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No. 1978406
Previous
>>1972829Thread to discuss the phenomenon of "fujoshi", the women that identify as such and the women who criticise it.
To a latter extent, discuss also the phenomenon of "yumejoshi" and "himejoshi", especially when it comes to the yume vs. fujo feud.
Discuss the history of fujoshism, speculate on its reasons, argue your opinion on it and exchange intelligent views with other farmers.
Topics include:
>Is the fujoshi-to-TIF pipeline real, or merely a symptom of something else?>Do fujoshi self-insert in the uke and/or seme? Or do fujoshi simply look at slash couples in a voyeuristic manner?>What is your view on the early 2000s phenomenon of identifying as a fujoshi "but not supporting real life homos"? >Is being a fujoshi a way of escaping misogyny, or does it reinforce it?>What is your opinion on omegaverse, and the het omegaverse which followed? >Are fujos addicted to pornography? Are yumes?>Why is fujo stuff so popular in Japan, a highly conservative, homophobic and misogynistic society? >Can yumes and fujos be friends?New questions:
>Are lesbian fujoshi actually a thing? >Why do fujos look at, draw and talk about yaoi together, while moids who enjoy hentai do so completely alone in their gooncaves?>Are women who enjoy "male character with chopped tits and/or a vag" actually fujoshi? If not, what are they? >Why do you think so meny supposed straight content made for women caters to men?>Do you think there is a problemwhen it comes to female sexualization when it comes to josei smut?
Be respectful and do not infight. Honest discussion only.
No. 1978414
>>1978385Voice works also don't count apparently, even though those are pretty damn fucking good and there's a lot of them
No reason given at all though
>>1978383There's fujos who self-insert and not every non-fujo is a "hetfag" (AKA likes low quality TL manga), keep coping
With how obsessed you are with denying that fujos ever self-insert, I bet you actually do it yourself from time to time and are too ashamed to admit it kek
Get it through your thick skull: stating simple facts about fujos is not criticizing them
No. 1978480
Let me answer the questions in OP, because everyone here really really wants to know my thoughts on yaoi.
>Do fujoshi self-insert in the uke and/or seme? Or do fujoshi simply look at slash couples in a voyeuristic manner?
100% vouyeristic. It's not even just the sex, but the romanticism is also vouyeristic. It's about the escapism for me.
>What is your view on the early 2000s phenomenon of identifying as a fujoshi "but not supporting real life homos"?
I've been a fujo since the late 90s and I have to say I've never even seen this. Maybe it's bc I'm not american and only learned english much later, but the fandoms I participated in, in my language, were very pro LGBT irl.
>Is being a fujoshi a way of escaping misogyny, or does it reinforce it?
Possibly. I'm a heterosexual man hater, so the aspect of by-women-for-women helps me read about men in romantic and sexual situations knowing that not only are they not real moids, but also they're female fantasies. That makes them non-threatening and it means that they belong to women.
>What is your opinion on omegaverse, and the het omegaverse which followed?
Dislike. I'm into fujoshit for the romance as well as the sex, and omegaverse "romance" really isn't at all. They're not falling in love with each other, they're being commanded by hormones, so there's no need for them to even get to know each other. My dick got hard because of your smell, so we're in love now I guess. Same for het omegaverse. Also the concept of mpreg is nasty to me.
>Are fujos addicted to pornography? Are yumes?
I particularly don't watch porn or read hentai, and I consume very little pornographic yaoi and fanfic. This assumption is misogynistic. You're baasically saying that any degree of sexuality in a woman is an addiction, taking away our right to have a libido.
>Why is fujo stuff so popular in Japan, a highly conservative, homophobic and misogynistic society?
Girl idk.
>Can yumes and fujos be friends?
Why not? Why do we have to fight? Fujos who hate yumes and yumes who hate fujos, please explain it to me.
No. 1978498
>>1978471>the uke is just a girl but maleso… not a girl
get a grip. a dong is a dong
No. 1978629
>>1978480I'm this bitch, answering the other quetsions that I didnt see bc im retarded.
>Are lesbian fujoshi actually a thing? Why not?
>Why do fujos look at, draw and talk about yaoi together, while moids who enjoy hentai do so completely alone in their gooncaves?Do they? I don't have many male friends and I don't talk about porn with the ones I do have. I imagine they talk about and share porn and hentai. Just seems like the male thing to do.
>Are women who enjoy "male character with chopped tits and/or a vag" actually fujoshi? If not, what are they? They're absolutely not fujoshi. They're women whose brains have been rotted by genderism. I'll go as far as to say that it's all a performance for them. They don't have an inner world anymore, they're completely consumed by the persona they want to project, so much so that they can't differentiate the creature they created in order to be accepted by other gendies on socmed from their real selves. Gendies do not exist unless they're perceived. So, girls who write and who jerk off to FTM porn are simply doing so bc it's the "right side of history" thing to do. It's sad, they have lost the capacity to feel and think for themselves.
>Why do you think so meny supposed straight content made for women caters to men?Because women are not supposed to sexualize men. We are allowed to sexualize each other and ourselves. That's why porn for women still focuses on the woman being penetrated, the noises she makes, her expressions, etc., and why women who consume content that sexualizes men, are considered degenerates. We are encouraged to sexualize and objectify ourselves and our peers. The act of being objectified and sexualized is seen as being part of womanhood, because that's what our existance is to society: sex.
>Do you think there is a problem when it comes to female sexualization when it comes to josei smut?I don't think female sexualization is inherently bad, so no, I don't think there's an inherent problem there. Instances of sexualization can be
problematic, though.
No. 1978670
>Are lesbian fujoshi actually a thing?
Not likely. They're just straight women who say 2D is better than 3DPD like hentai obsessed moids do
>Why do fujos look at, draw and talk about yaoi together, while moids who enjoy hentai do so completely alone in their gooncaves?
Women in fandoms are more social than men for some reason.
>Are women who enjoy "male character with chopped tits and/or a vag" actually fujoshi? If not, what are they?
No, and they're dangerously close to falling for the fujo to tif pipeline. Enjoying a vagina on a man is the same thinking as trans people no matter how you spin it
>Why do you think so many supposed straight content made for women caters to men?
It doesn't, it's just a fault of society and how women see themselves in it. Women like to draw the female protagonist as attractive, or they may seem weak and meager because they want to see a shy and timid girl get the boy in life for once. It's projection, wishing they were a stacy, which I understand, but an attractive female protagonist does not mean that it caters to men.
>Do you think there is a problem when it comes to female sexualization when it comes to josei smut?
Somewhat, but I don't care. I like that the men are hot and cater to women. I just wish there wasn't so much sexual assault or rape. I think that's a problem in a lot of yaoi as well though. I don't know why women have this kink so much
No. 1978716
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>Are lesbian fujoshi actually a thing?
eh the more i think of it I doubt it. you dont see fully gay men into yuri in the same fashion so called lesbians enjoy yaoi. I've seen gay men that maybe enjoyed the relationship between two girls but it was mainly in a platonic fashion and it didnt go any further than that. "lesbians" that are into yaoi for some reason think of male characters in a sexual manner more often than actual het/bi fujos would kek
>Why do fujos look at, draw and talk about yaoi together, while moids who enjoy hentai do so completely alone in their gooncaves?
idk what corners of the internet youre on but every anime/hobby im interested in have moids that are extremely loud about the porn of the characters they consume etc. Its pretty much an expectation. if anything fujos seem to be the ones in there own corners
>Are women who enjoy "male character with chopped tits and/or a vag" actually fujoshi? If not, what are they?
yeah as much as men that enjoy yuri pairings with futa in it are still yurifags at the end of the day. its just a fetish added onto another fetish, just for some reason fujos will cope by saying its representation instead of just being real and saying they like drawing men with vaginas and chest scars because they find it hot.
>Why do you think so meny supposed straight content made for women caters to men?
because men are the ones obsessing over and buying the products. most women are busy living their lives and otaku women that have the money to splurge on their hobbies are rare to come by
>Do you think there is a problem when it comes to female sexualization when it comes to josei smut?
no
No. 1978724
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No. 1978734
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>>1978727I come share my enlightened knowledge and this is how you treat me
No. 1978742
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>>1978002Do fujos ever realize how disgusting and misogynistic they are with omegaverse/mpreg, no amount of cope that it is a apparently 'niche' will dissuade me from this absolute hatred I feel when I see this mocking or comparing actual human pregnancy to their porn addict fetish.
No. 1978747
>Why do you think so many supposed straight content made for women caters to men?
I don't think it actually does.
Now, hear me out, and I can't speak for everything so take this with a grain of salt. I think that, while historically men did have control over what 'content for women' was, over time that has become less so, especially when it comes to self-published content online. Their influence has effected what appears in said content, but it doesn't actually cater to them. There's a whole lot of 'bad code' in the dna of the romance genre, for example, that causes a bunch of seemingly outdated ideas to continuously reappear, and if you shift over to the smut side these tropes only become more obvious and exaggerated as they've also solidified into common enough kinks/fetishes as each generation of writers and readers passes them on to the next and alters them in a game of literary telephone.
This happens even faster with online media, as it has little to no publication requirements. You also see similar things within yaoi/slash as those communities go through trends or bottleneck into niche communities. It's also been discussed previously that, due to it being more prolific/seen as the default, the visual language, tropes and quirks of porn for men end up showing in media meant for women, which can make it confusing at a glance who the work is really for. Hopefully over time this will fall out of vogue as female-oriented smut gains a firmer grasp on its own visual language and shorthands. Sperg over kek
No. 1978796
File: 1713987890631.png (527.91 KB, 753x2559, fujotifs.png)
>multiple tifs openly admitting they transitioned cause of yaoi
No. 1978856
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>this retarded thread made it to 3 threads alone
you fuckheads can’t be bothered to have a normal conversation anymore. no more good morning, no more good afternoon, just the same dumb shit bringing fujos to /ot/ so they can ruin the board with their sperging. why can’t the mods just lock this already?
No. 1978885
>Is the fujoshi-to-TIF pipeline real, or merely a symptom of something else?
I don't think being a fujo necessarily causes one to troon out, but it's how gender ideology pairs so well with romanticizing being a man and having a same-sex relationship where the dynamics are (supposedly) more equal. Back then, most fujos were aware they were just women who enjoyed seeing BL and had no problem admitting that, but as gender ideology seeped into fandom spaces and proposed the idea that you can, in fact, be a gay man even if you weren't born as one, a lot of them started calling themselves men. Social contagion played a role in exacerbating this.
>Do fujoshi self-insert in the uke and/or seme? Or do fujoshi simply look at slash couples in a voyeuristic manner?
I don't think fujoshi self-insert, but they definitely lean toward empathizing with one of the characters better. I think it's more obvious if you read any smut fic and notice the way the POV is written. It's usually written from the bottom's POV, and if it's written from the top's POV, it feels strangely focused on the bottom's pleasure and reactions rather than the top's. Of course this is all anecdotal and depends on your fandom/ship.
>What is your view on the early 2000s phenomenon of identifying as a fujoshi "but not supporting real life homos"?
Back then I didn't understand how you can enjoy BL but not support gay men irl, but I can see why now. 2D men are drawn in a style that is aesthetically pleasing, plus they don't have many of the negative traits that real life men have. I think the same argument can apply to yumes liking fictional husbandos, but not wanting to date men irl.
>Is being a fujoshi a way of escaping misogyny, or does it reinforce it?
Most fujoshi just enjoy BL because they like seeing attractive men, and like to see romance on top of that. I never saw the misogyny argument being brought up until fujos were called "gay men fetishizers". I do think some fujos are more critical toward female characters than male characters though. There are times when the male characters genuinely are written better and have more screentime; you'll mostly see this in shounen (because they're male characters written by men), but there are also times when a female character and male character are equally poorly written, but the female character gets shit on way more by fandom. And by shit on, I don't mean that fujos just ignore her, but will go out of their way to write rants on why she's terribly written and such a bad love interest for their favorite male character compared to the male best friend who they ship him with.
>What is your opinion on omegaverse, and the het omegaverse which followed?
It started out as some weird trope where you apply animal dynamics to smut, and has become synonymous with TIF/intersex/PIV sex because of the mpreg aspect. I rarely see this trope written well. The characters are turned OOC to force them to fit into the mold of a dom alpha x sub omega. It feels like I'm reading heterosexual dynamics/BDSM in disguise whenever I give an omegaverse fic a try. Not to mention how the omegas are often feminized and called "wife" or "princess"… I can definitely see why people think this trope is steeped in misogyny.
>Are fujos addicted to pornography? Are yumes?
No, it comes down to the individual. There are fujos who just want to see their favorite boys in fluffy scenarios, and there are fujos who can only talk about gay sex and have to make everything sexual. Likewise, there are yumes who just want to see and make cute content of their husbando, and there are yumes who have to hornypost 24/7 about their husbando's dick.
>Can yumes and fujos be friends?
Yes. Maybe you won't actively engage in each other's content, but you can still support each other.
>Are lesbian fujoshi actually a thing?
I'll be honest, I have yet to encounter a lesbian fujoshi OR yumejo in my fandom spaces that didn't come across as bi or straight. Many of the lesbian fujoshi I see will actively consume and create M/M smut and talk about dicks, and yes they have admitted to masturbating to it and not just reading/writing for the feels. They rarely talk about female characters/yuri, and if they do, it feels very performative. They think genderbending their favorite yaoi ship in fanart counts as enjoying yuri, but you will never see them talking about canonical female characters or F/F smut. The lesbian yumejo I know is even more blatant in her obvious attraction to men because all she does is write straight sex of herself with her husbando and talks about his dick. I have met one lesbian who does read BL occasionally, but it's only for fun and she doesn't get off to it. She actually reads yuri way more. I don't doubt that lesbians can enjoy BL, I just don't think they're the same as the "lesbian" fujos who are constantly talking about their favorite male characters.
>Are women who enjoy "male character with chopped tits and/or a vag" actually fujoshi? If not, what are they?
They are fujoshi who have memed themselves into liking cuntboy fetish/enjoy heterosexual dynamics but feel safer projecting it onto two male characters. There are lots of old-school fujos who have trooned out with the rise of gender ideology, but that doesn't discredit the fact that they were (and still are) fujos. And there have always been fujos who like heterosexual dynamics in M/M ships, and now you see it coming to an extreme with TIFs. You can say that the small, submissive uke x big, aggressive seme trope is no longer popular, but the characterizations are still there. The bottom is more likely to be cared for, protected, and comforted by the top. Most fujos TIFs are straight so they project their heterosexuality onto gay characters.
No. 1978905
>Is the fujoshi-to-TIF pipeline real, or merely a symptom of something else?
Misogyny and autism plays a way bigger role
>Do fujoshi self-insert in the uke and/or seme? Or do fujoshi simply look at slash couples in a voyeuristic manner?
Fujos tend to get attached to ukes more than to semes, sometimes their behaviour reminds me of shoujofags who worship the heroine more. But I don't think it's self-insertion, rather they either see them as a husbando OR they see them as a comfort character or their son. There are some fujo ships where people could argue that self-insertion does actually happen though, like 14 yrs ago sebaciel fujos were definetly self-inserting as ciel. The hotter the seme is, the more you can expect this to happen. But I think usually it's a form of voyeurism or wanting to see their husbando getting pounded cause as I said, ukes are more appealing to fujos. Semes are probably more appealing to yumejoshi
>What is your view on the early 2000s phenomenon of identifying as a fujoshi "but not supporting real life homos"?
It's dumb
>Is being a fujoshi a way of escaping misogyny, or does it reinforce it?
Escaping misogyny to some extent, but at the end of the day it's just a hobby like many other
>What is your opinion on omegaverse, and the het omegaverse which followed?
Gross and retarded and lowkey misogynistic, and I've always hated mpreg and butt babies
>Are fujos addicted to pornography? Are yumes?
Maybe some are, but I'm not
>Why is fujo stuff so popular in Japan, a highly conservative, homophobic and misogynistic society?
BL tends to thrive in conservative societies, like it's banned in china and this is not stopping any chinese fujos
>Can yumes and fujos be friends?
It's super easy if the fujo ships A x B and the yume husbando is an unrelated character like C but if the yume husbando A or B they need to learn to tolerate each other and that might be a bit difficult if the yume is totally against any gay ship
>Are lesbian fujoshi actually a thing?
Yes
>Why do fujos look at, draw and talk about yaoi together, while moids who enjoy hentai do so completely alone in their gooncaves?
Simple, women prefer communities and fandoms and some of them seek validation from their female peers
>Are women who enjoy "male character with chopped tits and/or a vag" actually fujoshi? If not, what are they?
Ugh I hate this but technically if they still enjoy the ship in their original form and are not strictly into chopped tits, they are fujoshi. A weird brand of TiF-leaning fujoshi. If they're strictly into chopped tits they're just yume aidens
>Why do you think so meny supposed straight content made for women caters to men?
Brainwashed to the moid gaze from a young age, it's a systemic problem
>Do you think there is a problem
when it comes to female sexualization when it comes to josei smut?
Kek yes
No. 1978947
>>1978765 But the thing is what was the logic of there being a panel next to it showing her body? It would have been way more coherent to display her face
in the panel, capturing her expression in the heat of moment lmao
No. 1978948
>>1978946>You have to admit it's really strange to go>nuh I don't want to see m/f relationships but if it's the same coomershit but with m/m I'll vibe with that.No, I don't think it's strange to have different reactions to bad things happening to a woman versus bad things happening to a man.
The reason why it's doesn't get brought up in fujo circles is because that
should be plainly obvious.
Do you think men jerking to ryona go "I love seeing women getting beaten up but if this was a man, I would not be happy about it."
No. 1979101
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fujos are based to me only because its one of the few spaces on the internet where AGP's dont gather. I'd rather deal with a confused TIP than a TIM any day of the week.
No. 1979160
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>>1978406>Why do you think so meny supposed straight content made for women caters to men?I have no idea. I don't mind big titty female MCs but I mind when the male MCs in them aren't nearly as porny and when all the focus is on the woman.
>Do you think there is a problem when it comes to female sexualization when it comes to josei smut?Yes. Too much fucking focus on the woman. The peak hetero sexy art is when those women who ship Bulma and Vegeta draw them getting nasty because there's an actual heterosexual fun dynamic on display where there is focus on both characters but mostly on the man, because, you know, it's made by a heterosexual woman. I kind of envy fangirls of this ship because they get the real good content. Hetero drawn this way is as good as yaoi drawn with intense autistic love for a ship. (pic not lewd but partially related to what I'm saying)
No. 1979166
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Seeing how most people in this thread seem to agree that lesbian fujos are not actually lesbians, what do you think is the cause of this behavior? Lack of self-awareness/extreme autism? IRL man hating? Wanting to be cool with the homos? Internalized biphobia? All of above?
No. 1979195
>>1979181I think this "but they only date women hence they are lesbians" argument is dumb. Are febfems lesbians too? Obviously not. What determines sexual orientation is sexual attraction. A bisexual female can date women her whole life and she still would be a bisexual because she's sexually attracted to males as well even if she doesn't act on it IRL.
>tifs/enbies who only date each other and roleplay yaoiI find it funny that usually those TIFs that you mention will exclusively fuck men once they get on T (possibly the raise in libido makes them realize that they're not sexually attracted to women or not nearly as much as they thought).
No. 1979346
File: 1714033103379.png (25.48 KB, 761x707, autistic theory.png)
This is how it is.
No. 1979358
File: 1714034764585.png (96.64 KB, 676x791, 1685723077512.png)
>>1979346This is it, girls. It's been solved. We can all go home now
No. 1979409
File: 1714039043242.gif (1.45 MB, 534x338, R.gif)
>>1978406anti fujos still spouting the same old arguments that have been already dismantled…can this thread die already its just the same old slapfight again and again
or atleast autosaged No. 1979417
File: 1714039631836.jpeg (142.91 KB, 828x909, IMG_2611.jpeg)
>>1979367Ah shit here we go again
No. 1979452
>>1979446Being vague because I'm paranoid, but basically a character that's a perfect green flag, the devoted forever will marry you if you just say it and take care of the house while you work type. Also has a big dick
So yeah never getting a 3dpd like that ever lmao
No. 1979528
>Are lesbian fujoshi actually a thing?
I know several. They exist, they undoubtedly exist. It didn't make sense at first but after lurking a few fujo threads and sites on the topic, it really started to click and made me feel better for liking yuri despite being a straight woman. Lesbians are so use to seeing other perspectives due to a lack of their own that yaoi just came naturally to them.
>Why do fujos look at, draw and talk about yaoi together, while moids who enjoy hentai do so completely alone in their gooncaves?
Fujos are women and therefore more inclined to social activities and sharing than men. Men are so afraid of gayness that any interactions with other men beyond apefights and bitch slaps is considered gay pussy shit. I'm dead serious about that one. Knew a few guys who unironically didn't care if most of his friend group dies, cuz fuck them am I right? meanwhile women would fight and tooth and nail if it meant helping each other when times were rough.
>Are women who enjoy "male character with chopped tits and/or a vag" actually fujoshi? If not, what are they?
They're fujos with extra steps in my opinion. What it boils down to is the uke is often seen as woman so naturally the tif takes the uke and does so but keeps the seme intact for whatever reason. It's why you rarely see a cis uke and trans seme because the tif is projecting projecting herself to the uke, thus making them more like them.
>Why do you think so many supposed straight content made for women caters to men?
As long as men have a say in works besides more niche mediums, straight romance will always be marred by pozzed character development, sexist tropes, and ass backwards premises that wouldn't be out of place in a braindead fanfiction. You could have swore a 13 year old boy wrote some of them until you realized the huge pickme problem in booktok lately.
>Do you think there is a problem when it comes to female sexualization when it comes to josei smut?
I read het romance to see two hotties doing the deed but I am partial to the fmc being the homely one while the mmc is considered the hot one. One too many times have media sold the hot wife ugly husband trope that started becuase insecure moids hated the thought of women settling for actual chads and not fail males.
No. 1979623
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>Is the fujoshi-to-TIF pipeline real, or merely a symptom of something else
All he/hims I ever have encountered was into some form of gay shipping - anime or not, that’s just what I know firsthand.
>Are fujos addicted to pornography? Are yumes?
Once again, I am talking about people I knew/knew of. I have plenty weeb and nonweeb slashers who are into gay male relationships, inevitably into porn of that kind also. And for them it’s always about gays, anything at all: being this ancient philosophy or kiddie morning show. Everybody gay, if they do show some signs of not being gay, specifically - oh that’s because they are internally confused or something. Every interaction of people/characters are about sex, there is no other possibilities. I don’t know, I’d say if your mind occupied by porn categories, then yes, you are addicted to porn, because you experience the world through porn lens. To complain how fragile and triggered moids are for not getting jokes about how they all fucking in a gym, while, would imagine, wouldn’t be so amused by a moid’s joke about “yall fucking at sleepovers” or whatever - I don’t know even. You could say “but it’s different because misogyny”, but the fuck it’s not - the same pornbrain mentality, imo.
Yume pornbrain - from what I saw in the wilderness - is similar, especially when there are certain unusual preferences - it’s shoving sex stuff into everyday life, projecting, sexualizing, sharing their distorted reality.
Both cases are all about obsession of something romantic and thus something sexual - do they look for romance in porn? Or do they “shield” by romance to obsess over porn? I am not an expert on male gay romance manga or media overall - is nonporn bl more popular than pvp? Like, you know, shoujo romance is more popular than tl. Is this about looking for a woman-written love story without any possible distractions for one’s vulnerability? And most of what they get is porn, because editors think “sex sells”? Idk because there is a giant mass of nonprofit gay pornfics.
