends with a lot of handmaidens who blindly encourage TIMs. Like for example, his female friends don't care if "passing" TIMs use the women's restrooms or how they don't mind TIMs wanting to be women (I'm sure it's the "live and let live" thing). So the brother really doesn't engage with gender critical much (if at all) and my friend is the only GC person he talks with but the dilemma comes where whenever my friend tries to advise him to check out GC creators or articles of TIMs being horrible to women, he seems to refuse to look into them and calls it "internet stuff, not real life".

Another thing I should mention is that the brother is also huge into online gaming (Overwatch & Fortnite especially which I'm sure we all know is dominated by Troons) and has made friends with TIMs and when they were having the talk about the bathroom thing, he said that he knows TIMs who are "normal" and aren't trying to assault women which then goes into how he doesn't understand how my friend can still say that no man should be using women's spaces with no exception.

I think the issue here with my friend is that there really aren't a lot of gender critical gay men who are also pro-women's rights all the way. My friend engages with radical feminism and has learned a lot about female socialization and he's been honestly so good with understanding certain things like how makeup is pushed onto women and how a lot of violence is perpetuated by men and that he can be just fine when he hears radfems making generalizations of men as a class and not get bothered by it. I've honestly never met any other gay man like this and I feel like this is probably why he's in a position like this because it feels like a lot of gay men don't tend to really care about women's rights outside of the surface level libfem statements.

No. 2043630

File: 1717999538114.png (443.98 KB, 820x1024, Owen_Jones_2021.png)

Do any britbong nonnas know what picrel's deal is? What would motivate a moid to cape so hard for troons if he wasn't even attracted to them?

No. 2043633

>>2043630
I'm not sure who this is but my guess is maybe he's fucking them on the DL?

No. 2043684

>>2043630
Don't know who the fuck that is BUT don't underestimate just how deep women are into being TRA/handmaidens - and how that in turn makes men adopt it so they can fuck those women. They'll totally say "yeah men in skirts are women too, I'd totally fuck a gaping wound from an inverted penis" while they then go on to date real women, never having to actually touch a troon. Once they're in a relationship they can double down on troon-praise as they don't risk having to sleep with them because they're already taken and the girlfriend gets to feel virtuous by having chosen "one of the good guys" to display in public. (Similarly I mostly see gays in long time relationships cape for troons hard because they never have to face actually sleeping with one).

No. 2043685

>>2043531
>Can gay men be AGPs?
Yes, Dylan Mulvaney is a prime example of it.

No. 2043688

>>2043684
Fucking this. It's all a bunch of self-congratulatory bullshit. I mean I think that some of these men actually do hook up with TIMs on the DL but there's also guys like you said who will say anything to be seen as a "good guy" and get attention from vapid TRA/Handmaiden women who will come flocking to them. >>2043684

No. 2043696

>>2042980
Make sure to save screenshots/pics of him in outfits and looks that are directly copied from you, and hobbies etc. Make an album on your phone with all the proof so you can easily pull it up. Tell everyone in your life about him, do not call him trans or skinwalker initially but call him the more appropriate term "stalker". Make it into a thing with new people you meet, like "sorry but I have to inform you for safety reasons, so I have a stalker…". Tell them how he copies everything you do, that you're scared of him and he's clearly mentally ill. If they see him, please tell you about it so you can stay safe. Ask them to stay away from him and make sure he doesn't talk to any other young females. Make sure everyone knows he's a creep and you're a victim.

If you have any friends on your side, get them to help troll him online if possible. Say you looove shaved heads on women, they look so cool! If you're able (and you know he won't see you irl) post an edited pic of you with shaved hair, or a pixie cut. Post that you're really into something stupid and expensive, post as if you've bought it and see if you can make him waste his money on it.

No. 2043698

>>2042895
Man those cowards are partly resonsible for children getting mutilated. Spreading misinformation as a scientist is what should get them fired! I get that they want to keep their jobs, but at what cost? Did they get the job to spead lies and anti-science, do they really wanna keep it if that's what they have to do now?

No. 2043700

File: 1718005160397.png (1.05 MB, 1246x1126, dating while trans.png)

>>2043688
>I mean I think that some of these men actually do hook up with TIMs on the DL
They're FAR fewer than troons want you to think. They like the idea that they can have any straight man because it validates their troon fetish but in reality very few men, even the wokest ones, would sleep with them. There's a small minority of bi men who will though, especially if they're homophobic about it and pretend to be straight.

No. 2043723

>>2043700
That does make sense since at the end of the day gay men are still a minority and actual straight men would not give these troons the time of day even if they looked "passable". I was mostly referring to the minority of bi men but again I think you're right that they really aren't as a common as these troons make it out to be. If you have to write articles like the one you posted that's essentially trying to shame men for not being into them, that pretty much says it all.

No. 2043796

File: 1718018697838.jpg (338.86 KB, 1080x1723, Screenshot_20240610_123905_Chr…)

Everyday we stray further from God.

No. 2043802

>>2043796
I might just throw up at “her testicles”

No. 2043850

File: 1718022212047.jpg (322.69 KB, 2013x1125, more like baby wendigo wtf.jpg)

>>2043630
I was trying to figure out who this guy was reminding me of…then it hit me.
Closeted chaser phenotype? Makes sense. Basically bi guy vibes but more anemic and sad. Patchy facial hair. No life behind the eyes.
Feel bad for the guy for getting stalked and raped, but idk…something felt off about him. Not even just in a troon hate way. I actually felt bad for that character. Richard treated him terribly and just spent the whole time feeling sorry for himself for endangering people close to him. Fiona’s obviously nuts, but this guy’s def got some Cluster B tendencies as well. Idk something about this particular brand of dude is so insidious. They’re not immediately threatening because of their frail bodies and sad eyes but the more time you spend observing them, the more you feel something is off. And despite their vulnerable appearing exterior, they so often have really fucked up sexual proclivities.
I guess it’s not a completely universal look though since chasers can be fat too (looking at you Chube and Vaush)

No. 2043865

>>2043850
Pale and anemic because they spend lots of time inside looking at porn

No. 2043883

>>2043850
the tranny was right when he said richard never saw him as anything but a man. he may have called him "my girlfriend" but he acted differently with him than he did with the woman he lived with previously (although he treated her poorly too). it was obvious the only purpose he served in richard's life was to house him and be an emotional outlet for all his drama. he was having sex with all kinds of strange men but and women yet couldn't manage to get it up for him.

No. 2043895

>>2042150
>cannot fully embrace her femininity
I dunno about this phrasing anon, the concepts of femininity and masculinity are just hallmarks of gender ideology as far as I see it, it's just existed for longer than the current terminology.
>a way to rebel (IIRC she even had mommy issues)
I always find the idea of "teenage rebellion" so funny. It's always aligning yourself with a culture, particularly a majority youth culture, rather than actually going any sort of individualistic route, and gender ideology seems to be a prime example of this. It's not really anything to do with forming an individual identity or finding oneself, just a natural distancing from the culture of the parent and joining a culture of teenagers/young adults. It's why these subcultures are always rigidly conformist amongst its members, the idea of "posers" among previous alt cultures and an abhorrence of being "problematic" in the current one. Nothing really rebellious about it, just switching allegiances.

No. 2043905

>>2043597
Yeah I know some people will say this is 'gay AGP' and I don't think they're necessarily wrong but I think that wanting to call this type of behavior gay AGP just comes from a place of women wanting to think HSTS are 'innocent' or 'the good ones' and forgetting that a lot of gay culture shit like drag and even old fashioned 'trans women' who were gay pretty much revolves around playing up misogynistic stereotypes while trying to bait and fish for straight male attention. I guess you can call this gay male AGP but it's such a common subtype of gay male troons that in fact I think it's more common than the 'just don't want homophobic parents to be mean to them so they transition' type. Look at how many HSTS have plastic surgery obsessions and get BBLs, implants, lip fillers, etc. You would think Blaire White was 'AGP' watching his videos where he constantly eyefucks himself on the screen preview and jiggles his chest in front of the camera but I think it's just a very extreme form of sexual signaling. If you've seen the Nikita Dragun arrest video he drops the act as soon as he's in a cell alone with a female cop, but keeps it up the whole time he's flirting with the male cop who initially arrests him.

>it feels like a lot of gay men don't tend to really care about women's rights outside of the surface level

Your friend is right about that, most gay men don't. Most men don't, period. Part of the initial push for women to 'accept' HSTS is the delusional belief that is pushed on 'nice' libfem women that gay men are somehow inherently different than other men and that they're truly more like women but they're usually not. I don't know what I would do in your friend's position, it's always tough when you have a family member that was there for you when you were both going through something difficult like family homophobia, and I don't know enough about his brother to know if he is truly a lost cause or not, but it doesn't seem like him constantly trying to convince his brother is working very well. Maybe he should just say his piece and then go low contact or just set a boundary and say he doesn't want to talk about/hear about his brother's degeneracy, but they can talk about other things. Hard to give advice literally fourthhand but the reality is that you can't ever really convince someone of something they're not ready to/don't want to hear.

No. 2043907

>>2043698
I tend to agree that they are partly responsible, although the type of scientist I'm talking about rarely does more than the occasional (one or two disclaimers in a class, bimonthly virtue signal on twitter) virtue signal so they're not the main drivers of 'trans science.' I think many people think it's worth it to do something they don't agree with or stay silent to keep their jobs, especially when the job is one that took decades of hard work to get and you know you'll be blacklisted in the industry if you ever lose that job. Most of these people probably cope by telling themselves they'll only be able to continue doing valuable medical research to help people if they occasionally say 'but gender and sex are different' or whatever and don't think about it much beyond that.

No. 2043910

>>2043876
Yeah all third genders (for men) that I'm aware of historically were just a way to give gay men and sex pests a 'separate role' in society from normal men, and the one type of women's third gender I know of (sworn virgins) was basically this but for celibate (not necessarily lesbian) women who didn't want children, basically like a type of more masculinized nun.

No. 2043913

>>2043905
Seconding this. >>2043531 I have relatives who are transgender, relatives who are addicted to drugs, and relatives who are in and out of jail because they keep committing crimes like burglary, and unfortunately it’s often impossible to get someone to change their behavior or listen to reason if they don’t want to. For a lot of people who are addicted to something (like hard drugs or transitioning (in your friend’s case it’s the high that his brother gets from dressing sexy and getting attention from men)) they can’t be forced into quitting or seeing the light, they’ll only decide they want to quit when they hit rock bottom, and even then they might relapse afterwards.

No. 2043951

>>2043531
Looks like the subtype of gay moid who's obsessed with straight men (also the most likely to troon out, alongside hyperfem gays who get bullied by everyone including other gays). The fact that he wanted a BBL and is a bodybuilder suggests he's really gay and not AGP. There are a few gay men who wander in 'femboy' territory even though it's AGP central because they're not super feminine but still crave straight male attention, so they follow the thigh highs-choker recipe. You also have to factor in age, gay men resort to all kinds of self-desctructive habits to stay 'hot' after they enter their mid-twenties (plastic surgery addiction being one of those).
A meta-attracted AGP might really resemble his brother superficially but if you get closer it's mostly autosexual or directed at women they skinwalk, and they tend to pick masculine men instead of the visibly gay bf you mentioned (though HSTS do that aswell).
'Gay AGP' makes no sense imo, a gay man who LARPs as a camwhore with a specific kind of man in mind that he's attracted to is very different from an AGP. Their crossdressing is a sexual strategy and much less pathological than AGP, even if they act retarded in the process. They aren't uncanny and creepy, only annoying and insulting.
>If you had a male sibling who was acting like this, what would you do? Would you drop them?
I wouldn't because i relate to the 'bonded over shared struggle and parental abuse' thing and i value siblinghood. I would probably have a rule of not discussing this crap (since it tends to override everything else) while staying around in case it goes south and he needs to be talked out of a stupid impulse. I feel bad for your friend because it's quite a dilemma, even if you take into account the fact that his brother treated him like crap. The fact that they're both men probably adds to their bond, if it was a woman with a HSTS brother i'd tell her to be blunt and act on her discomfort.

No. 2043977

>>2043951
>'Gay AGP' makes no sense imo
I agree with this but I think the reason a lot of GC women started talking about 'gay AGP' with examples like Dylan Mulvaney is just because they're still operating under the assumption that HSTS are the 'nice' kind of troon who really empathize with and feel solidarity with women, so they find it hard to accept that many HSTS are just as fetishistic and creepy about women and femininity just for different reasons. It's not autoerotic but it still eroticizes the feminine 'submissive' role and everything that's associated with that. Also realistically speaking AGP males almost never put much effort into actually looking 'like women' or even looking remotely attractive for that matter, since it's about a fantasy for them and the fantasy has very little to do with how they actually look to others.

Another way of putting it is that the typical AGP scrote will try to superficially skinwalk the woman or girl he couldn't have and was sexually hyperfixated on, while the typical HSTS (of this variety) will try to skinwalk the woman or girl who 'got' the guy he was sexually hyperfixated on.

No. 2044031

Some serous ops are happening. Tons of Instagram accounts are getting deleted under the blanket criteria of posting for likes. Some tranny sent libsoftiktok hunter schafer’s diagram pretending it was Audrey hale’s secret manifesto and now his reputation is getting laundered and and a dead ftm is getting the blame. Every single tranny and handmaiden in both coasts in entertainment filled up jorden jensen’s comments on Instagram because not enough people came out for her, not even the rogan universe or cumtown edge lords. This thread and the mtf thread on snow is dividing visibility in a divide and conquer move.

No. 2044035

>>2044031
What do you mean 'dividing visibility in a divide and conquer move'?

No. 2044048

>>2043977
I see. Yeah i hate this kind of GC cope. I think they're afraid of accurately describing gay men because they already hold controversial opinions (at least, in the eyes of establishment). There's so much naivete and discomfort around the fact that old geezers in petticoats aren't the only misogynists. It lets them ignore the fact that boomers and Gen X collectively failed at shielding boys from internet porn and now have to deal with the consequences. To be fair no one could imagine how destructive internet access would become, but there must be a pang of guilt somewhere.
>while the typical HSTS (of this variety) will try to skinwalk the woman or girl who 'got' the guy he was sexually hyperfixated on.
Exactly, so much of gay culture at large can be explained by this phenomenon (like their fixation on famous attractive women).

No. 2044057

>>2044048
Yeah for one thing a lot of GC women are always fielding accusations that they're 'secretly' trad/conservative so performatively adoring gay men is one way to disprove those allegations. Also a lot of older radfem/second wave GC feminists are lesbians who used to hang out with gay men at events and bars when they were younger so they feel a lot of affinity for gay men, will often defend drag and claim it's a campy art form but not fetishistic, so again I think they don't like to admit to themselves that gay men are capable of fetishizing womanface and feminine stereotypes.

In my experience even relatively normie HSTS men who mostly pass as normal women (like the type who have had surgeries but mostly just wear jeans and tees, no bimboification type PS) will still do milder versions of the things that Mulvaney, Blaire White or Nikita Dragun types do - I knew a normie/mostly passing HSTS who had small estrogen 'boobs' and no filler or anything but he still would jiggle his chest and play with his hair in that Blaire White way, stare at himself in mirrors and adjust his posture constantly to look more feminine and obviously ape what the women around him were doing in a very skinwalky way. It's just a matter of degree.

No. 2044076

First time posting after a long period of lurking, hope i get this right lol.
In the first thread someone asked for podcast recommendations and someone mentioned Gender: a Wider Lense. I've been binge listening to them for a bit now and it's such an amazing resource. Especially the early peaking nonas from this and previous thread should give them a listen! (but I've gotten a lot out of their stuff as a longer time radfem adjacent feminist too)

No. 2044106

>>2043905
AYRT and after reading a few other comments, I've come to the conclusion that it isn't really AGP and it's just a case of vanity-fueled narcissism to sexually signal to men. Because at the end of the day, not many (if any) AGPs put all that work into trying to look like a (sexualized) woman like HSTS tend to do but yet HSTS aren't typically attracted to other HSTS or sane feminine gay men who don't think they're trans, they usually are super obsessed with masculine men and are in a way trying to turn straight men gay. Like I mentioned, my friend's brother said that he was obsessed with straight men to the point that he felt that they can have gay sex and still be "Straight" and that even though he is in a LTR with a man who while has a soft-masculine look, he has a rather "gay" demeanor talking with a slight affectation to his voice. My friends says that they're monogamous but he feels like his brother may not be fully satisfied with his BF and it's why he does the e-whoring and flirts with DL men who make passing comments at him IRL. And because this whole "femboy" "transgirl" stuff is the next big thing that coomers are flocking to, it could be just another tactic to gain male attention.
And right, in their case it's not really about trying to escape family homophobia because according to my friend, their parents did eventually come around when they were in their early 20s (for context, we're all in our early 30s), their parents even accepted him when he got his BF so it makes it even more telling that this obsession with the bimbo/camwhore/slutty e-girl thing his brother is on is purely about attention whoring.

>Your friend is right about that, most gay men don't. Most men don't, period. Part of the initial push for women to 'accept' HSTS is the delusional belief that is pushed on 'nice' libfem women that gay men are somehow inherently different than other men and that they're truly more like women but they're usually not. I don't know what I would do in your friend's position, it's always tough when you have a family member that was there for you when you were both going through something difficult like family homophobia, and I don't know enough about his brother to know if he is truly a lost cause or not, but it doesn't seem like him constantly trying to convince his brother is working very well. Maybe he should just say his piece and then go low contact or just set a boundary and say he doesn't want to talk about/hear about his brother's degeneracy, but they can talk about other things. Hard to give advice literally fourthhand but the reality is that you can't ever really convince someone of something they're not ready to/don't want to hear.

Right and that's the dilemma. Because most gay men don't really look into radical feminism. My friend mentioned that whenever he would bring up radical feminist talking points like how surrogate mothering is essentially renting out women's bodies or how "Karen" is actually a misogynistic insult since there's no male equivalent of the word (and that when a man is acting up, it's not seen as problematic) in gay forum spaces, he'd get called things like crazy or "extremist". And like I've said, at most the gay men I have run who claim to support feminism are the ones who support libfem, sex work is empowering and dressing like a prostitute is confident and body positive type of thing and plastic surgery is totally fine if you're doing it for yourself (the brother is a huge plastic surgery addict in the sense that he finds it fascinating and how he wants to get procedures like FFS, filler, the boobs, and the BBL). My friend said he used to be that way too (not the plastic surgery stuff but the "sex work is empowering" thing) until he took the "radical pill" (term we joke about) and he started hearing and understanding radical feminist analysis and even if he didn't always agree like for example, he thinks that makeup should be a choice but he does feel that women who decide to not wear makeup should not be shamed or mocked for that choice, he at the very least understands the arguments.

>I don't know enough about his brother to know if he is truly a lost cause or not, but it doesn't seem like him constantly trying to convince his brother is working very well. Maybe he should just say his piece and then go low contact or just set a boundary and say he doesn't want to talk about/hear about his brother's degeneracy, but they can talk about other things. Hard to give advice literally fourthhand but the reality is that you can't ever really convince someone of something they're not ready to/don't want to hear.

Yeah I talked with my friend the earlier today and he gave me a little update. He said that he told his brother that while he won't support him using women only spaces and will not call him she/her pronouns, he said that if he really wants to get the double d breast implants and FFs, while he won't applaud his decision, it's his body, money, and choice. But he also does not want to talk about trans issues with him anymore since they'll never agree on it (he said that his brother just isn't ready to have these conversations since he refuses to see the other side not taking the women who do mind's feelings into consideration and getting caught up in male entitlement, the entitlement that vulnerable insecure men's safety means much more than a woman's discomfort in our spaces).
He did try to tell his brother that he thinks that he doesn't realize that he's doing all this over-sexualization stuff to get male attention to which it did piss him off a bit and he doubled down saying that it's how he really wants to look and it's not about "attention" (which my friend still calls bullshit on but he bit his tongue and just left it alone).
Ultimately though, the brother said that when the time comes, he'll probably have to cut my friend out of his life since he didn't agree to his demands. He assured my friend that he doesn't actually think he's a woman but he thinks he's an asshole who doesn't really care about him if he won't do what he wants him to do (via call him by what he wants to be called) when his boyfriend and his (handmaid) and TRA friends are already willing to do that for him so he thinks it's fucked up that his brother (my friend) is not going along with it (pretty much just sibling guilt it seems like).

My friend told him that they can talk about other things but just not to bring up trans topics because he will refuse to engage in it which did annoy the brother because something I forgot to mention was that whenever my friend and the brother had these debates/arguments, my friend would get very aggravated and upset which the brother would say something like "I don't know why you're getting so angry, I'm talking calm and challenging your argument yet you're the one getting mad" but the reason why my friend was getting so upset was because anytime he tried to provide evidence to back up his claims (the linking to articles of TIM on women assaults in restrooms, the Tavistock Clinic, De-trans testimonies, Ray Blanchard's AGP & HSTS publish, etc), the brother would either brush it off, say it's just "internet stuff, real life is not the internet"), "Not all Trans", and/or "The women I know don't care about this stuff so therefor it's irrelevant". Pretty much just refusing to even think about these things yet he thinks he's the one being a "critical thinker" and the friend is an angry person ruled by emotions.

I get that my friend should try to keep his cool when talking about this stuff but after hearing all that, I can understand why he can get super frustrated when he's getting his rebuttals invalidated and the brother is refusing to understand the bigger picture of how this stuff affects women rights.

No. 2044107

>>2044076
Radical Ramblings on YouTube does some livestreams from time to time and she brings on other radfem guests and they go over articles and have discussions and it's pretty good background noise.

No. 2044114

>>2043913
Understandable, my friend's brother just seems to be porn obsessed, a gay coomer who is fetishizing the pornofied stereotype of a woman and using that image to get male attention and gets a high off of it. He'd deny it but that's really what it seems because why would a gay man feel the need to get breast implants and it not be fueled by some sort of fetish?
>I have relatives who are transgender
Do you call these relatives by their preferred pronouns? Do they know of your stance against gender ideology?

No. 2044119

>>2044106
The one HSTS I was acquainted with for a long time wasn't even the hypersexualized hyperfeminine variety of HSTS but he was completely obsessed with pulling straight men. They didn't even need to be attractive but if they were straight and especially if they had girlfriends in our social circle or hit on girls in our social circle the HSTS would do everything in his power to 'steal' them and seem more attractive than the women they were attracted to. Interestingly I also know normal non-troon gay men who did the same thing, except rather than pretending to be women they would talk about how they could 'turn' straight men and would develop close relationships with the straight men they liked and then go in to 'comfort' them after breakups or rejections similar to the stereotype of what Nice Guys do to women. Similar to your friend's brother these men often were dating other gay men at the time they were doing this, it never seemed to stop them from hitting on straight moids.

>he thinks he's an asshole who doesn't really care about him if he won't do what he wants him to do (via call him by what he wants to be called) when his boyfriend and his (handmaid) and TRA friends are already willing to do that for him

I know your friend can't change his brother's mind but I would point out to him that it's fucked up his brother demands he be totally understanding and go along with everything he (the brother) wants, while not respecting your friend's wishes and boundaries. Relationships go two ways and if someone is always demanding that their friends or family validate all their delusions and do whatever they want them to do but never show the same courtesy back, it's not an equal and respectful relationship. Imagine if you have a religious family member who knows you're not religious, a very common issue in families - if they are mutually respectful they are able to occasionally talk to each other about their respective religious beliefs or even try to convince the other that they're wrong, without constantly trying to convert their family member or demanding that their family member 'pretend' to be religious around them. I have devout christian family members who know I'm not religious and I let them talk about their religious beliefs around me, but I don't pretend to agree with them or believe what they believe, and it's fine. I also agree not to constantly insult their religion and 'blaspheme' around them because I think it's rude, but if they started demanding I pray around them that would be a different story. Your friend's brother is acting like he's part of a religious cult and the only acceptable behavior for his family members is to pretend to be in the cult and participate in the cult rituals too.

No. 2044125

>>2043951
For sure anon. It's fascinating really. My friend and his brother both being gay and feminine but my friend's take on femininity is more creative and modest while his brother is more overly sexualized. My friend has also been dressing the way he has since he was in his mid-20s while the brother started doing this thing in his very late 20s.

>You also have to factor in age, gay men resort to all kinds of self-desctructive habits to stay 'hot' after they enter their mid-twenties (plastic surgery addiction being one of those).

This seems to be true to a degree. Like I mentioned in another comment, we're all in our early 30s. My friend mentioned how his brother seems very preoccupied with his appearance even before he started doing this troon stuff like caring about wrinkles and constantly asking my friend how he looks and like I mentioned earlier, being very into plastic surgery culture, he idolizes Kim Kardashian's body much to my friend's annoyance who had to remind him back when they were in high school (the brother was really into Keeping up with the Kardashians) that her body was fake. And even when he got into bodybuilding and got close to 200 pounds of muscle, he still didn't feel "big enough" (so body dysmorphia). It's interesting to say the least.

>I wouldn't because i relate to the 'bonded over shared struggle and parental abuse' thing and i value siblinghood. I would probably have a rule of not discussing this crap (since it tends to override everything else) while staying around in case it goes south and he needs to be talked out of a stupid impulse. I feel bad for your friend because it's quite a dilemma, even if you take into account the fact that his brother treated him like crap. The fact that they're both men probably adds to their bond, if it was a woman with a HSTS brother i'd tell her to be blunt and act on her discomfort.

I see. Would you refer to your hypothetical HSTS brother by she/her pronouns and be okay with him using women only spaces?

No. 2044129

>>2043977
>hile the typical HSTS (of this variety) will try to skinwalk the woman or girl who 'got' the guy he was sexually hyperfixated on.
Yeah in my friend's brother's case, he's not really trying to skinwalk as a specific person, more like a specific "kind" of woman which is the slutty altgirl, e-girl OnlyFans model type.

No. 2044130

>>2044119
Ntayrt, but I always see HSTS try their best to hit on a straight man for some reason, I think it's because of the masculinity that straight men emanate. They are the most pressed about the men who are into them and aren't remotely bi/pan but absolutely insist that they're "straight" for some reason. Sure hun, you can't unsuck a dick fyi.

No. 2044144

>>2044130
I actually think it's pretty normal that many lesbian women are attracted to straight women and many gay men are attracted to straight men. Being gay means you're attracted to the opposite sex, it doesn't mean you're attracted only to people of the opposite sex who are also attracted to you. Gay men and lesbians aren't a different species who can only be attracted to each other. There are also way more 'options' to be attracted to among straight people since like 98-99% of people are straight, so it's not that surprising that these attractions are common. In your high school there were probably idk let's say 10 boys that were considered the hottest and 100+ girls were attracted to the same 10 boys and vice versa, gay people are not always exempt from this but over time gay people often learn to spot the signs someone is a potential viable partner and stick to developing crushes on those people only. HSTS men fixating on straight men is basically just a way to go into denial about who your viable sexual partners are, this is more common with gay men than gay women simply because women are far less likely to want to cross boundaries or coerce people into sex who don't want it.

No. 2044148

>>2044130
OP anon with the friend here. You're actually correct. My friend has talked about this and he says that it's not so much that the man is straight that makes these gay men pine for them, it's purely just the masculinity that a lot of straight men exhibit which is developed from male socialization that they got by being able to meld into heternorrmativity, something that not a lot of gay men tend to conceptualize since they aren't attracted to the opposite sex and therefor don't feel the need to follow heteronormativity socialization during their formulative years. But because these gay men in their youths are still around the majority of other boys/men who are straight and do tend conform to heteronormativity, they in turn like their female friends develop a likeness for masculinity in men.
From what my friend said, he says that the only kind of gay men who tend to adopt the super masculine demeanor tend to be the ones who grow up in less progressive places but even then, there can be cracks where they may have an interest that is feminine but they wouldn't want to admit it. That or some gay men who are more feminine leaning try to fake a masculine persona. My friend's brother actually did this in his early 20s and it was one of the reasons why he got into bodybuulding to create that masculine image but deep down he was pretty flamboyant (he used to be one of those catty gays in high school from what my friend shared).