>Are lesbian fujoshi actually a thing?
Aprox 80% slasher/fujo girls I know are some kind of “lesbian”. I use ironic quotation exactly because it’s dubious and just stupid. Okay, woman-written romance, okay no misogyny. But like. Being a lesbian and being obsessed over some korean moid or a harem of several male characters. What. Roleplaying male gay sex with gf, sex in cosplay of said male characters. Multiple merchandise, memorabilia of some moid/s. Point of having a naked sexualized fanart of a geriatric man on your phone wallpaper while being a lesbian? Userpics of k webnovel muscleman? Writing literal love poems on socials to a male character? I just don’t get it. I am straight and do have a waifu (I know, cringe), but I don’t what her to be engaged in any sexual activity, maybe slightly erotic. So it’s a mystery, mindset like that.
>Why do you think so meny supposed straight content made for women caters to men?
Because they made hentai for men and tl also for men and women, trying to cater to everyone - hrr drr there is a female in the straight story after all, so there is a female body we can use, so why don’t we do it. This is ultra dumb. Seeing japanese smut for women (presumably) and seeing that the focus is always fucking always on female body, often her chest, take a look, nearly every manga cover depict a guy undressing a female mc. And in sex scenes they always undress female characters ignoring male ones. So when big companies artists are doing this (because of editors and creative effective whatever managers), of course indie artists would do the same for money.
No. 1979675
File: 1714056099399.jpg (222.25 KB, 768x512, whatis_toranoana_01.jpg)
>>1979641>Non porn bl is popular/common enoughNayrt but while non porn BL does exist you should take a stroll down toranoana in Ikebukuro, nonna. 90% of everything in there is porn BL. So it's a bit disingenuous to say that westerners make more porn BL than the Japanese, from first-hand experience that's not the case at all. I'd say both sides have an even share of non-porn to porn BL with porn BL overwhelmingly dominating.
No. 1979703
>>1979689 cover "western" with your finger when reading
>>1979641 if it makes you feel better.
No. 1979754
>>1979746Don't reply to bait,
nonny.
>>1979741idk if I'd call myself a fujo since I read many other genres as well, but I'm doing my nu carnival dailies and poking a dude's nipples as we speak so maybe you can count me in part. I don't frequent the BL thread on /m/ that often though, some crazy troll anon(s?) there had an extreme hateboner for the game and we ended up kicked to a containment thread kek.
No. 1980100
File: 1714076632044.png (190.71 KB, 913x778, V81A8E2-9BB4-486B.png)
what is the appeal of this?
No. 1980178
File: 1714079102499.jpeg (165.51 KB, 640x640, 1713148554578.jpeg)
(bait)
No. 1980227
File: 1714082149742.jpg (226.34 KB, 640x640, yaoified.jpg)
>>1980178fixed. fujos hate 3d moids
No. 1980294
File: 1714087916671.jpg (653.59 KB, 1215x1212, fix.jpg)
>>1980227Had to fix yours
No. 1980337
>>1980295you really misinterpreted what i said. i don't think periods are inherently degrading. i don't even think they're painful for some people. but a lot of women experience pain on periods, and pain is something no one wants to have
>If you create a scenario where a man can get pregnant, then they aren't men.yes, well, the whole point of my post was women wishing that men could feel the pain women feel
for being female hence being penetrated in their yaoihole, period cramps, mpreg, omegaverse. i don't agree with using that pain as 'revenge' though, i'm not a fujo and have never been into female-ifying male characters, but it's a common enough phenomenon, as
>>1980100 shows
No. 1981285
File: 1714162359647.jpeg (1.15 MB, 1170x1794, IMG_6792.jpeg)
>>1969912I know I’m being unnecessarily petty by replying to this a week later but… picrel
No. 1982404
File: 1714250246353.jpg (174.58 KB, 823x658, yea.jpg)
>>1980100Pathetic yaoi man in pain is cute.
No. 1982541
>>1980286>>1980100Come on this is the same train of thought that leads straight fujos to detest het ships/stories even if they have the same dynamics as their fav bl
Any excuse to justify infantalising women and disassociating from your own experiences as a woman
>>1982404 No. 1982574
>>1982547kek seriously, anons complain about fujos liking le
abusive rape porn!!!! and then go post about how they want to be choked and forcibly bred by their husbando in the hornyposting thread. the only problem they have is that they can't self insert into m/m and that's why they call fujos misogynists, simply for not creating content for them personally.
No. 1983004
>>1982695are you seriously taking this
>>1982404 seriously? it's clearly meant to be joke
No. 1987139
File: 1714579882820.png (171.04 KB, 658x836, FopokaIAASj.png)
Why not just create a genderbent at this point instead of doing whatever this is?
No. 1987144
File: 1714580141827.jpg (608.19 KB, 2048x1649, yass queen slayyyy.jpg)
>>1987139i dont know why you keep posting stuff from yumes instead of fujos. But thank you for introducing me to this autist, she's hilarious. I love her yassified redraws of wolfwood
No. 1987334
File: 1714590950661.jpg (Spoiler Image,28.45 KB, 547x800, tom-of-finland-leather-geared-…)
Men with pecs doesn't really make them women, some gay men have always been into the "big pecs and ass" muscle type way back in the 50s before twitter porn, pic related.
No. 1988692
>>1988682You know what
It doesn't even matter what kind of het ship it is. Most of the users here view het ships and stories as nothing short of humiliation. It's that fucking "all straight sex is rape" radfem analysis isn't it.
I hope you all mentally heal this is so exhausting and boring. Fans and fujoshis on other platforms are less mentally deranged than users here because they're not very self aware.
No. 1988828
>>1988817Lol coping fujo, as if the ukes in your stories are not tifs who look and get treated like women.
Het is bad, but the seme and secondary characters perpetuating misogyny on the tif-looking uke is sooo much better.
You are so woke and feminist anon. Totally not fake or hypocritical and in no way justifying your gay porn addiction.
No. 1988834
File: 1714708170550.jpg (205.43 KB, 850x660, 1712900881680229.jpg)
>>1988828>ukes are TIFsRemember anons, if you are attracted to this, you are a lesbian
No. 1988840
>>1988834>using picrel as a exampleI laughed ngl
>>1988830Oh
nonnie bless your retarded soul. You obviously are reading that since you read BL
No. 1988853
File: 1714709039740.jpeg (67.39 KB, 736x736, HajimexLeo.jpeg)
I want a poll to know how many LC fujos think that reading yaoi is a sign of homosexuality and how many think it's not
No. 1988858
>>1988828Weird, I've never met a TIF with a dick and balls. But also,
>justifying your gay porn addiction.So is BL het or gay? You can't have it both ways.
No. 1988862
>>1988858Ah yes their uber small micropenises how could i not forget.
>>1988853Most fujos here pretend to be totallly against troons or gay-men so they can fit in with the others in this site. But outside of this site the majority of fujos are supportive of gay-men, troons and many fujos do fall into some troon category whether its identifying and a any-pronoun or they/them enby to being a actual tif.
I think that should answer your question.
No. 1988871
>>1988867Yes and they don't. The people pushing for that shit were literally fujos who claimed to be lesbians. Weird of you to blame fujo autism on us.
The consensus has always been that it's repackaged het without the actual woman but instead a self insert pseudo-woman.
No. 1988891
>>1988888Wasn't that because antifujos kept asking for enemas and realistic sex and saying that it not being shown means tifs or some shit?
Then censored examples were shown that it is a thing and the whole argument to begin with was retarded.
No. 1988901
>>1988897i don't (really) agree that it's "vaginal" but usually it's just to clown on fujos who romanticize anal sex, not like wanting the grosser alternative, more like wanting all of it to disappear lmao
>>1988900surely you're not talking about people thinking anal sex is gross because it is i'm sorry
No. 1989006
>>1989005>sodomitestf is this language, are you a 1650s puritan or what
>So you fantasize about sodomites but pretend they're not like irl sodomites. it's a fantasy. it's fiction. if people can make shit up about talking animals or space battles they can make shit up about unrealistic gay sex. m/f content is full of idealised moids and unrealistic sex as well.
>if someone made a pedophilia story minus sex that would still be exploitative and gross.retarded comparison. paedophilia always equals rape. gay sex doesn't. you just have a problem with homosexuality
No. 1989011
>>1989005You seem to willingly ignore the fact that I mentioned het sex acts too. If I read a story (and here I'm using a made up example just so you know) of a female character having a ONS with a male character without any kind of protection or sparing even a second thinking about the possibility of catching an STI from them, then according to your logic I encourage woman to have unsafe sex in RL? That's so dumb.
And just the fact that you not only use the term sodomite but also in the same breath as pedophilia tells me everything I need to know about you. No one here is defending pedophilia, but fake gay anal sex only becomes a problem when you start thinking it works like that in RL. Which, even in the times of tifs taking over fandom, hardly anyone actually believes.
No. 1990189
File: 1714808860273.jpg (39.93 KB, 680x680, 1626183556120.jpg)
I know it doesn't happen as much with lcf fujos and older fujos for that matter but the "female in the way of the gay ship" thing is tiring. I see it a lot with gendies and gay "men" TIFs more though, and they have a variety of excuses too that don't always hold up too. I don't know the point of this post, but I hope to write good female characters someday. If anything to make the problem of badly written female characters a little better, maybe then m/f will start to become more interesting to others and me as well. Yeah, there will always be fags and insecure tards who will hate a female character for that reason but if the majority of the cases can be avoided, I think it's worth it.
No. 1990907
>>1990189>female in the way of the gay shipI’ve never understood why people focus so much on fujos hating love rivals when
nobody like love rivals, fictional or not. It’s common among all sorts of fans and media and in real life too. It’s not a fujo-specific thing at all. Nowadays though I don’t see much character-bashing outside of “moral” reasons. I don’t think it’s a writing issue like you said.
No. 1991579
She's right, y'know
No. 1991586
>>1990859fat asses are nice kek. There's a bit of limit to it, especially when the proportions look grotesque but
>>1987139 pic rel looks tame, way tamer than what bara artist cook up. I don't know why some nonas think it's look retarded?
No. 1991592
>>1991586That goes way beyond my limit sorry.
>I don't know why some nonas think it's look retarded?because it looks like a woman's body. It's just another version of "draw a girl, call it a boy." Not just because of the ass, the entire figure is an exaggerated hourglass.
No. 1991600
>>1990189TBH, nowdays female characters in the way of a yaoi OTPs aren't hated as much anymore. I think the early 2010s made the fandom at large realize that the hatred some of the targeted female characters got was excessive and borderline misogynist (unsurprisingly, I've seen many of those haters have now turned to genderism and they're TIFs, enbies, etc).
However, they found new lame excuses to pull said female characters away from their targeted male characters. Bullshit like saying she's the "mom friend" of the group, turning any female character in the way of their OTP into lesbians in the most insencere and uncaring way (a beloved thing by the Ace Attorney fandom), et cetera. Honestly this feels more annoying to me than the sincere hatred of old internet fandoms, because there's nothing I like less than people pretending they're into female characters they otherwise wouldn't even write about.
The best way to ignore a character in your fanworks is to just ignore them, I have no idea why these performative online theathrics are so necessary to some fujos.
No. 1991605
File: 1714923671046.jpg (131 KB, 1280x544, 1000022257.jpg)
>>1991598That's silly, in my country we care about the moids' butts because flat butts are lame. And I personally believe butts are important for everyone because the butt protects these bones during a fall.
No. 1991636
File: 1714926283356.png (1.45 MB, 990x781, thesoldierofmarathon.png)
Ancient farmers being dismayed at flat male butt, 490 BC
No. 1991675
File: 1714929360931.png (473.8 KB, 600x450, Kichiku.png)
>>1989033Yeah it’s called selfcest
No. 1991685
File: 1714930497437.gif (81.57 KB, 320x320, image0.gif)
>>1990189I see this more with yuri fans than any other group nowadays, dudes can’t even take a MALE DOG being near their yuri girls.
No. 1991938
>>1988817>but because the dynamics aren't equal.Massive cope that doesn't make sense when popular BL/fujo content is all about unequal dynamics. Especially when it gets into the omegaverse and we're all pretending that they're 2 male characters.
Seeing how BL evolved in western media is such a blackpill honestly.
No. 1991941
>>1991579I wish she'd drop the "queer audience" part, they keep saying that so people can stop attacking het women for fetishizing gay and to focus on the actual discourse.
I just realised how dumb this whole thing is and yet it's the reason why no female fan wants to create any story that revolves around women. It's fascinating how despite 5 years of "I drink male tears' feminism on tumblr it amounted to nothing. They now just dress up their animosity or indifferent for female characters by going focusing on "omg gay babies" it's like a weird shift from the straight girl and gay bff (which is now evil).
No. 1991942
>>1991692>self-insertingsays who? I don't even get this argument. No one is self-inserting with Katara especially since she used to bear the brunt for so much hate in the fandom.
and the uke shit isn't self-inserting?
No. 1991950
>>1988810It's fascinating how you can have a FL and ML (sorry for using kpop terms) so they're literally WRITTEN to be for each other, if it's a well written story it will not feel forced and yet
> het is forcedI feel like they this is a slurry of tumblr LGBT posts that led to this dumb idea.
No. 1991996
File: 1714951486788.jpg (46.37 KB, 736x981, 3b2f692c6b312f2efd902bc28b9325…)
>>1991973>absolutely worst female character in all of ATLA>nothing but self insert fuel>zuko is just a bad boyTell me you don't watch or understand Avatar without explicitly saying you don't watch or understand Avatar. I get that you want to win an argument, but God you are grasping at straws right now. I'm not even the anon you were responding too.
No. 1992041
>>1992010I agree, I think it's stupid that the writers chose to make bloodbending as this inherently evil sub-element, but I don't see how that would make Katara the worst female character in the entire show. It was all on Bryke when they chose to
write Hama as this evil bitch who needed to stay locked up, Katara was
not the one to blame for that kek
No. 1992156
>>1991938omegaverse is really not as common as anons here keep making it out to be
>in western mediaah that explains it
No. 1992206
>>1992170You claiming "all het ships are like that" doesn't make it a fact. It's your own fault for seeking out weird
shit specifically, there are all types of het content.
Also gross rape is gross rape, being m/m doesn't make it less disgusting, slightly easier for the female readers to distance themselves from the imagery perhaps. But women can be anally raped too so it's still plenty horrifying for empathic readers. Rape isn't an universal fetish either fujos or yumes have.
No. 1992261
File: 1714975833741.jpg (131.38 KB, 615x1000, omega vampire.jpg)
>>1992156It was popular enough to get a game at least
>>1992170>How is that comparable to submissive waif and pig who wants to put her in a cageJokes on you I want Toma niisan to put Shin in the cage.
No. 1992301
>>1990907They focus on fujos because it's the only fanbase where women are into men without the male gaze, narcissistic pickmes can't get into it.
it's plain misogynistic to only focus on female fandoms but
the fragile fictional characters are more important.
No. 1992323
File: 1714985670310.jpg (113.75 KB, 678x679, 4bbb.jpg)
Regarding the whole "anal sex in yaoi is unrealistic" argument, do people bothered by this not have sexual fantasies of their own? Some sentiments in this thread seem to come from people who flat-out don't understand the appeal of erotic fiction, and explaining to them why it depicts sex in an idealistic fashion is like explaining colors to a blind person.
No. 1992357
>>1979623>Aprox 80% slasher/fujo girls I know are some kind of “lesbian”. I use ironic quotation exactly because it’s dubious and just stupid. Okay, woman-written romance, okay no misogyny. But like. Being a lesbian and being obsessed over some korean moid or a harem of several male characters. What. Roleplaying male gay sex with gf, sex in cosplay of said male characters. Multiple merchandise, memorabilia of some moid/s. Point of having a naked sexualized fanart of a geriatric man on your phone wallpaper while being a lesbian? Userpics of k webnovel muscleman?I made the same observation.
I just don't get it, shouldn't they head over heels over female characters?
No. 1992358
>>1992294>it has literally never been two men abusing each other or loving each other, deep down I feel you know this as well.Do you mean cunt "boy" which is just deranged spicy straight shit?
>>1992206>It's your own fault for seeking out weird shit that is the mainstream de facto.Gaslighting. 90% of media centers on women being manipulated, if adult centered raped and abused or gaslit in someway. Genuinely fuck off with this dogshit comparison and moral good woman olympics. Being a moral fag over males will earn you nothing in return.
>slightly easier for the female readers to distance themselves from the imagery perhapsNot "perhaps". Entirely. Women are not men.
No. 1992366
>>1992358that's not what I mean, all bl features a
toxic heterosexual relationship.
No. 1992374
>>1992358>Women are not men.Of course women are not men, did I claim otherwise? I don't need a dick to be grossed out by imagery featuring rape. (Before you go off on a tangent confusing me with some other anon who has never touched BL in her life, I do read/watch BL content, with or without rape (Ijust judge the overall quality of the work, the presence of rapists makes sense in some edgy story settings), I just don't coom to the rape part or pretend it's somehow different from other types of female oriented media when it comes to rape
>Being a moral fag over males will earn you nothing in return.TIL being being against rape as principle is being a moral fag for men, I see. Oh well, keep seething that others don't share your rape fetish
No. 1993188
File: 1715040882343.jpg (42.56 KB, 736x414, 1000016177.jpg)
>>1992091>>1992091>blandNo. Let’s take this from the top.
Katara is introduced as a lively character with her own dreams of understanding her own waterbending, despite her life of regularly providing for her village ever since the Fire Nation’s war on the rest of the war took her parents away and literally forced her to grow up fast. The very beginning of the series opens up with Katara calling out Sokka’s shitty sexist attitude and ungratefulness of everything Katara does to provide for him, the village’s children, and to work with the women that were left behind at home. Katara even mentions that between them, it was her that took on most of the work to keep the village alive. Katara is generally selfless, but does NOT like to take shit from other people. Katara will endure responsibilities and the toll that life puts on her, but when external forces pile on and reach above her limit, Katara gets strikingly upset and even Sokka can think it’s scary. Katara is so passionate about waterbending, especially as the last known member of the Southern Water Tribe, that she basically tells Sokka to shut the fuck up when he tries telling her to give up teaching herself. She is passionate about her bending abilities, and just wants Sokka to be more respectful and encouraging of her potential and effort to connect with her own powers. Katara’s waterbending is shown to be connected to her emotions, and the raw power of her waterbending (although untrained) is so strong that she accidentally broke down a glacier, revealing Aang trapped in an iceberg. Katara doesn’t know Aang at this point, but is so kind-hearted with a core instinct to aid others that are in need, that she breaks open the iceberg and frees the last airbender from his frozen avatar state; reviving the avatar back into the world and
kickstarting the show as we know it. Before I go on, I want to remind you and anyone else reading this that Katara is only
fourteen now.
I would also like to mention that Katara is so passionate about waterbending, that upon setting foot in the North Pole, she challenged Pakku about his sexist beliefs and FOUGHT him to put HIM in his place. Of course, she loses, but her relation to Pakku’s love (Gran Gran) allowed her foot in the door to study under his guidance. Katara, Sokka, and Aang have been at the North Pole for months. All day, for months, Katara has been learning and training with the greatest waterbender in the world, again and again, to become a decent waterbender. Despite the Northern Tribe’s sexist attitudes, Katara has worked her ass off trying to understand waterbending, putting in her heart and soul to get good at it. This shows how determined Katara is when she cares about something. Katara didn’t understand much about how to properly waterbend, yet now she actually knows what she’s doing. Her power grind is no joke, as Master Pakku even says that Katara is the greatest student he’s ever had (IIRC). IIRC again, Iroh at some point in an avatar related-media, gives his opinion on Katara and even says it himself that she’s the greatest waterbender in the world at her peak. People calling Katara a mary-sue don’t know what a mary-sue is. If Katara was a mary-sue, she would have beaten Master Pakku with out-of-nowhere “girl power” or some shit. If Katara was a mary-sue, Ty Lee wouldn’t have gotten the drop on her as much as she did. People say that Katara is a mary-sue because she beat Azula at the last Agni Kai, but Azula was having a literal mental breakdown. Had it not been for Azula playing dirty, Zuko would have won that fight by himself, and even then he says he was able to fight Azula better because she was
losing it.
No. 1993193
File: 1715040975364.jpg (21.92 KB, 400x400, 4ac7e528c4e5d11396c7ffc5d27c89…)
>>1993188Part 2.
As if it hasn’t just been talked about already, now we’ll go into depth at what everyone loves to bitch about when it comes to Katara’s character. What makes her bullied for being the “mom”; Empathy.
After Katara’s own mother was killed at the hands of Fire Nation forces, Katara has been forced to grow up, think, and act like an adult starting at a very young age. This meant watching over and providing for what was left of her village, populated by just women, children, and elders. This was pushed even further by the fact that her father (and the rest of the men) left the Tribe to go and fight as an alliance of rebels against the Fire Nation. As her early and serious new purpose was forced upon her by the war, this meant becoming extremely close and familiar with the other Water Tribe residents, making her neighbors more like family at that point. When cooperating with family, it is natural and vital that one learns to think and care about others. Especially when your family is war-torn, and easy to dismantle should not enough needs be met. Combined with doing this for almost several years, Katara's sense of open-heart becomes cemented into her psychology. Watching over others, patting their backs, being a shoulder to cry on, stitching up their clothing, treating their injuries, and making sure everyone is fed and alive is an instinct for Katara at this point in her life. As Katara is hyper-aware of other people’s feelings, she’s hesitant to give Aang the tragic news of his race being genocided off the map. Then when Aang discovers that the rest of his kind really is gone due to the Fire Nation, Katara is the main character that reaches out to Aang to soothe and reassure him, despite the horrible news. Katara calms Aang down from his angry avatar state, and succeeds at guiding him back to focus. Empathetic, Katara explicitly tells Aang that she understands his pain, as she and Sokka have also lost many tribe members and even some family members to the Fire Nation as well. During their journey with Katara teaching Aang some waterbending she taught herself, she quickly learns from Aang that he responds better with positive reinforcement. When Aang feels like he’s a failure to his job as the avatar, it’s normally Katara that’s the one picking him back up and telling him that he IS worth a shit. Through emotional AND physical aid, Katara was the one keeping Aang going. When someone is feeling down and borderline suicidal, Katara is the one chasing their self-doubt away. She did this with Haru, she did this with imprisoned earthbenders, and she even did this with Zuko when he doubted Iroh forgiving him. Katara’s heart is enormous, and this is shown through her actions of
constantly trying to save and keep other people alive. The Desert Episode. After Appa got kidnapped, Aang became the opposite of what he normally was: cold, depressed, and irrationally pissed off. For the majority of time after Appa got kidnapped, Aang fucks off from the group to go find him, which left Katara alone with the rest of the team. Sokka was desperate for water, and drank cactus juice with Momo, leaving them both high and out of their minds as hell. Not very helpful in a desert. Then there was Toph, whose seismic sense was rendered useless because of the grainy texture of the sand. This made Toph completely blinded this time. Also not so good. So how does Katara react to this scenario? She creates a hand-holding line so that everyone is holding each other to prevent anyone getting strayed and lost. When someone is thirsty, she uses the water from her pouch to hydrate them and prevent dangerous levels of thirst, even with the pressure of being a waterbender in the middle of the desert and with limited water source. We never see Katara drink the water herself. She is using her only means of water on her brother and “new family”. She keeps reminding everyone that they must focus on getting to Ba Sing Se. Katara understands that this is a dire situation, and even though she is more than likely uncomfortable as all hell in this episode, she puts her fear and frustrations aside to focus on keeping everyone together and breathing.
No. 1993197
File: 1715041058210.jpg (44.11 KB, 523x526, c550cd35142762e635780183b01e23…)
>>1993193Next, let’s address the misconception that Katara is just a nagging bully to Toph, because yes—there are ATLA fans that actually think that.
Starting out with Toph’s origins: Toph comes from a wealthy family that gives her everything she wants, shelters, and pampers her incessantly because she’s blind and a child. But because they’re overprotective of Toph, she realizes how much her parents have been holding her back from exploring the world, exploring earthbending, and exploring who she really is as a person. This makes her more attracted to individuality, the mindset of putting yourself and your own independence first. As Toph embraces individuality, she becomes very comfortable with being herself, a brutally honest tomboy who isn’t afraid to get loud or to start a fight.
On the contrary, there’s Katara. Katara used to live a more normal life with her mother and father in the picture. But just like the Fire Nation taking away all the other waterbenders from her tribe, they took the lives of her tribe’s residents, including her mother—which in turn, forced her father to leave the picture of the tribe as well. Katara’s family was damaged and fractured out of her control, forcing her to “man-up” and work for the closest she can get to a happy family since. Katara being forced to work for what others need and at such a young age is a foil to Toph’s origin, because Katara couldn’t afford to grow tired of her family and get selfish. Whereas Toph was molded to idealize strict individuality to care for herself, Katara was raised to embrace a compassionate sense of collectivism to care for others. This is why they butt heads so much. Katara got upset with Toph not helping out with the team, once Toph joined them. Toph responds that she shouldn’t have to directly help the team if she’s pulling her own weight (which in her mind means that she owes them nothing). Katara tries to take a casual approach with getting Toph to participate by helping the team set up camp, since Sokka and Aang were acting dumb as hell. Katara even apologizes for any bad impressions. Yet, despite Katara’s politeness, Toph keeps interrupting Katara, and disrespectfully spits her apology back at her. Of course, Katara is back to being irritated. Shit happens, and the team is extra tired from barely getting any sleep. Shit goes down, and Toph leaves after Katara and Aang had enough of Toph’s shit. Yeah, they make up at the end of the episode, but look at the subtext of Katara’s conflict with Toph. It’s obvious that Toph had a problem with Katara’s effort to look out for and get everyone active on the team because it reminded Toph of her own parents constantly breathing down her neck and getting all up in her ear with commands. However, Iroh was able to teach Toph that allowing others to help you is not inherently a sign of weakness. Though, that’s not the end of the conflict between Katara and Toph. In the third season, Katara and Toph get into it when Toph says that Katara doesn’t know how to let loose and have fun, in response to Katara using her past experience of stealing from pirates and suggesting that the team cool down with scamming to avoid attracting suspicion and bad attention. Toph calls Katara “sourpuss”, but Katara sees right through Toph and addresses Toph with tact and accurate analysis: that Toph is guilty about running away from her parents in pursuit of independence, so to shoo away the guilt, Toph goes around and dives head first into doing whatever she wants and trying to convince herself that she hates them. Katara is normally soft-spoken and empathetic with others when addressing them or their behavior, but because just being soft-spoken doesn’t work on Toph, Katara noticed that and gave Toph her own energy back; by being brutally honest. This pissed off Toph a little. Katara senses that something is fishy about Toph and Sokka’s behavior, and digs through some of Toph’s things. Katara learns that her intuition was right through the wanted poster of Toph, but this instinct to always watch over other people and make sure they’re okay has crossed some of Toph’s boundaries. This reminds Toph of her own parents, to which Toph calls Katara out on it. This officially establishes Katara’s core flaw: when she lets her attention and drive to keep everyone safe cross boundaries and become overwhelming.
Now, it is up to Sokka to fix things between Katara and Toph. However, when Sokka confronts Toph about her falling out with Katara, Sokka reveals some details about Katara that establishes how objectively important she is to Sokka’s literal will to keep trying at life. That although Katara can be overwhelming at times where stress is high, Katara is still a pivotal aspect of his life since his mother died. Since the death of their mother, it was actually Katara that stepped up to be his shoulder to cry on, and his personal cheerleader to keep getting up and living life despite the massive loss. Since their mother was gone, it was Katara that was taking care of him IN PLACE of their mother. Katara was so important to Sokka’s survival growing up, that when he tries to remember the face of his mother, he just sees Katara’s. Toph, listening and realizing just how important Katara really is to the team, lets it all out that Katara isn’t necessarily a bad or a shitty person. That despite Katara having her obnoxious moments, her empathetic nature is soothing for Toph. That the love Katara has for the team and even Toph herself is on a level Toph never really felt before. The difference between Katara’s compassion and Toph’s parents’ compassion is that Katara is objectively less hands-off when she’s confronting her teammates about their behavior. Although Katara pulled out the wanted poster and kept telling Toph that (about the scams) enough is enough, Katara doesn’t try to actually FORCE Toph to do what she suggests. Katara does this because she personally knows how bad stealing/scamming can get, and wants Toph to grow as a person by not being reckless all of the time. Toph’s parents hired people to kidnap Toph back to her home, and were overprotective specifically because they wanted Toph to stay the helpless little blind girl they wanted her to be. This is where Toph realizes that she fucked up by internally overreacting and jumping to the fear that Katara was just like her parents.
Then Katara and Toph get locked up when their scam backfires thanks to Combustion Man doing what Katara initially predicted, by catching onto them. They sit in the jail cell, as they converse about their differences. Katara admits that she just wanted to prove that she can be fun too, and not just “motherly” all the time. This shows that even when Katara wasn’t getting along with Toph, Katara was still listening to Toph when she handed out criticism of how she was being. Katara wants to be liked and to fit in with her teammates, something more than just her instincts telling her to keep track of her team, wash clothes, and stew dinner. Toph reassures Katara that she IS fun, at least to argue with. Katara apologizes for being brutally honest with Toph about her parents, to which Toph confesses that Katara had a point, actually. Toph DOES love her parents, and was worried that she hurt them by running away for independence. Toph begins to cry, trusting Katara enough to open her weakness, to which Katara embraces Toph to comfort her. Later, after escaping Combustion Man, Toph trusts Katara enough to ask her for help, to which Katara naturally agrees. Katara helps Toph write a heartfelt letter to her parents, and sends Sokka’s messenger bird to deliver it. With the help of Katara, Toph learned to be more open about her own true feelings and thoughts, to be less reckless, and to think more about others while also acknowledging the importance of self. Katara helped bring Toph to a balance. Katara learns from Toph that being a child isn’t inherently the behavior or mindset of being child
ish. Being a child is a state of being and regardless of how mature Katara is, she is still a child just like Toph at the end of the day. Not an adult. Toph taught Katara that although it’s not good to be reckless all the time, fun is still important in order to rest her nerves and enjoy the day when she can. So Toph also brought balance to Katara.
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>>1993197Then let’s go into Katara’s morality
The thing about Katara isn’t just that she’s empathetic and usually very considerate of how other people are feeling and doing, Katara also has a mature, level-headed outlook on how she views different aspects of the war. Specifically, I’m talking about what separates her from characters like Jet. Katara has trauma, however she is mature enough to handle her trauma better than Jet. Katara doesn’t let her trauma take over who she is, including her sense of what’s right and wrong. Katara doesn’t let the Fire Nation’s destruction of her Tribe and family stop her from acknowledging when somebody is in dire need of help, like when Katara quickly offered to heal Iroh after Azula blasted him and despite the fact that she
knows Iroh is from the Fire Nation. The Fire Nation has a monstrous force that’s oppressing the world, but Katara will call a spade a spade when she encounters a harmless or even helpful Fire Nation civilian. After meeting Jet, Katara is forced to learn the basic, yet useful lesson that you can’t trust or assume that somebody is a good person just because they have a sorry backstory and a nice face. Katara approached Jet with open arms and compassion for him, yet he lied to and betrayed her so he could kill innocent civilians just because Fire Nation soldiers were in their village. Katara is rightfully offended and deeply “cut” from Jet, taking advantage of her giving him the benefit of the doubt, as it’s pretty insulting to her nature of having a big heart. Jet’s episode is the introduction of one of the things that hurts Katara the most; betrayal. When Katara meets Zuko in the catacombs of Ba Sing Se, the scene exposes that even though she and Zuko were on opposite sides of the war, Katara can pick up on when another person is sincerely open about their internal conflicts (Zuko losing his mother), and still empathize with them. From learning that she has some aspects of her life in common with Zuko, Katara begins to see Zuko in a different light. Katara begins to learn that Zuko isn’t just an angry soldier boy who wants to serve Aang’s head on a platter just because his father said so. Katara realizes that Zuko is still human like everyone else, with hurt like her and anyone else. Immediately, she realizes that Zuko’s nation is not healthy for him, and offers him the advice of what her element of water symbolizes: change. Katara offers Zuko to change his lifestyle of wanting to appease his
abusive father and dysfunctional society for the greater good for himself, and the rest of the world. Katara is one of the only three people that directly reached out to Zuko to basically tell him that he’s better than being a soldier for the Fire Nation’s war-mongering and supremacist ideologies. The other two being Iroh and Aang. Like with Toph, it’s not just that Katara empathizes with other people; Katara wants troubled people to grow and become better. When Zuko explains that he viewed his scar as the mark of what the Fire Nation pushed him to do, Katara offers to heal his scar, literally wanting to get rid of Zuko’s loyalty to such an unhealthy set of beliefs and lifestyle. But before Katara could use her spirit water, she and Zuko are interrupted and separated. Then the betrayal happens. After finding common ground, learning that Zuko is more like herself than she initially believed, developing a slightly bleeding heart for him, understanding and telling Zuko that he doesn’t have to remain loyal to such a nation that mistreats him and his mother, and even almost healing his scar with the spirit water, Zuko still chooses to side with Azula, and what happens when he sides back with the Fire Nation? Katara and Aang get jumped by Zuko, Azula, and the Dai Li, Aang temporarily DIES because of Azula’s lightning, and Iroh himself gets locked up. Imagine how motherfucking shaken Katara must have felt at her core, when Zuko basically said “fuck you” at this event. After this point, shit starts to get real for Katara’s emotional journey, because this is the second time she got betrayed and this betrayal resulted in serious consequences. The Katara we’ve seen in season one is changing into a more serious person, as it becomes clearer than ever that this world can and will stomp all over her bleeding heart. Still empathetic and morally adjusted, but exterior changing into a more “solid” one. However, it’s not just because of Zuko. There’s Hama’s impact.
Katara meeting and learning from the first last bender of the Southern Water Tribe; Hama.
The team meets a kind, elderly lady that seems to be native to the Fire Nation. She takes interest in Katara, and starts to grow on her. However, Sokka picks up that Hama must be hiding something from the team, and begins to snoop through her home. Katara learned from Toph that it isn’t right to just go through other people’s shit but knowing that Sokka is usually a good judge of character (like from the Jet episode), she hesitantly follows along with Sokka finding and trying to open a hidden treasure box. Hama already knew the kids were going through her shit, and opens the box just to reveal a Southern Water Tribe comb, simultaneously revealing her true origin. As Hama is a waterbender herself, Katara is thrilled and (pun intended) over the moon that she ISN’T the last waterbender of the Southern Tribe. That she’s finally found someone just like herself in that sense, happy to know they haven’t entirely just disappeared from the world. Hama tells Katara the story of why the southern waterbenders have disappeared (they were kidnapped), in which Katara empathizes and shares to Hama that she and Sokka lost their mother because of the Fire Nation looking for more waterbenders. Katara and Hama realize just how alike they are, not just through bending and ethnicity, making Hama offer to teach Katara waterbending techniques that Master Pakku didn’t. Hama teaches Katara just how “everywhere” water actually is, and how embedded with life their element really runs. From the moisture in the air, the liquid from plants, to the sweat on your skin, Hama helps Katara realize just how resourceful waterbenders can be, and is pleased when Katara shares that she had to use her sweat to escape a jail. Like with Katara teaching Aang the waterbending she taught herself despite the Fire Nation’s oppression, Hama is literally doing the same for Katara. However, Katara views waterbending more as an art than Hama does, in which Hama views their powers as a high-tier resource for survival. Hama is much more of a pragmatist, demonstrated when she kills a bunch of fire lilies in order to draw water from them. While waterbending and its sub-element of bloodbending is absolutely a high-tier means for survival, Hama took it too far when Katara learns that Hama was also using bloodbending to terrorize Fire Nation civilians who
weren’t soldiers and
didn’t oppress her. Viewing bloodbending as a perverse form of her element, Katara is reluctant to learn the sub-element. But in a tragically fucked up sense, Hama needed more waterbenders to understand just how powerful they really are, the sub-element of bloodbending to ensure that less of them rot away in those prisons. And so, Hama forces Katara to pick up bloodbending, by creating a deadly event in which Hama bloodbends Katara, Sokka, and Aang into almost killing each other. Hama forces Katara to become resourceful, by drawing water from plant life. Hama forces Katara to embrace her final lesson, and just like how Hama learned: Bloodbending for the means of survival. Even after Hama lets herself be arrested and sent away, Hama has successfully doused Katara in her maximum potential as a bender. Even though Katara is left sobbing at the end of the episode for such a traumatic event, Katara is now a fully realized waterbender, even for the water that runs with blood. Then there’s the Day of The Black Sun, where Katara takes down a Fire Nation tower base with her brother and father, but has to stay behind from invading the palace as Hakoda becomes badly injured and she’s the only healer on the entire fleet. Sokka, Toph, and Aang are the ones that have to break into the palace and find Ozai themselves, yet they just run into Azula—who successfully buys time and manipulates them into failing their mission once the sun’s power comes back on. The team fails the mission on the Black Sun, so you can imagine how emotional everybody is feeling because of their loss.
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>>1993199Then, here comes a random Zuko showing up and wanting to join their team after all that fuckshit since Ba Sing Se. Remember how personally Katara takes betrayal? Yeah. We’re about to see that again. In the catacombs, Katara was willing to hear Zuko out, bury the hatchet, heal his scar, and even welcome him on the team. But when Zuko basically said “fuck you” and joined Azula, Katara became naturally on-edge about Zuko’s character. That sweet, huggable, and polite Katara is gone when Zuko tries to join the team. Hama made Katara question her nature as a waterbender, a piece of who Katara is. Now Zuko is showing up out of nowhere, and is making Katara feel even more conflicted. Think about it. Had it not been for Aang and Iroh, Katara was going to use the spirit water on Zuko’s scar. Considering that Zuko immediately reverted back to the Fire Nation right after running into Katara, that scenario would result in Aang getting killed during his avatar state, and Katara not having the spirit water to revive him. Katara’s bleeding heart nature and giving Zuko the benefit of the doubt almost resulted in Aang staying dead, the air nomad race reaching official extinction, and the entire avatar cycle stopping for good because of Aang dying IN the state. Zuko is making Katara’s self-questioning reach for the sky. Then you take in Zuko trying to bribe Katara with her own dead mother’s necklace, having the team kidnapped on multiple occasions, following them across the world to capture Aang and basically fuck over the chances of the Fire Nation being stopped, burning Kyoshi village almost entirely to the ground, and hiring Combustion man to kill Aang (which almost got the others killed too by the way). With all the shitfest of how Zuko made their journeys harder and even more dangerous, imagine how frustrated Katara probably feels when Zuko gets to join the team mainly because Toph said “fuck it”, and because Zuko helped stop them from getting killed by Combustion Man. (It wasn’t even Zuko that stopped Combustion Man by the way, it was Sokka flinging his boomerang that actually killed him and officially ended the hunt). Everyone is having an easier time letting Zuko chill with them, but Katara is not having it because the last time SHE chilled with Zuko, it was catastrophic. Katara does not trust Zuko, and she has more than enough reasons at this point. Katara is so serious and on-guard with Zuko because of the threat she knows he can be to what’s basically her family at this point, that she turns into O-ren Ishii when she threatens to KILL HIM if he
ever tries to fuck them over again. After this, Katara is so venomous to Zuko at any chance she gets, that she fucking laughs and tells Zuko that he isn’t as good of a bender as he thought he was, when he lost his powers. That was so cold, Toph was even amused. But we need to address Katara threatening to end Zuko’s life. That moment was so different from how Katara has been up until that exact moment, that we need to ask ourselves if that’s who, or a part of who Katara is. Then comes ‘The Southern Raiders’.
To Kill or Not to Kill; Yon Rha.
Azula’s attack on the Air Temple, the team turned into a crib, forces Katara to be separated from her father (who had recently been broken out of the Boiling Rock). Right after reuniting with the only parent she has left, Katara is forced to lose him again (even if it’s only temporary) because of a Fire Nation attack. It doesn’t take rocket science to understand how overwhelmed, saddened, and horrified Katara must be feeling. Zuko does his part, and holds off Azula in order to let the team or everyone else get the hell out of there. After escaping, the team lands Appa on a safe spot to set up camp, have some tea and eat some dinner. Zuko jokes about his past of chasing Aang around the world again and everyone laughs, except for Katara who still isn’t convinced to completely trust Zuko. Zuko runs after Katara, trying to confront, open her up, and see what’s the matter with her. The part here is ironic, because it’s basically a reverse of their talk in Ba Sing Se. Now, it’s Zuko’s turn to help Katara’s emotional turmoil and to understand HER. Katara yells at Zuko, lashing out because of dire consequences of his actions in Ba Sing Se and how his actions personally hurt Katara on the inside because of how he (again) basically said “screw you and your side of the war”. Just like before the catacombs, Katara is back to viewing Zuko as the face of the enemy and demands that he make up for his past by liberating Ba Sing Se, or to even bring her mother back; projecting every single Fire Nation action directly onto Zuko, and demanding that he find a way to take absolutely everything back. Jet, Hama, Zuko. That’s three times Katara was horribly manipulated or badly misled by people she thought she could trust. Katara doesn’t have open arms anymore like in season one anymore, Katara learned to officially be on-guard and if Zuko wants in, he’ll have to really prove that Katara should give him a second chance. But Zuko doesn’t throw in the towel and give up on understanding Katara, so he goes to somebody who really knows Katara in order to obtain a greater picture of what Katara has been through, who Katara is, and what Katara needs. Somebody like her own brother, Sokka. Just like that, Zuko offers Katara that he can help her find the man who killed her mother. Now Katara is ready to go. Katara tells Aang and Sokka that she and Zuko are going to find the man that killed her mother, to which Aang and Sokka immediately try to shut that down with Aang explaining that revenge is not what HE believes is right, while Zuko is reiterating that they’re doing this for what Katara says she needs. Up until this point, Katara was usually solving her internal struggles on her own, or (pun-intended) “watering them down” so she can keep herself focused and moving. Here though, Katara is feeling very serious and begins her brutal honesty. Katara is fully aware that Aang is a head-over-heels sucker for air nomad pacifism, despite Katara having to dip her toes into things like bloodbending for the greater good of her own and her friends’ survival. Katara was forced to encounter violence, Katara was forced to grow up faster than Aang, Katara was forced to get “bloody” outside her comfort zone (Hama), Katara learned faster than Aang that the world isn’t so black/white with violence. She knew he wouldn’t understand, and
that’s exactly what she tells him. Sokka is just, and rightfully so, worried about his sister going on such a dangerous mission and becoming a murderer. Sokka is scared that Katara is going to let the death of their mother take over who she is. So he tries to help Katara see that Kya was his mother too, and that not even Sokka himself would want revenge on the man who killed her. Sokka wants Katara to let it go, and go back to being her bubbly self because he believes that’s what she needs. But Katara’s brutal honesty strikes again to tell him the subtext that Katara was simply closer to Kya, and that Sokka didn’t love her quite like she did. Hurtful as fuck, but I don’t disagree with Katara, nor do I think she’s even a “bitch” for saying that. Even when I was a kid, I always got the impression that Katara was closer to their mother, while Sokka was closer to their father. Sokka’s mind doesn’t even remember Kya’s face despite being the older sibling, but Katara loved their mother so much that she remembers the last moments she witnessed of Kya still being alive. Katara loved her mother more than anything in the world, it makes entire sense that Katara would snap into brutal honesty and say that Sokka simply wasn’t as close. On the mission with Zuko, Katara is gradually understanding that Zuko does give a shit about making things up for Katara, and does want to get close to her and be a team. It becomes gradually clear that Zuko is interested in Katara’s story, Katara’s pain, what Katara feels like she needs, and Katara’s mother. So Katara shares more sentimental details about Kya with Zuko, taking him more seriously than ever before as an ally. Katara is so passionate about this mission for closure, that she doesn’t sleep to focus on flying Appa to where they need to be. Katara turns into Beatrix Kiddo onboard a Fire Nation ship to wipe out soldiers with Zuko like they’re Mr. and Mrs. Smith. Katara is so fucking pumped and ready for closure on her mother and what the Fire Nation did to her, that she fucking bloodbends a commander that she thought was Yon Rha. She bloodbends him around like a cat toying with a mouse before killing it. Even Zuko is fucking
scared, before remembering that this is about Katara and resuming his purpose of being on this journey. But despite Yue’s spirit giving Katara the power to bloodbend fuckers left and right, Katara’s mind remains clear enough to see that the man she was tossing around wasn’t Yon Rha, and so she stops. This is Katara, and vengeful as she may feel, she is not a person that kills randos. Even at the peak of bloodlust, Katara has the self-control and morality to not kill just any person left and right. When Katara is feeling murderous, she stays locked onto the specific and truly guilty target. This is what makes her so much different than Jet, despite Aang retardedly thinking otherwise.
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>>1993205So then you have Katara and Zuko ambush Yon Rha, where Katara has yet another O-ren Ishii moment, where she reminds her parent’s killer of his
victim through the familiarity of her face. Katara looks Yon Rha in the eye, as she tells him the entire picture of what that man has actually done. Katara tells him that Yon Rha came looking for the last waterbender of the Southern Tribe, and killed a woman named Kya on the assumption that she was the bender. Katara reveals that he got the wrong person, and that Kya lied to him to protect the real waterbender that was her daughter, standing right before him and with the power to stop rain. Standing right before him, and with the power to convert rainwater into icicle blades that can kill. Yet, Katara also learns something about Yon Rha’s life. That he was a sad, miserable, pathetic and weak little man who posed no threat to anyone or anything anymore. Yon Rha had no happiness left in him or his life. Nothing to be happy for, grateful to, or having anything to love. Not even his own mother. Then, there’s the last realization that even if Katara does take the retired loser’s life, there would be nothing to gain for her. Katara’s mother, Kya, would still be dead and drifting peacefully in the afterlife, or reincarnated somehow. If Katara has to take a life, it has to be absolutely necessary and worth it. Instead of an empty victory like how Yon Rha would have been. Yon Rha was beneath her, and so Katara leaves him on the ground like the little worm he was. However, when at Ember Island, Aang confronts Katara and says that he’s proud of her for not killing Yon Rha. Katara is still unsure of her decision, wondering if she spared him because she was too weak to take his life, or if she spared him because she was strong enough to walk away. Once again, Katara is trying to understand who she even is. Is she ready to trust outsiders again? Is she able to be forgiving? After that journey with Zuko, was Katara even right or wrong to give him hell at first? Is Katara really capable of taking a life? Should Yon Rha have died by order of his crimes? Katara has always been the one pushing her own struggles aside to focus on the team’s journey and what other people need, yet it’s finally Katara that gets to have her moment of genuine self-doubt. She tells Aang that she does not forgive Yon Rha for killing her mother. There is no need to, the man didn’t feel guilty and was only scared that a high-tier waterbender had him down. However, Katara does finally accept and forgive Zuko for the time, energy, patience, and listening he has done for Katara during the trip. Though Katara quickly came to understand that killing Yon Rha wasn’t what she needed, she is appreciative to Zuko for letting her figure that out for herself, and for letting her have closure about Kya’s death in the first place. Katara is able to see just how much Zuko has changed, and is finally able to forgive him, trust him, and give him the benefit of the doubt. Katara had her reasons to not accept Zuko at first, but the challenge between them has created a sense of understanding and closeness in the end. As for whether or not Yon Rha should have died, it doesn’t matter anymore because Katara knows that not much would have changed.