Anyway, yeah there are definitely some gay men (both sane and/or HSTS) who get off on the idea of stealing a straight man from a woman and because bisexual DL men do tend to pull this stunt where they'll get with a woman but hook up with guys on the side (my friend would show me screenshots of DL married guys on Grindr) and they play into the delusion of the gay men thinking that they're totally straight.

No. 2044165

>>2044119
>The one HSTS I was acquainted with for a long time wasn't even the hypersexualized hyperfeminine variety of HSTS but he was completely obsessed with pulling straight men. They didn't even need to be attractive but if they were straight and especially if they had girlfriends in our social circle or hit on girls in our social circle the HSTS would do everything in his power to 'steal' them and seem more attractive than the women they were attracted to. Interestingly I also know normal non-troon gay men who did the same thing, except rather than pretending to be women they would talk about how they could 'turn' straight men and would develop close relationships with the straight men they liked and then go in to 'comfort' them after breakups or rejections similar to the stereotype of what Nice Guys do to women. Similar to your friend's brother these men often were dating other gay men at the time they were doing this, it never seemed to stop them from hitting on straight moids.
That all certainly makes sense from what my friend said, the obsession with pulling straight men and again, I'm pretty the underlying thing is they are attracted to the masculinity that not a lot of gay men tend to develop. And because there are a lot of DL bisexual men who hookup with men on the side and call themselves "str8", this fuels the belief to the gullible HSTS/Gay men that it's totally possible to sleep with straight men.

>I know your friend can't change his brother's mind but I would point out to him that it's fucked up his brother demands he be totally understanding and go along with everything he (the brother) wants, while not respecting your friend's wishes and boundaries. Relationships go two ways and if someone is always demanding that their friends or family validate all their delusions and do whatever they want them to do but never show the same courtesy back, it's not an equal and respectful relationship.

Oh I pointed that out (though worded differently) to him and he agreed. He said that he already can look past the (ridiculous) want of getting the surgeries and altering his appearance and that should be the half-way meeting point but his brother is just too fucking paranoid thinking that once he does this stuff to himself, he's gonna face a lot of people (men) trying to physically assault him. He already has issues with caring about what other people think of him which is why he was so nasty to his alternative presenting brother (my friend) when they were younger who had already gotten used to people staring at him for being a feminine presenting man and never mind the fact that the brother is a tall man who looks to weigh about 170-180 pounds but he thinks he looks like a dainty uwu little waif that can't defend himself. And he thinks that once he gets FFS, he's gonna look "passable" (gonna be real here, even though he wears makeup he still looks manly, at least in the sense that I don't think many people would mistake him for a woman). My friend has shared that all through his own life presenting as he does, while he does get stared at (which he says staring is not violence which it isn't), he's never actually got physically assaulted and at most, he almost got into a fight by a guy who mistook him as a woman and got all super defensive and threatened to hit him but they were in a crowded area and he ended up not doing anything except yelling. My friend weighs a lot less than his brother and isn't as tall but yet he manages to get through life just fine and they also live in a fairly progressive area. So I understand why he thinks his brother is being paranoid and ridiculous.

And yeah it does feel like in a way this is all cultish behavior for sure.

No. 2044173

>>2044165
Kind of unrelated to your friend's dilemma and the whole HSTS discussion but:
>his brother is just too fucking paranoid thinking that once he does this stuff to himself, he's gonna face a lot of people (men) trying to physically assault him
Imagine your average woman deliberately trying to modify her appearance while specifically in advance thinking it will lead to tons of physical assaults, but wanting to do it anyway and guilt tripping anyone who tries to stop them with 'but I will be so victimized after I do this to myself!' Men are so retarded and the weird troon fixation on wanting to be victims like women are against their will through no choice of their own is so disgusting. They literally fantasize about being assaulted by other men and becoming victims while women actively fear it, and then they want us to sympathize and accept them as 'one of us.'

No. 2044176

>>2044125
I wouldn't do it in private. I'd call him 'she' in some circumstances, like if we're in a public space or surrounded by men and playing along is safer for him. I would never be okay with him being in women's spaces though. Not that i think HSTS present a big risk (at least in terms of SA), but them going in women's toilet legitimizes the rest of TiM advocacy and it still operates on 'castrated man = woman' logic

No. 2044193

Performative cross gender roles are stupid but the way trans identified people do it looks like a desperation of a sliver of being treated like the gender they want to be. Usually these people lash out at 'cis' people they see as less deserving of the treatment than themselves.

No. 2044195

>>2042150
>she's not even a tif
How do you know?

No. 2044197

>>2044195
She's dating a man and dresses like a woman anon lol, long hair and all that.

No. 2044199

>>2044173
AYRT and fuckign exactly and I'm glad my friend knows this because he tried to tell his brother that he's been dressing feminine presenting for far longer than him and realizes that it comes with risks but that if push comes to shove, he doesn't have to be a victim. He took a self-defense class for a short while and before he got a car and had to walk most places, he would carry pepper spray and/or a knife if he knew he was gonna be out late. He was being proactive and when he tried to tell his brother that he doesn't have to be a victim and that he can take the self-accountability to at least learn how to defend himself, he once again shot it down saying that "not everyone is like you". And considering how my friend has told me that his brother has fantasized about rape in the past (but didn't act on it) because he said he likes to be dominated by men, my friend can't help but feel like he's so deluded in his fetish (don't know what to call it) that it plays a part in why he wants to victimize himself.

No. 2044201

>>2044176
Hm fair. I suppose the pronoun thing wouldn't be that big a deal, as stupid as it would feel but it's the using our spaces that I don't think I could ever be okay with at all no matter who the guy is. I would just tell them to go outside or wait till you get home but that's just me.

No. 2044206

>>2044197
Then it is very fair to say she isn't one, therefore:
Unironic actual TIFs who choose to present themselves feminine fakebois are actually more masculine than stone butches and therefore it is logical they should get hrt and surgery. Not saying it's healthy though.

No. 2044207

>>2044206
Samefag; when I say men are more masculine than women I'd be misogynistic anyway

No. 2044221

>>2042150
>she’s not even a tif
> she doesn't feel like a woman
…if shes a female who identifies as trans then that’s a tif. It literally means trans identified female. Dressing girly with long hair and dating men doesn”t mean she’s less of a TIF, that’s actually pretty normal nowadays, where “you don’t need dysphoria to be trans” “nonbinary people don’t owe you androgyny”, etc. I know a ton of extremely girly women who go by masculine names, he/they pronouns and who put trans flags on their profiles. They’re TIFs.

No. 2044258

>>2044199
Before I clocked my one semi-passing HSTS acquaintance me and my other friends would offer to walk him home at night before we went to our own places (we lived very close and in a dangerous area) and he would always be like 'why???' and if we said it's scary here at night he would just say 'oh I've never felt scared' (this would later factor into me realizing he was male).

But then on social media later I once saw him get into a comment fight about trans shit with some other people and he started blub-blubbing about how terrifying it is to be a troon, how they're constantly in fear of their lives for looking like women or presenting feminine, how they don't even feel safe walking alone at night or even during the day (he didn't include himself in this because he was still trying to be stealth) and I was like wtaf? You literally repeatedly teased/mocked me for thinking you would feel unsafe walking home alone in a dangerous neighbourhood at night. It's such a LARP/fantasy.

No. 2044260

File: 1718047518741.png (232.86 KB, 598x769, silas denver.png)

>We are just peaceful people

No. 2044271

>>2044258
That's crazy anon but it really does show the mental gymnastics troons, especially HSTS like to engage in. It's not scary for them to walk alone at night until a woman points out that troons don't have to worry about walking home and not fearing male violence.

No. 2044288

>>2044114
The relative is a TIM younger cousin who sort of straddles the line between AGP and HSTS - he’s probably autistic, nerdy, into video games, anime, and drag queens, and he’s dating another TIM (so they’re gay with extra steps - they call themselves lesbians). I haven’t said anything to him or his mom about my GC views. His mom supports him by calling him her daughter - I think she’s one of those liberal moms who’s excited to have an extremely special oppressed minority child she can virtue signal about. But also I’m sure his mom realizes that if she didn’t support his trooning he might never speak to her or threaten to 41% himself and blame her for it. I’m open about my GC views to my mom (who is a “just be kind!!!” libfem about it), and to the TIM’s stepdad (who seems to be taking a hands-off approach to the whole thing). We live far apart so I don’t see the TIM very often but when we do I usually just refer to him by his (female) name if I’m talking about him in the 3rd person. And if him or his mom say anything about him being a woman or a lesbian, or about tranny genocide, I just say “okay sure mmhmm” and then change the subject.

No. 2044299

>>2044288
This is the way honestly. I refuse to use preferred pronouns ever in any context but if I'm forced to be polite under threat of whatever I will just say the person's chosen name instead of a pronoun every time.

>I think she’s one of those liberal moms who’s excited to have an extremely special oppressed minority child

Lol I know a middle aged libfem like this (mom of one of my close friends). They had a son everyone assumed to be gay for his whole life because he was into theater and seemed effeminate, and she constantly joined all these groups for 'supporting queer kids' or like 'mom hugs for queer kids whose actual moms don't support them' (this group is like half male troons based on the photos she posts on facebook and it makes me really uncomfortable that these moids go out in public offering to hug other people's children whose parents dont support them), doing all sorts of mild mannered activism for queer kids. The funny thing is once the 'gay' son reached adulthood it turned out he's actually straight lol.

No. 2044302

>>2044288
Thank you for explaining your situation and that doesn't sound easy but at the very least it's just a cousin and not like your sibling or your parent so that can definitely make it easier to ignore. My friend is somewhat in a position like this in the sense that they don't live super close and don't meet all that often these days because of general busy with life stuff but this trans shit has been a driving wedge in their relationship. My friend told me that if things could go back to the way things were where this trans hsit was still a relatively underground thing like in the late 90s and early 00s, he would feel more comfortable looking the other way with this but he has peaked and has peaked hard and he just can't undo the peaking (which I totally get).
I think I'll just tell him that if he really doesn't want to sever the tie with his brother, just keep distance and if he can swallow it when they meet in person, just call him the preferred pronouns just to assure his safety. He already said that he doesn't think he'll even want to hang out with his brother all that much if he gets the breasts implants regardless but still, doesn't hurt to give some advice. I really feel for him because while I understand that they are brothers and have gone through a lot, his brother just sounds like an emotional vampire type of person.

No. 2044306

>>2044302
The only pronoun you use when you hang out one-on-one with someone is 'you,' anyway, assuming they speak English to each other.

No. 2044328

File: 1718051367659.png (275.11 KB, 610x729, Screenshot_15.png)

kek they're all mentally unwell. also comparing this to conversion therapy is so retarded

No. 2044330

>>2044328
samefag the use of "menopausal" here makes my skin crawl too. men can't fucking get any menopause it's literally just them returning to their default state. hilarious how they frame this person having the vapes taken away as a bad thing too if he has a nicotine addiction lmfao.

No. 2044334

>>2044328
>>2044330
The screenshot doesn't even imply that the HRT was taken away deliberately, they just probably saw a random drug and took it away. He's not been permanently "forcibly detransitioned."

Also lmao at the idea that a man is 'menopausal' (meaning when a woman no longer has any more eggs and her body adjusts to no longer ovulating or menstruating) because he stopped taking his useless female birth control pill for like a week.

No. 2044340

>>2044306
It's more that his brother wants to hang out in public with him which my friend thinks is weird because he knows that he (my friend) doesn't really go out much and is pretty much a homebody and whenever he does him, it's at his house and they don't go anywhere. It added to his (my friend) confusion of why his brother thinks they'll be in any danger when he literally only sees him at his house but then the brother said something like "well like if we go to a concert or out to eat sometime" which again, isn't likely.

Honestly it feels like his brother is trying to use him as a validation object when he's out in public or something.

No. 2044343

>>2044334
I don't see why they would deny this person food or drink either if they're just confiscating his shit. Either way it just comes off like lunacy to act like a drug addict getting his drugs taken away is somehow a bad thing, and it's insanely ironic to say "don't look mentally ill" to trannies when they're all mentally ill. And yeah the comparison to menopause is retarded, imagine being a menopausal woman and getting compared to a whole ass man just because you don't menstruate anymore. clown world

No. 2044347

>>2044343
Yeah I don't get that either. How do you "look" mentally ill in troon logic when every last one of them is mentally ill. Unless they're saying the ones who dress oddly?

No. 2044356

>>2044347
Pretty much every single troon is the epitome and archetype of 'looking mentally ill' lmao

No. 2044377

>>2044328
>She is becoming menopausal and this is physically and mentally harming her
KEK. As other nonnas have pointed out, men can’t fucking go through menopause. But let’s pretend just, for a moment, that they could. It’s so ironic to see troons try to frame a biological process all women naturally experience as a type of state-orchestrated biochemical torture. It reminds me of how troons whine about their totally real “periods” when they’re just getting diarrhea as a side effect of injecting their bodies with poorly regulated synthetic hormones that don’t even remotely mimic natural hormonal cycles in women. Moids have no idea about the levels of pain and discomfort women tolerate as part of our natural biology. They couldn’t survive it

No. 2044379

>>2044377
Especially considering that many women actually enjoy going through menopause (or at least being in menopause once the initial symptoms go away). You can tell these men think the worst possible thing that can happen to a woman is getting older or becoming infertile, like menopause isn't something we all want to go through eventually because it's just a natural side effect of living out our full lifespan.

No. 2044389

>>2044379
Ayrt, good points. It’s telling how troons think that being old and infertile as a woman is the worst thing ever. Like they constantly project their own male perceptions of what they consider to be the peak of “female value” as evident in how they seek to emulate whatever type of girl they sexually desire (I use the term “girl” here intentionally lol). That was one of the things that peaked me

No. 2044392

>>2044328
>forcibly detransitioned
god, if only

No. 2044396

>>2044389
That or they fetishize the pornofied image of a woman in the HSTS case. They even fetishize things breastfeeding and pregnancy not realizing just how painful childbirth really is but teehee, I just want to get the ultimate peen feel imagiing shoving an infant out my poo-hole and it feeling so orgasmic. They fetishize the porn aspects, never the real shit that we have to go through. These fucks wouldn't last a day. It's like how you see men react when they wear things like pregnancy and/or period stimulators that show them just what kind of pain we deal with and they can't fucking handle it kek.

No. 2044431

>>2044389
A lot of my older female relatives and their friends have told me what a relief it is to finally be in menopause and how freeing it feels but scrotes with womb envy will act like it's supposed to be this severely traumatizing and demoralizing experience for women akin to literal death.

>>2044396
Yup no matter how much some women want to be mothers and enjoy certain aspects of pregnancy like feeling the baby kick inside their stomach I think most women dread many aspects of pregnancy and childbirth itself even if they love the idea of having babies. Men always seem to fetishize and be jealous of the pregnancy and childbirth part, i.e., the physical functions that most women dread, while being entirely uninterested in the actual having a child and raising it bit.

Those 'pregnancy/period simulators' are super fake anyway, no one seems to even understand this. The thing they give to men to 'simulate pregnancy/period cramps' is a TENS machine, which I use for my endometriosis specifically to treat my period cramps. Even on the highest possible setting it doesn't even approach 1/10th of the pain I get on my period, it's literally a relief from the pain of my period. TENS does feel shocking at first and cause some cramping up of muscles but its main purpose is to desensitize neurons to pain by shocking them into numbness, that's why it's usually used for pain treatment.

No. 2044453

>>2044328
>denied vapes
kek vape rights are human rights

No. 2044456

>>2044328
Kek shouldnt he feel affirmed with this so called menopause since it's something all women go through eventually
>>2044379
>>2044389
These are excellent points youre makin nonas

No. 2044473

>>2044431
>Men always seem to fetishize and be jealous of the pregnancy and childbirth part, i.e., the physical functions that most women dread, while being entirely uninterested in the actual having a child and raising it bit.

never thought about it like this but you're so right. I like kids and I wouldn't mind raising one if my life was stable but the pregnancy part and all the physical stuff absolutely terrifies me and is something I'd never want to go through personally. yet these men fetishize it constantly and keep saying they "wish they could be pregnant" and that we're privileged cis wahmen or whatever and the poor wittle twans women can't get pregnant and it's so opressive bla bla…When I fucking wish I could have the dad role and not have to do anything except cum to get a kid

No. 2044478

>>2044473
Same. I never really wanted kids but I think that might be more due to a severe phobia of pregnancy and giving birth than an aversion to the raising a child part, but most moids who are 'jealous' of mothers seem to be the complete opposite. Like the troons who whine that they want (impossible) womb transplants so they can have the 'experience' too although most of them can just have sex with a woman and get a child.

No. 2044605

>>2044431
>Men always seem to fetishize and be jealous of the pregnancy and childbirth part
Oh they 100% do. An AGP once told me he wanted to be pregnant real bad, described a bit of the process before going 'but i wouldn't want the kid, i don't gaf about that'. Textbook pregnancy fetish.
It's hilarious how the menopause thing highlights their idea of estrogen as this magic perfect euphoria juice. Like how they're extremely euphoric during early HRT because they start picturing all kinds of magical transformations. No happy peepee juice = sad peepee = literally worse than crack withdrawal. I genuinely think we'd have far less crossdressers in public (even with porn) without HRT. It's like the idea of a 'treatment' that 'feminizes' them gives them enough of a push to indulge in it, when before they'd be bitterly aware of how they are moids in dresses. Awareness of intersex conditions has the same effect on them

No. 2044664

>>2044605
Lol and here I am having to take meds to lower my estrogen on a regular basis just so I can function, because it definitely isn't magical euphoria juice if you're actually a woman. Honestly after a few days of not taking their HRT can they even notice? I know people have said it can improve men's mood sometimes (at least temporarily) but I wasn't under the impression that was a very strong effect.

No. 2044696

>>2043458
You should cut ties with both of them.

No. 2044699

>>2044396
>It's like how you see men react when they wear things like pregnancy and/or period stimulators
I love watching this shit. Although I did see this one Britbong faggot trying to convince his wife to have a THIRD child, so she made him undergo an hour of the pregnancy simulator. And then, after he went through it, all 20 "levels" of hell, he just goes, "I BEAT IT!" I wish she should divorce him.
Also, I feel like those simulators, whilst not entirely accurate, should be mandatory for all high school students to undergo, especially the scrotes. Make them think twice.

No. 2044703

>>2044699
Samefagging, I'll just post the vid. Britbongs probably know more about them.

No. 2044722

>>2044605
Wtf I had this exact same conversation with someone but it wasn't dm's, it was a tim saying it in a general chat. I never forgot about it and I would share the screencap I took but I'm like 80% sure he lurks here.

No. 2044808

Anons, what do you think of the complaints made by anons in the lesbian thread in /g/? These are claims like
>Radfems hate GNC women and assume all GNC women are troons/eggs
>Anti-porn rhetoric makes lesbians feel ashamed to feel lust for women, or like feeling aroused by women is "moid brained"
>Making fun of TiFs for their appearance makes destransitioners and butches feel ashamed of their bodies

Speaking personally, I think that anons here can be a little too harsh on TiFs' looks, but that's probably more of a lolcow thing than a radfem thing (I have to wonder how many of these /g/ anons have seen TiFs be called ugly outside of Lolcow, and why they're on a cyberbullying site if they hate when someone gets called ugly). As for the other stuff, it feels like overgeneralizing. Some "radfems" (who are often just GC moderates) definitely shit-talk GNC people, but in my experience, they mostly target GNC men. Yeah, the anti-porn talk can get pretty harsh, but you'd have to be pretty fragile to internalize it to the point that it makes you feel guilty for just finding women sexy. No disrespect to those /g/ anons, but they come across as kind of fragile here. Like, they take everything they hear as personally as possible and then assume that radfems are a hivemind who all think that TiFs are "ruined" and GNC women are eggs. Like, I don't want to tell lesbians that there isn't an underlying lesbophobia issue in radfem circles when there often is. But some of their takes sound pretty uncharitable and unnecessarily defensive.

No. 2044809

>>2044696
Nta, that's retarded. Cutting ties with people over gender ideology discourse is troon behavior.

No. 2044816

>>2042524
I disagree with many anons on this topic because I also believe there are men who actually wish to be born as women and women who actually wish to be born as men without having a fetish, being abused, having a mental disorder or being gay. I still don't think people can transition to another sex than the one they're born as because as I have stated, science hasn't advantaged enough to be able to change a person's chromosomes or give them functional genetic organs. What mostly bothers me about the surgeries is that if you look at even the first results of google for plastophally for example, you'll realize how non-accurate it is to the real thing. And how there isn't enough research on long term effects of puberty blockers when kids decide not to transition in the end or research into hormone replacement therapy for long-term effects. So many people are being taken advantage of for profit. But that's irrelevant. Nevertheless…
The concept of gender itself is circular, subjective and really stupid. You simply can't define gender without using personal anecdotes or stereotypes. So if you say you're a woman (gender) or man (gender) or hippopotamus (gender) then… Ok yes you are. Cus we are arguing semantics. You can be whatever you want in that department because YOU make the rules. But people don't have to respect your made up rules.
There's a claim that trans people have the brain of the opposite sex. However, no brain is the same. Men may have on average certain traits that women don't but because there are outliers that doesn't change their sex. The sex is entirely defined by body parts. The claim that the brain doesn't match the body doesn't sound like some sort of dissociation aka mental illness? I think dissociation always has other causes. These should be addressed.
And because both brains and body parts are stuff that people don't have control over, we should just treat people like people regardless of sex. But the concept of gender makes this difficult, as it perpetuates stereotypes even when people claim it doesn't, if someone doesn't follow the stereotypes they're called an "egg".

No. 2044818

>>2044808
The first two points are retarded. Most radfems became radfems because they ARE GNC women. Radfem communities are full of lesbians. Also anti-porn rhetoric making lesbians ashamed of lusting for women is so retarded I have nothing else to say. Feeling arousal isn't 'moid brained,' watching trafficked women (likely minors actually) get raped and abused and getting off on it is.

Regarding making fun of TIFs for their appearance making detransitioners feel sad, well, that sucks for them but I'm sure they were already aware they messed with their bodies if they mutilated them deliberately in the first place. Thankfully many detransitioners go back to looking mostly like normal women unless they were transitioned for a very long time (rare) or are incredibly unlucky. But ugly women have value too so even if an unfortunate detransitioner can't look like a pretty woman anymore, rather than demanding people lie to her that she looks pretty she should instead take solace in the fact that she can be sane and mentally healthier than before instead. Why would butches feel bad about their bodies from people making fun of TIFs?

No. 2044822

>>2044812
I'd wager that 90% of all the women in the world wish they were born men and it's not for fetish reasons, but wishing to have been born the other sex and claiming or thinking or pretending you actually are the other sex are not even remotely similar. Science will never 'advance enough' to be able to change a person's chromosomes to the chromosomes of the opposite sex, by the way. That's impossible no matter the level of scientific advancement. There is plenty of evidence from decades and decades of lupron use that puberty blockers destroy children's lives and health, no more than that needs to be known to ban children from taking them. You sound like you just haven't looked into these topics much or at all but with a little bit of digging you can easily find all you need to know about lupron.

The idea that 'gender' is made up is so silly, it's just another previously rare word for sex that people tried to repurpose in the last few decades to mean 'sex, but slightly different.' They almost all still mean sex when they say gender though, really. Men and women don't have functionally different brains to our knowledge and troons definitely don't have the opposite sex's brain size or amount of white/grey matter.

Only retarded troons call people 'eggs' lmao. Everyone else calls people men and and women like we have for thousands of years. Again I think it's a little naive to think that the 'concept of gender' has anything to do with male and female people being treated differently, men and women were treated and acted differently in society since the beginning of humanity and there was no contemporary idea of gender then. However it is now being used as an excuse for 'liberals' who are actually ultra-conservative to make an even bigger deal out of false sex stereotypes.

No. 2044824

>>2042895
Real biologists (and scientists of any kind) are in labs and shit where they're too busy to use social media to talk about the latest trends and don't bother explaining to the public about biology but rather other researches and biologists. And most of all, they only care about the general news and not those that don't concern them. Why would they give a shit about trans people when those don't have anything to do with them? Plus they're not stupid to post their opinion on a public forum because they have nothing to prove and know everyone will have access to it. I don't think they have time for social media at all aside from liking their children's and spouse's pictures on Facebook

No. 2044825

>>2044822
It's obvious the person I am replying to has been in trutrans circles or is not peaked yet and came to ask questions to understand the situation better, this is why I am speaking to them in a way that is digestible and has some variations from the usual opinions presented here, because nobody takes a hivemind seriously.

No. 2044826

>>2044824
Yeah uh sorry to break it to you but this is not true at all, almost all STEM professors especially in health or bio type fields are usually expected to attempt to publicize and draw attention to their research and twitter is the easiest way to do this. Profs who are less successful or earlier in their careers may be less likely to keep up an active social media but the more successful someone is the more likely they are to post on social media and they are encouraged to do so by their departments. You will genuinely have a hard time finding anyone who does not keep up social media for their job. Now that the trans issue is very important for PR they are expected to pay occasional lip service to troon shit, not only on social media but also in the classes they teach (usually it will be in the form of a disclaimer if the issue of sex in humans comes up) and often in other situations they're expected to signal belief in gender shit like pronouns in email, pronouns on researchgate account, etc. I don't know why you would bother posting this thing that is clearly untrue and easily disprovable, biologists shilling troon shit on social media is overwhelmingly common now.

No. 2044828

>>2044826
I'm not American, I don't know how biologists are there, should've specified

No. 2044831

>>2044431
I didn't know this, but I always figured the pain levels were complete lies, because if they induced real 10/10 muscle pain, the scrotes would be getting dizzy, tunnel vision, clammy, throwing up, passing out, possibly even having a heart attack. So nobody would even be allowed to do it if it was near what a bad period is like.

No. 2044838

>>2044828
I'm not american either

No. 2044841

>>2044825
I understand that but it's not useful to try to 'peak' people by including obvious falsehoods in your post like 'one day science will be able to change our chromosomal sex' or 'we just don't know how puberty blockers affect children' when you can google for 10 minutes and find out this is not true.

No. 2044842

>>2044838
This website ain't big enough for both of us

No. 2044847

>>2044831
Yeah I didn't originally know that they were using a TENS machine but its main use in medical contexts is pain treatment, it's used specifically for endometriosis pain a lot (so the electrodes go on the same part of your abdomen that they put them on for men to simulate period cramps) which is just really funny. Like the thing that is making them hyperventilate in pain is the thing that I use to make my periods less painful lol?

It's more commonly used for back pain and stuff, they can actually be quite weird/painful if you put them on certain muscle groups like your forearms because it will basically paralyze your hand temporarily, but it's more of a weird feeling than a pain feeling. I can't imagine they get anywhere close to simulating pregnancy pain with those things, because their purpose is to numb/overload nerves so they stop sending pain signals to your brain for a while. I guess they use them because they can induce muscle cramping, but men don't even have the tissues that cramp in women so it's not going to feel similar anyway. It probably makes them feel like they need to take a shit and maybe that's why troons that have tried it think having indigestion is the same as menstrual cramps?

You're right though that the most obvious sign they're not simulating bad period or pregnancy pain is that men would pass out from the pain lmao they are so weak to pain.

No. 2044852

>>2044842
Lol but yeah it's a global thing, Twitter is the social media platform with the most impact on Altmetrics, especially in physical sciences and life sciences fields, globally. So yes scientists usually have a social media presence and with that comes all the virtue signaling because you don't want to give your institution a bad name by - god forbid - suggesting you don't believe in gender feels.