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>>1993207By the way, I feel like Katara has canonically killed people and WOULD kill Ozai if she absolutely had to. Remember the Black Sun? Yeah, Katara sliced open Fire nation airships, which must’ve left dozens of men falling to their deaths. They were firing at Katara and trying to take her down with Appa. She had to kill the soldiers, it was either her and Appa, or them. Ozai is the actual face of everything wrong with the Fire Nation, is an irredeemable sociopath, and wouldn’t think twice before striking down and killing anyone Katara loves. If it was up to Katara, I feel like she would have killed him because Ozai’s drive in the destruction of the world is that fucking infinite. I feel like the reason she DIDN’T kill Azula though is because at that point, Azula was obviously and tragically mentally ill. Katara could see that Azula was different from Ozai, despite how dangerous she was. Azula was broken, just like Zuko when first met him. I believe Katara was quick to piece together that Ozai was more than likely abusing the fuck out of Azula too, just in different ways. Plus, even though Azula is a borderline sociopath, Katara knows just how much Zuko still loves family members like Iroh. So even though Azula tried to kill Zuko multiple times, Katara spared her at the final Agni Kai because she knows how much Azula still means to Zuko.
One thing I like about Katara is her difference between her reaction to Aang’s outburst in The Desert, versus her reaction to Aang’s outburst when the team is on Ember Island. In the desert when Aang was being a generally unhelpful little twat and accused Katara of not caring and not helping enough, Katara lets herself get yelled at and merely responds that she was doing the best she could. At Ember Island when Aang is having a meltdown about what he needs to do about Firelord Ozai’s life, he snaps at everyone that nobody is helping him enough, even though every-single-fucking-body has been trying to help him with EVERYTHING. Katara is fed up with Aang’s childish behavior at this point, and just like in the Southern Raiders episode, she doesn’t shy away from disagreeing with Aang anymore. Katara calls him out for acting like a testerical doofus, and instead of reverting to her “motherly” instinct of lecturing Aang, she quickly learns from Zuko that sometimes it’s best to let people figure themselves out. Zuko sees that Aang’s internal struggles are beyond the help everybody has been giving him, and suggests to Katara that she saves her energy. Katara accepts this, and learns to carry on with their plan for Sozin’s Comet WITHOUT having to look after Aang.
Katara continues to do what she and anyone else always does: keep moving. Katara lets go of her mother’s death because from everything she has experienced and went through, Katara is ready to help end the war if that means preventing any more heinous losses and suffering. If it means less people having to suffer like herself and Sokka. If it means less people having to suffer like Aang. If it means having less people to suffer like those formerly enslaved earthbenders. If it means less people having to suffer like Jet. If it means less people having to suffer like Zuko. Less people suffering like Iroh. Less people suffering like Suki. Less people suffering like the imprisoned waterbenders. Less people suffering like Hama. Less people suffering like Fire nation civilians who don’t like the war themselves. Less people suffering like even Azula. As this is who Katara is, she refuses to turn her back on people who need her, even if that includes the entire fucking world. Katara isn’t a perfect character, and I feel like she was rather neglected by Bryke compared to characters like Zuko and had some wasted potential for her development. The worst part of Katara’s writing is that she’s paired with Aang, and it doesn’t help that their endgame romance makes no fucking sense after they were further apart with understanding than ever. But to say that Katara is BLAND or the worst female character in the entire show is objectively wrong. I am dead serious. If a person says that Katara is the worst female character in the entire show, or that she’s bland, that person has absolutely no fucking clue of what they’re talking about. Yes, that includes you, anon. I don’t know if it stems from not really watching the show, general failure to properly analyze what’s in front of them, another day of some fujofag deliberately painting untrue conceptions about female characters to justify their yaoi, or just the run-of-the-mill internally misogynistic media head who hates any female character that doesn’t conform to whatever arbitrary standard of how girls and women should be written. But regardless of the reason, such a statement that Katara is the worst character or is bland is unwaveringly incorrect. Katara is not the worst, but the type of conclusion that completely ignores everything about Katara absolutely is the worst type of take to make about any character at all. Katara is not bland, but this recurring perception that female characters must act like annoying, tomboy assholes to be interesting is definitely an unintelligent and bland take.
(extreme autism and derailing) No. 1993344
>>1993188>>1993210I thought I was an Azula stan, but I would never write this much about her. In fact, I don't think would never write this much about any character that I like, lol.
I'm not reading any of it, but I respect the effort. Love your passion, katarasperg-chan.
No. 1993543
>>1993210>I don’t know if it stems from not really watching the show, general failure to properly analyze what’s in front of them, another day of some fujofag deliberately painting untrue conceptions about female characters to justify their yaoi, or just the run-of-the-mill internally misogynistic media head who hates any female character that doesn’t conform to whatever arbitrary standard of how girls and women should be written. >But regardless of the reason, such a statement that Katara is the worst character or is bland is unwaveringly incorrect. Katara is not the worst, but the type of conclusion that completely ignores everything about Katara absolutely is the worst type of take to make about any character at all. >Katara is not bland, but this recurring perception that female characters must act like annoying, tomboy assholes to be interesting is definitely an unintelligent and bland take.It’s all of the above, leader of the Katara cult. People will find a way to hate on a female character even if they have to make up shit or reveal how little they can dissect media without clear bias.
>fujofag deliberately painting untrue conceptions about female characters to justify their yaoiThis part in particular is sad because you still see it everywhere. The only thing that can be made light of is the fact that the fujoshitters who do this are so obviously jealous of the female character who gets in the way, especially when those fujos are well in their 30’s by now still seething over the character and have to mischaracterize the female character as
abusive while ignoring the same if not worse in canon behaviours of the male characters. It's even more pathetic when one of the yaoi characters are so clearly infantilized, whiny self-inserts.
No. 1993576
I don't know how my post summoned a katarafag. I'm sorry.
>>1990907>It’s common among all sorts of fans and media and in real life too. It’s not a fujo-specific thing at all.I'm not gonna lie, I have cut people off for doing this. It's one thing to hate a love rival but if I meet someone who's seething fuck that's here and there bitching about every female character imaginable with zero self awareness I stop paying attention.
>I don’t think it’s a writing issue like you said.I guess, maybe. I was just addressing the general comeback to this issue being that female characters often are written by scrotes that don't know what they're doing or people who don't know how to write women, which is something I can concede. This argument however comes across as really disingenuous when it's a well built character that can stand on her own being paraded as queen bitch. But this isn't as common as people like to claim, but I think when it does happen it's especially egregious. I personally take even less seriously when the fujo can't write female characters either, and has every excuse pulled out the ass for literally anything. I'd respect this kind of person a thousand times more if the reasoning simply was "I like male characters better" instead of 4D chess and pretending they care about male homophobia and how shipping het ships is literally fag dragging
>>1991600Yeah, I think post 2010s pretty much the only people that truly hated female characters for genuine misogynist reasons were gendies. There wasn't a single one of them who did this that couldn't not write women like children, by the way. But it's also socially acceptable to be misogynistic if they hide it under a thin veneer of her being a TIF or a barely characterized lesbian
No. 1994044
>>1994041>King of the hillToo ugly for me
>Moral OrelI'd consider it in my top 3, it can count as a favorite alongside the other two just mentioned.
No. 1994052
File: 1715097791931.png (1.08 MB, 1023x574, screenshot-2019-10-25-16.png)
>>1994048Anon have you watched over the garden wall? It's fucking gorgeous and the character designs remind me more of vintage greeting cards over steven universe designs
This has been mentioned before by people but the reason south park is one of the only adult cartoons with a large female fanbase is because the kids look cute and a lot of the episodes feel like a CBDCT show.
No. 1994061
>>1994055Wrong
>>1994052Based and very pretty indeed
No. 1994127
>>1994095Yes I'm talking about western stuff. Handmaiden authors are so stupid because no male is reading their books. They are only virtue signalling to other handmaidens. Writing lesbian side characters would do the same thing AND showcase some female friendships.
>>1994105I completely forgot about ccs kek. Well in Clamp's case they are a group of pedo pandering weirdos. I was thinking more about Sailor Moon and Tokyo Mew Mew when I made that post.
No. 1994266
File: 1715110543591.jpeg (Spoiler Image,70.04 KB, 736x674, 1699780249332.jpeg)
>>1994259>why do you enjoy media of anyone "suffering"? because sexooooo
No. 1994348
>>1994259I recommend not replying to that anon, everything she posts is always one of the following
>"look how gigastacy I am for cooming to moids getting raped">completely missing the points of other nonas who just don't share her fetish>samefagging to support her pointsI personally think this thread should have ended quite a while ago when some wise nonas explained fujoism in very neutral and informative ways, such as
>>>/ot/1972772. Dragging it longer attracted these sorts of people who just wanna infight and cry
victim about being oppressed over their 2d porn interests kek
No. 1994362
>>1994348Why do you think she's samefagging? But i do agree with the last part, i think everything has been said already, i thought this thread was about to die already?
>>1994356It honestly makes that anon seem paranoid, sorry, anon…
No. 1994421
File: 1715121472589.png (600.21 KB, 471x573, 1674951393821247.png)
>>1994259I like one hot guy abusing another hot guy.
No. 1994457
>>1994441Sadly I'm no artist, I'm just saddened that the most talented of fanartist usually have a kick for men fucking each other's asses for some reason, they're never fully based and it's a tragedy
>>1994445Not if it's done by a based woman
No. 1994462
>>1994437I feel like fujos and femdom fans are two similarish but very separate groups that don't have nearly as much overlap as one would presume on first glance.
I've seen more overlap between fujos and yumes than fujos and femdom fans.
No. 1994470
>>1994467>I've mostly just accepted that femgaze femdom is super nicheWell, except for that one artist who draws the furry femdom stuff with the scruffy guy that gets posted here a lot.
Being a fujo though it does nothing for me however.
No. 1994659
>>1994515seems we got a genuine tumblr-level "if you enjoy media where anything bad happens you're evil" puritan.
gotta wonder what they deem acceptable. care bears?
No. 1994755
>>1994259look at how hard this post
triggered them LMAO
No. 1994769
>>1994755>simply answering a question is being triggered why are you so
triggered by fictional men getting hurt?
No. 1994826
File: 1715147165832.jpg (143.75 KB, 1024x731, 4576439746_022810e567_b.jpg)
Imagine all the better ways you could have used the time you've wasted arguing about yaoi on Lolcor. You have a finite amount of time before you die and this is how you chose to use it, arguing in circles about something totally meaningless and insignificant in the greater scheme of things.
No. 1998606
File: 1715408302024.jpg (254.21 KB, 1200x1128, E319bonXMAEyVS1.jpg)
People go trans because of mental problems, self hate, and autism.
Anything else is just "what flavor of tranny" and subject to trends.
Anime is popular so trannies flock to it and have it decribe their identity.
All nerd communities "make" trannies because all nerd communities are labels autistic can latch onto.
The actual content doesn't matter much at all.
No. 1998608
>>1998604anon the post says it's what they
want to become, not that they actually become it
No. 1998667
File: 1715416153919.jpg (65.1 KB, 1200x545, cf9.jpg)
>>1998663There is a nerd-to-tranny pipeline, but it's more common in TIMs. E.g. programmer trannies.
Also, fujos are not real nerds. They're just geeks.
No. 1998675
>>1998663Because other types of nerds don't troon out enmass like TIFs do. They engage in some other type of obsession, some good or neutral (like knitting crocheting collecting plushies etc), some harmful (porn, self harm, stalking a crush etc). Some of them might indeed troon out but the ratio is much less. The emotionally fragile people without a stable identity that troon out often have a
trigger for their transing, which can be anything from peer pressure (all the girls I considered peers with similar profiles are now nb/trans so maybe I am one as well?), homophobia (convincing butch lesbian nerds that they are failed women and would be better off as men) or in case of fujotroons, a belief that she's not like the "pathetic yumes that imagines getting fucked by a 2d husbando as a woman", but a #actualmale (who also imagines getting fucked by a 2d husbando but as a MAN).
On a less snarky note:As the nona I previously quoted, BL neither fights nor promotes misogyny, but it is a response to misogyny. So many fujos are girls and women who are very aware of how misogyny affects women and just want to see m/m romance that cannot show any misogyny by design, and it's not a surprise that the TIFs running away from misogyny would be overrepresented in fujo circles.
No. 1998683
>>1998675>Because other types of nerds don't troon out enmass like TIFs do.Are male nerds turning into trannies not an issue?
Also all the crochet communities I've tried have had gendies and trannies. Imo, tabletop games are more likely to throw a rock, hit a tranny than anime in general.
No. 1999085
>>1998728I keep trying to but I've learned I need to have a thin, extremely exclusionary filter because trannies in these hobbies stick to you like flies to shit. They try their hardest to befriend you and literally go into a depressive spiral if you turn them down or break off the friendship. They're still the same awkward male faggots deep down, except it's somehow even more socially acceptable for them to harass you for attention, because you can come off as a bitchy evil
TERF for not wanting to give them attention. Fucking troons.
No. 1999189
File: 1715460791315.jpeg (293.42 KB, 956x1148, IMG_3522.jpeg)
I wish anti-fujo people were funny like they used to be. They don’t make girls like picrel anymore.
No. 1999199
>>1999111Fixing twitter does work well, even with the rec feed there's little to none and I just mute/block/not interested that too.
It's not like there'll be content you're going to like if you don't push it off, it'll just be more gendie shit, right?
No. 1999354
>>1999111Based. Did you do it manually? I'm still looking for a good blockchain type thing or mass blocker.
>>1999196I larp as a moid by default and use a voice changer if I have to for years now. It makes me understand why fujo spaces exist in the first place, when the other side of the coin is openly declaring yourself as a woman and attracting the fucking tards. It's a good bet on an exclusively woman space even if you have to share it with a few socially retarded autistic tifs, but even then I see tims constantly try to infest it or cancel it (zomg ukes are transgirls!!1!)
No. 2001585
File: 1715630237015.jpg (205.8 KB, 1080x2408, 1000015830.jpg)
>>1999354Manually yes! My fandom isn't too big so it's doable. Any time I see gross shit like titchop scar art or saying shit like boypussy I immediately block. I also mute any fujo twitters with anything other than no pronouns or she/her, and have a long list of muted words (picrel+some more cursed shit)
No. 2001644
>>2001486strange that its always a retelling of a fujo raping others or being raped and its always the same rambling text style
>>>/ot/1972297besides all of this how the fuck does your "friend" reading bl means thats why she got herself raped by a moid? are you seriously trying to say its because she read yaoi she couldnt see the red flags? have you forgotten how normalized rape by men is in our society and how fucking difficult is to get through that trauma? are trying to blame it on her because she read gay drawn porn? and as if het porn doesn't have more extreme fetishes than your usual bl , next time write a better cohesive fanfiction
No. 2011698
File: 1716267509536.png (116.18 KB, 651x807, just misgender them and they'l…)
Possible actual moid who gets mad at fujos?
Either way, shut the fuck up scrote lmao
No. 2011962
>>2011725This kind of whiny online activist gay man wants to be oppressed by women so bad. They call fujos their oppressor because they need a category of women who systematically oppresses them. And why do they need that? Because they subconsciously hate women and need a way to shit on them without being considered misogynistic.
Criticizing fujoshi is common on tumblr but most of the times in more normie spaces they rag on Karens, terves or "cis" straight women instead.
No. 2011973
>>2011698Samefag as the reply above, but this is just funny. Gay men are the white people of LGB. You’re not oppressed by women of ANY orientation. You and your boyfriends’ income is higher than that of a
straight couple. You’re richer than the heterosexuals. No woman can rape you because of your hulking stature, and you regularly molest straight men for fun. You’re living life on easy mode. What a fucking joke faggots are.
No. 2034205
>>1998656I mean, most hobby spaces attract weak minded, identity conflicted people. People just want a space where they're accepted and cared about, yet I think some people go too far with their hobbies. Frankly, I think this phenomenon is more apparent in western fandoms. I sometimes go over and lurk in Japanese threads and forums and most of the women into yaoi are just regular women who aren't afraid to be women. They don't need to larp or change their entire gender. I think the issue with western fandoms is that we tend to link our identity with what we read, watch, etc. Basically, if I like this thing then I must be this, when that doesn't necessarily have to be the case. Or if you don't like something are too into something, you're either a bigot or a fetish freak. I'm not sure where this mindset came from, but it's deeply ingrained in every fandom I've been in. It's also one of the reasons why the only fujos I can stand are Japanese. Not only is their art better but they have a tendency of respecting each other's tags, etc.
No. 2036573
>>2036569Should probably add, this is not just a fujo thing but in general.
I see moids go fucking bananas because a series has a male and female character, not even romantically involved, and the moment she talks to another guy they start screeching "NTR!!! Ntr! Cuck! She's cucking him!!!" and start spamming death threats to the author when there's no fucking relationship to begin with.
No. 2036816
>>2036573literal mental illness. I had this theory that the reason scrotes hate ntr so much is that back in the day, women who weren't pleased by their current mate would scamper off to have kids with someone better, like some animals do in the wild. Of course this a theory, a extremely retarded theory but the amount of men who detest ntr outnumbers women who hate it. There's also the fact women are more likely to be faithful than men, a case of rules for thee, not for me becuase it's find if a man does it but lord forbid a woman sleeps with more than one man or has any male friends. Or, just friends for that matter.
>>2036668They're pixels, words, and data. I don't care if two fictional characters get it on becuase it doesn't hurt anyone. Why is it voyeurist to read a good love story or a steaming erotica? Are women banned for liking bodice rippers because she's watching two characters boning each other?
No. 2069038
>>2069015I'm celibate.
Fwiw most of the fujo I follow have kids, take from that what you will.
>>2069032I read books where people feel good killing people but I'm never going to do that either. Seperate fiction from reality.
No. 2069081
>>2069050Eh, it feels like every other bl nowadays as multiple pages of how sex can be dangerous and you need to do research and be prepared, even taking months timeskip in order to have sex just so that nothing bad happens.
Imagine if het porn got that.
No. 2069113
>>2069096Tbf, I feel there's a lot less commitment to eating cake than there is killing somebody.
It's a spectrum, but I feel like anal is more on the serious side and cake is not.
No. 2069209
>>2069038>Seperate fiction from realitywe know this doesn't happen for most people, many men now see things like choking as a normal part of sex and not the act of violence it really is because they've been watching it in porn all along. I think sexual stuff is particularly strong when it comes to translating fiction into reality.
>>2069015I've seen several tifs who did anal becuase they identified as gay men, it's undoubtly motivated by their yaoi consumption. It probably takes a lot for a fujo to go that far though, and at the very least identify as a theythem full time.
No. 2069215
>>2069209That's because separating fiction from reality is a skill you have to keep training.
By saying "doing anal sex because you watched it in a cartoon is very stupid, its a cartoon" I am training that skill.
By saying "well, fiction does effect reality, women should stay away from fiction that has anal" you are letting that skill degrade.
No. 2073605
File: 1719842586756.png (81.28 KB, 754x753, IMG_4018.png)
Much of Fujo culture is creating rule 63, but then refusesing to call it rule 63
No. 2087165
File: 1720839453972.jpg (87.14 KB, 600x857, 60780_3747474.jpg)
>>2087128It's because omegaverse is more light furry than it is het shit.
You can tell because a lot of it is actual furry.
For some reason people always forget to mention the whole deal with heat periods, biting, pheromones releasing, nesting, magic healing abilities, or the fact that it's based on wolves.
There's also the whole section of omegaverse where they turn into dogs.
No. 2087180
File: 1720841450206.jpeg (87.9 KB, 600x856, c845ac6e58bd0513d18990acbc30eb…)
>>2087170Some authors choose to lean into het dynamics but others choose to lean into the furry aspect.
Most just keep it to the shallow "heats and biting r sexy" deal. Of course, this depends on the crowd you're in.
There's other "verses" like cakeverse and dom/subverse which is mostly just petplay.
Honestly the whole thing would almost be impressive if the subject matter wasn't porn.
No. 2128595
File: 1723227513747.png (248.7 KB, 588x410, omegaverse.png)
I wonder why out in the wild whenever I see the "omegaverse is misogynistic" narrative popular on Lolcow being pushed off-anon it's never some based radfem account parroting it but ALWAYS troons of both sexes salty that they're not using trans men or sexy women instead of an imaginary omega sex.
No. 2128618
>>2128615They do. They also do weird shit women aren't known to do.
>>2087165>heat periods, biting, pheromones releasing, nesting, magic healing abilities, or the fact that it's based on wolves.There's also the whole section of omegaverse where they turn into dogs.
No. 2128644
>>2128620There's also yuri omegaverse.
Which is… more or less misogynistic? I don't fucking know.
It's all just an excuse to time skip magic baby.
No. 2128662
>>2128651Have you seen moid breeding kink porn?
Omegaverse is downright holy in comparison. Can't recall the name but there's a manga where the mc gets a bunch of loli women pregnant and they fight each other in revealing clothing, doing squats and sweating. It's very gross.
No. 2128673
>>2128667This is what happens when you overdose on really shitty gendie western fanfiction.
If you're going to call something out at least read a couple of the official stuff so you don't sound so demented.
No. 2128683
>>2128678Is neck bite bonding a real biological thing or is it silly fantasy?
Do women have the biological need to create nests?
No. 2128693
>>2128685Not every time skip magic baby has to do with misogyny.
Sometimes women just want to have fun with fantasy and make random shit up.
No. 2128768
>>2128678>you can't accept the biology of your ship and you need to force one of them into the stereotypical role of a woman.Even the usual yaoi can never escape the critique of being "heteronormative". Ukes having a uterus seems like a further development from that. In yaoi you have seme and uke, in yuri you have neko and tachi, i don't think any type of sexual relationship can escape that. Also fujos into omegaverse read the normal yaoi too, so i don't think it's a matter of "acceptance of biology" usually.
>>2128688>and/or are connected to the person who gets pregnant being subjugated and owned as a possessionA genre with crazy seahorse impregnating alpha women would be interesting, kek
>If anything the silly tropes are slightly disturbing as they take animalistic dynamicsWell, the whole point of the genre is to be feral animalistic, so ofc it's kind of cringe and disturbing. It's hypertrophied usual tropes, imo.
>>2128759I agree, tifs have creepiest fics overall, i've stumbled on a couple of omegaverse ones of theirs, they're always weirdly focused on breasts and vaginas, it's strange. Again, we used to have omegas with magical cloacas mostly.
No. 2128782
>>2128774What's wrong with heats?
It's usually just an excuse for "oh no the mc is suddenly horny and the book needed a sex scene immediately."
No. 2128798
>>2128782Well nothing, I find it personally uncomfortable because I don't like the concept of someone losing their mind over "pheromones", and it's a term used for female animals so not for me I guess. It's tolerable when it's kinky "sex right now" moments but when the author pulls out the suppressants and "skipping school because everyone will rape the uke" it just feels too inspired by women's birth control and oppression.
It's definitely not as weird as straight up mpreg and cuntboy shit though.
No. 2128807
>>2128768>Even the usual yaoi can never escape the critique of being "heteronormative".Maybe this is because I'm more into western fandoms as opposed to anime but I have read plenty of fics which are not heteronormative in the slightest. Just two handsome men enjoying each other's bodies which is nice and sexy to read. Yes, most time there's going to be a top and a bottom but it doesn't feel like a heterosexual dynamic.
Now I'm not saying all slash needs to be written like that, I understand everyone has their preference with their sexual fantasies. But I feel like taking a male, making him physically weaker than other men, giving him a uterus and forcing him into marriage with one of the stronger men is basically writing a heterosexual dynamic, and an oppressive one at that. There is some omegaverse that doesn't follow these tropes (two alphas for example, or alphas getting fucked by omegas) but it's the minority.
No. 2128844
>>2128807There's plenty of omegas now who don't look o behave stereotipically omega, but like usual guys, still omegas. Just like the usual yaoi mostly got rid of their own flower boys in recent years. Idk, maybe it's just me, but everything, even western, seems to be more or less "heteronormative", it's like a universal dynamic. Normal ukes are "pseudowomen" (!!! they were constantly called pseudowomen, since forever), but normal yaoi is less hypertrophied and bizarre.
>(two alphas for example, or alphas getting fucked by omegas) but it's the minority.Isn't it just an alpha bitching another alpha, or omega getting studded by bitching an alpha? They were always pandering switches as the right way of yaoi, i remember. Is it less heteronormative because they're more equal by changing roles? It's not heteronormative when the bottom is not societally opressed on the account of his bottomness? I don't get it. I think i don't completely understand what people mean by heterosexual dynamics, if anyone has a good definition, would be nice.
No. 2130279
>>2128684sorry for being retarded… is this sarcasm?
>>2128685>having a vagina and uterus and pregnancy being femalei know its retarded but i hate this sentence and it makes me wanna troon out. pregnancy is body horror
No. 2134544
File: 1723585663969.mp4 (7.48 MB, 1718294312173.mp4)
literally 99% of people would think this is "dark romance" crap and yet there will be fujos who will always claim "um he has a dick" like why is it hard to admit that the vast majority of yaoi is just toxic heterosexuality?
No. 2134595
>>2134544Killing Stalking was melodramatic and silly as hell, technically didn't even have a bl ending.
Some chick deciding to be pathetic woobified knock off Levi isn't something to take seriously.
No. 2134600
File: 1723587662287.png (219.13 KB, 665x820, v8GH9Sv.png)
>>2134578buttfucking and often getting pregnant, that's the delusional fujos jave created for themselves and that's why it's so easy for them to troon out
No. 2135078
>>2134600Isnt this character shipped with a giant wolf?
It really is just furry.
No. 2136716
>>2136020Every rare time I open the fandom discourse thread, it's fujos seething about muh yurifags when they're just complaining about people shitting on f/f. They manage to contort even the mildest general complaint into a call for action for all fujos to be forced to write and draw f/f ships as if any lesbian wants a straight woman to attempt fitting seme and uke dynamics into f/f ships. Or they take what a retarded tranny says as representative as if actual lesbians don't hate them more and fujos don't have their own issue with retarded tifs.
>>2136198 is right. The bisexual and "lesbian" fujos are especially like this because instead of just admitting they're more interested in men fucking, they have to cope by bullshitting all female characters / f/f are bad and by / for men so their super speshul kweer identity is heckin
valid.
No. 2136962
>>2136906So, trying to get this straight, "fujoshi need to get fucked so they can be cured of being fujoshi"?
Is this a moid fantasy?
No. 2136975
>>2134603Mpreg is so dumb. What's the point when one of the guys acts more or less like a woman right down to anatomy? just do het at that point.
>>2136968Why can't they just admit to liking men fucking and be done with it? Some himes still won't buy it, but it's better than writing a 20-page essay on why yuri is bad, actually. Going through this thread has actually corrected my own perceptions on the genre because TIMs always ruin everything and made me hate yuri when before I couldn't care less (even read a few when I was younger). People are obligated not to consume everything, but by turning into a popularity contest, more and more get burned by ever reading a genre thanks to it. Having less to read is good when the most of it is pretty high quality.
No. 2136987
File: 1723719776202.jpg (1016.57 KB, 1920x1080, Isami_Ao_(charsheet).jpg)
>>2136984How much does a man have to be "manly" for it to be considered a man in your eyes?
Pic related was the katest big trend in fujobait. What makes him a woman?
What would you change to make an "uke" character a "man"? Leg hair?
No. 2137683
>>2137584The TIFs who took T very seriously on their troon out and literally look like men because they were ashamed to be lesbian when they were younger usually only care about F/F ships. This is because they are attracted to females and a very serious case of internalized homophobia (or more likely, from cultural factors) caused them to troon out. They take their male identity very seriously because being able to be with the same sex or allow themselves to be a lesbian can only happen to them under a veil of heterosexuality. Blanchard would call these TIFs "HSTS" (homosexual transssexuals).
The TIF fujotroons (which now make up the majority) are heterosexual women, and are what Blanchard calls "AHE" (autohomoerotic transsexuals) and it is the female version of AGP (autogynephilia). Contrary to what fujos say, this CAN be aggravated by consuming primarily M/M media. These fujos often detransition (because they realize they can just live easier as straight women). They often express after detransitioning that they wanted to "become their own husbando." These fujos prior to transition often claim to have been "lesbian all along," and express confusion of why they suddenly become interested in men after transitioning. But when you look into their dating history, it's clear that they primarily dated men, and are just attracted to the idea of homosexuality with a man, but since they can't achieve that homosexual relationship when they're "identifying as a woman," they identify as "lesbian" for the time being (settling). Hence why so many ""lesbians"" go on T and then become "trans gay men." These straight women, because they are straight, only care about M/M content and "gay trans man" is just another way of saying straight woman. They are the female version of AGP prison gay transbians.
No. 2137790
File: 1723752242667.jpg (134.66 KB, 720x862, Ut7.jpg)
>>2136996It's the popular fotm and the "tanned roidpig" archetype is trend in recent bl, especially Korean.
Your idea of an uke is from a decade ago.
No. 2137897
>>2137824Yeah, I can see lesbians enjoying non sexual stuff - it’s really the ones who draw/consume yaoi porn that give me question.
>>2137873That’s bizarre, isn’t it basically tif shit at that point? Or am I exaggerating?
No. 2137961
>>2137329>>2137312This. I consider myself a fujoshi (I predominantly draw/write M/M) but I've occasionally written/drawn F/F stuff, too. While I'm sure there are fujos out there for dislike F/F for whatever reason, most of us are either neutral or positive about it. Anons like
>>2136020 are either making up people to be mad at, or they hang out in very weird corners of the internet (Lolcor) that are not actually representative of people as a whole.
No. 2137992
>>2136716I'm probably one of the anons you're mad at from the fandom thread. No one is "shitting on" (god I'm fucking sick of that phrase) F/F. Literally no one. We're clowning on you because you spend more time complaining about the popularity of M/M than you do writing your own stuff. I'm trying to communicate to you that you are the source of your own misery, because the lack of F/F content is a problem you can personally solve by just making more if it yourself.
Again, I've written F/F myself (typically in fandoms for IPs that have mostly female characters) and I do not put them in seme/uke roles. I don't even do that with male characters. Stereotypical seme/uke has fallen out of favor in the West, and even to a lesser extent in Japan. Complaining about seme/uke in 2024 is like complaining about denim skirts in 2024. It's out of fashion, and the people still into it are either resistant to change or they have such weirdly specific taste that their opinion won't be changed by your screaming at them.
I genuinely don't understand what the handful of hyper-aggrieved anti-fujos in this thread are trying to achieve. You want people to stop disliking female characters? Well, the radfems on Lolcor are a weird place to start, especially when you guys are so annoying that even reasonable anons here don't want to listen to you anymore. Want people to stop "shitting on" (ugh) your ship(s)? Stop interacting with retards and teenagers, then, because those are the only people who participate in ship wars. Mad that M/M and/or male characters are popular with women? Tough shit, most women are straight, and there isn't anything you can do about that. It's not healthy to get angry about things you can't control.
>>2136965>scholars of BL>it's a bunch of moids using word salad to cry about how the evil women are oppressing gay menHmm, well maybe these "repressed fujoshis" wouldn't be averse to fucking men if IRL men weren't such repulsive losers. I'd like to know what the porn consumption habits are of the moids who wrote this claptrap are. Christ forbid women do ANYTHING fun, nope, gotta aggressively over-anaylize and shame us for it.
No. 2138052
>>2137992>it's a bunch of moids using word salad to cry about how the evil women are oppressing gay men>I'd like to know what the porn consumption habits are of the moids who wrote this claptrap are. Christ forbid women do ANYTHING fun, nope, gotta aggressively over-anaylize and shame us for it.The scholar I quoted (Kazumi Nagaike) is a Japanese woman and an exclusive scholar of BL who has written multiple entire books on the subject and proposed the field of "BL Studies" using the framework of another woman, Nakajima Azusa. The article I quoted specifically in my post was "What is Japanese “BL Studies?”: A Historical and Analytical Overview," co-written by Nagaike herself along with another female sociologist, Tomoko Aoyama. Actually, the majority of the other researchers and authors of the articles featured the book I linked are female Japanese sociologists, all of whom were familiar with BL as a community enough to study it as an emerging social phenomenon. You are not interested in studying social phenomena or their developments, just compulsively slandering everything that you feel is an attack on your interest. I trust the opinions and insights of people (again, mostly Japanese women) who have studied this subject in depth in a historical and sociological context over some hyperdefensive (likely white) Western internet fujoshis, sorry. This lack of critical thinking and rush to jump to compulsively defend and counterattack anyone (mostly women) who even discusses the BL fandom without instantly affirming it (the line I quoted from this article is not even critical of BL fans. In fact, the article is quite neutral and sympathetic and even just stating observable facts about how historical/societal female oppression contributes to the consumption of BL and interest in it that we take for granted as obvious observations about fujoshis today) speaks to exactly the repression that the article was naming in the first place.
https://academic.oup.com/mississippi-scholarship-online/book/15641/chapter-abstract/170392532 No. 2138430
>>2138052Most of the names on the study are moid professors who teach gender studies classes. These are not "mostly women." I don't care if you or the windbags who wrote that crap think I'm "repressed," my life is a hell of a lot better because I'm not dating a loser moid.
>a Japanese woman and an exclusive scholar of BL who has written multiple entire books on the subject and proposed the field of "BL Studies" That's fucking pathetic. Japan has the worst gender equality of any first-world nation, and this is how she decides to use her time and resources? Getting a useless MFA in English Lit (not psychology or anything related to how human sexuality works) and using it to tut-tut other women for being "repressed?"
>You are not interested in studying social phenomena or their developmentsNeither is she, because that's not what her fucking degree is in. She's a lit major LARPing as a sexologist. Also, if your sticking point is that I'm an evil huwite Westerner who isn't an expert on Japanese fujoshis, then by the same logic you can't use her work on Japanese women as a basis for assumptions about American ones (which by your own admission are the people at issue here.) Especially when, as I already established, Japan has worse gender inequality than any anglophone country, so they and Western women are going to have different attitudes towards sex and relationships because of that.
No. 2138486
>>2138430>Most of the names on the study are moid professors who teach gender studies classes.Gender studies (used to be "women's studies") is a subsection of sociology, but anyway no, the book (Boys Love Manga and Beyond: History, Culture, and Community in Japan) contains articles written by majority Japanese women sociologists, literary critics and film critics. All the listed Australian male literature professors did was compile these articles into a book and write an introduction into the subject.
>These are not "mostly women."The article I directly quoted and was referencing featured in the book (What is Japanese “BL Studies?”: A Historical and Analytical Overview) was written by solely two women - Nagaike and Aoyama - using a Japanese woman's (Azusa) framework.
>Also, if your sticking point is that I'm an evil huwite Westerner who isn't an expert on Japanese fujoshis, then by the same logic you can't use her work on Japanese women as a basis for assumptions about American ones (which by your own admission are the people at issue here.)I didn't say you're evil, just that you're probably less informed on the subject of the rise of BL throughout the years than a Japanese critic who has been studying it as a phenomenon native to her country for decades. First you assumed she was a "moid," and now you're blatantly dismissing her as a "pathetic windbag with a useless MFA" because you don't like what she said and you're being hair-
trigger defensive.
>I don't care if you or the windbags who wrote that crap think I'm "repressed," my life is a hell of a lot better because I'm not dating a loser moid.>Japan has the worst gender equality of any first-world nation, and this is how she decides to use her time and resources? Getting a useless MFA in English Lit (not psychology or anything related to how human sexuality works) and using it to tut-tut other women for being "repressed?""Dating a moid" has nothing to do with how repressed/unrepressed you are. What does is how much you're willing to confront (and yes, discuss) your own sexuality as a woman and the sexuality of other women. By being aggressive and hyperdefensive toward any discussion of female (fujoshi) sexuality, yes, you are coming off as repressed, ironically proving Nagaike's quote correct. You think frankly any discussion of fujoshis that isn't immediate blind affirmation is an attack, even insinuating the only reason anyone would analyze this phenomenon is if they're "not focused on gender equality," even though the entire point of the article is to point out how gender inequality contributed to the rise in BL. You immediately feel the need to defend your personal life when someone who has studied the phenomenon and wrote books on the subject even speculates herself that the high consumption of BL (and increasing popularity across the globe)
itself might have something to do with female gender inequality (and the repression/shame women feel therein - the desire to alienate oneself from one's body through elimination of the female form altogether). Instead of being interested in gaining any insight into this phenomenon (in manga, which is exactly within the range of critique for Literature critics, whom often work as sociologists-through-analysis too - if you read any Dworkin you'd know what I'm talking about) you'd rather everyone just shut up and not talk about it at all, because you think even talking about it or drawing that link is "misogynist." That speaks to a repressed attitude where you feel "exposed" and subsequently ashamed, so you feel the need to attack the person/people who "exposed" you as retribution. Not an uncommon attitude amongst fujoshis.
No. 2138487
>>2134573Doesn't seem literally the same to me, tbh. I don't want to insert into woman with her bodice getting ripped, i want to see a cute guy getting fucked. But i do agree that those genres do come off as kind of similar, and i'm sure a lot of women can read both. I read some yume stuff sometimes too, just don't like it as much and don't like when it has sex scenes.
>>2136020Most fujos are okay with yuri, sometimes even ship something or try to get into it, just don't end up as passionate about it. I think i definitely saw anons here complaining about fake yurifags who end up being just fujos, kek.
No. 2139353
>>2138486>you'd rather everyone just shut up and not talk about it at allShow me where I said this. The main reason I responded with hostility to the journal is because you weaponized it against a retarded hobby. Take your Dworkin crap to 2X, not everyone on this site is a TELF who stans a dead tranny apologist.
Fuck yeah I'm defensive, you want an award for pointing it out? You insulted something I do for fun, what do you expect me to do? Thank you for scolding me like a schoolmarm? I guarantee you that there's shit you do that's a hell of a lot more unhealthy than looking at manga, or being "repressed" or what the fuck ever. Clean your own fucking house and stop autistically fixating on "owning" people whose hobbies you don't like.
No. 2139445
>>2139353>Show me where I said this.You literally just said it in this same post.
>Clean your own fucking house and stop autistically fixating on "owning" people whose hobbies you don't like.If you don't like this thread, then stop reading it. The real "autism" is trying to come into this thread and dictate to other people what
not to post about because you can't/won't stick to your own thread to avoid getting butthurt. I and everyone else are allowed to discuss whatever we want, including fujos, and you have no right to tell anyone else what to post, especially not in a thread (this thread) dedicated to this topic. You're not only acting incredibly entitled, but you're being annoying and your aggressive overdefensiveness is getting old. If you want to play the
victim, go somewhere else like fujochan and whine about it.
>Fuck yeah I'm defensive, you want an award for pointing it out? You insulted something I do for fun, what do you expect me to do?Stop coming into the thread dedicated to discussing fujoshis just to piss yourself off when someone does exactly that, maybe? Who does that besides someone who's already insecure about her "hobby" and needs to lash out at people she feels is criticizing her as a person by merely discussing that hobby, even if they aren't? Your hobbies shouldn't be your entire identity, so stop taking it so personally. Maybe log off and take a jog to get the fumes out if it offends you that badly. Throwing around insults and being defensive to the point where you compulsively slander anyone who discusses BL from a neutral perspective is never going to get people on your side.
No. 2139677
>>2139445I never, ever told anyone to shut up. Telling you to look at yourself before scolding other people for their "vices" is not the same as silencing you. I told you to stop fixating on "owning" people, not stop discussing the topic altother. Plenty of people are critical of BL without spiraling into obsessively psychoanalyzing and moral fagging. Criticizing the genre and trying to assassinate the character of people who enjoy it are two different things. If anything,
you're telling me to shut up by demanding that I leave and go take a walk or whatever.
>stop coming to this threadHuh, I thought the title was "Fujo vs Anti-fujo discourse thread" not "anti-fujo echochamber." You already have a thread, fujo cringe, to bitch about us in where we (theoretically at least) aren't supposed to defend ourselves.
And I gotta ask, what is the alternative to being "repressed" in your mind? What does being "not repressed" look like to you, since thats apparently how you demand I be? The answer can't be dating moids, because you already said that's not what it is.
No. 2139766
>>2139677>I never, ever told anyone to shut up. Telling you to look at yourself before scolding other people for their "vices" is not the same as silencing you. I told you to stop fixating on "owning" people, not stop discussing the topic altother. Plenty of people are critical of BL without spiraling into obsessively psychoanalyzing and moral fagging. Criticizing the genre and trying to assassinate the character of people who enjoy it are two different things. If anything, you're telling me to shut up by demanding that I leave and go take a walk or whatever.Stop being pedantic. When I said you want people to shut up and not talk about it at all, it's because you came in this thread aggrieved that a book was written analyzing the BL audience in the first place. You said that the only reason any female literary scholar would be interested in this is if they weren't focused on the problem of gender inequality. Still, you claim that analyzing an audience/consumers of fictional works is just "obsessive psychoanalyzing" and "autistic moralfagging." How is the implication, then, anything other than you just wanting people to shut up and stop talking about it because to you any discussion of a BL audience that isn't completely positive is obsessive psychoanalysis/moralfaggotry? Is every discussion of the nature of the fujoshi fandom "character assassination"? And what does "fixated on 'owning' people" mean? I have a feeling you're projecting a little here. Literally all I did was quote a single article and you reflexively responded by calling it useless claptrap written by "moid porn addicts". Your argumentative strategy is to attack first, then walk back the obvious implications of the things you've already said that have been pointed out because "technically you didn't say that," and then accuse the other person of actually being the one who did [X]. But then again, by your own admission, you're just being defensive even though you and other BL fans were never being attacked, not by me or by the authors of that article. You came in this thread swinging, incredibly aggressive and accusatory, foaming at the mouth ready to attack both me and the authors of the article I quoted. No one is "attacking the character" of BL fans by positing that women's sexual repression may contribute to the production/consumption of BL, which is already pretty much an accepted social fact at this point. And in fact, the misogynistic nature of Japanese society (noted by multiple authors and articles in the book I linked) is most likely why the genre first arose there in the first place. Is stating that "attacking the character" of women who read BL? No. It's pointing out the reality of a cultural sexual repression of women and how that feeds into fiction. It's a conversation you, and many fujoshis, are uncomfortable with. That's part of the "repression" they're speaking about.
>Huh, I thought the title was "Fujo vs Anti-fujo discourse thread" not "anti-fujo echochamber."I didn't order you to stop coming in this thread. I said if it pisses you off so much to see people discussing it instead of mindlessly affirming it, maybe don't read the thread dedicated to people discussing it from a neutral perspective, because you literally asked me:
>Fuck yeah I'm defensive, you want an award for pointing it out? You insulted something I do for fun, what do you expect me to do?and I responded:
>Stop coming into the thread dedicated to discussing fujoshis just to piss yourself off when someone does exactly that, maybe?…
>And I gotta ask, what is the alternative to being "repressed" in your mind? What does being "not repressed" look like to you, since thats apparently how you demand I be? The answer can't be dating moids, because you already said that's not what it is.I already answered that, and you'd know if you actually took the time to read my posts instead of banging out angry rants every time.
No. 2139857
>>2139766>I already answered thatNot really. You said that in order to be "not repressed" a person has to "confront and discuss" their sexuality. But what is the end goal of that, exactly? What do you want to happen to me after I have some kind of epiphany about BL from letting you lecture me and agreeing to everything you say (since that's your idea of a "discussion," apparently.) Either I continue liking what I like in a way you deem adequately "self-aware" and you antis continue to seethe at me for the crime of liking something you don't, or I convert to liking all the same shit you do, because you have the Correct opinion, and only an Enlightened person who is Not Repressed can have your Enlightened Taste.
I'm being "hyper-aggressive" because that's the atmosphere of this thread. Idk what you think a healthy discussion of sexuality is, but it's not a retarded image board where everyone is hurling insults and accusations at each other. You don't know me. You have no idea how I discuss my interests and sexuality with normal human beings outside of schizocow.farm. This is like saying that a lesbian is "repressed" because she gets defensive when a bunch of people are screeching "dyke" at her. Hey, maybe the issue isn't actually that she's repressed, but that the environment she's in fucking sucks for introspection and the people in that space aren't worth having that conversation with in the first place.
I want to know what the fuck it is you actually want from me. In plain English. Don't give me that flowery bullshit that you want me to "confront my sexuality." I'm a fucking stranger on the internet, that's clearly not what you actually give a crap about here. What actually brought you to this thread in this first place, before you ever interacted with me? What is it about fujoshis that aggrieved you so severely that you dug through
fucking Google scholar for the sake of defending your intense hatred of shitty drawings and the strangers who enjoy them? You can coat that in all the purple prose you want, but that is fundamentally what you did: you wasted time doing
research for the sake of an anonymous online argument about
yaoi. That's the behavior of someone who is truly invested to an unhealthy degree in hating other peoples' hobbies.
No. 2139891
>>2139857>I'm being "hyper-aggressive" because that's the atmosphere of this thread. Idk what you think a healthy discussion of sexuality is, but it's not a retarded image board where everyone is hurling insults and accusations at each other.>Hey, maybe the issue isn't actually that she's repressed, but that the environment she's in fucking sucks for introspection and the people in that space aren't worth having that conversation with in the first place.If you don't want to have discussions on lolcow, why are you still here? I'm so confused by these contradicting statements. You come into a thread meant to discuss fujoshis and then say you "can't properly discuss fujoshis" because the "environment sucks." Not only do you (not) help contribute to said environment with every post you make so that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and try to shut down any discussion by harassing people for mere neutral discussion of BL or its fandom, but you're coming in here to argue by being hostile, hyperdefensive of your "hobby" (more like an identity given how personally you seem to take criticism of it) and attacking everyone who posts anything even slightly critical of or even neutral about BL/BL fandom in order to personally insure that productive discussion is impossible while you're active in the thread. You're the one who came in here hurling insults at not only me, but some other people in this thread who were critical of the M/M fandom, AND a bunch of authors (including the woman I quoted) whom you wrongly assumed were "porn-addicted moids" who were actually Japanese women academics, whom after learning this you then proceeded to call "moralfags" with "useless MFAs in literature" who "weren't focused on the real issues of gender inequality." Imagine if everyone told every literary or film critic who wasn't focused on becoming a social statistician studying domestic abuse instead or whatever that they were just "wasting their time" and "not focused on the real issues." Not to mention the fact that you only hurled these baseless insults in the first place because you felt your hobby (BL) and its fanbase was "under attack" by these writers simply by virtue of being analyzed under a
feminist framework akin to the way any book, film or their fandoms would be analyzed (wait until you learn about "Fan Studies").