No. 2044866

File: 1718089781385.png (25.94 KB, 605x264, 076.png)

>>2044808
>>Making fun of TiFs for their appearance makes destransitioners and butches feel ashamed of their bodies
Why should this be a problem? They were ashamed of their bodies to begin with, otherwise they wouldn't have transitioned. I'm not here to baby retards. Pic very related.

>I think that anons here can be a little too harsh on TiFs' looks

We are not harsh enough.

No. 2044886

>>2044808
I think some of those anons are just looking for reasons to be upset and see themselves as victims, or they are terminally online. I'm very GNC as well as SSA (bi, although it doesn't come up a lot because I'm not dating anyone right now) and I have never encountered these opinions in irl radfem communities. There are radfems and GC feminists who are straight turbonormies who've always been very gender conforming, have the house with the picket fence, a moid and kids etc., and they sometimes have the tendency to overgeneralize their experiences or assume that all women are like them, which can sometimes make me feel alienated when my own personality and looks differ from that a lot, but it has never led to any major conflict in my experience. Usually I'll just try to gently bring in a different perspective, and most of the time they'll understand in the end. It can be annoying sometimes, but that's just part of dealing with people.

No. 2044914

>>2044841
> one day science will be able to change our chromosomal sex
That could be possible in the far future.
> we just don't know how puberty blockers affect children
True. We know.

No. 2044923

>>2044914
Nah it's not. Every cell in the body is decided by chromosomal sex, if we mutated every cell in the body we would die instantly. Some things just aren't physically possible and won't be, same with womb transplants. The only way something like this could happen is if after several million or billion more years humans somehow evolved to reproduce asexually or something but it's much more likely our species would go extinct by then and it's not relevant to any real life discussion anyway, but we're not going to be able to 'switch sex' in an already living organism.

No. 2044926

>>2044808
From my understanding it seems like most nonnies make fun of the horrendous effects of T and predatory surgical procedures that tifs get and not necessarily being GNC. Though I see just as much ridicule for other unnessecary and poorly done plastic surgery all the time too. Some woman running around in a men’s suit and a buzz cutt doesn’t warrant much comment unless coupled with some unhinged cow behavior (or much admiration if said woman is handsome).

Though I can’t imagine the horror of waking up from the cult and realizing the mutilation I self inflicted while under the brainworm of “muh gender”.

The porn thing is wild. Do they enjoy watching women who are likely trafficked/abused? How is that sexy?

I’ve been reading up on some lesbian history recently and I’m so sad that so much of it is getting transwashed or straight up ignored. Fucking insane.

Same with GNC women of the past too. “Oh women weren’t allowed to do shit becuase of how horrendously patriarchal society is and the only way to live independently was to disguise yourself as a man. Yes very much trans instead of desperately trying to live as a person with dignity and self determination. The qualities that only men want, not these silly subhuman females.”

No. 2044929

>>2044923
>>2044914
There is also absolutely no need for this either, so why should we focus our effort on something as ridiculous as changing chromosomes or womb transplants when those serve only a small minoritys coomer fetishes anyway. I'd rather we go extinct than play god.

No. 2044930

>>2044929
Yeah exactly, like I said it's not relevant to real life discussion and I don't think it's a good way of convincing someone who's on the fence/believes in true trans because it's just kind of intellectually insulting them to even bring it up. This is exactly the type of intellectually insulting shit troons do too, talking about clownfish and amoebas and other random hypotheticals to try to convince human beings that we should consider letting people fake their sex because some fish and microbes have different reproductive strategies than we do. None of that is even relevant to the human experience.

No. 2044931

What's the most clockable troon hairstyle for males vs females? I have one for each in mind but I wanna hear what others think

No. 2044937

>>2044930
There is no nonbinary animals nor third sex in animals either, theyre binary no matter how strange.

No. 2044938

>>2044808
>Radfems hate GNC women and assume all GNC women are troons/eggs
radfems are more likely to be gnc themselves and do no believe in trans, so this is all untrue almost by default
>Anti-porn rhetoric makes lesbians feel ashamed to feel lust for women, or like feeling aroused by women is "moid brained"
unless they want women to be sexually abused and trafficked they should be ashamed for disliking anti-porn rhetoric
>Making fun of TiFs for their appearance makes destransitioners and butches feel ashamed of their bodies
Frankly, that's their own fault for making those poor body modification decisions. If you feel bad over being called "unfeminine" and "manly" as a butch you shouldn't have gone butch to begin with? If I dress in a male inspired way I have no right to be upset if people call it masculine, that's literally what I aimed for!
I feel a lot of compassion for detrans women, but to say we can't be genuinely horrified over seeing a mutilated female chest or frankendick is ridiculous - if it's upsetting to them they should click off the page. And if we make fun of a rainbow haired self-proclaimed goblin with a beard who made herself ugly on purpose that's not a reflection of someone who is detrans and regrets it.

No. 2044945

>>2044808
I think some GC and honestly some radfems as well don’t like FTMs cause they’re weird but also are, deep down, gleeful that female competition is torching itself.

No. 2044948

>>2044931
for male troons who still have their real hair it's usually extremely stringy, shoulder length or just past shoulder length with combover levels of side part that they think hides their receding hairline but actually makes it more obvious, often very badly dyed a weird color. For males with no hair left usually a very cheap blonde wig pushed super far forward on the forehead like it's fooling anyone.

Female troons around me is usually some sort of side-shaved floppy haircut similar to eboys, at least where I live.

>>2044937
AYRT and I know, that's why I said 'reproductive strategies' not third genders lmao, but I think the true trans poster was probably only talking about binary gender troons anyway.

No. 2044953

>>2044938
Honestly regarding the detrans women I'm pretty sure most of them had self esteem issues already and detransed in part because they knew the FTM shit was fucking them up and making them look weird to people, so I don't see how GC/radfem women making fun of active TIFs would be telling them anything they don't already know. At least they can feel good about the fact they stopped. I honestly have very rarely seen radfems say anything actively mean about detrans women themselves, at worst I've seen comments like 'oh no it must be hard for her to have to shave her beard now' or 'I feel sad for her that she probably won't get her old voice back but it's fine to be GNC.'

No. 2044955

>>2044931
Tifs and theythem women love shitty mullets

No. 2044965

>>2044808
I assume there are a few that are detrans/currents ftms/or handmaidens but understand it's unpopular here and looking to excuse their own responsibility for their contribution to the situation. It's bound to happen when things begin to fall out of favour.

No. 2044969

File: 1718102177441.png (264.06 KB, 998x937, cecee.png)

> looking for proof of transgender and nonbinary people existing in different cultures throughout history
> ask a tumblr user if the third gender in some culture an actual third gender or just a subcategory for gay and pedophilic men created to exclude them from society
> xe doesn't understand
> pull out an illustrated diagram explaining what is social exclusion and what is gender
> xey laugh and say "it's a third gender miss"
> look it up
> it's a subcategory for gay and pedophilic men created to exclude them from society

No. 2044970

>>2044945
Competition for what? Male attention? There’s plenty of moids who take advantage of tifs to have “gay” sex.

No. 2044985

>>2044808
>Anti-porn rhetoric makes lesbians feel ashamed to feel lust for women, or like feeling aroused by women is "moid brained"
Ehhhh, yes and no. Yes women (incl. some radfems) make other women feel monster-like for having lesbian desires, but it's mostly their heterosexuality and general hang-ups about sex showing. The weird 'no sex depictions at all, even in movies' posturing is a good example of this. To tie it to anti-porn rhetoric (another issue) is bizarre, unless we include erotica and drawings in 'porn', then i agree that LC users can have extreme bad faith when it comes to lesbian smut. I presume the constant reference to 'scrotelike' fantasies and 'oh my godddd i hope i'm not a moid to you nonnas' makes them insecure. It's really, really annoying but again, don't see why they drag anti-porn into this.

>Radfems hate GNC women and assume all GNC women are troons/eggs

Mostly untrue. Radfems can be surprisingly conventional and ridden with intra-female competition depsite claims to undermine gender, so i get why a more masculine/direct woman would struggle with them. They still have lots of appreciation for GNC women from what i've experienced. The use of 'hate' comes off as really dramatic.

/g/ posters make some legit critiques of radfems/GCs but they judge feminism like they'd judge a friend group. Saying things like 'GCs aren't sincere when they defend GNC women' why does it matter if they're sincere or not? They're countering the mainstream messaging about us, they're not trying to be our friends and care about our precious little hearts. To be fair radfems often have the same issue of thinking a political line is a friend group, and ironically chastize GCs on a similar basis. I really dislike this fragile stance, unless someone insults you or implies you're predatory/repulsive/whatever (which can happen) there's no reason to be so offended and anxious.

No. 2044987

>>2044931
TIFs love terrible shaved hairstyles. They always pick the kinds that don't suit them and it looks like they did it in the mirror at 3am with pet fur trimmers. They also like DIY rainby hair that also doesn't suit them and displays a total lack of knowledge on how hair dye works, but that seems to be going out of fashion nowadays. Anything short or ugly, like mullets or pixie cuts, that the cool GNC girls wore in 80s movies, but the Wish version of that, with way too much gel. Whatever hairstyle they choose it's always greasy because TIFs are too triggered by their icky girl bodies to shower.
TIMs skinwalk their porn addictions. Younger ones go for bright wigs and cat ear headbands, older ones attempt the hairstyles that were in Playboy back in their day, quite a lot of them don't even try and just grow their remaining hair out into ratty greasy strings. The hair is always filthy regardless of whether it's a wig or not because they're too busy gooning to AI porn to care about lice, and pornsick moids never shower anyway regardless of what they identify as.

No. 2044990

>>2044985
The discussions of smut and smut-bashing are pretty specific to lolcow though, lolcow is full of weebs who love infighting about their different erotic art and attractions but it's not normal at all in any other GC-heavy communities I've been part of to see people infighting about lesbian cartoons. On the topic of movies I don't like graphic depictions of sex in movies most of the time because honestly they are not that far from porn in many ways and it's just unnecessary, and I still don't understand what this has to do with lesbians. A vast majority of sex in media is straight/gay male, there is very little lesbian sex depicted in movies.

I also agree that radfem communities (and all other feminist communities since feminist communities started to exist) are ridden with intra-female competition but I don't think radfems explicitly have any issue with GNC women. Plus the type of GNC behavior radfem communities tend to struggle with is not what most lesbians have anyway - meaning more masculine presentation - but rather a more aggressive demeanor or being not very nice to other women. Ironically I think most lesbians tend to be nicer to other women than average. Radfem communities love GNC clothing and presentation though, always have. Almost everyone in the radfem communities I've been exposed to is either a lesbian or bisexual or an extremely GNC presenting straight woman so I don't know where this critique that radfems 'don't defend' GNC women comes from, they are almost exclusively GNC women since one of the main tenets of modern radical feminism is a hatred for gender conformity.

No. 2044993

>>2044987
>Younger ones go for bright wigs and cat ear headbands
God I wish, the younger male troons in my city are like 98% the 'ratty greasy strings' variety, I'd actually prefer it if they covered up how absolutely dirty their hair is with a wig but none of them ever seem to

No. 2044995

TIF boasts about being pornsick. What's your response?

No. 2044997

>>2044995
"It's bad to be pornsick"

No. 2045002

>>2044945
Odd take, i've been in gc circles and anonymous boards like this for literal years and I've never seen it come up until now. If anything I see frustration that pretty girls "ruined" themselves by trooning and that it was such a waste.

No. 2045005

>>2044995
telling her that being misogynistic doesn't stop her from being a target of misogyny nor does it make men think she's one of them

No. 2045006

>>2044990
>it's not normal at all in any other GC-heavy communities I've been part of to see people infighting about lesbian cartoons.
Yep, it comes off as tunnel vision.
>I still don't understand what (sex in movies) has to do with lesbians
Well, i've seen radfems/GCs take issue with lesbian sex scenes in films that weren't even porn-like, just because 'a man would love this'. It's like they can't turn off their train of thought about men even if they're discussing women's enjoyment of lesbian erotica. It's not frequent but i've seen it so i know this particular brainrot isn't exclusive to LC

No. 2045023

File: 1718106706878.mp4 (2.55 MB, 854x480, BJBftcv.mp4)

weird

No. 2045046

>>2045023
It's like a church sermon

No. 2045047

>>2045023
Oh my god she’s so special and unique. She’s in the only group of people to express authenticity and create community and be courageously creative. Wow wow wow.

No. 2045053

>>2044822
>90% of all the women in the world wish they were born men
Uh, no? They want parity with men, not to literally be men. I doubt women want to be as hairy, stinky, and bald as the average moid.

No. 2045072

>>2044995
tell her that no matter how much she betrays her own kind moids will never see her as one of them

No. 2045087

>>2044995
'Yeah, I can tell'
>>2044969
Troonism is misogyny all the way down. That's the one thing none of these NLOGs will ever acknowledge. It's funny though that all the focus on uwu backwards brown jungle ppl who are sooo enlightened has only brought up examples of pedos existing throughout history, but because they have a very speshul 3rd gender or caste system, it's totally OK and it's racist to point out that the men who made a system specifically to kidnap and fuck little boys are pedos.
You'd think that the bleeding heart crowd would be able to tell that preaching that all non-YTs are massive retards who can't tell what a woman is is racist, but they're the ones who go around doing this.

No. 2045168

>>2044808
The lesbian threads in g are unusable because so many posts are obvious transbian larper fantasies, so I would assume all that bullshit is TIMs trying to sow discord.

No. 2045169

>>2044987
Can confirm the TIM that skinwalks me that I friendzoned has the hairstyle I wore for years in my 20s but is too retarded about haircare to maintain it or make it look good.

No. 2045173

>>2045046
When I went to my city’s pride festival this past weekend I realized it was basically a tent revival church service for woke liberals and spicy straights. This whole woke queer ideology explosion is just a way for white liberals who don’t want to be part of a Christian church to feel like they’re doing the morally correct thing, they have the correct morals and values, and they are part of a community of fellow believers who also believe in the correct things. Under this new woke doctrine, “privilege” has replaced the Christian concept of original sin. Jesus said “Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth.” In the new woke religion, the black trans woman deserves the most reverence/deference because they have the least amount of privilege. You can see this mythology-forming in action by woke people’s newfound reverence of Marsha P. Johnson, who is now seen as the quasi-mythical founder of the modern gay rights movement and the reason for the (Pride) season.

No. 2045365

File: 1718130589222.jpg (260.12 KB, 2436x1536, Annoyed Pikachu.jpg)

>>2042602
To the anon who was talking about their gay friend who has cusping troon brother, I have to admit that when I try talking about this stuff with my normie TRA friends, they do a similar thing where they ask me for proof of TIMs wreaking havoc on women and whenever I redirect them to articles, they simply hand wave them essentially saying that they are cherry-picked and bias and that "real" trans people are normal and just trying to live their lives.
I've tried to explain to them that it's the principle of the situation, that allowing "true trans" TIMs into women and girls spaces, it really does open the floor to any kind of man to enter and do what they've been doing. They think I'm just being paranoid.

One of my acquaintances even pointed out how I'm being hypocritical for getting on TIMs assaulting women in our spaces but ignoring the TIFs who enter men's spaces to which I explained that TIFs aren't assaulting men in their spaces the way TIMs are doing that to women in our own spaces so they're a higher threat. They still thought I was being bias only focusing on the TIMs though. But the fact that you can't find reports of TIFs or Enbys assaulting men should really be obvious why it's not happening but they're too dumb to notice that. And in the end, I find myself getting a bit heated at times when we talk about this stuff.

I'm trying to not talk about this stuff anymore with them because it feels like they'll never understand where I'm coming from and many of them are such whipping girls for TIMs. I guess my question is, have any of you dealt with this when trying to debate this stuff only to have your sources invalidated and told it's irrelevant? How is one supposed to keep their composure when all your arguments are being turned down and invalidated?

No. 2045424

File: 1718134314957.jpg (80.31 KB, 653x317, fg8.jpg)

>>2045365
You accuse them of lacking compassion for rape victims. there are plenty of examples you can use:
>https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13443635/rapist-prisoner-trans-cellmate-California-women.html
Guilt-trip them at every opportunity.

No. 2045429

>>2045424
I've tried this. I remember when I was speaking with one of them, I was giving them a rapid fire are stories like this like the girl who almost got abducted in bathrrom, the cases of women being impregnated in women's prisons, Chris Chan's story (they didn't know who he was), etc. They just hand wave it essentially resorting to rebuttals like "not all trans" and "those aren't "actual" trans people". Nothing seems to work.

No. 2045433

>>2045365
>>2045429

It's like having Christian friends who are adamant that the earth is 6,000 years old and God created the world in 7 days. You can show them a hundred fossils and they'll just shrug and say "God works in mysterious ways" or "Satan is the Great Deceiver" because to acknowledge otherwise would mean acknowledging that their entire worldview is false, they've been wasting their time going to church and they've bought into a lie, (they might now go to Hell for not being a believer), and all of their Christian friends will now disown them for being a heretic.

Seriously, you can't use logic to convince a TRA of GC talking points, they just need to have their own IRL encounter with a creepy TIM in a women's bathroom and then the scales will fall from their eyes.

It's good to be able to have friends that you can disagree with while still remaining friends, be glad that they haven't unfriended you for your wrongthink. Hopefully if they ever do have a peaking moment they will trust you as a safe person to discuss their new heretical ideas with.

No. 2045453

>>2045433
Yeah I suppose you're right that it's pretty much like arguing religion and that there just isn't any convincing if the person refuses to actually use critical thinking and be perceptive of patterns.

Yeah my friends haven't totally disowned me and at worse, I only have one friend who said that I'm transphobic and just need to understand that there is such thing as people being born in the wrong body and has since stopped talking to me as much but my other friends haven't done this to me just yet.

No. 2045464

I have a similar problem though in my situation, I have friends who understand that I don't support gender ideology but they try to convince me to believe that there are "real" trans people and that I should just use preferred pronouns to "be nice" and to not worry about every TIM that enters women's spaces. It's so annoying how naive they are and like >>2045429 I have tried directing my friends to the reports of troon fuckery but they disregard it.

The thing that brought up our differing views was when we talking about the upcoming elections and how they're planning to vote for Biden to which I said I'm not sure if I'll vote for him because the democratic party has been awful with this trans stuff. I'm not a conservative by any means and I don't necessarily see me voting conservative but I've been thinking a lot about what has been happening with Biden's run these last few years.

No. 2045495

>>2045453
I'd bet that most of us posting ITT peaked and became GC either because we're a former TIF who eventually realized that they'd been sucked into a cult full of predators, or because we're a nerdy woman who's had a lot of unpleasant interactions with troons because we're involved in hobbies/activities where a lot of troons congregate, like anime conventions, video games and DnD, art school, etc. Most normies don't have much exposure to troons IRL except for maybe seeing HSTS like Laverne Cox and Elliott Page on TV occasionally, so they don't have much reason to look deeper into the issue. It's like - I don't have family members in Ukraine, Russia, Israel, or Palestine, so I don't have any reason to keep up with what's going on with those wars, I have no personal stake in it. If you don't have to actually interact with troons IRL, and virtually all mainstream media outlets, all major medical boards, and even President Biden are in agreement that yes, you can be born in the wrong body, troons are the most vulnerable population alive, and the only reason anyone would ever dislike them is if they're a right wing Christian Republican Nazi bigot, why would you feel the need to question the popular narrative?

No. 2045503

>>2045495
AYRT and that was definitely me. I kinda flirted with Nonbinary because I didn't completely conform to femininity, that and I was on "that" side of Tumblr (I cringe at young me) and what peaked me was when I followed some troon artists on Tumblr and taking notice how a lot of them would try coom shit with most female characters. It was just so offputting but I kept quiet until enough was enough. And then the Wii Spa thing happened that turned intrigued me to look at any other stories of TIMs exposing themselves in women's restroom and came across a sub on reddit of TIMs who'd take pictures of their boners while in the women's restroom (and one locker room). I was mortified at what I saw and it just peaked me out.

No. 2045536

>>2045424
nta but when I do bring up examples like this, they'll claim that I'm using 'right-wing talking points' because there are millions of "trans women" who don't commit rape, but the media isn't focused on them

No. 2045565

>>2045053
At some point what's the difference? If you asked your average woman in some patriarchal shithole 'would you rather have been born a man' they would probably say yes automatically because they see that men have much better lives. This is true of most TIFs too, it's not like most of them are thrilled to get acne, a shitty beard, central obesity and start balding when they're on T. A lot of women become miserable and detrans when this starts happening. They might have thought a 'male body' was what they wanted but I think usually the motivations are not that but the lack of sexualization of men, the fact men are given more respect and more of a voice in society, the benefits men get in relationships. A lot of women also would prefer not to have to go through menstruation and childbirth and fear of rape if they were given the choice and would switch with men for that reason alone.

No. 2045567

>>2045087
>You'd think that the bleeding heart crowd would be able to tell that preaching that all non-YTs are massive retards who can't tell what a woman is is racist
You'd think that if you assumed there was any real coherence or thought behind their ideology, but there usually isn't. The people most likely to virtue signal about colonialism, marginalized voices, blah blah are also the least likely to actually humanize and respect the people they're talking about. They just use them as convenient cudgels to beat everyone with and say 'look at me, I'm so much deeper and more empathetic than you all!' Their hypocrisy is a big part of what peaked me, not only on troons but on many other aspects of idpol as well.

No. 2045580

>>2045365
This is why I hate when people invoke the 'slippery slope fallacy.' It's only a fallacy if it isn't a slippery slope, but most of the time when people warn about a slippery slope it's because it's actually there. Now everyone who took a philosophy 101 class in high school thinks they're really deep and rational and that they're destroying idiots in arguments when they say 'but that's a fallacy!' even if you can provide them with tons of evidence that the thing in question is actually happening at increasing rates.

It might help to link them to one of those huge lists (like thisneverhappens) of all the thousands of situations where a thing happens. That was actually one of the major factors that led to my total peaking, I was already feeling uneasy about the ideology and the TIMs I met in real life but I assumed they were outliers or 'bad' examples, then I found some super obscure website (wish I remembered the link) that had a list of like 300 hyperlinks to various trans bathroom assaults and started to really rethink my view that it was just a 'tiny minority' then. Trans people are supposed to be a tiny minority already, why are there hundreds/thousands of examples of them raping women in prison, winning women's sports, assaulting women in bathrooms, being overrepresented as sex offenders in prison systems all over the world and so on if they're such a small group already and the number of them who do 'bad' things is supposedly a tiny minority of that tiny minority?

I think your friends who think you are just being paranoid just have a bit of motivated cognition/rationalization going on. They might feel uneasy when you give them examples but not want to look at them because they don't want to experience the cognitive dissonance that comes with confirming a bias they don't want to have. That's why they often won't accept one-off examples, or sometimes even huge long lists, but sometimes they will come around eventually when they can't bat the 'bad thoughts' away anymore and the evidence keeps staring them in the face.

If it helps I used to be one of those people who reacted 'oh no need to go down that rabbit hole' when I saw examples but I eventually came around, and this was back in 2015-2016 when there weren't as many examples. It is probably pointless to keep directly arguing with your friends but you planted a seed, and that seed may eventually sprout.

No. 2045584

>>2045433
>Hopefully if they ever do have a peaking moment they will trust you as a safe person to discuss their new heretical ideas with.
NTAYRT but this happened to me a few times, both with the gender issue and with some other 'heretical' views I had. People would act like I was a big bad evil monster for saying negative things about TIMs or trans ideology, but when they eventually had their own 'oh shit' moment I was the first person they came to to try to talk it out. Just because they're not accepting your arguments now doesn't mean you haven't created a bit of awareness in them that they may eventually come back to.

It was the same thing for me, the first person who used to say terfy shit to me was someone I kept brushing off as meanspirited, crazy, and a conspiracy theorist but I still remembered some of the things she'd said and when I finally had my own peaking moment I went to her to talk about it because I knew she was a safe person to discuss my wrongthink with. It actually led to us bonding a lot more.

No. 2045589

>>2045495
Not me, I'm on the surface a relative normie with extrovert interests (although I am more into weird internet communities than most normies) but even in my normie irl communities I kept encountering TIMs at parties, through friends, and through the music community. I had 'trans positive' views mostly because I went to college and colleges are full of people pushing these views, but by the same token college and the people I met there also exposed me to how stupid and dangerous trans ideology can be. I think it depends where you live but any young person who goes to school or works in a really liberal city will probably be exposed to a bunch of troons irl by default, but first they're usually exposed to troon ideology by default from teachers and professors and other student activists. For older people it's harder because a lot of older normies simply don't encounter that many troons, so some of the most incredibly out of touch TRA libfems I know are middle aged women with high school/college aged kids who exposed them to gender ideology.

>>2045503
> a sub on reddit of TIMs who'd take pictures of their boners while in the women's restroom
What's the subreddit nonna?

No. 2045630

File: 1718145604938.png (11.86 KB, 669x87, al.png)

>>2045365
Perhaps you need to start with the basics, nonna. The whole thing is flawed because "man" and "woman" have referred to biological sexes for all of linguistic history, and the biological sexes within mammals are a matter of who produces small gametes and who produces large ones. Humans cannot change sex. Therefore men cannot become women, and vice versa. What is actually happening during so-called transition, is that someone attempts to switch from one "social gender" to the other. However, the idea of a "social gender" is sexist in the first place, because it's just the idea that "girls should like these things and boys like these tings" writ large - its just culture reproduced and developed over the span of history, it has no actual material justifications. I find that as long as you remain firm in the fact that humans are mammals, who function as mammals do and are differentiated as such, and the rest is a spiderweb of social info originating in the oppression of women, there is little to argue with.
Once this has sat with them for a long time, you can try to slip in differences between male and female libido, how it's observable and recorded, and how transgenderism makes sense from that point. Men's libidinal drives innately having an element of domination and ownership, these things overlapping with coomerism and online BDSM culture, and then the connections should start to become clear.
If all else fails, always listen to trans people - screenshots of their own posted lunacy. The real difficult part is doing all of this while trying to not seem insane, even though it is insanity-inducing just because of how dumb it all is.

No. 2045642

>>2045630
Unfortunately nonna although that is the first thing that inoculated me against TRA ideology in the first place and led to me peaking, I've found it's shockingly ineffective as an argument with most liberals. A lot of them have a deeply ingrained idea that sex stereotypes/"gender roles" are real and innate - more real and innate and important than biology itself! - and that therefore maintaining and upholding them is a positive. They might deny that consciously and pretend they don't believe it, but they usually do and it's really hard to convince them with that argument. It's also hard to convince them, even if they get your point, that people 'pretending' to be the opposite sex presents a real danger if all they're doing is 'playing with gender roles' because again, they don't want to get rid of gender roles even if they think they're currently too oppressive.

I find that whenever I try to make these arguments most libfem/TRA/idPol supporters either get stuck in a mental loop of 'yeah but who are you to say someone can't decide their identity and that their sex is more materially important than their social role that they can totally decide on' or they start giving examples of how they don't think any of this started with the oppression of women. Libfems are deep in their 'femininity and submission/subservience isn't oppressive, it's empowering actually' BS so unless you're talking to someone who is already very GNC they won't get your argument that heels were meant to hobble and sexualize women or that eyeliner isn't actually Literal Armor that gives them succubus power over men. Lots of people are highly invested in this shit because they spent their whole lives upholding their roles and can't imagine not doing it, and also because the idea that you can tell people what to think of you and demand they see you the way you see yourself is very convenient for them. Normies don't want to be told 'you think you're smart but objectively you aren't' and they also don't want to be told 'you think wearing high heels and spending thousands of dollars on makeup and plastic surgery improves your life but it actually doesn't and is bad for you.'

No. 2045660

>>2045365
>One of my acquaintances even pointed out how I'm being hypocritical for getting on TIMs assaulting women in our spaces but ignoring the TIFs who enter men's spaces
Remind your friend that males commit 90% of violent crime and 95% of sex crimes. Most of the victims of sex crimes were female. These statistics were like this before a significant number of people started changing sex markers on official documents. Females are almost never a danger to males, whereas males are basically the number one threat to a woman's safety. Women shouldn't have to house men in their spaces because men are raping and assaulting each other.