>What do you want to happen to me after I have some kind of epiphany about BL>I want to know what the fuck it is you actually want from me. In plain English.I don't want anything from YOU. This is not a thread about YOU. This a thread about discussing fujoshis as a whole, as a group, not YOU as an individual. YOU came in here and decided to take the scholarly quote I posted personally when it isn't.
>What is it about fujoshis that aggrieved you so severely that you dug through fucking Google scholar for the sake of defending your intense hatred of shitty drawings and the strangers who enjoy them? You can coat that in all the purple prose you want, but that is fundamentally what you did: you wasted time doing research for the sake of an anonymous online argument about yaoi. That's the behavior of someone who is truly invested to an unhealthy degree in hating other peoples' hobbies.You think the fact that the study on BL was even written was due to the authors being "invested to an unhealthy degree in hating other peoples' hobbies."
>I'd like to know what the porn consumption habits are of the moids who wrote this claptrap are. Christ forbid women do ANYTHING fun, nope, gotta aggressively over-anaylize and shame us for it.The reason sociologists, literary critics, film critics, and historians study groups of people including fanbases is not because they 'hate' them. It's not about 'hating' anything. I don't 'hate' yaoi, BL, or fujoshis, and neither do any of the authors featured in the book. You must have an absolutely massive
victim complex to think that. This is lolcow, where you don't know my background either (I never claimed to know about yours), and since you have a
victim complex you're assuming I'm coming at this from a place of hatred. I'm simply not: that's you projecting your extremely negativistic personality onto me.
Since you've been so defensive, confusing, pedantic and inflammatory with your posts, I have to wonder what's motivating you to keep coming back to these same threads that piss you off and that you admitted you think are "bad environments for discussion," and I think that unfortunately what you're trying to do right now is trying to bury any rightful criticisms of BL/yaoi or its fandom(s) under long arguments you'll bait anyone into hoping that it that lasts several posts so that the threads devolve into petty pedantisms instead of keeping to the topic at hand (to distract from any criticism of BL/BL fandom), so this will be the last time I respond to you. Hopefully any other anons in this thread learn from this and don't reply to your bait in the future. It should be easy, since your overtly aggressive, whiny posting style is easily identifiable.
No. 2140948
>>2140928Both straight ships and BL ships engage in misogyny by putting the female secondary or background characters in their stories as archetypal stereotypical characters who either act like maid therapist mommies to the main couple or is a seductress villainess bitch.
The female character in the straight 18+ story Wild nights who is a older sister to the female main character, worked hard to protect her younger sister, had to do prostitution to help her sister survive and now will be married to some man who hates her and is only using her as a replacement for the person who he actually wants who is her younger sister and abuses the older sister, and thats basically the older sisters life. There is no compassiom from the writer or the readers of this story towards the ilder sister because in romance stories the female secondary or background characters are supposed to be self-sacrificing or if they are not then they are cartoonish villains.
No. 2141014
>>2139891What you invited me to do wasn't "have a discussion" it was to "confront my sexuality," like you're my goddamn therapist. This is not a good environment for the kind of introspection you claim to want from me. Or I guess fujoshis collectively like we're some kind of hivemind, since you take issue with the word "me."
I made some baseless assumptions about the article (it's not a "study") based on it being brought up in this context. If I'd come across it on Google or whatever, I probably wouldn't have reacted the same way. I was unfair to the author because I attributed your traits to her. I still maintain that getting an MFA in lit to study yaoi is a pretty frivolous way for someone to use access to higher education, though. She's entitled to do what she wants, though, and she doesn't deserve to be insulted just because a random puritan on Lolcor weaponized her writing in an argument.
>diagnoses me with all sorts of complexes and repression>(I never claimed to know about yours)Pick one.
>what you're trying to do right now is trying to bury any rightful criticisms of BL/yaoi or its fandom(s) under long argumentsYou do realize that when people click on the thread, it takes them to the top of the page, right? Replying to the thread doesn't "bury" anything.
>I don't want anything from YOU.Kek now you're being pedantic, too, and as a means of not answering my question. I asked you (YOU, specifically):
>What is it about fujoshis that aggrieved you so severely that you dug through fucking Google scholar for the sake of defending your intense hatred of shitty drawingsThis question was not about the author of the article. It was about YOU. Why did YOU do that? Why are YOU so invested in this? I have a reason to be invested: you're nitpicking something I like. What's your reason, since it's not hatred, as you insisted:
>I don't 'hate' yaoi, BL, or fujoshis,Do you just enjoy wasting your own time?
No. 2141411
>>2136716NTA, I've seen fujos here on lc (and on other imageboards) interpret "wanting to promote your preferred genre of romance" as "wanting to force fujos to abandon BL and cater to you", so many times, it cannot be a coincidence. Those posters must have some sort of personality disorder or be really young and immature. Or maybe it's the result of spending too much time on the internet. Their persecution complex gets ridiculous sometimes.
When I say "their" I only mean these specific posters #NotAllFujos>>2139891Love you nonna, great post. Holy shit after reading all of it you're so ultra mega based for this. I would've done the same, but it's just so tiring writing these detailed and well thought out posts that the other person is just going to mostly ignore to throw retarded accusations at you anyway, and with such a calm mind too. I just want you to know that other anons read and agree with your posts. Very informative, too.
I noticed how her knee-jerk reaction was to completely ignore the sources you cited because she thought you were calling her repressed and that the authors were putting blame on the woman for it. They actually thought those Japanese academics were saying that fujos need to get fucked kek how the fuck do you even reach that conclusion… This lack of critical thinking and reading comprehension is unbelievable. It's so fucking obvious the author did not mean that at all, and was probably arguing that women are repressed because they're oppressed as a sex class (I read your other posts and turns out I was right). Fujos like her don't realize these analyses are about fujos in general and not about her, and that fujos on lc don't represent all fujos either, not even in the west (so there shouldn't be a reason to get offended over what was observed and analyzed in fujoshi that are different from them).
That particular poster got so sensitive over the word "repressed" that she went to the male vs. female character thread and attacked a different anon that made a neutral observation about fujos because she thought that anon was you kekekekek I fucking hate hypersensitive, hyperdefensive, paranoid morons like this, they make intelligent discussion impossible, and when you point that out, they mock you for ever trying to have that on this imageboard as if it was forbidden here to use your brain. "A-actually YOU'RE the retard for not acting retarded, NOT me!!! HA-HA" Typical.Also, in one of your previous posts
>>2138486 you mentioned
>That speaks to a repressed attitude where you feel "exposed" and subsequently ashamedThere's a tendency amongst our local fujospergs to call other nerdy women "cringe", especially yumejoshi. Yumes often proudly accept that what they do is considered cringe-worthy, so they don't seem to have the same level of anxiety over what others think about them as these fujos, it doesn't affect them much to be called autistic or cringe (the anti-yume thread that got locked a while ago had a lot of yumes just having fun laughing at themselves and didn't get many replies kekmao). But these specific fujos seem to have an obsession over how they're perceived by their peers, like they impulsively shit on other women's taste whether the other person was being a shithead or not. It always makes me think if they aren't just terrified of being "cringe" themselves, which no one but the obvious anti-fujo trolls are accusing them of being. Hence why they interpret any sort of analysis of their preferred media and communities as a personal attack, such as thinking that "repressed" is always an insult, no matter the context (hell, even I consider myself repressed. It's nothing to be ashamed of and I know no one is persecuting me for saying women's sexualities are repressed in a misogynistic society - quite the opposite, someone who says that is being sympathetic to me). Then they neurotically try to shut you down. You're absolutely right about this based on what I, and other anons here, have seen.
>>2141154Everyone who disagrees with them is the same person or a moid or a prude or a homophobe, didn't you know. They always assume there's one or two posters (at most) with a hateboner for fujos and those are the ones making every single comment about fujoshi, whether it be the obvious baity ones, the well-written and civil ones that are looking for serious discussion, or just casual, non-aggressive comments from someone who just joined the thread. They hate it when people who do not explicitly self-identify as one of them analyze their fujo fandom because they feel personally attacked, maybe they're afraid of being called troons or cringe, or something else they won't like, idk. At their age they should be able to distinguish beween those who genuinely attack them for their tastes and people who simply want to find out why we like stuff, especially stuff that is sexual and might have deep psychological implications (many of these people who want to find out were at some point fujos themselves). They don't realize it's exactly that sort of overly defensive behaviour that gives them such bad rep. God forbid some of us are curious as to why women like what they like, because fuck curiosity i guess. I've never seen yumes, husbandofags or other kinds of nerds on this site get so aggressively defensive when others try to respectfully figure out why their kind have those preferences. Analyzing this stuff can be pretty fun but these people make it really hard to keep the discussion civil.
>>2139821The funniest thing is that it wasn't even a criticism, it was just analyzing fujos. And I don't think it was aimed at her either, since every single post that this one
>>2136906 was replying to referred to the fujo fandom as a whole, not that fujo anon nor lc fujos in particular (one was even a screenshot from Twitter, why are they getting offended over a Twitter Mpregfag artist being called "repressed"? Oh right, because they
are Twitterfags as seen in their usage of the term "antis" here
>>2139857).
No. 2141492
>>2141411>"wanting to promote your preferred genre of romance" as "wanting to force fujos to abandon BL and cater to you"I talked to those anons, they're saying they found bizarre that those people complain about large number of BL rather than making their own stuff, they suspect that such people have zero sum mindset - if there's more yaoi, there's less hetero stuff for them, so this is where the "cater to you" take comes from. I don't think they do, they're just frustrated seeing it all the time, but how is this our fault, lmao, we should go into internet counterpart of caves and hide? The jealousy over our amount of content should become something more productive and enjoyable for them. Also how did you get "i want to rpomote my genre" from "i'm so annoyed seeing fujostuff all the time, you're everywhere, ugggh"?
>Their persecution complex gets ridiculous sometimes.I sometimes get that impression from the anti-fujo side as well.
>They actually thought those Japanese academics were saying that fujos need to get fucked kek The idea is kind of implied and in the air, you stop repressing - you stop being a deviant and liking yaoi (and also the rape trope, presumably). Maybe not in this paper, but that's something you can hear irl quite often.
>That particular poster got so sensitive over the word "repressed" that she went to the male vs. female character thread and attacked a different anon that made a neutral observation about fujos because she thought that anon was you kekekekekI was the anon in the male vs female thread, i didn't specifically went there to fight about that, the majority of my post was fairly neutral as well.
>Fujos like her don't realize these analyses are about fujos in general and not about her, and that fujos on lc don't represent all fujos either, not even in the west (so there shouldn't be a reason to get offended over what was observed and analyzed in fujoshi that are different from them)That anon made such an encompassing statement and then proceeded to assume she was the same as the japanese ones (presumably) are though, there was no differentiation.
>That speaks to a repressed attitude where you feel "exposed" and subsequently ashamedIsn't it completely off-putting? It's so off-putting to talk like that and psychoanalyze anons like that and say she's in denial if she doesn't agree and seems "defensive"? That's so creepy. I got
triggered over that.
>There's a tendency amongst our local fujospergs to call other nerdy women "cringe", especially yumejoshi.Is there a tendency in fujos to call nerdy women cringe? Which ones exactly, except yumes? Also himes sometimes. Because all of those groups are infighting together. Idk why war with yumejoshi started, they probably thought they were mainly being anti-fujosperging, but i'm not sure.
>such as thinking that "repressed" is always an insult"Repressed" theory just sounded extremely retarded. The anon's leap into assumption that they meant they should stop repressing their feminine sexuality and get fucked is understandable because that's how those conversations could often go, sadly. There was nothing particularly "intelligent" in it and we heard it 1000 times already for decades and it was indeed weaponized, i don't blame her.
>maybe they're afraid of being called troons or cringe, or something else they won't like, idk. Not afraid exactly, it just became extremely tiresome over time to hear how we're mysogynistic, immoral and mentally ill porn-addicts, of course the pushback started to form. Those threads started to pop after infights started by hostile anti-fujo posters were happening for years already, the defensiveness is understandable, imo. It does quite seem like team sports now, like an anon from meta said, kek. Not a good environment at all.
No. 2141502
>>2141492As far as "fujos are sexually repressed", it's a fairly standard idea thrown by men to insult them, and some jerk off to the idea of fujoshi authors self inserting into uke and talk about how they "can be cured" with their dick by force "it's what they write, they must want a rapechad".
After seeing that everywhere, it's not surprising "fujoshi are sexually repressed" has a "fuck you and fuck off" reflex.
No. 2142092
File: 1724005812157.gif (73.07 KB, 220x145, hamster-hamtaro.gif)
>>2141492Thank you based nona. Have a blessed day.
No. 2142194
>>2141492>>2141502>I got triggered i'm sure you did
>they should stop repressing their feminine sexuality and get fucked is understandable because that's how those conversations could often go, sadly. There was nothing particularly "intelligent" in it and we heard it 1000 times already for decades and it was indeed weaponized, i don't blame her.so which one is it? do anti-fujos just want women to shut up and get fucked by men (i've never heard any one of them ever say that), or are they all
femcel lesbians who want to convert straight women to lesbianism by "forcing" them to care about f/f? you fujos just can't ever make up your mind. you're throwing whatever you can to the wall and seeing what sticks to make yourselves seem oppressed lol
>As far as "fujos are sexually repressed", it's a fairly standard idea thrown by men to insult them, and some jerk off to the idea of fujoshi authors self inserting into uke and talk about how they "can be cured" with their dick by force "it's what they write, they must want a rapechad".why would you assume a woman who is an anti-fujo would mean "repressed" in the same way that men do? you actually think women who are anti-fujos and acknowledge there's a degree of bodily dissociation to exclusively being invested in, writing and drawing porn of only male characters "just want women to shut up and get cured by cock"? like… you can't be serious. this is some bad faith fujo logic right here, trying to equate feminist women to misogynistic rapist men and act like they mean anything the same when they say women are repressed by drawing a false equivalency. all while calling said women old cunts and tut-tutting hags might i add lol. a feminist woman saying women are "repressed" likely means they want women to be more knowledgeable and in tune with their own bodies. in most cases that means the opposite of settling down with men (something feminists are generally critical of). that's different than when men say "just submit to the natural pleasure of getting raped by my cock plz". like you guys can't be dumb enough not to understand this. actually i smell projection because a fujo further up in the thread actually said anti-fujos were being "oppressive" by being critical of rape kink kek, so it's funny you'd try to say feminist anti-fujos just want women to be raped by men. i hope all the disgusting things fujos have said about practically every other group of women is worth it for your ultimately worthless gay hentai obsession and failure to effectively mask it as some sort of feminist movement
No. 2142482
>>2141492>I read that and I got TRIGGERED because I thought you were gonna say->When have fujos called other women cringe??? Idk why the war with yumejoshi started tbhThanks for confirming that you're a newfag with zero critical thinking skills
If you're so mad that some people call fujos degenerates why did you lash out at one random person that AT NO POINT called you names or implied you're a "sexual deviant"? A poster that only shared a quote from actual female Japanese academics that actually know what Japanese fujos are like? You're just dismissing their whole work because you don't like what it implies, solely because in your paranoid little head you interpret it as "you're a disgusting degenerate and need to get dicked to be cured of it" (fucking insane). It doesn't matter how bullied you were by normies and moids for being into yaoi, it doesn't change the fact that those Japanese authors are onto something, like it or not. It is you and only you who is attributing a malicious and insulting meaning to their words. Like oh no, the situation of women worldwide in a patriarchal society has caused fujos (and other kinds of women that don't throw a hissy fit over it) to develop a preference for certain kinds of media!! Boo-hoo, big fucking deal. I like to rape men in my imagination and I'm not going to get offended if someone tells me it's due to social factors because I'm already aware it's true.
And like I said in my post (you probably didn't even read it all because you couldn't contain your rage so you just nit-picked the convenient parts), you are utterly incapable of distinguishing between those who obviously have a hateboner for fujos, the ones who call you names and shame you for liking things they don't like, whom we all agree are retards, and those who couldn't give two fucks about your taste but are curious as to why fujos exhibit certain patterns of behavior which are proven real again and again. I repeat, this speaks a severe lack of critical thinking.
Nobody that fits the second type of anon I mentioned wants to take yaoi away from you, contrary to what you think. In fact, while I may not be a fujoshi, there's a couple of yaoi ships I'm passionate about and sometimes I enjoy BL media such as visual novels and one-shot manga. It's just that my whole life and taste aren't dedicated exclusively to yaoi. Like I said before, I'm a degenerate, and wouldn't mind anyone on LC trying to analyze the reason, because I don't take it personally, I don't misinterpret it as an attack on my person, or as a judgement on my taste. Personally, I'm not against women enjoying drawings of cute moids fucking each other, if you're an adult this should be easy for you to comprehend.
All that is asked of you is that you stop acting like a retard whenever someone tries to discuss, from a neutral point of view, why some fujos act the way they do or why yaoi/BL is the way it is (might I add, several of the questions in the OP were made in bad faith, as you can clearly tell by looking at the OP pic - this thread was started by a butthurt fujo).
It's clear to me now that fujos like you know nothing about feminism, not even the basic theses, and so we don't have a common ground, which is why you and us cannot be on the same page, leading to you misinterpreting and assuming wrongly, then making wild accusations and starting dumbass arguments that lead nowhere. You would be right if you were in a scrote-infested place like 4chan, but this isn't 4chan, so stop acting like it is.
You retards say "fujos aren't a hivemind" like a mantra, but then proceed to act like everybody else is a hivemind. You cannot demand that others stop assuming you're all the same if you wouldn't do the same for us. That's not how it works.
>There was nothing particularly "intelligent" in it and we heard it 1000 times already for decades and it was indeed weaponized>misogynistic moids being misogynistic and telling women that they need to get raped is the reason a quote by Japanese feminist academics that was used to explain a bunch of examples of observable behavior in some fujoshi is not "intelligent" discussionI honestly don't know what to say anymore.
>>2141454This post was bait btw, it says
>should the /bl/ thread be deleted?>If you could ban women from writing yaoi>admit that the reason they like bl is because they have serious issues?How anyone could take these disingenuous as fuck questions seriously is beyond me.
>>2142194Yeah, when someone talks about them but isn't praising them, it's an attack against them, apparently. They're most definitely newfags that came here after being bullied off other websites for different reasons. That would explain why they're so sensitive to what they perceive as "criticism", have no idea what you're talking about when you mention incidents here on LC involving fujos (things that happened a year or two ago on this and other boards, for example), and why they fail to understand basic feminist thought, even going as far as thinking feminists want them to get raped, or pretending that yaoi is the most based feminist thing to consoom.
When they think you're attacking them for being fujos, they bring up different reasons, for example, some fujos assume farmers are like Xitter gendies and are attacking them for being homophobic or some other bullshit gendie reason, and other fujos, such as this one, think farmers have the same thought process as channer scrotes and shame fujos for being degenerate deviant women who don't want 3DPD moids to fuck them. It's all weird-ass accusations that can only be explained by them being newfags. But anyone who has been on this site for more than a few months and visited any thread other than the BL thread knows that nobody here thinks like that.
No. 2146308
>>2142482Ayart and
>>2137992 are not the same person. I know because I'm the latter and I didn't write the post you're replying to. Just wanted to clarify.
No. 2285083
File: 1733047927921.png (14.94 KB, 2425x137, lol antifujo.png)
Why is it so hard for antifujos to understand that women like yaoi because its just two hot guys, aka double the dick? it's so weird to me how they all project their insecurities onto fujos like this. Like duh no straight woman wants to see pussy and boobs, is that really that big of a revelation? i know women are expected to express their sexuality through pleasing the other instead of focusing on the man being the eye candy, but you genuinely cant be this fucking dense and retarded. I never see this level of scrutiny and overthinking for stuff like oily pirate novels or women buying lingerie for their scrotes. Considering that so much of female sexuality is centered around the women being a sex object for ugly men i dont understand how a genre thats just about men looking hot for the woman(viewer) causes this much seething.
No. 2285086
File: 1733048571063.jpg (524.95 KB, 1080x1978, 1733044039228.jpg)
>>2285083Tbh the anon in the picrel isnt wrong to speculate that since shes literally reacting to this shit
No. 2285108
File: 1733052289011.png (26.21 KB, 437x252, makesyouthink.png)
>>2285083I genuinely want to understand the psyche of antifujos because just a few days ago, I saw someone on xitter claiming that yaoi is more oppressive than lesbian porn kek. Of course, when I checked her account, she turned out to be a shonenshitter whose entire personality revolves around defending characters like Mikasa and Sakura. Not wanting anything to do with yaoi is fair enough, but at least don’t go around making claims that lesbian porn, which actively harms real women, is the same as BL involving 2D men.
No. 2285128
File: 1733054482527.jpg (21.34 KB, 473x465, image0.jpg)
>>2285108>liking lesbian porn as a male is not nearly as oppressive as yaoiplease tell me she got tons of shit for this
No. 2285144
File: 1733056391594.png (34.6 KB, 156x174, sad rio.png)
>>2285128Sadly she did not. Twitter antifujos live in an echo chamber where even the most outlandish claims are accepted as feminism.
No. 2290712
File: 1733386091480.png (265.5 KB, 2478x872, adsadsadsad.png)
>i dont understand why straight women want to see two men instead of a man and a woman
>also i am bisexual
>any woman that doesnt want to self insert has low self esteem and is misogynistic
>they should draw femdom BUT THE TYPE I LIKE ONLY ANYTHING ELSE IS MOIDY!!!1!
>also drawing the female character with a harem is bad actually because they obviously dont care about her they are only using her as a ''beard''
These people are so fucking entitled, they care more about a fictional woman than the real women they are constantly nagging about. I will never understand antifujos, i cannot imagine caring about something as harmless as straight women liking hot men. Their big problem seems to be that some women detach their sexuality from looking good for men, they want men to catter to them instead and look sexy for them and that's what antifujos find so offensive. Terminal case of being pickmes.
No. 2293095
>>2290712Honestly those just makes it seem that they're really desperate to see themselves in porn.
Sort of, "The man shouldn't be the sexual object, that's faggy. There should be a woman there so she can be me!"
No. 2293687
>>2293095No, the point is to make the man the sexual object by having him service a womans self-centered satisfaction.
>>2290712Mel getting cucked is not her having a harem, please. Bait used to be believable
No. 2293713
>>2293369>b-but fujos totally alsoThe viewer wanting to be the sexy chick in the focus of the shot is as blatant as it can get, versus the projection that everyone else must want to see themselves in porn too because they do, if they don't then it must be due to low self esteem!
Is it really low self esteem to
not want to see yourself in porn? Really think about what that sentence is saying kek.
>>2293687>No, the point is to make the man the sexual object by having him service a womans self-centered satisfaction.Nice thought but only the smallest of a minority puts that to earnest, hard to believe it considering everything else they're projecting onto others. If you think a woman
must have low self esteem to
not want to see a sexy woman in porn then I doubt it's actually about wanting to see sexy men.