No. 2045664

>>2045642
ayrt, I guess it would entirely depend on where you are in the world and your social class. I've had success with going to the bare bones of things, but the people I've been talking to are rural people in a non anglo-american country where the modern understanding of gender hasn't taken as much of a hold yet, and a lot of women issues are still seen through the lens of biology. Depressing stuff happening within the social layers of those who will become tomorrows cultural reproducers.

Still stand by the idea of listening to trans people though, and the unhinged things they say. Was making my way through new Redfem episodes today, and the most recent one mentioned how the british MP Angela Rayner had sung the praises of a TIM that once had his twitter name as "Savile's apprentice" or something like that. If all else fails, you can always count on them to tell you who they really are.

No. 2045665

>>2045429
If they're talking about how they're not "real" trans people, then bring up how concerning it is that men- DANGEROUS, women and child-raping men- are able to easily claim a "fake" transgender label, and use it to, again, rape, beat, and act perverted towards vulnerable people. You might want to look into the results of the gender self-id laws in Spain/Germany for some examples.

No. 2045686

>>2045660
Actually this might be a better strategy. Start with 'males do almost all violent crime' and then when your friends say 'omg but the troons that rape female inmates and little girls in bathrooms are just a tiny minority of all troons' ask them if they can come up with any examples of TIFs assaulting men in men's bathrooms or regular non-troon women committing bathroom rapes. Say you can go back and forth providing one example for each one they provide. If they start looking they will probably find it really difficult to find examples of TIFs assaulting men in men's bathrooms (or even women in women's bathrooms), then you should ask them why the 'women' are the ones committing all the crimes in this group when otherwise it's almost always men?

No. 2045688

>>2045664
AYRT and yeah I agree it highly depends on the social milieu you're in. Those bare bones things will usually work on people from somewhat more traditional cultures or people who aren't very 'on the internet.' People who are living and working in liberal western cities and have gone to western liberal colleges/spent a lot of time in college zoomer environments likely won't respond to those arguments very well though since they've been primed to reject the idea that biosex is important at all.

Listen to trans people is great if you can actually get people to do it, but I had very little luck directing people to r/MTF or whatever to actually see what TIMs say about themselves. If I went and found them screenshots myself they would claim I was 'cherry picking' or those were fake examples, but if I told them to look for themselves they would say they feel uncomfortable doing that or infringing on 'private' transfem spaces and would rather listen to what trans people want to tell them in news articles than what they talk about amongst themselves on reddit. You can always try to get them to read Andrea Long Chu though.

No. 2045690

>>2045665
NTA but personally this has never really worked for me. There's usually two counterarguments: 1. men who aren't trans wouldn't go that far, or if one very rare man occasionally does then he's an outlier and would likely do these things anyway and 2. I'm sure the law will take care of criminals. They just don't see the bigger picture.

No. 2045696

Sorry for vent but seeing an acquaintance rant on twitter about how some streamer said he doesn't believe in trans stuff. "people being trans have negatively impacted my life 0 times" yeah no shit you're a straight man. Trans people have negatively impacted my life in countless ways and continue to do so on the daily by invading females spaces and working to remove my sex based rights. The mental toll it takes to go into ANY fandom space now insane! I've never met a religious person who insists I pretend to be one of them "to be nice" yet trans people want me to have their exact nonsense beliefs or I should just go straight to jail for my wrong-think.

No. 2045977

>>2045696
Yes moids, we know you cape for other moids because their disgusting predatory behavior towards women doesn't personally affect you. News at 11

No. 2046000

>>2045665
AYRT and though I haven't tried this angle, I have a feeling that it won't really make a difference because after witnessing how quick they're able to disregard the things I've already brought up, I feel like they'll just respond in a similar way that >>2045690 shared. Most of these people refuse to see the bigger picture and think about the future that these actions will lead up to. I've even tried making some of them realize that all these self-ID laws is gonna set a hellscape for the children of the next generation and they still didn't seem to care much at all.

No. 2046002

>>2045589
>What's the subreddit nonna?
It was the old subreddit that got banned r/It'sAfetish
I also remember seeing another thread of this on 4chan but this was years ago.

No. 2046009

>>2045580
AYRT and I'll try your suggestion next time we have a discussion about this stuff. At most I've tried hyperlinking them to WomenAreHuman with the "crime" pinged on it but they still didn't want to read any of the incidents but maybe they'll at the very least see that these occurences are not as rare as they may think when they see them presented in a simpler list format. I think something that can make it hard to get these arguments across is that many of these blind TRAs are so focused on their own home-stretch. If there aren't many troon crimes being committed where one lives (which where I live, there aren't many), it makes these people really not care all that much and make it easier to disregard this argument and in turn, they won't realize the bigger reasoning on why these crimes should be taken seriously regardless where you live.

>If it helps I used to be one of those people who reacted 'oh no need to go down that rabbit hole' when I saw examples but I eventually came around, and this was back in 2015-2016 when there weren't as many examples. It is probably pointless to keep directly arguing with your friends but you planted a seed, and that seed may eventually sprout.

I hope you're right anon because it stinks being the only one you know IRL who does not believe and validate troonery.

No. 2046010

>>2046000
I'm the anon who mentioned the counterarguments people always use and I wanted to mention that it's also pretty funny that they use these arguments because it shows how deep they are in gender ideology and why they have such a hard time getting out of it. Sane women who know about male nature think 'a lot of what men do, especially violent/predatory men, is motivated by a deep desire to harm and dominate women, and men will go to great lengths to harm women for their fetish/power fantasy. This is part of why AGPs who don't even have dysphoria will go to great lengths like changing their birth certificate sex in order to get into women's bathrooms/change rooms. By the same token, non-AGP men who don't even like crossdressing with these proclivities will also go to equally great lengths to gain access to women's bathrooms and change rooms, up to and including changing the sex marker on their documents. If all you have to do is verbally tell someone I'm a woman, tons of predatory men will do that without putting any effort into even looking like a woman, because they can and their motivation is to be predatory.'

On the other hand TRAs will think 'AGPs must really feel and think they are women deep down, because gender is so deeply ingrained that they would not be able to claim they're women and dress as women and change their gender marker on their birth certificate if they weren't deeply convinced they're really women. This means that normal non-AGP men definitely, definitely would never do such a thing, or even verbally claim they're women, because they would feel so horrified and violated to have to deny their real gender that it would be basically impossible!'

What these people don't understand is that most people don't have such a deep and ingrained sense of gender that it would affect their other actions and motivations to that degree, and it's really no big deal (even to your average predatory 'cis' man) to just say he's a woman in order to get what he wants. Therefore they don't believe that it's possible that's what AGPs are doing either. This just demonstrates that it's hard to convince them with 'gender isn't real it's just stereotypes' arguments because they believe in deep, all-consuming gender roles so vehemently they find it inconceivable that someone could or would just lie about their gender. They think troons wouldn't, and they also think 'cis' men wouldn't.

No. 2046023

>>2045642
Pretty much all this. Unless you're talking to someone who knows at least the bare minimum of radical feminism, they just will not truly understand how gender stereotypes are actually oppressive and/or damaging. They're too socialized and haven't interacted with a different view enough to consider really thinking about certain gender norms

No. 2046024

>>2046009
Yeah the thing that really wowed me was just like a long list of hyperlinks (many of which had the headlines in the links because they were regular news stories from like local news sites), at first I didn't believe and clicked on some randomly thinking they were fake stories but I realized they were all real and there were so many of them. It's too bad it's hard to find good compilations like that now but I think psychologically being presented with a big list and told 'take your pick you can check out as many of these or as few of these as you want' feels less like you're being tricked or led down the garden path than having someone hand select the most horrifying stories and send them to you individually.

The other option is to just ask them 'if you think this is rare and has nothing to do with them being male, can you find me as many stories of trans men doing this?' That works especially well with the sports arguments, whenever someone says 'trans women don't have an advantage in sports, they win women's sports so rarely' I ask them to show me where any trans man has won a sports event against males. Oh, so that's what a thing that actually NEVER happens looks like? So what's the common denominator between predatory men and predatory transwomen that somehow excludes transmen?

If it makes you feel any better anon I was the first person to peak in my entire main social circle and at first I was actually super scared to even mention my views to anyone. When I did a lot of them acted anywhere from doubtful to full on thinking I was a bigot. But after several years many people in that friend group changed their mind and started admitting to me that they saw it too. I don't know if it will be the same with your friends or not, it depends on what they're like specifically but it might just take some time. It's already a good sign that they're not screeching at you and calling you a bigot and excommunicating you from their friend group, it means they probably think you are well meaning at least and might consider your points more seriously.

No. 2046027

>>2045660
AYRT I've actually tried mentioning this and they just shut me out saying "You shouldn't generalize men". Also they would say that statistics don't matter because it's not real life. I'm telling you, my friends are that deep in the denial of the facts and because they're handmaidens, they don't want to criticize men too much and they can't seem to separate class statement vs individual judgment and just default to "not all men".

>>2045686
I'll give your example a try, maybe my friends will play along and this can be a way to show them how TIFs are nowhere near a threat to others physically compared to the TIMs.

No. 2046030

>>2045696
I'm the anon who mentioned the gay friend and cusping troon brother and this is something my gay friend pointed out on how men, even gay men, can be very apathetic to our plight because they know that this stuff doesn't affect them and this is why it's hard for my gay friend to get other men, at least gay men (like his brother) to care more about this because they're not the ones getting the damaging blowback from trans ideology and/or they're the ones who fetishize femininity.

I feel you though anon, as someone who partakes in some fandoms, it can be an absolutely nightmare trying to be active in them when so many of them have been ensnared by troon fuckery.

No. 2046035

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kek

No. 2046037

You know what really sucks about this gender crap in America? It's the fact that even if you try to ignore the troon shit and try to save the real action for when it comes to legal matters, we are still fucked either way. The democrat party is all for troon rights that will decimate women's rights to our own spaces but it's also the party that supports certain women's rights like abortion as well as Lesbian & Gay rights. Meanwhile the conservative party is actively fighting against troon BS but they also want to abolish our reproductive rights as well as lesbian and gay rights.

It's like there's no great way to truly fight trans ideology with our vote and I don't see a democrat politician who doesn't support trans ideology.

No. 2046044

>>2046027
> they just shut me out saying "You shouldn't generalize men". Also they would say that statistics don't matter because it's not real life.
So they understand your point and know what you're saying but are just being disingenuous because reality makes them uncomfy. If they really didn't realize men were more violent they would be curious about these stats, not making excuses about them. But also
>don't generalize men
If you can't generalize men then how does a trans man know 'he' is a 'man'? Either there is something generalizable as a 'man' or there isn't, troonism makes no sense if you can't generalize by gender.

No. 2046048

>>2046027
Nona, just dump those friends and make better ones. They're not worth the trouble if they won't even hear you out and consider your opinion even when you bring actual facts.

No. 2046050

>>2046037
I think both the Dem and Rep parties in the US have benefited from holding the threat of taking away abortion rights over women's heads, Dems could have tried to create federal abortion laws decades ago but never even tried, instead getting state politicians to push more and more incendiary and unnecessary unpopular policies like 'late term' abortions to get the religious right riled up against them. As far as I know they still are not trying and are just going 'see what you did, Americans? You voted in trump and got Roe v Wade repealed, serves you right!' However I think with abortion being legal and normalized in almost every other modern country there is a good chance that the US will eventually get federal laws implemented allowing abortions one way or the other, I even think many Republicans would support and vote for this. I know 'it will probably happen soon' doesn't solve the issues women are experiencing right now, but I think it's hopeful.

On the other hand I am concerned that pushing through troon shit and laws explicitly removing women's sex-based rights as Democrats are doing right now may actually make it harder to campaign for women's reproductive rights, since you need women as a sex class to exist under the law in order to best fight for women's reproductive rights to be legally recognized. I know there are other angles that can be taken like medical privacy (what Roe v Wade was initially based on) but the Dems also made it very clear they are against medical privacy in the last 4 years and are weakening that angle. I find it unlikely that gay rights will be threatened by mainstream Republican politicians now, even Trump supports gay rights. Again the biggest threat to gay rights is TRAs themselves because they're turning public sentiment against the 'LGBT' with their antics.

Both US parties are absolutely fucked and do nothing good. But Dems might be more dangerous for women's rights at this current moment because they are starting middle eastern wars, mass importing immigrants from misogynistic countries and saying it's not a problem if non-citizens without ID vote, taking away the legal definition of women and sex-based rights from federal law, and even attacking medical privacy/autonomy to a greater degree than Republicans have while completely refusing to actively do anything federally about abortion. I think for women's rights in general many women might be better off not voting for democrats but moving to a blue or purple state that has robust abortion laws that aren't under attack if at all possible, although I know this opinion is likely unpopular here. At this rate the push for gender ideology (just 'men's rights' under a different name) is going to foment widespread hatred for feminism and gay rights and create a lot of reactionaries.

No. 2046052

>>2046048
That's what I would recommend too if her friends are as dumb and unwilling to listen as she makes them sound, but to be fair in certain environments (college environments, very liberal cities, arts circles) it feels almost impossible to find people who aren't this cucked by gender ideology.

I personally had some luck finding those people but I had to go semi-public with my views for a long time before my friends started confiding in me, and a lot of people are scared to openly say they don't believe in gendershit so even if they're around, how do you find them? I guess just by trying to be friends with the most absolutely apolitical normies who came from slightly more conservative countries or rural areas? People with too many general 'extrovert' hobbies to spend a lot of time on twitter?

No. 2046237

I'm so tired of dealing with narcissistic trans people. I'm just minding my own business and this one in a server I'm in starts begging for validation from everyone for his grotestesque selfies. Just post it and if people feel like commenting they will, jesus. It feels like he was trying to squeeze out compliments for himself out of people at gunpoint. I hate how these people always ruin any place I'm a part of with their bullshit

No. 2046258

>>2046027
>statistics don't matter because it's not real life
Wow your friends are… profoundly retarded. How are statistics "not real life?" Honestly, they're too stupid to even have this argument with. Maybe you should just drop the topic entirely with them if they're not even going to listen to actual data.

No. 2046303

>>2046237
Throw thinly veiled insults at him that he has to acknowledge. Like asking for a selfie without the hand covering his pretty little girl chin and neck. As long as you sound like a coddling simp you'll be fine.

No. 2046322

File: 1718208283467.jpg (765.81 KB, 1080x2340, 1000008608.jpg)

Why am I getting recommended gender videos with 4 views, I watch minecraft videos and let's plays. It's just a video of a guy injecting hrt into his leg. Is this a pride month thing?

No. 2046342

>>2046322
I think some algorithm "tags" are linked to others. "minecraft" is probably linked to HRT shit and autism videos. I watched one video to fix something in my BMW, and ended up getting andrew tate style influencers in my homepage next time I refreshed.

No. 2046390

I overheard the most disgusting conversation the other day hopefully this is the right place to bitch about it. my friend and i went into a smoke shop and the two troons working there were talking loudly about their top surgery. The one girl was saying something like "the pain wasn't bad, but the healing after surgery was gnarly. I kept smelling this horrible smell, and I hadn't brushed my teeth in like a week so I thought it was my breath. But then I finally brushed my teeth and the smell was still there, and I realized it was coming from my chest." I'm sorry I wish I was making this up. Joy and euphoria right

No. 2046397

>>2046390
I hate to admit this but I used to be glad these people mutilated themselves to the point of becoming sterile, but plenty of tifs only have top surgery and then start having kids with they super kweer husbands, it's simply depressing. Be careful while shopping there because you know sometimes they use T-gel and if they touch you/your things you can get second hand effects from it

No. 2046434

>>2046303
I mostly try to reply without it being obvious I'm not really supportive of trans stuff or that I think he's ugly or something just in case I get dogpiled, but yeah, I'll try that

No. 2046438

>>2046258
AYRT and yeah, I'm gonna try some of the other tactics that some other anons have suggested but if that doesn't work, fuck it, I can simply acknowledge that they are too retarded to have this discussion with. The "statistics aren't real life" thing is one they always slide into whenever I'm about to bring up numbers involving the crimes or certain observations like the AGP fetish stuff. I think it's just their cognitive dissonance about to kick in and they want to not engage with it lest I actually make some sense but I'm getting to a point now where my patience is borderline non-existent with people like this.

They say that statistics don't mean anything because it doesn't affect real life and then end with "not all trans" (not all men). And get this, they have the fucking gall to say that I'm just being bigoted and need to educate myself while they think they are so deep and profound. I hate talking ill of my friends but they're so fucking retarded with this topic that a little part of me dies inside when we discuss this and it makes me wish something that I could go back to like 2015/2016 when trans stuff wasn't such a highly public issue and you didn't hear much talk about it.

No. 2046439

>>2046397
NTAYRT but I'll be real here,I thought the same as well. I used to not care about these crazy fucks cutting up their body in the name of fake feels and shallow delusion-fueled vanity to the point that when I would hear stories about these "surgeries" going wrong, I would just giggle at it because it's like, what the fuck do these people expect will happen when they are cutting up their perfectly healthy bodies? I'm a little more sympathetic to a degree because some of these TIFs are being tricked when they are in high school but still, I can't help but feel a little deep that it's a sense of karma.

No. 2046440

>>2046048
AYRT and I feel like I might have to end up doing that because if they're that condescencding to me when I'm trying to speak up on something I believe in plus have the facts to back it up, who knows what else they may do. We were friends before the trans cray took over and met through fandom and we got along well until post 2017 and they became bleeding heart handmaidens for troons.

It's frustrating because they say that when I start getting passive aggressive after they shut down my arguments, they say I'm too emotional to have the talk and that it's clouding my judgment yet they're the ones who are being emotional. They always tends to go towards "well you don't know how that makes "her" feel" (when I call TIMs by he/him pronouns) or "TIMs need protection from men, they are scared and vulnerable" (when talking about the bathroom issue) and because I'm direct in saying that those things aren't our problem, they call me emotional.

No. 2046443

>>2046050
You raise some good points anon, I have a lot to think about on how I'm gonna vote this year. Part of me just feels like not voting at all tbh. I know congress is the one with the true power but look how they've been handling the repurposed men's rights already? Not great.

No. 2046562

>>2046048
AYRT and I wasn't even suggesting to vote at all, I think not voting is a legitimate option if you hate both candidates/parties. However you can still try to 'vote with your feet' by for example relocating to a state whose state politics you like more than other states (I know this is impossible for most people in the short term, it's just the most drastic long term example), by doing direct activism about an issue or sending letters to your own senators/congresspeople complaining that you will no longer vote for their party (if they're part of the party you normally vote for) unless they change X Y Z policy, or that you would consider voting for them if they considered supporting X Y Z policy (if they're a party you normally wouldn't vote for), even participating more in local and state elections rather than focusing on federal elections and try to do activism on that level. For example, currently for abortion in the US, there is more action happening around state laws than there is around the federal law so you might have more of an impact canvassing or volunteering for a cause or writing in to politicians on the state level. Saged because this is getting slightly off topic but I'd look around if there are any local radfem groups (or even cross-the-aisle feminist + conservative groups if you're comfortable with that) who are getting involved in canvassing for the restoration/protection of women's sex based rights and see if they have any ideas. Sometimes I got involved in things local radfem groups were organizing that were just like, all sending slight personalized variants on the same form letter about the trans issue. Your last option is if you have any personal experiences or know of a situation where troon activism is endangering others you can try to go to the media about it (even anonymously). Vote in local or regional news polls about sentiment on trans 'rights' issues if you can because polls shape opinion to some degree and politicians sometimes do care about the results of polling. Politicians are all basically psychopaths imo the higher up they go but I think when it comes to preserving women's rights and protections, politicians may drop it if they realize just how unpopular it is with the public. Normally I'd say 'don't bother because they don't care,' when they have their aims they're usually top down and not related to what the populace wants but I think it can be different for certain culture wars things because of how quickly people can become single issue voters about them (abortion is like this too imo, on the bright side… I don't think a majority of Americans actually want to get rid of abortion rights).

No. 2046626

>>2046438
>They say that statistics don't mean anything because it doesn't affect real life and then end with "not all trans" (not all men).
But who said anything about all of them? Even one man who legally gains access to women's shelters or prisons to rape women/children there is too many. Do they just think crimes don't count unless everyone commits them?

>makes me wish something that I could go back to like 2015/2016 when trans stuff wasn't such a highly public issue

This is interesting because I find it's the opposite. The peak of when I was hearing about trans shit and exposed to trans activism was around 2015-2018, and afterwards it seemed like the tide shifted a lot and people started to be much more trans critical or at least wary of them and their goals. Most of my irl friends are terfy now when they were trans supporting 5 years ago and I feel like news stories like Riley Gaines get more traction and sympathy now. It's interesting to hear that troon shit is picking up where you live, I wonder if it just peaked earlier in my area or if it seems like there's less of it to me because I'm older (? idk just assuming this might be the case) and most people adopt these views in college then drop them eventually?

No. 2046637

>>2046439
I have low sympathy for people who troon out as adults but I have a lot of sympathy for the female children that were pushed into this before they could even give informed consent.

>>2046440
Nonna after hearing more about your friends I really think you might have just outgrown them. I would find it maddening to try to talk to people about an issue that I care about/that directly affects me and have them constantly mocking me for being emotional while refusing to engage with any of my points, it doesn't really sound like they're acting respectful toward you. They care more about a random hypothetical TIM's feelings than yours?

No. 2047407

One fucked up thing I don't see get talked about with troon ideology is that it has forced girls in particular to deny their own sexuality. It's talked about in terms of lesbians being forced to be into girldick, but I never see the larger group of straight girls be brought up. They're told they're bigots if they even care "what's in someone pants" at all, and that if they like boys they must also be into all their tif friends larping as male. If the only reason they don't wanna date them is that they're trans they're evil bigots. They're told this from before puberty so even the non-troons aren't allowd to develop a healthy relationship to their sexuality - it really affects everyone.

No. 2047415

>>2044923
You said it wouldn't be possible but you included in your own response the situation where it could be. Lol.
Because something could be possible doesn't mean it will be possible or it's likely to be possible.
>>2044929
>>2044930
You're missing the point. I didn't say I want this to happen nor that we should put effort into this, only that it was possible. But when you're so furious about a topic you miss the point because you read one thing and think another. This is what the original argument was:
>I still don't think people can transition to another sex than the one they're born as because as I have stated, science hasn't advantaged enough to be able to change a person's chromosomes or give them functional genetic organs.

No. 2047442

I was with a friend the other day and we were going to use a public restroom where they had men's and women's. she loudly scoffed at the signs, said "WHY do they have these?! It doesn't matter!!!" and proceeded to use the mens room. I don't think we are going to be friends much longer.

No. 2047446

>>2046626
>This is interesting because I find it's the opposite. The peak of when I was hearing about trans shit and exposed to trans activism was around 2015-2018, and afterwards it seemed like the tide shifted a lot and people started to be much more trans critical or at least wary of them and their goals.
Yeah I feel this way too. I think around 2016 trans stuff was more niche (mainly a Tumblr/college campus problem) and since it was so niche most normies were much more chill about it and had a very "live and let live" stance, they hadn't been exposed to the full insanity yet. If I tried to talk to normal IRL people about the cotton ceiling or neogenders they thought it was a dumb online problem that would never impact the real world. And even online most criticism had an anti-SJW angle or a transmedicalist angle, there was no popular feminist criticism of gender ideology.

Now there's a lot more GC content on normie social media and it's slipping into the public. My family knows GC talking points from scrolling Facebook and Twitter and will repeat them when the subject comes up. Also the insanity is becoming more visible and peaking people, everyone knows about Lia Thomas and Dylan Mulvaney and most people are at least somewhat aware of the JK Rowling drama.

No. 2047484

>>2047442
I'm so sorry anon. Your friend most likely is a gender nutter. I also really hope your friend stops entering men's restrooms if this is a recurring thing that she does for the sake her own safety.

No. 2047490

>>2046637
>Nonna after hearing more about your friends I really think you might have just outgrown them. I would find it maddening to try to talk to people about an issue that I care about/that directly affects me and have them constantly mocking me for being emotional while refusing to engage with any of my points, it doesn't really sound like they're acting respectful toward you. They care more about a random hypothetical TIM's feelings than yours?
AYRT, I've been thinking more about this and I think you're right that maybe I have outgrown. We met through fandom years ago and we got on so well but ever since I learned about true feminism and how much of a danger trans ideology is to us and just overall society and then noticing how nonchalant and handmaiden my friends are with them not even trying to engage with my arguments that are facts-based, I just don't think I'll be able to maintain a friendship with them any longer.

I know that it's foolish to cut a friendship due to politics but this is something that really affects a majority half of the population that will only get worse if it doesn't get pushed back. I could try to look the other way if they kept it as simply preferring not to talk about it but it's them trying to gaslight me that I find very disrespectful and hurtful.

>They care more about a random hypothetical TIM's feelings than yours?

They really seem to because they think that TIMs are harmless and vulnerable and can get very snippy when I say the contrary. One thing that especially drove this home was when I said that a vulnerable TIM still has a much better chance defending himself against a male attacker than if it were a male assaulting a woman. I can acknowledge that some men can be vulnerable and I feel for them but I don't think that we (women) should be used as shields for them and that is something my friends don't agree with.

No. 2047505

>>2047484
she has definitely consumed the kool aid. Luckily they were single rooms where only one person could go at a time so it didn’t even really matter that much lol. I can’t see her going into an actual mens room with a bunch of stalls and men. I think she just wanted to screech and “make a point.” It’s disappointing to see people you thought had common sense fall into this shit

No. 2047551

>>2045023
>expressing authenticity
by pretending to be something she's not, surgically altering her body and throwing a fit if other people don't buy this faux persona.

No. 2047584

>>2047505
ntayrt but I have a friend like that. she's bisexual and gender non-conforming, and really buys into the false idea that transness = rejecting gender stereotypes instead of the reality that it reinforces them. she's generally pretty smart and anytime i gently question the logic she says "i know what you mean, yeah…." and can't really argue against it. But I honestly think she just enjoys the aesthetics - she just sees all this stuff as fun, she's also very "be kind" and liberal about anything to do with self-expression. She doesn't want to ruin her fun by thinking too much about the harms, sexism, stereotyping or even just the absence of logic.

it sucks sometimes but honestly she accepts my position and i accept hers and we manage to be good friends, so i appreciate that.

No. 2047634

I suspect that one of my friends is secretly turning into a fakeboi at her big age, but since we can't see each other irl anymore because of the distance I try not to think too much about it. She's obsessed with fandoms, we're both fujoshi and became friends because we liked the same video games, but I wish I never befriended her because the more time passed the worse she got. She'd rather be a shut in neet obsessing over FF14 than do anything else, and last time we had a conversation where she posted replies that were more than one word long she was complaining that her twitter followers would make a call out post about her because she likes a problematic shonen jump pairing. I wish I had normie friends sometimes. My other friends are just regular clueless but well meaning libfem TRAs so when the topic of trannies comes up it's irritating at best but at least it happens less often. I can't believe I'm saying this because it used to be the reverse but I can only escape this shit online now.

No. 2047682

My best friend in the whole world called a fat, balding, sexual assaulter t4t tranny friend of hers a 'gold star lesbian' in a conversation to me the other day and it makes me want to kms. Like, full-body disgust that someone I respect would say something so twisted. He wasn't even present.
She's very much a "let everyone just live!" variety of TRA, in addition she has a TIF younger sister so she's deep in the rot at this point. How the hell do I unfuck her brain? She can be very trusting but she's not stupid. She knows what a man is, she's been abused by men her whole life and so has her sister. It's really funny though because she accidentally misgenders her 'brother' all the time, so I know she can't be fully captured, right? I try to feed her little bits of info, like cracking misandrist jokes and emphasizing things that women can do that men can't and just generally being female positive, and most importantly I never, ever talk about trans rights/issues. I never bring them up at all so she has to know how I feel about this! I love her and I desperately want her to wake the fuck up. There's so much more, but I'm just venting into the wind because I know some of you understand. Thanks nonas.

No. 2047732

>>2047407
For a long time i understood straight TiFs dating each other as cases of lesbian until graduation. But you're right, the tumblrite professed horror for the Straights must have done a number on some girls. I remember that at the time i already found it a little strange and forced, noticing that actually gay men and lesbians would mostly idk, post about their interests, aesthetics and music/idols they liked. It was millenial straight people who were truly dedicated to screaming 'ew ew ew heteros!!' from the top of their lungs without a hint of humor or play on homophobia. It's extremely normal (and even expected) that young girls born after the 90s would find heterosexuality distressing and not want to engage with it due of the threat of being called a whore or treated like a sack of meat by porn-addicted teenage boys. Performative anti-het sentiment probably filled this uncomfortable, looming empty space in online discussions.

No. 2047754

>>2047682
I'm really sorry to hear this anon. I would tell you to cut her out but you both are best friends and if she knows how you feel about these things yet still talks to you, then she's not completely out of her mind. Have you tried showing her that those gross AGPs troons have completely taken over lesbian subs on reddit and also took over their dating apps? Maybe that might help get the point across.

No. 2047760

>>2047634
I'm sorry to hear this anon, I totally get preferring to have normie friends at this point as well which is so shitty to say because as I'm sure you can relate, we're all geeks/nerds ourselves, we love our fandoms in anime and video games but yet the geek community is one of the scenes that got hit the absolute worst with trans ideology.

No. 2047906

>>2047760
I relate to this too, I used to dislike normies but lately I'm kind of wishing I was friends with people who aren't into anime or other fandoms because everyone I meet in those are either sex pests, TRAs, become trannies themselves, or all 3. I've had like 3 or 4 friends troon out and I'm sick of seeing it happen and how they shove the tranny topic into fucking everything when I just want to discuss my autistic interests.

No. 2047959

>>2047906
I highly recommend branching out and making some normie friends by getting involved in some offline normie hobbies. I used to never think I’d be friends with people who collect guns or discuss who they voted for in the Republican primaries, but it’s so refreshing to be able to tell my (conservative) normie friends, “You wouldn’t believe it - I work with a man who’s pretending he’s a woman, and I’m supposed to act like I’m okay with him coming into the women’s bathroom with me! And if I complain about it I could get fired for being the bad guy!” and not have them immediately jump down my throat for being a horrible transphobic monster. I still keep some nerd friends who I can watch anime with, I just have to roll my eyes and keep my mouth shut every time they respect a genderspecial’s pronouns or say “JKR bad!”

No. 2047965

>>2047959
I recently got a job so I was thinking of trying to engage with my older, more normie co workers to try to see if that's better. Most of my hobbies outside of fandom end up being stuff genderspecials are into like art and I don't have many offline ones, but that does sound like it could help. I keep my mouth shut around the TRA types too but I seriously resent them every time especially when they're sucking tranny cock at every possible turn yet I don't have anyone else to discuss specific interests with so that sucks

No. 2048013

>>2047415
First AYRT and clearly you're not getting the sarcasm if you think that 'in a million years the human species as we know it might no longer exist' means the same thing as 'science will be able to change our chromosomes.' Science will not be able to do that.

No. 2048015

>>2047446
AYRT and yeah you make a good point about how when something is a niche college thing people just think they should accept it to be nice until it starts affecting them. But back then I also knew people (like my bisexual exgf I'm still very close with) who was like pretty terfy in most other ways but actually knew troons and was very like 'omg they're great! i would date a TIM! they're so nice!' but by like 2019 she was like 'anon I think I'm a TERF now… omg I can't stand these people they're so insane and they want to take gay rights and women's rights away.' So sometimes even people who were exposed to troons for a long time were accepting, until they'd had enough of it I guess.

I think even though it's not the most important aspect of troon degeneracy by far, the sports issue has peaked a huge number of people. Lots of normies are really into/care about sports and the rapidly increasing visibility of troons winning women's sports + testimonies of women harmed by them really opened a lot of people's eyes to the fact that TRAs will never stop if they're given the slightest leeway.

No. 2048017

>>2047959
>I highly recommend branching out and making some normie friends by getting involved in some offline normie hobbies.
It's easier said than done unfortunately. I don't have time for other hobbies these days and most events where I could meet random people my age tend to center around things that really don't interest me at all. Even then, I think the only normies who would be willing to hang out with me are from my ethnicity because of racism and they're mostly muslim, that's way worse than the friends I have who occasionally shit on JKR because they read a headline about her out of context. No way I'll even talk about this kind of topic with my coworkers or ex-coworkers I get along with because we work in HR, I don't want to ruin my career over that shit either.

By the way, I forgot to mention it but among my TRA friends, one of them used the good old "twaw, just like how black women are real women" even though she's black. Girl, trannies hate you and would call you racist and sexist slurs behind your back if they knew you! I struggled so hard to shut my mouth when that happened. She's not that stupid, I was shocked that she didn't understand the racist implications of that argument. Nobody in out friend group is white or perfectly feminine even though we're all straight (except for the borderline fakeboi who claims she's aromantic asexual and only attracted to her 2D husbandos) so you just know we'd make TIMs seethe by existing, yet she's the first to defend them.

No. 2048020

>>2047682
I'm sorry anon I had a similar experience with one of my 2 best friends who I'd been friends with for over a decade. I actually managed to somewhat convert her on trans issues organically (because she was lesbian and would mention these things making her uncomfortable) but since we stopped being friends she's gone full troon pandering again with a vengeance. Us not being friends anymore is kind of unrelated, but also related to the same 'I believe whatever the mainstream believes and think I'm so nice for protecting predators' mindset it just wasn't about troons specifically.

As with my ex friend I suspect your friend knows (everyone knows) that transgenderism isn't real if she even accidentally misgenders her sister, the question is will she actually act on her knowledge eventually or will she push herself further into cognitive dissonance to be 'nice' and feel good about herself like my friend did?

No. 2048025

>>2047906
Slow fading all my queer artiste liberal academia marxist larper friends was the best thing I've ever done for myself honestly. Not all my remaining friends are full normies but they're more normie-like in the sense that they have mostly offline hobbies interests and careers, aren't obsessed with partisan politics, don't spend much time on social media. You can meet people who have some weird interests and opinions and are not total normies but who still aren't plugged into the online borg/hivemind to the point of it becoming their whole personality and I think that's the best compromise I've found to have friends who I actually find interesting and still stay out of these unbearable online leftist communities.

That being said I went through some stuff in life recently that caused me to give a lot of actual run of the mill normie normie seeming people a chance and a lot of them are way more interesting than I thought. I know most people probably don't have hidden depths but I was surprised at how some of the people I know who have the most boring jobs and wear the most normal clothing and don't openly express having any 'weird' interests will actually have highly specific hobbies, strong opinions, sperg about really weird micro-interests in a fascinating way, etc. I wish I had given them a chance earlier instead of hanging out with liberal arts college hyperqueers thinking they were more 'interesting' when they're actually hyperconformist and get all their opinions straight from social media.

No. 2048032

>>2048017
>"twaw, just like how black women are real women" even though she's black.
Tragic. It never ceases to shock me how easily moids and moid movements seem to turn women against their own interests and kinship groups. Imagine putting yourself down like that all for some moid who's probably getting off to inflation bestiality porn of children's cartoon characters as we speak. I feel the same about women with PCOS/endo who start being like 'well I'm glad people accept me as a woman so we should accept men as women too.'

No. 2048045

>>2048017
Semi blogpost but it's so infuriating how nice libfem-ish women always have very little involvement with TiM culture (hobbies infested with them, etc) and don't know much about them. I have such friends who oscillate between TERF and TRA views. They ask hard questions, go through sudden mini-peaking when seeing blatant cases of predatory men trooning out but run to ask the one troon they know about what they should do/think. It's very strange, like they feel it's wrong but willingly offer themselves to their handlers. Otherwise, they act dumbfounded when me (and other acquaintances) point out how TiMs are almost always fetishistic and/or creepy when it comes to boundaries. It's so annoying because they're not stupid or so brainwashed, but they rely a lot on their naivety and the more i meet such women, the more i think it's a little on purpose. This is the kind of person who tries real hard to interpret every insane/perverted thing a troon says as revolutionary quirky feminism, and ask about other's opinions on the matter, unprompted. I've come to believe this is their way of averting their gaze from the obvious pattern. You get the sense that they are sick of queer bullshit but they seek external help to hold it in (why?). These women will have, at most, one pet troon friend or two, yet feel like they can confidently defend the whole demographic against criticism. Most of the time it's a HSTS or TiF but sometimes an AGP will worm his way in and it leads to incidents (like trying to fuck every single woman he knows and otherwise acting like a delusional moid, sperging out at the tiniest imaginary slight, and other things i won't describe to stay vague but let's say they could be seen as SA). I've had a couple run-ins with my almost-peaked friends and they can never take apart my arguments, only say it's transphobia and mean even if they 'get' TERFs. I'm thankful for the lack of witch-hunting on their part but still, it's irksome.

No. 2048753

I feel jealous of the people that are able to successfully trick themselves into believing in gender ideology. You get a built-in friend circle and topic to obsess over. It's like any lifestyle, you get a pleasant in-group to make your entire existence and have something to believe in. At the end of the day though, I cannot obliterate my brain enough to think lifestylists are anything other than cringe and gay, be they psytrance people, tradcaths, or trannies.

Of all the modern religions, though, I wish I could believe in the trannie religion the most.

No. 2048777

>>2048045
>libfem-ish women always have very little involvement with TiM culture (hobbies infested with them, etc) and don't know much about them
those are sadly the most supportive and the ones who think all trannies are simply long haired feminine flamboyant fags that wear shein with copious amounts of makeup and "pass". They have no idea about your average TiM being ugly, balding, and disgusting.

No. 2048779

>>2048032
>I feel the same about women with PCOS/endo who start being like 'well I'm glad people accept me as a woman so we should accept men as women too.'
I legit don't understand the reasoning behind them saying this. Like duh of course you're a woman even if you have endo or pcos. Like, how do you even dismantle an argument that retarded? legit question, because I would be so dumbfounded to even reply

No. 2048787

>>2048779
It's called being a doormat.

No. 2048819

>>2040231
This si why we need black people, women’s no black women in STEM. We should keep pushing the smart ones here until ally he trannies are flushed out and then trannies can live their dream crackwhore lives, just like ~*true women*~

No. 2048826

>>2048777
I feel like most of the women in my town are TERFs by default because the demographic around here is a bit older, so all the TIMs are 40+ pervert AGPs who look like obvious rapists and pedos. There is one regular I see in my local supermarket and he always wears fishnets, heels and a mini skirt, peaking every person he passes.

No. 2048829

>>2048826
>There is one regular I see in my local supermarket and he always wears fishnets, heels and a mini skirt, peaking every person he passes.
KEK

No. 2048892

>>2048777
this is so true, getting into tim-infested interests is what pushed me to peak

No. 2048920

>>2048779
they either have a horrendously poor understanding of their own body thanks to the insidious miseducation and brainwashing surrounding women's health or they are such massive pick-mes that they believe having medical conditions only women can get somehow makes them similar to men.

No. 2048994

>>2043907
Yeah in my experience many scientists will ago along with gender stuff in public to stay out of trouble but don’t actually believe it and don’t let it affect their research. I used to work in oncology research and when giving seminars for the wider student population we were supposed to say “people with cervices” instead of women when talking about cervical cancer, for example. But once the presenter’s off the podium she or he goes right back to saying women and female and of course no one was doing cervical cancer research with cell lines derived from male patients. Everyone knows what sex is, they just say what they have to say to avoid TRA students kicking up a fuss.

You’re spot on about the blacklisting. Most people don’t realise what a major factor networking and connections are in finding employment as a scientist. It’s a small world and people talk. Few universities will hire someone who’s been cancelled. They don’t want the headache of employing someone who the students will throw tantrums over. Industry might be a better bet but their HR is often very strict in filtering out people who they expect to be a potential liability. I know female whistleblowers (in sexual harassment cases mostly) who left their fields entirely because they couldn’t find employment anymore. Whistleblower protection only goes so far and it’s easy for employers to claim they were rejected for completely unrelated reasons because every position gets like >200 international applicants anyway. It’s very difficult to prove you’ve been blacklisted for being an uppity woman but it absolutely does happen.

>>2048045
The handmaidens who really baffle me are the ones who ARE into TIM-infested hobbies and still don’t peak. They often oscillate between defending the TIMs at the expense of their fellow women and, once a TIM has undeniably crossed the line, insisting that he’s not really a transgorl at all and akchully it harms REAL transgrills to even acknowledge that anything bad happened at all so better not talk about it and definitely don’t be more cautious next time! I’ve been watching this pattern play out in one hobby group for over a decade and while I suspect some long term members are cryptoterfs at this point, there are plenty of handmaidens who still haven’t learned. Even if they correctly identify the TIM right in front of them as a creepy incel in a wig, they’re so stuck on this concept of the mythical tr00trans that they stubbornly refuse to peak.

No. 2049031

>>2048994
Yep regarding the scientist thing that's always been my experience. There are a few scientists I know who fully believe in TRA shit after tying themselves in knots about clownfish and whatever (like Julia Serano) but the vast majority just pay lip service if someone is watching and otherwise don't. When I was running some human research I asked a bunch of fellow students/postdocs what the best approach is to people who put nonstandard 'genders' or the wrong sex on their paperwork and they all said 'oh let them write down what they want and just change it after they leave' lmao. The appraoch is basically just 'don't piss anyone off, but make sure the correct sex is recorded/used no matter what.' And yeah STEM especially academic STEM is almost entirely networking-based, you can't do well if you don't know people and most people are virtue-signaling so you gotta virtue signal too. It only takes one genderspecial in an entire department for everyone to start walking on eggshells most of the time.

NTA the second half of your post is responding to but I've been surprised that hobby groups with TIMs who undeniably get outed as serial rapists and perverts still don't even go down the 'he's not a real transgorl' route. I've been in communities where they say he's justified in being a serial rapist because he was 'exploring his gender' and 'things were hard for her*' and if women don't like it they themselves need to remove themselves from the community or shut up.

No. 2049144

>>2047906
Also wish I had more normie friends. I have some, but they aren't my best friends, but I'm trying to make more. I feel silly now for not wanting to have normie friends because they were "boring", but they have their own hobbies, interests, personality, but they just aren't fucking annoying about everything.
Before peaking I made friends with some TIFs and one gendie special dude. Now I peaked and I'm not sure what to do. The gendie dude isn't too bad since that's more of a work thing, the TIFs can be okay too, when they aren't talking about gender shit, it's not an issue. But once they go into their trans women are queens rants and gender is just made up (but at the same time you have to validate my very real gender identity?), it becomes annoying. I just ignore as best as I can and move on, not adding in additional commentary.

I know everyone will say to move on or whatever, but I don't want to be lonely or risk anything with my career. Plus, I'm afraid of the day I'd run into a TIM they're friends with. In a weird way, I wish I didn't peak since I could continue on as normal and not have to become more reserved with the people I befriend.

One thing that is good is I'm lucky none of my hobbies or interests really overlap with TIMs or any gender nonsense. I feel so sorry for any anons who like DND or anime. You guys have it rough.

No. 2049199

File: 1718399675601.png (2.3 MB, 1170x1979, kekwww.png)

I wonder if this stacy troll has a thread. Dunno if based for making trannies mad or cringe for wanting to larp as one.

No. 2049205

>>2049199
why does no one notice the obvious faceapp filter on her, like the ones that make you look younger. her eyes and top of head specifically are so pixelated

No. 2049210

>>2049199
KEK it's based because it only shows how trannies hate the idea of their spaces being invaded while they're pests invading women's spaces, if anything it's smart of her to do this kind of thing, a bit cringe because her face is on the internet but based of it's actually giving her a bunch of money.
Also, how gross is the moid even suggesting that she should be part of a porn category named "teen" disgusting as fuck, specially because she looks young, this only shows how moids are all a bunch of pedophiles.

No. 2049214

File: 1718400247574.jpeg (81.39 KB, 649x1024, GDGopLGXsAAy6-f.jpeg)

>>2049199
KEK I feel like this is kinda bad on one level because she's doing cringe sexwork/thotshit at the end of the day and 1000% men jerked off to her, but it made me laugh. the replies on twitter are so fucking triggered it's hilarious. "being trans is not a costume" yes it literally is this is not any different from the fucking linebacker moids putting on fake titties.

No. 2049215

>>2049210
>it's based because it only shows how trannies hate the idea of their spaces being invaded while they're pests invading women's spaces
^this
also stealing money/attention from trannies online is based

No. 2049217

>>2049199
Doesn't this girl do incest stuff? Maybe I'm confusing her, but her whole thing is that her family is molesting her

No. 2049218

>>2049214
>you're a woman with a dildo in her pants
that's extremely transphobic, samantha

No. 2049221

>>2049199
kek this is some kikomi shit

No. 2049231

File: 1718400932178.png (115.14 KB, 383x365, IMG_20240614_153256.png)

>>2049199
Forever laughing at this stupid ass ugly looking trannoid being like "leave us alone!!!" "we don't have the means to be a beautiful cis white teen like she is!!" Kek jealous much? Disgusting balding moid.

No. 2049243

>>2049199
>>2049214
Isn't this a man catfishing as a woman? At least that's what an anon said in the photoshop thread awhile ago, said it's a married straight man using a filter/shoop on the face

No. 2049255

File: 1718402103442.png (362.3 KB, 2550x692, Screenshot 2024-06-14 at 3.54.…)


No. 2049257

>>2049255
Lmao I knew I read it somewhere, Anons praising a male

No. 2049258

>>2049199
That looks like a tranny twink who put his pic through the little girl filter a couple times a la coconut kitty

No. 2049265

>>2049255
need more links. Zoe Moore is not the name on that account. Is lil_phoebee supposed to be the same as https://www.instagram.com/zooe.moore/ ? is it some kind of AI project by a man? tf? why are the trannies so triggered by it then?

No. 2049285

>>2049199
there's no way a real normie woman like that would cosplay as trans thats some degenerate shit

No. 2049341

File: 1718405419884.webp (22.2 KB, 513x500, man.jpg)

>>2049255
so a man pretending to be a woman pretending to be a man pretending to be a woman?

No. 2049362

File: 1718407008093.jpg (55.38 KB, 1000x500, improvise.jpg)

>>2049285
I was thinking more like picrel but I guess you're right

No. 2049379

File: 1718408007796.png (1.27 MB, 1280x1062, transsexualism.png)

>>2049214
>>2049243
I swear i've seen an actual female OF model do this a while ago. Maybe whoever is generating the AI is getting off on the idea of being a woman pretending to be a troon, as part of his fetish (and male competition). Incredible

Reading an old-ish (Transsexualism by Chiland, 1997) psych book about trans, pretty entertaining (very familiar portraits of TiMs/TiFs) and enlightening. Talks about how stupid masculine/feminine essence is, men's envy of women and women's 'penis envy' (a wish to have all the benefits that comes with a penis) and it somewhat predicts ROGD. It also features an interesting critique of the medical establishment. I put some examples in picrel but i especially wanted to discuss this quote:
>Transsexuals stage everything in the theatre of the body and nothing in that of the psyche.
I like it because it really sums up troon derangement and its relation to narcissism. Whether it's about self-hating homosexuals who set to 'fix' themselves, AGPs who think they can become self-sufficient (when they are disordered) and fly into rage fits, ROGD girls who run away from mental anguish by blaming it on 'the wrong body'… You could switch 'Transsexuals' with 'Narcissists' and it's be just as accurate. People who struggle with narcissism (in a broad, psych way, not in a 'toxic abusive manipulator' way) have extremely fragile egos and often compensate by taking great care of their bodies. Think about the American Psycho shower scene. They engage in big displays of how much they love their perfect image (achievements, gym body, trans identity) because they don't have a baseline sense of contentment with themselves. Not all troons are narcissitic but all of them 'mimic' it by employing the same tactic, a flight from an uncomfortable mental fact and a flight from a psychic resolution. Whether it's bitterness and a wish to have all the things afforded to men (respect, admiration, a claim to objectivity) or a raging fetish that's incongruent with their appearance, it's always about denying their inner lives for a purely bodily solution. Which is why they love to say TERFs are reductionnists, it's a projection. Honest, difficult self-reflection is a troon's worst enemy. An entire industry of 'trans positive' therapists and doctors exists to give them a simulacra of therapy and 'care' while never striking the central nerve. It's honestly amazing how doctors are capable of lying to themselves and their patients despite their training

No. 2049422

>>2047959
I have no desire to interact with republicans so i guess my nerdy habits will just stay in the closet

No. 2049423

>>2049422
You can try to be friends with non-republican normies too nona

No. 2049429

>>2049285
ewhores do worse. Cosplaying as a tranny is nothing considering shayna is out there putting fireworks in her pussy and sitting on cake for the price of a cheeseburger.

No. 2049431

>>2049422
Nta but I have liberal friends who hate trannies and think it's all bullshit just as much as I do.

No. 2049511

>>2049429
That woman looks like a total functional normie. Shayna is a goblin. Not a fair comparison.

No. 2049576

I'm so sick of having to keep my mouth shut to keep the peace while they spew their shit. I had to smile and nod along today as a tranny told me how his estrogen makes him basically intersex and therefore he's identical to an infertile "cis" woman with PCOS now. He told me he's learning to cook and clean because he's excited to "become a dumb little housewife one day". delusions dripping in misogyny and I have to pretend to think it's normal or I could lose my entire social life o i am laffin

No. 2049615

>>2049576
Tell him women with PCOS aren't infertile lmao. If he was 'just like women with PCOS' he should know that.

No. 2049687

>>2049576
What you do is you nod and look disinterested while they're around for your own safety, then the second they're gone you discuss and tell everyone else around how fucking stupid and misogynostic he is, using his own words. Even if the others around you are woke just saying something like "to become a dumb little housewife one day? that's the dumbest misogynistic shit I've heard all day" that way you don't attack the "being trans" part but still make it clear what he is saying is fucked up. Chances are others are hiding their true gc views too, if not at least you plant a seed of peaking in them.

No. 2049690

>>2049255
honestly don't care if it's a man, woman or ai if it makes troons seethe in anger

No. 2049697

I genuinely don't understand how girls who do OF and the like aren't peaking enne masse. I've worked as a phone sex operator for the last few years now out of necessity and let me tell you, these men are saying all the things they don't say in public. I'm a domme and pretty much every second guy I talk to is a closet sissy, or wears women's lingerie to get off at the least. I've spoken to moids who tell me they want to transition, some who already have, all born from a fetish. It's what initially peaked me and got me out of my libfem phase, unfortunately I've just had to stick around doing this.

I had this one troon who was obsessed with me for months. He'd talk about his ex gf to me, trauma dump on me, kept "joking" for me to move to his country. He sent me a photo of himself early on, think lilly cantino or whatever his name is, so very obviously male. At one point on a call he spends ages working up the courage to tell me "something" and when he finally lets it out, he tells me he's trans. Without even thinking (I'd peaked by this point) I was like "oh yeah, I know". Kek. Had to walk that one back saying I have a good intuition for these things because he was genuinely sooooo surprised I could tell. In case you're wondering (I'm sure you arent) he was mostly into sucking my toes in stockings. It's always stockings, pantihose, etc. Things ended between us when he asked me to be his girlfriend and move for realises and I was like lol no??? And he softly wept and thanked me for all the beautiful moments we shared before hanging up.

He was unfortunately the nicest of them, but even the nicest have the most delusional and misogynistic takes. I once asked a guy why he liked to become a woman when describing these degrading scenarios, and he said he doesn't really see himself as a woman, just a failed "creature", inhuman. Inhuman while wearing women's clothing, makeup, and acting out fantasies performed by porn actresses. None of them, I can tell you, see the cognitive dissonance in their interests and fantasies. This sentiment (the not quite male, not quite female) is something I've heard more than once. I hear it pretty often, actually. Even from men who like to be referred to as a "girl".

Trust me when I say it's vile typing this out, and it's unfortunately my day to day. What I'll say with absolute certainty is you'd have to be so completely brainwashed and consumed by patriarchy to not "work" in this industry and not start to hate troons eventually.

No. 2049713

>>2049379
I need to check out this book, very fascinating.

No. 2049715

>>2049697
I hate this world. Why couldn’t I be born in another universe

No. 2049762

>>2049697
Kinda hilarious knowing that one TIM probably perceived your relationship as a beautiful bittersweet queer experience while it was just an unpleasant job to you. The self absorbed male egotism of it is so classic

No. 2049763

>>2049697
Girl there is no way dealing with that shit is the only way you can make money.

No. 2049804

>>2049697
How did you get this job and does it pay well

No. 2049817

>>2049379
This sounds really interesting! When you talk about the narcissism and fragile ego it makes so much more sense when every trans person I've met either has a BPD diagnosis or could easily get one. The severely fractured sense of self, the quick shifting ideas of who they are/should be, threats of suicide, projecting whats undesirable in them onto others, constantly moving goal posts, and so on.

No. 2049888

>>2049763
I work two jobs and this is just one of them. Chronic health issues prevent me working on my feet too long. Hoping to start studying something soon though, so it won't be forever.

>>2049804
I'm not going to give you advice on this kek, it's not worth getting into. I make okay money but I've been doing it a while and have regulars. This "work" will break you, and if you aren't already black pilled on men you will be doing this. I've had some men say disgusting and depraved things, and often see men in sissy outfits, wearing their wife's/girlfriends lingerie, men eating their own cum, putting all sorts of items in all sorts of areas. The only fun thing I do is making men beat themselves, but you don't get it that much anymore
On that last point, I will say the amount of men into crossdressing/tranny shit has increased exponentially in the last few years. If they aren't already into it they do get into it eventually and it's terrifying. I've had moids who weren't originally into that stuff become addicted. It's honestly fucked.

No. 2049901

I do wonder nonnas, in your country which percentage of hsts or agp that you commonly see? I’ve never heard of the term agp until I joined lolcow. At least where I’m from, they are exclusively hsts and I almost never see agp walking around in my country.

No. 2049939

>>2049901
where are you from nona? in the uk it's mostly AGPs, by far. But as I understand, in certain countries it's mostly restricted to sex worker HSTS.

No. 2049972

>>2049901
90-95% are obvious AGPs. I knew one HSTS and I've met/seen a couple who seemed HSTS in passing. I'm not kidding when I say I see at least 1-2 AGPs every single time I leave my house for more than 5 minutes, they are everywhere.

No. 2049986

>>2049255
The person's name is zoe whilst the posts are from someone calling themselves Phoebe. They pic attached also doesn't look like the Phoebe pics.

No. 2049994

>>2049576
Today I learned, having a painful period (I know endo is more than that but you get the point) means being trans…
Always when someone says (men), they cannot fathom how periods fell, I tell them, I am open to kick them repeatedly in the stomach, so they get a feeling for it.

No. 2050003

>>2049576
god, I feel you. I'm not the type of person who can keep my mouth shut for long or be "fake" so this shit really gets to me. I have the exact same problem with how this tranny I know keeps saying retarded shit about how taking HRT is making him a weak little girl or how he needs a bra for his big boobies now. I genuinely just feel like this is mental illness and like I'm being forced to stay in some sort of asylum with a crazy person and everyone just cheers him on and I can't say anything because sanity is bigoted. it's maddening
>>2049697
this sounds so horrible, holy shit.
>He was unfortunately the nicest of them, but even the nicest have the most delusional and misogynistic takes.
this sums up every man I've ever known
>>2049901
Being in anime fandoms for my country I've only ever seen AGPs

No. 2050013

>>2050003
What are the situations in which you nonnas are forced to listen to troons saying this stuff to you? Is it like a work situation? Can you complain to a manager that your coworker is oversharing about personal/health matters and it makes you feel uncomfortable because you don't like to talk about people's personal lives and medical issues at work? IDK how I would even manage that I literally can't/don't tolerate troons oversharing about this stuff with me anymore.