No. 2293783
>>2293766>but you look like a weirdo to suggest that it's the straight woman consuming straight porn whose the anomaly here.I'm not suggesting that, I'm saying that a woman who thinks others are anomalies because they
don't self insert like she does to be a bit of a weirdo for thinking so.
Don't you?
Personally, I think people are able to like what they like simply because they like it, people are able to dislike things simply because they dislike it. No silly psychobabble nonsense or stupid politicizing under "they hate women!" necessary.
No. 2293801
>>2293783You don't have to self-insert, there's other options available inbetween self-insert OC and looking at gay porn
>No silly psychobabble nonsense or stupid politicizing under "they hate women!" necessaryYou realize we don't live in a bubble, right? Handwaving population behaviours as the result of some mystical woo instead of considering the reasons they happen is the same kind of uncritical thought that gave us troonism, religion, and all sorts of other cultural stagnations.
No. 2293825
>>2293801>>2293766So it'd be wrong
not to judge her and really otherthink into her fantasies and then generalize it into being about the majority?
Or is this just a one way street thing going on? That doesn't seem right.
No. 2293850
>>2293833Is that…not what I just said? And idk why anon used that pic for their point, ask them.
>>2293842Ok.
No. 2293871
>>2293833>>2293850I chose the picrel as an example of JayVik fans using Mel as their cuckinsert or a low effort get-out-of-jail-free card, which is a somewhat separate issue to the other stuff I was talking about. And I said the majority of JayVik fans prefer Viktor (and I'll admit this is biased by my own social media habits but I also don't think it's an insignificant portion), not that all of them did, but that's besides the point.
>>2293765>visually assaulted by uglies and fattiesits a glee reference anon kek
and to the rest of your post, what i should have said to make it clearer was that I too have struggled with self esteem issues, but part of getting over them was realising how women are groomed to accept dogshit f/m instead of f/m content that actually focuses on female enjoyment. Not in the way that serves men, as in literally focusing on a sexy woman, but ourselves. Consuming content that only focuses on two men is still centering men, even if its made by women for women. Same could be said about f/m mafia boss alpha dom romance slop made by women for women, it's still catering to manifestations of misogynistic thought. It's like guys getting meme'd into bizarro fetishes, the brain has the ability to latch onto whatever dopamine source it can find, and understanding why your brain latched onto something helps you understand more about yourself and the people around you. I've gotten into horrible fetish content before specifically because of my past low self esteem and weird manifestations of trauma, and I could have just kept feeding into it because "you like what you like", but as I've built my confidence up, and gone to therapy, and worked on deprioritizing male pleasure, I've realized how empowering it is to be in control of your brain/freewill and choose better.
No. 2293907
>>2293871>I've gotten into horrible fetish content before specifically because of my past low self esteem and weird manifestations of trauma, and I could have just kept feeding into it because "you like what you like", but as I've built my confidence up, and gone to therapy, and worked on deprioritizing male pleasure, I've realized how empowering it is to be in control of your brain/freewill and choose better.I feel sorry about that and congrats on getting better, but you do understand that because the reason why you liked something was because of trauma and low self esteem, that that doesn't mean that everyone else is the same way? You're saying it's about freewill, but what is exactly free will about having a right choice and a wrong choice in what you have in entertainment?
I understand that you mention that the people around you also had low self esteem, but rather than because of it being yaoi specifically, that it could have been because you are in a nerdish hobby and that others with similiar mental states will flock together?
No. 2293966
>>2293914>>2293907>You're saying it's about freewill, but what is exactly free will about having a right choice and a wrong choice in what you have in entertainment?It's more that all humans have the capacity for freewill, but everybody has some level of baggage that limits or dictates their actions. There's a spectrum of self-awareness, and a lack of it restricts ones expression of free will because you aren't fully aware of why you're doing the things you're doing. It's why choice feminism fails women who "choose" to do sex work, because even if those women feel as if they're unharmed by it, they're making those choices inside the context of everything surrounding them.
>the people around you also had low self esteem, but rather than because of it being yaoi specifically, that it could have been because you are in a nerdish hobby and that others with similiar mental states will flock together?I don't think yaoi is the only outlet women with low self esteem might choose, but it was the outlet of choice for some of the girls around me. It's like if I become an alcoholic vs someone doing crack, we're both running away from something, our brains just latched onto different things to self soothe. I also don't think this is exclusive to women with just nerdy interests as I believe women with normie interests are also subjected to their own strains of self esteem issues.
>do you think it's impossible for a woman to draw yaoi without having similiar self esteem/trauma that you did, is it always out of centering men and misogynyI think every woman is given from the get-go a subconcious lack of self-esteem because women aren't prioritized in society, men are. And for 99.9% of women, they're raised to prioritize the people around them over themselves, with an emphasis on being polite, or caring, or self-sacrificing, or appealing. Being caring and polite aren't inherently bad traits, you would want everybody to have them, the issue is that there's an imbalance in who is expected to have those traits and who is punished more severely for not having them. The reason why yaoi content is so popular in fandom spaces is the same reason why alphadom rape romance novel slop is so popular; the majority of women haven't deprogrammed themselves by decentering men, and so their brain has latched onto misogynistic content to get their dopamine fix which makes it feel good. Liberal women still prioritize the comfort of the people around them, often left-leaning men but also other women afraid of the discomfort self-questioning brings. Which is why there's so many handmaidens and radical feminism is vilified, because even considering it means rocking the boat. And if you rock the boat, as a woman, you're unpleasant.
>does this ring true vice versa, are the male writers of arcane wrong for writing lesbians?This is a good question and I honestly haven't thought about it as much to give you a well thought out answer. But my initial inclination is that no, it isn't, as long as lesbian content isn't the bulk of everything they make creatively. I don't have an issue with women who happen to like an m/m ship here or there if it's well written, because the focus is on whatever story is being told. The issue with fujoshi is that it's such a heavy focus, it says something about the person, just like a dude super into yuri is suspect too. Especially if it's X-rated content.
No. 2293984
File: 1733554223734.jpeg (34.94 KB, 680x510, 656.jpeg)
what does it say about me if I enjoy both fujo and yumejo content Dr. Nonna? I like threesome scenarios where my husbandos fuck me while making out with eachother at the same time.
No. 2293992
>>2293966So you believe that since you have this trauma, that 99% of other women grew up the same way you did and thus only like yaoi because of the reasons you fell into it?
Do you think it's completely impossible to be "deprogramed" like you were and still like that content?
Don't you think this is a bit narrowminded?
No. 2294015
>>2293992No, I've never liked yaoi. I'm not saying that 99% of women have the exact same trauma as me, I'm saying that all women are impacted by the world we live in and because of the biases against women it manifests in many different ways but is ultimately there regardless. It's possible to recondition yourself because of neuroplasticity, and you can only do it effectively if you're aware of and understand what's influencing you. I guess it's narrowminded if you think everybody's opinion has as much merit/truth as the next purely on the basis of us all being human, but that's exactly why I don't. Most people aren't self aware, or they're partially self aware but trapped half way because of fear/ego/complacency
>>2293993right, because the non-west is notorious for womens rights and not being sexist
>>2293981pfffffffbbbbbbbbbtttttttttt
(integrate) No. 2294068
>>2294059Anon is also still fantasizing about having sex with men, so how exactly is it decenterimg men if men are still a part of her fantasies when with bl it doesnt matter how its done, it doesnt count?
Is it focused in on only the woman and her getting off (on dick)? If so, what really is the difference between a solo female pin up?
Especially when she admits to sperging out when fictional women get with her husbando.
No. 2294072
File: 1733562408142.png (265.65 KB, 440x420, twittertard.png)
>>2294059I’ve been wondering about this too. I remember seeing this phrase used in radfem circles when discussing real-world issues, and in that context, I completely agree with it. However, this year I have noticed antifujos—many of whom are straight shippers or consume highly misogynistic OI manga—accusing fujos of being male-centered. It’s honestly bizarre. I suspect that the rise in radfeminism’s popularity on TikTok has contributed to this.
No. 2294092
>>2294067>>2294070You can curate your experience of a fandom if you're willing to invest some work. Find some people within the fanbase who share your specific taste and join a group chat or discord with them. The fandoms I'm in are full of retardation, but I'm exposed to very little of it because I only engage with the fandoms through friends who don't post the things that annoy me.
The older I get, the more I find fandoms as a concept to be a little overrated. Searching for fanwork I like and making a few friends are really the only purposes fandoms serve for me. With the right filters, I can usually cruise through Ao3, Tumblr, etc. without seeing things I dislike. The whole "so-and-so is shoving [x] in my face" argument has really broken down as social media feeds have gotten increasingly customizable over the years.
No. 2294095
>>2294059your whole sexuality revolves around males, you literally fantasize about a world where women don't exist because we're too inferior to be loved by some feminine fag. It makes my skin crawl where women claim that these media devoid of female characters where males are free to rape each other as they please is a "feminist utopia". It's the ultimate display of self hatred.
Men who are into yuri actually fantasize about fucking these women themselves and see them as their personal whores. Fujos put fags on a pedestal, hate their bodies and think anime boys are too good and precious to be forced into eating her out.
They are bottom feeders, it's the most submissive form of female sexuality. Like fags could be fucking on a couch and then after they are done the meek fujo would just lick the cum and shit off the cushions.
No. 2294101
File: 1733564048188.jpg (76.46 KB, 1125x737, GLchqTbXgAAsVcj.jpg)
It really speaks to how much more cerebral and self-aware women are than moids that we're sitting around arguing about the degree to which yaoi "centers men" despite being made by and for women. I'm not interested in taking a side on that particular debate, I just think it's interesting that we hold ourselves to such high moral standards even when it comes to porn, meanwhile moids will do the most depraved shit on Earth and shrug it off. They're not having arguments about whether they're undermining their own interests as a group by consuming media that "centers" women (although the degree to which the slop they enjoy centers women is debatable).
I'm not suggesting we should have zero standards the way moids do, because that's part of how moids end up being a bunch of toaster-fuckers. However, I think we should probably be a little more lenient with each other, because all of this tut-tutting over whose taste is more "feminist" strikes me as crab-bucketing. It just seems like a waste of energy to denigrate each other all day when we're already a million times more conscientious about the ethics of porn consumption than our moid counterparts.
No. 2294102
>>2294095Lmao this sounds legimately shizophrenic.
>because we're too inferior to be loved by some feminine fagSounda like you still need to decentralize the baggage you have over being loved by a man.
No. 2294162
File: 1733571447664.gif (25.23 KB, 360x360, 1643932209778.gif)
>>2294095>your whole sexuality revolves around malesYes anon thats what being straight is all about, its about only liking men. Some of you sound like aliens that just arrived to earth yesterday.
No. 2294220
>>2294106>smaller men are women>ukes are womenthey espouse tranny retoric like this and then say
fujos are the ones who are likely to troon out??
No. 2294356
>>2294220>>2294296>>2294234It isn't saying that a submissive man literally objectively equals a woman, it's pointing out the way that sexist thought manifests in fujos and the content they consume. And no, it isn't necessarily a concrete conscious thought, it's a reflection of societal messaging that's been built up over time
>>2294082The "centering" is about the way men are raised to be selfish, and women aren't. This isn't to say all men and women are equally split on this trait in a blatantly obvious literal way, but it's part of their social conditioning. Men prioritize themselves inside their own fantasies and do so to a selfish degree that doesn't care about the pleasure of the women involved, if it happens it happens but it isn't their goal. M/M cannot decenter men because the whole point is it's two men getting off, and even if you a woman are thinking about it you're doing it passively from the mental cuckchair or you're projecting onto one or both of the men. Men cry and bitch and scream about being forced to identify with a woman MC because they've been pampered by society to always get their way, whereas women are forced to identify with men in some way because they are the default in media. When women are the protagonists its either in specialized genres exclusive to women, or marked as notable because it will inevitably be brought up by people bitching and complaining about it. In m/f that isn't dogshit, the goal of the fantasy is fulfilling female desires first and foremost, regardless of if the guy gets equal pleasure or not. It may happen but it isn't the goal.
>>2294067Ultimately this is what my frustration was too and why I posted in the fujocoomer thread in the first place. I do try to curate what I see online but these websites block features suck ass and its like trying to combat a zombie horde, its never ending. I end up just not bothering interacting with certain fandoms because I know it's pointless, but it sucks because I also want to look at fanart and see people discussing the show. I guess it's ultimately good since it forces me to grow up and get a real life kek
No. 2294359
>>2294279Its not? I mean, how much mpreg have you read if you're going as far as to say this? This really says more about your algorithms tbh, most have no issue with not seeing it because it's pretty niche.
Even with only accounting omegaverse, only a small percent mention any sort of pregnancy at all and just time skip past all of it, most are about heats and pheromones which I don't think women are known to have.
What exactly are you looking at that you see it everywhere?
No. 2294367
File: 1733589331840.png (900.24 KB, 860x1026, googtran.png)
>>2294356Men cry and bitch when there are male characters in their shows, just having female characters isn't going to decenter men, it's making them the center viewer in your audience because they are sexually attracted to women, they don't stop being sexually attracted when they see a female character in pleasure, frankly that sounds ridiculous.
You can excuse it with "it's different because it's about fulfilling the woman's desires", but how exactly would this look like and how exactly is it decentering men?
As far as m/m and whether it decenters men, men basically speak for themselves.
No. 2294381
>>2294356>Men prioritize themselves inside their own fantasies and do so to a selfish degree that doesn't care about the pleasure of the women involved, if it happens it happens but it isn't their goal. M/M cannot decenter men because the whole point is it's two men getting offMen despise seeing themselves be gay or vulnerable, they see it as an insult at best. Men do prioritize themselves and their own pleasure, but also their
pride. when it comes to even the simple depiction of a man crying, many see it as being told "you are a bitch faggot." Life is a competition for them and romance is also a competition.
It doesn't matter if something shows a man being jerked off if it's by another man because they see it as them losing. A man is perfectly fine even if it's just giving a woman pleasure because he "won her."
He is the one that gave her pleasure, the rest he can just use his imagination.
Honestly, it sounds like you convoluted yourself into a ridiculous belief that men are happy seeing their self insert getting rammed in the ass.
No. 2294432
>>2294381I should probably add, I don't actually care about what men think when it comes to m/f. I think a big point of dentralizing men is also destroying the idea that their opinions and gaze hold any merit to female entertainment, and also I just really hate their opinions on shoujo with the "women moments and rapechads" extensively.
But, if you're insisting on the male gaze being important on the entertainment a woman chooses and insist on using it to moralizing how m/f is better than m/m, then that's my two thoughts on it.
No. 2294523
>>2294381>>2294432>men are happy seeing their self insert getting rammed in the ass.>if you're insisting on the male gaze being important on the entertainment a woman chooses This is quite literally the opposite of what I mean, I could not care less about how men feel about the media I consume. I brought up the points about how men react to media as an example of the differences in how we're socialized and what being raised with a self-centered mentality looks like.
>>2294508No one is saying that. There's ways to enjoy m/f that focus on giving women the most benefit. "Straight women don't like m/f because they're straight and just want to see dudes" implies you need to be same sex attracted in some way to enjoy m/f, c'mon now
No. 2294550
>>2294523>"Straight women don't like m/f because they're straight and just want to see dudes"I never said or even implied this. Me and the anon I replied to were responding to an anon who said
>your whole sexuality revolves around malesas if she'd never heard of the concept of being attracted to a single sex before.
No doy someone's sexuality "revolves" around the sex they're attracted to. Now, whether you prefer to engage with m/m or m/f as a straight woman is more about how you personally engage with fiction, and whether you take a more voyeuristic approach when it comes to reading romance. For some women, the sexes of the characters is entirely irrelevant. All of this boils down to how you prefer to interact with fiction.
No. 2294570
File: 1733595359065.jpg (172.35 KB, 1064x1596, MV5BN2Q2NzlhZjYtMjdjYi00ZGU2LW…)
>>2294537Isn't cgdct a male genre? Men look at just women all the time, to the point that they get mad if a series introduces a male character.
To be male minded about this is to disregard the other sex's pov completely, not to moralfag into how they should add a male or else the women are winning.
No. 2294603
File: 1733596401636.png (724.6 KB, 1120x1600, IMG_2272.png)
>>2294095>Men who are into yuri actually fantasize about fucking these women themselves and see them as their personal whoresYour post is retarded in general but this isn’t even true for most guys into yuri, most of them are obsessed with the purity aspect because they believe only love between two girls can be pure.
No. 2294616
File: 1733596999429.jpg (30.84 KB, 256x275, 4mywousz8c811.jpg)
>>2294583Not completely related but I remember a show I watched that got people mad because the mc had a melt down and ugly cried, they got really mad because they felt like the creator was insulting them personally.
No. 2294638
>>2294576I'm not talking about everyman protagonists, I'm just talking about protagonists in general and their function in a story. Characters that are written as not wholly good or relatable aren't different in that function, and whether or not they're criticized by the audience requires some level of self awareness. Otherwise you get the rick and morty or bojack horseman bros that think rick and bojack are always in the right, so to them that IS an everyman protagonist. I also prefer engaging characters, the point I'm trying to make is that seeing more female protags as the main beneficiary in their relationships is ultimately better for a female romance viewerbase, because they're also female. and theres such a severe lack of romance content that doesn't cater to women still influenced by sexist thinking in some way, so it makes sense why fujos find mainstream m/f unappealing, I just think that m/m is doing a disservice to themselves. I don't think it's odd to engage with a variety of content, and like I said I don't think it's weird to like an m/m ship here or there if it's well written, because it's just a good story. It's when that's the sole focus of content a woman is consuming that it becomes a question of "why", which I know theres multiple reasons why, but it's the same thing as dudes who are super into yuri, or anyone else with a specific fixation on certain kinds of content. I'm aware of the reasons behind my own media preferences too, I'm not saying this because I think it's exclusive to fujos.
No. 2294692
File: 1733600514395.jpg (Spoiler Image,229.43 KB, 720x1280, wp4920556.jpg)
So, is the argument that yaoi is ''centering men'' because it focuses on the pleasure of the moids? because i got bad news for you but moid hentais focuses on the pleasure of the animu grill, ahegao is super popular with men and its all about women displaying cartoonish levels of pleasure. There is no moid hentai where the guy ahegaos instead, because men dont want to see that shit cus its gay.
No. 2294712
>>2294700doesnt it make you feel bad to see a woman being abused? regardless if its fake, its so depressing to see. like
>>2294703 said, you see/hear about it enough irl, and i often think of how real women have suffered even if what im watching is fictional
No. 2294719
>is the argument that yaoi is ''centering men'' because it focuses on the pleasure of the moids? No, that isn't the argument. No, hentai ahegao isn't what I mean by prioritizing the woman's pleasure. No, hentai ahegao does not decenter men because it's made by them for them, and inb4 the 'yaoi is made by women for women' cope, as I said before the difference is that men are raised to be self-centered and women aren't, and content made by women for women whether it's m/f or m/m or even f/f can still center men because society centers men. It isn't about a literal visual focal point on either a man or woman
>>2294678I've said multiple times that the majority of m/f has the same issues as m/m. I'm in this thread because a fujo went into the fujocoomer thread and got butthurt, and this thread is for discussing fujo vs antifujo shit anyways so it isn't a fujo exclusive clubhouse, this is literally what the content of the thread is supposed to be
No. 2294721
>>2294712Like seriously, 8/10 times in TV shows, movies and games the go-to plot point to give a female character depth is to make her a rape
victim. I don't need to see that shit any more. I refuse to support any media that shows women being sexually abused, I'm fed up. Sick and fucking tired.
No. 2294752
File: 1733602446124.jpg (60.12 KB, 1280x720, 2f7ba7cb0c3891608c8be0f12f1d1b…)
>>2294692>There is no moid hentai where the guy ahegaos instead sakusei byoutou
No. 2294767
>>2294722>>2294743This is literally true for every person heavily into otaku culture though
>waifufag men hate other waifus in a harem because 'their girl should win and she's getting in the way'>yurifag men hate male characters existing because 'they're getting in the way of the purest form of love' >yumes hate female love interests because 'he's mine you skank!' >fujos hate female love interests because 'he belongs with guy B you bitch!' I don't get why people only apply this to fujos when it literally applies to every type of otaku.
No. 2294771
File: 1733602993099.jpg (72.01 KB, 750x1000, suffering.jpg)
>>2294768I'm a fujo but I like to watch suffering regardless of gender.
No. 2294777
>>2294767Because you all are the most known for doing so and for good reason lol. No one has more of a
victim complex and are so heavily delusional/involved in their shipping than a fujo. The current drama in the MHA fandom shows that.
No. 2294781
>>2294743Idk, from my own personal experience from smaller fujo fandoms, they tend to like the female characters too and tend to be more lenient if anything.
Even buying acrylic stands of female characters to take them out for tea, painting their nails in their color schemes and celebrating their birthdays.
But, it is more niche and the female characters are quite cute so maybe it's a unique case.
No. 2294795
>>2294777I saw more moids fighting over whether Deku is a cuck or not, but whatever helps you sleep better.
>>2294778True.
No. 2294802
>>2294777Yumes and husbandofags are definitely more prone to having
victim complexes though, as they shit and piss themselves when everyone doesn't suck their asses and validate their shit ships and self-inserts. Just look on lolcow and how they make shit up just to appear like
victims.
>>2294752That's hardly an ahegao.
>>2294749But when yumes do it it's fine because they're incredibly narcissistic and their fav ship is the best ever and the one that should be canon, while everything else is trash. But remember it's the fujos who do it!!
No. 2294861
>>2294852>Fujos are literally shitting, crying, and throwing up about bakudeku and jayvik ships not being canonI haven't seen a single fujo getting upset over bakudeku and I don't know what jayvik is
You know what I do see a lot of though? Yumes infighting over their 'NO SHARING' autism.
>Never have I been in a fandom where fujo shit wasn't the most prevalent/talked about point of a seriesFujos will always be the majority of female fans in female otaku spaces whether you like it or not, sounds like you're just mad because you're not used to being in the minority.
No. 2294892
>>2294861Are you literally living under a rock or being purposely obtuse?
>you're just madAnd?
>>2294878Fandom wasn't created because of slash, but nice revisionist history lesson.
No. 2294936
File: 1733607233338.jpg (62.33 KB, 750x500, Tumblr_l_674912221837224.jpg)
>>2294703Honestly, this, even in a non-porn context. I like enemies-to-lovers and other similarly "
toxic" tropes, and I literally do not want to watch a woman be subjected to that kek. When it's only moids involved, the ick factor is gone for me.
No. 2294953
>>2294936same, enemies to lovers in het shit is always boring bad boy edgelord and kawiwi uwu good girl who has to ''fix him'', like katara/zuko. In yaoi its normally more interesting, like two rivals in shonenshit or genuinely
abusive and
toxic like kyman.
No. 2294981
>>2294722Like other anons have said, this is not unique to fujos, it's just a shipping thing in general. This is a bit of a cringe example, but back when Steven Universe was big, a lot of Lapis/Peridot shippers hated Amethyst, and a lot of Amethyst/Peridot shippers hated Lapis. Fujos are pretty much the only people who've
stopped berating characters for being "in the way," because fujos (western ones, least) are actually responsive to criticism. Seme/uke stereotypes were too "
problematic," so now they're super diluted and everybody switches (a change I'm honestly fine with as a fujo). Instead of being demonized, "in the way" characters are now either shipped with another female character or written as supportive faghag matchmaker. Let's not even get into how neurotic western fujos have made themselves over the "fetishizing gay men" allegation. These people are trying so goddamn hard to be PC and appease people because that's what women have been socialized to do. And these criticisms of insufficient political correctness are coming almost entirely from women. All this time they've wasted tearing other women down for meaningless nerd shit they could have used for literally anything else more productive.