No. 2050015

>>2050013
in my case it's having friend groups and then someone ends up trooning out and it's basically like I either tolerate this or I lose my entire friend group (of other people I actually like). you could say oh just get other friends but it isn't really that easy especially if you aren't extroverted or don't have an easy time making friends to begin with. they also do know where I work so that's another concern (that they'd try to ruin me over my views if it got out).

No. 2050030

File: 1718467227020.jpg (32.95 KB, 640x480, sddefault.jpg)

I'm watching The Blacklist (I know) and they just had the oldest, grossest tranny. He felt "seen from the third century BC" by a Sappho poem. He of course received it as a gift so he could cherish it "every day, twice a day."

No. 2050032

>>2049901
~70-80% AGP. There's a decent crop of HSTS in big cities but it depends on where you look.

>>2050003
I get that shit from AGP moids (outside of work) and i always go 'How curious! I've been 'on estrogen' for many years now and i don't deal with what you're describing. I don't know such women either, how funny is that' and it embarrasses them, they mumble something about their feminine essence and don't bring it up again. But i'm not sure it'd work on your coworker because bringing this up at work is already really unhinged

>>2049697
Thank you for the post, the 'inhuman failed thing' part is really disturbing but not surprising. I really hope you get out of this ASAP.
On the subject of phone sex, i knew that dommes were very common in that line of work (since there's no contact involved) but it used to be that 'full service' prostitutes only dealt with autogynephiles when they were at the end of their career or deemed 'undesirable' because of the toll the job took on them (at least in my country). It's pretty horrible because the implication is 'well now that you're discarded you get the repulsive loonies' but i feel the AGP cancer is so common nowadays that dealing with them is pretty much normal and expected from the get go, everywhere

No. 2050044

>>2050032
Yeah when I've dealt with AGPs in social settings recently I try not to be ultra outwardly rude toward them if they're friends with some of my other friends (thankfully most of my friends started peaking so most of them don't hang out with AGPs anymore thank god). But I don't really humor them either. When they start talking about their womanliness I just act uninterested/confused, say I can't relate or 'that's weird' and try to avoid them talking to me by acting completely uninterested in what they have to say. Sometimes you can also get them on the defensive because they often start talking about issues of other minorities they're not part of and you can call them out on it and they will get defensive or embarrassed. I don't use preferred pronouns anymore (haven't for many years) but that isn't as relevant to direct interactions with troons since you don't use third person pronouns to their faces, so you have to be a bit more subtle about the fact you consider them LARPers, but usually you can do it in a way that will shut them down and make them avoid you without completely giving away that you are a 'terf.'

No. 2050131

i'm tired of people calling that nemo dude from eurovision they/them like yes let's all collectively pretend like we don't see that he's a grown man with dick and balls

No. 2050137

>>2049199
Since TIMs are now out in the internet as men girls are looking for a new flavor of man to cosplay

No. 2050148

>>2049901
i mostly just seen troons passing me in the street so it's hard to tell at a glance but i would say mostly. insterestingly a lot of them were stick thin, not just normal skinny guys but like ED level shit.
otoh my mother works in a field that attracts flamboyant gay men and shes seen even some older ones falling for the troon shit. it's a plague

No. 2050161

>>2050131
we have to pretend that he is the first straight male performer to ever wear a skirt. he is very special and DiFfErEnT.

No. 2050173

>>2049901
>in your country which percentage of hsts or agp that you commonly see? I’ve never heard of the term agp until I joined lolcow. At least where I’m from, they are exclusively hsts and I almost never see agp walking around in my country.
They're not mutually exclusive. Dylan Mulvaney is a very obvious HSTS and AGP at the same time.
I think a lot of anons here have had personal experiences with the misfortune of knowing a nice transwoman, one who seemed to just be a shy closeted gay and/or autist, who seemed genuinely sweet and innocent, one that made you think users on LC were a bit too mean because clearly this guy was really suffering - only for it to slowly be revealed that he was super into the most degenerate shit behind closed doors, and the illusion cracked.

No. 2050175

>>2050131
i straight up just call him a man and he/him and i've only been "corrected" twice, both times online from randoms. not a single person i actually know has even reacted to it

No. 2050204

Was at a Chinese market and there was this horrible hulking troon wearing an ill fitting qi pao that he obviously altered to look sexualized (though it didn't work on his male body), with fried hair and shitty eyeliner was prowling the aisles, trying to look dainty while he bent down to look at products. I thought I was hallucinating because I've never seen a TIM like this where I'm from and truly didn't expect him to be so on the nose with stereotypes. When he complimented this woman's aliexpress dress in a screechy fake voice I almost burst out laughing like damn. We're really letting these beasts take over our laws…

No. 2050210

>>2050204
Is he Asian or some other race?

No. 2050213

>>2050210
He was fucking white lmfaoooo

No. 2050217

What do you think of troons who skinwalk (surprisingly) a person of their gender at birth? TIMs who copy men/TIFs who copy women instead of the expected stereotype TIM mimicking women/TIF mimicking men?

No. 2050226

>>2050213
Damn, being a troon and even culture appropriation. Who’s willing to bet he has an asian fetish?

No. 2050310

>>2050234
chinatowns and chinese markets attract troons and cosplayers (two groups with high overlap) in general, whenever I go to my city's chinatown there's tons of them

No. 2050357

>>2042688
I agree that its just a meme, I see loser big name funnymen lefties on tumblr and twitter writing absolute fanfiction about how every terf they encounter goes through a long night of the soul and comes out the other end a Catholic conservative. These posts get a ton of attention, but even before I peaked it read as complete posturing to me. You're telling me a significant portion of radfems you interacted with online from your blog that likes to bait radfems went on this path, and you saw it happen in real time?
I will say if you don't take your dose of grass touching, radfem spaces can get you into your head about how fucked you are. When I shifted from liberal feminism to a deeper feminist analysis, I was still pretty young and prone to catastrophizing. It's important to take stock of the things you do have going for you, the benefits of being female, and what you can do going forward to be more materially independent. And you should make a point to make friends with feminist women who you can have conversations with that don't totally revolve around gender issues.
Obviously I welcome anyone peaking, but when I see feminists start spiraling over awful news stories and depressing statistics I think its important to remember that you as a woman being miserable is no win for the movement. Don't seek out brutal news stories or pick fights with incels online if its becoming a form of self harm.

No. 2050366

>>2050357
I was raised in an extremely traditionally catholic family and even when I was growing up my family did not have the same level of 'trad' expectations on women as the current 'tradwife' memes expect. I also grew up being atheist myself and my family didn't pressure me too much to convert to catholicism, I went through a semi-libfem phase and a radfem phase and I never converted to catholicism the whole time. I did end up coming out of my time heavily participating in radfem communities deciding I am not quite a 'radfem' either but I'm in no way trad, I just think (like you pointed out) that radical feminism can be a little blackpilling and make you feel like women are completely fucked and I also think some of the analysis by radfems of certain areas of gender ideology is a little bit simplistic (like the idea that everything would be okay if we abolished gender entirely, or the extreme lean toward marxist concepts). Zero of the women I knew who peaked irl turned into trad wife types, and for those online that did I think many of them were pretty naive and susceptible to cultish thinking in the first place. I do think online radfems sometimes go too far in alienating women and pushing them toward more conservative views when they vilify heterosexuality to such a great degree and scream at everyone that their brothers and fathers and sons are all pornsick rapists or make a huge deal out of how evil and submissive it is to wear a skirt or something, but most 'radfem' online communities seem to have loosened up a bit about this recently so I really don't think the rad to trad pipeline is much of a risk for most women.

No. 2050383

File: 1718484568768.jpeg (352.69 KB, 1077x1604, 08344BC3-524D-4A60-8F57-57CC60…)

Just saw a tif with an abnormally feminine fat distribution. Built like a mother of 12 who can give birth in less than an hour

No. 2050388

>>2050383
That image kek but one of the ex-TIFs I was friends with had this exact body type, going around wearing little boys shirts and XL adult male pants cuffed 6+ times. Lady you aren't fooling anyone

No. 2050408

>>2049901
It used to be all hsts here, but now the overwhelming majority is agps in my experience.

No. 2050417

>>2050383
This image and watching TIFs pour their looks down the drain to chase their psychosis is exactly why I don't understand some lesbians and bifags being attracted to them. They're mentally ill to the point of thinking that they're scrotes, and 90% either botch the fuck out of themselves, or let themselves go into being straight up ugly to look at.

No. 2050418

File: 1718486301505.jpg (217.07 KB, 720x1147, IMG_20240616_000932.jpg)

>mustache coming in nicely after 1 year of testosterone!

No. 2050420

>>2050418
Might as well give up

No. 2050424

>>2050383
Honestly it makes sense. If they have a body type that scrotes are the most attracted to, they probably want to escape the attention by mutilating themselves.

No. 2050429

>>2050418
Lol your average non-troon woman has this, how delusional can you be.

No. 2050432

>>2050424
NTAYRT but I'm the anon below who said I knew a TIF like this, and she didn't get much scrote attention (she wasn't conventionally attractive, was somewhat fat in a pear shaped way and was very obviously lesbian looking). None of her stated reasons for wanting to transition had to do with scrote attention, it had to do with wanting more attention from shitty bihet women and thinking she was 'masculine' in personality/intrinsic nature.

No. 2050433

>>2050418
I could easily mog this woman with my moustache and I don't even have pcos, why do women who clearly don't want to experience hormonal side effects go on T? Is the twans label so worth it?

No. 2050435

>>2050418
I have more facial hair naturally damn

No. 2050436

File: 1718486910377.mp4 (1.08 MB, 360x640, RDT_20240616_002319.mp4)

>>2050418
What's the point of giving yourself osteoporosis just to have a raspier voice? You could've just picked up smoking… she apparently got the tit chop too.

No. 2050437

>>2050436
>takes T to get slightly raspier sounding obviously female voice
>keeps conventionally attractive dyed blonde female-typical medium-long butterfly haircut and overplucked brows
yeah you're really doing the most to pass as a man

No. 2050439

>>2050436
She doesn't look like the typical tif. I would've thought she'd be one of those tiktok girls

No. 2050443

>>2050439
She's a stoner/lsd enjoyer and refers to herself as "that girl".. probably not in her right mind

No. 2050457

>>2050213
Of course, he was. The nerve.

No. 2050474

there’s a group chat i’m in, and it’s all women EXCEPT for this one random friend of friend person who is of fucking course a tif. she always bursts with random pics, share her hideous “trans oc” art and complains about most random stuff ever, paying little to no attention to the conversation in the chat. but that’s just part of the problem. today one of the girls shared an actual traumatic experience, where she was walking peacefully in the park and some fucking creep followed her around spewing bullshit and screaming at her, trying to touch her arm, etc. all the girls were sympathetic, of course, except from her. she only replied because one of the girls said “oh god i wish all men died”. lmao, she was so triggered, like “HEY i’m a man too”. no sympathy to the story whatsoever, no self awareness, just blatant ignorance. god this is so fucking stupid how others are STILL tolerant towards this person. because the reply she got was: “oh nooo please i’m so sorry you’re literally sooo different, not like other men”. i want to pull my eyes from my skull, SPARE me.

No. 2050544

>>2037097
>>2050436
Somewhat relatedMy tinfoil is that the “gender dysphoria” most tifs experience is just wanting to be skinny. All the things they list as gender euphoric, like being flat, having a muscular or toned tummy, having “veiny” lanky hands, are all just traits of being a skinny as a woman. Like vidrel 99% of TIFS are obese or chubby. Also statistically TIFS are more prone to disordered eating. I don’t believe in fem brain or man brain because that’s retarded but ironically all of the things I just listed about TIFS is very fem brained, if we’re gonna go by their logic. Blog but My school has a lot of tifs and they’re all flabby or obese and show off their Ana chan behavior, but to them it’s being a kewl sexy troubled emo boi who only drinks monsters, but are still fat so they probably are in self hating binge restrict cycles. Many such cases.

No. 2050557

>>2050544
I've had this thought too nonna. I think the overlap between EDs and TIFfery is worth noting. But now therapists aren't allowed to question whether a girl/woman has an ED if she says it's a gender issue.

No. 2050622

>>2050557
When I went to therapy for gender dysphoria, my counselor told me that my past eating disorder was a symptom of the dysphoria (I didn't even suggest that it was a gender issue). Same thing with the psychiatrist who evaluated me as a good candidate for hrt. It didn't sound right but I was a dumbass and didn't push back against their assessment because I thought that these people were professionals who knew what they were doing.

No. 2050630

>>2050622
Yeah sorry I'm sure you've realized it since then but a large number of therapists (especially genderwoo therapists) are only 'professionals' because they got a pointless degree and don't know anything about your state of mind more than what you yourself know. They are even more susceptible to seeing your mental state as part of a wider 'trend' than you are because they educate themselves based on trends. It is now 'trendy' to see women with body issues as having gender issues even when their issues are just run of the mill female problems with their own bodies. Hope you got out before you hurt yourself too much nonna.

No. 2050755

Sage for asking for specific resources but do any nonas have any literature/info about gender nonconformity in relation to intersexual conditions? I guess technically I am still a TIF and grew up with an abnormal hormonal profile that multiple doctors thought might have been PCOS related but was never looked into, and recently I went in for an ultrasound of my cervix to get a hysterectomy and without getting into personal medical details it turned out I am intersex. This experience has peaked me entirely, I’ve always been averse to and unsupportive of trans people in general apart from taking advantage of TRA rhetoric for my own personal gain medically but this really has made me doubt the plausibility of any trans people at all given that I have never been able to understand my compulsion to transition (I hate trannies and have functionally been a crypto radfem/anti-TRA for as long as I have been “openly trans” & have consistently dissuaded the women in my personal life from giving any trannies the benefit of the doubt) but now I know I have some form of biological incentive to have that drive/urge and I want to better understand it

No. 2050764

>>2050755
I can't point you to anything specific but use google scholar or pubmed.ncbi to look up articles on intersex condition or go on zlib to get a basic genetics/endocrinology textbook that discusses intersex conditions.

PCOS is not an intersex condition by the way, but if you are intersex my best advice is to look up the specific condition you've been diagnosed with on google scholar or pubmed. If you're comfortable sharing your specific condition I might be able to find more specifically relevant literature but intersex conditions vary and their effects vary.

No. 2050806

>>2050764
I haven’t been diagnosed with any specific condition to my knowledge, just sent for further imaging by my urologist and told I have a prostate and undescended testes and that that “indicates the presence of an intersex condition”. I was referred for karotype testing but haven’t booked the appointment yet because I’m trying to work out insurance logistics or if it’s even worth pursuing because it hasn’t impacted my health (knock on wood). This whole experience has just been surreal. Also I’m not sure why gendies are so insistent PCOS is an intersex condition but i am aware it isn’t one. Sorry for blogging a bit nona i haven’t really been able to have an outlet for any of this because it’s such a medicalized situation and also incredibly recent for me, and anyone I know with any medical knowledge who I could try to converse with about it is so swallowed by gendie dogma that I think they would think I’m trying to underhandedly delegitimize trannies we mutually know rather than being able to talk at face value

No. 2050831

>>2050806
So you are probably one of the male (strictly speaking) intersex conditions that doesn't respond to hormones like CAIS. I don't know enough about specific intersex conditions to give you resources but I would start there. If you have female phenotype but undescended testes you most likely have XY chromosomes or the SRY gene but no ability to process male sex hormones in order to virilize your body. I'm not sure how much this would contribute to 'gender feels' personally as I have never been there but I assume you received female socialization? So I would guess that from a social perspective you were raised female. From an objective perspective this will likely affect your ability to have children in the sense that you likely can't have your own biological children. ** sorry changed PAIS to CAIS

No. 2050833

>>2050806
I would suggest you do the karyotype testing regardeless. Idk if you have ever read about the 46, xy intersex? People with male karyotype but female (outer) phenotype. It can have different causes, mostly common is a testosterone insensitivity. That means your body produces testest. but doesn't react to it as expected. If that is the case, it may affect your health in longterm (idk, I have no expertise), since you have a prostate and therefore probably a risk associated with it for cancer???
You really should take care about your health.
A lot of people with this condition feel totally fine as women, they grew up as women, feel like a women, behave like women etc.

No. 2050837

>>2050833
46, XY intersex usually are phenotypically male (Caster Semenya and other athletes) and would know they were male/considered to be male from birth especially in modern societies. Since nonna above seems surprised by this it's likely not 46, XY condition that tends to be phenotypically male unless it's an extreme case with total testosterone insensitivity (which is unusual).

No. 2050838

>>2050755
>>2050806
Nonna so you were born intersex, grew up female, but then decided to transition into male? How do you feel? Do you feel like you "fit in" with males better? Do you think it's because you're intersex?

No. 2050846

>>2050837
I am subscribed to a YTer who has this condition and she looks and sounds perfectly female. I didn't know until she talked about it in some video that she won't be able to have kids of her own. She found out because she went to the gyn after not getting her period as a teen. She is very tall, curvy and had to have a breast reduction. Her face is feminine, so is her voice. Not every xy intersex shows male traits. And testosterone insensitivity is not always the cause.

No. 2050850

File: 1718506676823.jpg (311.33 KB, 1080x1920, 1000032983.jpg)

Kek, what is this? What does queer even means?

No. 2050881

>>2050850
kek I noticed zoomers do this a lot. If they like something, or it's not mainstream, it's "queer". but as a lolita I get what she means. If you're into girly fashion or wear long skirts, sometimes people will think you're dressing modest for religious reasons

No. 2050885

>>2050846
She's most likely 46,XY without sensitivity to testosterone then which is possible, but usually 46, XY conditions are testosterone sensitive. A lot of the moid athletes in women's sports have this and are phenotypically male.

No. 2050890

>>2050881
that's why I avoid cross themes on my lolita like the plague. I wish I could wear them because I prefer gothic and classical but I don't like being viewed as a christian. people are pretty non religious here so wearing as a cross publically would pretty much brand me as someone very religious.

No. 2050898

>>2050890
I worry about that too but wear them anyways since goths have been borrowing christian aesthetics for ages. I live in a fairly religious place but it hasn't caused any awkward conversations yet, plenty of people wear rosaries or cross jewelry so it doesn't stand out. I also wear a lot of stained glass/angel motifs which the christian old ladies always compliment, I think it's cute

No. 2050899

>>2050890
What if you turned them upside down?

No. 2050903

>>2050898
that's fair but I guess it's because I have some religious trauma. I'm not even close or see my family anymore but I feel like they would throw back laughing if they saw me wearing a cross kek. maybe I will get some cross jewelry and see how I feel wearing it.
>>2050899
it feels edgy and unaesthetic because you cant really turn a print or jewelry upside down. a lot of upside down cross jewelry are really tacky too.

No. 2050987

Thank you all for the candor and willingness to engage, I really appreciate it. I just want to preface this reply with a disclaimer that I have no intent to proselytize or “prove myself” or anything like that and that I understand my posting here is definitely unorthodox and if my presence here makes any nonas uncomfortable I will no longer post. I understand I am female and welcome in female only spaces such as here but I also understand that my presence here could potentially be seen as a slippery slope or trojan horse for TRA apologism which I would hate to be interpreted as but I also understood that I have no control over how I am being interpreted, so I just want to express my gratitude & amenability to fucking off if you all need me to fuck off

>>2050831
I’m not going to deny any amount of female socialization because I am aware that as someone who is female categorically any socialization I have ever experienced is female socialization, and my thorough explanation is overlong and a bit bloggy and will be in reply to another anon but TL;DR I was raised nontraditionally and without gender roles but not in a deliberately “gender free” way, it just happened to be without gender roles. I have no intent to bear or raise children so I don’t think it will have any material bearing on my life in that way. I’m not sure about it being CAIS as I have experienced changes due to exogenous testosterone but it has been at an incrementally slower rate than “normal”, which might in part be due to initial low dosage/methodology (gel)—I look more like a female who has been on testosterone for about a year when I have been on it for 3 years. I don’t mind the lower capacity of virilization I have experienced and I think an AIS would explain it if that is the case

>>2050833
I do try to be as proactive about my health as possible as I am very aware of the health risks of medically transitioning and want to offset them as much as possible. I understand that that sounds very counterintuitive given medically transitioning is a decision i made. The now existing risk of prostate cancer is definitely something I am worried about but I feel knowing is half the battle and I am better off knowing it is a potential risk than not knowing at all, and I keep thinking about how were I not medically transitioning I would likely have not even found out about it at all, so my irrationality at least is a boon in this instance. I will probably get the karotype testing done, thank you for urging me to care about my health, this entire situation has just been very strange and thrown a wrench into my previous self concept (IE, cognizant that I am a female engaging in unnecessary and irrational medical intervention that will never make me male) because there being any kind of provable biological incentive for that psychological skew or bent feels incomprehensible to me and almost too simple to make sense

>>2050838
My upbringing was abnormal, my parents were very emphatic about teaching me to be independent as a child and drilled both traditionally“male” and “female” responsibilities into my head (I don’t think these things are gendered but I was taught general home repair skills, gun safety, how to clean correctly, how to cook, etc etc before I completed elementary school, and taught me basic self-defense skills/emphasized repeatedly to me that it was absolutely okay to hit people if I felt the circumstance justified it) and I was allowed to miss school a lot because I was bullied (by both genders) for being a sperg who could only talk about Pokemon (my parents didn’t enforce gender roles with toys at all, the closest thing was my mom buying me Care Bears but I think it was an excuse for her to collect them and use me as a proxy) and I missed the boat on a lot of socialization in general, let alone the gendered intricacies of it. I found out trans people existed when I was 12 (in 2012) and immediately felt disdain and resentment and disgust for them but also felt like it explained something I felt in a way I did not know how to articulate otherwise and have “identified as trans” since (so for 12 years now) and was “out as trans” at school (against my parents’ will) so for middle and high school whatever socialization I was experiencing was contingent upon how whatever individual I interacted with saw me as an individual. I actively avoided the trans kids at my school and would actively delegitimize their identities when socializing which I realize probably sounds hypocritical but I didn’t and still don’t care if I get “misgendered” (I don’t believe that is a real thing) and the full extent of anything I ever told anyone was just telling teachers at the beginning of the school year “I prefer (gender neutral name) by the way not the name on the roster” and they just assumed I was trans which I expected and was coasting off of this presumption so I wouldn’t have to try and explain that I was trans

My parents were not okay with any of this (understandably) and the ultimatum reached was that if I still felt the way I did at 21 and had the means on my own end to pursue it, they would tolerate it. That is exactly what ended up happening. I understood as a teenager that waiting things out was probably for the best and emotional manipulation would not be worth it and would be transparently disingenuous. A lot of the trans kids I went to high school with suibaited their way into transitioning underage and only one of them is still trans identified

To answer your questions specifically, I don’t really “feel” any particular way, I know a lot of gendies (I understand I am technically a gendie) conflate not feeling “any way” with them not being women and I understand nothing I do will ever make me not a woman and that being a woman isn’t some special feeling and is just biological reality, but to be as concise as I can I feel that taking testosterone and doing other things related to medically transitioning has improved my mental health and wellbeing, and have had no impact on my self concept. I think a lot of the things I do that are tangentially associated with “transness” are more out of convenience because, just as an example, trying to get testosterone as a woman with no modifiers who merely wants it would not be “permissible”, versus trying to get testosterone as a woman who goes by a name besides her birth name and presents in a gender nonconforming manner is seen as shorthand for “trans person soliciting gender affirming care” and it’s significantly easier to coast off of the pre-configured expectations that already exist and to not correct them.
I do think I “fit in” better with males than most females, but I don’t really care to, I hate scrotes I hate moids they are NPCs to me. Because at work/school I am perceived as male I frequently have to curve or grey rock them socially, and I am hesitant to gravitate towards women in casual settings as I do not want to accidentally make them uncomfortable so I don’t really “fit in” particularly well with either group but I don’t think I am “less female” for being able to mesh with men/not being able to mesh with women. I do not think it is because I am intersex, I actually do not know why that is the case.

Also as an aside I just want all the nonas here to know that normie lib women are becoming sick of trans people/trans ideology too, my sister was telling me about how she was having lunch with a coworker and her coworker said abruptly “I have to tell you something and you have to promise not to get mad at me or to tell anyone” and the “something” she had to tell her was that she finds trans people annoying. My sister agreed and they both commiserated not over hating trans people, or hating trans ideology, but just how annoying they found trans people. I think social tides will start to turn sooner than we all expect

No. 2051068

>>2050987
nyayrt, i may only be one person but you are welcome here as far as i'm concerned nonna ♥ that said, reading your message and specifically the parts where you mention feeling unable to fit in (amongst other more subtle things), i can't help but wonder if you've ever genuinely looked into female autism? i don't ask this in a derogatory way at all i am one myself kek, but it might explain part of your life experiences, not to mention that a lot of autistic women unfortunately get sucked into TIF stuff due to having more of a disconnect with their bodies and social expectations (both things falsely equated to "genderfeels" by the masses). what you did with those feelings is far more of a mature and self-aware approach than your typical gendie, yes, but i'm picking up on a lot of root feelings that are common in autistic women.
i also feel like i should mention that testosterone is said to have effects akin to antidepressants for at least the first 5 years, which may be part of the reason for your improvement in mental well-being. anyway, i'm wishing for you to stay safe and healthy nonna.

No. 2051116

>>2050987
Kek I was about to bitch about how you don’t have a prostate, until I read further up the thread. Kinda wild to learn about a condition like that later on in life,

I apperciate you posting. I recently peaked but never went so far along as to do any transitioning so it’s been interesting to read your thoughts and experiences.

No. 2051129

>>2050987
Seconding looking into female autism because you sound like you are autistic, not trying to be mean here. Do you mind intrusive questions? if so,
>Do you pass as a male? And are you really sure you do
>What made you transition, exactly?
>Why are you getting your uterus removed? Aren't you scared of how it will affect your anatomy?
>Are you planning on living like a man? Have you thought about detransitioning?
>Why do you not relate to women?
Don't feel obligated to answer if you don't feel like it. Live your best intersex life.

No. 2051154

File: 1718528302109.jpg (175.03 KB, 1080x1287, j.jpg)

the post

No. 2051155

File: 1718528401506.jpg (370.63 KB, 1061x2201, e.jpg)

>>2051154
the replies. cackling at the retard using google algorithm answer as a source
i'm so tired of people lying to themselves and acting like it gives them moral high ground

No. 2051176

>>2050831
If you have undescended testies and a fucking rape ape gene you’re a man to me. You could look like a 4’11 stripper and it would change nothing. Women give too much leeway to intersexed men and it blows in our faces. So much of womens’ scholarships for sports goes to “secret testicle havers” and you’ve got to be retarded to not see a problem with it. Eunuchs still have physical advantages over women and womanhood is not a box for everyone who failed at being the ideal man. Neither is it a losers club for all sorts of freaks. Castrated gay men with undescended testies are men. FEMALES deserve a chance at life too. There needs to be committees to weed out “you people” from sports. We can tell who you are just from your violent crime statistics. Watch me catch a ban for not being heckin’ inclusive to women with balls in 5,4,3,2….

No. 2051180

>>2051176
That anon said she has a vagina/uterus too though

No. 2051182

>>2051180
I’m not talking about anon specifically

No. 2051183

>>2050755
So you have a cervix but also inner testes and a prostate? Do you still have the rest of your female biology intact?
Why don't you just live as a gender non conforming woman? Isn't that just easier than playing into gendie ideology that you yourself hate? You know there's other intersex women out there (and no I don't mean PCOS) that chose to not inject testosterone and never have dysphoria right? Like, if your "male anatomy" wasn't properly developed and it's just hanging around inside you, are you really a male? Or are you using this new thing as an excuse to validate your gender dysphoria? Be real here, because I'm not trying to make you feel lesser, I simply wish you could see that yes, you are a gendie, no matter what genitals you have, simply because you're playing into the cult and injecting testosterone, which I'm assuming your body doesn't even need after you explained you simply look like yet another tif (aka woman with testosterone injections)

No. 2051185

>>2051182
Then do you think that anon is a scrote? Yes or no

No. 2051186

>>2051176
>>2051182
I think there's never going to be a fully truly "intersex" person and that the biological balance will always go towards either male or female naturally. One thing will always be more overpowering than the other in a person's body I guess. In the case of that anon, she might had been a female (all fetuses start as female) that never really completed the transformation into a male fetus, who knows. I'm no doctor but that's my understanding of it

No. 2051189

I've always been of this mind, as in trannies are ridiculous and so on and so forth. But recently vacillating a little bit. I will clarify that I am an (actual) woman as it may not be obvious.

I think the only actual problem is how it's rushed out into the mainstream, and it's therefore making people want to be trans out of jealousy (e.g. most FTMs simply wish they were MTFs, or to unconsciously capitalise on the old-school femboy aesthetic), or due to the same factors that make them follow any given trend. They then regret it or grow out of it and weep about how they were allowed to make a decision that they threatened suicide over not being allowed to make it ('I can make whatever decisions I want to make about my body and its fascist to tell me otherwise… but I was just a helpless widdle uwu smol minor and you took advantage of me, you shouldn't have listened to me!'). I don't have sympathy for the weak-willed and if this is how they're getting culled, then so be it.

The other problem with it being mainstream is it making the true normies (the breeders, the housewives, the guy at the hardware store) come into full glaring contact with an alternative society that they've never been drawn to, and wouldn't have ever understood. The guy at the hardware store sees a grown man with a fupa parading around in fishnets, or a topless 18-year-old fat girl with rainbow hair and disgusting keloid scars where her tits used to be, and sees that the stuff on the Glenn Beck show or the Liberty Freedom Whateverthefuck youtube channel that his estranged daughter set up on his smart tv six years ago says is right, and pursues hating it with the same fervour that he hates the Current Thing of the week before (Ukraine or something, I don't remember). On the other hand, you have the nuclear family. When you have a couple that was coerced to marry at 20 by the social laws of small town Hickville and then shat out a bunch of kids, church on Sundays and LIVE LOVE LAUGH on your wall, neither of them were ever allowed to be free. But the woman is more complicit in her own oppression (read Right Wing Women) and always will be, and the man is always more able to abscond and go his own way, as the woman has to accept it for her own survival. So for the man to transition is something I really, deeply understand why they would do it, but it's still undeniably a crime against the entire family.

And that's the same fate that the old school gays had to reckon with.

So what they want is for that second situation to never happen again, and for those crimes to be mitigated. But the only way that can be achieved is by enabling the first situation.

I wonder if we aren't just in the initial tidal wave, where all of the people that would have tried and regretted it are trying and regretting it, and the trend will fall off back to how it should be. It's an alternative subculture, but one that is required to achieve self actualisation for a lot of people in a similar way that living and expressing your own sexuality is. That doesn't mean that the guy at the hardware store has to call you a woman, and he can sneer and call you a faggot all he wants, but you can deal with it because you were brave enough to start living like this in the first place. And maybe now those people won't exist as much as they did before, so the kids growing up today don't have to experience that for themselves.

Some of them are doing it in a way that's just too cringe, and some of them will get their dreams crushed and crash back down to earth or kill themselves. I think they want to also let the cringe live, to either wither away or to bloom, and to stop the thresher that tears the other ones down to nothing.

There's obviously a lot of problems that are being caused by transness in leftist circles (read: most of the Internet and now in real life too), but those same problems could be applied to any problem. X is exclusionary, X is racist, if you don't do X then you're a big poopyhead and you can't sit with us at lunch. I don't really see that transness is that unique as a divisive factor, so I think it's almost just a red herring. I also hate the trend of getting disfiguring, experimental, cosmetic surgeries, and think that that will also resolve itself as more people speak out against the aftermath of them, but it's also unfortunately just part and parcel of it. If you get 'talked into' doing these things without fully doing your research (this is bigly a Woman Thing - the men tend to actually know what they're getting into), and then cry about it, then you actually deserve it. It should be as it used to be, a last resort for the type of guy that stared in the mirror and fantasised about chopping his dick off with a razor blade. Bottom surgery for women shouldn't even exist as it's asking for an addition of a thing, rather than the removal of a thing (although you can save FGM for this perhaps), and it's just a bit pointless as a result. Some of the top surgery for women looks fantastic and others look like actual butcher work, and I'm pretty sure the butcher work is most often just caused by being fat and smelly. I would personally do it in a heartbeat if the technique gets more uniformly better. The rest of it (FFS, breast implants, ab implants, what have you) is just normal, and who cares? I don't have a problem with body modification, and no one else should either. I don't have a problem with people trying to be the version of themselves that they want to be. And that's about what it comes down to.

I think at the end of the day, the waters are just getting too muddied by the trenders, which is mainly the women. Once they give it a break, we should be able to breathe a bit more, and maybe we can see gender as another toy to use to break the confines of the body and express yourself with as in any other alternative fashion. If you don't have to be a 'man' or a 'woman,' that's great. You don't need to feel like you have to get your dick chopped off. You can wear funny clothes and call yourself whatever you want to. The people at your office might have to call you 'they' or something, or pretend that you're a woman to your face. Or you can also perhaps understand that not everyone will get it, and let them call you whatever they think they should call you, but they won't feel like they can comment on the way you look - good. It shouldn't have to be the end of the world. Splitting gender off from sex can be as useful a tool of self-discovery (if that's the type of thing you want to do) as anything else.

Just think I've lately come around to this, and the more I do, the more I find a lot of the people that screech and cry about it to be nothing but silly. Posting this here because just typing it out was useful to find the words.

No. 2051191

>>2051176
I think that anon is yet another autistic tif that decided to transition for social reasons (as all tifs do) but then saw that she's intersex and now she thinks that being intersex is the reason that makes her transition valid. It's yet more gender ideology and the way she is using their ideology as an excuse despite her being GC means she's just hypocritical and things only apply to her in her head when they are convenient because she's "not like other tifs". And that's debatable, because she does get points for being intersex, but that doesn't make it a reason to perpetuate stereotypes and brainrot that trannies themselves imposed on intersex people. How can she still inject testosterone after being peaked is beyond me, the whole deal about being a woman/intersex/male is that you don't need fucking hormones to be yourself, you don't need to mutilate, you don't need to fall into the gendie cult, your natural self is just fine and dandy. It would honor her intersex condition more if she simply stopped acting up on the tranny stuff.

No. 2051209

>>2051186
>(all fetuses start as female)
This isn’t true. Sex is determined at conception so all fetuses are either female or male. No males start as female. If anon developed testes he has a Y chromosome and he’s male. That’s assuming this anon is real and not just a LARPing TIM, because “being intersex” and being accepted in all-female spaces like lc are both common TIM fetishes.

No. 2051216

>>2051209
She said she has a cervix and a womb, you're ignoring the other half of the problem. You're not the epic radfem you think you're being right now by alienating her

No. 2051219

File: 1718536121847.png (311.93 KB, 720x1440, IMG_20240616_050537.png)

>>2051209
You know what I meant and I was over simplifying things.

No. 2051220

>They then regret it or grow out of it and weep about how they were allowed to make a decision that they threatened suicide over not being allowed to make it ('I can make whatever decisions I want to make about my body and its fascist to tell me otherwise… but I was just a helpless widdle uwu smol minor and you took advantage of me, you shouldn't have listened to me!'). I don't have sympathy for the weak-willed and if this is how they're getting culled, then so be it.
>If you get 'talked into' doing these things without fully doing your research (this is bigly a Woman Thing - the men tend to actually know what they're getting into)
>I don't really see that transness is that unique as a divisive factor
Trans politics are uniquely divisive because it directly concerns half of the population (women). TiMs don't know what they're getting into, either. They all start HRT with a delusional mindset, thinking it will feminize them in a convincing way. They get depressed but persist because they have a fetish (most often). I'm not impressed with your anti-trender sentiment or the implication that women somehow have less of a claim to knowledge. TiFs do obsess over the effects of HRT, but teenagers typically lack the capacity to project in the future and really weigh their decisions. This is why they're legally minors in ever other area, by the way

No. 2051229

>>2051220
>women
>teenagers
respectfully, which is it? children do not have the capacity to research this topic with any degree of nuance or rationality, a teenager of any sex is more emotionally driven than any man or woman as an adult, people making the choice as teens are not in the same category as adult women and I don't know many adult women who have transitioned but know tens of female teens, I dont know any teenage TiMs but only know adult males who have trooned. Not sure what the stats are but thats what its like where I am, I'm wondering how that factors in

No. 2051235

>>2051229
>women or teens? which is it?
AYRT, i'm mostly talking about teens but i was also reacting to the 'this is bigly a Woman thing' part. Teenage girl, woman, i was making a point about femaleness.
On the off chance intersex anon isn't a TiM trolling women on a lonely sunday, i want to ask them if, in retrospect, being intersex was something they suspected, if 'feeling neither male nor female' was something that came up when deciding to go on T. Did you feel like your socialization was off?
Like you could have benefitted from being considered 'partly male' earlier in life? Parents might raise a kid without stereotypes but boys can exclude girls from play very early in childhood, among other things. I know one CAIS woman and you'd never think she's XY. She's your typical nerdy woman into lolita and alt fashion, very much female socialized, so i'm curious as to why a CAIS woman would take T

No. 2051238

>>2051219
nta but a lot of people really do think humans literally start as female, it's something i've seen tims use as some kind of "i was female to begin with" argument so it's better to not futher the myth

No. 2051241

>>2049901
my country is still relatively conservative so i don't encounter trannies in daily life. online there's not much of them either but it's mostly agp scrotes, could be because i hang out in nerd communities. niche tech-related spaces are infested with femboys though
i used to know one hsts from my school. he trooned out after i graduated so i found out through social media. i should check up on him
>>2050418
girl where

No. 2051244

>>2050417
Bi here but it doesn't matter because deep down we know we can become somewhat moidbrained when dealing with no matter other women or TIFs and it gives us satisfaction, it gives us satisfaction if it's ironic when we see our competition calling themselves men like wtf there is no basis in comparison.

Key here, if they want to go all out calling themselves moids just to escape attention or want attention in a different way than usual it gives us chance to fly under the radar, as actually deep down we might be suffering just like these TIFs (Tiffany, you're not special) and wanted an outlet to let our moidbrained thoughts and we find an acceptable target to chase. Sorry Tiffany, we just feel like having a good day mogging a few TIFs because the playing field is already level.

No. 2051246

>>2050417
Why does it ironically make the other girls you refer to inevitably put in a male-stereotyped role just by your phrasing of the sentence?

No. 2051248

>>2051220
One thing that is important to reflect over: should mentally ill people (adults) be allowed to self-harm through medical malpractice?

For most people the answer is simply no. We shouldn't let anorexics get liposuction. We shouldn't cut the leg of a amputee-fetishist. We shouldn't stab the eyes out of a man because he's manic and thinks aliens have poisoned them.

And if the anwser is no it shouldn't be allowed, then we need to hold doctos accountable for the harm they have afflicted. "Adults can do whatever body modification they want, it's their body" still doesn't mean 99% of doctors don't still refuse to give the anorexic lipo, or to cut of a healthy leg or stab out eyes. And the few that do that get in legal trouble and lose their license.

So in my opinion, we shouldn't let mentally ill people get any kind of "trans healthcare" that harms their bodies simply because they're delusional about their bodies. It's immoral and harmful and should simply be illegal. Even though as a female I have to admit it can feel like a net positive to have some sexually deviant men castrate themselves, I still don't agree with letting mentally ill people harm themselves. As adults they do have responsibility for making poor decisions too, but the doctors are ultimately the ones who abused the laws and morals to harm them. Just like they are if they let an anorexic get liposuction.

No. 2051268

>>2051248
Very true.
>as a female I have to admit it can feel like a net positive to have some sexually deviant men castrate themselves
It's hilarious but i think deviant men, rapists, harmful fetishists will do harm regardless of what's in their pants. Pedophiles on lupron still assault kids, TiMs with rotten holes where their penis used to be still act in blatantly depraved ways. It's like the mystery of why old men with malfunctioning dicks still go out of their way to harrass women, some moids get off in unusual/harmful ways even if their junk is expired or gone.
But yeah, you make a good point. If the medical establishment accepts that castration is okay for some perverts and some adult homos, then it's no surprise that it has extended this logic to the mentally ill and traumatized and gay minors.

No. 2051318

>>2051248
>as a female

No. 2051325


No. 2051366

>>2051325
Is the ceiling covered in shit??? What is that??

No. 2051377

I was thinking about how different ideologies entrap people recently. Religion (Abrahamic) usually leverages the “enternal soul in hell forever” and “omnipotent god that punishes” to rile people into some insane shit. Though with the gender ideology; what do they have?
I can at least understand acting rabid if I truly believe my soul for the rest of fucking forever will be tortured. Yet with gender specials they act the fool for what? Is this just base human behavior, willing to join a community that provides some nice social cred and freedom from social repercussions for acting like a shithead?

So strange that religious people (in most first world nations)have to accept that people won’t affirm and validate their religion. Which would be literal violence to lots of gendies.

No. 2051379

>>2051244
>>2051246
What is this? I don't even understand what you're each talking about or what you're trying to say. My point stands then.

No. 2051400

>>2051318
kek i'm used to peaking woke people ok, if i say "woman" they assume i'm including transwomen so i've gotten used to speaking around it

No. 2051405

>>2051268
>i think deviant men, rapists, harmful fetishists will do harm regardless of what's in their pants.
Yes, men are still more violent, bigger and stronger, sexually aggressive, and even if they chop their dick off they still have hands and objects to abuse and rape others with. Men aren't automatically "safer" just because they've had the dick inversion surgery.
HRT does typically lessen their sex drive, which is a plus, and if they're infertile they won't have kids which is also good. But if men didn't abuse regardless of being sexually turned on they wouldn't abuse fellow straight men, which they also do all the fucking time. So they're still just as violent.

No. 2051411

I think one reason troon ideology is big is because it provides a scapegoat: the transphobe, terf, gc.

EVERYTHING bad is the transphobes fault. They're the reason you're miserable and don't feel accepted, they're the reason society is treating you so bad (it's totally not YOUR own fault for being a loser), they're the reason you can't get laid or even find a date, they're evil nazis who hate jews, they rape transwomen, they also hate poc and are the root of racism, oh and they hate fat people, and mentally ill people - and probably kick kittens!
There is literally nothing they won't accuse transphobes of being the cause of. And no matter how ridiculous it is to claim "transphobes are the reason hitler made it so society now hates fat plus-sized transmasc poc" I never see trans people refute the claims. They still just get away with it. They need no proof and no logic - they have the perfect scapegoat to unite around.

No. 2051440

>>2051268
Yeah even if they get castrated they still cause harm and can sexually assault in many other ways.

No. 2051443

>>2050987
You may need to read this:

>>2051191

No. 2051474

>>2050846
I know which YouTuber you’re talking about (love her btw, wish she’d upload more often) and she is actually the one example where’d I’d be willing to give credence to gendie intersex arguments. I don’t know what exact condition she has but I think it may be CAIS (maybe PAIS but that often comes with atypical appearance in sex characteristics and as far as I know she is completely phenotypically female) which would technically make her male on a cellular level but I can’t see her as anything other than a woman. She appears completely female, was raised as one since birth, you can tell by her interests and how she carries herself that she was clearly socialized as a little girl…I just can’t square calling someone like that a man even if they are technically male.
Curious what other anons think about those cases. Obviously it’s rare and most intersex people are more clearly male or female, even if some traits are ambiguous.

No. 2051489

>>2051189
shit take anon lol

No. 2051539

>>2051474
What YouTuber you need to share come on

No. 2051561

>>2051474
I feel pretty similarly to you, and I don't think that's giving into gendie intersex arguments either. These are actual medically significant conditions completely different from tranny stuff. CAIS in particular is a really interesting. Usually they choose to live as women and I don't see a problem with that, nor how it relates to trannies and provide any "proof" that their ideology is correct.
>>2051539
it's nisipisa. Her recent "you're getting older" video is the one where she talks about being intersex

No. 2051738

>>2051474
>maybe PAIS but that often comes with atypical appearance in sex characteristics and as far as I know she is completely phenotypically female
PAIS and CAIS aren't the same despite sounding like they are. The P comes from "partial" because they're men who reacted to the SRY gene's testosterone and developed male, but it got fucked up because of the disorder, resulting in a micro dick (or more dick). The C in for "complete" meaning the SRY gene couldn't activate at all so no dick ever developed at all. It's like if you're handed a drink that is partially full of shit, and one completely free of it. Only one drink has shit in it.

No. 2051802

>>2049379
Thank you for sharing those kek-worthy paragraphs. Meeting trannies irl and witnessing how shallow and narcissistic they all were, without any exception, peaked me a few years back when I thought they were just unfortunate misplaced souls. You hit the nail on the head with your observations. Our contemporary culture rewards and pushes narcissistic behaviors, it isn't surprising that the trannies have won the golden medal of the most-marginalized-group olympics and spread so much recently.

No. 2051866

>>2051068
Shockingly I’m not autistic, I’ve been tested 3 separate times—twice when tested for ADHD as a child then as a teenager, and once while undergoing IQ testing as a child. I don’t really feel like I have autism at all, without getting into specifics I feel like I don’t fit in not because of some abstract inexplicable quality about me, and more just cultural differences between where I was raised and where I’m living now & like I can’t really relate to the experiences and backgrounds of other people my age here of either sex. I fit in perfectly where I was raised, I just don’t live there right now. I was somehow really popular in high school kek I think I just sound super spergy in writing because I am overly cautious with my tone and deliberately super precise because I don’t want to be misunderstood and I would rather sound like a pedantic sperg but know my point is coming across how I intend it than the alternative
I don’t intend to be on testosterone forever specifically because I want to avoid the long term health risks and I appreciate the well wishes for my health and safety!! I haven’t had any scares in either regard and hopefully I don’t in the future

>>2051116
When I was trying to look up information about the specifics I was told, all I could find was TIFs either asking how they could tell they were intersex (I’m assuming for valor) or asking if they could grow a prostate, so I understand why your initial assumption would be that I was larping. I don’t think I’ve ever really been peaked in a precise sense because I’ve always been distrustful of trans people as a general monolith but I am happy and relieved more women are peaking, I think it’s always disconcerted me and upset me to see women engage in trans apologia not knowing that it isn’t in their best interest. I know with girl friends I’ve had I’ve made a deliberate effort to underhandedly badmouth TIMs in particular to see what kind of a reaction I get from them, usually just iterating “X is really creepy and uncomfortable to be around” or similar things (nothing about their transness so it doesn’t seem targeted for that reason) repeatedly so that they feel comfortable vocalizing similar feelings if they do have them, and they consistently have—but I’m not sure if any of them have realized that they’ve agreed that all of the TIMs we mutually are aware of are creepy/weird/off-putting and I don’t want to connect the dots for any of them out of fear they’ll suddenly get scared that they’re “being transphobic” and actively ignore that discomfort & I just hope they eventually connect the dots themselves. I think I have inadvertently peaked a few women I’ve been friends with just by pointing out stuff like that though & I’ve turned a lot of people away from specific TIMs in high school/college by pointing out their weird behavior and evaded scrutiny by acting wokey about it which I realize is manipulative but I also think the ends justify the means given that the end result is “TIM is not humored and is alienated”

>>2051129
I don’t mind invasive questions and also understand I kind of opened myself up to them by just being here
>Do you pass as a male? And are you really sure you do
I obviously can’t be sure if I “really do” but I live in a very socially conservative/regressive area with a large immigrant population, so social tolerance of trannies is nonexistent (by that I mean trannies being humored) and I am constantly gendered as male by everyone I encounter to the point where when I have been IDed I have been accused of having a fake because of the legal name and sex. There are a lot of masculine/butch women where I live too and anecdotally based on conversations I’ve had with the ones I know, none of them get confused for male ever so I don’t think it’s out of cultural unawareness of masculinity in women.
>What made you transition, exactly?
I don’t know what specifically made me want to transition in the first place or made me think it was a good idea for me, but what prompted me to pursue it was that it was a sustained want that was feasible and that I went out of my way to inform myself of all of the risks of and had an active “escape plan” in case any of those risks did arise, which they haven’t, thankfully. I know I’m lucky to have not experienced any of the negative side effects of testosterone that a lot of TIFs have and I would never endorse or suggest it as something viable for another person simply because it’s not something you can guarantee you will not regret pursuing regardless of how sure you feel, and I also know I’m lucky to have not regretted it at all. I don’t think this makes me more legitimate because I really don’t think there is such a thing as a legitimate trans person & I think the “true trans” types are the most likely to detransition due to their black and white thinking, I think I was just very pragmatic in my approach and understood the risks and limitations and didn’t see it as a life-changing thing the way a lot of TIFs make it out to be. It has improved my life in a lot of ways but I also think a lot of ways in which my life improved have to do with just growing up and getting older in general
>Why are you getting your uterus removed? Aren't you scared of how it will affect your anatomy?
I’m getting it removed as preventative healthcare to prevent prospective complications due to testosterone usage & also because uterine cancer has happened a few times in my family, but also because I had horrific cramps prior to starting testosterone and I don’t intend to be on it forever and I’d rather avoid the prospect of incapacitating cramps when I eventually go off of it if possible. Also i want to note that my cramps had no bearing on my decision to medically transition because if I ended up not doing that my plan was to lie to my insurance and say I was nonbinary so they would not only not give me shit for trying to get it done but so it would be entirely covered
I intend to get a partial hysterectomy so it is less invasive & to keep my ovaries. I’m definitely concerned about the possibility of it affecting my anatomy and I have been doing pelvic floor exercises in preparation for when I eventually undergo the procedure to ensure I’m in good physical condition and to minimize the risk of complications
>Are you planning on living like a man? Have you thought about detransitioning?
I don’t think “living like a man” means anything specific and that anything a man does constitutes living as a man, same as anything a woman does constitutes living as a woman. I don’t correct people when they perceive me as male but I also don’t correct them when they perceive me as female. None of my actions or behaviors are modulated or dictated based on feeling I need to come across a specific way, I do what I feel like doing and let people draw their own conclusions. As I mentioned before I am generally read as male and I’m not sure why specifically that is, but I “present” very androgynously/plainly simply because that’s what I find most aesthetically pleasant. I’ve never considered detransitioning and I think that’s because I’ve never really felt like I have invested much in any of this or applied any pressure to myself in any way, and I understand it’s entirely noncommittal and if I wanted to stop tomorrow I would be able to without much explanation to anyone around me. I also don’t ever assert myself as a trans person IRL nor do I really consider myself a trans person, I just see myself as a female that is able to be construed/interpreted as an FTM
>Why do you not relate to women?
I actually do relate to women and far favor the company of women over the company of men, there are certain things that other women express that I can’t relate to like wanting to adhere to beauty standards but I don’t think I am less female for not being able to relate to that, and it mostly just makes me upset and sad that so many women feel that way and wish women as a whole were able to evade those feelings and expectations. I am able to relate to some men but most moids are so terminally coombrained that they are unsalvageable and are only able to relate to other coombrained men so I don’t even really consider them people

No. 2051868

>>2051866
>>2051183
I think these are all fair things to say and judgements to make and I can’t say you’re wrong. I definitely do not think I am male & I also understand that I am functionally and technically a gender nonconforming woman. I’m not trying to validate or legitimize my incentive to transition as I understand it’s irrational, but I was merely wondering if there’s any correlation between it as an irrational impulse & my recent medical discovery. I don’t like to frame it as dysphoria because I feel like that is TRA logic & I don’t think there is any good or legitimate reason for me to be taking testosterone and that even calling it dysphoria is legitimizing it—I also understand entertaining it is legitimizing it but my justification is that at least I am not approaching it like a routine/normal problem the same way that the TRA terminology of “gender dysphoria” normalizes it. I understand for all intents and purposes I am a gendie and I am no better than them but I also try to let other women in my life feel enabled and empowered to vocalize disdain for TRAs/trans ideology and I don’t think that’s something a lot of them would feel “okay” doing without “a gendie” spurring it on/encouraging it, which is really unfortunate and makes me mad, but I think I have been able to help peak more women in my life due to my gendie adjacency than I would have been able to otherwise. I also don’t engage with or entertain any TRAs/TIFs/TIMs so I think accusing me of playing into the cult is a little bit unfair, but I also understand that my existence as a woman on testosterone does prop up their logic so I do understand what you are saying. As far as my body not needing testosterone, it definitely doesn’t, but I also was not producing enough estrogen around the time I initially started testosterone so I would have had to take HRT in the form of estrogen had I not started testosterone, which doesn’t legitimize or justify me transitioning in any capacity but is worth noting. My point of comparison of a “female on testosterone for one year” was more meant as a frame of reference in terms of virilization specifically IE i don’t look hard and aged and vascular the way a lot of other TIFs on testosterone do

>>2051191
I don’t think it validates my transition at all, especially considering it is information I wouldn’t have found out had I not transitioned. I think the only difference at all between me and most other TIFs is that I am willing to listen to and converse with nonas here. I think it is a fair assumption that I transitioned for social reasons but even if I didn’t transition I would be dressing and acting the exact same way I currently do & planned to change my birth name to a gender neutral one (it gets misspelled a lot and I just prefer gender neutral names in general), so by that logic are JKR or Lionel Shriver going by male names for social reasons? Or was Elizabeth Holmes deepening her voice for social reasons? I’m not trying to ensnare you in a gotcha of any kind I promise nona, I’m genuinely interested in the concept of gender-conforming women/women in general engaging in “masculinizing” behaviors as a calculated maneuver, and I feel like your perspective would be really interesting
As far as your last few points, I genuinely don’t think I need hormones/surgery/etc etc to be myself at all and I would still be the same without them and i am still the same with them. I think trannies coopting intersex marginalization is gross and weird and I feel bad that I even came across like I was trying to do that, but I really am curious about there being a possible biological prompt for gender variant behavior and I don’t think that it would legitimize me at all because the decisions I’ve made were prior to finding it out, I just think a possible explanation would be interesting to learn about. Even if I had ended up deciding not to transition and never learned I was intersex, I would still have those feelings, I just wouldn’t have the opportunity to learn more about them.
But circling back to medical intervention, it’s easy for me to justify it because I haven’t had any negative side effects. I take Adderall which has some negative side effects and possible health complications that I haven’t personally experienced, and I won’t die without it, but taking it makes my life easier in some way. That’s how I’m able to justify continuing testosterone—I’m not under some delusion that I would die without it, I’m not having bad side effects, and it makes my life easier to take it. Likewise with surgery, if I had to get the titchop I wouldn’t have gotten surgery, but I was luckily eligible for a minimally invasive procedure that retained sensation so I don’t feel botched or mutilated at all also the only reason i got it was because I hated how underboob sweat felt and my insurance covered it entirely kek. I don’t really feel like i’ve defiled my natural self in any way, because nothing I’ve done has felt obligatory on my end and I have taken serious thought into all of the decisions I have made, and I just genuinely enjoy the effects I have experienced from transitioning and they have eliminated anything equivocal to dysphoria that I experienced prior to any intervention. I really don’t know what the explanation for this would be in all honesty, because again I don’t particularly care about being seen one way or another and completely understand that nothing about my presentation, medical intervention, etc makes me anything but female in any way

>>2051235
I’m not a scrote I promise kek but to answer your questions:
> i want to ask them if, in retrospect, being intersex was something they suspected, if 'feeling neither male nor female' was something that came up when deciding to go on T
Not really, I have always assumed everyone feels “neither male nor female” as gender is heavily socialized and mirrored so I assumed my feeling that way was unspecial and if anything consequence of my upbringing, but it was not a factor in my decision to go on testosterone
> Did you feel like your socialization was off? Like you could have benefitted from being considered 'partly male' earlier in life?
In terms of socialization, I think it would have been a net negative to know earlier as it would have socially othered me significantly. I also probably would have been transed underage due to there being a “reason” for me to transition, and I feel like not transitioning until a few years after I became an adult made me learn to be patient & that delayed gratification is okay and forced me to be independent and self sufficient earlier, and all of these traits in myself as an individual are things I am very proud of and I wouldn’t want things to have been any different for me, because even though I was pretty miserable growing up I am a confident and stable and happy and levelheaded adult now
> Parents might raise a kid without stereotypes but boys can exclude girls from play very early in childhood, among other things
I was excluded by both boys and girls in elementary school, and then popular with both boys and girls in middle and high school, which I still don’t entirely understand why, but I’m not going to deny that it was a fun and cool experience. Any “friend groups” I’ve been in I’ve meshed well with regardless of gender ratio, but I’ve always preferred individual friendships and those historically have been an even ratio between male and female, but in recent history have skewed exclusively female because I hate moids and the only kind i can tolerate even remotely are the completely inoffensive lib-but-not-neoliberal normie gay moids (I find the OTT hyperfem ones almost as bad as straight scrotes) and even then only in limited circumstances

>>2051561
I love nisipisa!! When i was told I was intersex my first thought immediately was “Like nisipisa??” kek

I hope I am not coming across like I’m attempting to justify my choices or defend them to you all, I’m just trying to explain myself & my thought processes & I think every response I have received has been completely warranted and sensible. I apologize for my posts all being so long I just want to make sure I am as thorough as possible in my responses

No. 2052498

File: 1718607700786.png (4.76 KB, 686x86, shit.png)

Why is it that when someone uses she/her and they/them in their social media profile or whatever, gendies always chose to refer to the person in question with the wokest pronoun instead of the normal one?