No. 2294995
>>2294981The pseudowomen/shota accusations are also probably why old man yaoi and Korean steroid abuse became the fashion too.
Didn't really matter though since they just pretend it's still 2003.
No. 2295078
File: 1733609793433.jpeg (41.57 KB, 736x1308, image0.jpeg)
Is stuck in the wall rape a yay or nay though
No. 2295139
>>2295132They pretty obviously have, it’s just there for the sake of the meme
The other version of the meme had ‘Trey and Matt self insert into it’ for creek anyway
No. 2295140
>>2295094I don't know, I guess you'd have to be neurotypical to understand. I'll do my best to explain: when you're watching coom that depicts the kind of sexual activity you can physically partake in (e.g. watching ponos in vagoo as a straight moid), it's predominantly what autists would call "self insertion". Similarly, standard m/m is not cuckshit if you're a gay moid, because (if you were to deconstruct the mechanics of that like an autist), you're likely inserting as a participant on some level. Most normal coom falls into that category, it's just how average people do it.
…Wait a second, weren't you all insisting that fujoshit is voyeur cuckshit as opposed to self insertion? Why do you need me to prove this to you? Wew.
No. 2295155
>>2295064the
practice of fandom doesnt predate trekkies
No. 2295206
>>2295196Still not as gay as whatever Mika and Yuu had goin’ on
Plus Cartman only achieved ball suckage in imagination land
No. 2295209
>>2295183This reminds me of an argument I had with a moid long ago that could not understand how somebody can watch romance without self inserting and would called it cuckshit too, kek. Iirc he was anal about there being drama in the relationship since it was ntr'ing him of his waifu, despite it clearly just run of the mill story arc.
People think everything is cucking nowadays, they do not understand concepts like voyeurism.
No. 2295243
>>2295209They also can't conceive of anything existing outside of self insertion or cuckshit, it's either one or the other, there is no possible third perspective in their worldview. Just like this anon
>>2295140 who thinks saying BL isn't cuckshit must mean it's automatically self insertion. Very black and white thinking.
No. 2295320
File: 1733614084078.png (313.87 KB, 717x436, 1000036015.png)
>>2295255I'm not trying to own you, I'm just plainly stating that you're so far gone you can't even conceptualize how normies function. No average porn consumer of an average porn narrative processes it like a shipper or a peeping tom. This is why normie moids think your shipping autism is just being a cuck, it's not because
they are the aberration.
>>2295262Yeah, unlike fujos and shippers whom normies notoriously perceive as normal and sane. You guys sure you wanna keep replying?
No. 2295362
>>2295336Yeah, why do fujos bring up moids cooming to lesbian taperape whenever they explain the appeal of gayslop? I agree, pathetic.
>>2295345>fandomI'm talking about what normal people think, not what autists think about slightly different autists.
No. 2295385
>>2295345You have to understand, it's not considered playing with dolls but an aspect of reality, politics, and your own morality.
You can't just watch a romance because you like seeing relationships getting together, it has to be on an aspect of you or else you're being a cuckold.
It seems fucked, but that's what people who do not go outside think is normal.
No. 2295404
>>2295395Isn't that also "watching the romance" or whatever?
>>2295394That's not me, schizochan
No. 2295451
File: 1733618249460.jpg (45.16 KB, 800x450, C-658VsXoAo3ovC.jpg)
Man this thread is just full of autists trying to convince other autists when they're normies when clearly no one who gives a shit about any of this is even remotely close to being a normie. I think everyone here just needs to accept that they're autistic and move on.
No. 2295479
File: 1733619580792.jpg (278.18 KB, 1244x1665, F5R3ZezaYAIlMJH.jpg)
>>2295458This thread is an autistic singularity.
No. 2295494
>>2295471you're right but you need to leave us yumes alone because alot of yumes don't want this either and its forced on us due to a vocal minority of yume pickmes and authors who make content for ''women'' yet still cater to the male gaze.
Honestly i am both a yume and a fujo and i have taken a break from reading fujo content for like almost 6 months and yesterday was my first yaoi story in a long time and i felt so fucking refreshed anon like i felt my thirst quenched after a long time. I really wanted to take a longer break from fujo content and hopefully stop reading it altogether but i can't when the bitches i yume content look like fucking FRANKENSTAIN BIMBOS with no soul or personality. I am so fucking tired of looking at their ginarmous hentai milf tits that are bigger than their head i can't fucking take reading that shit anymore.
Sometimes there is good yume content like 黒猫クロくんの恩返しは不器用で不埒 for example, but majority of the time it just looks like regular seinen hentai that you can't even tell it's josei.
Im sorry anti-fujo anons…but i will start reading yaoi again. Can't believe i let public opinions force me to stop reading it in the first place, i guess ive always been someone sensitive to others opinions.
No. 2295525
>>2295414It’s because the anti fujo chick was getting mad about guys getting raped and fujos being violent or whatever.
Some people also consider ‘stuck in the wall rape’ to be a moid only fetish but I disagree with that.
No. 2295530
>>2295516If you stretch hard you can work this sort of thing into everything.
>Religon is the backbone, it affects your upbringing which effects your brain which affects politics, relationship and morality.>Every show in existence has a religious aspect in it because it has the concepts of life and death.So, you shouldn't be mad when people tell you you're wrong for saying that religon shouldn't be rubbed in your face.
>Food affects the chemicals in your gut which affects your brain, which affects your politics, morality, and relationships so you shouldn't be mad when people focus in on veganism.The answer still amounts to "who the fuck cares, it's just food/I don't want to hear about why Jesus doesnt want me to masturbate"
No. 2295541
>>2295536Straight men sure but aside from James Somerton and Goatjesus never seen a gay man who gives a shit about women reading yaoi, that’s 100% fakeboi zone.
>>2295537No shit, doesn’t really refute my point that some moids have a fujo fetish.
No. 2295547
File: 1733622549398.jpg (13.66 KB, 475x74, 1733345326339.jpg)
>>2295531Even 4chan scrotes don't give a shit about yaoi. They used to have a recurring fujo general right on /a/. But sure, if it lets Miss Fujo Becky feel better about her porn addiction she can LARP as a based feminist by thinking it owns da scrotes.
No. 2295590
File: 1733623768096.jpg (585.52 KB, 1170x871, dotsuco.jpg)
>>2295471>dotsucoNona, that artist is primarily a fujo kek… though she does some het hentai on the side. Just look at this list and you’ll see most of her released work is yaoi
https://bato.to/search?word=dotsucoHowever, she does hypersexualize women quite a bit if you scroll down her twitter media
https://x.com/jacora_ No. 2295638
>>2295590She probably doesn't read much yume stuff so she gave what she had tbf.
It's not particularly wrong though, unless you're arguing to fish for more big titty stuff.
No. 2295748
>>2295739FAGGOT shota is banned here and anon's can't even post swf shota meanwhile you yuripedos can. Im so tired of your ''wahh give me pity''
victim posts. I don't even like shota btw and most fujos don't.
No. 2295767
>>2295748Shota may be banned but plenty of you are shotafags who claim the poll that determined whether to allow shota or not was 50/50. You seem to forget you all went mask off during the bunker threads and took advantage of the fact that the site was down and we were at a lawless cuckboard to sperg about how much you loved little boys.
>You yuripedosI'm a straight woman who doesn't like yuri and I straight up said lolicon is also pedophilia. You cannot be this retarded, the sodomite porn is rotting your brain like a regular scrote
No. 2295832
File: 1733634267974.jpeg (324.13 KB, 1839x1934, IMG_5429.jpeg)
>>2295751all of those are drawings of men. what are you talking about
>>2295479I love this artist
No. 2295874
File: 1733635911070.jpg (454.02 KB, 1894x2246, GAwu2S0aIAE913S.jpg)
>>2295832Me too anon ugh. She's so good at folds in clothing
No. 2296398
>>2295739>>2296394Yeah it's not all lesbians, it's a specific name for yuripedo because she spams a lot. Yuripedo was just the name that stuck.
I guess there can be a yaoipedo out there, but shota gets banned and theres no equivalent to the panty shot flying gay loli show so it doesn't really matter.
No. 2296402
File: 1733671993210.webp (45.55 KB, 560x420, p76musru-e1729237623763.webp)
>>2295494>google 黒猫クロくんの恩返しは不器用で不埒>pic rel shows upi hope you dont mean this is good yume content
No. 2296404
>>2295531men dont even know what fujos are, most of the time they think fujos are yumes or fujo just means ''
femcel''. I had to explain to several scrotes the difference between yumes, fujos and female coomer pickmes because they think they are all the same
No. 2296413
File: 1733672504987.jpg (521.53 KB, 1920x2198, triggered autists.jpg)
>>2295547>she doesnt know about the mass seething Free and YOI caused on /a/ newfag
No. 2296415
File: 1733672623519.jpg (302.78 KB, 1200x1692, 942104807b9d6ebe7c63b93cb99623…)
>>2296404Anime fandom got really retarded in the last 10 years. Can't even memorise basic Japanese terms, let alone be bothered to learn Japanese.
No. 2296499
File: 1733675934493.jpg (113.17 KB, 736x736, 1000036022.jpg)
>>2296413Literally the only real utility of yaoi slop. However, we need to devise new ways to farm moid tears. After 10 years, fujofeces no longer faze them.
If you were to design a joseimuke piece for maximum moid analpocalypse, what would it be? How can we improve Free? Pic unrelated.
No. 2296651
>>2295877>>2296394I've seen way more anons defending shota than mocking it, that thread on /m/ must get buried under all your +30 yaoi threads where you post shit like
>>2295832 which is literal shotacon. I don't see any of you calling the south park fags yaoipedos even though the characters are clearly drawn as 12 year olds.
>inb4 "they're not naked though!!!!!"I don't care, yaoi is sexual and you're getting off to it.
You're pedos too.
No. 2296677
>>2296651It a name given by someone, not even a fujo probably, and the rest of the site went along with it.
You can be pissed about it and try to get people to call out a "yaoipedo", but it's not fujos fault if the site doesn't give a shit about your grievances.
No. 2296758
File: 1733681516635.png (3.38 MB, 1786x4419, 1485914631073.png)
>>2296413The YOI meltdowns were less widespread but even funnier imo
No. 2296800
File: 1733682163265.gif (39.91 KB, 200x113, 200w.gif)
>>2296651>literal canon shotaconTake it up with the moids who make the show muchacha
No. 2296867
File: 1733683153313.jpg (65.37 KB, 736x981, ea406c8bfd51646086963a0d9532a2…)
Hot take: the moralfagging is just a false pretext anti-fujos use to scold fujos. The thing they're actually mad about is the popularity of slash and yaoi in female nerd spaces online. They're bitter that the shit they like doesn't have the same amount of content or community around it, so they lash out at fujos. And the more time they waste squawking at us, the less time they spend making fanart and fanfic, further perpetuating the problem. That's why they feel like whenever they see yaoi art, their response is to complain that it's being rubbed in their face. I imagine if you're jealous of the fun other people are having, seeing any glimpse of it feels like it's being "rubbed in your face." Kek.
No. 2296936
File: 1733683822163.jpg (67.22 KB, 800x600, __nakai_hisao_and_setou_kenji_…)
>>2296694Imagine if it was still animated by KyoAni. The butthurt would give birth to an AnimeGate.
>>2296574>>2296499Adapt Katawa Shoujo, deluding the audience that you're doing an 'all route' mishmash at first, but go with the gay end. And add an extended epilogue of Kenji and Hisao
recovering in hospital after the fall, bonding and indulging in steamy action on the hospital bed. No. 2297018
>>2297004Those people are retarded. I don't think there's anything wrong with straight women enjoying yaoi
or het stuff with big booba protags. It's just stupid manga, who cares
No. 2297139
>>2296499>If you were to design a joseimuke piece for maximum moid analpocalypse, what would it be? How can we improve Free?It would have to appeal to more "normal" men, like shonentards, on paper but the story and presentation would have to be extra gay. Not necessarily canon gay but it should be vague enough to be interpreted as such by men who have no clue about anything related to BL or fanservice for women, you know, the type of men who are like "ew what's that gay shit?!" if a cool and strong male character has normal emotions for once. Male otaku know too much about joseimuke and BL to fall into this kid of trap so they wouldn't even get that mad, there has to be an element of surprise which is the reason why Free!! made men seethe so hard back in the days so it shouldn't be a sports anime. Try to not make it too much like Gintama or Golden Kamuy, they're way more popular with women than men so it would be easy to predict the type of audience we're trying to attract. And what they have in common is that the main characters are handsome young adult men with an obvious tragic backstory and their heroines are much younger teenage girls that they treat like their daughters/little sisters and women love that. Make the main characters older or younger, late 20s is to obviously appealing for women. However you have to find the right balance because some straight men have a weird version of husbandos if they're huge mary sue but in a cool or fun way and you don't want that to happen to your manga/anime.
Ideally there should be no female characters whatsoever but if they exist they should be treated the same way or worse than in JJK with Nobara being put aside for half of the manga despite being branded as the mandatory heroine. It's shonenshit but it's the first time I've ever since straight men who aren't hardcore otaku talking about how some characters are way too gay for each other and asking fujoshi to forgive them when the second season started.
tldr; a manga or anime that would make men seethe to oblivion doesn't have to be gay but it has to be perceived as such by insecure or autistic straight men, and it has to be unexpected, so it should avoid certains trends and genres that are currently associated with yumejoshi, fujoshi and joseimuke in general. The genre, plot and characters should be as stereotypically masculine as possible only at first glance but without having female characters and with the right balance of appeal for men and what would disgust them.
No. 2297158
>>2297140I love when you all try to make an own, but can't read. I said fairly popular, not most popular. And I do blacklist, but somehow that shit consistently gets through regardless.
>>2297084Fujos are so well known for their retarded ship wars and general misogyny that it overwhelms the typical moid and het arguments by far.
No. 2297191
>>2297153Make sure to press the "not interested" button. I do this for a series I'm into so I don't have to see patreon hentai of the female characters, but I like the pictures of the female characters that are cute.
Now, I usually just get the latter.
No. 2297194
>>2297184>only for the female characters to say they already have a boyfriendBonus if they aren't virgins anymore. It makes men seethe so hard.
>they're not ready for a relationshipToo vague, the male audience would just see this as an obstacle the MC will have to overcome, unless it ends in a way that's not ambiguous at all, like that particular character dating the MC's best friend or rival and not just some random guy.
>have male fanserviceIf we're talking about harem manga and anime, we need radical things like the group of main characters going to an onsen and you'd expect the girls to be naked in the water doing stupid shit for the male audience like groping each other or comparing boob sizes. Instead you should never, ever show them at all except in their kimono hanging out after the bath, and only show the naked guys bathing and saying stupid fanservicey things to each other. You have to play with the audience's expectations.
No. 2297212
>>2297194>Too vague, the male audience would just see this as an obstacle the MC will have to overcomeTrue, I was thinking of a way to try and still keep it having a straight romance since it'd be a bit more difficult.
>you should never, ever show them at all except in their kimono hanging out after the bath, and only show the naked guys bathing and saying stupid fanservicey things to each other. You have to play with the audience's expectations.Smart.
Something else that I've seen piss men off to hell and back, the mc rejecting a confession or date/not taking advantage of a woman.
No. 2297221
>>2297004Oh no not my precious anime girl with big boobs! How dare you fujos!!
>>2297037Have you considered simply getting over it? If you and your antifujo besties are soo popular, then why do you keep seething at fujos? You already said you block them on sight, but you're still mad even thinking about them and their content being enjoyed by other people. Sounds like a you problem.
>>2297214Too bad people aren't forced to cater to you on the internet. Either you shut up and block, or keep seething. It's that easy!
>>2297216Yeah, because pickmes like youself want less sexualized men and also shit on women for enjoying said men however they want. It's the definition of a pickme because you're malding at women for the grave sin of sexualizing two men fucking for reasons that are in line with moid thinking.
No. 2297231
>>2297226Not everyone who disagrees with you is the same anon.
>>2297018 is a post I wrote. I think this kind or scrutiny of women's inane taste is retarded regardless of which direction it's going in.
No. 2297237
File: 1733690128552.jpg (399.64 KB, 1441x1316, pq5ht8ikklib1.jpg)
Sorry girls, but yuri will always stay top-tier.(off-topic)
No. 2297243
>>2297221>Have you considered simply getting over it? No. As long as one fujo breathes, I'm a hater.
>Too bad people aren't forced to cater to you on the internet.Didn't ask them to.
>Either you shut up No.
>and block, I do.
>or keep seething.I'll gladly do both.
>>2297227>You seriously think that fujos are more misogynistic than moids. I think you both share the same form of women hating tendencies, yes.
>Have fun writing garbage about marrying your ugly husbando and being his barefoot pregnant housewife for all the other handmaids who enjoy that shit.I will, thanks.
No. 2297248
>>1978406yaoi is disgusting and so are fujos. i dont know why it has taken over this site to the degree it has. the fakeboi thread was so bad for awhile because they had to make everything about fujos.
really weird obsession
No. 2297253
>>2297243People like you see women enjoying their pretty anime boy sex, feel some unknown tard rage or jealousy over other people having fun, and then start yelling "b-but what about my tradthot fantasy?? I want attention for my trad fantasy (even if the entire world caters to you)!! S-stop having fun!! My trad fantasy!!" and then stomp their feet and piss themselves thinking they're oppressed. You're a lot like moids.
>>2297248>taken over this siteAre you having you allucinations again anon? Did you take your meds? Let's get you to bed.
No. 2297296
>>2297246Because I genuinely don't give a shit about your pseudo feminist critic when we're on a website where various women talk shit and hate each other all the time lol.
>>2297266Anon what the fuck are you talking about? Did you even respond to the right person? My post has nothing to do with what you're saying nor do I care.
No. 2297302
>>2297283It's almost like yurifags and husbandofags could make their own content instead of lashing out at literally anyone else.
>>2297297>Why do you hate women with balloon tits??? You want me to look at pedo porn instead?? There is no in-between!!!
>>2297290Fujos don't want to make you consume anything, schizo. Do what you want but don't get mad when they don't like your objectively shitty tastes, especially when you insist on rubbing it in everyone's faces like you just did.
No. 2297322
File: 1733692004177.jpeg (Spoiler Image,61.13 KB, 600x847, 68ecd28e78ee5e62ac317be82fb48d…)
>>2297301>>2297302>>2297297something i noticed about anti-fujos is that they are very male brained and can't relate or empathize with women.
Like if you tell them about how women are depicted still sexualized in many female-made smuts then they accuse you of hating women or being against them.
it's like they can't understand why you as a woman would feel uncomfortable looking at something like picrel…very strange.
No. 2297336
>>2297308Again, why do you seethe at fujos if you don't want to make your own content? Maybe yurifags are just fucking lazy and would rather consume lolishit or media where the "lesbian women" are still cockhungry.
>>2297325Why do you want straight women to coom at close-ups of vaginas and tits?
No. 2297358
>>2297322>something i noticed about anti-fujos is that they are very male brainedImagine being accused of being male brained from a fujo lol. And I'm pretty sure anon wasn't referring to wherever the fuck you got that picture from. Funny how you equate large breasts with being sexual, kind of like a moid.
>>2297337No one even made that argument to begin with lol. I pointed out that your talking points were similar, not that fujos rape and kill people like moids. Really you all will just literally make shit up.
No. 2297360
File: 1733692703826.png (159.63 KB, 941x1750, 1733650667799.png)
>>2297004go back to reddit
No. 2297366
>>2297336this is it, this is the truth and the sole reason why yurifags seethe at fujos. They can make a million of different reasons for why they hate fujos but the truth is that they seethe at fujos for being organised and creating content especially one that is female-made. Yurifags are some the laziest most worthless entitled people, they barely create anything, they barely consume anything and when they do consume it's moidshit made by moids, they spent all their free time harassing fujos or begging hetero or fujo artists to create content for them.
>>2297343>us criticizing coomer hentai content made by moids
>you: so you want me to look at tumblresque porn?You all sound like such moids.
>>2297358> Funny how you equate large breasts with being sexual, kind of like a moid.oh shut the fuck up you bitches always pull the sjw card when it suits you, there is a difference between normal big breasts and that coomer hentai picture are YOU SERIOUSLY TRYING TO TELL ME THOSE ARE NORMAL LARGE BREASTS AND NOT FOR COOMERS? Bitch ive read normal stories with big breats i know the difference , don't gaslight.
No. 2297367
File: 1733692824434.webp (109.59 KB, 600x833, 81388_600.webp)
It's not like there isn't yuri drawn and created by fujos too.
What's wrong with pic related?
No. 2297390
>>2297380If you're talking about
>>2295471 then idk, I can understand getting a little aggravated, especially if they just swerve into drawing hentai for money.
No. 2297398
>>2297380many fujo artists who create hetero hentai content tend to make it seinen and for the male audience. Are you seriously saying that now we can't even criticize even seinen? You are such a cocksucking pickme. You may be yurifags but you keep sucking metaphorical cock.
>>2297389lol you can't even refute them because they are right, you know damn well what they meant.
>>2297394>m/f fansbe nice to us, i am defending you fujos.
No. 2297427
>>2297418anti-fujos keep using strawmans here all the fucking time and many times they can't even back up those strawmans and just say ''trust me bro its true'' but im not alllowed to give a example?
Do you want me to review every single hetero smut I've read this past year, will that be enough for you???
>>2297425kek they always feel so attacked, it must be the subconscious pedo guilt they have inside them they can't help bringing up their lolis or projecting on fujos.
No. 2297440
>>2297432we are talking about smut/sex/explicit works.
In that case we can bring up shounen ai too. Since yall only bring up 18+ bl content but defend your content by only using PG-13 works. We can do the same.
No. 2297450
>>2297439Even this got labelled as baloon tier
>>2297237 when it's clearly two adult women with normal proportions. Fujos have obvious double standards when it comes to women
No. 2297465
>>2297461yeah japanese doujinshis are terrible, i like the korean ones storywise but the smut is still lacking in those stories. It's hard for me to find a het korean smut that makes me go ''ooh yeah this is good shit''. The only ones i liked was that story with that woman who got married to three men or that story with that woman who had male maids.
So should i make a thread?
No. 2297497
hey fellow yumes i made a josei smut thread for anyone interested
>>>/m/439178(do not use that thread to attack yumes or infight)
No. 2298604
I read both BL and het but I have zero things in common with the spergs that have camped in this thread over the last couple of days, both sides are fighting strawmen, I miss the past threads where nonas actually presented their thoughts in a structured format and had more things to say than just calling each other pickmes, misogynists and coomers. Some of the newer nonnies talking today seem normal though, hoping for some productive discussions
>>2297502Exactly.
In the past threads I've seen mention of manga titles that do have a hetero relationship based on mutual respect, but the protags still got called a whore and a pickme etc over nitpicky reasons (being married to a man, being visible during sex scenes, blushing, having roughly C/D cup boobs etc). Better to simply ignore people like that whose mind is already made up from the start.
No. 2325214
>>2297529Some do, just not in the same why moids like. You know how often women use social manipulation and poison to get rid of people?
that's the closet you get to violence in a female power fantasy.
I personally like action scenes but I'm a weird
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