No. 2052503

>>2051561
Yeah I'm watching her and nothing about her comes off as scrotal, I would had never thought she's intersex. I hate how trannies use intersex people like her to justify their retardation tbh

No. 2052512

>>2051379
I'm sorry, a whole wave of jealousy and envy crashed me when comparing myself to TIFs.

>>2051868
It is undeniable transitioning actually virilizes to some extent, like, irreversibly fuck up your libido and thought patterns.

For JKR writing with a male pen name, this is a social barrier she has to cross, not the intent of identifying as TIF or so. This is a social barrier that the women might had seen a need to cross because it was not conditionally available to them. Being a TIF is more mental illness than women trying to engage in masculinity to cross a barrier.

No. 2052513

>>2051866
>I obviously can’t be sure if I “really do” but I live in a very socially conservative/regressive area with a large immigrant population, so social tolerance of trannies is nonexistent (by that I mean trannies being humored) and I am constantly gendered as male by everyone I encounter to the point where when I have been IDed I have been accused of having a fake because of the legal name and sex. There are a lot of masculine/butch women where I live too and anecdotally based on conversations I’ve had with the ones I know, none of them get confused for male ever so I don’t think it’s out of cultural unawareness of masculinity in women.
This is a legit question. If you pass as male, and have male genitalia… what are you doing here? Don't you consider yourself a male? You're basically living as one at this point
>>2051868
>I was merely wondering if there’s any correlation between it as an irrational impulse & my recent medical discovery.
>As far as my body not needing testosterone, it definitely doesn’t, but I also was not producing enough estrogen around the time I initially started testosterone so I would have had to take HRT in the form of estrogen had I not started testosterone, which doesn’t legitimize or justify me transitioning in any capacity but is worth noting. My point of comparison of a “female on testosterone for one year” was more meant as a frame of reference in terms of virilization specifically IE i don’t look hard and aged and vascular the way a lot of other TIFs on testosterone do
So you think taking testosterone was irrational and you still did it? Why did you take it instead of estrogen? What promted you to want to live like a man/transed woman?

No. 2052514

>>2051866
first ayrt. i don't know if the same rules apply to where you live, but i believe that autism and adhd couldn't be diagnosed concurrently until 2013 (DSM-V release), so if your testing was done under the DSM-IV and returned positive for adhd it's possible they might've swept it under the rug. still, i understand not wanting to go through that hassle a fourth time kek, and i certainly don't want to be pushy about it when you've already got a lot on your plate. that said, i am glad to hear about your plan to go off hrt eventually due to the long-term risks, though i am somewhat puzzled by your decision to go on it if it would've truly made so little difference to you (and also given that you ultimately can't predict some "hidden" health risks like increased heart attack rates, especially given the poor research in the area). i also do have to disagree the comparison between hrt and adderall, as the former is purely cosmetic and i could easily see a gendie bringing that up to justify increased accessibility to hrt. again though, your open-mindedness is appreciated, as is your work in helping more women peak.

>>2052498
because the she/theys will draw sadcomics if the woke pronoun isn't used "often enough".

No. 2052517

>>2051235
>Parents might raise a kid without stereotypes but boys can exclude girls from play very early in childhood, among other things.
This. The 'theybies' thing, it matters no more when the children are in school or playgroup, where it's no longer about being raised by the parents but being in a public environment where socialization at large still takes place. There is literally no advantages, but downsides that the children are less equipped to handle receiving their share of the socialization that every kid gets.

No. 2052519

>>2051235
I treat all CAIS/PAIS like TIMs

No. 2052521

>>2052514
>>2051866
the autism thing, basically this. There's doctors that test for adult female autism now, even in my third world country it's possible to find that type of help now. I recommend you researching it. I have ADHD but I've wondering if I also have autism for a while, I also have the whole "feeling wrong / different for no reason" thing and it's probably due to neurodivergence. I can't relate completely to normie women, I don't pursue things like makeup because it feels gross on my face etc. I even considered myself nonbinary at some point kek until I finally peaked.

No. 2052525

>>2052521
>feels gross on my face
Curious, how does that logically make you identify out of womanhood?

No. 2052526

>>2051868
>I don’t really feel like i’ve defiled my natural self in any way, because nothing I’ve done has felt obligatory on my end and I have taken serious thought into all of the decisions I have made, and I just genuinely enjoy the effects I have experienced from transitioning and they have eliminated anything equivocal to dysphoria that I experienced prior to any intervention. I really don’t know what the explanation for this would be in all honesty, because again I don’t particularly care about being seen one way or another and completely understand that nothing about my presentation, medical intervention, etc makes me anything but female in any way
delusional gendies be like.
>I hope I am not coming across like I’m attempting to justify my choices or defend them to you all,
you really are. Even if you say you're neutral about transitioning and you "don't take it as seriously" you're still transitioning.

No. 2052527

>>2052525
Makeup isn't womanhood.

No. 2052528

>>2051866
how far into testosterone hrt do you want to be though?
>I was somehow really popular in high school kek
do explain, were you already transitioning by then?

No. 2052529

>>2051868
>but I was merely wondering if there’s any correlation between it as an irrational impulse & my recent medical discovery.
GNC women and men, of any variety, are more likely to troon out. It's got little to do with the intersex part but stems from your perceived "not fitting in" self-image and an opposite-sex idealization. It can be as little as a feminine woman being gay and that's enough for her to feel like she wants to troon out and be a man.

Trooning out is the current "acceptable suffering". If you had been a decade or two older you very likely would instead manifest it through an eating disorder. A few years less and you'd have been a cutter. Nobody knows why they have the urge to starve themselves, why they hate their tiny bit of fat.

No. 2052535

File: 1718610913078.jpeg (368.54 KB, 750x943, IMG_0462.jpeg)

Nonnies… I feel like I have reached a new level of understanding and I need to scream. I think all of us should read this book, and it’s even scanned fully on the internet Archive. You Told me you were Different. https://archive.org/details/9-781954-625013/mode/1up

I don’t know what it was about this book, which by itself is simply a compilation of stories of women abused by trannies… I think it’s something about seeing all of the stories juxtaposed with each other, one after the next, that doesn’t the minutia of each slip by your mind, but even if I had been reaching the conclusion that male trannies are all the same, this book caused a grand final click of understanding. 192 pages, and many of them talk about more than one tranny… a harrowing one has a woman talking about the nine trannies she met irl in the San Francisco Area. Eight of them were pieces of shit to her. About half sexually assaulted her.

So many of these authors are lesbians. So many were TiFs at the time. It was harrowing because I too am an ex-TiF, I met so many trannies of course… and everyone in this book, everyone I knew, they are all carbon copies of each other. They were worse than even run of the mill scrotes. I have actually managed to have fulfilling friendships with more than one scrote but never managed the same thing with a tranny because they were all degenerates. And when a scrote came out to me as a tranny the friendship fell apart because his behaviour changed completely and always for the worse. Reading these stories, they’re all identical, among themselves and to the trannies I knew. I feel like I have been freed from the final remnants of empathy. They all lie the same. They all use TiFs. They all creep on the lesbians and the TiFs and the lesbian TiFs. So many of them are furries. So many of them are pedophiles. So many of them have retarded tranny names. There’s an unironic Alice in here. So many do bdsm. The word “poly” comes up all the time. They suicide bait and threaten the author with 41%ing… authors upon authors feeling alone and delusional, thinking surely it’s just one bad apple… 192 pages of bad apples all after the other… I have peaked to the level of the Everest, I have realised it’s okay for me to feel like 90% of trannies (all the agps) are degenerate rapists, because they ARE. They ARE. I am free. Total tranny death

No. 2052539

>>2052529
Reminds me of something i witnessed among one of my friends
>girl develops an interest in porn and that now makes her becomes a MANLY MAN because man watches porn and what she does is what men do etc. reasoning? women are not pornsick
Of course slippery slope, her personality changed over-2-nights into someone unrecognizable and a caricature of masculinity.

No. 2052556

File: 1718613903662.png (244.58 KB, 772x572, no comment.png)

>>2052535
I'm reading it now and I downloaded it too. Thank you nonna.

No. 2052561

File: 1718614591103.png (132.56 KB, 500x394, no comment.png)

>>2052556
same author

No. 2052573

File: 1718616084810.png (504.7 KB, 1458x578, holy shit.png)

>>2052561
holy shit.

No. 2052587

>>2051868
Personally, what I disagree with TIFs on is the fact that they view male and female as not something biological but as a feeling and because of that feeling they make choices that impact other people's lives in ways they don't agree on (female sports come to mind). If you don't have the same views I don't have a reason to oppose you. I believe taking cross sex hormones is a personal choice and people should be allowed to do with their bodies as they please with informed consent but in the case of mental illness (most times) it's not informed consent. How is it any different than doing steroids or drinking or another choice? Since you didn't know you were intersex, some other reason might have influenced your transition which could be anything from not being satisfied with your appearance to being bullied to feeling like you don't fit it to other life circumstances. Do you go to therapy? You probably should. Most times the feelings of dysmorphia and dysphoria can be solved with therapy. Even if you don't have them, you still should go because it's a big choice to make and I'll be honest you do seem to have some issues I'm saying this in a nice way.

No. 2052602

File: 1718618277887.jpeg (274.19 KB, 828x1228, IMG_0663.jpeg)

>>2052587
Nta, but this is a timely comment since I was just reading some libfem scientist who claims that therapy alone does zero to help gender disphoria. Which is wild since she goes on to say that puberty blockers have some use cases.

Full article is just her response to how anti trans the Cass report is. Would be interested in what nonnies thought.
https://skepchick.org/2024/06/the-cass-report-anti-science-and-anti-trans/

No. 2052645

>>2052526
She totally is, the callous way of treating the body is completely the same as your usual TIF. She keeps repeating how NLOG she was by "being informed of the risks" which is what 99% TIFs claim and worth jackshit if one goes ahead and does stuff that would harm their body anyway.
>I don’t know what specifically made me want to transition in the first place or made me think it was a good idea for me, but what prompted me to pursue it was that it was a sustained want that was feasible
>I feel that taking testosterone and doing other things related to medically transitioning has improved my mental health and wellbeing, and have had no impact on my self concept
>Likewise with surgery, if I had to get the titchop I wouldn’t have gotten surgery, but I was luckily eligible for a minimally invasive procedure that retained sensation so I don’t feel botched or mutilated at all also the only reason i got it was because I hated how underboob sweat felt and my insurance covered it entirely
The last point, God. Though I'm not surprised, lolcow has plenty of gc-masquerading self hating TIF adjacents that casually mention wanting titchops as if bodies are Legos and cutting off body parts is fine as long as you don't think you're a man for it. Clown behavior.

No. 2052650

>>2052645
>TIF-adjacent
I will never forgive these women either

No. 2052675

>>2051268
Troons have destroyed so much but in a sense it's paving the way for a better future, because it's shown women time and time again that a moid in a dress will always, always be a predator. He cuts his cock off and can't coom so now he beats women to feel better. He doesn't cut his cock off, he rapes women as well as beating them. He takes no steps to pretend he's a woman but still gets into women's spaces. He has a whole army of simps that lick the shit out of his ass on the daily and nothing anyone says will change that.
Troons have shit all over feminism, but it's gotten to a point where literally nothing else will make people understand that our rights as humans are being eroded. Call me retarded, but when even the wokiest uwu gender babbies on Tumblr are complaining about feminism vanishing despite everything becoming so shit for women, it's a sign that the next generation of handmaidens is waking up and getting sick of this shit.
Troon women who still experience misogyny despite having a pube beard and blue hair for 10 years are getting fed up with the LARP, troon-adjascent women who support anyone for attention are quietly dropping Dylan and other troons from their cheer rosters, there's some semblance of a pushback in the form of the Cass report, and gendies are being mocked by normies more openly than before.
There's also been an uptick of horror stories being shared about moids and moidlets who become vile after going online for like an hour at a friend's house, which isn't really troon-related but does show a great shift in the handmaiden, boys-will-be-boys mentality, and with how prominent the incel to troon pipeline is, more and more normies will notice that Hitler Jr wants to cut off his peepee and go spinny in skirts.
I can't see things getting better for us very soon but I can definitely see the West following South Korean women's footsteps with women becoming volcels and governments being pressured into getting rid of the worst shit online, or restricting access to porn, or raising the minimum age for social media.

No. 2052697

File: 1718629346037.png (14.86 KB, 469x157, its the terfs fault.PNG)

>>2052675
>even the wokiest uwu gender babbies on Tumblr are complaining about feminism vanishing
kek its crazy to see but its true. i saw picrel a few days ago with like 4k notes, the funniest part is that im pretty sure the op of this post is a TiM with no self awareness.

No. 2052698

>>2052697
It’s insane how they can pin the blame on women for EVERYTHING

No. 2052760

File: 1718634778916.jpg (8.05 KB, 235x224, 5546423c941d76a03d05f2166f6f2f…)

i recently learned that a friend i haven't spoken to in a very long time has transitioned. i fell out of touch with her years ago when i stopped using social media and didn't make an effort to keep in contact with her because she was becoming so different from the person i once knew, but in hindsight i can't help feeling some regret even if realistically i know there was nothing i could have said or done that would have stopped her from doing this to herself. she was a huge libfem who parroted all their usual talking points yet repeatedly made life-ruining decisions regarding some truly disgusting moids that were upsetting for me to witness. i tried my best to support her through everything but it was painful for me to see my intelligent, bright, and kind-hearted friend abandon all logic and repeatedly derail her life for the kind of moids that most women wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. eventually i had to accept that i was powerless to do anything about it and started gradually distancing myself before ending contact entirely. i thought of her the other day and looked her up only to discover that she now identifies as male, has changed her name and appearance, and has some extremely retarded views including the belief that biological sex is not real. in addition to her problems with men she had an extremely dysfunctional upbringing and struggled with identity issues so she was exactly the kind of person this movement targets. now when i think of her i feel so overwhelmingly sad and ashamed of myself for not having been a better friend. i know her choices are not my responsibility or my fault but i certainly didn't help matters by giving up on her.

No. 2052797

>>2052760
It's ok, Nonna, you are mourning a person that doesn't exist anymore, but instead of being actually dead, their shell still lives and you have that faint sliver of hope, that it all could become good again. But you have no control over that. You have to accept what she is now and move on. You tried your best, it's not in your control what others do.

No. 2052825

File: 1718639853173.jpeg (146.06 KB, 621x554, 1715183401489.jpeg)

(Didn't know for sure if I should share here or on 2X so yeah)(first post deleted because I used a wrong word) - picrel unrelated
Ah nonnas I feel relieved. So TLDR I was once (in 2020) a TRA and I identified as nonbinary/agender but I did not support TiMs, I always knew what's up with them and what's their intention. Right so after I peaked and I became critical of this gender movement I started dropping hints at my best friend, usually showing her creepy MtFs. We've never had a more serious convo on this trans topic up until recently, yesterday. IN THE FUCKING TRAIN KEK. Although, we've only talked about TiFs/FtMs and we both agreed on everything. I told her in more detail about why I took the nonbinary/agender label and how most of the time there's a pattern in women that do this (more vulnerable tomboys etc). We also both agreed on how femboys/traps are showcasing sexist stereotypes of "Femininity" and how they get off on them and how most of them aren't homosexuals because they get off at the thought of "femininity" portraying women as an idea/object because of porn addiction. We also talked about how male sexuality is mouldable depending on the man (hence the trannies who have the most depraved fetishes like ABDL/lolicon/etc). We briefly talked about MtFs/TiMs who do this (except the femboys/traps who are (most of them) AGP almost-trannies) because we arrived at the station and had to go to our homes.
I'll call her today when she gets home and we might talk more about this.

No. 2052834

>>2052760
hindsight is 20/20.
>>2052797
in all likelihood she will detransition. a lot of women come around to the realization that it's all a larp

No. 2052853

>>2052825
Happy for you nona, I'm glad you have a friend to talk terfy things to

No. 2052881

I've been seeing something recently where mtfs online claim that mtfs on her have a 'period' like biological women. How does that logic even work? Some even say they have 'everything' the bleeding. So then it's just a hormone cycle? I try to have sympathy but shit like this makes me feel like I'm going to peak

No. 2052884

>>2052881
That's just a delusion they have and/or online role play they engage in. Even their fellow trannies think that's insane (I listen to tranny podcasts to see what they're saying about all this shit and even they know the ones who claim to menstruate are crazy).

No. 2052901

>>2052884
Which podcasts do you listen to?

No. 2052908

>>2052834
i hope you are right. she had a child after we parted ways which is part of what makes the entire thing so sad. the father is a deadbeat so she is raising them as a single parent and i imagine it was confusing for her to go from their mother to a themby to a man. if she detransitioned that would create even further confusion.

No. 2052910

>>2052825
That’s not how it works, men attracted to feminine men like men, women attracted ti masculine women like women. No man is attracted to someone with a dick and “heterosexual” because they’re fetishising femininity.

No. 2052912

File: 1718645230274.jpeg (264.82 KB, 750x789, IMG_0463.jpeg)

>>2052881
That’s just horny retardation from them nonnie. They not only do not have the organs to menstruate but their hormones are a constant dosage of estrogen rather than the fluctuation a woman has. They never get the lower estrogen and spiking progesterone of the luteal phase which is what causes premenstrual discomfort.

Autogynephilia comes in more than one flavor. This specific retardation is physiologic autogynephilia. I also think they get off on transplaining to women how our bodies work.

No. 2052922

>>2052645
I agree. She's trying to make it sound like everything was calculated and totally not like other tifs while also saying that what she did was irrational. And trying to sound like her taking male hormones is good actually because she's some type of gendie vigilante that peaks people. Give me a break. And saying shit about removing your breasts while also removing hers herself. The spergery on this one is so real, she has male anatomy inside and decided to transition to not be a female anymore and keeps saying how good it was for her but still has the nerve to she's one of us actually, while getting to have male privilege with male anatomy. I respect normal tifs more than this individual deluding herself into thinking her condition makes her "one of the good, intelligent ones" if I'm honest. I do see her as female because of my ethics but she's getting on my nerves. I'm trying to be someone who doesn't exclude intersexuality in my radical feminism very hard here.

No. 2052925

>>2052884
I'm sorry and I bet your research is interesting but I can't imagine myself listening to fucking tranny podcasts for hours just to see what kind of regurgitated twitter nonsense they're up to. Like imagine being that obsessed. I just side eye them.

No. 2052929

>>2052884
Have you noticed that even trannies are starting to get tired of the crazier trannies? I felt like I was starting to see that, but hand maidens are becoming even stronger so it wasn't really talked about.

No. 2052930

>>2052908
This. You can like women without fetishizing femininity. People who masturbate to troons tend to have some type of hypersexual fetish themselves.

No. 2052947

>>2052881
They dont even have a cycle. At most they get similar side effects as women on birth control or taking estrogen for menopause.

No. 2052955

>>2051868
>the effects I have experienced from transitioning and they have eliminated anything equivocal to dysphoria that I experienced prior to any intervention. I really don’t know what the explanation for this would be in all honesty
With all due respect, it's the same delusional "gender euphoria" (it comes in many degrees and intensities) that tifs have and it doesn't really matter if you were born intersex or not, your body didn't naturally crave and chose either sex hormone and you had to go and chose male hormones while still thinking you were completely biologically female. It might make you feel good, or neutral, and you might not have the same neurotic / psychotic problems other trans identified females have. But you still are talking about fixing dysphoria with hormones. Honestly your whole post makes me feel like I'm getting mansplained in the "hello my fellow females" kind of way and I know you do have an uterus and a cervix therefore I don't feel comfortable judging you like I would a male, but you are trying to get rid of all your female biologically traits while parading around how good taking male hormones are for you, actually. I'm not even sure if you count as someone who went through female socialization either, I applaud your parents for trying to raise you in a gender neutral / non conforming way but you still chose the gender cult answer long before even realizing you are intersex. I can't even really feel comfortable judging you because being intersex is such an unique experience. But I will judge you based on your character. If you were trying to peak a bunch of anons about intersex people, then congrats, you really did it.

No. 2052958

>>2052947
>>2052881
Their "periods" are just diarrhea cramps.

No. 2052966

File: 1718648101377.jpeg (85.03 KB, 412x512, IMG_3158.jpeg)


No. 2052972

>>2052825
Just fyi picrel means pic related, so picrel unrelated doesn't make sense.

No. 2053241

>>2051176
AYRT and I don't think intersex males should be allowed in women's sports but that anon did not seem to be interested in women's sports. Socially speaking if someone grows up with a female phenotype and assumed to be female (which is quite rare as usually they test for these things at birth) it makes sense that they would have a 'female socialization' and experience though.

No. 2053269

Straight male friend said he identifies as a lesbian because he prefers their fashion. Women's clothes are too pink and girly, men's clothes are too boring, but lesbians clothes are just right. He played it off as a joke, but I know he's obsessed with gender shit. I just don't understand how we got to the point where people can just say stuff like that so flippantly. If I walked around saying I identify as black because I like rap and watermelons people would rightfully call me a racist asshole. Why is it okay to treat lesbians like a fucking fashion accessory? It's so fucking gross but he thinks he's a better person than you for being open-minded like what the fuck.

No. 2053277

>>2053269
He's coming out as as ''''transbian'''' in 3…2…1… Run nonnie run! Is he severely addicted to pornography?

No. 2053310

>>2053269
The fight against racism implies that you defend men in addition to women. Progressive men have a strong sense of solidarity and a weird tribalistic alliance with non-white men that's very apparent in activist spheres, so they take it pretty seriously (at least in discourse). Lesbians are just women, there's no incentive for solidarity, so normie vaguely progressive men don't see the problem when it comes to saying things like 'i'm a male lesbian'. The category 'black woman' also suffers from this disregard in comparison to the broader 'people of color'. This is why gendies love implying black women are a kind of male and so we should all be honored to welcome greasy white TiMs.
Also i'm pretty sure your friend is at least a little AGP. It's hard to say because 'he looks like a lesbian' is a common online joke and people like to play with LGBT stuff to churn out unfunny content, but this sounds suspicious. It's not that he thinks flannels and piercings and fitted suits are simply better (men wear those too), he probably loves that it's worn by women and so if he understands and appreciates it, then he is a kind of woman himself even if he doesn't troon out. 'Obsessed with gender/feminism' and ironically 'relating' to lesbians is 100% an AGP red flag

No. 2053366

>>2052929
Yes. Even the trannies are getting sick of it. Have you looked at Buck Angel's instagram, for instance? It's almost all split screens calling out AGPs/crossdressers kek. (Although in her case I think it's an attempt to paint the more deranged personalities as bad actors or something? I'm not an expert on her.)
That redscare/chapo-adjacent pod Seeking Derangements has Hesse as a host and he and their other tranny guests are often saying stuff about troons that would get you cancelled if you weren't trans yourself, as harsh as any shock jock shit. Even the mainstream ones or the famous drag ones (Bald & The Beautiful, Sibling Rivalry, No Gorge, nymphowars) will do some side-eying at the more outlandish shit, although they are still very supportive so it's very mild criticism or they'll joke around it or satirize it.
There's also the zoomer dragrace era personalities like @oliveugly that have long youtube essays about how the current approach of the trans community is bad (vidrel)

No. 2053382

>>2053269 nonna…… cut him off before he starts saying suggestive things toward you, esp if you're a lesbian. he's gonna try to use you as his experiment eventually, once the frog has been sitting in warm water for a while and he feels confident with turning up the heat.

No. 2053458

>>2053269
"Lesbian fashion" on men is literally just normal men's clothes. He should just identify as Adam Sandler.

No. 2053490

>>2053269
is this an online friend?

No. 2053549

>>2053277
He loves thicc waifus and implies that he's into some degen shit but never talks details. I think he suspects I'm terfy so he was probably testing the water. It sucks because otherwise he's got really cool non-degen interests and is overall a chill person to be around. It's just when tranny shit comes up that he gets hyper defensive, so I knew it was only a matter of time. He seemed self aware enough to not go all the way but I don't know anymore.

>>2053310
It's a bitter pill to swallow but it makes sense. He always seemed aggressively pro feminist and anti-male, which I guess in hindsight is a red flag. Looking back I think he just really has a thing for grungy alt girls who don't shave and hates guys who are more masculine than himself kek.

>>2053382
He has a girlfriend so I'm more worried about her honestly.

>>2053490
Unfortunately no. We have a mutual friend group so it would be difficult to cut him off, too.

No. 2053550

>>2053549
Just out of curiosity what are the non-degen interests? The type of person who is usually into degen shit enough to publicly talk about it with friends usually has 'degen interests' in my experience.

NTAYRT but yes moids being 'aggressively pro feminist' and/or 'aggressively anti-male' is always a giant red flag.

No. 2053554

>>2053550
by "non-degen" she means anime and fursuits, calling it now. she sounds like she's 15.

No. 2053559

>>2053550
I don't want to go into too much detail, but in general both retro and modern technology (he's always got some new tech he's repairing or modding), artsy shit (he's genuinely talented in his domain and comes up with novel concepts), dolls/fashion (he's more secretive with this one), and videogames. I genuinely enjoy talking about the various projects either of us are working on, sharing ideas and helping solve random issues that crop up. He's just a very creative and interesting individual and he keeps the degen shit to himself aside from a random comment every once in a while.

No. 2053574

>>2053559
This is why you don't befriend moids

No. 2053575

>>2053559
Naw that nigga gay

No. 2053656

>>2053559
I mean a lot of these interests I would class as typically degen interests (video games, tech depending on the tech, artsy shit depending on the art, and dolls/fashion) when moids do it. But I understand that you feel you get something out of the relationship and discussing your interests, so can you get him not to talk about gendie shit with you ever? If not he's just using you as a handmaiden for his degeneracy even if he has a gf that's probably worse affected than you.

>>2053574
I have befriended quite a few moids who genuinely never ever in 10+ years of knowing them have ever breathed a word of degeneracy to me but they have genuinely non-degen interests and are extremely offline.



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